330 comments on “Open Thread V

  1. I was thinking of something a little more current…

    Like the one Min sent me yesterday for example.

    You know, where she called me an “ARSEHOLE” and the like…

  2. Which reminds me reb, can you shoot me across your new email address again?

    I’m restoring my new computer after an unfortunate crash and I fear that I might lose everything.

    That goes with everybody else if they don’t mind. I’m on my iPad and at least from there I’ll be able to transfer the addresses once I finish my repair work.

    I don’t have a good feeling about this. But what could possibly go wrong? The guy at Harvey Norman told me exactly what to do.

    Message to self: don’t buy another computer from Harvey Norman. They try to fob you off. It’s only because of my dogged yet polite persistence that I managed to get a wee bit of help. If I was there in person I would have shaken the bloke senseless.

  3. Oh, I get emails like that all the time from all sorts of people. But in my case they’re not true. :mrgreen:

    If I know Min, I’m sure she’ll forward an apology.

  4. How much worse could the last couple of days get?

    Computer crashing, broke my glasses, have a cold, and now the dog wipes it’s bum on the clean sheets.

  5. I like the way they do things in Europe. I Rome I picked up a wog (no pun intended) and I was able to go straight to the chemist and buy some antibiotics, bypassing a doctor.

    In Paris I discovered I had run out of my diabetes tablets. All I needed to do in order to get a prescription was produce a letter from my doctor confirming that I am prescribed to that medication. Too easy.

  6. Now for a favorite Cory Bernardi, did he get letter writing training from the Tea Party or is it a natural gift?

    “Senator strikes sour note with demand for Muslim denunciation

    THE Liberal senator accused of supporting a self-confessed Islamophobic Dutch politician had asked a Sydney Muslim to ”publicly denounce” fundamentalist Islam before he would correspond with him”

    http://www.canberratimes.com.au/news/national/national/general/senator-strikes-sour-note-with-demand-for-muslim-denunciation/2326151.aspx

  7. For the Qlders, Newman and the candidate for Cairns

    “Time LNP and Campbell Newman drew line on Cairns candidate Gavin King
    A further examination of King’s work as a journalist has produced the following examples.
    On Julia Gillard’s elevation to the Prime Ministership last year: “Men, one and all, it’s time to accept defeat. We are now, without any shadow of a doubt, the weaker sex.
    Despite our obvious physical superiority, women are actually far more powerful. Their secret weapon consists of just two little words.
    “When these chilling words are combined as one, they are capable of blasting any man into oblivion.
    “If they want to win an argument or get something done, all they have to do is say the words pre and menstrual.” (June 27, 2010)
    When asked if his piece on Gillard and menstruation was an attempt at humour or not, he said: “The single sentence from an 800-word article you’re referring to, like many of my opinion columns for The Cairns Post and Sunday Mail over the past six years, was satirical.”
    The LNP chose King as its representative for Cairns.
    Does Newman support the published views of his candidate, or does he not? Do the women of the LNP support these views, or do they not? Does the party, or does it not?”

    http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/opinion/time-lnp-drew-line-on-king/story-e6frerdf-1226168037510

    What a charmer.

  8. Looks as though the people of New England region are ready for the future, check out each of these articles
    ‘Finding new opportunities in carbon market
    The Armidale Business Chamber will host a special presentation on Tuesday evening on the topic of pricing carbon and its implications for the rural sector in Australia.’

    http://www.armidaleexpress.com.au/news/local/news/general/finding-new-opportunities-in-carbon-market/2325861.aspx

    ‘Wind power puts region in renewable energy box seat
    NATURAL advantages are making New England a significant part of the push to source 20 per cent of Australia’s energy from renewables by 2020.’

    ‘Where there’s been opposition to wind in NSW – and I’d be naive to say there hasn’t – it often has been from hobby farmers or small farmers,” Mr Cruickshank said.
    The huge commercial wind farm planned for Sapphire, between Glen Innes and Inverell, has negotiated with more than 20 landholders to take between 150 and 170 turbines.
    “Those turbines are all on large properties,” Mr Cruickshank said. “They can run their sheep and cattle without any difference, they get a good return, and there aren’t any neighbours who are affected.”
    The day-long seminar, which was organised by the Climate Institute, looked at what carbon pricing, carbon farming, energy efficiency and clean energy means for rural and regional Australia.’

    http://www.armidaleexpress.com.au/news/local/news/general/wind-power-puts-region-in-renewable-energy-box-seat/2325849.aspx

  9. Miglo
    Imagine if Barnaby decides to run for a seat in New England, he might find his ideas are a bit out dated. Now that could just shut him up.

  10. Reb, I can’t help wondering what you must have done to deserve Min’s email…..that’s not her style ……

  11. Sue 2 3.28pm,
    “Senator strikes sour note with demand for Muslim denunciation

    THE Liberal senator accused of supporting a self-confessed Islamophobic Dutch politician had asked a Sydney Muslim to ”publicly denounce” fundamentalist Islam before he would correspond with him”

    that’s rich coming from Bernardi, who is a fundamentalist Catholic isn’t he ??

  12. Sue @ 4.12pm,
    Despite our obvious physical superiority, women are actually far more powerful. Their secret weapon consists of just two little words.
    “When these chilling words are combined as one, they are capable of blasting any man into oblivion.
    “If they want to win an argument or get something done, all they have to do is say the words pre and menstrual.” (June 27, 2010)

    If he is so damn physically superior, let him have the next baby :mrgreen:

  13. “able to go straight to the chemist and buy some antibiotics, bypassing a doctor.”

    I like that to. I get sinus a lot and sometimes antibiotics are necessary. I find it silly visiting a doctor, whether I pay or not for a script I know he is gong to give me.

    What were the prices like.

  14. Sue, he has just came back from the states after visiting the TEA Party. I wonder did the taxpayer pay or was it a private visit.

  15. Gillard takes MPs to task over cabinet revelations October 18, 2011

    http://www.smh.com.au/national/gillard-takes-mps-to-task-over-cabinet-revelations-20111017-1ltfj.html

    THE Prime Minister, Julia Gillard, has told her cabinet colleagues to stop the leaks, suggesting it was an abuse of her gesture to abolish the Rudd-style cabinet meetings in which little debate was allowed.

    Ms Gillard, angry at revelations of details from two crisis meetings last week over asylum seeker policy, issued two public warnings to colleagues yesterday before cabinet met last night.

    ”I’ve rebuilt a proper cabinet system of government,” Ms Gillard said. This was a reference to the ”gang of four” system under Mr Rudd in which four main members made the important decisions and the other ministers were a rubber stamp.

    I would say to the leaker or leakers, just SHUT. UP. YOU’RE. NOT. HELPING.

  16. Cu, Rosalie was sooo impressive.
    I’m looking for an email from Amnesty and Rosalie, that I received back in August, about respect for the Aboriginal Homelands.
    Will post it soon. Sleep tight :smile:

  17. Pip, they did give an insight into how this government works. I found it reassuring.

    Options are made and placed before the cabinet and I believe the caucus. What is wrong with that. The PM then makes her decision after listening to their feedback.

    Also the fall back plan or plan B is clear. It is onshore processing without any increase in detention centres.

    There is to be a increase in community detention. The plan B is already being put in place

    Someone (Peter Lewis) said on Drum, what happens if the boat numbers continue to fall and people realise the cost falls dramatically. The answer is that the media will ensure the public does not know.

    The numbers have halved this year and are continuing to fall. This is in spite of all that has occurred over the last few weeks.

    I would like to know if the numbers entering Indonesia and Malaysia have also decreased. There also must be limited number who have the money to get on the boats. The longer they stay in those countries, I would assume the less savings they have.

    I would like to know if the numbers have lessened in those fleeing Sri Lanka and Afghan.

    We really need to be given facts and to debate the real problems, not the shit that we are now.

    We know for the last couple of decades the numbers flow and ebb without our governments doing nothing. Are we in a down turn swing.

    It is my belief that Mr. Howard was lucky to get away with low numbers for so long.

    Yes, Mr Rudd’s action might have led to an immediate increase, but as we got further away from the memory of sievX and with the frustration of being stranded in Indonesia, the boat trade would have increased anyway.

    There are two issues that should not be joined. There is the boat trade. There are asylum seekers who have the right to seek asylum.

    The asylum seeker should not be used as a tool to stop the boat trade.

    It is time that this issue is once treated by the politicians in a bipartisan manner.

    This is not an security issue and our borders are not at risk. No one enters this country unexposed.

  18. Cu, there is also the wet season to consider, which slows or stops the boats for a few months.

    There was a reason for the lull other than Howard’s Pacific solution, I’ll have a look for it later.

    The asylum seekers are pawns in a very ugly game and it should stop.

  19. Yes Pip but this was during the winter months. We are entering the wet season now.

    Just watching Bolt Report. They allege there are ten boats coming.

    Mr Abbott claims that the down turn was the result sinking off Christmas Island.

    I tend to agree with him. If this is true, the sinking of the sievx, nearly ten years ago, with a much greater loss of life must had a greater effect.

    It was said after the Christmas Island tragedy that many family members in this country begged their relations not to get on the boats,

    Gave up on Bolt quickly Could not stomach the lies.

    There have been many arrests lately in Indonesia, as people smuggling is now a crime in that country.

  20. Cu, I just had a look at the Insiders page and one of the topics was

    Half the numbers
    Despite the rhetoric from the Government and the Opposition, fewer asylum seekers are travelling to Australia.

    I haven’t been keeping up so more searches to do.

    i can’t stomach Bolt at all so I don’t know what he’s up to.

    I’m still lookin for the Howard stuff :smile:

  21. “AFTER half-a-century of repression and gross human rights abuses, it is appropriate to be ultra-cautious about claims the Burmese regime is finally showing signs of genuine change. There have been previous false dawns when hopes were raised that the ruling junta had seen the light, only for them to be dashed by the hardliners. ”

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/burma-inches-towards-freedom/story-e6frg71x-1226169110931

    With luck, if the reports are correct, this is also going to take pressure off the number wanting to come. We also need to have hope the Afghan situation is improving.

    As one former boat person said over the weekend, you stop the boat trade by stopping the war in their countries. He also said the choice is death in their country, life in Australia.

    Very simple explanation but in this case is the only one that counts.

  22. “so I don’t know what he’s up to.”

    Simple. lining his pockets.

    He wants to be the top right wing commentator in the country, like some similar prick in the USA. Cannot recall the name.

    Sorry for the language.

  23. Cu, there are many Burmese asylum seekers in Thailand but as far as I know they’re not exactly welcome to stay too long.
    I’lll have to lift my game and catch up with the news on the Amnesty website

  24. Who was the appalling Liberal senator interrogating Andrew Metcalfe so rudely in Senate Estimates today?

    I thought the Treasurer did well on Lateline tonight. I think he has Ali Moore’s measure and enjoyed himself.

  25. Hats off to the Treasurer for his forbearance in the face of the many rude interruptions and assumptions placed in his way while he’s trying to talk.
    He certainly has Ali Moore’s number.

  26. Given all the attempted censure motions put forward by Tony Abbott lately I just thought I’d throw this in.

    Wednesday, 5 February, 2003, 10:22 GMT
    Australian PM censured over Iraq

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/2727551.stm

    The Australian Senate has passed an historic no-confidence motion against the prime minister over his handling of the crisis in Iraq.
    John Howard and his conservative Liberal/National coalition were censured for deploying troops to the Gulf ahead of a possible war.

    Opposition and minor parties joined forces to pass the motion against Mr Howard by 33 to 31 votes.

    The vote has no legislative clout, but is considered an important symbolic gesture as it is the Senate’s first vote of no-confidence in a serving leader in its 102-year history.

  27. CU @1.42am “There are two issues that should not be joined. There is the boat trade. There are asylum seekers who have the right to seek asylum.

    The asylum seeker should not be used as a tool to stop the boat trade.”

    Exactly and precisely. This is just an impression I get about people who supported Howard’s Pacific Solution and who are now supporting Abbott’s Turn Back the Boats, that they can perceive nothing wrong in using people who are in the vast majority genuine refugees “to send a message to” people smugglers.

  28. Pip, I think it is mostly Burmese that were due to come under the Malaysia Solution. They have been in the country waiting for over ten years.

  29. Min, the PM said much the same when she announced they were going ahead with onshore processing.

    Pip, thanks for the information. I do believe we need to stick to facts.

  30. Pip and CU, here is some information:

    THE 4000 refugees likely to come to Australia under the Malaysian solution are Burmese, the majority of them Christians.

    There are 93,000 asylum-seekers and proven refugees in Malaysia, most of them living in the Klang Valley in and around the capital Kuala Lumpur.

    They are not being held in camps, but are living in poor, largely rented, accommodation “in the community” while they await either assessment by the UN High Commissioner for Refugees or, if already assessed as refugees, await placement in another country.

    http://thesail.wordpress.com/2011/05/12/likely-malay-plan-refugees-are-christian-burmese-and-already-assessed/

  31. “I think it is mostly Burmese that were due to come under the Malaysia Solution. They have been in the country waiting for over ten years.

    And every boat person that comes to Australia means one less person from camps that can come.

  32. What happened to the love and confidence this young coutry once had?

    “If the catch cry of the 60s was “all you need is love” it seems the slogan of the 21st century is “all you need is hate”..

    …..We are seeing death threats to climate scientists, a resurgence of shock jocks on the radio, Facebook groups set up with the sole purpose of “hating” reality TV contestants or celebrities. Add that to a political culture characterised by hyperbole, derision and negativity.

    Road rage was an unknown term in Australia 20 years ago, now it is commonplace and has spawned all manner of similar rages. Are we developing a civic culture where hate is commonplace, where we play the man not the ball?

    The debate on climate change and the carbon tax has probably been the most heated I can remember. A carbon tax is the biggest change to our economy since the GST, but the level of anger around the debate has been far higher.

    Over the past few weeks we have seen the Prime Minister referred to as a “witch”, a “scrag” and other epithets, as protests around the introduction of the tax generate more heat than light….”

    http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/Hate-is-the-new-debate/

    .

  33. “And every boat person that comes to Australia means one less person from camps that can come.”

    Neil, I am surprised that you support the Malaysian Solution. This is ther only option that this is likely to happen.

  34. “…The one opportunity Labor has to peg back the carnage is to focus the minds of voters on the type of government Abbott will lead. To this day it remains something of a mystery. For this reason the election result will be significantly closer than the bloodbath currently being forecast by every major polling firm…”

    http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/government-that-lost-its-way-opposition-that-cannot-lose/

    Mr. Pernberthy is correct about one thing. It is mystery what type of government will lead. I believe it is a mystery even to Mr. Abbott.

    Don’t agree with him about much else.

    “…The most likely scenario then is that Tony Abbott will be the next prime minister of Australia. The surge in the Coalition’s primary vote has not corresponded with soaring personal approval ratings for Tony Abbott. To this end Labor may have succeeded in painting Abbott as a blocker and a wrecker, but it has still not done nearly enough to stop him from leading the Coalition to an easy victory. Its failure to do so reflects the fact that many figures in the ALP have long misread Abbott, transferring their own distaste for the man onto a community which is significantly less troubled with his social conservatism, and was happy to be governed by the equally conservative John Howard for 11 years….”

    http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/government-that-lost-its-way-opposition-that-cannot-lose/

    I wonder in the long run will it be only Labor voters who have distaste for the man. There does not appear to apparent support for the man, even in his own party. You see very few othe Liberal MP’s in his vicinity except for the likes of Pyne and Mirabella.

    Where are the moderates giving him praise.

  35. CU, plus how can one categorise refugees? Which ones are the most ‘deserving’..in camps or arriving by a SIEV. There was one gentleman, a university professor who was incarcerated due to his anti-government pro-democracy stance and while incarcerated lost an eye and a part of a leg..he arrived by boat.

  36. ““If the catch cry of the 60s was “all you need is love”

    It is a pity that it is the remnants of those who preached love in the sixties, that have fell in behind Mr. Abbott.

    A sad time indeed for Australia. The flower people have lost their way.

  37. Min, I do not believe we can. There is only one category, people who flee their country in fear of their life or wellbeing.

    Mr. Ruddoch tried to do this when he decided that those in Africa were more worthy.

    He said at the time, but it never got much press, that we had to stop the boats, because if we did not, we could not take any from the African continent.

    Maybe we should be guided by the dictum that we are responsible for those in our region.

    It is true there is a limit to the assistance that we can give.

    We should also remember that the countries they manage to get to in this region are just coping to look after their won populations.

    We have the room, we have the money and we need people and skills. We have no excuse not to take in those in need.

  38. “Don’t bother with the follow-up question. You’ll get the same response. Gillard is the story.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/abbott-singing-a-song-of-a-different-timbre-20111017-1ltc2.html#ixzz1b4kmcdDi

    I disagree with the Opposition Leader. Gillard is not the story. Australia is the story.

    I noticed, no gloves. He is definitely going to have sore hands, as they are not used to hard labour.

    They say he bangs the nails in with great (anger) gusto. I wonder how many bent nails he is leaving behind.

  39. “The indigenous people who hosted the Abbotts were surprised he kept building when the camera went off.”

    That suggests he was not hammering before the camersa came on?

  40. CU
    have a read of politically homeless, a much better summation of last weeks political events and Abbott’s chances then what you read on the punch.

  41. “Hockey pledges to revoke energy fund loans”

    ………..THE Coalition is warning investors in renewable energy not to count on money from the government’s proposed $10 billion clean energy finance corporation, which it would abolish.

    The shadow treasurer, Joe Hockey, said the Coalition would disband the corporation and, wherever legally possible, reverse any funding commitments it had entered into before the election.

    He called on the Auditor-General to investigate the government’s plan not to include the corporation in the budget on the basis that it would be earning commercial returns. Mr Hockey said he did not believe it would be run commercially and that it was a vehicle to hide a $10 billion budget blowout.

    ”We would bring the entire program on budget, then we would repeal whatever had not been committed. If there were legal obligations we would meet them but it would depend on the structure of any loans the fund had made … an at-call loan, for example, is revocable at any time,” he said.

    ”We are warning people this is one of the things we will be repealing. They should not apply to or count on this entity for funding.”

    For months the Coalition leader, Tony Abbott, has been warning businesses against buying forward-dated pollution permits under the carbon scheme, saying he does not believe a Coalition government would be required to pay compensation…”

    http://theland.farmonline.com.au/news/nationalrural/agribusiness-and-general/finance/hockey-pledges-to-revoke-energy-fund-loans/2327038.aspx?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter

    Is Mr. Hockey and Mr. Abbott , telling business that they cannot do any business in the next four or five years.

    I wonder how business, especially big business is going to react to these threats. That is what they are.

    I wonder how businesses are going to explain to their shareholders that they do not take actions that will increase the income.

    Does Mr. Abbott really believe that business will fall into line.

  42. Reb, I can’t help wondering what you must have done to deserve Min’s email…..that’s not her style ……

    Something “I’ve done?”

    To “deserve” her email??

    Oh, I get it. It’s all my fault…

    Honestly… :roll:

  43. Sue, I agree with the article.

    http://andrewelder.blogspot.com/

    Mr. Abbott expected the PM come to him on bended knees, saying she has to accept Nauru.

    Mr. Abbott does not seem to comprehend that Nauru is past it’s used by date, if it ever was a solution.

    Mr. Abbott seems unable to see that there is a difference between Nauru and Malaysia.

    Nauru is where you dump people indefinitely, before letting them into Australia. This is done at great expense. The boats will keep coming according to the experts.

    Malaysia Solution is saying that Australia is only receiving people who come via Malaysia. All that come by boat will be sent onto Malaysia to be processed and go to the end of their queue.

    There is a great possibility that this will work.

    There is much made of concern for the children who come unaccompanied. I am sure there can be found a solution to this problem. Most are nearly adults anyway. Maybe we could put them in schools here or Malaysia until they are old enough to be treated as adults.

    Mr. Abbott also fails to see that turning the boats around is no longer seen as an viable option. It is unlikely that the reintroduction of temporary visa would stop boats but would indeed make the refugees lives much harder. Do they deserve this.

    Those who do not want to end up in Malaysia, have the choice not to get on the boats.

    The reality is that we have an solution that most thinking Australians are happy with.

    This is something else that Mr. Abbott does not understand or accept, the political climate has changed to allow onshore processing.

    It is the legal and humane way to treat people.

  44. The article says that Mr. Abbott’s daughter was handy with a hammer, that was when he did not keep taking it out of her hands.

    I wonder if the daughter learnt the skill of using a hammer, filling in for her father when he was not home.

    Someone had to do the emergency jobs that always need doing around a home.

  45. Catching up,
    Then Abbott came clean and said that even if Gillard had accepted his Nauru solution that he would have knocked it back anyway unless he could also get his turn back the boats written into policy as well as the reinstatement of TPVs.

  46. Anthony, I suspect he would have agreed.

    He would see it as having her on the ropes.

    The only reason he would not, is that he knows it will not work and does not want to risk having Nauru tested.

  47. Catching up,
    I think that we all know that whatever Gillard had offered Tony Abbott that it wouldn’t have been good enough. The reinstatement of TPVs would have been completely unacceptable to the government anyway and Abbott knew it.

  48. AntonyG
    the point is Gillard is saying just forget Abbott he has one tune Nooooooooooooooooooo

    When he first said Nauru, he didn’t mention the next bits, now he has added more detail, but it is not finished. Imagine what he would ask for the unaccompanied minors who cannot be removed from Australia. Well actually I cannot imagine that, after all he supported Morrison who objected to a minor being flown to Sydney for his parents funeral.

    So I presume all of this was probably discussed at the Cabinet meeting. The PM and the government is moving along on the issue and no doubt Australia and some of the press will catch up, but not the Oz, never the Oz.

  49. Reb, honestly ??
    No-one would send an email calling another person an “a…….” for no reason.

    I was simply wondering.

  50. I think it was just a misunderstanding, and possibly an over-reaction..

    But anyway, it’s all in the past now, so I’m happy to move on…

  51. So Abbott was widely criticised/dismissed as being “unelectable”. He was seen as poison.

    But other facts are – Julia has –
    • screwed up so badly,
    • proved to be such a pathetic Prime Minister,
    • breached the trust of the electorate so deeply
    that Abbott is entirely likely to become Prime Minister.

    Remarkable certainly, but the electoral debacle that has put Abbott in this position is entirely of the government’s making.

  52. Jane
    what is happening to Anna Nicole Mirabella, it all seems a bit quiet.
    As the elderly Prince will soon be visiting, Australia, i was wondering whether if you know any terror alerts have been issued. You know the ones “Be aware not afraid”

  53. Tweet from virginia Trioli about organ donation, and the ABC’s brilliant PM host Mark Colvin who has to have dialysis.

    LaTrioli Virginia Trioli

    And join my dear friend @Colvinius on SBS Insight tonight at 7.30pm discussing organ donation; why won’t we donate?
    @KRuddMP there too.

  54. OMG , Bloody Costello, no wonder he is the only one who thinks he is the world’s best treasurer.
    He is on the board of the Future fund and look where he our investments

    “Future Fund officials told a Senate committee hearing in Canberra that the $75 billion fund, created to finance public service superannuation liabilities, currently held $178 million of debt and $315 million in shares across Greece, Ireland, Portugal, Spain and Italy.

    But its exposure to listed equities throughout Europe was far higher at $2.8 billion.”

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/the-future-funds-exposure-to-the-tumultuous-euro-zone-has-been-revealed-in-senate-estimates/story-fn59niix-1226169816538

    When Costello set up the Future Fund he said he wanted to lock it away so that the Labor party could not get their hands on it but really I would prefer investing in Australia rather than losing in Europe!!!!!!

  55. Would have been better to make investments in our infrastructure such as the Internet, rail and ports.

    Sorry, it is only the Libs that know how to manage money.

    Investments are wonderful when everything is going OK. They can disappear quickly when things go bad, disappearing altogether.

    It is a shame that the likes of Mr. Costello do not have faith in their own country.

    It is hard to lose roads etc.

    Who was the clever person that gave Mr. Costello the job. It is a shame that he did not have to front the Senate Hearings.

  56. That clever person was Rudd, and was another reason why Rudd lost the confidence of the caucus. He gave too many jobs to Libs.

  57. Hi all. Just letting you know in advance that I’ll be out of action for a couple of weeks. This virus has flared up my lupus so I’ll be needing total rest. Damn it annoys me.

  58. “Federal Police Commissioner Tony Negus has ordered an investigation into how a secret police document ended up with Liberal Senator George Brandis.

    Mr Negus says the release of the internal police document could put officers’ lives at risk.

    Senator Brandis quoted the document – a secret police minute about cuts to air security officers – during a Senate estimates hearing.

    He wanted to make it public by tabling it but subsequently agreed not to because the police argued it would reveal too much about operational matters.

    Mr Negus says he wants to find out how it was leaked.

    “I have also instructed immediately that our professional standards area look at how this document was released from the AFP and ended up where it is now,” he said.

    “So there will be an investigation in regards to that, because again the release of documents to this classification which detail operational activity puts my own officers’ lives at stake.”

    Senator Brandis says the document reveals cuts to the air marshals program that were otherwise not spelled out in the AFP’s budget papers.”

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-10-18/probe-into-leaked-police-document/3577318

  59. Min, I will pay that one. You could not have done better. Problem is that no one knows what we are talking about.

    Brandis once more blurring the boundaries.

  60. This virus has flared up my lupus

    Not the same one responsible for the computer issues you have been having I hope Migs

    Hope you make a swift recovery.

  61. I do apologise…

    Reb, believe me, that does not worry me. I have endured must more than being called a disgrace. I am sometimes.

    It was being called middle class that got up my nose. Cannot tolerate many of them, especially if they are would be if could be’s. The bread and butter toffs my mother used to call them.

    I do hope you are genuine. I am glad you also apologise to Min. She was hurt.

    I was not angry with you, just frustrated. I did not set out to hurt you.

    I just wanted you to see we generally agree.

    Do you know vox pop?. I truly hope you say no.

    I do believe it is time that Migs has some peace. I think it is time we all did. Migs should earn our respect. He is a very fair person.

    I hate seeing threads going awry. After all that is what it is about, a exchange of ideas.

    Apology accepted and given.

  62. Suck it up sunshine, your supporters don’t want the NBN

    The announcement sparked immediate controversy, with the Coalition claiming rollout sites were skewed in favour of marginal seats Labor hopes to win or retain at the next election.

    And the Baillieu government had its own gripe, saying Victoria was not receiving its fair share of the initial rollout.

    Of the 60 NBN sites, 36 are in Labor-held seats, 21 are in Coalition seats, two are in seats held by independents and one is in the seat of Melbourne, held by the Greens’ Adam Bandt.

    Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/national/nbn-rollout-favours-labor-seats-20111018-1lz0g.html#ixzz1bAeDUZav

    By my humble analysis there are 21 sites that could be changed.

  63. “The announcement sparked immediate controversy, with the Coalition claiming rollout sites were skewed in favour of marginal seats Labor hopes to win or retain at the next election”

    It is really amiss of NBNCo that they begin in areas that have the most need. Why, they even target areas that have high unemployment.

    Don’t NBNCo know that the place to begin is in the leafy suburbs of Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane. They are more deserving.

    It makes me laugh, when the Liberals complain about schemes that are intended to meet the needs of the poor, are spent in Labor seats. How many Liberal seats would qualify?

  64. One paper tells the truth today
    No matter what the others have to say.
    You know, about the PM being dead,
    Politically I mean. How often has that been said!

    But here she is alive and well,
    And with plenty of good news to tell.
    This picture says it all dear reader.
    We couldn’t have a better leader.

    While leakers and gossip writers go to town,
    Character assassins bring her down,
    And Abbott does his stunts and struts,
    She keeps going. Yes! Gillard has guts!

  65. What is the Opposition worrying about.

    I thought they said the scheme is unpopular and would not work.

    I thought the problem is that the scheme is inferior.

    How do they then explain that Labor gains by rolling out in their seats.

  66. “Telstra warns off Coalition

    TELSTRA has indicated it would expect a multi-billion-dollar payment to break up its fixed-line monopoly under a Coalition government, after shareholders yesterday approved the $11 billion deal to participate in Labor’s high-speed National Broadband Network…”

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/telstra-warns-off-coalition/story-fn59niix-1226170102456

    Yes, Mr. Abbott sure has the business world shaking in their boots at his threats.

  67. “……………..TONY Abbott is falling into a trap of his own rhetoric on the repeal of the carbon tax.

    The Opposition Leader is in danger of creating long-term investment uncertainty for power generators, defying the “law of the land” and the democratic processes of parliament and making a blood oath he can’t keep.

    The Coalition is bleeding on this issue and quickly needs to better explain its policy position.

    Julia Gillard, Wayne Swan and even the Greens are scoring off Abbott’s inability to deal quickly and cleanly with the mechanics of rolling back the now inevitable carbon tax and appearing like a government-in-exile rather than an opposition. Abbott has proved to be an incredibly effective political opponent to Gillard, capable of delivering simple, direct and appealing public messages which exploit the Prime Minister’s biggest weakness.

    Start of sidebar. Skip to end of sidebar.
    End of sidebar. Return to start of sidebar.
    Abbott’s slogan on the carbon tax is black and white: “We will oppose the tax in opposition and rescind it in government”.

    But now that his opposition to the tax has failed to stop it eventually becoming law because of support for the carbon tax from the independents and Greens, Abbott’s slogan needs adjustment or he will damage the Coalition now and his leadership should he become prime minister……………

    ……….Given the pitfalls in Kim Beazley’s GST rollback campaign, Abbott has to move quickly to head off a perception that he can’t do what he promises and in the meantime is contributing to dreaded electricity price rises…………….”

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/opinion/tony-abbott-slogan-needs-a-tweak/story-e6frgd0x-1226170099232

    Mr. Abbott’s problem is that he cannot do what he promises.

    Mr. Abbott will find it difficult to find new three words slogans to get his message across.

    It is the message that is the problem.

    He cannot repeal all that Labor has achieved without offering economic uncertainty and instability.
    He cannot undo what has been done without great cost to the nation.

    Mr. Abbott faces the prospect that from now on, people will begin to ask him what he means. Slogans, new and old are useless when this happens.

    I believe he is bull shit artist The public will come to treat him like the treat all of his kind..

  68. Reb, I cannot wait to watch him. I am sure he has much to offer. I do not know what, but there much be something he is an authority. I can think of one thing, but I better keep it to myself.

  69. A site worth visiting if you are interested in the history of how we vote in this coutry.

    “……….The Political Impact of Optional Preferential Voting
    The introduction of preferential voting in Australia at both state and federal level was largely a consequence of the early entry into politics of organised labour.

    The Labor Party may have been a new party when it first contested elections in the 1890s, but it had the advantage of having a mass based membership and internal candidate selection procedures that ensured only one Labor candidate would nominated in each single member electorates.

    Candidate selection procedures may be a normal part of politics today, but they were something of an anathema to nineteenth century colonial politicians who grew up in era before political parties. The development of the non-Labor parties after 1890 is a story of conflict between the need to organise as a party with non-parliamentary membership and candidate selection procedures, and the continuation of an older view that the voters should be left with the choice between available candidates, not the members of a political party.

    After preferential voting was introduced, some in the Labor Party viewed it as a conspiracy to prevent Labor winning elections. It is why moves away from full preferential voting have always taken place under Labor governments, back to first past the post in Queensland in 1942 (reversed by a Coalition government in 1962), and the introduction of optional preferential voting in NSW in 1980 and Queensland in 1992. (The 1992 change came about under a Labor government but on the recommendation of an external enquiry.)

    Yet the irony is that today it is the Labor Party that relies more on preferential voting than the Coalition to win elections. If you look at the record of optional preferential voting in NSW and Queensland compared to Commonwealth elections since 1990, it is the Labor Party that would now be disadvantaged by any move away from full preferential voting.

    The historical record reveals that preferential voting was introduced not so much to disadvantage Labor, but rather to allow the electoral system to avoid the non-Labor parties having to adopt rigid candidate selection procedures. As political scientist Joan Rydon described the history in 1956…………”

    http://blogs.abc.net.au/antonygreen/2011/10/the-political-impact-of-optional-preferential-voting.html

  70. “but there much be something he is an authority. ”

    Alan Jones was one of our most successful Rugby Union coaches.

  71. Just some news on the NBN in the regions

    “PRELIMINARY work is almost finished on the first stage of the first section of Coffs Harbour to be connected to the National Broadband Network and this week Sawtell was added to the list of towns to be connected to the NBN in the next 12 months”

    Comments on this story
    so despite the best work of our local mp haartsuyker we will have this ! this will be a very good thing for coffs its a shame they couldn’t put it in to areas where there is very poor service 1st

    It’s good to see the Government Is looking after a seat It cannot ever win .
    Thanks to the Independents we are getting a Fair Go Thanks Mr Oakshot.

    I can still hear the opposition scream that the Government is favouring their Labor/Independent supporters. Hopefully this will be welcomed by our, frequently ejected from parliament, local member. This will be a game changer in allowing rural and regional Australians to be able to compete with our largest cities. Despite the cost ( still high at around $40 Billion) being spread over 7-10 years, it is not a major drain on the budget. All we need now is the realisation that in the 21st century high speed information transfer will be critical. One wonders if the current opposition would have supported the introduction of the railway or the telephone in the 19th Century. This may even drive the carbon tax and asylum seekers off the front pages. Our education and health officials are now realising the potential this technology promised will soon be a reality in Coffs Harbour.

    http://www.coffscoastadvocate.com.au/story/2011/10/19/coffs-nbn-hot-spot-national-broadband-network/

  72. Re the Queen arriving

    News ltd angle, All shook up: Julia Gillard messes up royal reception

    Fairfax, it was ladies’ day: the Queen, the Governor-General, the Prime Minister, the Chief Minister of the ACT.

  73. Just a quick note to all the conservative voters out there, the market has delivered it’s verdict on the NBN.

    Telstra shares have risen to their highest point in 14 months (most other shares going in the other direction) after their decision to accept the government’s NBN proposal.

    Another expert opinion saying that the NBN will be cheaper than ADSL.

    We are indeed fortunate to have a Labor government who can get past the bullshit and introduce a truly significant change – it would NEVER have happened under a Liberal government who struggled for 10 years to achieve nothing.

    I note the Liberals have gone a bit quiet on their threats to dig up the cable.

  74. And in my opinion, fair enough from Gillard. I would be going with the same..mind you I can do a rather nice curtsey courtesy of 13 years of classical ballet training.

    Prime Minister Julia Gillard says she was not breaking with royal protocol when she ditched the curtsy in favour of a small bow to greet the Queen on her arrival in Australia yesterday.

    Ms Gillard said today she did not even consider curtsying when the royal plane touched down in Canberra last night because “it’s just not me”.

    http://www.smh.com.au/national/no-backing-down-for-gillard-in-royal-bow-row-20111020-1m90i.html#ixzz1bHeSADOk

  75. Tony Abbott is now saying it should be “an option to turn the boats around”.

    That would require an agreement with the Indonesian government, and given Abbott’s not inot negotiation or consensus I don’t like his chances.

  76. Min, I posted these on Media Watch X

    Tweets about the curtsy

    DameEtcetera EtceteraEtceteraEtc by geeksrulz@
    @geeksrulz @sunili @JuliaGillard

    What a lot of rot !!! Read the British Monarchy web site…curtsey not required….even protocol says so

    and
    GreenJ Jonathan Green

    despite the mcmahon rumours RT @CatherineDeveny: No Australian Prime Minister has ever curtsied to the Queen

  77. Alan Jones turns up the heat on fracking

    http://www.crikey.com.au/2011/10/20/occupy-jonestown-alan-turns-up-the-heat-on-fracking/

    Alan Jones’s ongoing campaign on coal seam gas — his Press Club speech yesterday was more or less a reheat of his extended railing on the issue on his radio program — has produced more than just the unusual sight of a Greens-Jones unity ticket. One suspects, though, the Greens would have found Jones’ complaint that fracking EISs lacked “peer review” ironic, since Jones generally prefers his climate science to have no peer review of any kind.

    I couldn’t bring myself to watch the great man at the National Press Club, but according to the Tweets, he didn’t stop speaking at the 30 minute mark to allow for questions !!

    The mining industry has been slow to react (too gorged on profits, perhaps?) and has done little to counter Jones’s and the Greens’s campaigns. This morning the PR company Media Manoeuvres used Jones’s Press Club address to tout for business with mining companies via email, referring to Jones’s “emotive attack on the Australian coal mining industry” that was “remarkable and damaging”:

  78. What is it with middle-aged white men still looking for reds under the beds.

    Julia Gillard’s great leap backwards to the trashy 1970s

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/opinion/gillards-great-leap-backwards-to-the-trashy-1970s/story-e6frgd0x-1226171067564

    PERHAPS no decade saw more wretched national government in Australia than the 1970s. We started with Billy McMahon, manifestly not up to the job, who presided over the last, worst years of Coalition rule. Then came the economic catastrophe of the Whitlam government. It is the fashion these days to be nice to Gough, and it is a good fashion. But his government was an economic disaster. Unemployment skyrocketed, industry was crippled, inflation went out of control.</i.

    It must be so easy writing crap whan one doesn't bother with historical facts.

    Boyer Lectures

    Lecture 2: From Golden Age to Stagflation

    For the world’s developed economies, the end of the second world war was the trigger for almost 30 years of sustained growth. Ian Macfarlane says the Keynesian system of economic management had served policy-makers well, but asks had Keynesian policies been pushed too far, beyond their natural limits? Inflation began to rise in all countries in the late 1960s and early 1970s. When the first
    OPEC oil shock occurred it would bring the post-war boom to a sudden close, and give rise to a new condition—stagflation.

    It must have been a slow day for Mr. Sheridan, you’d imagine he would have had time to reflect on what was actually going on in the wider world back in the 70s.

    Or, maybe he takes his ideas from the Institute of Public Affairs.

  79. I see ltdnews is continuing to attack the PM over her ‘alleged’ breach of protocol about not curtsying. (Which it now appears is wrong anyway) Now they have a little girl ‘outclassing’ her FFS

    The unhinging is truly pathetic. Put the lot behind a paywall NOW()

  80. I read somewhere over the last couple of days that Tony Abbott wants to have income management introduced into the Aboriginal communities in the north west of South Australia.

    I would imagine he wants this introduced so the Aborigines don’t waste their money on alcohol or gambling.

    YET – and I say that with a big yet – he is opposed to the limits that are going to be placed on pokie machine losses.

    This is hypocracy at a breathtaking level. He wants income controlled on one hand so people can’t gamble all their money away, but he wants people to lose as much income as possible in their local RSL club.

    I’m not sure I understand his logic.

  81. Roswell, is there any proof of this? That is, that is the way that Aboriginal communities spend their money…I would have thought that having to pay $7.00 for a punnet of strawberries might have something to do with the way the communities spend their money.

  82. SA Premier Mike Rann leaves Office today after leading Labor for 17 years and winning four elections, the last when he was up against the ugliest smear campign I’ve ever seen.

    Tweet from Kevin Rudd MP

    QldPoliticians Qld Politicians
    KEVIN RUDD PM: KRuddMP:

    Mike has been attacked relentlessly in office. History will be kind to him.
    KRudd: KRudd… http://bit.ly/ncm0h3

    and
    KRuddMP
    Kevin Rudd

    Mike Rann leaves the office of Premier of South Australia today with a first class record of achievement for the state. KRudd

    9News reports:-

    The premier has always been open to policy ideas and industry consultation, and he has a genuine understanding of the state’s manufacturers, Ai Group chief executive Heather Ridout says.

    “Premier Rann presided over and actively shaped the important transformation of the South Australian economy, and the State today has a much broader and diverse industry base than when he first became Premier in 2002,” she said in a statement.

    As a parting gesture Premier Rann has announced this:-

    Expression of Interest Open for the Design and Implementation of Community Solar Farms

    http://www.renewablessa.sa.gov.au/news/expression-of-interests-open-for-community-solar-farms

    Rann signs off with a clean vision

    http://www.climatespectator.com.au/commentary/rann-signs-clean-vision#.Tp-WK-7HTqc.twitter

    South Australian Premier Mike Rann, the driving force behind the most ambitious clean energy targets in the country, has marked his last days in the job by making an even greater commitment to the deployment of green energy in the state.

    Rann, who steps down on Thursday, released a strategy paper on Wednesday that underlines the state’s commitment to a 33 per cent renewable energy target by 2020, introduces measures that seek to protect wind farm development, and canvasses other proposals that will effectively block the construction of any new coal fired plants in the state.

    The last article is by Michael Owen who wrote countless repetitive articles about the Chantelois affair before the State election, loyally doing his duty for the Liberal Party. Unfortunately, it didn’t go in his favour; Labor won in spite of news ltd’s best efforts.
    Thankfully, Chantelois barely rated a mention and she hasn’t been heard of since !

    National Affairs
    South Australian Premier Mike Rann enjoys his final day in office

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/south-australian-premier-mike-rann-enjoys-his-final-day-in-office/story-fn59niix-1226171783010

    Good luck for the future Mike.

  83. Umm, what was that again..ok..Tony Abbott wants income management so that Aboriginal communites (and there are heaps of Casinos in those places) cannot waste their money gambling, but everywhere else can waste their money gambling.

  84. Excellent note Pip. I knew Mike Rann on occasions from when I was Victorian local government rep on the EPA..that would have been in about ’90 when I was part of a delegation to SA, part of Mike Rann’s employment portfolio.

  85. Nothing interests me more than the unexplained. This is one of them.

    Last night in a dream I came across a young lady who had been assaulted. I helped her to her feet and asked some passers-by to call the police. I then left the scene and walked home.

    Shortly after arriving home there was a knock on the door. It was a police officer who I calmly let in, however I was disturbed to notice a large number of other officers standing on the footpath.

    I talked to the officer about the incident (although I had no idea how he found out where I lived) and he asked me to sign a statement, and he handed me a pen and a writing board.

    Within a second of taking the objects off him, he advised that he has my finger prints and he’d need to compare them with prints found on the assaulted lady.

    Now here’s my problem. If it was my dream then how come I didn’t know what the policeman was thinking? How can a dreamt up character have the ability to think, without me knowing? How can a person who is dreaming be outwitted by someone he is dreaming about?

    I had a similar puzzle some years ago when I couldn’t remember the name of a movie in a dream, and someone else in the dream thought of it. But again it was my dream.

    Does the mind have more than one dimension?

  86. News Ltd pay wall proposal – not very confident to try “freemium” approach:

    Freemium defined as

    Give your service away for free, possibly ad supported but maybe not, acquire a lot of customers very efficiently through word of mouth, referral networks, organic search marketing, etc., then offer premium priced value added services or an enhanced version of your service to your customer base.

    Suppose you gave a pay wall and nobody came?

  87. Millions ‘face environment hazards’

    http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-world/millions-face-environment-hazards-20111020-1m9ge.html

    Millions of people will be “trapped” in areas at increasing risk from environmental hazards, such as flooding, around the world, a report into future migration warned on Thursday.

    And millions will move into places which are more vulnerable to the impacts of environmental changes brought on by global warming and pressure on resources, such as low-lying cities, the study by 300 experts from 30 countries said.

    The Foresight report into environmental change and migration over the next 50 years said the focus had previously been on those who would leave areas affected by floods, droughts and extreme weather –
    often termed ‘climate refugees’.

  88. Twitter

    DavidW2035 DavidW2035 by davidbewart

    Big Oil & Big Tobacco lethally simple playbook; Raise scepticism, insist findings are “unsettled”. Repeat. Ignore latest research
    #carbontax

  89. Get moving on carbon opportunities: Oakeshott

    http://sl.farmonline.com.au/news/nationalrural/agribusiness-and-general/political/get-moving-on-carbon-opportunities-oakeshott/2327946.aspx

    FARMERS and land sector managers should look into early funding opportunities from the government’s carbon tax package, says Independent MP Rob Oakeshott.

    The tax, which is expected to pass through the Senate next month with the Green’s support and be implemented from July 1, 2012, offers a range of opportunities for agriculture within the scheme beyond the Carbon Farming Initiative, Mr Oakeshott said.

    Prime Minister Julia Gillard confirmed that some of the scheme’s associated grant programs, particularly the food-processing program and the biodiversity fund, would be rapidly released.

    She said $1.2 billion was available to directly help improve energy efficiency and reduce carbon pollution in manufacturing industries.

  90. Pip
    thanks for the story from Lithgow, it is stories like this that show the govt is getting on with the job of governing for the nation. another example of infrastructure spending, something Howard refused to address.
    And this is the important bit for Sydneysiders

    ““It will allow coal to be easily transported to Port Kembla, and not just the coal but all freight from the west.

    “This also comes as the government is talking about closing Darling Harbour as a working port, meaning the only other option would be Port Botany.

    “It will be far better for everyone if the coal can be taken straight to Port Kembla rather than through the city to Port Botany.”

    No wonder the PM pulls in an audience when she has the community cabinets.

    So this week cheers for rail in Lithgow, NBN in the Illawarra and 59 other places.

  91. Sue, No wonder the PM pulls in an audience when she has the community cabinets.
    I watched the community cabinet in Tasmania and if all the other meetings are as effective as that the government will be well pleased.

    The PM was howled down without a seconds thought when she said she would consult with the public by holding a Citizens Assemby, which was used in Canada to decide electoral changes.

    So while the msm and the Abbott wrecking ball are blowing hot air, the government is getting on with the business of governing.

    Howard and Costello didn’t care about building ports infrastructure at a time when dozens of ships were queued waiting to load coal. The middle-class tax cuts and the surplus were their only concerns.

  92. COALITION LASHES CARBON CRITICS

    http://www.theage.com.au/national/coalition-lashes-carbon-critics-20111020-1madf.html

    THE federal opposition has launched a fierce attack on the renewable energy sector, accusing its ”vested interests” of opposing the Coalition’s climate policy because they want to profit from Labor’s $10 billion clean energy fund.

    Opposition finance spokesman Andrew Robb told The Age that the Gillard government’s proposed $10 billion Clean Energy Finance Corporation – which will help finance green investment – would be ”a honeypot to every white-shoe salesman imaginable”

    His comments follow complaints from the energy sector – including from big firms involved in renewable energy such as AGL and Pacific Hydro – that the Coalition’s vow to scrap the carbon tax was creating uncertainty and sending a bad signal to investors.

    The Coalition also faced pressure over its policy on another front yesterday, with the head of Treasury, Martin Parkinson, raising the possibility that he and other officials might quit if Tony Abbott wins office and directs them to dismantle Labor’s carbon scheme.

    **Mr. Robb makes no mention of other vested interests more to his liking such as the Mining Council, the fossil fuel industry !

  93. opposing the Coalition’s climate policy because they want to profit from Labor’s $10 billion clean energy fund.

    Are you seriously saying that this is the oppositions line in their attack on Labors policy. That it will actually reward companies that implement clean technology?

    :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:

    THAT IS PRECISELY WHAT IT IS SUPPOSED TO DO!

    And these tools are way out in front. Although, it’s little wonder. Look at the friggin chaos one meeting with a queen created amongst our media. frigging talent-less hacks the lot.

  94. Apparently in the climate debate there are sceptics and there are the deniers, so to help the ‘legitimate’ sceptics.

    “Scientists at the University of California, Berkeley, investigated several key issues that sceptics claim can skew global warming figures and found they had no meaningful effect on world temperature trends.
    Researchers at the Berkeley Earth project compiled more than a billion temperature records dating back to the 1800s from 15 sources around the world and found that the average global land temperature has risen by around 1C since the mid-1950s.
    This figure agrees with the estimate of global warming arrived at by major groups that maintain official records on the world’s climate, including Nasa’s Goddard Institute for Space Studies in New York, the US National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (Noaa), and the Met Office’s Hadley Centre, with the University of East Anglia, in the UK.”

    “We have looked at these issues in a straightforward, transparent way, and based on that, I would expect legitimate sceptics to feel their issues have been addressed,” Muller said.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/oct/20/global-warming-study-climate-sceptics

  95. Tom R, re Mr. Robb’s brain explosion,
    He also suggested the government and the Greens had made private deals with clean energy businesses, and demanded to know ”what backdoor promises and commitments have already been made and to whom”.

    A senior executive at Pacific Hydro, one of Australia’s biggest renewable energy companies, hit back at Mr Robb. ”It’s just a shame that we are investing five times as much in Chile as in Australia because they reward investment in renewable energy,” said Andrew Richards, executive manager of corporate affairs.

    ”If you were convinced by the science of climate change – and I know Andrew Robb isn’t – you would say the fossil fuel industry has been protected for a long time because they don’t pay for the pollution
    they create.”

    *What a cheek from a Liberal Party who received about $22million indirectly via the advertising campaign by the Mining Council.
    Who knows what went on between those two parties regarding support for their fossil fuel industry.

  96. Sue, thanks for the link.

    I doubt the sceptics or the deniers will be convinced when they won’t differenciate between climate and weather !

  97. Tom..don’t tell me that the media are still debating the curtsey thing. Mind you, our Prime Minister being the bogan that she is might have attempted a High Five with the Queen.

  98. The curtsy thing.

    It appears the Queen has met with both leaders this morning.

    PM Gillard choose to greet the Queen with a handshake and the bowing of the head. The PM began the meeting with small talk.

    Mr Abbott on the other shook hands, no bow and straight into politics. Shame we are not told what his complaints were. Was he asking the Queen to call an election while she was here.

    What is telling is that Queen was heard too say after Mr Abbott left, was that minority government can be difficult.

    I imagine the Queen would be familiar with minority government as it is also the same in her own country.

    At least we have had a peep at how Mr. Abbott would behave on the world stage. He will not waste time with chivalry or good manners.

    We will, I am sure see headlines telling us how quick Mr. Abbott was telling the Queen his views on politics. No time for bowing or small talk for this forceful leader.

    Wonder if the Queen though that minority government was difficult for the PM or Mr. Abbott.

    The point is that the Queen was placed in an position that she felt the need to comment.

  99. “it would NEVER have happened under a Liberal government who struggled for 10 years to achieve nothing.”

    The reason that Mr. Howard inability to solve the problem was his negligence in not separating the two arms of Telstra when it was sold ff.

    The Rudd government realise this quickly after coming to power when they attempted to install their own scheme. The result being NBNCo and the vote taken at Telstra this week.

  100. Catching Up at 11.47
    Haven’t seen Abbott & Liz, I suppose I will later. Yes, Abbott’s straight down to getting what he wants. It reminds me of the Indonesian President’s visit to our Parliament not so long ago. Abbott’s address effectively hijacked things along the lines of “While you’re here, Bam Bam, what are we going to do about these bloody boats that it’s your responsibilty to stop?” John Key congratulated for winding back a carbon scheme when he isn’t. Abbott’s a piece of work & no mistake.

  101. Min
    As my doctor said Abbott was the worst health minister going. so he doesn’t need to”wind back ” abortion laws he just needs to mess with the current laws. As they have tried to do in the UK.
    Counselling with religious non profit organisations from the USA
    Cut medicare
    must view ultra sounds
    Yes plenty of room for Abbott without “wind back”.

  102. Yes, the self delusion of Tony Abbott on this as on most issues is breathtaking! Today he tells Katherine Murphy that in his ,“record, both as Leader of the Opposition and as a senior member of the government, there are strong grounds for conferring trust.”!!!!

  103. BSA Bob and Cu, I saw the interview about four hours ago and it’s taken this long for the journo to put his spin on it.

    Queen and Abbott surprise with talk of robust politics

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/queen-and-abbott-surprise-with-talk-of-robust-politics/story-fnaivo74-1226172961915

    There was no polite conversation for starters, Abbott launched straight into his spiel.

    In a brief appearance before the cameras, The Queen and Mr Abbott surprised by chatting about Australia’s robust politics, rather than making the usual small talk.

    The Queen did not surprise, Abbott did that on his own!!

    Mr Abbott told her: “We play our politics tough in this country. We give no quarter.”

    There is no report of the length of the Abbott interview but the PM had a 45 minute talk with the Queen.

    Earlier, the Queen and the Prime Minister, received in the drawing room of Government House, talked about royal couple’s enthusiastic reception by the crowd that yesterday lined Lake Burley Griffin in Canberra, as she and Prince Philip motored to the Floriade festival.

    A smiling Ms Gillard assured the Queen people had turned out to see her, not for the sunny Canberra weather or its famous flower show. The two women evidently get on: they met for about 45 minutes, which over-ran the allotted time of the audience. Ms Gillard shook the Queen’s hand and bowed, rather than curtsy.

    Enough about the curtsy !!

    **Queen receives Gillard, Abbott in separate private meetings

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/queen-to-receive-gillard-abbott-in-separate-private-meetings/story-fnaivo74-1226172565686

    Still not saying how long Mr. Abbott was in the meeting…

    The two women met for almost three-quarters of an hour, which apparently was longer than staff had anticipated.
    After the prime minister left, the Queen received Mr Abbott.

  104. Future not so simple for Abbott

    http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/opinion/post/-/blog/andrewprobyn/post/195/comment/1/

    Tony Abbott has sown the seeds of his own destruction. It’s not that he won’t win the next election. He most probably will.

    But unless he sets about seriously reconfiguring various policies, when he becomes prime minister he will either have to break promises, commit humiliating backdowns or attempt to wheedle his way out of controversy.

    This could be the death of his prime ministership, as it was with Kevin Rudd. But more of that later.

    This week, on border protection, carbon pricing and the National Broadband Network, there have been little signs of the bigger troubles ahead for the Opposition Leader.

    With Labor’s carbon pricing regime having passed the House of Representatives last week, and the expectation it will pass the Senate next month, focus has quite reasonably shifted to Mr Abbott’s pledge to repeal the legislation should he win office.

  105. The PM has turned up in a beautiful dress too similar to the Queen. The PM gave a wonderful welcoming speech that even raised a smile with the Duke.

    I am sad to say, The eminent Mr. Abbott gave a shocker that would have been better not uttered. He could not leave politics, nasty politcs at that out of it.

    Mr. Abbott has failed twice today. He greets the Queen with no bow and launches into politics, that led the Queen to say immediately he left, that minority government is hard.

  106. The joy of it all, Cu, is that the Queen probably doesn’t give a rat’s toss bag about anything Abbott had to say. I can’t seeing her briefing the palace when she returns home on what Tones said to her.

    Unless Abbott follows her around Australia like a prancing toy dog I’m prepared to say that she’s forgotten him already.

    What is sad, is that he thinks he can mesmerise the Queen with talk that is akin to electioneering. And no doubt he will mention her when the campaign does get underway.

    In two years. :D

  107. Tony Abbott has sown the seeds of his own destruction. It’s not that he won’t win the next election. He most probably will.

    Pip, shoot me if you must, but I’m so over the media’s elevation of Abbott and Abbott’s bag of bullshit that I’m half hoping he does win the election. Then watch the people who voted for him scream when the truth hits home that he’s a complete dill and not capable or interested in fulfilling the promises he’s been harping on about over the last 12 months.

    He will fall into a screaming heap. He will damage the party immeasurably.

  108. when the truth hits home that he’s a complete dill and not capable or interested in fulfilling the promises

    I reckon that might take a while Migs. The media will do their utmost to hide it and mislead the populace, in precisley the way they are doing right now.

    After the meltdown they had yesterday when the PM did absolutely nothing wrong in her dealings with Queen, not word about yabot not bowing to her.

    Selective outrage?

  109. Listening to ABC News and PM here in WA – no mention made of Abbott’s politicising his chat with Her Maj. I see the ABC site says the PM had a 40 minute audience (I understand it was 45 minutes) and no mention at all made of the length of Abbott’s time. So, someone in the ABC news room was trying to play down any suggestion that the Julia Gillard had somehow earned a few extra brownie points with Her Majesty!

    Once you become aware it’s so easy to see how Julia Gillard’s plusses can be downplayed and diminished, and her ‘gaffes’ made much of! e.g. reference to ‘curtseygate’ of all things – and no mention of that particular ABC story being met with a resounding thumbs down by visitors to the news site.

  110. She is only a woman, and Mr. Abbott treats her like he treats with all woman, as a bit of a joke.

    I am a little with you, I would like to see Abbott win. I do not think it would be the worse thing for Labor in the long run.

    I think we would be seeing what we are seeing in NSW. Seeing must faster than I ever imagined.

    Yesterday I was with my grand daughter in the Mt Druitt area. We were listening to the radio i the car. I said don’t lie to some comment. My grand daughter comes out with a very angry comment about the promise made before the election to remove the local Methadone clinic to hospital grounds. It is causing great distress where it is now located. They have been told it will not be moved.

    Today my daughter who will not have politics talked about in her presence, yelled out from where she was sitting on the computer. She asked what stupid government was closing fire stations and that this region was the worse affected.

    The following comment that she bet she would not hear it on the news.

    That is the beauty of a state government breaking promises, people noticed.

  111. Migs @7.05pm and The joy of it all, Cu, is that the Queen probably doesn’t give a rat’s toss bag..

    Yup, you’re right the Queen does not give ‘a rat’s toss’..is that a South Australian expression? or one that you just made up?

  112. Alan Asher it is turds like you who have turned me away from Christianity.
    Thank you for that.
    Fond regards
    Steve.

    P. S. keep listening to the tapes, maybe you will find some solace, I doubt it.
    I recommend the Bhagavad Gita at this point, but you are a bigoted Christian right?
    God is not a bigot, or a Christian, but your limited understanding is just that;
    Limited

  113. Pip, he certainly deserved his come-uppance! But for all that I think that Sarah HY should have taken responsibility for her part in it all instead the Greens coming out and attacking the government for a political assassination. What deceit and hypocrisy!

    Bob Brown lost some of his gloss for me. SHY I’ve always seen as a media tart and drama queen. Now, who will ever believe she is for real? Who will know when she is sincere or acting a part? Did you see that 7.30 piece on the questions as scripted and then her performance of them in Senate Estimates?

  114. Hi patricia,
    I did see SHY on 7.30 and she wouldn’t take any responsibility for the hornet’s nest.
    I agree about her being a media tart, and there were a few comments on Twitter yesterday along the lines of “where’s SHY today”.
    She went missing !!

    PS, wireless is very slow to accept my comment …it’s not that
    my typing is slow….

  115. And it’s a big, big thank you to Mike Carlton..on the subject of children who are crews on the boats and jailed due to people smuggling charges.

    Ross Taylor, the chairman of the Indonesia Institute, a Perth lobby group, estimates there are at least 20 boys in West Australian adult jails and another 14 at Silverwater in Sydney. There is an unknown number in Darwin and Brisbane.

    Taylor is scathing. ”It’s outrageous,” he says. ”By the time many of these kids get to court, they’ll have been held for two and three years. We’ve created a monster here, we can’t deal with it, and everyone just ducks for cover.”

    Yet we all go ape when a 14-year-old Australian boy is held on drugs charges in Bali. The hypocrisy is despicable.

    http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/the-shame-we-keep-locked-away-20111021-1mc7p.html

  116. patriciawa
    re gillard meeting queen
    they met for 45 minutes, 5 minutes with cameras 40 in private, which was 15 minutes more than scheduled.
    no mention any where of time with abbott.

    did abbott demand equal time?

  117. Yes, Michelle makes excuses for Asher. I noticed the poll agrees that he should have resigned.

    The government might not like what he says but the cannot stop him. Yes, he made corrections, but maybe they needed to be made.

    I see nothing wrong with the government seeing any release first.

    He always has the right to say what he likes before senate hearings.

    By conspiring with the Green senator, he has weakened his case.

  118. Min, it is time the children were taken out of the prisons. In our country we have other options.

    Indonesia seem to handle our children that get into trouble in an appropriate manner.

  119. Wow. I did nit think it would happen. I agree with Mike Carlton.

    Labor/Greens now has the record. Under Bob Browns government we have a record number of asylum seekers in detention, a record number of children in detention and now a record number of Indonesian children in our jail.

    You can tell John Howard is no longer in power otherwise this would be spread all over the newspapers and there would be protests in the streets about the heartless Howard govt.

  120. No figures. I just used my commonsense. We have a record number of people in detention.

    There were 6 boat people in immigration detention in 2007 and we now have 6,000. With no people smuggling trade there would have been no smugglers in prison.

    It is amazing however how ALP supporters change their behaviour when their own people are in power.

    There would be riots in the streets if Howard was in power with 6,000 people in detention

  121. But Neil, imprisoning the people smugglers..surely this would be a far more substantial deterrent. You seem to have changed tack.

  122. “imprisoning the people smugglers..surely this would be a far more substantial deterrent.”

    It has not worked so far.

    Is it not ironic that Bob Browns govt has the most boat people ever in immigration detention??

  123. “No figures. I just used my commonsense”.

    Now that had been spraying porridge all over my iPad. I doubt that I’ve ever been more amused by a blog comment.

  124. Migs..you’re eating porridge for lunch :shock:

    Neil, how do you know that imprisoning the people smugglers hasn’t worked? Due to Rudd’s efforts in working with Indonesia, Indonesian forces and the Feds have now picked up another King Pin.

  125. What an interesting observation over on Facebook.

    “This week we buried 6.30pm with George Negus, a brave experiment by the Ten Network that cynics would say was doomed from the start. Quality current affairs on a commercial network? Let’s be honest: what chance did it ever have?”. That Negus has been axed while Melbourne’s village idiot, Andrew Bolt still has a poor-rating show on channel 10 speaks volumes about the political bias of the station’s owners.

  126. I have just received an email from the ABC online shop, apparently they will be upgrading the service and need to change how information is stored.
    The 3rd party provider is o/s so this is the information they may have access to

    “This data may include personal information of our customers including name, gift recipient names, home address, delivery address, contact phone number, email, ViP membership number, gift messages, gift voucher details, order details (i.e. products purchased), user name, password for access to ABC Shop Online.”

    Quite a list, but the purpose of the email, is that you can unsubscribe.
    After unsubscribing you have the opportunity to tell them why.

    I found that highly amusing.

  127. If el gordo ever posts here when I’m not around could someone kindly tell her that we don’t like two-faced liars at this blog site.

  128. Pip and Migs, well el gordo isn’t exactly the sharpest tool in the shed and we at the Café have been extremely patient with her. And full marks to Mobius and TomR in this regard. But if she is being a two-faced liar then she never need bother posting to this blog ever again.

  129. Shorten urges scrutiny of Abbott’s policies

    http://www.abc.net.au/insiders/content/2011/s3346015.htm

    That should be happening but host Barrie Cassidy is more interested in politicking, week after week after week….

    BARRIE CASSIDY: Is there is a time in the political cycle when you really need to start making some progress in the published polls?

    BILL SHORTEN: Well I’d have to say so far what matters to this Government is actually making progress in the legislation and the economy.

    When we talk about progress you can get up in the morning and look at the polls or you can look at the job numbers.

    Again, job numbers don’t seem to be as sexy as they once were – 752,000 new jobs since the end of 2007, 140,000 in the last 12 months, 20,000 in the last month.

    I tell you the number which excites me more, it’s the job numbers.

    And we’re doing the same with the national broadband network, laying the foundations of the national disability insurance scheme, we want to lift superannuation. These are the numbers, these are the facts which matter to households and small businesses, not the polls.

  130. Min, maybe they are, and if eg decides to come back causing
    mischief I’ll probably be the tall one and ignore her completely
    as well as staying out of the Gutter :grin:

    Why waste energy on a lost cause.

  131. Well, yes, she’s been caught out telling lies 3 times now in quick succession. I’m sure I’ve missed just as many.

    For some people it’s just so compulsive.

  132. “…………..Western Sydney man Dick Pearson — one of the ringleaders who brought Ms Gillard and Federal Parliament to a standstill by chanting from the public gallery — said he regretted abusing the PM.

    In a letter to The Sunday Telegraph, Mr Pearson identified himself as the man who was captured by TV cameras yelling out: “I’m just a citizen that’s fed up with this Stalinist redheaded skank that’s running this country. Bloody lyin’ skank, red-headed bitch.”

    Mr Pearson said while he had “no respect for the incumbent, Ms Gillard” he apologised for his language.

    “In the heat of the moment I used inappropriate, offensive and sexist language, which I regret,” Mr Pearson wrote. “I apologise for what could be seen as gross disrespect for the office of the Prime Minister…….”

    http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/protester-sorry-for-pm-insult/comments-e6freuy9-1226174043282

    I wonder what made him change his tune. The sight of him on the evening news was not so flattering.

    He claims to have made the statements in the heat of the moment.

    It is not the norm for people to become so angry, that they are out of control in the public galleries.

    The opposite is true, boredom is the norm.

    Heat of the moment, who was it that manage to get a group of older people stirred up and agitated that they acted as four year having a tantrum.

    On the previous occasion they were taken to lunch. I wonder if the visited the bar for some lubrication.

    PS It was not the media that gave him a hard time. His friends and family must have bought him to his senses.

  133. Cu, this was one of the published comments :roll:

    Poor Mr. Pearson doesn’t understand that the PM did not lie about the carbon tax. She made a speech before the election, at the National Press Club, in which she said she wanted to put a price on carbon folllowed by an emissions trading scheme. This is not a carbon tax on the people of Australia. This was reported in The Australian by Paul Kelly and Dennis Shanahan before the election. When I challenged ‘Mumble’ in The Australian about this so-called lie he cleverly found a substitute lie, because the PM had said in her speech that she wouldn’t instigate the carbon pricing until 2013, and this carbon pricing begins in 2012. I guess he’s happy with his argument because he showed that he and the rest of the media aren’t entirely wrong! Mr. Pearson doesn’t understand that carbon pricing will be on fossil fuels mined by the biggest polluting companies, and unless Mr. Pearson owns one of those mining companies he won’t be taxed. In fact he will be compensated for the
    very slight increase in costs.

    and here’s another comment…..someone’s been busily posting the news about what Paul Kelly and Dennis Shanahan wrote before the election :roll:

    Tony Abbott is the cause of this disrespect for our Prime Minister and yet the media appears to condone his lies to appease him and make him look good when he really isn’t that good at all and would never ever make a decent trustworthy Prime Minister. This is from a story “Julia Gillard’s carbon price promise”, written by Paul kelly and DennisShanahan on August 20, 2010 the day before the last Federal Election @ 12 AM “Julia Gillard say that she is prepared to legislate a carbon price in the next term.” “I don’t rule out the possibility of legislating a Carbon Pollution Reduction Scheme,a market-based mechanism,” she said of the next parliament, “I rule ou a carbon tax” “This is the strongest message Ms Gillard has sent about action on carbon pricing” Brendan Hills: It appears that Julia Gillard has kept her promise about legislating a carbon price (or a price on carbon) and she has not lied or deceived the Australian peole like Tony Abbott and his Liberal Opposition party are hoodwinking the Australian people into believing.

  134. Pearson apologised apparently after this article:
    “Claire Harvey: Voice of people not for threats
    Democracy ain’t dead. But hopefully the rude, crude blue-rinse protest movement is.

    ….it’s probably a good thing the protest happened on Wednesday. It exposed the anti-carbon tax protesters for what they really are: a bunch of people who either wilfully or ignorantly have allowed themselves to play patsy for much more clever and powerful interests.

    Thanks in part to these protesters, plenty of Australians are afraid and worried about the carbon tax. That’s because they haven’t been listening.

    Seriously.

    They might have been tuning into talkback and flicking through the papers, but the people leading the anti-Gillard campaign are fundamentally misrepresenting the way carbon pricing actually works — the truth about what it means and what it will do.

    Many Australians genuinely believe the “carbon tax” will be a tax they actually pay — like the GST or stamp duty or income tax.

    That’s simply untrue. It’s a line, peddled by people who should know better. This is not a tax on ordinary wage-earning Australians. It is a system whereby the 500 biggest-polluting companies will have to buy permits, which will ultimately be traded on an open international market. ”

    http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/opinion/voice-of-people-not-for-threats/story-e6frezz0-1226167523137

    CU
    from your article the good ol Tele got to repeat the nasyt comments from Pearson. Yes the good ol Tele really likes to repeat offensive remarks about the PM.
    The story by Harvey had them and now this follow up by Brendan Hills. It demonstrates the quality of this rag that insists on insulting the PM under the guise of reporting!

  135. An interesting piece about how the pokies managers operate, and the technology they use to get people hooked.
    Pokies and heroin affect the same neuro transmitters.

    sneaky bastards file: bally technologies

    http://www.cyenne.com/discussion/sneaky-bastards-file-bally-technologies/

    Every now and then I come across something in the gaming industry that leaves me gobsmacked. For that reason, I started the Sneaky Bastards File a while back, and I started dropping companies and venues into it when I saw fit.

    But the more I see, the more I get used to the shenanigans of the poker machine industry… and the Sneaky Bastards File has been gathering dust of late. But today I’ve taken it out, given it a good airing and put it back into circulation.

    There’s a union called the CMAA; that’s the Club Management Association of Australia. The Association (from their website) “represents professional managers of clubs, some 2,500 of whom manage approximately two thirds of NSW licensed clubs”. So they’re kind of a big deal in the industry.

  136. “Greedy Lying Bastards” Exposes Big Oil’s Dirty Secret

    http://www.care2.com/causes/greedy-lying-bastards-exposes-fossil-fuel-industry-crimes.html

    Over the past month, the Occupy Wall Street protests have brought the reality of corporate dishonesty to the forefront of the American consciousness.

    In what seems like perfect harmony with the current sentiments of the Occupiers, filmmaker and political activist Craig Rosebraugh has announced the 2012 release date of his unapologetic documentary, “Greedy Lying Bastards.”

    The film follows Rosebraugh as he documents the impact of a fossil fuel industry that puts profits before people, wages a campaign of lies to thwart measures to combat climate change, uses its clout to minimize infringing regulations and sustain unnecessary federal subsidies that are crushing the economy.

  137. A by- election is due for the NSW govt
    A little gem on the O’Farrell govt from the North Coast Voices

    http://northcoastvoices.blogspot.com/

    “Ramsey Food Processing and Stuart Bruce Ramsey’s response to recent court proceedings which went against them

    Hot on the heels of various court judgments (including a finding of contempt, a $130,000 fine and a order to compensate sacked workers)

    That the Nationals find this a politically sensitive issue is evidenced by the extraordinary assertion of Clarence Duty MLC, Rick Colless, that the O’Farrell Government was prepared to subvert the authority of the Court by dismissing the fines imposed by the New South Wales Land and Environment Court in August last year.

    As Mr. Ramsey has apparently rejected this offer one can only suppose that he was angling for a higher level of financial support from the NSW Government than that represented by this proposed waiver. “

  138. Evacuations as fire threatens homes [ Katoomba ]

    http://www.bluemountainsgazette.com.au/news/local/news/general/evacuations-as-fire-threatens-homes/2333935.aspx

    Homes are under threat, school students and tourists have been evacuated and the Katoomba Scenic Skyway has ceased operating as a major bushfire sweeps through the Echo Point area this afternoon (Monday).
    An emergency warning has been put in place for the Cliff Drive and Birdwood Avenue area after the fire broke out in bushland just before 2pm this afternoon, causing Katoomba High School to be evacuated and putting properties at risk.

    More than 100 Rural Fire Service (RFS) firefighters are now on the scene and more than 25 Fire and Rescue NSW trucks were either at the fire or on the way at 3.30pm today.

    Ground crews are being assisted by three aircraft and additional crews from surrounding areas are being deployed to help with firefighting efforts.

    Twitpic from Rhys Muldoon

  139. Eddie
    good read. during QT in parliament Gillard took pleasure in pointing out that she kept the correspondence of all coalition mps, who wanted their electorates on the list of nbn roll outs, she than proceeded to name the mps.

  140. Sue and Eddie, thanks for the links.

    Eddie ** Australia Network news
    Rudd forced tender on Asia service

    http://www.theage.com.au/national/rudd-forced-tender-on-asia-service-20111023-1memt.html

    KEVIN Rudd rejected plans to allow the ABC to keep operating Australia’s official TV service in Asia, despite a confidential government review that gave a gold star to the public broadcaster for running Australia Network.

    The detailed ”mid-term” report by the Foreign Affairs Department was never released to the ABC but was prepared last year to help decide the future of the $223 million service.

    But Mr Rudd – toppled from the prime ministership only days before the report was finalised – decided, on taking over as Foreign Minister after the election, to demand a more intense process. This resulted in putting the service out to tender in February and allowing Rupert Murdoch’s part-owned Sky News to compete with the ABC for a new 10-year contract.

    Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/national/rudd-forced-tender-on-asia-service-20111023-1memt.html#ixzz1bfz0Bqnw

  141. Gobsmacking, isn’t it, Eddie?

    I think we’re going to hear those same complaints all over the country. “What about me?”

    Except from Abbott, of course. The silly old fool will be at home with his cherished dial up. Can’t see him letting the kids use fast broadband.

  142. Another report about the “do nothing government”.

    School seen as health remedy

    http://www.blacktownsun.com.au/news/local/news/general/school-seen-as-health-remedy/2333987.aspx

    PRIME Minister Julia Gillard opened the new clinical school at Blacktown Hospital last week and predicted it would be a remedy for western Sydney’s health problems.
    Inspiring teachers and enthusiastic young medical students at the state-of-the-art clinical school would lead western Sydney out of chronic health disadvantage, she said.

    These events happen regularly but somehow the main stream
    media seem not to notice.

  143. Well, this is embarrassing. What is supposed to be my second day on the new job sees me confined to bed with bronchitis. I knew I shouldn’t have visited the doctor. :(

  144. Migs..I think that we all figured that you would much rather have been embraced than embarrassed. One of those Freudian slips :D

  145. Pip was spot on Richardson did not even blush. I refused to believe this man has any inside information. I refuse to believe there is a Labor MO stupid enough to talk to him.

    Do we now have a new meaning for voluntary?
    It the back room jobs goes, who supports the front line staff. It has to mean that the front line staffs have to add the back room jobs to their workloads.
    The clerical and other tasks of the backroom still have to be done.
    ………………………………………………………….
    New South Wales Treasurer Mike Baird says public sector workers who are offered voluntary redundancies will be sacked if they do not accept them.

    The State Government has today released details of the first 1,900 public sector jobs which will go as part of a plan to shed 5,000 positions………….

    …….. But this morning Mr Baird was quizzed in an estimates hearing in State Parliament about what will happen if a worker refuses to accept a redundancy package.

    “If they decide they don’t want to pursue that then there is three months to look for another job,” Mr Baird told the committee.

    “What we have done is get rid of that unattached list.”

    Workers that do not find another job within the three months will not be kept on the public payroll.

    Mr Baird’s stance was criticised by Labor MP Walt Secord.

    “Voluntary no longer means voluntary. Voluntary means sacked,” Mr Secord said.

    The 1,900 redundancies offered today cover 10 departments.

    In the Justice Department 498 packages have been offered, while the Education Department is to shed 262 jobs……….

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-10-25/baird-admits-voluntary-redundancies-compulsory/3599424

  146. Pip a better comment came from Mr. Pyne. He was raving on about the outcry about the behaviour of the PM when she met the Queen. He was asked by more than one, what outcry?. He mumbled something about the media.

    Pity this did not occur more often when stupid statements are asked. It only needs one word. “who”.

  147. There were concerns that over $1000 per year was taken from foster carers allowance for foster children. What was missed that there is $5000 or more taken from the foster children between 16 and 18 years.

    It looks like they are taking advantage of the Federal governments increase to 16 and over school children.

    In the past, the foster parent collected Child Endowment and other like payments as well as the allowance to cover the child’s expenses.

    It appears to me that the State Governments is deducting Federal payments from the Federal Allowances.

    Maybe Wixxy can enlighten me, if I am on the right track, as I am a little out of date as to how the system works today.

  148. Cu,
    this should put an end to the ‘curtsy’ beat-up, and also the ‘last visit’. Or not !!

    Curtsy row ‘storm in royal teacup’

    http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/article/ALeqM5joIWIrIphlw5MB1XTbedjT3U56Ug?docId=N0257961319525647049A

    A Buckingham Palace spokeswoman said: “The person who is least concerned about protocol is the Queen – we’ve always said do what you feel comfortable with.”

    She added: “Absolutely no offence was taken at all – it’s a storm in a royal teacup.”

    Commentators have been calling the 85-year-old Queen’s 11-day visit her last tour of Australia in light of her age.

    But the Palace spokeswoman insisted the tour did not have the feeling of a final event, and said the Queen was “delighted” with the warmth of the reception she has received.

    She said: “It’s almost a coming home for the Queen. She has a huge fondness for Australia, a lot of Australians have worked in her household.

    “There’s no sense at all of ‘Thank you and goodbye’.”

  149. I am not too sure but I believe you are correct. I was still at my daughters place where the three and five year old rules the roost. Do love them but one does miss much of what is on the TV.

  150. Libs likely to reject pokies bill
    October 25, 2011 – 10:04PM

    http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/libs-likely-to-reject-pokies-bill-20111025-1mic5.html

    Opposition Leader Tony Abbott has predicted that his party will not support poker machine gambling reforms and has indicated the coalition will rescind any legislation if elected.

    Speaking to more than 1000 club supporters at a packed rally at Campbelltown RSL south-west of Sydney on Tuesday night, Mr Abbott said “no sensible government leaves really bad law in place”.

    Mr Abbott said his party had so far not seen the government’s legislation, which seeks to force pokie players to preset a limit on how much they can spend in an effort to stem problem gambling.

    Advertisement: Story continues below Nevertheless, he predicted the party would not support it.

    An Opposition is supposed to review proposed legislation before reaching a conclusion Mr. Abbott !

  151. Well you have to look after Mr. Packer and his Casinos. I thought they were exempted. Then we cannot deprive Woolworth’s of any money.

    After all th gambling dollar is not to be sneezed at.

    In this case, I believe that Mr. Abbott has backed the wrong party.

  152. This sounds exceptionally dangerous to me…

    ‘Immersive’ pokie machines lashed

    NEW pokie machines with earphones for punters that promise owners ”a new level of profitability” have been condemned by federal MPs, a Victorian minister and academics as dangerous and likely to increase problem gambling….

    ”The idea of plugging into a poker machine and shutting out the world like this goes against every known concept of responsible gambling. The only reason any venue would install these machines is to make more money at the expense of creating addicts,” (gambling reform advocate) Mr Cummings said.

    http://www.theage.com.au/national/immersive-pokie-machines-lashed-20111025-1mi6k.html#ixzz1bpFDOLbx

  153. yabot preaching to the converted

    “But by all means let’s do more to help the problem gamblers of Australia but let’s not do it in a way which risks renting the social fabric of this country.”

    Sorry, ‘social fabric’.

    I would out forward that any ‘social fabric’ that is supported by the misery of problem gamblers is a ‘social fabric’ I don’t want to be a part of.

    I would also put forward that pokies themselves have already destroyed the ‘social fabric’ of our society. You know, the fabric where you would meet your mates down the local for a beer and a chat. Not any more, impossible to chat over the noise of the infernal machines, and the depressing gloom of people isolated at their machines.

  154. And how does Abbott intend to try to help problem gamblers which hasn’t already been tried and failed.. I’ve viewed the self-banning idea at work. This one ended up with staff having huge run-ins with people who changed-their-minds.

  155. And how does Abbott intend to try to help problem gamblers

    Min, he is in opposition, it is his job to oppose, not put forward alternative plans.

    Apparently!

  156. “Oppose and consequences be damned”.

    We clearly have an opposition leader who lacks the ability to think before he speaks. It is apparent that he does not know the concept of applying logical thought in that small mass taking up residency inside his head.

    I cannot trust this man to lead our country. ‘Damage’ is his only motive.

  157. I would agree, Abbott has only ever been an attack dog he doesn’t know any other way. Nation building? He wouldn’t even know how to begin…

  158. What is depressing is not so much that an opposition would put forward such a reckless alternative s a PM, but that our media still refuse to acknowledge this recklessness. In fact, they do all they can to feed it.

  159. Tom R,
    you’re right, he’s been on the road for a long time, trouble is he keeps coming back to that camera and megaphone.

    OR…that would be like like newspoll and “noosepoll”

  160. Requirement for Rhodes Scholarship ; from wikipedia ].

    Rhodes’ legacy specified four standards by which applicants were to be judged:

    Literary and scholastic attainments;

    Energy to use one’s talents to the fullest, as exemplified by fondness for and success in sports;

    Truth, courage, devotion to duty, sympathy for and protection of the weak, kindliness, unselfishness and fellowship;

    Moral force of character and instincts to lead, and to take an interest in one’s fellow beings.

    Nope, still can’t believe Abbott was a Rhodes scholar.

  161. Abbott on the poker machine reforms: it’s all about ‘freedom and choice’. Tony of course, following this same logic will therefore be lobbying for the legalisation of marijuana..freedom and choice Tony.

  162. Abbott and poker machines
    Dooley’s is a catholic club

    In the club’s latest newsletter its chief executive, David Mantle, warns members that ”mandatory pre-commitment is a real threat to the future success of Dooleys”.

    According to Dooley’s 2009-10 annual report, $35,928,215 of its total revenue of $45,072,654 in 2010 came from gaming machines.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/national/catholic-club-to-join-pokie-campaign-20111004-1l7dp.html#ixzz1brfS6XlH

  163. “Abbott on the poker machine reforms: it’s all about ‘freedom and choice’. Tony of course, following this same logic will therefore be lobbying for the legalisation of marijuana..freedom and choice Tony.”

    Good catch Min…

    Likewise can we see Tony extending his “Freedom and Choice” campaign to:

    – marriage equality
    – the right to a decent education
    – the right to decent healthcare
    – an end to vilification of asylum seekers
    – an end to vilification of those on disability payments and the long term unemployed?

    Woops! All those points also apply to Labor, but I suspect you get my drift…

  164. “mandatory pre-commitment is a real threat to the future success of Dooleys”.

    oh well who cares…

    If a club is dependent on problem gamblers for its existence then personally I’d be quite happy for it to go broke.

    And can anyone really point to all this so called “charitable good” that clubs are apparently meant to do in our community? I’ve heard a lot of talk about it, but I’ll be buggered if I can think of one single thing.

  165. Reb

    Excellent points in both comments. Freedom of Choice seems only to apply when it suits Tony Abbotts cause for power.

    I (as a catholic) am ashamed at Dooleys and other clubs as they are truly praying on the gambling addict. If not they wouldn’t care one iota about mandatory pre commitment levels or low impact machines. It shows the hypocrisy when one side of the religion seeks to help the poor while another side cares nothing for the addiction of poker machine gambling creating the poor in the first place.

  166. The Catholic Church is one of the richest organizations on the planet. They acquired most of their wealth through plunder so I’m not surprised they’re into pokies too.

    Did you know that the Vatican never paid Michaelangelo for painting the ceiling of the Sistine Chappell? He spent four years on the job and pleaded to be paid for over 20 years. Ignored him each time. Thieving buggers.

  167. Migs, just sayin’,…. I have lovely neighbours :smile:

    I blame them ……

    Maybe your neighbour just didn’t know what he was missing :roll:

  168. Dooleys latest annual report Revenue $54mil, $44mil from pokie machines.
    $61,000 to sports clubs, $693,000 to CDSE- listed at end in 2 categories, schools medical etc

    However the club likes to say that “The Club contributed in excess of $1,300,000 to community services, projects, amenities and in kind
    support during the financial year. This is close to
    double the requirement through the CDSE scheme”

    Revenue $54,813,151 21.4%
    Profit* $9,982,503 55.2%*

    And here is the breakdown of the $1.3 mil
    TOTAL COMMUNITY EXPENDITURE
    CDSE contributions $693,026
    Complimentary Room Hire $158,963
    Fundraising Vouchers $5,600
    Sports Clubs Facilities $61,240
    Sponsorships $160,749
    Donations $241,328
    TOTAL COMMUNITY EXPENDITURE $1,320,906

    And here is the revenue

    Bars $2,741,753
    Gaming machines $44,338,852
    Coffee lounge $4,841,110
    Cafe $733,243
    Functions $601,668
    Subscriptions and joining fees 132,165
    Rental 307,014
    Keno commissions $180,223
    Subsidy 563,953
    Other 165,693
    Total sale of goods and services $54,605,674

    $44million through the pokies in 1 year and all that went to the community was $1.3million , The next biggest earner was the coffee lounge at $4.8 million.

    No wonder the clubs are complaining and how (i really do not know which label to give) stupid/selfish/generous are the members. $44 million from the pokies, I have presumed that is a net figure as I couldn’t see how much was paid out to the players/addicts.

    PS I only checked the Dooley annual report as Dooley’s was in the SMH.

    CDSE breakdown
    CDSE Category 1
    Alzheimer’s Australia NSW $2,797
    Asian Women at Work $10,700
    Auburn Asian Welfare Centre Inc $13,280
    Auburn City Council $14,063
    Auburn Diversity Services Inc $27,372
    Australian Council of Womens Affairs $35,682
    Berala Public School $10,000
    Berala Public School P&C $6,257
    BetSafe $37,800
    Bowelscan $500
    Capoeira Angola Cultural Centre Australia $7,800
    The Children’s Hospital at Westmead $9,900
    Community of Southern Sudan & Other Marginalised Areas Association $7,500
    Kateb Hazara Association $10,930
    Learning Links $8,898
    Leukaemia Foundation $5,928
    Refugee Language Program – University of Sydney $11,440
    Regents Park Veterans & Community Mens Shed $8,950
    Royal Rehabilitation Centre $3,300
    Sri Om Foundation Ltd $7,875
    St Joseph’s Village $28,935
    Technical Aid to the Disabled $4,000
    The Association of Bhanin El-Minieh $38,335
    The Ephpheta Centre $8,700
    The Royal Life Saving Society NSW $5,000
    The Spastic Centre $8,250
    Turkish Welfare Association $23,800
    Youth off the Streets $10,000
    Queensland Flood Relief Appeal $25,000
    CATEGORY 1 TOTAL $392,992

    CDSE Category2 Total $300,034
    Barnardos Australia $27,000
    Immaculate Heart of Mary Sefton Primary School $28,000
    St Peter Chanel Primary School $28,000
    St Joseph the Worker Primary School $28,000
    St John’s Primary School $28,000
    St Joachim’s Primary School $28,000
    The John Berne School $5,000
    The Children’s Hospital at Westmead $45,000
    St Martha’s School Strathfield $1,000
    Newington Public School P&C $7,000
    St Oliver’s Primary School $1,646
    Sydney Breast Cancer Foundation $2,000
    The Children’s Hospital at Westmead $8,138
    Max Potential $23,250
    Transplant Australia $12,000
    Karningul School $2,000
    Cancer Council Relay for Life $1,000
    Queensland Flood Relief Appeal $25,000

  169. “how on earth did he manage that ?”

    That is a wonder. As it is clear that Mr. Abbott is willing to do anything to get what he wants, even destroy the economy, maybe he used similar methods to gain his Rhodes scholarship.

    What worries me more, if he gained his qualifications by honest means, why is the covering up his intellect. What is he really planning for us.

    Mr. Abbott is no longer promising but predicting.

    Min, don’ you know counselling is the answer. Mr. Abbott has made this wonderful discovery. Please someone, asked Mr. Abbott why this has not worked up to now.

    Please Mr. Abbott, why are the counsellors asking for more action.

    I do hope the Catholic Club has spoken to their local St Vincent De Paul workers in the area for their opinions.

    I am sure they club is making big donations to them, to help buy the gamblers food, pay their rent and electricity.

    I am sure the club is living up to to it’s s responsibility buy making generous donations, to support those they harm.

  170. There is an answer to the counselling issue.

    The BetSafe Responsible Gambling Program $37800, not a bad return for $44million

  171. I hate to be so suspicious but could addressing the club do, be a way of directing attention from the PM in WA.

    The one he has when he thinks he has said something clever or funny.

  172. Good news Miglo. It looked like she was going to get away with what she has done.

    The lady has sure put the police and prosecutors off side, for what in the scheme of things, is not a major offence.

    I wonder if there are any previous incidents.

  173. Another day, another stunt. Mr. Abbott once again says nothing.

    “………………Now, Abbott has been extremely vague about these reforms. He has said that he doesn’t think they’ll work, although he’s been very light-on for details as to why not; yet as recently as a week or so ago, he flatly refused to consider rolling back the reforms if they became law. Ray Hadley put the question to him repeatedly on 2GB, but Abbott held firm.

    Oh, how quickly things change.

    Last night, there was a rally at Campbelltown RSL. A pro-pokies, anti-reforms rally. Abbott was there, flanked by Alan Jones and Phil Gould… and it looks like he let the moment carry him away. I’ve seen the official transcript of Abbott’s address to the rally, and it’s strewn with inaccuracies and generalisations… but it doesn’t contain his most damning comments:

    “When this legislation comes before the Parliament I predict that we will oppose it.”

    “And if this legislation is passed by the Parliament and if we then subsequently form a government, I predict we will rescind it. That’s what I predict.”

    Still no ironclad guarantees; rather, he’s making “predictions” about what will happen. That gives him an out; plenty of wriggle-room in a prediction……………

    …………It was also interesting to note that Abbott, like the industry before him, misrepresented the reforms. No mention of $1 maximum bets with no pre-commitment required. No mention of financial assistance and extensions for smaller and regional venues. No… he focused on the politics of the situation, and on protecting the industry. He has no policy to reform the industry, no policy to help the gambling addicted. He has nothing……………….”

    http://www.cyenne.com/discussion/abbotts-pre-commitment-prediction/

  174. I forgot to add, small clubs are exempt.

    I like pokies but have not notice many of the machines that allow big bets, are found in small clubs.

    These are found in the mega clubs, which resemble casinos. I do not like casinos. They are too cold, the same for big clubs.

  175. Wilkie supports simpler $1 maximum bet option

    http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2011/s3348923.htm

    Independent MP Andrew Wilkie says restricting all poker machines to a maximum bet of $1 would be a simpler solution than having mandatory pre-commitment on high-intensity machines.

    TONY JONES: Now, do you agree that politics is the art of the possible?

    ANDREW WILKIE: (Laughs) Yes, I do agree with that. I think it is the art of the possible. And that’s why although I started out in my negotiation with Julia Gillard and Tony Abbott after the election last year pushing for a $1 maximum bet limit on all poker machines in the country, I was prepared to reach a negotiated position which is that mandatory pre-commitment be fitted to high-intensity poker machines, plus we have $1 maximum bet, low-intensity machines outside of mandatory pre-commitment.

    Therefore the $1 maximum bet, low-intensity machines won’t be part of mandatory pre-commitment. Surely that shouldn’t be a problem for clubs and pubs.

    Meanwhile the Sydney Morning Herald reports that:-

    Clubs and hotels have spent $2 million on their campaign and say they have another $9 million to spend.

    If the Clubs are prepared to spend that amount on their fight they must have a few billion to gain on problem gamblers !

  176. Lib could throw PM lifeline on mine tax

    http://www.smh.com.au/national/lib-could-throw-pm-lifeline-on-mine-tax-20111026-1mk8t.html


    THE Liberal backbencher Mal Washer says he could support Labor’s mining profits tax, giving the Gillard government a potentially crucial vote as it seeks to get the controversial measure through Parliament.

    Tony Abbott has said the Coalition will oppose the tax and repeal it if it becomes law, but Dr Washer told the Herald: ”I think an appropriately applied mining tax is a very good thing.”

    Dr Washer’s support could be crucial as Labor faces conflicting demands, with the Greens and some crossbench independents arguing the tax should raise more revenue, but the Tasmanian independent Andrew Wilkie is considering moving amendments sought by smaller miners that could reduce its estimated return of $11 billion over the first three years.

  177. Wilkie slams Abbott’s pokie stance

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-10-26/wilkie-slams-abbott27s-pokie-comments/3601396

    Last night Mr Abbott told a rally of more than 1,000 people at the Campbelltown RSL in south-western Sydney that problem gambling was an individual issue which can be dealt with by counselling.

    In statement today, Mr Wilkie described Mr Abbott’s stance as a “very disappointing exhibition”.

    “Mr Abbott is showing no respect for the hundreds of thousands of Australians touched by poker machine problem gambling, no respect for the Productivity Commission, and no respect for the Australian community who support genuine poker machine reform,” he said.

    “Mr Abbott fails to understand that 95,000 Australian problem gamblers lose some $5 billion each year on the pokies.

    “Mr Abbott fails to understand that the implementation of mandatory pre-commitment on high intensity poker machines is a recommendation of the Productivity Commission.

    “Mr Abbott fails to understand that poll after poll shows majority public support for these reforms.”

  178. Miglo, would he know what a policy is.

    One has to put the effort in to develop policy.

    I believe he showed laziness as a minister in all his portfolios he held.

    From Pip’s comment, it appears that the Opposition backbench is capable of crossing the floor.

    Try as I might, I cannot think of much that he achieved, except buying a hospital without any plans as to what he was going to do with it.

    A mess that was left up to Labor to sort out.

    Oh and denying woman a the right to have the option of procedure for an abortion. Which by the way, is something that few woman take lightly.

  179. When Tony Abbott bleats about the ‘loss of jobs’ has he considered the estimated $5billion that problem gamblers have lost on the pokies and thus have taken out of the ecomony. Where did that $5billion go? On jobs creation..minimal.

  180. Via Sky News: Liberal Mal Washer has mooted that he may cross the floor on both the poker machine legislation and the mining tax.

  181. From Sue’s link
    “None of us ever want to witness such scenes again, which is why my government worked with Prime Minister Gillard’s to develop a means of stopping the people traffickers – what became known as the ”Malaysian solution”.”

    Someone should tell the Malaysian PM that we had a system that worked until Labor and its supporters dismantled it.

    We went from 6 people in detention to 6,000 just by changing some laws. Ironic that Bob Browns govt has the record for the most people in detention. Would not surprise me if Brown also has the record for the most suicides in immigration detention.

    Here are some pictures of the usual outcomes of most ALP policies.

    http://photoblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/04/21/6506423-rioters-set-fire-to-australian-detention-center

  182. Neil, we didn’t have a system that worked – we had a system which was made unlawful by TWO decisions of the High Court.

  183. Min- that is not true. it worked until Rudd dismantled the Pacific Solution.

    In fact it worked for years. How come no-one took the Pacific Solution to the High Court??

    It was the malaysian fiasco that promoted people to do something. Who wants to get involved in people trading??

    Labor was also going to photograph the refugees as they were boarding the plane that were going to be sent to Malaysia and post them on Youtube. Disgusting.

  184. Nil ;”Someone should tell the Malaysian PM that we had a system that worked until Labor and its supporters dismantled it.”

    That person is either Scott Morrison and Tony Abbott , and the Malaysian PM has heard exactly what they have been pedaling in our press. What an embarrassment to this country. Thank goodness neither is at CHOGM.
    Have a read again Nil,

    “Over the past few months, a great deal has been written about both the solution and Malaysia itself, much of it ill-informed and based on politics rather than sober analysis of the facts.

    Because, despite what you may have heard from those who chose to attack my country,(INSET SCOTT MORRISON TONY ABBOTT) Malaysia is not some repressive, backward nation that persecutes refugees and asylum seekers

    Today, Malaysia is home to almost 178,000 refugees, stateless persons and other ”people of concern” to the United Nations, more than seven times as many as you’ll find in Australia.

    Just over 10 years ago, the chaotic Tampa affair showed what happens when nations fail to work with each other and instead try to act unilaterally to tackle a problem such as illegal immigration.”

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/people-trafficking-a-trade-in-human-misery-that-must-be-stopped-20111026-1mjzk.html#ixzz1bvkLbvla

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/people-trafficking-a-trade-in-human-misery-that-must-be-stopped-20111026-1mjzk.html#ixzz1bvjxRKZK

    And Scott Morison even went to Malaysia stood outside a building cameras running and embarrassed our country.

  185. Some good news for the electors of Rob Oakshott

    ‘MORE cancer patients now can have radiotherapy without leaving the area, thanks a second high-tech machine.

    A second linear accelerator is operational at Port Macquarie’s North Coast Cancer Institute, which has significantly increased the number of patients it can treat.

    Almost all Hastings and Macleay residents requiring radiotherapy will now be able to have their treatment in Port Macquarie.

    The federal government provided $4.8 million for the second linear accelerator.’

    http://www.portnews.com.au/news/local/news/general/48m-port-cancerfighting-machine-starts/2335283.aspx

  186. Sue, that’s great news. My cousin’s grandson has to travel from Hobart to the Royal Children’s Hospital Melbourne for treatment for leukemia, all at great stress and cost to the family. Anything which enhances treatment for country patients gets full marks.

  187. OPI accuses Sir Ken Jones of involvement in plot with Minister’s adviser

    http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/more-news/bugs-reveal-tristan-westons-secret-talks-with-sir-ken-jones/story-fn7x8me2-1226177702556

    UPDATE 10.33am: SIR Ken Jones was today accused of being involved in a conspiracy to offer inducements to Police Minister Peter Ryan to persuade him to support the withdrawal of Sir Ken’s resignation.
    The Office of Police Integrity accused Government adviser Tristan Weston of instigating the plot, which also allegedly involved police union boss Greg Davies.

    It said Mr Weston, who was an adviser to Mr Ryan at the time, told Sir Ken that Sen-Sgt Davies had brokered a deal whereby, if the Government accepted the withdrawal of Sir Ken’s resignation, the Police Association would soften its approach to a number of industrial relations issues of concern to the Government.

    Mr Ryan has already told the OPI that Mr Weston’s actions were a sackable offence and amounted to a “dreadful breach of trust”.

  188. Sue, isn’t it interesting that the Nationals are beside themselves because people voted for Independent Rob Oakeshott, who has managed to achieve great results for his electorate.
    They obviously decided he was a more reliable advocate in the Parliament.

    I’d be interested to know what the Nationals have done for this same electorate in the past.

  189. Neil, the system was proven illegal.

    Mr. Howard was lucky to get away with it.

    The reason was that under Howard, refugees were isolated from the courts and media.

    They were unable to exercise their legal rights to question Mr. Howard’s policies.

    Refugees were prevented from exercising their human and legal rights.

    That might be unimportant to some, but not to me.

    Neil, that is why all the experts are saying Nauru cannot work. It will only be a expensive and inefficient way of dealing with the so called problem.

  190. Pip
    After reading your article, it makes you think about the rather good outcome in wage negotiations for the Vic police.
    Teachers, nurses, fireman start digging for dirt, it may be your best way of negotiation for better wages.

  191. At least there is one Coalition MP who isn’t intimidated by Tony Abbott.

    Mal Washer (and Bob Katter) may support mining tax

    http://www.thepowerindex.com.au/power-move/mal-washer-and-bob-katter-may-support-mining-tax/20111026618?utm_source=The+Power+Index&utm_campaign=5028e36f06-The_Power_Daily_27_Oct_2011&utm_medium=email

    WA Liberal backbencher Mal Washer has caused a stir by announcing that he may cross the floor and support Julia Gillard’s mining tax. The Libs won’t be happy with his intervention, but neither will they be surprised. Long-time Washer watchers know he’s a man who goes his own way.

    In 2005 the former doctor led a backbencher push that eventually forced John Howard to allow a conscience vote on the controversial abortion drug RU486.

    A year later, he did the same for therapeutic cloning. At the time he criticised Tony Abbott, who was then health minister, for “mischievously” implying that animal cells would be grafted into humans. Therapeutic cloning was eventually legalised (as was RU486).

    Washer has also argued for a conscience vote on gay marriage.

    Now the Liberal moderate, who will retire at the next election, has the miners in his sights.

    “I could potentially support a mining tax if it is reasonable because we need to take some profits out of the mining industry to assist industries that are struggling in this country,” he told The Sydney Morning Herald yesterday.WA Liberal backbencher Mal Washer has caused a stir by announcing that he may cross the floor and support Julia Gillard’s mining tax. The Libs won’t be happy with his intervention, but neither will they be surprised. Long-time Washer watchers know he’s a man who goes his own way.

    In 2005 the former doctor led a backbencher push that eventually forced John Howard to allow a conscience vote on the controversial abortion drug RU486.

    A year later, he did the same for therapeutic cloning. At the time he criticised Tony Abbott, who was then health minister, for “mischievously” implying that animal cells would be grafted into humans. Therapeutic cloning was eventually legalised (as was RU486).

    Washer has also argued for a conscience vote on gay marriage.

    Now the Liberal moderate, who will retire at the next election, has the miners in his sights.

    “I could potentially support a mining tax if it is reasonable because we need to take some profits out of the mining industry to assist industries that are struggling in this country,” he told The Sydney Morning Herald yesterday.

  192. Pip some more on Tony and his threats

    “Opposition Leader Tony Abbott has publicly rebuked one of his backbenchers, Mal Washer, who says he may support the Government’s mining tax when it comes before Parliament.

    Mr Abbott says he has not spoken to Dr Washer about his comments, but “there would be lots of people who would be letting Mal know that he’s on his Pat Malone in the West,” Mr Abbott told Macquarie radio.

    “Mal’s a good bloke and a smart bloke and I’m sure he’s going to get the message one way or another.”

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-10-27/liberal-mp-could-back-mining-tax/3603712

  193. The whole “success” of the Pacific Solution depended on its shock value at the time, a time of terrorists everywhere, sneaking up on YOU!!! if Mr Howard & his mob were to be believed. Eventual appeals through the legal system have largely neutered this effect to the point where Nauru would be viewed by potential arrivals as simply a staging post on the way to Australia.
    As part of his attack from the Left strategy Abbott has sung the praises of Nauru as a pretty good place actually, probably a lot better than where you are now.
    But as with all Abbott’s policies, what he ordains will happen & the boats will be stopped meaning the erstwhile boat people will end up in other countries in the region.
    Which countries? A clue, one of them starts with “M”.

  194. The girl with the pearl necklace speaks up…….for herself.

    Rinehart speaks out on labour shortages, red tape

    http://www.thepowerindex.com.au/power-move/rinehart-speaks-out-on-labor-shortages-red-tape/20111026619?utm_source=The+Power+Index&utm_campaign=5028e36f06-The_Power_Daily_27_Oct_2011&utm_medium=email

    Whenever Australia’s richest person speaks, people listen. And so it was when billionaire rock kicker Gina Rinehart warned of an upcoming labour shortage at the Commonwealth Business Forum in Perth yesterday.

    The WA Chamber of Commerce and Industry has estimated the state will need an additional 450,000 workers over the next ten years, a forecasted shortfall of more than 200,000 workers, according to reports in The Australian.

    This is what she was saying in 2008, although I don’t remember whether she mentioned it to former Treasurer Costello….

    The head of Hancock Propecting tells Canberra to get Australian ports in shape.

    http://www.abc.net.au/local/stories/2008/12/05/2438750.htm

  195. Pip
    I wonder if Simon Overland can take any action against the Bailleau govt. Overland resigned but his name went through the mud thanks to Weston and Tilley.

    “Mr Strong said Mr Weston hated Mr Overland and pursued his own political agenda, whether or not it accorded with the views of Mr Ryan.

    ‘‘Having failed to gain parliamentary office, he found himself in a position of power and influence no new member of parliament could have dreamt of and he simply did not know where to draw the line, or much care,’’ Mr Strong said.”

    Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/lied-leaked-and-abused-power-government-adviser-resigns-may-be-charged-20111027-1mkyt.html#ixzz1bwnyVVMW

  196. “Sue, isn’t it interesting that the Nationals are beside themselves because people voted for Independent Rob Oakeshott, who has managed to achieve great results for his electorate.”

    Hopefully the people of Lyne have learnt the error of their ways and will vote him out at the next election.

    Shows what Labor will do and spend to win and election.

    I do not think the people of Lyne have been bought. At least I hope not.

  197. Neil

    The independents negotiated with both Labor and the Coalition in regards to forming a government and apparently Tony Abbott was happy to give them whatever they wanted as well. They sided with Labor becuase they believed they could trust Julia more than they could trust Tony and I would agree with them.

    As for the claims that the independents are pork barreling for their electorates, I thought that all local members fought for gains for their electorates. Otherwise why on earth would you vote for them. Local members of the major parties squeal with delight to report every dollar spent in their electorate. The independents negotiate to get great outcomes for their own electorates with both Labour and the Coalition and are later branded crooks and rogues by the conservative side politics.

    I certainly hope the independents have the balance of power at the next election, and I hope that all independents who are elected remember the terrible treatment and slander on their reputations and integrity the current ones have received from the coalition.

  198. Neil, you do carry on,

    the people of Lyne are being treated to some worthwhile projects which the Nationals couldn’t manage under the Howard government.
    The people of Lyne chose an Independent for a better outcome and they have received it.

    Meanwhile wasting time fuming because their dear leader wasn’t convincing enough to gain the top job, instead of genuinely scrutinising policies and making a constructive contribution to the Parliament they are campaigning in a ‘down and dirty’, astro-turfing sort of way.

    from Crikey …..

    Port Paper company collapses after Oakeshott cries foul

    http://www.yourdemocracy.net.au/drupal/node/13423

    Crikey senior journalist Andrew Crook writes:

    NATIONALS, PORT PAPER, ROB OAKESHOTT

    The holding company of a purportedly “independent newspaper” set up by National Party staffers to secretly attack Lyne MP Rob Oakeshott under the cover of journalistic impartiality has collapsed.

    An administration notice for the notorious Port Paper’s parent company, Australian News & Media, was published in The Australian’s company notices section this morning, however its significance appears to have eluded the national broadsheet’s news editors.

    The Port Paper’s homepage is now blank, with the paper’s individual stories attacking Oakeshott stating instead that the site “is currently undergoing redevelopment”.

    One notorious yarn penned by the paper’s editor Sharon Davidson — a very recent staffer of the Nationals’ Cowper MP Luke Hartsuyker — that claimed Oakeshott was unpopular based on flawed polling has vanished. As Crikey explained last month, the polling was picked up by The Daily Telegraph and run as a straight news item under the headline ‘Poll shocker for MP Rob Oakeshott as support plunges’.

    Davidson was recently in the news after it was revealed she was hired to work as a spin doctor for disgraced north coast state MP Steve Cansdell shortly before the state election.

    .

  199. Shane
    I certainly hope the independents have the balance of power at the next election, and I hope that all independents who are elected remember the terrible treatment and slander on their reputations and integrity the current ones have received from the coalition.

    I hope so too.

  200. “Hopefully the people of Lyne have learnt the error of their ways and will vote him out at the next election.”

    yes it is terrible that the people of Lyne have received services that will help cancer patients in the region. obviously nil of sydney only knows of the services available to a city dweller and has no thought of what country people have to endure.

    the services are available to all, not just those unwise independent voters.

    keep up the stupidity of your argument nil, so enlightening as to the workings of the liberal mind.

  201. Shane and Pip, I will second that.

    There is also the fact that members of the coalition are falling over themselves to try to get the NBN in their own electorates. Windsor said 3 things, more likely to run a full term, more likely to fulfill promises plus policies, especially the NBN.

  202. Pip
    that paper has not only collapsed but is under investigation. just check out the involvement of luke hatsuyker.

  203. Min,
    not only are the Coalition MPs falling over themselves, some have even turned up at the opening of Labor projects !

  204. Sue,
    paper’s editor Sharon Davidson — a very recent staffer of the Nationals’ Cowper MP Luke Hartsuyker

    Caught red-handed …..

  205. I see my fan club is out in force.

    Windsor was never going to side with the Coalition.

    He is by nature untrustworthy and therefore is more suitable in the ALP.

    Its funny. If it was Abbott who gave Windsor and Oakshot stuff you would be saying he was trying to buy the election.

    I think truth for you people is very fluid. Depends on who is in power and handing out the pork.

  206. Govt adviser and parly secretary quit

    http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/govt-adviser-and-parly-secretary-quit-20111027-1mkwr.html

    Victorian Police Minister Peter Ryan’s parliamentary secretary and an adviser to the minister have quit their positions in the wake of a damning report from the police watchdog.

    The report by Office of Police Integrity director Michael Strong said former adviser to the minister Tristan Weston lied to Mr Ryan, leaked information to the media and had a completely inappropriate relationship with then deputy commissioner Sir Ken Jones, who was highly critical of his then boss, chief commissioner Simon Overland.

    Bill Tilley, parliamentary secretary for police, who said he considered Mr Weston a friend and shared his view Mr Overland was bad for Victoria Police, also quit.

    and

    Mr Ryan refused to disclose how much taxpayer’s money Mr Weston had been paid since taking leave from June 6.

    The government also paid Mr Weston’s legal fees.

    Mr Baillieu rejected suggestions Mr Tilley should quit parliament, saying MPs were entitled to their views.

    The coalition holds government in Victoria with a one-seat majority.

    Mr. Bailleau would be demanding the resignation from politics if Mr. Tilley was a Labor MP.

  207. Neil

    “I think truth for you people is very fluid. Depends on who is in power and handing out the pork.”

    Pot calling kettle black there Neil.

    I can criticise both sides of politics, you lack that basic ability.

  208. From Twitter fuelling leadership rumours…..:grin:

    Thefinnigans TheFinnigans天地有道人无道
    by auspoltragic

    A Senior Lib source has told #Twitter that Turnbull has not spoken to support Abbott on pokies comment fuels further leadership talk

  209. “I do not think the people of Lyne have been bought. At least I hope no”

    Neil, I think you might find out it is not about being bought, it is about who get the best results for them.

    We have a up coming State by election in the same region. We have the Nationals claiming health and eduction improvements that the previous Labor and the Federal government provided. Is that fair.

    Maybe the voters will go with what is before their eyes, not what the Opposition is saying.

    Maybe they will stand by the MP that put their interest first.

    Neil, you never know, maybe they like to be bought off.

    The trouble is that when a bribe is offered, one has to trust the bribe will be delivered.

    Yes, Min, they are also turning up to the openings of these facilities, that have been supplied by Labor.

  210. Neil, Windsor would be the straightest shooter in Parliament.

    Abbott did offer Oakeshott and Windsor ‘stuff’ but they both told Abbott to stuff it where the sun doesn’t shine. As the Independents have stated everyone would be very very surprised about exactly what Tony Abbott did offer them..all will be revealed in due course.

  211. I believe there was also an opening of new work on the Pacific Highway this week by Mr. Albanese.

    I also believe the people in the region deserve to have their facilities bought up to date.

    Now Neil, I could have sympathy with your view, if you can direct me to any improvements that were not badly needed.

    Pork barrelling to me means that a government provides facilities to an electorate that are not necessary to buy votes.

    What is happening in the region is that the neglect of the Howard years is being addressed.

  212. Neil, also of importance is that both campaigned for action on climate change. They were keeping faith with their mandate.

  213. Min,
    Tony Windsor made it fairly clear that he knew Abbott had no interest in allowing Parliament to go the full term but would have called an early election.

    IMHO that shows that Abbott has no respect for the voters unless they
    vote for the Liberals, and Windsor wouldn’t have any part of that.

    Abbott has no respect for anything except his ‘vocation’.

  214. Min @ 6.19am,

    When Tony Abbott bleats about the ‘loss of jobs’ has he considered the estimated $5billion that problem gamblers have lost on the pokies and thus have taken out of the ecomony. Where did that $5billion go? On jobs creation..minimal.

    Christian lobby attacks Tony Abbott over poker machine reform

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/christian-lobby-attacks-tony-abbott-over-poker-machine-reform/story-fn59niix-1226178467280

    TONY Abbott has drawn rare criticism from the Australian Christian Lobby over his plan to axe Labor’s poker machine reforms if he wins government.
    The influential lobby group today urged the Opposition Leader – a committed Catholic and former trainee priest – to rethink his rejection of the mandatory pre-commitment scheme and commit to a trial of the technology.

    ACL managing director Jim Wallace said Mr Abbott’s stance was “disappointing”.

    He said the proposed scheme, which would allow poker machine players to set the maximum amount they were prepared to lose, should not be dismissed out of hand.

    “I think it is about compassion and it is an issue of social justice,” Mr Wallace said.

    “I am concerned that vested interests such as (James) Packer’s Crown Casino, the clubs industry and state governments addicted to poker machine revenue are having undue influence in this debate.

  215. Pip re the Indies, there was also the component of self-interest. Only once in a blue moon might Independents have this degree of influence – the Independents have every reason in the world for this government to run it’s full term. Which makes Abbott’s bleats for a new election all that more pathetic.

  216. Thanks to the opposition and the media indies could become a thing of the past. Any indie that sided with Labor, that is. Katter is safe because he went with the Lib’s.

    Anal Jones proved the point. He launched Oakeshott’s election campaign and had him booked to appear on his talk show. That was until he went with Labor, then Jones cancelled his appearance. He’s hung him out to dry and every opportunity since. It surely must be having a negative effect.

    It also reveals a lot about Jones. And none of it is good.

  217. “Tony Windsor made it fairly clear that he knew Abbott had no interest in allowing Parliament to go the full term”

    You people never change. It was like this on dunlops blog. Accusations with no evidence. You invent people that don’t exist and then proclaim how bad your invention is.

    “As the Independents have stated everyone would be very very surprised about exactly what Tony Abbott did offer them..all will be revealed in due course.”

    Lets hope so. It was the same with Howard. All will be revealed. Except 4 years latter no evidence of Howard govt corruption has been revealed. We have the current foreign minister now in Downers old office. Rudd should have access to all the alleged AWB crimes.

    Rudd hasn’t said anything because there is nothing to say.

    The ALP and its supporters are just bearers of false witness.

  218. Oh deary me Neil, you forget that a good portion of us here are ex Tim Dunlop’s Blogocracy and what did Tim always always say, 2 things: no lengthy copy and pastes and ALWAYS do you have a link for that, that is always be prepared to cite your sources.

    Julia Gillard responds to list of demands from independents in bid to form government

    Prime Minister Julia Gillard has given a written guarantee to run a full three-year term..

    http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/special-reports/andrew-wilkie-ahead-in-denison-slams-independents-party-of-three/story-fn5ko0pw-1225909790498

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