Media Watch VIII

Just how manipulative, dishonest, sensationalist, gutless, unfair and unbalanced is the media in this country? If, like me, you believe they need to be held accountable for the gross display of injustice they push down the throats of the Australian public then this is the thread in which to voice your opinion.

I intend to keep the Media Watch threads open indefinitely. If anyone sees an example of their lies in action then we’d like to learn about it. We will document everything we can and spread the message as far as we can.

The truth will win in the end.

The Media Watch pages are archived after 300 comments (or thereabouts), as beyond that they can be slow to open if accessed by some mobile phones.

Here are the links to the previous three Media Watch discussions:

Media Watch VI

Media Watch VII

352 comments on “Media Watch VIII

  1. Just say, I pretended to be a best friend to one of my Liberal Party colleagues (let’s call him Neil) and I go out of my way to encourage him to run for a senior position in our party. I shake his hand and pledge him my support. When it comes down to the crunch (i.e. a vote) I cast the deciding vote against him. Not only do I behave like Judas Iscariot, but I make sure the media knows about my betrayal thus rubbing salt into his wound.
    I am safe because the media will not carry on about this and my other best friend, Nick, knows that I have done as I was told.

  2. Latest stunt by Abbott:

    Abbott calls for joint trip on live export trade
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/06/26/3253828.htm?section=justin

    My goodness as if Gillard would take Abbott anywhere, particularly after he embarrassed himself and therefore the Nation in front of the Prime Minister of NZ.
    Can someone please show him the footage of that episode.

    Back to the stunts. Abbott must now be living by the creed a stunt a day helps keep the MSM to stay.

    Oh no, Abbott is now running with the bulls. No shit.
    Channel 9 news

  3. Sue re “My goodness as if Gillard would take Abbott anywhere..”.

    My feelings too..can’t take him anywhere without running the risk of embarrassment…

  4. Huge story on SBS regarding Rio Tinto, BCL and the war in Bouganville in2001. Full story on Dateline tonight.

    Julie Bogan Ville Bishop may have to come out and defend her friends the WA miners Rio Tinto in regards to their involvement in directing the PNG government during the war.

  5. J. Bishop is ‘surprisingly’ shadow Foreign Minister – what exactly has she been doing. Why didn’t she visit Nauru with Abbott and Morrison. And Why isn’t she going to Malaysia with Morrison?

    Surely as alternative Foreign Minister she would have been included as part of the team. If not/why not.

  6. Min J. Bishop thinks Bougainville is about leadership tensions and who lives at the Lodge in Canberra, a real Sarah Palin moment for her.

  7. re yabot and his bull, wasn’t morrison supposed to be over at Malaysia htis weekend?

    what happened to that.

    How friggin difficault would it be for those actually trying to work out a way forward in this with yabot running his mouth off over there?

  8. Tom R
    There was footage of Morrisson and some barbed wire but he didn’t have an entourage with him, so had to do the story on the cheap.
    Min
    Bishop couldn’t travel to Malaysia because she was at the liberal presidency thing. Maybe she stuck her knife in Reith as well, right next to Abbott’s machete

  9. The assassination of Reith is not only a source of interest to me. It is also on Sky and in News

    ‘Liberal MPs in heated row after torrid vote over party presidency’

    Read more: http://www.news.com.au/national/liberal-mps-in-heated-row-after-torrid-vote-over-party-presidency/story-e6frfkw9-1226082265809#ixzz1QNFSJuHo

    Reith supporters have told news.com.au that Mr Abbott had assured his former colleague in the Howard government he had his support over Mr Stockdale
    On Friday night senior NSW Liberal Bill Heffernan came to the function for Senator Minchin at The Boathouse restaurant – without being sent an RSVP – and during the evening began heckling the guest of honour.

    “There was a confrontation involving Senator Heffernan, South Australian Senator Cory Bernardi, and one of the function organisers during which an invitation to step into the car park was extended.

    It was not taken up.”

    A bit of possible biffo, no wonder Neil was upset he must have had the inside knowledge.

  10. Did not Mr. Abbott use all his overseas fare entitlements when he transferred them to Mr. Morrison for his visit to Malaysia.

    Who would pay his fare if PM Gillard was stupid enough to take him along.

    Has anyone have a copy of the speech Mr. Abbott made when the NZ Prime Minister addressed both houses of parliament.

    I believe he was out of order and embarrassing.

  11. The story of the assassination of Reith keeps on getting better and better. Com’on Neil tell us the goss, we you in the carpark when the biff started.

  12. Sue, so exactly what has J. Bishop done as shadow foreign minister? She didn’t go to Nauru and she isn’t going to Malaysia. Where has she gone…..

  13. She went with Gina and Barnaby to a wedding in India.
    She probably wore her pearls and had time to do some shopping for that bright pink top. The one she wore when she became Julie bogan ville Bishop.

    But i suppose that trip should be classified as private as she went with her mining mate gina.

    Maybe Foreign Affairs isn’t quite her thing.

  14. Catching up @ 7.58pm, here’s the transcript of the welcome by the Speaker, the Prime Minister, and the Leader of the Opposition, [ the very embarrassing leader of the Opposition ].
    He just can’t help himself throwing in highly political comment at the end of his welcome, which is not the done thing, not that he gives a hoot.

    This was followed by a reply by the NZ Prime Minister, Mr. John Key.

    Just scroll down past the indexes.

    http://www.aph.gov.au/hansard/reps/dailys/dr200611.pdf

  15. Even Abbott’s own side can’t trust him:-

    http://www.theage.com.au/national/abbott-deceived-reith-on-bid-for-liberal-presidency-20110626-1glt4.html

    TONY Abbott is being accused by senior Liberals of deceiving Peter Reith over the Liberal presidency as well as humiliating him by effectively making public his vote for Alan Stockdale.

    Supporters of Mr Reith – who at the weekend lost 56-57 to Mr Stockdale – insist Mr Reith was encouraged to run by Mr Abbott. If Mr Abbott had voted the other way, Mr Reith would have won.

  16. Sue @ 6.05pm and Min @ 6.18pm 26th, if the PM took Abbott anywhere she’d have to go back to apologise. :grin:

    luna-lava @ 6.11pm and 6.32pm, I hope he does…
    and re cunning stunts malapropisms, you’d best be careful. :oops:

  17. Abbott rejects costings offer
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/06/26/3253862.htm

    If I were him I would steer clear of any mention of costings !

    Coalition’s “auditors” stilll under investigation

    http://www.petermartin.com.au/2011/05/coalitions-auditors-still-under.html

    Ahead of tonight’s Budget in Reply speech the Institute of Chartered Accountants has revealed that the two Perth accountants who advised Tony Abbott on the $50 billion of savings he put forward in the last election remain under investigation.

    Geoff Kidd and Cyrus Patell of WHK Horwath signed a statement endorsing the Coalition’s costings released two days before the 2010 election despite promising the Coalition in a separate letter to make no inquires about “the reasonableness of otherwise of the assumptions used”.

    A later examination by Treasury found up to $11 billion of errors in the costings including double-counting and purporting to spend money from funds already allocated.

    Institute chief executive Graham Meyer told the Herald the pair were still under investigation eight months after the Institute received a complaint, saying the process had taken longer than expected.

    The Institute began investigating Mr Kidd and Mr Patell in August after Sydney University accountancy professor Bob Walker alleged they had breached both auditing and ethical standards by allowing their work to be described as an audit when it was not…

    Shadow Treasurer Hockey repeatedly described the work as an audit in the lead up to the election, saying later he had used the word “as would be understood in laymen’s terms”.

    The ABC can usually be relied on to report in lock-step with the ltd news but they missed this from The Australian.

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/julia-gillard-to-tony-abbott-cost-your-tax-cuts/story-fn59niix-1226082408452

    Ms Gillard confirmed yesterday that seven million Australians would receive tax cuts, pension rises or more generous family payments to offset the price increases caused by the carbon tax.

    “The vast majority of people we assist actually won’t pay any price because of the assistance they receive,” the Prime Minister said.

    On Saturday, Mr Abbott pledged to introduce lower taxes and to help parents raise children by simplifying the family benefits payment system.

    Mr Abbott said his promises were conditional on future budget
    surpluses, but unlike Ms Gillard’s, were not tied to a carbon tax.

    Mr. Abbott’s “promises are conditional”. That would be “non-core” I suppose.

  18. Was Mr. Abbott correct when he said that NZ PM Keys had watered down the NZ climate change laws.

    It was my impression that this was another example of Mr. Abbott’s misinformation/lies campaign.

    Mr. Abbott’s promises are conditional on whether he can find the magic pudding or if he can perform a miracle similar to the loaves and fishes.

    As he is not a miracle worker and the magic pudding is a fairy tale, his promises are worthless, whether he has written them down or not.

  19. Pip @ 3.07am and Shadow Treasurer Hockey repeatedly described the work as an audit in the lead up to the election, saying later he had used the word “as would be understood in laymen’s terms”.

    And doesn’t that one live in infamy, Hockey stating that it wasn’t really an audit, but that he just kept using the word ‘audit’ so that people would understand…umm err..that it really wasn’t an audit? :mrgreen:

  20. CU, I can’t find any references to John Key ‘watering down’ NZ’s ETS just Abbott’s statement that he did so. As Abbott’s statements have contained no factual information whatsoever of what exactly any ‘watering down’ might have been, the conclusion could be that it was typical Abbott being rude to a guest and trying to score politicially.

  21. (Mr. Abbott’s “promises are conditional”. That would be “non-core” I suppose.

    No, tax cuts are in the DNA, apparently; and only the Liberal Party’s legacy model of tax reform is comprehensive in opposition, to and for the economic cycle…

    “The next Coalition government will build on the Howard legacy of reducing personal income taxes for everyone and especially delivering a fair go for middle income families with children.

    But Mr Abbott admitted comprehensive tax reform could only be started from opposition.

    “Oppositions lack the resources to model and cost detailed and systematic tax changes,” he said.”

    Some might consider that kind of in-principle, self-starter approach a form of ideology untied to anything, really. But, to do so, might be to miss the chance to characterize the engrossed Howard legacy as an automatic de-stabiliser, which makes the already good times appear bigger (hello surplus, and surplus of surplus, handed out as surplus, in return for, and expectation of, more surplus ad infinitum), while leaving ideological and structural deficit for the inevitable and inevitably unexpected bust (hello surplus churn model breakage), and a very principled opposition to doing anything about bust conditions (but we gave tax cuts out in a surplus, and all youse people do is get Australia into heaps of debt in a GFC).

    And, that might just be describing the Howard, and now Abbott, legacy, even the whole neocon/neoliberal enterprise, and its (un)intentional past, present, and future operations vis-a-vis prudent fiscal conservatism across the whole cycle; and the true genius of Abbott’s anticipation of an already-forecast return to surplus, and a self-cast return to power, in similar time-frame; to do it Ponzi-style all again, because it’s in the DNA. Perhaps.)

  22. (Oops, my bad, Abbott appears to have already debunked that model-of-model…

    “Labor’s tax cut won’t even be robbing Peter to pay Paul,” he said.

    “It will be taking money out of one pocket to put some of it back in the other.

    “Our tax cut by contrast will be a permanent reduction in the size of government to fund a permanent increase in people’s prosperity.”

    He also says people will not be fooled by the Government’s argument that he would be taking money away from people by scrapping that compensation.

    “They know that a tax reduction to compensate for a tax increase is not a cut, but a con,” he said.)

  23. This sounds as though not only the Coalition’s “auditors” of the election promises are a bit dodgy but the Liberal party itself.

    Mr Yabsley argued the job of fundraiser should be a paid position. He said yesterday: “I think there is a pretty good chance that if the Australian Securities & Investments Commission were to take a close look at the Liberal Party, there would be some serious questions.”

    He said the problems included “issues as specific as the salary of the federal director” along with “serious operational matters such as the availability of management accounts to the finance committee and the vice-presidents of the party”

    Call for party review as Lib vote fails to heal split
    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/call-for-party-review-as-lib-vote-fails-to-heal-split/story-fn59niix-1226082405247

  24. I note sheridan is towing the ulman line in lying about what is happening in America in regards to their emmissions trading

    ‘The state-based initiatives for carbon pricing in the US are either collapsing or cover only a small section of the economy, with little impact.’

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/a-lethal-blow-for-government-scheme/story-fn59niix-1226082376158

    Sorry greg, but it truly looks like the schemes are growing over there, not collapsing

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Climate_Initiative

    There are links at the bottom to other emerging initiatives in regions around America.

    All of which are growing, in direct contradiction to sheridans tripe.

    But I can understand the lies coming from there, they are a tainted brand anyway without any regard for the truth. The taint by ulman is unforgivable.

  25. WorkChoices. Dead and buried. Don’t believe it.

    Why is Abbott so spooked by the WorkChoices bogyman?
    Peter Reith
    June 28, 2011

    http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/opinion/politics/why-is-abbott-so-spooked-by-the-workchoices-bogyman-20110627-1gne2.html#ixzz1QUB3La8K

    Labor market reform is too important to be left in the Liberal political closet.

    EVEN though I have spent many years as an activist promoting labour market reform, I promised Tony Abbott I would suspend my interest in this if I became federal president of the Liberal Party. I thought that was the best way I could support Abbott and the team and quietly encourage good policy.

  26. From your link Sue

    Personally, I’m all for policies that help regenerate declining regional centres and reduce the population pressure on Sydney and Melbourne and their creaking transport networks. You may disagree.

    Couched in those terms, how could abyone mount a reasonable argument against the NBN?

    I also commented the other day about some goose at the oo rabbitting on about the NBN being nothing but a big monopoly. It completely ignored the fact that that is precisely what we have now, except in the hands of a private company who is gouging all the other players (so in the end, us) for it’s own purposes.

    A major stuff up by howard, fixed by Labor

  27. Todays drivel in the oo

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/commentary/back-to-the-banana-republic/story-e6frgd0x-1226083032934

    But instead of easing these growth pains through a new wave of productivity reforms, Australia now risks a tax-cut auction aimed at middle-class swinging voters after Tony Abbott predictably refused to be trapped by Julia Gillard’s carbon tax play.
    ……….
    Abbott was never going to get trapped into asking voters to give money back, even if it compensates for a tax he would kill. So he has trumped Gillard by promising “a tax cut without a carbon tax”.

    OK, so yabot is justified in giving away profits from the mining boom because the PM is devious meanie??

    Nicely done though, if you prefer your economic advisory tightly coupled within a political ideology. In one fell swoop, he has given yabot a way out of paying for the tax (same as howard, when floating in cash, bribe the peasants), and blamed it all on that nasty Julia and her commie Green Tax. I get the feeling though that, come time for Labor to find the money, the rules will be a bit different from ‘she’ll be right’.

    But the Howard legacy from mining boom mark I was an overheated economy, rising inflation and higher interest rates as taxes were cut and family benefits pumped up without offsetting spending cuts.

    Hang on, I thought there was no inflation problem under the genius of tip costello? Whats this, history slowly being re=written to kind of resemble the truth?

    The Howard legacy also includes a hidden deterioration in the budget’s structural position even before Labor’s stimulus waste.

    Hang on, I thought a structural deficit was some mythical being made up by commies to make the howord years look bad? nil, help me out here??

    The irony is that the China-fuelled mining boom saved Australia from the global financial recession

    The irony is this is supposed to be one the oo’s lead economic writers. What a tool. I supposed he missed that little blip on the mining radar that showed that they had their own recession too along the same time the (on again, off again ) GFC washed over us, something that could well have grown larger, or lagged longer, had not the surrounding economy been propped up in the interim.

    Another beautiful piece of projection from a faithful media.

  28. ‘So he has trumped Gillard by promising “a tax cut without a carbon tax”.

    It was a cunning stunt by Gillard, but our boy is getting better advice.

  29. ‘but our boy is getting better advice.’

    As long as the gormless media play along, which as shown it will not only do, it will offer up the excuses for him.

  30. ‘Couched in those terms, how could abyone mount a reasonable argument against the NBN?’

    Out in the bush we are very happy with the NBN rollout, which is drip feed kudos for joolya.

    Now if she could just drop the tax on carbon dioxide….

  31. ‘Now if she could just drop the tax on carbon dioxide’

    Sorry, some live in a world of reality, where scientists drive the science, not blog sites of wannabees

  32. ‘….where scientists drive the science…’

    The science is not settled, dear boy, there is an alternative view of reality.

    As I’ve mentioned before, take away gubment grants for AGW research and global warming will evaporate.

  33. ‘The science is not settled’

    Amongst scientists, it is, for policy development purposes.

    ‘take away gubment grants for AGW research and global warming will evaporate.’

    Those incompetent scientists, here they were thinking it was all those greenhouse gases

  34. The science is settled. And one should consider the consequences. IF the warmists are wrong then the worst that could happen is a healthier planet with new industries developed including alternative energies. If the denialists are wrong, then we’re basically stuffed.

  35. What many are ignoring is that Mr. Abbott’s magic pudding tax cuts was not received in a positive manner by the business community.

    Any fool can make cuts if they ignore the harm they may have on the economy.They can do this easily if they are willing to let everything run down

    If you want to meet the needs of the people and the economy, cutting taxes becomes harder.

    Neil, I hate lies too, especially from people who believe anything goes, as the public are stupid.

  36. “Hang on, I thought there was no inflation problem under the genius of tip costello? Whats this, history slowly being ”

    If there was no inflation, why did we have eight interest rate rises in spite of surplus budgets?

  37. ‘If there was no inflation, why did we have eight interest rate rises in spite of surplus budgets?’

    It must have been because they knew there was going to be Carbon Tax!!! ;)

  38. Tom R @9.46 that must be because the RBA is full of lefties and “Leftoids go into professions where they can influence people.”(quote from Neil)
    So 8 interest rate rises had nothing to do with Costello/Howard running the place for 10 long years it was all those lefties who were hiding and waiting to influence people.

  39. A straight dob-in about inaccurate media reporting; Adelaide Channel 9 running what I thought was a balanced enough piece on the local NBN rollout but twice saying the cost to taxpayers would be $36 billion, according to what I can find about $8 billion more than the real taxpayer input. This is of course a virtually standard media error, but if a national broadcasting organisation can’t or won’t even get this right I fear for the country.

  40. From your link TomR

    “Rather than a $50bn deficit, the budget should be in surplus now given that the terms of trade are at record highs and the jobless rate is below 5 per cent.”

    Labor has had the benefit of the largest mining boom ever and the drought breaking.

    They just cannot keep their paws out of the cookie jar. they love to waste money.

  41. Actually it was the Liberal Party who had the benefit of the largest mining boom ever – show me all the nation-building. None. Instead what we received was the good old Howard-handout just in time for the next election. The Labor Party on the other hand walked into the GFC and several major natural disasters including the Brisbane flood.

  42. “Actually it was the Liberal Party who had the benefit of the largest mining boom ever ”

    Not true Min. It is comments like that why i never believe anything you people say. The mining boom started around 2004. They only got the benefit for the last three years. From 1996-2004 terms of trade was nothing special. And it is now bigger than ever. You can see from this link the massive increase in commodity prices

    http://www.rba.gov.au/chart-pack/commodity-prices.html

    And the Libs had the worst drought in our history to deal with.

    You know it is possible that the current ALP is just incompetent.

  43. ‘…one should consider the consequences. IF the warmists are wrong then the worst that could happen is…’

    The world will get cooler naturally, as it does on a slightly irregular basis, but if we have absentmindedly wandered into ‘tipping point’ (which we didn’t see coming because we were looking the other way) then the worst that could happen is that the growing season will be shorter.

    Not the end of the world, just buy wheat futures and prosper.

  44. Interesting article in the Drum by Mungo Maccullum, on Peter Reith he says:

    “A man of insatiable and ruthless ambition, he has admitted to carrying the field marshal’s baton in his knapsack and boasted of being “born to conspire” – unexceptional qualities in an unscrupulous politician, but not what you want in an impartial mediator at the top of a fractious group of backroom apparatchiks. Reith is also a media tart – he can’t help himself. And his utter lack of principle, while it did not hinder his parliamentary career, would not be so welcome in the more staid forums of the party elders.”

    Makes you wonder why Abbott knocked him off, they have so much in common.

    http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/2773278.html

  45. Lunlava,
    I think there will be more major conniptions behind the scenes, or not behind the scenes, in the Liberal party.

    Reith had the likes of Alexander Downer in his camp, another media tart, and I don’t believe they will allow their dream of reviving WorkChoices, by whatever name, to remain on the back-burner.

    Nick Minchin was also very disappointed over the loss of an election because of it, but he’s a wily fellow and I think he’s prepared to play the long game whereas Reith and company won’t wait too long.

  46. Work choices is marching back into NSW. Remember it was Abetz who said that only a few regulations needed to be changed to destroy Gillard’s work. And good old Barrel O’Farrel has done exactly that, changed a few regulations.
    NSW was blamed for Abbott not forming government, there were seats that the Libs had factored in as winning. I wonder how NSW will vote when the NSW teachers, nurses,fireman and public servants have all had their wages and conditions cut.
    In fact we could have an ad campaign with Abbott saying Trust me on Workchoices and O’Farrell in the background saying just as you trusted me.

  47. Thank you for that Luna. Mungo is a former neighbor when I was living at Billinudgel and he is such a sweetie. Oh yes, he has a brain too.

    And Julia Gillard handled the kerfuffle with grace and skill, resisting the temptation for both self-justification and gloating, determinedly facing, as always, forward.

    And this is something that you will not read about in the newspapers, how Julia Gillard handles all issues with grace and skill.

  48. Scott Morrison on the ABC 7.30 program talking about the Malaysian Refugee proposal reminded me of the story of the Walrus and the Carpenter:

    “The Walrus and the Carpenter were walking close at hand,
    They wept like anything to see such quantities of sand,
    If this were only cleared away, they said it would be grand.”

    He would get my vote for the biggest hypocrite so far this century.

    They say if you can fake sincerity, then you have really got it made.

    Scott, you have a lot of work to do on that smirk.

  49. Luna lava, thank you, I’ve been looking for the right word for Morrison, and ‘smirk’ will do nicely.

  50. More of Scott Morrison working on his deep concern for boat people:

    “I weep for you,” the Walrus said;
    “I deeply sympathize.”
    With sobs and tears he sorted out
    Those of the largest size,
    Holding his pocket-handkerchief
    Before his streaming eyes.

    The whole poem is at:
    http://www.poetry-online.org/carroll_walrus_and_the_carpenter.htm

    I used to read it to my children every night as a bed time story and as a warning not to trust tradespeople (or Walruses). Didn’t work as the daughter married a carpenter.

  51. Pip as a high level functioning dyslexic you never have to apologise to me for “bad” spelling. I used to be caned 5 times for every spelling mistake, some days I used to get 35 wrong out of 40 words. The caning never did make me a better speller but I did become very good at spotting hypocrites and people who liked canning little boys, but that’s another story.
    Oh yeah I was very good at maths and knew how much 5 times 35 was.

  52. Are lunalava things had changed by the time my daughter went to school.
    When she was in primary school the rule was if you got the spelling list correct for 2 weeks in a row then the list grew. Now this child was quite shrewd and for a whole year never progressed beyond the original length of a 10 word list.
    She was good at spotting false praise and people who are needful of recognition.

  53. Lunalava, spelling and English were my favourite subjects…. arithmetic on the other hand was pretty much like my typing !!
    ‘Orrible !

  54. This is not going to amuse Opposition Leader, Tony Abbott.

    http://www.news.com.au/business/you-can-bank-on-labors-carbon-pricing-scheme-nab-chief-executive-cameron-clyne-says/story-e6frfm1i-1226083666218

    THE Gillard Government’s plan to put a price on carbon and introduce an emissions trading scheme is “economically superior”, National Australia Bank chief executive Cameron Clyne says.

    The business leader made the comparison between Labor’s plan to the Coalition’s “direct action” policy for carbon abatement at a Melbourne business lunch today, The Australian reports.

    He said the government’s plan was superior because it would “drive certainty” and investment”.

  55. Thanks for the link Pip. I noted hat the article failed to use the word ‘tax’ even once when desribing the Governmnets scheme. Somebodies going to be getting raked over the coals at the ltdnews orifices.

    Which made me think of this post by Fran Barlow over at Pure Poison.

    http://blogs.crikey.com.au/purepoison/2011/06/27/open-thread-june-27-july-1/all-comments/#comment-56758

    Once this policy is in, I think we will see a dramatic turn about in hte polls. Must be tempting to try and rush it, so it is comforting that the PM is prepared to let it drag out if that is what it takes. It kind of supports a theory htat she is more interested in the policy rather than the politics.

  56. Tom, a very good pick-up by Fran. From Fran: Amusing sidebar: Chris Pyne accidentally said carbon price yesterday but quickly corrected himself to get back on message.

  57. pynes going to the naughty corner for that min (and probably loving it)

    I noted Fran commenting further down in the PP thread that theirabc(tos) manged to verbal the NAB chief and use the word tax.

    You know they have lost their way when ltdnews is more accurate and less partisan than theirabc(tos)

  58. Interesting article in the ABC’s DRUM:

    “Australia’s place in the global web of climate denial”

    “Climate sceptics, deniers, contrarians – call them what you like – are engaged in a fight for column inches, radio waves, TV talk-time and community sentiment.

    In Australia, the issue has turned decidedly unsavoury, with climate scientists revealing inboxes chock-full of hate and Government advisors being slurred as Nazis. ”

    the article goes on to say:

    “But as a memo from US Republican communications guru Frank Luntz revealed in 2003, the most important aspect of climate change denial is not to throw hate, but to sow doubt.

    Should the public come to believe that the scientific issues are settled, their views about global warming will change accordingly. Therefore, you need to continue to make the lack of scientific certainty a primary issue in the debate.

    Doubt is the product of the climate change denial industry – an industry which is tightly knit, well resourced and globally linked. ”

    http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/2775298.html

    Cafe Whispers has our own (he who cannot be named) sower of doubt. The next move will be to accuse those who are in favour of action on climate change, of sowing doubt, thus further confounding the issue.

  59. (Probably doable, lunalava; but, only as an assistance to determining if, and when, “…they may possibly be confuted by themselves, seeing that they themselves are included in the things to which their doubt applies, just as aperient drugs do not merely eliminate the humours from the body, but also expel themselves along with the humours”.)

  60. Very short visit, gone again in 5 but had to share this. You will find behind just about every AGW denier is big money but that is not the case for the proponents. There is far more money to be made being a prominent denier than there is being a climate scientist just doing your job.

    ————————
    He who is not named loves going on about the climate scientists being on the take but he never ever addresses this end of the scale:

    One of the world’s most prominent scientific figures to be sceptical about climate change has admitted to being paid more than $1m in the past decade by major US oil and coal companies.

    Dr Willie Soon, an astrophysicist at the Solar, Stellar and Planetary Sciences Division of the Harvard-Smithsonian Centre for Astrophysics, is known for his view that global warming and the melting of the arctic sea ice is caused by solar variation rather than human-caused CO2 emissions, and that polar bears are not primarily threatened by climate change.

  61. Adrian, very nice to see you again. Yes indeed, when the deniers have been able to dredge up a scientist these are backed by Big Money – which compares with scientists working at universities who have to regularly go cap in hand for government and business handouts.

  62. Our unnamed one loves Carter so the piece below must come as a huge blow to him.

    Australia’s place in the global web of climate denial

    In other words just like most of the other opponents and indeed this blog’s resident right wing closed mind denier, they make it up as they go.

    It’s good to see though that he no longer pretends to be of the left and is now in open support of the extreme right wing Abbott and cohorts.

  63. ME, that’s a very long list of ‘vested interests’, and of course they all base their opinions on ‘science’.

  64. I still go by youngest – when I asked scientist daughter about ‘the science’ her reply was that this is not something that scientists concern themselves with but that they’re far too busy getting on with the job. Her opinion is that it’s all just ‘newspaper talk’.

  65. Some thoughts from the ‘border’ country,

    http://www.bordermail.com.au/news/opinion/editorial/general/clowns-and-hypocrites-in-parliament/2209655.aspx?storypage=0

    Clowns and hypocrites in Parliament

    ONE of my favourite television programs is Question Time on the ABC network, which deals with the workings of the Federal Parliament.
    So while I was at home for a couple of weeks recently on sick leave I thought I would take the opportunity to have a bit of a lie down and watch the show during the day, instead of late at night.

    But I wish I hadn’t because all it did was make me feel more crook.

    I have never seen so many clowns gathered together in the one place and there was nothing funny about them, especially given the vicious and vitriolic nature of some of the members of the House of Representatives.

    To add to my frustration I had to put up with the behaviour of the policy-bereft and intellectually delinquent opposition and their leader, Tony Abbott, as they kept hammering away at the same old things, day in and day out.

  66. I’m still of the opinion that Turnbull will have another crack at the leadership..he isn’t hanging around just for the sake of his good looks. Turnbull being an astute businessman will be waiting to see how far to the left Australia leans after the advent of the Greens and if the lean is far enough, he will have another go at it…next year I think. But it could be sooner..life being full of surprises.

  67. Applauding statements of the obvious

    http://www.crikey.com.au/2011/06/29/crikey-says-applauding-statements-of-the-obvious/

    It’s eloquent testimony to the state of the debate over a carbon price that a statement of the obvious by NAB’s Cameron Clyne is newsworthy. So wretched has been the contribution to the debate on climate change action from Australian business and so distorted has the debate become that Clyne’s simple remark that a carbon price would drive certainty and investment seems like a breath of fresh air.

    However, another of Clyne’s observations is more significant. He correctly notes that if a carbon price does not eventuate, the issue will not go away; rather, the debate about how to curb Australia’s emissions will have to continue. We are currently on a trajectory to well overshoot the bipartisan commitment to reduce our emissions by 5% by 2020. Even with a carbon price, it will be a struggle just to meet that unambitious target. Worse, the Coalition’s misnamed “direct action” plan will do nothing to curb emissions, but in essence pay business to lock in exactly the business-as-usual trajectory we are currently on. Climate change, the need for international action to reduce or curb growth in emissions, and Australia’s role in that action will remain as major policy issues regardless of what this current generation of risk-averse politicians decide to do.

    Clyne appears to understand that delay significantly increases the costs of the actions we must take, better than many of our leaders in Canberra.

  68. Gemma @ 2.30pm, thanks for the link:-

    http://www.theage.com.au/business/hockeynomics-101-the-fiscal-fumble-while-canberra-bumbles-20110629-1gq6x.html#ixzz1QdVDjoBW

    The eye-catching question in this article is this :-

    What if Hockey and Abbott really were silly enough to believe they were the good old days? Sure, there were surpluses, but fiscal policy was neutral, providing no fiscal drag while showering voters with tax cuts and throwing economic management responsibilities back on the Reserve Bank. Consequently the headline variable home mortgage rate hit 9.6 per cent in 2008 before the GFC intervened and probably saved us from something worse.

    and this:-

    While the government bumbles implementation and lets a jerking knee get in front of thinking (cattle exports just the latest example), the opposition promises damaging macro policies. Oh dear.

    Even the “deficit bad, surplus good” chant is itself dangerous. As the RBA governor underlined earlier this month, the present pace of return to surplus is already taking 2 per cent off the nation’s GDP in the new financial year. Hockeynomics might have fun explaining to the retailers and “Australian families doing it tough” that he’d like to reduce economic growth further. The current rate movement towards surplus is a finely balanced thing on the assumption that the commodities and capex booms will continue as planned.

    and this
    So don’t be taken in by politicians and tabloid media furiously trying to convince us that things are crook. Some industries and regions inevitably do it much harder than others when faced by a major disruption such as the rise and rise of the Australian dollar. Some good businesses fail, but many more adapt and get better. That’s what is making us a more wealthy country – as long as silly macro policies don’t stuff it up.

  69. When science is undone by fiction
    http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/politics/when-science-is-undone-by-fiction-20110628-1gp26.html?rand=1309268585351

    The myth of Climate-gate has endured because of media failings.

    Geologist and long-time climate change denialist Bob Carter materialised on this website on Monday, reprising a weary routine – tiptoeing through the scientific archive to find the morsels of data that might, with a twirl here and a shimmy there, contrive to support his theory that global warming is a big fat conspiracy.

    Meanwhile, in real news, the journal Nature Geoscience published a paper by American and British scientists that found West Antarctica’s Pine Island glacier is now melting 50 per cent faster than in 1994.

    read on, then this:-
    So you might imagine that this latest insight would merit a mention. But it didn’t make the cut for publication in any Australian newspapers. (It did make an appearance on Fairfax’s online news sites.)

    Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/politics/when-science-is-undone-by-fiction-20110628-1gp26.html#ixzz1Qfj4KskH

    Why didn’t this story ‘make the cut’ in the main stream media ?

  70. Smoke and mirrors ? The Big Tobacco advertising campaign.

    Debate goes up in smoke
    http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/politics/debate-goes-up-in-smoke-20110628-1gp27.html?rand=1309268538799

    The forum for political discussion has shifted into the realm of advertising.

    and this,
    The fact of the matter right now is that for whatever reason political debate in Australia is especially barren.

    and this
    The Big Tobacco advertising campaign tries to exploit that gap between the government and the community. The campaign by clubs and hotels against a plan to introduce a form of licensing for gamblers is designed to take advantage of the same phenomenon: the final line of the radio ads describes the measure as ”un-Australian”. This campaign is intentionally about values rather than practicalities.

    As digital and social media have expanded, the expectation has been that community activism would break down the old power structures and forms of communication. Instead, big unions, big miners and Big Tobacco, using conventional ”old” media, have shown deep pockets can still mean loud voices. Crumbling parties and uncertain political leaders only amp up the volume.

    Just as with the lack of reporting mentioned above, @ 11.42pm, the vested corporate interests have the floor. and the funds at the ready….for a fight.

    Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/politics/debate-goes-up-in-smoke-20110628-1gp27.html#ixzz1QfsIEx25

  71. Pip @ 12.20..from your link “Arguing from a point of naked self-interest, cigarette manufacturers are trying to generate a political movement. On the face of it, this seems absurd.” Shaun Carney is correct, it is absurd.

    Vested interests such as the gambling industry and Big Tobacco might rally some to their ’cause’, cause the shock-jocks and their supporters to go red in the face in faux-outrage – it will matter not one iota. They have forgotten one thing, the more that these vested interests protest the more the vast majority of people become convinced that the government is on the right track with the issue.

    Surely plain packaging must work if Big Tobacco is prepared to run a media campaign to try to fight it.

  72. ‘Shaun Carney is correct, it is absurd. ‘

    I also think it is a step too far.

    I think the recent Mining Tax ads, which turned out, well after their success, to be a load of old cobblers, fooled the pople, and that the people will be far more wary of political advertising in hte future.

    Particularly one as blatantly obvious of the cigarette one. They don’t try to defend themselves at al (as it is pretty indefensible), instead, they do the yabot trick, and attack with negativity.

    Knowingly killing people with your product is always going to be a hard position to defend though.

  73. “GREENS leader Bob Brown will deny Tony Abbott’s mandate to scrap the carbon tax if the Coalition wins the next election, offering a “rolled gold” guarantee that he will block a rollback in the Senate.

    Don’t you just love the word “mandate”. If Tony Abbott were to win a majority in the House of Representatives then Sid Maher of the Oz thinks Abbott has the right to implement coalition policies.
    Gee Whiz to day is the last day of the Senate that Rudd/Gillard had to deal with.
    Rudd and even Howard had the MANDATE on climate change action but where was Sid Maher and the Oz on that issue, let alone any of the other issues from the 2007 election.
    I am, as no doubt is the Oz, worried for Tony and a hostile Senate. So lets just hope for Abbott’s state of mind and the nation’s betterment that Gillard wins the election with or without more independents in 2013.

  74. Exactly Sue, all this talk of a ‘mandate’ was completely ignored when the libs welched on their deal with the Government.

    Apparently it’s found favour again (in the hope that they get one)

  75. Business leaders back Julia Gillard’s carbon price

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/business-leaders-back-julia-gillard-on-carbon-price-policy/story-fn961iy1-1226084700680

    FOUR leading business figures have backed the Gillard government’s carbon tax policy, calling on the Greens and crossbenchers to “get moving” on negotiating a framework.

    Speaking at The Australian’s inaugural Up to Speed business breakfast forum in Melbourne this morning, the lead-in to The Australian and Melbourne Institute’s annual Growth Challenge conference, Fosters Group chief executive John Pollaers said “everyone gets” that an emission trading scheme has to happen“Everyone gets it has to happen, that is a trading scheme,” Mr Pollaers said.

    “I sometimes struggle with where this sits in the priorities in Australia at the moment.

    “It has to be done, I think it is right we do do it. If the benefit case includes that we are going to create a green tech sector in Australia that gives leadership . . . then let’s get moving.”

    His comments were backed by fellow panellists, Pacific Brands, Mirvac and Gloucester Coal chairman James MacKenzie, AustralianSuper chair Elana Rubin and Stockland director Carol Schwartz.

    Mr MacKenzie and Ms Rubin dismissed concerns that the carbon tax had heightened sovereign risk concerns among foreign investors about Australia as an investment destination.

    “I was in London last week on a roadshow for Gloucester Coal, so I would have seen 20 institutional investors. There was not one grizzle about the carbon tax. Not one mention of it,” Mr MacKenzie said.

    “We are talking about $1 a tonne in the coal industry. It is not something that is going to affect the economics of the coal industry perhaps as much as Bob Brown would like it to.

  76. ‘Major hurdles’ crossed as deal on carbon tax appears likely in next fortnight

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/climate/major-hurdles-crossed-as-deal-on-carbon-tax-appears-likely-in-next-fortnight/story-e6frg6xf-1226084679124

    GREENS leader Bob Brown says a carbon tax deal is likely in the next two weeks, with the multi-party climate change committee reaching agreement on key sticking points.

    Among the “major hurdles” Senator Brown said had been crossed is agreement on a transition from a fixed carbon price to an emissions
    trading scheme in 2015.

    Reports have also emerged of agreement on compensation for the coal industry and how to proceed if parliament blocks thereduction targets and the nominated carbon price.

    The starting price for the carbon tax remains a sticking point in negotiations, Fairfax reports, but the increased involvement of Julia Gillard and Senator Brown in negotiations has brought a finalised deal closer.

    Labor and the Greens have been at loggerheads over what to do if the government and parliament are unable to agree on 2020 emissions reductions targets, with Labor arguing for a five per cent cut and the Greens arguing for no target to be set.

    As a compromise, the government has reportedly proposed an independent committee that will review the emissions reduction targets each year.

    An optimistic Senator Brown told the ABC today the committee was “not there yet”, following formal meetings on Tuesday and yesterday.

    However he added: “We have crossed a couple of major hurdles which were there last week, but we still haven’t crossed the lot.”

  77. Academics want climate sceptic’s lecture cancelled

    http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/breaking/9756509/academics-want-climate-sceptics-lecture-cancelled/

    More than 50 Australian academics have signed a letter to Fremantle’s Notre Dame University urging it to cancel a lecture by controversial British climate change sceptic Lord Christopher Monckton.

    Lord Monckton, who was this week forced to apologise to the Federal Government’s chief climate change advisor Professor Ross Garnaut for likening him to a nazi, is set to deliver the Lang Hancock Lecture at Notre Dame tonight.

    His speech is sponsored by billionaire mining mogul Gina Rinehart, Mr Hancock’s daughter.

    The letter, organised by University of Western Australia postgraduate student Natalie Latter, says the academics – which include UWA Professor Ullrich Ecker, Sydney’s University of Technology Professor Cynthia Mitchell and Dr Iain White, from the University of Manchester – says the academics are “deeply disturbed” that Notre Dame intends to host the lecture.

    It accuses Lord Monckton of “propounding widely discredited fictions about climate change and misrepresenting the research of countless scientists”.

    “With zero peer-reviewed scientific publications, he has declared that the scientific enterprise is invalid and that climate science is fraudulent,” the letter says.

    “He stands for the kind of ignorance and superstition that universities have a duty to counter.”

  78. “Academics want climate sceptic’s lecture cancelled”

    Just like you people. You preach “freedom of speech” unless it is someone you disagree with.

    What is the harm in letting him speak?? If he is wrong it will eventually come out.

  79. Neil, I personally don’t have a problem with Lord Monckton speaking – and we know which side his bread is buttered when someone such as Gina Rinehart pays for him to speak – but I guess that the University considers that it has standards to uphold.

  80. Yes. And Notre Dame is letting him speak.

    I am sure they do not like it when other Uni’s tell them who they are allowed to speak at their campus.

  81. That’s good Neil. If Gina wants to pay for Lord Monckton to speak, then that’s her privilege..and very privileged she is. I just hope that the audience refrains from rolling Jaffas down the aisle.

  82. “Fremantle’s Notre Dame University”

    I take this is a Catholic private university. I hope they are going to make time available for other scientist to voice their opinion on what Mr. Monckton and others have to say.

    I am willing to contribute to any fund that allows this to occur, as I assume the University is doing it for the money.

  83. CU, knowing uni students they will turn up just for their amusement. The best lecture I attended was Justice Kirby..my criminal law lecturer David Heilpern conned him to come to Southern Cross Uni..Justice Kirby then wrote a forward to David’s book “For Fear or Favor”. 100% attendance :)

  84. “Pseudo science used to make political book”,

    Fox Mulder, The X-Files. :smile:

    We watched an old episode of the X-Files for fun tonight and this line jumped out at me, having been subjected to more Lord Monckton in the ‘news’.

  85. Beyond reasonable doubt: respecting the science

    http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/2777942.html

    Anyone can misquote someone else to give their own argument more weight. It is not too hard to take a sentence out of a long essay, or even part of a sentence, and bend it to bolster your otherwise fragile point. It is enough, some think, simply to create doubt.

    After the work of very many scientists over more than 50 years, the views on climate change have converged to the point where the evidence has moved from possible to beyond reasonable doubt. But do we do nothing because of the mockers or because some scientists disagree, or because some others sit on the side and shout but don’t put their ideas into the scientific literature?

    The quintessence of the debate about climate science should be based on the scientific evidence at hand. Science is contestable; scientists are natural skeptics and highly trained critics. They constantly evaluate and revise. But sooner or later, prevailing views will converge after scrutiny and challenge. Some call that a consensus; not a contrived view but a majority view. After the work of scientists from multiple disciplinary backgrounds the lines of evidence on climate change have converged to support a high degree of confidence that climate is changing and that human activity is a primary cause.

  86. Industry push to wipe out carbon price

    http://www.smh.com.au/environment/industry-push-to-wipe-out-carbon-price-20110630-1gtae.html

    AN ALLIANCE of some of the nation’s biggest industry organisations is preparing to spend millions of dollars on a campaign to destroy the Gillard government’s plans to put a price on carbon.

    The group, which has called itself the Australian Trade and Industry Alliance, is prepared to spend at least $10 million on its campaign, which will mimic that which was run against the mining tax a year ago.

    The alliance’s strategy document, seen by the Herald, lists its key objective as to ”build public opposition to the carbon tax so that it is either substantially modified or fails to pass the Parliament”.

    A campaign involving television, radio, print, the internet and social media would begin within seven days of the government announcing the final details of its scheme and ”would run until the likely parliamentary consideration of the legislation in late 2011”.

    The organisations involved include the Australian Chamber of Commerce and Industry, the Minerals Council of Australia, the Australian Food and Grocery Council, the Australian Coal Association, the Plastics and Chemical Industries Association and the Australian Logistics Council, which is a loose collection of freight and transport companies.

    Obviously these big shots will bombard every section of the news media, newspapers and TV and radio stations with “PSEUDO SCIENCE USED TO MAKE POLITICAL BOOK”.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/environment/industry-push-to-wipe-out-carbon-price-20110630-1gtae.html#ixzz1Qm3CsNjD

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/environment/industry-push-to-wipe-out-carbon-price-20110630-1gtae.html#ixzz1Qm2znhw5

  87. Pip, maybe the worm is turning at the OO. They did the same thing with Kevin Rudd..tore strips off him for everything imaginable and then named him their Australian of the Year.

  88. Looks like I’m not the only one who was disgruntled by the way certain media personalities portrayed the state of emmisions trading in the US

    Professor Garnaut said he had been concerned about the “misrepresentation of United States policy and action on climate change in parts of the Australian climate change discussion”.

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/ross-garnaut-takes-swipe-at-media-as-he-goes/story-fn961iy1-1226085169303

    I actually hope he becomes more vocal in exposing the absolute mess that our media are

  89. I certainly agree with you there Tom. The media have got away with not just plain sloppiness in their reporting but bias for far far too long.

  90. Eddie, thanks for the link…HR Nicholls one day and Hawker Britton the next….nice and quick to reply !

  91. Rupert Murdoch finally gets green light for BSkyB takeover

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/jun/30/rupert-murdoch-bskyb-takeover-price

    Rupert Murdoch is likely to end up having to pay nearly £2bn more to secure full control of BSkyB, after being forced to wait over a year for regulatory approval to buy the 61% of satellite broadcaster BSkyB his News Corporation does not already own.

    The media mogul proposed a £7.4bn takeover offer in June last year priced at 700p per Sky share, but after objections from most of the rest of Fleet Street – worried about the combination of the largest UK newspaper owner and the largest broadcaster – the takeover bid was referred to the competition authorities by the business secretary, Vince Cable.

    That triggered an eight-month inquiry – which all but ended when the culture secretary, Jeremy Hunt, put the finishing touches to a series of undertakings aimed at safeguarding “media plurality”. They would require the enlarged company to spin off Sky News for at least 10 years, capping News Corp’s shareholding at its current 39.1%

    While the process dragged on Vince Cable was stripped of his power to take the decision after he was covertly recorded by Daily Telegraph journalists as saying he had “declared war on Murdoch” last December. Meanwhile Sky’s share price continued to soar – reaching 846.5p last night.

  92. Rupert Murdoch finally gets green light for BSkyB takeover

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/jun/30/rupert-murdoch-bskyb-takeover-price

    Rupert Murdoch is likely to end up having to pay nearly £2bn more to secure full control of BSkyB, after being forced to wait over a year for regulatory approval to buy the 61% of satellite broadcaster BSkyB his News Corporation does not already own.

    The media mogul proposed a £7.4bn takeover offer in June last year priced at 700p per Sky share, but after objections from most of the rest of Fleet Street – worried about the combination of the largest UK newspaper owner and the largest broadcaster – the takeover bid was referred to the competition authorities by the business secretary, Vince Cable.

    That triggered an eight-month inquiry – which all but ended when the culture secretary, Jeremy Hunt, put the finishing touches to a series of undertakings aimed at safeguarding “media plurality”. They would require the enlarged company to spin off Sky News for at least 10 years, capping News Corp’s shareholding at its current 39.1%

    While the process dragged on Vince Cable was stripped of his power to take the decision after he was covertly recorded by Daily Telegraph journalists as saying he had “declared war on Murdoch” last December. Meanwhile Sky’s share price continued to soar – reaching 846.5p last night.

  93. Woops :oops: the story does need repeating anyway !

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/media/tv-radio/bskyb-deal-gets-the-goahead-amid-outburst-of-anger-from-labour-2305192.html

    BSkyB deal gets the go-ahead amid outburst of anger from Labour

    Jeremy Hunt was not at the BSkyB summer party at the Foreign Office last night but News Corp executives were toasting the Culture Secretary’s decision to give the go-ahead to Rupert Murdoch’s complete takeover of the satellite broadcasting company.

  94. ACT Liberals forced by public pressure to repay a Government grant designed for carers and volunteers (those of the Liberal Party persuasion anyway).
    It appears that the rotten apple does not fall far from the Federal Liberal Party tree

  95. Tony knows best:

    “ASHLEY HALL: Asked why most of the nation’s leading economists don’t see things that way, Mr Abbott took a swipe at the profession.

    TONY ABBOTT: They should think again because when you get beyond the lure of the phrase ‘market based mechanisms’ the reality is very different. It may well be, as you say Michael, that most Australian economists think that a carbon tax or an emissions trading scheme is the way to go. Maybe that’s a comment on the quality of our economists rather than the merits of the argument.”

    http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2011/s3258975.htm

    So the scientists are talking “crap” and now the economists are of low quality.

    This is the guy who wants to run the country. Of course Stalin knew what to do with economists (extended Sabbatical in Siberia).

  96. Luna, Abbott always did say that the economy isn’t his strong suit…come to think of it exactly what is Tony Abbott’s strong suit?

  97. luna lava, Abbott’s criticism didn’t sit too well with economist Saul Eslake,

    Think again on carbon tax, Abbott tells economists
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/07/01/3258962.htm?section=justin

    Opposition Leader Tony Abbott has criticised Australian economists for supporting a carbon tax and a market-based emissions trading scheme as planned by the Federal Government.

    But high-profile economist Saul Eslake has hit back, saying Mr Abbott’s problem is that he cannot find an Australian economist who will support his “direct action” policy.

    and

    Mr Eslake, program director with the Grattan Institute, told ABC News Online it appears Mr Abbott’s criticism of Australian economists refers to an open letter signed by 13 of Australia’s top economists backing a carbon price.

    The letter, published last month, was signed by Chris Caton, chief economist at BT Financial Group; Besa Deda, chief economist at St George; Bill Evans, chief economist at Westpac and Mr Eslake among others.

    It called for the speedy introduction of a price on carbon pollution, preferably by way of an emissions trading scheme.

    “The frustration he has is that he can’t find a single economist in Australia who supports his policy,” Mr Eslake said.

  98. First of all, it was entertainers, especially rich ones, then over hundred year olds, now the scientist and economists, who have no right to speak. It would be easier for Mr. Abbott if everyone shut up, as he is the only that is correct.

  99. Has the man gone too far. Note demonstrators are demanding a double dissolution now. I wonder how they think this can happen. All they are able to have is an election for the lower house. Sorry, they will still not have the vote for the senate.

    “PROTESTERS: We want a double dissolution and we want it now!”

    “Listen to MP3 of this story ( minutes)
    Alternate WMA version | MP3 download
    STEPHEN LONG: First tonight, it’s people skills versus the dismal science. The Opposition Leader Tony Abbott says economists should rethink their support for putting a price on carbon.

    Mr Abbott laid out his case against a carbon tax to an economic conference in Melbourne today. And he questioned the quality of economists who don’t support his so-called direct action plan.

    The profession has hit back. One of Australia’s most respected economic theorists says Mr Abbott would find support for his policy in communist China.

    Ashley Hall reports.

    (Sound of protesters)

    PROTESTERS: We want a double dissolution and we want it now!

    ASHLEY HALL: More than a thousand protesters converged on Sydney’s Martin Place for a lunchtime rally against the carbon tax. They waved placards, shouted slogans and called for an early election.

    PROTESTERS: We want a double dissolution and we want it now!

    ASHLEY HALL: At about the same time at a major economics conference at the University of Melbourne, the Opposition Leader, Tony Abbott, used a more moderate tone to deliver a similar message.

    TONY ABBOTT: The Coalition’s fundamental contention is that the unilateral imposition of a carbon price will put Australia at a competitive disadvantage compared to countries which are taking no such action.

    ASHLEY HALL: Piece by piece, Mr Abbott tore apart the Government’s arguments in favour of a carbon-pricing mechanism.

    TONY ABBOTT: A carbon tax increases overall business costs, decreases economic efficiency, reduces employment and massively and permanently boosts the size of government. Change it certainly is, but reform it’s most definitely not.

    ASHLEY HALL: Mr Abbott said it’s a furphy to describe the Government’s plan as a market-based policy because the scheme would be expensive to run and lack transparency. He says it would be open to corruption and would provide no certainty because the price could fluctuate wildly.

    TONY ABBOTT: This is why direct action as the Coalition proposes is actually a more practical market based approach to emissions reductions than an emissions trading scheme.

    ASHLEY HALL: Asked why most of the nation’s leading economists don’t see things that way, Mr Abbott took a swipe at the profession.

    TONY ABBOTT: They should think again because when you get beyond the lure of the phrase ‘market based mechanisms’ the reality is very different. It may well be, as you say Michael, that most Australian economists think that a carbon tax or an emissions trading scheme is the way to go. Maybe that’s a comment on the quality of our economists rather than the merits of the argument…….

    ……………..PENNY WONG: We know he thinks economics is boring and now we know he thinks economists are stupid. Mr Abbott shot the messenger today, having a go at Australian economists who make the very clear point that his climate change policy simply won’t work…..
    ………….ASHLEY HALL: The Treasurer, Wayne Swan, says an advertising campaign won’t sway the Government.

    WAYNE SWAN: They have not even seen the design of the scheme. They’re not fair dinkum. What they are against is reform; reform which we need to make our economy prosperous.

    ASHLEY HALL: In the end, it’s likely to be the independents and Greens who decide the fate of the tax. The Greens leader, Bob Brown, says his colleagues won’t be deterred from action by an advertising campaign

    BOB BROWN: Oh come on, afraid of these big polluters? Not on your life. I’ll take them on and Christine Milne will and our team will, all the way to a cleaner Australia.

    ASHLEY HALL: The Independent MP, Tony Windsor, is just as dismissive of the campaign. And his fellow independent Rob Oakeshott told Alexandra Kirk he’s looking forward to a full debate on the carbon tax package once the details are released.

    ROB OAKESHOTT: The Parliament is the place where we will have a full and frank debate and I’m sure we’ll see lots of advertising from all sorts of vested interests and good luck to them.

    ALEXANDRA KIRK: Do you think you’d be swayed by their campaign.

    ROB OAKESHOTT: No.

    ASHLEY HALL: Mr Oakeshott says members of the anti-tax coalition have already been involved in the design of the scheme, and he can’t understand why they haven’t raised any concerns already.

    STEPHEN LONG: Ashley Hall.
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    Windsor says ad campaign won’t influence him

    Industry groups launch campaign against carbon tax

    Images,,,,,

    http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2011/s3258975.htm

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    Related Links
    ABC takes no responsibility for the sites these links take you to.”

    These words should not be in above. Sorry.

  101. CU, I wonder how many of those protesters even know what a double dissolution is, as in it’s a procedure under the Constitution to resolve deadlocks between the lower house and the Senate. You cannot actually demand one…

  102. Min, especially when there are no grounds under the Constitution. Wonder were the 1000 marchers came from. Wonder if they were still recieving their pay, if they left offices.

    Funny to have a march out of the blue.

  103. CU, it seems that the numbers have now been revised down to 500.

    HUNDREDS of protesters, mainly 50-years-plus, have used poo jokes to make their point at an anti-carbon tax rally.

    About 500 protesters gathered in Sydney to rally against the federal government’s planned carbon tax, screaming with approval when broadcaster Alan Jones climbed up onto a stage to criticise Prime Minister Julia Gillard.

    http://www.news.com.au/national/alan-jones-tells-carbon-tax-rally-pm-will-go-down-the-sewer/story-e6frfkvr-1226085874824#ixzz1QqlNIFab

  104. I didn’t realize that this rally was even planned..the SMH makes no mention of the rally at all.

  105. Well it appears that Alan Jones does not like competition.

    I am sure if it was public knowledge, Getup would have had as many out. I wonder if they got permission to march.

    It was to the Town Hall I believe.

    Are we to believe this march was spontaneous.

  106. Sorry, it was in Martin Place. At least they did not have far to go from their offices. Looks very professional display. Most of the yellow signs asked for an election now,

    There is nothing I know of in the constitution that allow a election to be called, because some do not like the government. Mr. Abbott needs to get off his bike and spend some of his effort in the parliament. The only way the government can be disposed is on the floor of the lower house.

    “Rock star Angry Anderson introduced the speakers, which included federal Nationals leader Warren Truss and Nationals Senator Barnaby Joyce.

    Read more: http://www.news.com.au/national/alan-jones-tells-carbon-tax-rally-pm-will-go-down-the-sewer/story-e6frfkvr-1226085874824#ixzz1Qqr255bW
    http://www.news.com.au/national/alan-jones-tells-carbon-tax-rally-pm-will-go-down-the-sewer/story-e6frfkvr-1226085874824#ixzz1QqlNIFab

  107. Here is greats story Yabbot having a go at economists.

    Think again on carbon tax, Abbott tells economists
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/07/01/3258962.htm

    Best part of the article is the expert Yabbot references
    Danish academic Bjorn Lomberg

    “However, it is the credibility of Mr Lomberg rather than Australian economists which may not stand up to scrutiny.
    In 2003 the Danish Committees on Scientific Dishonesty upheld a series of complaints laid about Lomberg’s book The Skepical Environmentalist.

    They included scientific dishonesty, selective discarding of unwanted results, deliberately misleading statistical evidence, plagiarism and deliberate misinterpretation of others results.”

    Sounds like a man after of Liberal qualities;
    dishonesty
    selective discarding of unwanted results
    deliberately misleading
    deliberate misinterpretation
    plagiarism
    No wonder Yabbott was keen to use him as his “expert”.

  108. I watched the anti-carbon tax rally on SBS news.One of the protestors screeming out was wearing a Pauline Hanson T-shirt,lol.

  109. ‘Most of the yellow signs asked for an election now…’

    Silly old buggers aren’t happy with an election in due course, they want a double dissolution now.

  110. Why is Mr. Abbott desperate to have an election now.

    Could it be that he believes if he waits, the tide will turn and he will not win.

    Is he scared that over time, many will see through his scare tactics when the sky does not fall in.

    Maybe he does believe you can fool some of the people all the time. All of the people for some of the time. You cannot fool all the people all the time.

    What is clear that he is desperate to get into power now.

  111. Min @ 8.59pm, Anal Jones is all class….

    Cu thanks for the links :]]

    Sue, Saul Eslake, aussie economist wasn’t too impressed with Abbott’s comments.

    Eddie, did you say Pauline Hanson t-shirts !!!

    el gordo, for once we agree on something, “silly old buggers”.

  112. Cu, I think that Abbott’s [A] impatient, [B] very confident about the support from the alliance of businesses lining up with their ten million dollars to bring down the government.

    Nothing else crosses his mind.

  113. The man has big problems. Economists wrong. Scientist wrong. Treasury cannot be trusted. Cannot have carbon pricing because the criminals will rip it off. The need to protect outdated, dirty and worn out brown coal power plants.

    I would be concerned if I found myself out of step with everyone and everything.

  114. Nice work if you can get it …..

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/jun/28/climate-change-sceptic-willie-soon

    One of the world’s most prominent scientific figures to be sceptical about climate change has admitted to being paid more than $1m in the past decade by major US oil and coal companies.

    Dr Willie Soon, an astrophysicist at the Solar, Stellar and Planetary Sciences Division of the Harvard-Smithsonian Centre for Astrophysics, is known for his view that global warming and the melting of the arctic sea ice is caused by solar variation rather than human-caused CO2 emissions, and that polar bears are not primarily threatened by climate change.

    But according to a Greenpeace US investigation, he has been heavily funded by coal and oil industry interests since 2001, receiving money from ExxonMobil, the American Petroleum Insitute and Koch Industries along with Southern, one of the world’s largest coal-burning utility companies. Since 2002, it is alleged, every new grant he has received has been from either oil or coal interests.

  115. More to the point what is one particular Australian Mining company doing ?

    Coral Sea paradise faces ruin from mining

    http://www.smh.com.au/environment/coral-sea-paradise-faces-ruin-from-mining-20110701-1gv6w.html

    ONE of Australia’s richest men, Clive Palmer, is buying nickel laterite ore for his Yabulu refinery from an Indonesian company that is defying a ban and mining in Raja Ampat, the world’s most ecologically diverse marine environment.

    An investigation by the Herald has discovered that as well as threatening the environment that is home to 75 per cent of the world’s coral species, the supplier undercompensates landowners, has allegedly paid bribes for its licences and created deep rifts in the traditional communities of Raja Ampat.

    Conservationists and activists have fought hard to have Raja Ampat, in West Papua province, protected but the mine on the island of Manuran where Queensland Nickel gets its nickel, PT Anugerah Surya Pratama, remains open.

    And its sister company continues to work at another disputed concession on the island of Kawe, despite a court order to desist.

    Obtaining nickel laterite involves strip-mining the soil, leaving the steep hills bare. When heavy rains come, villagers near Manuran say the sea ”turns red” from the runoff.

    The environmental impact is devastating as heavy soil smothers the coral.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/environment/coral-sea-paradise-faces-ruin-from-mining-20110701-1gv6w.html#ixzz1QrYE5Vet

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/environment/coral-sea-paradise-faces-ruin-from-mining-20110701-1gv6w.html#ixzz1QrXehNha

  116. Chipping away at paradise

    http://www.theage.com.au/environment/conservation/chipping-away-at-paradise-20110701-1gv3s.html

    Australia’s lust for minerals threatens a marine wilderness, writes Tom Allard in Jakarta.

    About once a month, a ship from Townsville makes the long journey to Raja Ampat, a seascape of astonishing beauty and diversity.

    In the far western reaches of the island of New Guinea, where the westerly currents of the Pacific flow into the Indian Ocean, hundreds of improbable, domed limestone pinnacles rise from the sea, encircling placid, turquoise lagoons.

    Fjord-like bays cut deep into the hinterland of mountainous islands, framed by vertiginous jungle-clad cliffs that drop steeply into the water. There are oceanic atolls, shallow bays with fine white sand beaches, snaking rivers and mangrove swamps.

    I hope this story of outrageous environmental vandalism is followed up by every news outlet, but I’m not holding my breath !

    Oxfam Australia, which runs a mining ombudsman, says there is a clear obligation for companies that process raw minerals to be held accountable for their suppliers.

    Oxfam Australia’s executive director, Andrew Hewett, says: ”Australian companies need to make sure that they are only buying minerals from other companies that respect workers’ rights, community rights and the environment. If there’s a good reason to believe that a supplier is causing harm, the company should undertake a thorough assessment.

    ”If any issues are found, the company should in the first instance work with the supplier to try to rectify the problem. If this doesn’t work, the company should reconsider its business relationship with the supplier.”

    Further in to the story there is this:-

    Dr Mark Erdmann, a senior adviser to Conservation International’s marine program in Indonesia, says: ”We are very concerned about the potential for sedimentation and metal deposits to be transported by Kawe’s strong currents and moved up to Wayag and down to Aljui Bay.”

    Raja Ampat is theoretically protected by seven marine parks and a shark conservation zone. Controls on illegal fishing are actively enforced, but land-based threats such as mining on nearby islands continues unabated.

    Indonesia’s government has recognised the extraordinary habitats in Raja Ampat. It put the region on the ”tentative list” to become a UNESCO world heritage area, like the Great Barrier Reef, in 2005. But the application has stalled due to government inaction. Many suspect that is because it wants to exploit the area’s natural resources through mining and logging.

    In a deeply worrying development for conservationists, nickel and oil exploration restarted this year after the local government issued new exploration permits.

    Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/environment/conservation/chipping-away-at-paradise-20110701-1gv3s.html#ixzz1QrdVeXbc

  117. That wouldn’t surprise me at all Sue…after all tourism in Queensland employs many many more people than does the mining industry.

  118. Sue, the story is on the front page but with no indication of where it is.http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/

    Bill Shorten to run ruler over land

    http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/business/shorten-to-run-ruler-over-land-20110701-1gv77.html

    ASSISTANT Treasurer Bill Shorten has flagged that the national interest test for foreign acquisitions of farming land may be toughened.

    As both opposition and Greens ramp up the issue, Mr Shorten told The Age yesterday there was a question whether the national interest test administered by the Foreign Investment Review Board ”needs to be updated to reflect community concern about agricultural land and water rights”.

    The government has research under way on the extent of foreign ownership of agricultural land.

    Advertisement: Story continues below Mr Shorten said: ”We unreservedly welcome foreign investment. We’ll look at the evidence on whether any further changes are needed when we get the hard facts.”

    Greens leader Bob Brown called for action earlier this week. Opposition Leader Tony Abbott on Thursday announced a frontbench working party, chaired by Nationals leader Warren Truss, to investigate ”options to strengthen the rules” governing sale to foreign entities.

    There has been controversy around the land acquired in New South Wales by China’s state-owned miner Shenhua Watermark Coal, with opposition to the prospect of mining on prime agricultural land. Qatar’s Hassad Foods has purchased land in Victoria’s Western District.

    Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/business/shorten-to-run-ruler-over-land-20110701-1gv77.html#ixzz1Qtzik8TY

  119. Waynw Swan slams advertising campaign

    http://www.smh.com.au/national/swan-slams-advertising-campaign-20110701-1gv3w.html

    THE industry organisations planning an advertising campaign against the government’s plans to price carbon were vested interests with no belief in economic reform, the Treasurer, Wayne Swan, said yesterday.

    Mr Swan questioned why the groups would put their money on the table to fight a scheme before the details were even known. ”They’re not fair dinkum,” he said.

    ‘The same vested interests that fought against the big reforms of the 1980s and 1990s. They’re out there again.”

    The same vested interests are out in force with the same undemocratic aims. No-one voted them in to government and their tactics are so similar to the US Republicans, it’s scary.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/national/swan-slams-advertising-campaign-20110701-1gv3w.html#ixzz1Qu2XQ32Y

  120. Pip, interesting times ahead. I am certain that Labor has a Wish List a mile long and has been adding to it since ’07 – all the while realizing that there was not much point putting it to a vote while the Liberals and Fielding had control of the Senate. Brand new day :)

  121. Tony Abbott sniffs the wind and muzzles his front bench

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/commentary/tony-abbott-sniffs-the-wind-and-muzzles-his-front-bench/story-e6frgd0x-1226085894549

    LAST week the government made an announcement on the National Broadband Network: a deal was struck whereby NBN Co would pay Telstra $11 billion for access to its fixed line network.

    Sounds like the kind of story an opposition communications spokesman should comment on, right? Not if you are Tony O’Leary, the man charged with running the opposition’s media strategy. And not if you are an overly paranoid Tony Abbott, concerned about what former leader and opposition communications spokesman Malcolm Turnbull may say or do.

    The ABC’s flagship Sunday morning political program Insiders invited Turnbull on last weekend, given the topicality of his portfolio. So did Australian Agenda on Sky News (disclaimer: which I host). Unfortunately for Barrie Cassidy and me, and the hundreds of thousands of Australians who tune in to Sunday morning television to hear what their political leaders have to say in long-form interviews, Abbott’s office told Turnbull that he was not allowed to appear.

    This weekend the same thing happened. Insiders and Australian Agenda invited Turnbull on the programs, the leader’s office told him that he was not allowed to appear, even though in both weeks no other Liberal MPs were doing Sunday morning TV.

    Peter Van Onselen continues
    “I have to say it’s not the sort of courtesy Tony ever gave to Malcolm when he was leader,” a Liberal frontbencher noted. Indeed Abbott was one of a dozen shadow ministers who resigned publicly to bring down Turnbull’s leadership in late 2009. The only difference with other shadows was that they did so over a principled opposition to Turnbull’s support for Labor’s emissions trading scheme. In contrast, Abbott had previously penned an opinion piece in favour of the Turnbull position: he simply read the changing political winds that swept him into the leadership and therefore changed his mind.

    Is it just my opinion or does Abbott look a bit less secure today ?

  122. Tony ‘simply read the changing political winds that swept him into the leadership and therefore changed his mind.’

    He is a political opportunist with ideas, which he is prepared to alter at the drop of a hat.

  123. Cu, something is in the air, there are about three similar toned articles from ltd news today. Very unusual.

    Maybe they’re onto something, or maybe they’ve been let off the leash.

  124. el gordo @ 11.11am, so, Mr. Watts-up with that works as a ‘meteorologist’ for FOX news.
    Why am I not surprised.

  125. Pip, I for one would like to see those type of headlines disappear. At the same time, if the media insists on using them, they should apply to both sides of politics.

    Could the problem be with Mr. Abbott that he is becoming too scary.

    I cannot see Mr. Abbott surviving long if the Opposition did captain power.

    The real question is, who will take over, the old or the new guard.

    I have noticed that any formal vote taken within both arms of the party are nearly 50-50.

    There are many ambitious young turks on both the shadow front and back bench.

    They all appear to have high tickets on themselves.

  126. Pip @ 11.28am. Thank you for that incredibly useful information pertaining to the topic of Wallabies battle cattle farts …love it :D

  127. CU, I know what you mean about spell check..stopped using one (which probably shows) when it changed my surname to the word hernia….

  128. CU, IF Australia was unfortunate enough to elect Abbott prime minister, he would be the same as his mentor JWHoward..old araldite himself. Abbott is already using the same method, that being the failure to promote any new talent within his party while simultaneously undermining those who might pose a threat to his position – Hockey and Turnbull.

  129. Min, Mr. Howard as much as I did not like or agree with what he did, have some political skills.

    He knew how to divide and rule. He also had beliefs that were set in concrete and a very long memory of any slight made against him. He knew were the skeletons were and was not frighten to use them

    Mr. Abbott has no skills beyond that of a bully. He is one of the most inconsistent politicians that I can think of.

  130. CU, true enough. I see Abbott as the supreme egotist, his way or no way at all. Abbott is akin to Howard on amphetamines.

  131. What is next weeks stunt for the stunt a day man to perform.

    Is it going to be spontaneous rallies all over the country, made up of elderly people, and the politicians who just know how to be in the right place at the right time.

    We will see numerous celebrities coming out to support him. There will be a lack of economists, scientist and I suspect, retired liberal politicians.

    What time will we have the censure motion. Someone must have told him we can watch on ABC News 24 for at least 90 minutes. They generally keep going for the motion to change standing orders to finished. Sadly pulling the stunt at 3.20 does not prevent Labor from being heard.

    Most who are interested, turn to their computer.

    Other words, we are in for the same boring repetition of QT since the last election. It takes brain and focus to come up with some clever questions, that most would like the answer to.

    Mr. Abbott does not have the intelligence or inclination to fulfil this role.

  132. CU, fortunately there is some sense in this world, someone who knows the rules and procedures that being Antony Green.

    http://blogs.abc.net.au/antonygreen/2011/06/what-chance-a-double-dissolution-in-the-next-three-years.html

    A double dissolution requires a trigger. Any legislation passed by the House that is defeated, unacceptably amended or fails to be passed by the Senate, and then after a delay of three months is again defeated, unacceptable amended or fails to be passed by the Senate, becomes a double dissolution trigger. A government is permitted to accumulate a number of triggers. At any time in the first
    two and a half years of a House term, any trigger can be used by the Prime Minister to advise the Governor General for a double dissolution.

    Right-o… all those old farts at the rally screaming: We want a double dissolution! When do we want it! We want it now!

    Honestly, what a bunch of idiots…

  133. The young attractive people in favor of a carbon tax look more stupid, but I agree that sceptics lack a youthful appearance.

    They look like mums and dads out of touch.

  134. El gorgo….we’re in agreeance again..we’re going for the record here. While we have young attractive and somewhat older and attractive and I do count you, myself and in fact everyone on this blog in this category..that crowd was bug-ugly.

  135. The latest on the UK phone hacking scandal

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/phone-hacking

    Rupert Murdoch: Empire of the Sun
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/jun/30/rupert-murdoch-empire-the-sun

    Dragged to the House of Commons to explain why he was licensing a fresh expansion of the Murdoch media empire, Jeremy Hunt yesterday wondered aloud why it fell to politicians as opposed to independent regulators to settle such things. The culture secretary’s thought was an interesting one, betraying a recognition of the terrible temptations he faced. But like an alcoholic discussing his problem over a pint, he succumbed all the same. In the midst of the News of the World phone-hacking scandal, Ofcom’s turn-of-the-year advice to refer the decision to the Competition Commission provided the perfect opportunity for Mr Hunt to keep his hands clean. But far from clearing the murk that always surrounds News Corporation’s dealings with elected power, he has greatly thickened the fog.

  136. Late rule change undercuts bid for national service

    [ Eddie will like this ]

    http://www.smh.com.au/business/media-and-marketing/late-rule-change-undercuts-bid-for-national-tv-service-20110703-1gxfy.html

    THE Gillard government has made an unprecedented intervention in an official tender process to stop Sky News Australia, partly owned by Rupert Murdoch, winning a $223 million contract to broadcast Australia’s overseas television service.

    An aggressive bid to expand Australia’s presence in China helped push Sky News over the line in a fierce contest with the ABC to win the rights to the station, known as Australia Network.

    An independent panel of public servants set up to evaluate the competing tenders saw Sky as the better bid – only for the government to baulk at stripping the contract from the publicly funded ABC to hand it to a company part-owned by News Ltd, Channel Seven and the Nine Network.

    Senator Conroy must stick to his guns on this one.

    Imagine an Australian version of Fox Views beaming into China??

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/business/media-and-marketing/late-rule-change-undercuts-bid-for-national-tv-service-20110703-1gxfy.html#ixzz1R3R1L8WV

  137. From Friends of the ABC

    No time for complacency

    http://friendsoftheabc.org/newsletters/Update2011_7.pdf

    Public broadcasting needs public support to survive Murdoch
    broadcasters whose free content threatens its profits.
    Recent events in Britain provide an alarming picture of the Murdoch
    juggernaut and how quickly a public
    broadcaster can be shackled.

    The ABC Charter:-

    http://www.abc.net.au/corp/pubs/charter.htm

    6 Charter of the Corporation

    Part II—Establishment, functions and management of the Corporation
    6 Charter of the Corporation

    (b) to transmit to countries outside Australia broadcasting programs of news, current affairs, entertainment and cultural enrichment that will:

    (i) encourage awareness of Australia and an international understanding of Australian attitudes on world affairs; and

    (ii) enable Australian citizens living or travelling outside Australia to obtain information about Australian affairs and Australian attitudes on world affairs;

    (c) to encourage and promote the musical, dramatic and other performing arts in Australia.

    ‘Vested interests’ must not be given the contract for any part of the ABC.
    Already the ABC news is often a cut and paste of commercial news; The journalists frequently editorialise instead of straight reporting.
    The Drum is a regular platform for think tank, the Institute of Public Affairs and more recently, the HR Nicholls Society, both of which are promoters of free market philosophies, and averse to the idea of a government owned broadcaster.

  138. Sue, finally, hopefully, the current government is going to abide by the ABC Charter:-

    http://www.abc.net.au/corp/pubs/charter.htm

    The ABC Charter:-

    Part II—Establishment, functions and management of the Corporation
    6 Charter of the Corporation

    6 Charter of the Corporation

    Part II—Establishment, functions and management of the Corporation
    6 Charter of the Corporation

    (b) to transmit to countries outside Australia broadcasting programs of news, current affairs, entertainment and cultural enrichment that will:

    (i) encourage awareness of Australia and an international understanding of Australian attitudes on world affairs;

  139. I remember reading a book on Mr. Murdoch failure to set up a network in China. I believe all Mr. Murdoch gained was new, young clever wife.

    Is this a back door attempt to do what he could not do by the front door.

    Whatever Mr. Murdoch agenda is, I doubt whether Australia will benefit.

  140. The News of the World phone hacking story just got a lot nastier with the report of a missing girls phone being hacked, and messages being deleted when the voicemail was full, in order to hear any further voicemail messages, which gave the girl’s parents false hope of her being alive.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/jul/04/milly-dowler-voicemail-hacked-news-of-world

    Missing Milly Dowler’s voicemail was hacked by News of the World• Deleted voicemails gave family false hope
    • Hacking interfered with police hunt
    • Family lawyer: actions ‘heinous and despicable’

    The News of the World illegally targeted the missing schoolgirl Milly Dowler and her family in March 2002, interfering with police inquiries into her disappearance, an investigation by the Guardian has established.

    Scotland Yard is investigating the episode, which is likely to put new pressure on the then editor of the paper, Rebekah Brooks, now Rupert Murdoch’s chief executive in the UK; and the then deputy editor, Andy Coulson, who resigned in January as the prime minister’s media adviser.

    Milly’s family lawyer this afternoon issued a statement in which he described the News of the World’s activities as “heinous” and “despicable”. Milly Dowler, then aged 13, disappeared on her way home in Walton-on-Thames, Surrey on 21 March 2002.

    Detectives from Scotland Yard’s new inquiry into the phone hacking, Operation Weeting, are believed to have found evidence of the targeting of the Dowlers in a collection of 11,000 pages of notes kept by Glenn Mulcaire, the private investigator jailed for phone hacking on behalf of the News of the World.

    In the last four weeks the Met officers have approached Surrey police and taken formal statements from some of those involved in the original inquiry, who were concerned about how News of the World journalists intercepted – and deleted – the voicemail messages of Milly Dowler.

  141. Not surprising he who isn’t named wrong again just as he’s always so wrong on the climate change debate.

    The Bolt Report sinking fast: The Bolt Report Ratings

    When it’s encore performance, which was the only thing propping up his standing when added to the main screening, declines to below the main screening then The Bolt Report is not long for the axe no matter how much Gina props it up.

  142. Mobius, that is wonderful news…couldn’t happen to a ‘nicer’ fella. Oh how the mighty have fallen, or at least his ratings are heading right where they belong..south.

  143. Phone hacking
    News of the World hacked murdered girl’s phone: lawyer

    The Guardian newspaper reports voicemail messages from Milly Dowler’s phone were deleted by journalists in the first few days after Milly’s disappearance in order to free up space for more messages.

    As a result friends and relatives concluded wrongly that she might still be alive. Police feared evidence may have been destroyed.
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/07/05/3261104.htm?section=justin

    “Milly Dowler, a 13-year-old schoolgirl from Surrey, south England, disappeared in March 2002, prompting a nationwide search. Her bones were found six months later in a wood.”

    Apart from how disturbing this article is and the added stress the family endured, the fact is this “hacking” is outside the period that Murdoch/NOW have admitted to, currently 2004 to 2006.

    Just how more is to come to light about this despicable organisation?

  144. Hardly Normals have always been the biggest bunch of crooks, this goes to prove it. Disgusting!

  145. Mr. Abbott is claiming that he has prevented petrol from being a part of carbon pricing.

    Is he also going to take responsibility for the lack of confidence many have in the economy.

    Is he going to admit that his actions of spreading doom and gloom has led to many being too scared to spend money,

    Does he realise that you cannot destroy trust in an government without people react by not trusting the economy.

    Mr. Abbott needs to realise, as Opposition leader he is part of our political system. He is not onlooker.

    Mr. Abbott needs to understand that his actions can also have unseen consequences.

    Our economy, especially when compared to the rest of the world is strong. Our employment and inflation numbers are good. We have good balances of trade. There is very little industrial disputes. Wages are growing in line with the economy. Our debt is manageable.

    Why then do people feel so threatened and fear the future. I suggest that one reason is that the Opposition leaders continual outcries of gloom and misinformation are having an effect.

    It is time that many including the media concentrated on what is happening, not what Mr. Abbott alleges is going to happen.

    It is time we ignored Mr. Abbott’s wishful thinking and magic pudding budgeting promises, and deal with the realities of today.

  146. Eddie @ 12.27pm, thanks for the link to Rupert Murdoch a portrait…
    It’s an ugly picture….

    It seems the latest BSkyB buy-out is thanks to the Tories but it’s not the first time,
    Then in 1981 Rupert Murdoch returned to Britain and took his revenge. He bought the Times.

    It was an act that united both the liberal elites and many old Tories in shock and outrage. This got worse when Mrs Thatcher’s government allowed the takeover to proceed without it being referred to the Monopolies Commission. Under law this should have happened, but the government excused it with the flimsy excuse that neither the Times nor the Sunday Times actually made money.

    There was a growing sense that Murdoch was now manipulating British politicians for his own personal gain. So the BBC decided to
    investigate Murdoch’s business and personal background

  147. CU @ 1:24 pm – you’ve summed it up perfectly! Now let’s see when if the MSM or “their” ABC ask that question :roll:

  148. “Unlike economic models humans aren’t the most rational of subjects and that’s the challenge for any Government, but particularly this one, battling under so many handicaps, many of them self-inflicted.

    And the greater risk for the Government is that the economy, like politics, is a confidence game; and if the punters really do start losing their faith, than this could well become a self-fulfilling prophecy.”

    http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/2782614.html

  149. It appears while Mr. Abbott and the MSM continue with their rubbish and play acting, this government is getting through parliament what ever they wish without comment or scrutiny,

    “Well, we never found out why, and now we’ll never know. Last night, the bill to significantly expand ASIO powers to spy on Australians sailed through the Senate with the support of Labor and the Coalition.”

    http://www.crikey.com.au/2011/07/05/asio-gets-its-new-powers-and-no-one-will-tell-us-why/

  150. Tony Abbott is clearly from another planet.

    All of my life I have searched for intelligent life that originated from outside the Solar System . . . and I find Tony Abbott. My search for intelligent extraterrestrial life continues.

  151. Roswell, surely if the end of the journey might be Tony Abbott it makes one wonder why one would start looking in the first place.

  152. From Political Tarot:

    Apparently Tony Windsor said this about Tony Abbott: “when you’ve only got one line to say, it’s not hard to remember”.

  153. Phone Hacking

    The only response that the Mogul will understand

    “Ford leads major companies in pulling advertising”

  154. Just a thought…why does the MSM keep on harping about “public opinion”. Is it because this is the only way that they can count themselves into relevance? The MSM except for a small minority no longer indulge in things such as analysis and insight into various issues so the only thing that they have going for them is “public opinion”. Laziness, sheer laziness run a Poll and call it “public opinion”…..

  155. Just how disgusting can Murdoch’s UK publication get?

    “Now, police have told the parents of two other murdered schoolgirls, Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman, their family phones might have been hacked.”

    “Ms Brooks, the News of the World’s editor at the time the hacking took place, says she is appalled by the allegations and has written to the girl’s family.”

    A reply from the girl’s parents lawyer:

    “A letter from her nine years later, saying that she knew nothing isn’t really very appealing to the families,” he said.

    “Ultimately you know if she didn’t know what was happening then what was she doing as an editor?

    “She has risen in the company very high – so it’s either she should resign because of incompetence, or she should resign because she did know what was doing, and therefore it’s just not right to carry on doing that job.”

    Hence the old adage be nice to those you meet on the way up, you will meet them again on the way down.

  156. That’s a good link Mobius Echo. I notice that the article is not inviting reader’s comments, which is something that is heartily invited when an article is anti- Julia Gillard.

  157. oop, my bad, they just mentioned it at the end, it must have just come through. Guess they don’t have much etail at the moment.

    Prepare for yabot to declare that this is all due to his hard work. ;)

  158. Tom, the whole thing was a media beat up in the first place. Wow, in 3rd world countries, people kill animals. And this was followed on via a hate thing about indigenous people killing turtles.

    Oh it’s so cruel, they kick ‘em before they die. Fine for people whose meat comes wraped in neat plakkie packaging from Coles or Woolies.

    Well yes Indonesia is prepared to meet ‘our standards’….I’m off, I’m goin’ I cannot express how hypocritical this whole story is.

  159. “Federal Agriculture Minister Joe Ludwig announce crisis is over”

    Now that is amazing. The minister manage to get the things back on track. It is more amazing as according to the Opposition the minister had mucked everything up. Nothing he did was right. The Opposition is sure this was the case, as some visited Indonesia to find out for themselves.

    These same Opposition leaders were demanding that the PM and FM get onto a plane to Indonesia before everyone is ruined.

    At least we did not have cattle on a boat for five months that occurred under Mr. Howard. By the way Mr. Howard did not go overseas to solve the problem. I believe the solution was messy and expensive.

    Of course that was different. That was under an Coalition government and it was only the Middle East.

    Now the cattle crisis is solved, we can hope that the Malaysian solution is announced tomorrow.

    This will a clean slate to deal with carbon pricing mechanism.

    The treasurer gave a comprehensive economic report today, only to have the Shadow Treasurer spend his time talking the eDoesn’t down. Doesnt the Shadow Treasurer understand he could be contributing to the lack of confidence in what is a strong economy, when compared to the rest of the world. Talking an economy down can become self fulfilling.

    Spreading gloom and doom maybe good policy for convincing people that the government is bad, but for people to believe this, they have to have no trust in the government, which means they have no trust in the future.

    I do hope that Mr. Abbott believes that trashing the economy is a fair price to pay, so he can take his rightful place as PM.

  160. Tim at his best

    just a snippet

    Look, how many times do I have to say this? While the media is running around distracting everyone with stories about keeping the Greens accountable, we are 18 months away from slipping into office with precisely zero costed policies, a climate change policy that defies climate science and all known economics, a communications policy that defies physics, an immigration policy that defies human decency and an industrial relations policy that, despite the best efforts of that dickhead Reith, has managed to just about bury the name WorkChoices, and we are likely to do it in a landslide.

    http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/2784702.html

  161. The sad thing about Tim Dunlop’s interpretation is that it’s so very close to what is happening. I hope that more people will read this and take due note about how close we are going to come to having Tony Abbott as our prime minister.

  162. ‘The sad thing about Tim Dunlop’s interpretation is that it’s so very close to what is happening.’

    I thought it was an absolute replica of what is happening.

    Look at how loudly ltd news is yelling about the ban on live exports being lifted, contrasted against how loudly they pushed the story about a farmer who was going to cull thousands of cattle because of it.

    This is how all of Labors achievements will be published, minimally, in conrast to the outrage over every ‘alleged’ stuff up.

  163. I LOVE this..such a wonderful visualisation :)

    He starts doing star-jumps again and as he jumps, he chants, ‘Big New Tax! Big New Tax!…’

    From the link to Tim at The Drum.

  164. Instead of news about the resumption of live cattle exports, we get this

    Carbon price revealed: Finally, here’s what it will cost

    http://www.news.com.au/features/environment/five-hundred-biggest-polluters-to-be-spared-by-23-carbon-tax/story-e6frflp0-1226089538952

    Mind you, it doesn’t say where they get their figures, and, since the government haven’t released any, they are still only guessing.

    ‘THE controversial carbon tax is expected to have a $23-a-tonne starting price’

    Then what are they talking about?
    Anything but live cattle it appears.

  165. Zac Goldsmith, a Conservative, said the Murdoch empire had become too powerful. “We have seen, I would say, systemic abuse of almost unprecedented power. There is nothing noble in what these newspapers have been doing.

    “Rupert Murdoch is clearly a very, very talented businessman, he’s possibly even a genius, but his organisation has grown too powerful and has abused that power. It has systematically corrupted the police and in my view has gelded this parliament to our shame.”
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/jul/06/metropolitan-police-phone-hacking

    And what is the response to this domination of power by News in the UK? We have Julie Bishop leading the charge for the government to explain why the Australia network contract has been delayed
    “The federal Opposition will demand the government produce all ‘‘non-commercial aspects’’ of reports and briefings by the assessment panel.

    Deputy Liberal leader Julie Bishop told The Age she was deeply concerned at the late changes to the tender process and questioned why Prime Minister Julia Gillard was personally involved and why Mr Rudd no longer had carriage of the process.

    The opposition motion will also seek correspondence between Ms Gillard, Mr Rudd, and Mr Conroy and their departments regarding the tender process.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/national/document-demand-over-regional-tv-deal-20110706-1h1pt.html#ixzz1RN511beT

    I suppose when the News flagship is giving your party a free ride than it is up to the party to pay up. Who better than the deputy leader to lead the way.

  166. “an immigration policy that defies human decency”

    I would say sending kids to Malaysia is indecent.

    And zero costed policies?? They will be costed before the election.

    But remember, Labor costed the NBN at $4.7B before the 2007 election. Only out by a factor of ten. And labor has no achievements. They only know how to tax and spend. I could run this economy O.K. for several years if I was handed unemployment at 4.3% and no govt debt and during the biggest mining boom ever.

    Tim Dunlop is wrong again

  167. TomR,
    I most definitely understanded. It’s a frightened thing to think that this man might be our prime minister. I didn’t agree with Mr Howard but compared with Mr Abbott, Mr Howard was a paragon of virtue.

  168. I’m going to tell Tim you said that Neil :evil:

    I suppose that it’s a wee bit difficult to cost policies when you have none…

  169. ‘They will be costed before the election.’

    lol, like they did at the last one

    Hope they kept a copy of that excel sheet

    And, considering the UNHCR appear to be happy with the Malaysia solution, why is it indecent? Or is the UNHCR indecent now?

  170. Neil said, “Mumble, yada,yada, mumble, mumble, bulls#!t, mumble, lies…” yet again. :roll:

  171. “lol, like they did at the last one”

    Well I would trust the Coalitions policies any day over a politicised Treasury. Remember when Treasury issued a new economic indicator called the “Structural Deficit”. Well Turnbull says it was released for political purposes and that new work by treasury says there may have been a structural deficit in Costello’s last budget. Completely different results to what Treasury put out in 2009.

    http://www.malcolmturnbull.com.au/media/speeches/budget-in-reply-speech-labor-wasting-the-boom/

    Talking about the alleged Structural deficit

    “But as Martin Parkinson, the Secretary of the Treasury, correctly pointed out on 17 May, estimates of this sort are always highly sensitive to the assumptions which underlie them and it is difficult to be entirely precise about the impact of changes over time in the terms of trade or, indeed, many other economic variables in the budget.

    Nonetheless, Kevin Rudd and Wayne Swan were entirely willing to use a crude earlier version of the Treasury’s work published in the 2009-10 budget without any such qualification to try and trash John Howard and Peter Costello’s reputations by claiming that they squandered the resources boom. In fact it appeared that the work had been commissioned for that very purpose…………….According to the Treasury’s central case the resources boom delivered a revenue windfall of about $25 billion over the last three budgets delivered by Peter Costello. Those three budgets were in surplus by $53 billion so all of the income from the boom and more was banked, although Treasury’s central case estimate suggests the budget was in a small structural deficit in 2007-08. So much for claims that the Howard government blew the boom!”

  172. If I may pop my head in for a quick hello – and no, Bacchus, I won’t be opening up the cellar doors – I’m aware that many people have been asking after me and I apologise that I’ve been unable to respond, but I thank all of you.

    Banjo, it’s good to see you here as well as the other new contributors and a hello again to our old friends Möbius, Mangrove Jack and Damo. Hello too to Debra, whose story was inspirational. For those who aren’t aware, Debra also suffers from lupus as I do. Lunalava also deserves congratulations on his good posts.

    Sue, as our memories of Howard dims it’s easy to forget how nasty he really was and as such we compare him favorably to Abbott. But believe me, he was and always will be one of the most treacherous politicians ever to grace (or disgrace) our political stage. The difference with Abbott is that he talks nasty but is a toothless tiger. Howard used to keep his mouth shut while proceeding to quietly carry on with his mean spirited policies.

    Pip, I don’t watch any footy these days as stress and lupus are not compatible. Besides, my team is losing. :)

    Tom R, not a word from you please on that matter. ;-)

    Min, keep up the great work.

  173. “But believe me, he was and always will be one of the most treacherous politicians ever to grace (or disgrace) our political stage.”

    Don’t agree.

    hard to be more devious than Gillard. More chance of being a full forward than challenging the PM didn’t she say.

    I think the people who voted for her are devious as well.

  174. hey Ho, Miglo, nice to see your smiling bonnet again, resting up well I trust.

    As for Neil’s statement “Well I would trust the Coalitions policies any day over a politicised Treasury”

    Question, Who politicised Treasury?, or was Godwin Grech just a figment of our collective imaginations and not really a liberal stooge, given the Labor party never changed any of the heads of department when they came into office, they were held over from the Howard years, hmmm me thinks you maybe just a little rusted on there, can I recommend a little WD40

  175. Augustus, I believe that Kevin Rudd said that he would not make changes to the public service..no vindictiveness on his part, no lopping of heads. Sadly sometimes one’s integrity can work against one….

  176. Tom R

    Obviously, had us all fooled, really a labor man, well blow me down that old leftie :)

  177. This editorial from the Guardian is worth a read, here is an exert
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/jul/06/phone-hacking-scandal-ministers-murdoch
    “For two or more years the normal checks and balances that should operate in a functioning democracy did not work very well in relation to the phone-hacking scandal at the News of the World which is now being stripped bare. ….

    The outlines of the story are familiar enough: it involves a giant media organisation presided over by one of the last great press tycoons, who has ruthlessly played at the boundaries of politics and business. As he grew larger, bolder and more successful, the less people in public life wanted to take him on. This reticence was well-founded, since it now transpires that his company retained criminals on the payroll to dig the dirt on anyone and everyone.”

    And this company appears to be running the political “debate” in this country. Where is the outcry, the history is before us ( “ruthlessly played at he boundaries of politics and business “) or are we just too apathetic?

  178. Thats exactly what he said Min, he even appointed ex Liberal MP’s to Government Advisory Boards and Missions, they haven’t taken his integrity they’ve just abused it, it will in the long run come back to bit them.

  179. Augustus, if Rudd isn’t an Asperger’s then I’ll eat my hat..far too naive and expected everyone to be as honest as he is – which is also why the MSM cannot cope with the fact that he can be just as happy as Foreign Minister as he was as PM – which is why he said that he could ‘mess with’ John Howard’s mind – which is why he couldn’t cope with Tony Abbott, because for an Aspie Tony Abbott does not compute.

  180. Augustus, although your offer of an iced lemongrass tea for Migs is doubtless appreciated I think that we would have to wrassle him, hog tie him and force it down his throat..doesn’t mix well with the cigar :D

  181. “Question, Who politicised Treasury?”

    The ALP.

    I do not recall Costello wheeling out Ken Henry like Swan did.

    And Turnbull stated the the Structural deficit study was instigated for political purposes to trash Costello.

  182. Min, “if Rudd isn’t an Asperger’s then I’ll eat my hat” you may very well have a point there.

    Hmmm…..

    Average or above-average intelligence
    Difficulties with high-level language skills such as verbal reasoning, problem solving, making inferences and predictions
    Difficulties in empathising with others
    Problems with understanding another person’s point of view
    Difficulties engaging in social routines such as conversations and‘small talk’
    Problems with controlling feelings such as anger, depression and anxiety
    A preference for routines and schedules which can result in stress or anxiety if a routine is disrupted
    Specialised fields of interest or hobbies.

    As I said you may have point there. I knew there was a reason I voted for him, people are mirrors to one another

  183. Costello used to quote Ken Henry regularly, in fact ’07 many were surprised that Ken Henry kept his job. Costello did his own trashing and nothing much to do with his performance as Treasurer – in fact Costello blamed Howard completely because Howard was too gutless to instigate reform just in case it impacted on the polls. Given the aforementioned, Costello also didn’t have the guts to challenge. And so we waved a fond farewell to both Howard and Costello.

  184. “since the government haven’t released any, they are still only guessing.”

    Maybe they are not. Maybe they have tapped the cabinet room. Joking??

    Neil. I see you are back, attempting to get your boring loop going again. Good luck.

    Neil, it is not too good for these kids in Indonesia or elsewhere. This is why the parents put them on leaking boats.

    If the devious PM is able to give them some hope by setting up a regional assessment region and possible access to Australia, area, so be it.

    I do not particularly like the PM solution, I am one that cannot see why they are not process quickly in Australia and if refugees, allowed to get on with their lives.

    Many of these people would have had access under previous family reunion provisions.

    This is not politically possible and what the PM is offering is second best. The refugees will be making the decision that will end up to them being sent to Malaysia when they board the boat, not us.

    I am having another whinge, which Neil believes I am good at. Last night I decided to look in on the Senate QT, to see what the new regime is like.

    I was disgusted at the behaviour of the Opposition, mainly Corey, the idiot that done that dance and Brandt. They continually heckled and abused Senator Wong. Their heckling bordered closely on abuse and was allowed by the chair.

    Senator Wong was told on more than one occasion to ignore this heckling. It was nearly impossible for her to talk over the rabble.

    What annoyed me more was that it appeared this treatment was reserved for senator Wong. The Labor men appear to be treated with respect, if that is possible for the Opposition.

  185. I believed that one of Mr. Rudd’s greatest mistakes was in not clearing out the PS when he took office.

    It is long past that PS are neutral. This cannot be as they no longer have tenure and are appointed on contract.

    We now have the worse of both the USA and British system. We need to decide whether they are PS or government appointees, that go when the government does.

  186. CU, Rudd was critised for not clearing out the PS when Labor took office, but Rudd said that he wanted more bi-partisanship and was prepared to put his money where his mouth was.

  187. ‘And Turnbull stated the the Structural deficit study was instigated for political purposes to trash Costello.’

    turnbull said something about a ute too from memory :shock:

    really nil, you need to get better speech writers

  188. TomR

    Did you read the link?? Are you going to trash the whole article over one small point.

    Turnbull stated the treasuries work was done again and found to be wrong. New analysis gave a different result.

    Costello saves $50B in his last three years and he left a structural deficit?? That makes no sense.

  189. Here is the link again if you want to read it talking about the alleged structural deficit.

    http://www.malcolmturnbull.com.au/media/speeches/budget-in-reply-speech-labor-wasting-the-boom/

    “Nonetheless, Kevin Rudd and Wayne Swan were entirely willing to use a crude earlier version of the Treasury’s work published in the 2009-10 budget without any such qualification to try and trash John Howard and Peter Costello’s reputations by claiming that they squandered the resources boom. In fact it appeared that the work had been commissioned for that very purpose.”

    This is why Conservatives do not trust Treasury

  190. Re: This is why Conservatives do not trust Treasury… They did when they were in government.

  191. ‘Did you read the link?’

    No. Try and give us a link from someone a little less, er, partisan to the issue. Or does no economist agree with them on that either?

  192. Neil, sadly you still haven’t got a clue what you’re talking about and you’re not interested in helping yourself to relevent information.

  193. “Or does no economist agree with them on that either?”

    All people try to do is trash Costello. He saved $50B in his last three years.

    According to his enemies this was due to China, worldwide prosperity, dumb luck, mining boom whatever.

    You are correct. Not many economists give him any credit. It says something about what humans are like regarding being truthful.

    How could Costello have wasted the boom when he saved $50B?? Treasury analysis says he got an extra $25B from the boom not the extra $334B you see quoted by some people.

  194. I found $150 on the road the other week, went to pub, and blew $100. My wife reckons I wasted it. I reckon it was money well spent (well, until the following day :( )

    (the above is actually merely an illustration. I would’ve actually blown the lot if I came across that kinda cash)

  195. Costello blew $334 billion instead of spending it on worthwhile infrastructure.
    While he was blowing all that moola he was talking about dozens of ships lined up and unable to get into port

  196. Well from Turnbulls link Labor has got an extra $90B from the boom.

    “During the four budgets delivered so far by Labor in this term of government the Treasury figures from October last year suggest that the federal government has benefited from a terms of trade windfall of at least $90 billion, with the largest single boost coming in the 2011-12 financial year we are about to commence”

  197. Well you may mock TomR but you lot said Costello wasted the boom. He actually saved all of the extra money.

    Now that the mining boom is bigger then ever how much has Swan saved??

    The answer is nothing. he has squandered the whole lot.

    “Costello blew $334 billion instead of spending it on worthwhile infrastructure.”

    Yes I have seen that number before. Turnbull says it is a load of crap. Comonsense (if you had any) would tell you that number is way too large to be true. The actual number is $25B.

    And Swan is getting more revenue than Costello. have a look at this

    http://www.rba.gov.au/statistics/frequency/commodity-prices/2011/icp-0611.html

  198. I always think that costello was like the b… treasurer we had on a school P&C. we the committee worked hard all year raising money to buy equipment for the kids, then the b…. treasurer was so pleased with the bank balance he decided to leave the money in the bank for the following years committee. all that work done and we the workers didn’t get the opportunity to get equipment for our children.
    yep the bank account was healthy but our kids missed out, for yet another year.
    costello was smug about “his” money in fact he even decided he wanted to lock it away in a future fund so that the country could not use it. bugger the ports, bugger the hospitals (all except the one hospital in tassie howard flew out to rescue) bugger any infrastructure it was all about “his” surplus.
    so costello lovers the surplus comes from taxes of the country and belongs to the country not any single treasurer.

  199. Phone hacking update
    “News of the World hires QC involved in botched hacking inquiry”
    The former director of public prosecutions Lord Macdonald QC – who was implicated in the initial botched inquiry into phone hacking – has joined News International as a paid adviser to aid its legal case over allegations that News of the World journalists paid police for information.
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/jul/07/news-of-the-word-hires-ex-dpp

    The sh.. just keeps piling up.
    Yep tell everyone there really isn’t much of a case and then go and get the really big bickies from the bad guys.

  200. Min, you would have to scream to get over his yelling.

    The man appears unable to talk in a normal tone.

    The PM is very composed and calm at all times. I have this belief that people like the PM do have their breaking point and Mr. Abbott will need to ensure he has some industrial ear plugs on hand when it happens.

  201. “yep the bank account was healthy but our kids missed out,”

    You people are incredible. I have seen many ALP supporters showing graphs about our low levels of debt compared to the rest of the world. Why do you think our debt levels are so low?? Costello wanted to pay off our debt and thank goodness that he did.

    And they spent plenty on infrastructure. Why don’t you just admit it. No matter what Costello did, whether good or bad you would still condemn.

  202. CU, I think that I caught a snippet..something about us being incredible people, and indeed we are.

  203. CU, the PM is Welsh and a redhead..watch the fur fly when she does let loose. At the moment the PM is brushing Abbott aside as a minor annoyance while she gets on with the real job at hand, but one day he will cross that invisible line…

  204. So News of the World will close and Murdoch distances himself and the family from further damage. Let’s look at his well crafted reasons:

    “He said (Murdoch) that if allegations that a private investigator working for the Sunday tabloid hacked the voicemail of a teenage girl who was later found murdered were true, they were “inhuman”.”

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/07/08/3264142.htm

    Suggesting that IF it is true then he knew nothing about it.

    Well I say he is still down there with the gutter press. The best thing he could do is sell out of Newspapers and move into something more ethical -oh I don’t know – maybe arms dealing or human organ acquisition.

  205. Further into the story:

    “The National Union of Journalists said it was Ms Brooks, not the paper’s journalists, who should be fired: “It is the people at the top who need to be punished, not ordinary working journalists,” the union said.”

    Ah yes the Nuremberg excuse “We were just following orders”.
    Well the UK journalists went along to get along. Now they can just get along to the unemployment office or emigrate to Australia and learn how to drive an ore truck.

  206. More proof (as if were needed) That their ABC has take another step down the dumb and dumber path with its latest trash “poll”

    “Opinion Poll – Have your vote

    The Greens now have control of the Senate. Does this:
    – Usher in a new dawn
    – Open the floodgates
    – Mean business as usual
    – Spell trouble
    – Make Fielding look good”

    Well my preferred choice is “none of the above”. How about they sack the writer of this rubbish, along with the online editor who approved it.

    This stuff is chewing gum for the eyes. Not good enough ABC.

  207. luna..I’m amazed that they didn’t ask Who is the spunkiest, Bob Brown or Justin Bieber..

  208. Eddie @ 11.23 you may be interested in this, phone hacking

    Media Matters, which monitors right-wing media outlets, recently confronted Murdoch personally on camera whether he could assure Americans that his US outlets had not committed any phone hacking. Murdoch replied: “I have nothing to say.”
    Ilyse Hogue, who runs Media Matters’ News Corp Watch project, said that they were making formal approaches to the US Congress. The campaign is calling on congressional committees responsible for protecting the privacy of American citizens to launch investigations into whether any breaches have been carried out by the company in the US.
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/jul/07/murdoch-phone-hacking-scandal-us?intcmp=239

    Now who is going to ask our government to investigate the actions of the Murdoch press in Australia?

  209. I just love this line

    Former deputy prime minister Lord Prescott, one of the alleged victims of phone hacking, said that closing the paper would not resolve the problems at News International.

    “Cutting off the arm doesn’t mean to say you’ve solved it. There is still the body and the head and the same culture and that’s why there has be a public inquiry into it,” he said.
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/media/press/chris-bryant-now-closure-bid-to-protect-rebekah-brooks-2308607.html

    And that head and body has too much influence in Australia

  210. Luna lava, I heard on the BBC that two days ago, ‘News’ registered a new Sunday paper, to be called Sunday Sun.
    So, they’ve dumped the bad name and it will be business as usual with a new name, without really missing a beat.

  211. Eddie thanks for the link..looks as if the BSkyB deal will be left until September , but what’s the bet, it will be approved

  212. Sue, we should all be asking the government to investigate the actions of Murdoch’s minions in Australia, and while they’re at it they should act on the Murdoch influence on the ABC.

  213. There is a poll in the age asking whether Murdoch”s Sky should be allowed to run australia’s overseas network

    currently 92% say No
    Maybe the public is listening

  214. Sue, the Sky poll is a sign that the public is listening this week with all the Murdoch muck in the news,
    Just as well they didn’t ask last week :grin:

  215. Apparently the tender for the Australia Network did not include “a fit and proper person” test, no wonder Sky was on a winner.

    “But a spokesman for Senator Conroy said the new tender criteria sought to identify what steps a bidder would take to ensure Australia’s national interests were served.”

    Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/national/murdoch-scandal-could-hit-tv-bid-20110707-1h4x3.html#ixzz1RSvJFE5c

    Even contracts on footballers expect the “Fit and proper person test” and look how well that has worked out.

  216. Pip, I do not believe it will be approved.

    The PM showed insight by putting the deal on whole. I am sure her action would have been influence by what was being reported overseas. I seen somewhere that Mr. Rudd support the PM’s action

    As many on these sites know, the Murdoch story has been going for months. It just has not been reported in our media, including the ABC.I noticed that in the last couple of days, the ABC is making up for lost time.

  217. I’m not certain which topic it was on, but recently the BER ‘disaster’ was mentioned..well here is some factual information (at last) on the ‘disaster’.

    Thumbs-up for BER, despite problems in NSW, Victoria

    More than 23,670 construction projects have been delivered to Australian schools under the federal government’s $16.2 billion BER stimulus program, designed to combat the global financial crisis.

    Complaints were lodged by 3.5 per cent of school communities. Of the 322 complaints investigated by the taskforce, more than 51 per cent came from NSW public schools.

    So that’s it folks, a 3.5% complaint rate – how many businesses can boast those numbers…. And the other point of the article being that half these came from NSW schools and the administration of the scheme by the previous NSW government.

    http://www.smh.com.au/national/thumbsup-for-ber-despite-problems-in-nsw-victoria-20110708-1h75j.html

  218. Well I guess it is how you present the data.

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/ber-waste-tops-15b/story-fn59niix-1226090622303

    “MORE than $1.5 billion has been wasted in the eastern states under the federal Government’s Building the Education Revolution schools stimulus program, with the nation’s two biggest states failing to provide value for money under the program.

    The third and final report into the BER, conducted by former investment banker Brad Orgill, has found Victorian and NSW, have not delivered value for money for public schools under the program with public schools charged an average of up to 60 per cent more for school buildings, despite no differences in quality.”

  219. ‘Well I guess it is how you present the data. ‘

    Or if you make your own numbers up, and just ignore what the actual report says

    The article reaches the figure of 1.5 billion by “Comparing the rates charged to public schools in the eastern states … to the rates paid by Catholic schools.” However, the BERIT Final report does not say this. It does not conclude that the differences in cost per square metre ammounts to waste.

    http://blogs.crikey.com.au/purepoison/2011/07/08/weekend-talk-thread-july-8-10/comment-page-1/#comment-57591

    Hot on the heals of being busted lying to their readers by Lambert in regards to AGW, they now do the same with the BER (again)

    Like the mob here need to hack peoples phones like their English counterparts. They just make their stuff up, no need to bother with technical barriers, its so much easier writing what you know your masters want to hear

  220. Err Neil again your narrow narrow mind only reads into that News Ltd prejudiced piece what it want to portray. That article deliberately skews the waste figure by attempting to compare apples with pears. There is a good break down of its misdirection doing the rounds if you would care to educate yourself for once, which of course in your typical way you won’t. You will never ever be open and see what you don’t want to see.

    But even that article shows a complaint rate of 3.5% which any business would give their right arm to have, let alone being achieved by the largest ever infrastructure program ever undertaken in Australia and one that was rapidly rolled out and saved us during a world wide financial crisis. That part isn’t measured in that article.

    Of course Neil what you would have liked see happen is the government do what the opposition at the time wanted them to that would have meant massive unemployment and whole scale industry and business closures, which you could have blamed on the Labor government.

  221. You get a lot less complaints when things are handed out for free.

    From the report “The NSW Government performance has been impressive in its speed of implementation but there are too many examples of poor quality, and lack of value for money project outcomes. The Victorian Government performance on implementing BER has been mixed. High quality template design and low program fees have been offset by a slow rollout, inadequate project oversight and systemic quality issues. Both the NSW and Victorian governments have suffered from a lack of public works capacity in implementing the BER program. The Taskforce is encouraged by both authorities’ recent efforts and attention to resolve issues to improve school outcomes.”

    The roof insulation scheme was so riddled by rorting that The Government stopped its own scheme. It will be many years before we get the full picture of how good/bad was the BER. Sometimes quality issues take a few years to be seen.

    But I guess you lot would say we needed quick spending to save us from the GFC and wasting money was needed to get spending quickly

  222. It will be many years before we get the full picture of how good/bad was the BER.

    Code for it will be many years we will continue to falsely attack the scheme and make up things about it.

    3.5% Neil, bloody fantastic in anyone’s books, that’s one figure you cannot downplay. IT companies work on a failure/complaint rate of 40-60% as being successful, large private infrastructure project managers would give their teeth for a success figure like that, even more remarkable in a project rapidly rolled out nationally and being the largest infrastructure project undertaken by an Australian government.

  223. “Code for it will be many years we will continue to falsely attack the scheme and make up things about it.”

    I would have preferred to spend the money on railroads and ports. I cannot see how nice new assembly halls is going to add to our country. But Labor said we needed to spend money quickly and I guess that is what happened.

    What i find strange is that before the 2007 election anything the media said that was bad about the Howard govt was believed by ALP supporters.

    Now when the media says something bad about the ALP govt, ALP supporters spend hours going over the original reports to check what the media said was correct.

  224. “I would encourage people to red the actuall report,”

    See that it was I mean. You would not have said that if this was a report into a Howard govt project with bad media.

    The Australian has run a lot of articles saying the program was wasted money with lots of rorting but I found this interesting

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/things-go-better-without-cola/story-fn59niix-1226091042115

    “IT was the exercise in bungled bureaucracy that lifted the acronym COLA — covered outdoor learning area — from the parlance of playgrounds and planning offices into the vernacular……………………………………………………………………….None of the schools lodged an official complaint with the Orgill taskforce.”

    I wonder how many schools were unhappy but did not lodge complaints???

  225. You would not have said that if this was a report into a Howard govt project with bad media.

    I’m sure you would have (and did) linked to a Lieberal party sites spinning the necessary lies about such reports though :roll:

  226. ‘I wonder how many schools were unhappy but did not lodge complaints?’

    Lets play

    I wonder how many schools were happy but did lodge complaints?

    And, of course, providing the actual source of the information is somehow wrong? And yes, we often went to the actual reports with howie. I recall one report that specifically mentioned ‘rorting’, when you complained the media were making it up. I can see why you are not a fan of the actual source.

    It is always good to see the actual report, cos, as we know, journos just can’t be trusted

  227. ‘linked to a Lieberal party sites ‘

    exactly, nil has an issue with the actual reports, but then wants us to read opinions from liberal members as some kind of proof

    Talk about living with the Faeries

  228. “I recall one report that specifically mentioned ‘rorting’”

    I do not recall that.

    If you are talking about the report I think you are, the report did mention that the Howard govt overturned 3% of the recomendations by the PS. 97% of the projects followed PS advice.

    The media reported massive Howard govt manipulation of grants.

  229. There is also the ipsey whipsey fact that the BER was ADMINISTERED by the STATES. The ‘rorts’ when they did occur were their responsibility unless it is expected that the Federal government micro-manage every brick laid and every piece of timber purchased.

  230. “1 GrogsGamut Greg Jericho
    The Daily Tel: “BER Gets Thumbs-up”; SMH “Thumbs-up for BER”; The Oz: “BER waste blows out to $1.1bn”.
    These outlets are reporting on the same BER report.
    http://blogs.crikey.com.au/purepoison/2011/07/08/weekend-talk-thread-july-8-10/comment-page-1/#comment-57591

    Which source do we believe?

    ……………………………………………

    “More than 23,670 construction projects have been delivered to Australian schools under the federal government’s $16.2 billion BER stimulus program, designed to combat the global financial crisis.
    Complaints were lodged by 3.5 per cent of school communities. Of the 322 complaints investigated by the taskforce, more than 51 per cent came from NSW public schools.
    The NSW government also had the highest average costs per project in the country, at $3448 per square metre for all classrooms, halls and libraries built, reflecting the high fees paid to managing contractors because of the state’s decreased public works capacity.
    While the BER scheme has been attacked by the federal opposition as a waste of money, the president of the NSW Primary Principals Association, Jim Cooper, said the majority of schools had benefited from infrastructure that otherwise would not have been funded.
    A minority of schools were unhappy with buildings, he said, but “there are going to be some hiccups” when implementing “such a massive project”.
    The president of the Federation of Parents and Citizens’ Associations of NSW, Helen Walton, said there were cases when P&C associations had to pay for basics such as curtains, air-conditioning and heating after project costs blew out.
    But, overall, she said, “the end product was usually of good quality and provided something to which the school would otherwise not have had access
    http://www.smh.com.au/national/thumbsup-for-ber-despite-problems-in-nsw-victoria-20110708-1h75j.html“.”

    “The use of large construction companies as “project managers”, in Victoria, Queensland and NSW, substantially contributed to the big cost differences between the cost of buildings delivered to government and non-government schools.

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/ber-waste-tops-15b/story-fn59niix-1226090622303

    Not too many outrageous complaints here. The bottom line is that schools now have facilities they did not have before. The facilities they now have would have been seen as impossible before the GFC.

    I would like to add that the money that could have been saved by going slower has not as been alleged by some wasted.

    This money kept workers in jobs, where they continued to pay taxes and not be a drag on welfare. The materials used, kept firms open and their staff in jobs, paying taxes and not being a drag on welfare. Whenever the government spends money this way, the least a third comes straight back in taxes.

    Bankrupt business and the unemployed add nothing to the bottom line. What happens is these people add to government outlays.

    It is a shame that in this country, the private sector sees nothing wrong in ripping off the taxpayers.

    We have now had numerous enquiries into this programme with no corruption or rorts being found.

    Mr. Hunt’s reply to this report was that we need another because according to him, there was not able to be an in depth investigation. I think enough is enough.

    The Oppositions biggest trouble in this regard is that is the norm with them, over exaggerated the alleged wrong doings of the Rudd government.

    The same result has been found in all the investigations to the home insulation scheme. No government corruption found. Sadly there was corruption by the private sector that was trusted to install the insulation.

    I believe where the government was inept, was allowing a knee jerk reaction to the media beat up and withdrawing the scheme, leaving many honest workers and companies up the garden path.

    What amazes me is all the Opposition can only raise the BER, home installation scheme and the “lie”, rehashing the same stories from the previous government to attack this government. If this government was as bad as claimed, the list should be growing, not struck in the past.

    WHAT WOULD LIKE TO SAY, IS THAT MR. ABBOTT NEEDS US TO REMAIN IN THE PAST, REHASHING THIS RUBBISH AS AN DIVERSION FROM WHAT IS BEING DONE TODAY BY THE GOVERNMENT.

    MR. ABBOTT’S GREATEST FEAR IS THAT PEOPLE WILL LISTEN TO THE GOVERNMENT.

    MANY ARE SAYING THEY WILL NOT LISTEN TOMORROW AND ARE ENCOURAGING OTHERS TO DO THE SAME. SADLY THEY WILL BE FIRST TO PASS COMMENT ON PM GILLARD PROPOSITION. THEY DO NOT NEED THE FACTS TO DO SO.

    NEIL AND EL GORDO AND THEIR ELK, DO NOT CARE WHAT WE THINK OR BELIEVE. ALL THEY ARE INTERESTED IN IS KEPING US IN THE PAST WHILE THEY RECYCLE THE SAME MESSAGE OVER AND OVER. THE PAST HAS BEEN DONE TO DEATH AND UNLESS THERE IS NEW INFORMATION, WE ARE WASTING TIME AND OPPORTUNITY BUYING INTO THEIR TACTICS.

    WHAT I DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHY WE ALLOW THEM TO CONTROL THESE SITES BY BUYING INTO DIVERSION TACTIS.

    WE NEED TO LEAVE THEM TALKING TO THEMSELVES AND MOVE ON

    WHAT IS IMPORTANT NOW IS WHAT THE GOVERNENT IS DOING AND WHETHER IT IS GOOD FOR AUSTRALIA.

    I AM NOT INTERESTED IN WHETHER PEOPLE LIKE THE PM. THAT IS ONLY THEIR OPINION AND IS OF NO INTEREST TO ME.

    WHAT I AM INTERESTED IN, IS WHAT THE PM IS DOING. TO KNOW THAT YOU HAVE TO LISTEN, NOT RELY ON WHAT THE MSM AND THE ABC SAY.

    SORRY THIS IS SO LONG BUT I AM A LITTLE WEARY OF THE MISINFORMATION ABOARD.

  231. I ask Neil to refrain from taking sentences out of context, to give them different meaning that the conclusions the report came to.

    Do not forget, this is the enquiry the Opposition demanded and they are a little pissed off that it did not reveal the smoking gun.

    Mr. Hunt is saying further investigations are needed.

  232. “Mr. Hunt is saying further investigations are needed.”

    The Opposition are unable to accept umpire decisions.

    They have the same opinion to the results of the last election. What they see as fair, is that you keep going until they get the results they want.

    If they were gamblers, they would be bankrupt.

    I think as a political party they are now bankrupt. They have nothing new to offer.

    The world has moved on. We should too.

  233. (Mr Pyne, playing slinkies: Can’t build school halls? Can’t introduce a carbon tax

    ————————–

    I would encourage people to red the actuall report, so they can see…

    Yes!

    It’s why I’m quite enjoying the ABC’s product developments; eg…

    NSW, Victoria rate poorly in BER report

    …access to report under ‘related links’, original post and updated post times noted; still more work to be done so that the substance of those update-revisions are rendered transparent, though; but, that stands in contrast with News’s habit of revisioning without any acknowledgement of its having done so, and its failing to supply relatively-important links, because it’s already relating the news ‘from every angle’. Imho, norms worth demanding, as an ‘informed buyer’ of media(ted) wares, perhaps.)

  234. While we’re on the subject of ‘fair and balanced’ reporting…..

    Enjoy :smile:

    { Dr. House does Rupert }

    A bit of Fry and Laurie – It’s a Soaraway Life
    Stephen and Hugh that is.

  235. From Twitter.

    FoxNewsAu FoxNewsAu by prestontowers
    The Bolt Report to leave Network Ten and switch to FoxNews Australia from January 2012 when we launch on Foxtel. http://t.co/80usqlS #auspol

    Warning
    If you click to the link all you’ll find is the Dolt Report web page, not news of the move to Fox News

  236. “I would encourage people to red the actuall report, so they can see…”

    Well i have not read the report but I did read the abstract for the report and it said this

    “The Victorian Government performance on implementing BER has been mixed. High quality template design and low program fees have been offset by a slow rollout, inadequate project oversight and systemic quality issues……………….The Taskforce has observed a number of construction industry wide issues including deficiencies in the quality of workmanship, project management, public works capacity and in the framework of private certification”

    Now “systemic quality issues” sounds like more than 3% had problems. Systemic would mean something like 30-40%.

    The BER was like the roof insulation, just not as bad. And it now means we have to pay the money back with interest. I guess the private schools must like their new assembly halls.

  237. Now “systemic quality issues” sounds like more than 3% had problems
    Yes, with area of quality. This does not mean that they were rorts, just that quality could have been better. They also go on, in htat introduction, to emphasis that they also take the speed of the rollout into account. Somehting you forgot to mention I guess

  238. I also understand only too well that this issue is being whipped up to hysterical levels by media and ideological competitors hoping for an advantage.

    http://blogs.crikey.com.au/purepoison/2011/07/09/i-am-told-but-am-not-able-to-verify/

    This is dolts defense of murdochs tablets in England. I compared this to hysterical levels of ideological whipping in relaton to the BER in the oo this morning, and just couldn’t believe the gullibility he expects from his followers. Then I thought, this idiot gets a full hour of television time to repeat these idiotocracies.

    This summed it up beautifully

    The Daily Tel: “BER Gets Thumbs-up”; SMH “Thumbs-up for BER”; The Oz: “BER waste blows out to $1.1bn”

    http://blogs.crikey.com.au/purepoison/2011/07/08/weekend-talk-thread-july-8-10/comment-page-1/#comment-57641
    :shock:

  239. The Daily Tel: “BER Gets Thumbs-up”; SMH “Thumbs-up for BER”; The Oz: “BER waste blows out to $1.1bn”

    Which one did Neil believe and quote?

  240. I did quote from the Oz but I also quoted from the report itself. Twice. A bit selective there. I also do not read the Telegraph or SMH much. I will repeat the quote from the BER abstract

    ““The Victorian Government performance on implementing BER has been mixed. High quality template design and low program fees have been offset by a slow rollout, inadequate project oversight and systemic quality issues……………….The Taskforce has observed a number of construction industry wide issues including deficiencies in the quality of workmanship, project management, public works capacity and in the framework of private certification”

    Systemic quality issues. What percentage do you think they were talking about when they said “systemic”???

  241. CU @2:13

    I bet you won’t see the OO, the O, their repeater station ABC and their mindless automatons mention another government success in the suspension of the live cattle trade.

    The Indonesian government has come back and stated that because of the Gillard government’s actions they will now clean up their cattle slaughter industries and abattoirs and thank the Australian government for their actions on this front. The Australian cattle industry has also stated they will look at their industry in light of the suspension.

    Outcome. Better and more humane live animal trade and cattle slaughter industries directly because of an ABC expose and our government’s response.

    Of course we can expect the usual for years to come to continue to espouse this as yet another Labor government failure despite the evidence and statements by those in authority to the contrary.

  242. Shorter Neil. Admit selective quoting and reading an MSM outlet known for its deceits and distortions then repeat selective quoting out of context, and repeat and repeat and repeat.

  243. And here is the fact of the matter “The government has previously offered Mr Abbott briefings on this issue, which he has failed to attend.”

  244. Lets quote some more from the actual report

    Given the context in which the BER program was delivered, it is a testament to those involved that the
    Taskforce has still only received 332 complaints, over three per cent of BER schools across the nation
    and at an overall premium on pre-BER business as usual costs of five to six per cent.

    and they get ‘BER waste blows out’ out of that

    ROFL

  245. “Admit selective quoting and reading an MSM outlet known for its deceits and distortions then repeat selective quoting out of context”

    No selective quoting. They admitted systemic quality issues. What point do you think they were trying to make???

    TomR.

    I already gave you a link where people wanted to complain but didn’t. It is hard to complain when you get something for free. If you believe the 3 % figure you are a fool.

    “Systemic Quality Issues”

    It was like the roof insulation but not as bad. But I guess if you people believe we needed to waste money to save us from the GFC you may have a point.

  246. Min

    Nothing i guess.

    If it was Howard spending the money you would have said he was doing it to buy votes.

    I got the insulation. They arrived and finished within 60 minutes and charged the rebate. It was a waste of taxpayers dollars.

    Nothing wrong with insulation but i think it was a poor spend of taxpayers money.

    If it saved us from the GFC you may have a point.

    Min- it was our hard earned money. they spend like drunken sailors.

    If the govt gave me a new front gate for free I would not complain.

  247. Neil, if Howard had ever done anything so practical and useful as pay for insulation I would would have applauded him for his effort – but he never did.

    Insulation was an excellent scheme. It targetted the elderly and lower income earners in older homes, because of course all newer homes and the upper income earners would in the majority already have insulation.

    And therefore the elderly and the lower income earners received a double benefit, their homes insulated plus from then on a reduction in their power bills – heating and cooling.

    I am certain that a number of wealthy people jumped in to have their houses and even investment properties insulated and so in my opinion the scheme should have been means tested..but there are always those mostly the greedy/well to do who will try to rort any scheme.

  248. ‘I already gave you a link where people wanted to complain but didn’t.’

    No you didn’t. You gave a link where there were issues, issues that got sorted, and the schools appeared to be happy with the result. There was no mention of them not ending up satisfied.

  249. Min

    Orgil stated in his report that there was wasted money

    “Taskforce has observed a number of construction industry wide issues including deficiencies in the quality of workmanship, project management, public works capacity and in the framework of private certification”

    The Australian stated that $1.5B was wasted. This is something we should question. This happened with the insulation scheme. We should all want value for taxpayers dollars. The insulation scheme was so bad Labor abolished their own scheme. next waste will be the NBN. can you imagine the rorting that will occur??

    We could have all got our teeth fixed for free for $1.5B of wasted BER money.

  250. Oops, my bad nil, a School P&C president reckons the school “definitely” could have been delivered better value for money.

    Wonder why the school didn’t complain? Perhaps it’s because they were satisfied? Even she didn’t say she wasn’t satisfied, just that she wanted more

  251. ‘Orgil stated in his report that there was wasted money’

    No, he said there were deficiencies in the construction industry, not a waste of money. It’s not the same thing nil.

    ‘The Australian stated that $1.5B was wasted.’

    Yes, but the report doesn’t.

    ‘This is something we should question.’

    Yes, where does the oo come up with there figures?

  252. Tom..I hope that you are kidding, the font of all knowledge is a P&C president. This is with due respect to P&Cs but they are not elected due to their knowledge of anything in particular, not their knowledge of education, not their knowledge of managing building constructions. Who exactly was the P&C President, what is this person’s field of expertise. P&Cs are great and I’ve been on a few of them but I would not be basing my opinion on any one P&C President….

  253. TomR
    From the media release

    “The NSW Government performance has been impressive in its speed of implementation but there are too many examples of poor quality, and lack of value for money project outcomes. The Victorian Government performance on implementing BER has been mixed. High quality template design and low program fees have been offset by a slow rollout, inadequate project oversight and systemic quality issues.”

    WTF do you think “too many examples of poor quality, and lack of value for money outcomes” means?????

  254. “She said the school of about 330 students would have been better off had the money been spent more wisely……………None of the schools lodged an official complaint with the Orgill taskforce”

    Neil. you obviously never attended a Mother’s Club or PC meeting at a school.

    I reared four children and seen it a duty to do so.

    Agreement on anything was hard to get.

    The disagreements ranged from how the money was raised to how it was spent.

    The meetings were often animated and friendships sometimes finished.

    I am sure there are others at the school that disagreed with that persons opinion on what was most needed.

    Teachers and parents, often judge the needs through their own eyes and what benefits them and their children most.

    Throwing the whole process open to parent and staff discretion would have led to very few projects getting off the ground.

  255. ‘lack of value for money project outcomes’ means what it says it means, but it doesn’t necessarily mean ‘wasted’. speed of implementation was also a requisite of this program, and from all accounts, NSW achieved this. You sould understand that you often sacrifice cost for speed. So, perhaps, in normal circumstances, value for money may have been better, but, considering that the aim of the rollout was speed, then saying the money was ‘wasted’ is not accurate. It is in fact, highly misleading.

  256. I remember that in 12 years of Howard Liberal government, he managed to give schools a bit over $1000 to install a flag pole. There was a catch however, the opening ceremony had to be done by a member of the coalition government – even when the school was in a seat held by the Labor party.
    Never heard any complaints about Howard overspending on schools – nobody dared.

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