Café Talk XIV

Café Talk, Bathurst edition.

394 comments on “Café Talk XIV

  1. I didn’t do any good with the cup but I’ve got a really good chance running in tomorrow’s elections.

    Not exactly a horse, but a mate of Prof Mitchell’s, Warren Mosler, Independent MMT candidate from the Virgin Islands.

    Mosler has a blog site that covers amongst other things, Modern Monetary Theory, which along with our Bill Mitchell, he was instrumental in developing.

  2. CU and I were having a bit of fun last week (Cafe Talk XIII) ridiculing Robb and Abbott for some silly things they were saying about the economy.

    Robb had been on ABC 24 talking about how the government is just like any household and “has to live within in its means”

    Abbott was saying that Swan will not give Australians “the surplus they deserve”.

    To students of monetary economics such comments trigger paroxysms of laughter.

    Abbott and Robb might just as well be walking the streets carrying large banners saying “I haven’t a clue what I’m taking about when it comes to economics”

    OK, I’m no authority, so it’s almost a private joke, but here’s a really great explanation from a highly respected US Professor of Economics, Stephanie Kelton as to why we find Abbott and Robb so amusing.

    http://moslereconomics.com/2012/10/30/stephanie-kelton-interview/

    Kelton is being interviewed by Harry Shearer on NPR.

    It’s one of the best explanations I’ve heard from an academic, and right at the end there’s a real treat, Ry Cooder and “Money Honey” (well I think it’s Ry Cooder)

  3. I’m hearing stories that The Bolt Report has been axed. Confirmation needed.

    I hope this is right (pun intended). If Channel 10 cannot afford to maintain journalists to inform the public they shouldn’t be able to foist on the public what amounts to no more than a Liberal propagandist either.

  4. PAUL KELLY
    Labor trapped in front of its own surplus target…
    “AS the Gillard government agonises about how much to commit or qualify its 2012-13 surplus forecast, the stakes involved for Labor remain vast in financial, political and psychological terms.
    Julia Gillard and Wayne Swan have had every chance to abandon the surplus forecast, notably last year when the debt crisis in Europe deepened or when the successive hits in tax revenue were revealed.
    They declined. The reason is the surplus has a deeper meaning and the economic deterioration to justify its abandonment has not yet arrived. A foundation stone of Labor’s re-election, the surplus is tied into Labor’s credibility, the Coalition’s critique and the Treasury’s reputation….

    This week Deloitte Access Economics released its own budget numbers with its director, Chris Richardson, more in sorrow than in anger, disagreeing with the mid-year review, and predicting a $4.2 billion deficit this year and a deterioration in 2013-14 with a $5.1bn deficit. Richardson says the budget does not return to surplus for another three years, not until 2015-16.

    He made the required disclaimers. He thinks the structure of the budget is getting better. He applauds the tough decisions in Labor’s mid-year review that forecast a reduced surplus of $1.1bn this year. He knows that commodity prices make budget forecasts harder to get right. And he thinks that, in economic terms, the deficits “are simply too small to get too excited about”. In short, it is no economic disaster if the budget stays in the red.
    But Labor cannot afford such luxury. It has taken a stand on the principle of a return to surplus. Indeed, it was re-elected on this platform….

    The opposition was always sceptical. Hockey has long said Labor will not deliver a 2012-13 surplus because it lacks the character and, if it does, it won’t be a real surplus. For Gillard and Swan, the humiliation of proving Hockey right would be immense.
    It would condemn Labor’s record, judgment and courage. It would cancel the fiscal credit Labor has already banked over the past two years for its assumed realisation of the surplus. But there are further problems: failure to achieve surplus would undermine, perhaps cripple, Labor’s tactic of exposing the Coalition on faulty costings…

    While the new Parliamentary Budget Office will be costing election promises the only conclusion is that Labor plans to use Treasury to prosecute its attack.
    There are many lessons from this saga: Labor needs to deliver its surplus; the Coalition needs a better costings job than in 2010; and the Treasury, caught in the middle, needs to think hard because its reputation is on the line”

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opinion/columnists/labor-trapped-in-front-of-its-own-surplus-target/story-e6frg74x-1226511760881

  5. ……….The public should know the coalition was trying to hide its plans to cut services to Australian families in order to fill a budget black hole, she said.

    ‘I actually think the Australian people are entitled to know what the policies of every political party (are) and what they would cost.’

    Mr Swan dismissed suggestions that releasing the costings had tainted Treasury.

    ‘No, not at all,’ he told Sky News in Washington.

    Treasury provided the government with numbers from time to time on ‘many, many matters’, he said.

    He insisted the same thing happened under his predecessor Peter Costello when the coalition was in government.

    ‘It’s happening now, there is nothing wrong with that at all.’

    Shadow treasurer Joe Hockey said Labor was spending more time playing politics and no time dealing with the big policy issues that actually had an impact on the national interest.

    ‘The government has such a poor economic reputation that it has to rely on Treasury as a shield,’ he told reporters in Sydney.

    Mr Swan said if the opposition had a problem with the information provided by Treasury, it should have its policies properly costed by the Parliamentary Budget Office.

    Mr Hockey indicated the coalition would use the office to cost its policies, but said the opposition was waiting for legislation to clear parliament…………

    http://www.skynews.com.au/topstories/article.aspx?id=813771

  6. WAYNE Swan has admitted his office commissioned costings of Coalition policies that were used by Labor to score political points.

    The government has insisted for two days that Treasury routinely undertakes costings of opposition policies on its own initiative.

    But the Treasurer today conceded his office had requested the costings on the Coalition’s tax policies and it later released the information.

    “We are asking all the time for a range of matters to be looked at by the Treasury, including these ones,” he told Sky News in Washington.

    “It’s very important to have an informed debate about the cost of various alternatives.”

    He said if the opposition had a problem with the information provided by Treasury, it should have its policies properly costed by the Parliamentary Budget Office.

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/wayne-swan-admits-to-coalition-costings/story-fn59niix-1226512004064

  7. Last December nations agreed in South Africa to work on a binding agreement that would cover all countries. That work is expected to continue until 2015.

    Mr de Boer, who is now special global advisor on climate change for KPMG, said the best prospect may be for nations to settle on targets that they write into their national laws, rather than a binding international deal.

    The latter would be “almost impossible to get through the US Senate”, he said.

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/wayne-swan-admits-to-coalition-costings/story-fn59niix-1226512004064

  8. I don’t know what the point of Treeman’s cut and paste is, but all it tells me is that the Labor Party and Swan don’t have the monopoly on stupidity when it comes to the mindless pursuit of a surplus.

    The country needs a surplus like a hole in the head. Not just now, but anytime (so long as we run a CAD)

    The tragedy in all this is that the Labor Party has been suckered into a dare by Conservative interests. They have not had the guts to ignore the taunts of the Coalition and act in the best interests of the people.

    In the strange world of neo-liberal economics a surplus is the very height of “fiscal prudence”. In the real world it is utter stupidity. As Professor Kelton explains in the interview I linked to above, the counter-balancing item to a government surplus is a private sector deficit. It is Accounting 101.

    It is no secret that the much vaunted surpluses of Costello were mirrored by increasing private debt and would’ve triggered a recession of their own without any help from the GFC. But the ignorati applauded from the sidelines and said well done.

    Sadly, there’s a shortage of one-eyed kings in the realm these days and the blind seem to be leading the blind.

  9. MJ, not that sure that the PM is that rapped in the surplus.

    What it has allowed Labor to do, is attack much of that middle to upper income earners’ welfare that Howard and Costello put in place.

    From what Labor is saying at this time, I suspect they will only go along with the charade of the necessity of a surplus, as long as it does not harm the economy in the long run.

  10. What is it that Mr. Hockey is complaining about.

    He is complaining that a reliable body has done a costing of their policies.

    Now, I must say, that is a shocking thing to happen.

    Cannot let the public know what the figures are.

  11. Yes, Migs, even if some channels in the USA are trying to make it look close. Amazing, Romney won the seat of Utah. Utah, the home of the Mormons.

  12. Woohoo! Obama wins, comfortably. US media making apologies for Romney. Question over whether he represented the wealthy.

    The world has dodged a bullet.

  13. silkworm, I believe that might have been a bomb of great propositions. All the Tea Party’s fault.

  14. Tea Party loses it for Rmoney. This has implications for us here. Let’s hope Abbott gets a whack in the side of the head from this. Time for Turnbull to step up to the plate.

  15. C.U. @ 1.49
    Yes, amazing isn’t it? This is the Liberal Party, you know, those folks who can keep our economy running faultlessly without having to get out of bed in the mornings. You’d think they’d be glad that Treasury gave them all that free exposure. No pleasing some people.
    And there’s no pleasing the Republicans in America tonight.

  16. This will be interesting & as always the Right have the capacity to make it downright scary. Will they work with a reelected Obama or will they do an Abbott & figure they just weren’t mean enough & redouble their effots?

  17. “effots”
    Not a typo, my entry in this years Introducing Phonetic Spelling Contest.
    I’m sure the trusting souls here will believe me.

  18. Channel 10 reporting this as a razor’s edge win for Obama. WTF? The votes have gone almost 60-40 to Obama. It’s a decisive win.

    Pundits predicting a cultural shift, with marriage equality for gays on the agenda. Has implications for that debate here.

  19. Downer gets something right in his lifetime, one of the reasons Romney lost so bad.

    But what Downer probably doesn’t realise is that similar reasoning applies to Abbott as it’s the same mind(less) set who support him and it’s the same mind(less) set who are unpalatable to the majority of Australians.

  20. It was illuminating listening to the ex Liberals on ABC 24, (Downer and Chiroski) also saying they hope this is the last of the Tea Party., that it has done the Republicans damage.

    It is a shame that someone did not ask them what they think of the likes of Cory Berandrdi and others here, that have the dull support of Mr. Abbott.

    It was in spite of all the hype, a handsome win.

  21. What it has allowed Labor to do, is attack much of that middle to upper income earners’ welfare that Howard and Costello put in place.

    Very good point.

  22. Abbott out praising Turnbull once again. One can smell the desperation. This is one, he cannot win.

    ….news Opposition Leader Tony Abbott this week said the fact that the Australian population overwhelmingly believed long-time rival Malcolm Turnbull would be the best choice for leader of the Liberal Party indicated that Turnbull was doing “a really good job” as Shadow Communications Minister, including his ongoing attacks on Labor’s National Broadband Network project.

    Polling released by Galaxy Research this week showed that 60 percent of those polled believed Turnbull would be the best choice for leader of the Federal Liberal Party, with only 29 percent believing Abbott would be the best choice and 11 percent uncommitted. However, support for Turnbull was much higher amongst Labor supporters, with 75 percent believing him to be the best choice. Amongst Coalition supporters the pair were neck and neck, with 51 percent preferring Turnbull and 45 percent preferring Abbott. The survey canvassed about 1,000 voters and is intended as a representative sample of the Australian population.

    Turnbull was previously the Leader of the Opposition from September 2008 through December 2009, before he narrowly lost the leadership to Abbott. Since September 2010 he has served as Shadow Communications Minister, attempting to hold Communications Minister Stephen Conroy and flagship Labor initiatives such as the NBN to account.

    This week Abbott was asked to respond to the polling in a doorstop interview in Canberra (the full transcription is available online). “I think that Malcolm is doing a really good job as the Shadow Minister for Communications,” Abbott said, “and the fact that more and more people are realising that the National Broadband Network is the wrong way to go about giving Australians faster and more affordable broadband is in large measure a testimony to his effectiveness in prosecuting that case.”

    Since his appointment to lead the………………………

    http://delimiter.com.au/2012/11/07/really-good-job-abbott-praises-turnbulls-nbn-work/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Delimiter+%28Delimiter%29

    Is Turbull being groomed to take over. Maybe Abbott knows they cannot win this one and is sacrificing Turnbull.

  23. HOWEVER, THE TRUTH MIGHT BE A LITTLE DIFFERENT.

    …………..However, polling over that time has consistently shown that the Australian population continues to support the project. The latest research was conducted by Essential Media in September. It found that 43 percent of Australians felt the Labor Federal Government had made a good decision in pursuing the NBN project, with 28 percent believing it had been a bad decision. 22 percent said the decision was neither bad not good, while seven percent didn’t know. And a number of other polls conducted by Essential over the past year have found similar results.

    A similar study conducted in October by the Swinburne University of Technology asked those surveyed to respond to the following question: ‘Do you think the development of the National Broadband Network is a good idea?’ According to the report, 35 percent strongly agreed with the proposition, and 32 percent agreed. Some 13 percent sat in the middle with an answer of ‘neither’, while 13 percent disagreed, and 7 percent strongly disagreed. An independent report commissioned by the Federal Government and delivered in May found that rural and regional Australian communities were strongly committed to the NBN project, with a focus on maximising the potential of the infrastructure when it arrives in their area.

    Turnbull’s vision for the future of the NBN, should the Coalition win the next Federal Election, would see the Coalition ask the Productivity Commission to investigate the best way in which next-generation broadband should be rolled out to Australians. It is then likely that the Coalition would modify the NBN rollout to focus on fibre to the node instead of fibre to the home technology, as well as stopping the closure of the HFC cable networks operated by Telstra and Optus, and using satellite and wireless technologies to serve rural areas.

    However, much of the policy detail has not yet been disclosed, and it remains unclear whether Turnbull’s vision is fully supported by the Shadow Cabinet, with several senior Coalition politicians expressing views of broadband policy that may diverge from Turnbull’s vision – such as Abbott’s statement last week that Australia’s broadband situation was best addressed by the competitive market. In addition, The Australian newspaper has reported that there is “widespread” concern within Liberal Party ranks about how effectively Turnbull has made the case against the NBN, with some reportedly believing that Turnbull’s policy platform was too close to Labor’s own vision.

    opinion/analysis
    Does Tony Abbott really believe that Malcolm Turnbull is doing a “really good job” in the Communications portfolio? I’m not sure, to be honest. However, I suspect that Abbott doesn’t follow events in the portfolio closely enough to really be able to judge whether Turnbull is having an impact on the National Broadband Network debate and the public’s perception of the NBN or not. Abbott usually appears to completely ignore the portfolio, and at times his understanding of Coalition broadband policy appears to be quite out of date.

    I interpret his statement this week about Turnbull’s performance as being a basic attempt to divert attention from the fact that the Australian population has long preferred Turnbull as the leader of the Liberal Party over Abbott. I can’t tell you how many people, when they find out I report on Turnbull a fair bit because of his position, immediately tell me that no matter how they usually vote, they would vote for the Coalition in the next Federal Election if Turnbull was its leader again. That fact hasn’t gone away, and both Abbott and Turnbull are painfully aware of it. The fact of the matter is that, especially against Labor led by Julia Gillard, a Turnbull-led Coalition would win the next Federal Election pretty handily. I’ve long believed it is only a matter of time before Abbott stumbles one too many times and the Liberal Party is forced to turn back to Turnbull to keep its election hopes alive.

    http://delimiter.com.au/2012/11/07/really-good-job-abbott-praises-turnbulls-nbn-work/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Delimiter+%28Delimiter%29

  24. Silkworm, ” The world has dodged a bullet”….. indeed it has, if Mitt got in I was going to start stocking up on supplies such as sugar and powerderd milk etc… all the things that are rationed in war time….. phew, thank f* he and his Tea-Party mentalities lost….. the worlds just that little bit more peaceful now.
    Now that the ‘states’ has got it right, its time for Australia to get it right also.. and again re-elect Julia and her world leading government.
    P.S. Only one troll comment today….. bwwahhaahhaaa. Tea party being blamed for Mitts loss, Teaman must be sulking…… bwwaahhaaa…. going the same way as One Nation.. bwaaahhaahaa.

  25. LOVO,

    We may have more problems with an Obama win though – many Romney disciples were swearing they were going to move to Australia if Obama won, so we’d better be on the lookout for boats coming across the Pacific – alert the border patrols :lol:

  26. I thought that our PM had bad relations with Indonesia. Why has their leader invite the PM to co-chair a forum, if that is so.

  27. Our visitors seem to have disappeared. Must be getting updated on how to deal with the USA elections. Gee, he should have gone. Tea Party on the nose too, but too many of them elected, so that will ensure the Republicans not advancing, but going backwards.

    Maybe they are in shock. After all the polls for months had written Obama off.

  28. el gordo says he won’t be in today because he is out trying to cheer up his friend who had a very bad day

  29. Channel 10 reporting this as a razor’s edge win for Obama. WTF? The votes have gone almost 60-40 to Obama. It’s a decisive win.

    I bet there’s many a politician who’d be delighted with a razor like that, Silkworm.

    …we’ll sent them all the Bathurst…

    Sod that! Send the buggers to Whyalla! Make ‘em rebuild the vanished city of Whyalla, then they can start on Liealot’s next vanished town

  30. Obama won because the Republican Party was taken over by right wing extremists, Christian extremists and greed extremists. In addition republican candidates were forced to sign stating they would never increase taxes. The mainstream voter does not like extremists of either side of politics nor do they like demands placed on candidates by those extremists, which they know is manipulation.. I hope the republican party will now stop the partisan extremism and negotiate in good faith instead of total opposition.

    There is a serious message for the Liberal party here.

  31. jane every news service I heard or saw this morning called it a wafer thin, slim or razor’s edge victory for Obama. He just scraped through.

    I have no doubt if Romney had won by the barest of margins then it would have been an emphatic victory and Obama would have been smashed.

    It’s the same thing they do with polls here where any lead, no matter how slim, for the Liberals or Abbott is trumped up as decisive and significant whilst any lead the other way, no matter how significant, is played down and marginal.

  32. Reality bites

    This from Quiggin is enlightening, none the more so for it’s parallels to the Australian situation.

    The most striking political development of the last decade or so has been the abandonment, by the political right, of any concern with reality. Mitt Romney ran the most deceitful and dishonest campaign in US political history, vowing not to be deterred by fact-checkers. His partisans, in the US and Australia have made denial of reality an artform. This approach has had some remarkable successes, notably in delaying action against climate change. But there is always the risk that deception will turn into self-deception and the US Presidential election illustrated that, with the emergence of “poll trutherism”, the belief that the polls pointing to Obama’s re-election were skewed in order to encourage Democratic turnout.

    Now that poll-based predictions have turned out to be as close to accurate as statistical theory would predict, how will the right react? I can think of three possibilities.

  33. “Sick of hearing about debt.”

    Sorry CU but did you listen to John Hewson on the ABC 24 coverage.

    Hewson was rattling off the debt numbers for the US, but paused to express his puzzlement over the market’s “flight to quality”, US Treasuries.

    His underlying inference seemed to be that was irrational.

    What Hewson clearly doesn’t understand is that the traders, the dreaded bond vigilantes, know as a matter of logic that the US Debt is not an issue and the US government can always meet its obligations.

    Both Bernanke and Greenspan have pointed this out on numerous occasions but the message falls on deaf ears.

    Bond traders know this because that’s how they make their living. They don’t mess their heads with ideology.

  34. Abbott once again out politicking in Melbourne ABC24

    Nothing new. Going up and up. PM has a smile on her face when it does. Has been in Victoria dozens and dozens of times. Indeed he
    has, repeating the same message.

  35. It is said in the States, polls have trouble linking into the Latin vote. Maybe also the young. These are the ones that turned out for Obama.

  36. The look and pose of Tony is classic.

    “Promised and promised and promised”. We are back to the repeating of slogans.

    Nothing about the paper on power prices. All that we have is the so called carbon tax. Once again repeating what he has said over and over and over.

    The repeating of three word slogans is well and truly back. Suspect that this is the only way Abbott can communicate.

    If I become PM, I am not taking anything for granted, he will be able to work with Obama and anyone else.

    Can’t trust manage the economy. Protect borders and tell the truth.

    New slogan. The forgotten families of Australia. That one seems to be a blast from the past. Where Abbott appears to live.

    Commnents once again made on a paper that has not been released.

  37. That comment of John Quiggin’s has me puzzled ME:

    ” But there is always the risk that deception will turn into self-deception and the US Presidential election illustrated that, with the emergence of “poll trutherism”, the belief that the polls pointing to Obama’s re-election were skewed in order to encourage Democratic turnout.”

    Ignoring deliberate interference with the data, I can only see Republican sympathisers ticking the box for Obama on a poll in the hope the result might encourage a bigger turnout of Republicans presumably not voting for Obama.

    Am I missing something here ?

  38. MJ, I really believe that the Opposition leader and his followers believe the spin. That is worrying, as spin is all they ever put out.

    I have no idea what Mr. Abbott stands for. I sometimes think he does not know himself, or even believes that is important. The only game in town for Mr. Abbott is winning.

    We have seen Mr. Romney is badly beaten, because he has the same philosophy, I will tell you after I win.

    All we get from the opposition is pure spin. The spin they seem to believe themselves.

    How can one turn around what is said by all, well all that count, as the best economy in the world at this time.

    …OPPOSITION leader Tony Abbott has promised to ease cost of living pressures for Australian households by getting the federal budget under control if the coalition wins power at the next election.
    If the budget is out of control, Mr Abbott said on Thursday, it makes life “worse for you”.

    “My plan is to take the pressure off the forgotten families of Australia, and we do that by getting the commonwealth budget under better control,” he told reporters in Melbourne.
    He said the carbon tax, while not the only problem, was the one thing the government could scrap to reduce living costs, particularly electricity bills.
    “Every Australian power bill is going up and up and up, and the simple truth is, that every time your power bill goes up, the prime minister has a smile on her face because that is just the carbon tax doing its job,” he said.
    Mr Abbott said Labor had failed to manage the economy properly.
    “You can’t trust this government to manage the economy; you can’t trust this government to control our borders; you can’t trust this government to tell the truth.”

    Read more: http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/national/abbott-promises-to-rein-in-budget/story-e6frfku9-1226512853354#ixzz2BaLwSjgS

  39. Unemployment6 figures steady. That must upset Mr. Abbott. Steady at 5.4% More jobs created than expected.

    Does not surprise me. I have noticed my local shopping centre has become more crowded. They also seem to be buying. Same for a shopping centre at Narrellan.

    My daughter does not claim benefits as she goes. Just received more back in her tax returns. Suspect, some of the money is what was paid out as compensation for the so called carbon tax. Maybe that is occurring across the community. Many have more money than they expected.

  40. “Costello were mirrored by increasing private debt and would’ve triggered a recession of their own without any help from the GFC. But the ignorati applauded from the sidelines and said well don”

    Could that have had something to do with the user pay ideology of those too.

    It one takes away benefits, and transfer the cost to low income earners. They must have less money to spend.

    To survive, the only answer may be extra debt.

    What occurred in MHO, is that they transferred the debt from the government to lower income earners.

    Globally there has been a massive transfer of profits from workers to the boss.

    Now this is only an opinion, but one that appears to be backed by the data available.

    If one cuts taxes over the decades, how can governments provide essential services and infrastructures.

    What is clear, it has not worked in the USA, the land of the free.

  41. “My plan is to take the pressure off the forgotten families of Australia, and we do that by getting the commonwealth budget under better control,” he told reporters in Melbourne.

    If heard Hockey say similar inane things CU. And Julie Bishop.

    Straight away it tells me he’s yet to open his Year12 macroeconomics text book.

    They like to talk about “crowding out”, like as if the Government, when it runs a deficit, sort of gobbles up all the money that the private sector needs, thus driving up interest rates.

    The reality is that when the government spends, bank reserves rise, putting downward pressure on the cash rate. The RBA has to intervene by selling bonds to soak up the excess or risk losing control of the target rate.

    It’s the exact opposite of what the front bench of the coalition seems to believe.

    The problem is the media just reports this nonsense without analysis and the people believe it because they don’t know any better.

    We the people have got to educate ourselves in these matters, or continue to suffer having the wool pulled over our eyes. It’s boring, but it’s important.

  42. What makes that last statement so risible is that Rove, a right-wing commentator, was having the debate on Fox News, the notoriously right-leaning news network.

    When even Fox News is agitating to return Obama, the liberal media elite must really be in control.

    This kind of thinking is stain on conservative politics, and one that offers lessons even for Australia.

    Political rhetoric from our own conservative quarters has been dominated by two themes that echo Rove’s paranoia – firstly that the Gillard government tricked its way into power through a calculated lie about the carbon tax; and secondly, that Labor’s gross incompetence has been masked by China’s demand for our mineral resources.

    Both of these themes rely on the same implication – if voters only knew the truth, they’d sweep Gillard away for good. If only that liberal elite controlling our media would tell the truth!

    If the Coalition cannot rid itself of these paranoid tendencies, there’s every chance Abbott will ‘do a Romney’. Because as long as those themes infect the thinking of National and Liberal Party MPs, the next election looks set to be fought on the flawed notion that ‘the economy might be outperforming all other OECD nations, but it’s actually a disaster’.

    The danger to the Coalition is not that it pumps out such rhetoric, but that far too many on the conservative side actually believe it.

    http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/Barack-Obama-US-president-election-Republican-Demo-pd20121108-ZTSU8?opendocument&src=idp&utm_source=exact&utm_medium=email&utm_content=130256&utm_campaign=kgb&modapt=commentary

  43. There are opportunities to make the Australian economy more productive, equitable and robust, but given Labor’s current set of numbers, they are relatively small – inflation is low, unemployment is low, private sector investment is still relatively good, growth is not too far off trend and so on. Oh, and we’re the richest people on earth.

    But that is not stopping the Coalition arguing that there’s room to make things radically better.

    Shadow treasurer Joe Hockey told a Sydney Institute audience yesterday that if Obama lost, it would be due to his over-promising and under-delivering. The Sydney Morning Herald quotes him as saying “you cannot over-promise in politics anywhere, it leaves an air of disappointment”.

    Quite right. But day after day the Coalition has been telling voters the sky is falling due to the carbon tax and mining tax, two policies that one very well informed parliamentary Liberal source last week told me had “no material impact on the economy”.

    So to turn Hockey’s logic on its head, if the Gillard government survives the next election it will be because they delivered something quite good, while the Coalition promised something extravagantly better.

    http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/Barack-Obama-US-president-election-Republican-Demo-pd20121108-ZTSU8?opendocument&src=idp&utm_source=exact&utm_medium=email&utm_content=130256&utm_campaign=kgb&modapt=commentary

  44. CU,I was reading the comments at the Business Spectator (your link) and found this to be typical of the readership there:

    “Labour is great until they run out of spending everyone else’s money !” Until they can address Economics 101, they will always be tossed out after they have put the country into unsustainable debt positions.”

    The author no doubt thinks he’s got a real handle on the economics but from where I sit, they don’t come any dumber.

    That type love to talk, with appropriate gravitas, about “unsustainable debt positions” without having the foggiest clue about the underlying realities.

    I asked our conservative friend Neil recently to explain “unsustainable” but he was stumped.

    It’s said that a little knowledge is dangerous, but not when the alternative is total ignorance.

  45. I think it is more than polls being skewed. I believe that polls are and can take on a life of their own.

    Many who have no interest in politics, are likely to go with what they think is the majority.

    I took part in what I suspect was a local right-wing poll a couple of weeks ago. They said they were seeking the views among local people how they felt about the cost of living.

    Every question was loaded. I said at the end, I believe I have not given the answers you were after. I did get an angry response, proving to me, I had guessed right.

    It was apparent as the questions went on the interview was not impressed with my answers. It was also hard to disagree with the questions asked.

    Yes, I believe that some are using polls to mould public opinion.

    I believe polls should cease once an election is called.

  46. Ferguson announcement invaded by what it looks like those idiots from the UNI the other day.

    One thing for sure, they are not k

    Also they are not funny.

  47. “It was a “belief” by the Republicans that the polls were skewed, Quiggin is referring to that I believe.”

    I guess that’s the only interpretation that makes sense ME.

    Given the situation of the bulk of potential Democratic voters (the benighted minorities) it’s more likely to deliver a lower turnout of Democratic voters as some would then say “they won’t need my vote then” but when did Republicans ever make sense.

  48. If anybody needs some newspaper for the bottom of the cat litter tray I suggest they buy today’s Daily Telegraph and have page 13 exposed as close as possible to the cat’s bum. Even a cat would enjoy crapping on Bolt’s shit-splattered articles.

  49. ………….The costings blow-up is a sign that the political debate is moving beyond the carbon tax. ALP federal secretary George Wright thinks we have entered the “post-carbon” phase of contemporary politics. Crikey’s Bernard Keane thinks it might be closer to the “death of conviction politics”. However you characterise it, clearly there will be a renewed focus on economic policy. This poses risks for the Coalition, because it has a woeful record on costing its own policies since losing government.

    One of the problems for the Opposition is that it has never been particularly good at formulating coherent alternative policies. Under Abbott, the Opposition has preferred simple slogans and cheap rhetoric to detailed costings and substantive research. When the last election was fought in 2010, the Coalition gave us a platform that was about “stopping the boats” and “ending the waste”, but which didn’t bother to explain how policies would be paid for.

    On fiscal policy, for instance, the Coalition has consistently argued that it would spend less and tax less than Labor. But it has never managed to put a credible set of figures before the public — presenting its election costings only 48 hours before the vote back in 2010, costings which turned out to be billions of dollars in error. It hasn’t rushed to set matters straight since then.

    Carbon policy is another example where the Coalition has struggled to put forward a credible alternative policy. The Coalition’s so-called “direct action” policy on carbon is based on dubious soil science and laughably optimistic costings. According to the Australia Institute, it may end up costing taxpayers $11 billion a year in payments to polluters, and probably won’t work to reduce emissions either.

    The Coalition’s paid parental leave scheme is one policy where we have a bit more detail. In many respects it’s a more generous and comprehensive scheme than the government’s — so generous, in fact, that new mothers earning up to $150,000 will get six months of their salary paid for by taxpayers.

    Just how the Coalition manages to square its beliefs in “ending the waste” with a commitment to paying well-off mums an astonishing $75,000 in government welfare is one of the great mysteries of the current Parliament. If Liberal politicians were upset about the cash splash of stimulus payments in 2009, what must they think about a government prepared to give highly-paid mothers more than $5,700 a fortnight, for six months?

    I could go on. On the National Broadband Network, for instance, Malcolm Turnbull has been claiming that the Coalition has a fully costed policy ready to be released. Despite this claim, he has not actually released any policy costings. Indeed, as Delimiter’s Renai LeMai has documented, there seems to be a degree of flip-flopping about whether the Coalition will complete a cut-down version of the NBN, as Turnbull has suggested at various times, or “pause” it, as Tony Abbott said recently. The NBN was a crucial factor in the loss of the 2010 election, appearing to sway independents Tony Windsor and Rob Oakeshott towards Labor, and also costing the Coalition votes.

    The policy confusion is a symptom of a media-driven strategy that puts Abbott front and centre, in preference to allowing front-benchers to prosecute their policy agendas against their Labor counterparts. The Coalition has consistently muzzled its shadow ministers outside a few key portfolios like Scott Morrison in immigration, forcing them to stay on message on the talking points of the day. That’s done Labor some unexpected favours, given that the government has many struggling ministers………….

    http://newmatilda.com/2012/11/07/no-longer-one-horse-race

  50. This poses risks for the Coalition, because it has a woeful record on costing its own policies since losing government.

    Really?? Who says?? If he is talking about the so-called black hole in the 2010 costings Eltham is wrong. The bottom line is that the Coalition polices were better and Treasury says they would help the budget but not as much as the Coalition said but it was still better than Labors effort.

    MORE LIES FROM BEN ELTHAM

    But it has never managed to put a credible set of figures before the public — presenting its election costings only 48 hours before the vote back in 2010,”

    Labor was no better in 2007 but I guess that does not bother Ben Eltham and if Swan did not leak costings for policies they would have been submitted on time

    MORE DECEIT FROM BEN ELTHAM

  51. He would have to be wrong. It does not fit in with your beliefs. It is a shame that treasury seems to agree with the proposition.

    Then we all know that the last people one takes direction from, is experts.

    We cannot allow a few facts ts to get in the way of a good story.

    Abbott is all spin, and nothing else than spin.

    Neil, you might like to be talked to in three word slogans, repeated over and over, as one would speak to three year olds.

    Most others want information and facts before they accept what any politicians have to say.

  52. Hey Copy and Paste, on the turps judging by that last comment. Quick, to the site dashboard to clean it up. By the way…altering your posts is bad form as everyone else here does not have that facility so you are cheating. Why don’t you just post a follow up comment to correct your post like everyone else here? You saturate this place so one extra comment would not be noticed.

  53. He would have to be wrong. It does not fit in with your beliefs.”

    No, like all ALP supporters Eltham is deceitful. I guess he is talking about this

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2010-09-01/treasury-finds-black-hole-in-coalition-costings/2245360

    Before the election the Coalition said its promises would add about $11.5 billion to the budget bottom line over the next four years.

    But Treasury analysis given to Tony Windsor and his fellow independents Rob Oakeshott and Bob Katter shows the Coalition’s promises would only add between $860 million and $4.5 billion to the bottom line.

    The bottom line is that the improvement in the budget was better with Coalition policies, just not as good as they claimed if we can believe Treasury.

    The question must be asked is why Oakshot and Windsor sided with the ALP in 2010 when Treasury says the Coalition policies were better??

  54. Scaper, I wouldn’t complain about people editing posts. I edited one two days ago to remove your real name from it.

    And attacking Cu is uncalled for, I might add.

  55. The question must be asked is why Oakshot and Windsor sided with the ALP in 2010 when Treasury says the Coalition policies were better??

    Neil, I know I am getting old, but I fail to recall that the treasury said Abbott’s figures were better. Maybe you can give us a link. It is not that I diebelieve you, I just do not remember thart report.

  56. It’s not an attack, just calling it out. Shit, we all make spelling errors but I see no reason why all of us have to wear it but Copy and Paste does not. I would not call what CU does as protecting someone’s identity or this site from legal action.

  57. CU

    I gave you the link

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2010-09-01/treasury-finds-black-hole-in-coalition-costings/2245360

    But Treasury analysis given to Tony Windsor and his fellow independents Rob Oakeshott and Bob Katter shows the Coalition’s promises would only add between $860 million and $4.5 billion to the bottom line…………………………….Labor said its promises would improve the Budget bottom line by about $44 million over four years, but Treasury says it is actually more than that – about $106 million.”

    Treasury said Coalition policies would improve the budget bottom line by 0.86B-$4.5B whereas Labor policies only improved it by $0.106B.

    The problem was the Coalition said it would improve the budget bottom line by $11B. When Treasury disagreed with this and said it would be a smaller number the media screamed ” $11B black hole”

  58. scaper, I do not change anyone’s post. Never, even though at times, I have been greatly tempted to. I came close to removing one of yours while Migs was away.

    I do not know what I have done to upset you,

    I find it hard to pick up mistakes in the comment box. I do not change the post. All I do is remove the errors and put the quotes or images in.

    Print seems to be getting smaller.

    Yes, I like to cut and paste, to keep the debate going. You can accept or reject to your hearts intent. So not CARE EITHER WAY. GROW UP.

  59. scaper, I am confused. I did not clean up any cut and paste. The one that I went back to was full of errors. Typing and spelling. It is nice to know you are so alert. Tell me waht I chaged in context. Nothing I believe.

  60. Migs, once again, visitors thinking they have the right to tell you how to run the site.

    If one does not like the way things are done, one does not have to visit.

  61. Legaql action.

    Must be getting under someone’s skin.

    Some of your comments, scaper defintely come close in that regard, especially when you desrcibe the PM.

    If you do not like what I put up, just feel free to scroll past.

    scaper what have I said, that has put me or the site in danger of legal action.

    Please let us in on the secret.

    PS. I am in bigger trouble, I have lost my spell checker.

  62. Scaper, ultimately a Blogmaster is legally liable for slanderous comments appearing on his/her site. When such comments appear to overstep the boundary between vigorous debate and descend into slander then clearly it is a Blogmaster/Admin’s responsibility to edit these, either in part or in their entirety.

  63. scaper, notice, I am not going to stop. It is a tool I use to get over a disability. Sorry.

    I am not going back to writing the comments in word, and copying. That is a tedious process.

  64. Min, what have I written that would attract legal action. It appears that scaper is not going to tell us.

  65. My disability is not my spelling. It is typing errors that I do not pick up. No, I use chrome, and have a good spell checker, which seems to be playing up today. Most errors are picked up when it is working.

    Still, I cannot see what you are complaining about. What did I say or do that would attract legal action.

  66. CU, I have seen nothing here written by you that would attract legal action. It was a comment by me that had to be deleted during the last blog war.

    I will not speak of the content as best to leave that 30 comment a day site to themselves.

  67. “CU, as an exponent of marshall arts I leave it to your judgement. Lol.”

    What in the hell has martial arts got to do with it. Not too sure what you mean by marshall.

    Do I need to begin shaking in my boots. That is if I was wearing any.

    Spell checker back in action.

    scaper, what is really eating you. Nothing you have written today, makes much sense.

    Please what have I written that would attract legal action. I do need to know, so I do not make the same mistake again.

  68. scaper, you said I was in danger of attracting legal action.

    That comment that you made while Migs was away, came close to doing so, but I left it there. Mainly because I do not like interfering in the posts of others.

    The post did offend me though. This time I accidentally pushed the post button before I finished.

  69. Best leave it be, CU. There are times scaper makes sense and at other times, well, he’s a little over the top. I’ve followed his comments since Mat Price’s blogs. He IS a bit of an enigma.

  70. rabbit – the “marshall arts” is an old joke from way way back in the annuls of blog history ;)

    The other one you’ll see from time to time is “little lone” instead of let alone…

  71. It’s all good,Cu. Scaper said something some time ago about a person from another blog and I deleted the comment (as funny as it was).

    I addressed it with Scaper personally and he had no problems with my actions.

    It is nothing you have said or done.

  72. Bacchus, I see Ad Astra has a new term to describe people who are called trolls on his site: irritants.

    I can’t see them taking offence to that.

  73. Packing up for a move is so much fun. You get to throw out all the stuff that you thought you’d use. And get to keep the stuff you’ll probably never use.

  74. Rabbit, how often have you kept something for years that you’ve never needed, only to need it a few days after finally dumping it?

  75. You’re right, Migs. Only today I was was looking for a few screws I knew I had when I was younger. Couldn’t find them anywhere. Guess I must have thrown them away! :(

  76. “Only today I was was looking for a few screws I knew I had when I was younger”

    How would a rabbit remember ?

  77. Rabbit,…. “Only today I was was looking for a few screws I knew I had when I was younger. Couldn’t find them anywhere. “……… did you try the local Nursing home :???: :lol:
    (P.S. is there a tounge in cheek smiley ??? if not there should be !! )

  78. Malcolm Turnbull just held a press conference on News 24. Some advice for Malcolms staff. Do not stand behind your boss in camera. That way the camera will not catch the dorothy dixer thrown in when questions by msm are tough. also the camera will not catch you saying thankyou as a prompt to your boss that he is off script and should finish interview.

  79. “I have spent a large part of my working life representing working people. I have never done what Mr Abbott has done – stood in front of people and wilfully deceived them.
    It is cynical and disrespectful of people’

    We should expect no less from the minister for rioting, intimidation storming of Parliament House as he takes out hypoctrite of the year for the second time running.

  80. Finally Senator Conroy dumps the Internet Filter. Should never have been proposed and was only done so to appease religious nutters. Conroy should have abandoned the ridiculous idea a few years ago instead of clinging to it like a barnacle to a whale.

  81. no comment. I believe one is capable of making up their own minds.

    Myth of the Fiscal Cliff

    This post is about the myth of the fiscal cliff also known as insolvency/debt ceiling debacle. An attempt to stop it before fiscal cliff lunacy migrates to Australia.

    Statement: We can’t keep adding debt to the national credit card.

    Response: We can if we want to. There’s no limit on the credit card except the one imposed arbitrarily by parliament.

    Statement: If we continue to issue more debt, then our main creditors may refuse to buy it, an event that would lead us to insolvency and severe austerity.

    Response: They’ll most probably buy it for the foreseeable future; but if they don’t we won’t be forced into solvency because we can always create the money we need to meet our obligations.

    Statement: Our grandchildren must have the heavy burden of repaying our national debt.

    Response: We’re obligated to pay all Australian debts as they come due. Since we have an unlimited credit card to incur new debt at interest rates of our choosing, or, alternatively can create all the money we need to pay off debt subject to the limit, without incurring any more debt, our national debt cannot be a burden for our grandchildren unless they wish to make it make it so by stupidly taxing more than they spend. So, let’s educate them well in Modern Monetary economics, so that they never make that mistake.

    Statement: There is a deficit/debt reduction problem for the Federal Government that is not self-imposed.

    Response: There is no such problem. Since the Aussie government has no limits other than self-imposed ones on spending or borrowing, the level of the national debt, or the debt-to-GDP ratio don’t affect the Government’s capacity to spend Appropriations at all.

    Statement: The Government is running out of money.

    Response: The Government cannot involuntarily run out of money.

    Statement: The Federal Government is like a household and that since households sacrifice to live within their means, Government ought to do that too.

    Response: No, the Federal Government is not like a household! Households can’t make their own currency and require that people use that currency to pay taxes.

    Statement: The Government can only raise money by taxing or borrowing.

    Response: The Government can create money; so it can never involuntarily run out.

    Statement: We face a crushing burden of Federal debt. The debt will grow to catastrophic levels in the years ahead.

    Response: This is nonsense. Federal Spending is costless to the government.

    Statement: Australia could be in danger of becoming the next Greece or Ireland.

    Response: Greece and Ireland are users of the Euro, not issuers of it. So, their supply is always limited and that’s why they can run out of Euros. Australia is the issuer of Dollars; so it’s supply of dollars is limited only by its desire to create them, and that’s why it can’t become Greece, Ireland, or any other Eurozone nation.

    Statement: Fiscal Responsibility means stabilizing and then reducing the debt-to-GDP ratio and achieving a Federal Government surplus.

    Response: No! REAL Fiscal Responsibility is fiscal policy intended to achieve public purposes while also maintaining or increasing fiscal sustainability viewed as the extent to which patterns of Government spending do not undermine the capability of the Government to continue to spend to achieve its public purposes.

    Statement: Federal Government austerity will create jobs.

    Response: Show us one case where austerity is working?

    http://senexx.wordpress.com/2012/11/09/myth-of-the-fiscal-cliff/#comments

  82. Another promise kept.

    PRESCHOOLS and kindergartens will get a $1.1 billion funding shot as the federal government pushes for more subsidised places for children from poorer families.
    Schools Minister Peter Garrett will today announce the funds he will kick into a new three-year early childhood agreement with the states from next July, equalling $171 million more per year than under the old five-year deal.
    The package will propel a national plan to create an early childhood place of at least 15 hours a week for every child, with research showing sending four-year-olds to school makes smarter students.
    NSW will receive $335 million over three years for new classrooms

    Read more: http://www.news.com.au/business/your-business/billion-boost-for-tots-in-preschool/story-fn9evb64-1226513299341#ixzz2BhGAIAc7

  83. Hope to drown out trolls. Well that is my excuse. The problem is that there is much more going on the side of Labor, than worrying about Abbott’s daily stunt. Did not do too good this morning on Nine..

    Of course that would be the PM’s fault. We know how she picks on poor Tony. Unfairly, Abbott’s deputy saqys..

    LABOR READY FROM EARLY 2013
    Although no decision on the timing of the election is imminent, Labor strategists want to be in a position to mobilise from early next year. The vote is due before next October, but any election before early August would be a House-only election.
    Labor has recruited the chief executive of Sydney ad agency Murphy & Friends, Mark Collis, to assemble an advertising team for the election. It has also decided to base its campaign headquarters in Melbourne.

    http://afr.com/p/national/boxing_in_abbott_labor_obama_strategy_9WSmWsgKYoqa9KtBJCMQeK

    What I do believe, that the next election will not be the walk over, that Abbott found last time. I expect a highly professional effort.

  84. BACKING THE LOSING SIDE

    ………In the past 18 months, the financial services and fossil energy industries moved into outright opposition to the Obama administration and the Democratic Party, making little secret of their desire to see a Republican takeover in Washington.
    Employees of banks such as Goldman Sachs and JPMorgan Chase and Co, as well as many brokerages and derivatives dealers poured millions of dollars into political action committees that supported Romney for president and backed other Republicans in a bid to seize control of the Senate.
    The American Petroleum Institute (API), which lobbies on behalf of the oil and gas industry, created and funded Vote4Energy to campaign for oil- and gas-friendly policies in battleground states. The organisation was nominally independent, but its positions and advocacy closely mirrored the views of the Romney campaign.
    In return, Romney’s campaign promised to repeal the hated Dodd-Frank law and ease restrictions on the development of fossil energy.

    http://www.climatespectator.com.au/commentary/fossil-fuel-lobbys-election-gamble-backfires?utm_source=Climate%2BSpectator%2Bdaily&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Climate%2BSpectator%2Bdaily

    Looks like they lost their money.

  85. Maybe Mr. Rudd should have followed Mr. Howard’s action and sacked great numbers of departmental heads.

    The Coalition is coy about its preparations for government, but handling the public service is an issue.When John Howard won in 1996, he foolishly chopped a third of the departmental heads. Abbott would be unlikely to repeat that hatchet job but individual secretaries will be nervous.
    A while ago, Hockey was asked about Parkinson’s future. He declined to guarantee it, and some Liberal sources predicted Parkinson would be shifted. But now his position looks safer.
    There would be no good reason to move Parkinson: he is a very proper public servant, and a good economist with a market-oriented approach.
    Indeed, the current heads of the key departments should all be acceptable to a Coalition government. Ian Watt (Prime Minister and Cabinet) was highly respected when he worked for Nick Minchin in Finance; Peter Varghese (about to take over Foreign Affairs) has effectively served both sides; Dennis Richardson (Defence) has a top reputation across the political divide, and David Tune (Finance) is well regarded.
    As a minister, Abbott was seen to have a professional relationship with the public service. There are some in the Coalition, however, who believe the bureaucracy is too left-leaning. Hopefully Abbott would not be swayed by them.
    He might usefully read the observations of James Button, a former Age journalist who worked as a speechwriter for Kevin Rudd and was based in the Prime Minister’s department.
    In Speechless, Button writes: ”Public servants were serious about their obligation to to be apolitical. At a meeting in the PM’s office I watched Ben Rimmer, a deputy secretary, carefully mark out the limits of the department’s advice – ‘That’s for you to decide, not us’ – when the PM’s advisers began discussing the politics of an issue. Even casual conversations in the department had a way of discussing politics in a way that was more like commentary than endorsement. After work, out of uniform, you would hear political views, but not in the office.”
    Despite pressures in recent years, including senior bureaucrats now being on contracts, pushing the system towards greater politicisation, most senior public servants do try to uphold the traditional values of frank advice and political neutrality – occasionally to their ministerial masters’ discomfort.
    Michelle Grattan is political editor.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/figures-frenzy-turns-spotlight-on-canberras-bureaucracy-20121108-290nc.html#ixzz2Bhht45Sn

  86. Does this mean we are going to find out the nuts and bolts.

    ………..Opposition climate action spokesman Greg Hunt will address the conference this afternoon to outline the Coalition’s alternative ‘direct action’ climate plan.
    The Kyoto Protocol was first negotiated by countries in 1997 and required wealthy nations to limit their emission of greenhouse gases. It is due to expire at the end of this year………….

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/australia-and-new-zealand-divided-over-kyoto-2-20121109-292hu.html#ixzz2BhjSNPZq

  87. ME, it was really dropped three years ago. Kept quiet to keep the religious fanatics onside.

    Would not have worked anyway. New arrangements just might.

    It is up to parents to protect their children, whether on or off line.

  88. Karl Marx wrote: There are 3 things that are a threat to humanity, ignorance, stupidity and mediocrity. Stupidity and mediocrity are the only reason to try to put a lid on the truth. Therefore these people who try to slow down the process of the truth coming out are ignorant and mediocre. And God forbid such a thing ever happen again anywhere on earth.. My curses on you Kolyma.

    “Inter-changable with La Gillard and her Labor unionist Marxist mates”

    Well said Doc.

    The smell seems to be getting worse! http://www.2gb.com/audioplayer/5665

  89. CU, a naster of understatement…”The problem is that there is much more going on the side of Labor, than worrying about Abbott’s daily stunt”

    Too right CU and it stinks!

  90. Making less sense all the time. Do not even think el gordo can help us. Really losing it, or talking in a language that I have no knowledge of.

  91. To the Republicans who said they would move to Australia if Obama won.

    Australia has universal health care, compulsory voting, gun control, no death penalty, pro-choice, openly gay politicians and judges, evolution is taught in schools, and our leader is a female unmarried atheist.

  92. tree, maybe you can let us into what you think stinks.

    Please move past ancient history of Slater and Gordon.

    Would love something new.

    Yes, I must agree, Abbott did not try a stunt today.

    He made himself available for a proper interview on Nine, which I believe he blew on all fronts.

  93. “Yes, it is still Slater and Gordon”

    And CU is still a master of understatement…You know very well what stinks and it’s not Polonius in the stair but like Polonius ” A certain convocation of politic worms” are at work!

  94. tree, I know no such thing.

    You know it is a beat-up but handy to stir a little dirt.

    It will go the way of all the other attacks with no basis.

    Are we to take the word of Alan Jones. That must be what you believe, putting his spiel up.

  95. Ha ha ha.

    The LNP have suspended Clive Palmer’s membership because he dared to tell the truth and say they cooked the books.

    Welcome to Liberal politics where honesty must be quashed at every turn, even honesty from their own.

  96. I don’t think there is anything quite so nasty as conservatives who have fairly lost in a democratic process. Just look at their reaction here after the last election and Abbott’s continual refusal to accept the government as legitimate.

    You see democracy, you know that thing that is the stalwart of the US and what they invade other countries to protect and force onto apparently isn’t working the way the conservatives believe it should work, so lets just crush it.

    The end of liberty in America: Only course of action now is to fight back, electoral politics not working

  97. In an upmarket pub last night, an Australian pub, I heard a half drunk Australian fully rant about the stupidity of America in electing Obama and how they have doomed that country in base socialism and ruin.

    He went on for a good five minutes or more. But this from the US shows the nastiness of the conservatives with the twisted mindset like the Australian above.

    Starting early this morning, I am going to un-friend every single individual on Facebook who voted for Obama, or I even suspect may have Democrat leanings. I will do the same in person. All family and friends, even close family and friends, who I know to be Democrats are hereby dead to me. I vow never to speak to them again for the rest of my life, or have any communications with them. They are in short, the enemies of liberty. They deserve nothing less than hatred and utter contempt.

    I strongly urge all other libertarians to do the same. Are you married to someone who voted for Obama, have a girlfriend who voted ‘O’. Divorce them. Break up with them without haste. Vow not to attend family functions, Thanksgiving dinner or Christmas for example, if there will be any family members in attendance who are Democrats.

    Do you work for someone who voted for Obama? Quit your job. Co-workers who voted for Obama. Simply don’t talk to them in the workplace, unless your boss instructs you too for work-related only purposes. Have clients who voted Democrat? Call them up this morning and tell them to take their business elsewhere.

    As many on the right in the US are calling for the Republicans to go further right and away from moderation as a solution to their loss.

    Planet America gave one stat that more than any other showed where the Republicans failed, and it was with George W Bush.

    As much as Romney attempted to rewrite history (in a parallel with what Abbott does here) and somehow have the downturn in the US economy start the very moment Obama took office, wiping out eight years of Bush as though they never existed, the poll showed a significant majority of Americans believed the problems with the US economy were George W Bush’s fault, and that held even for Republican supporters.

    In another parallel here, Abbott also treats the Australian people as idiots, and this more than anything else will be his downfall.

  98. Got a link for that or just talking out of your arse, as usual??

    That’s a laugh coming from you.

    Will you admit that you are the one who talks through your arse if it’s true? Of course not.

    ABC Online is your friend.

  99. Brisbane Times has also reported it.

    Jeez for someone so into politics with the supposed inside running and the ears of the right wing political hierarchy it seems this is a significant miss.

  100. Especially as it has been threatened for over 24 hours.

    Planet America was enlightening. Democracy comes a long last in that country.

  101. Clive Palmer and Gina Rinhart announce they are joining the Labor Party.

    Sorry, this time I was talking through my arse.

    By the way Labor membership has grown considerably over the last twelve months. That is fact.

  102. ABC News just now also reporting Palmer’s suspension from the LNP. I guess they are talking through their arse as well?

  103. Highly unusual, must of been an executive meeting. Clive thought he could buy the party but it can’t be bought. This action is proof. Clive’s nose is out of joint because his rail proposal was passed over for the Alpha proposal.

    Oh, I have absolutely nothing to do with the Qld LNP…bumped into my local member not long ago at a function. I didn’t hold back.

  104. Came across his while looking for something else… interesting to scroll through ;)
    “Australian resources and energy commodities production and exports
    Over the past three years the mining sector has contributed around 7 per cent a year to Australia’s total GDP, and about 2 per cent of total employment (ABS 2012). In 2010–11, the gross value added produced from mining activities was essentially unchanged from the previous year at around $100 billion (in 2011–12 dollars).”

    http://www.bree.gov.au/documents/publications/req/REQ-Sep-2012.doc

  105. In another parallel universe, ghastly gillard treats the Australian people as idiots, and this more than anything else will be her downfall. What Clive, Tony and Malcolm get up to while she sinks is entirely beside the point. What Lu Kevin gets up to on the other hand is much more interesting, especially to the nation that gave him that name.

  106. “you always end up, after the gibberish, moving onto rubbish”

    CU would know after two years of swimming around in this little pile…can you tell me about Lu Kevin?

  107. Why does anyone bother with the irritant…… tree is suffering from an ‘white’ ant infestation…. and as one can see….. the rot has set in……… (p.s. tea party nutters f* Mitts plans :lol: ) tree to a tea is not smart enough to know how dumb hims are, ay.. :D

  108. tree, not interested in the dirt. Rather keep to the facts. That is something you have great trouble with.

    I have swam in more pools than this little one. Many more.

    If you are so great,dig your own, and set up competition to this and similar blogs.

    It is easy to set up.

    Not so easy to make a success of..

    See how many followers you can amass.

    I am sure Migs would assist by putting you on the blog roll.

    tree, you are just like Abbott and Co.

    A demolisher, not a builder.

  109. Welcome to Liberal politics where honesty must be quashed at every turn, even honesty from their own.

    How do you know when a right-winger is telling the truth?

    When he says that other right-wingers are lying.

  110. Oh dear, a touch of Friday preciousness has brought out the name callers…It’s a joke really…

    “just like Abbott and Co. A demolisher, not a builder.”

    Coming from those whose main purpose in life is to demolish Abbott is a bit rich.

  111. tree, if you let go with the name calling and dirt, you must expect it to be returned in full.

    Another weakness Tony has, like most bullies, can give it but not take it.

    Go back and read your comments. It is YOU that begins the name calling every time.

  112. We have Mr. Hunt complainihg about Mr. Combet using using offensive and insulting language about Mr. Abbott.

    Mr.Combet believes, as I do, if one dishes it out, they deserve to get it back.

    LateLine

  113. ” tree is suffering from an ‘white’ ant infestation…”

    Looks more like die-back Lovo, phytophthera cinnamoni.

  114. Finally Senator Conroy dumps the Internet Filter. Should never have been proposed and was only done so to appease religious nutters.

    Conroy is a religious nutter himself (Catholic), so by appeasing religious nutters he is also appeasing himself.

  115. We have Mr. Hunt complainihg about Mr. Combet using using offensive and insulting language about Mr. Abbott.

    Mr.Combet believes, as I do, if one dishes it out, they deserve to get it back.

    Just watched The Bucket List on TV, in which Jack Nicholson says, “Turnaround is fair play.”

  116. “phytophthera cinnamoni” ….. apart from Gazanias one of my pet hates…. the local arboretum ( of which I am Deputy Chair) has a Nth facing ‘mound’ on which we ‘used to’ grow Sturt Peas….. the f*’n thing can stay dormant in the soil for up to 20 yrs…. plant vampire comes to mind in the way it just desicates the plant…. the only way we could get rid of ‘it’ is to remove the ‘mound’…… and like our $2000per.yr. budget is gunna stretch to that :???:

  117. Sturt’s Desert Pea, Swainsona formosa is a notoriously difficult plant to grow in production and attracts every known pathogen in cultivation, even when grown in sterile mix in hanging baskets.

    Phytophthera cinnamomi like many other microorganisms attacks plant genera grown in unsuitable conditions. While attending an industry conference 20 years ago I met the man who had recently discovered the cause of long fallow disease in wheat. Peak Horticultural and Agricultural bodies trialled Mycorrhizal inoculation and today we have a far better understanding of soil microbial associations.

    Politics is a lot like soil associations. Once things get out of kilter it’s very difficult to restore the balance. Like the Gillard government, Swainsona formosa has attributes that many would prefer did not exist, hence the attempts to ban sales of the plant.

  118. Maybe the USA is coming to its senses. Maybe it will be OK for governments believe they have the right to collect taxes on behalf of their citizens from all levels of society. That the rich are not exempted.

    I see that Obama has already said that any agreement with the Republicans will have to include tax rises for the rich. Common sense tell one, that this is essential.

    ………..The end of the tax revolt
    Long after President Obama’s re-election was secure, another election day result came in, one that may be of comparable significance in the long run.

    By a 54-46 margin, Californian voters approved Proposition 30, which raises about $6 billion a year in additional income and sales taxes to prevent further cuts in education spending.

    To appreciate the historic significance of this measure, it’s necessary to go back to 1978 and the passage of Proposition 13, which slashed property taxes, and imposed high barriers to any future increase in taxes.

    Proposition 13 heralded the beginning of a global “Tax Revolt”, and the end of a century-long trend towards an increase in the share of national income allocated to public services…………

    http://johnquiggin.com/2012/11/10/the-end-of-the-tax-revolt/#comments

    That was the bill that began the so called tax revolt and led to the rich paying much less.

  119. This is what I believe the next election should be about. It will depend on how far we lag behind the Yanks.

    What does this mean for Australia?

    It has becoming increasingly obvious that Australian governments cannot meet their basic commitments to provide health, education and welfare services while remaining within current budget constraints. The problem is only going to get worse if the problems in school funding identified by the Gonski review are to be addressed and if initiatives like the National Disability Insurance Scheme and publicly funded parental leave are to proceed.

    The Global Financial Crisis signified the failure of the free-market policies for which Proposition 13 was the harbinger. It’s time to recognise, once again, that we can never be truly prosperous without high quality public services and that the only way to pay for those services is through taxation. California has learnt this lesson the hard way. Australia can surely do better.

    http://johnquiggin.com/2012/11/10/the-end-of-the-tax-revolt/#comments

  120. This is what I believe the next election should be about..

    “On one side, the non-combative Abbott. He stands accused of hating women and having punched a wall 35 years ago.

    On the other side, the pugnacious Gillard: She is accused of calling all married women prostitutes, promoting lesbianism and late-term abortions. Declaring heterosexual relationships an “anomaly”. Convincing her parents to join the Communist Party. Defrauding millions from union members. Inventing false polls to convince Caucus to support the knifing of a sitting Prime Minister. Spending billions we don’t have gaining international and domestic favours. Intimidating media companies. Insisting journalists be sacked. Constantly lying to the Australian people. Demeaning Abbott’s family. Cooking Budget books. Supporting corrupt union bosses. Inflaming a gender war that formerly didn’t exist. Promoting incompetent unionists to Cabinet. Promoting a partner in crime to a Federal Court judge. Signing deals with the unrepresentative, communist Greens so she could attain government. Having an open sexual preference for married men. Having been sacked from a corrupt law firm, no longer being able to practise as a solicitor and doggedly refusing to answer questions in Parliament about her documented, corrupt past… and in the short time she has been Prime Minister, responsible for policy disasters the like of which we have never seen”

    Love him or hate him Pickering has nailed it!

  121. Is the visitor right. The next election should be fought on personality and nothing more.

    Should be fought on unfounded allegations and other slurs.

    Maybe I am naive, when I believe if should be fought on results and where we are headed.

    It should be fought on who has the nest plans and dreams for the future.

    It should be fought on getting the tax fix right. It should be about protecting the weak and vulnerable in our society.

    This country is going well when compared with the rest of the world. Even so, there will be big hurdles arising in the near future. The globe is fragile economically.

    We have a great future, but only in the infrastructure is put in place, to allow us to take full advantage. It will not be handed to us on a silver plate. It will have to be earned..

    I care not about what the PM knew about her boyfriend nearly twenty years ago. Especially when she becomes aware of his behavior, she quickly dumped him. At the end of the day, what is in dispute, is when she realized he could have been acting corrupted.

    There is no evidence, in spite of the thousands of words written over the last few years, that she had any benefit from his actions. Some, who have much to say, are careful to point this out.

    What about Mr. Abbott’s role and lies in setting up that fund, that pursued Ms. Hanson to the inside of a jail. There are many other examples of such behavior. All that he lied about at first, and then laughed it off when evidence differed with what he was saying.

    Saying that, I am not that interested in Mr. Abbott’s past. It is out there for all to see. What I am more interested in what he doing and saying today. Not much, I am afraid. I have seen nothing from the man recently that gives me any hope that he could lead this country at this time.

    Yes, I believe that the fact that Mr. Rudd was dumped by his caucus, about the same time, Mr. Abbott maneuvers himself into the position to knife Turnbull has little to do with the next election.

    There has been plenty of time to make a judgement of the ability of both.

    Now we will all have our own priorities to make those decisions on.

    The biggest question that seems to be facing countries worldwide, is how we fund the needs of our country, and people , while allowing business and trade to flourish.

    One cannot be done at the expense of others.

    If we care about that future, we cannot afford to let ourselves to be diverted by those only interested in dirt and innuendo. Those who seek gotcha moments with little worth or value, to divert our attent6ion away from what really counts.

    I want to hear from our visitors, how great Mr. Abbott is and why.

    If they believe we lie, I want that lie spelt out.

    I want to hear what their dreams are for the future.

    Rehash of alleged scandal and innuendo, is not what is needed. That is only wasting time, and attempting to divert.

    There is a better way to get our attention. Letting us in on your secret of why we should;d all be kneeling at the feet of Mr. Abbott.

    As for the boat trade. There is really no proof to indicate that Mr. Howards solution would still be working. Experts in the field do not seem to agree. Why did Mr. Howard begin building Christmas Island, if this was the case.

    Regardless who is to blame.is now no longer important. What is important, is working towards a solution. That means all of the Houston solution has to be put in place. There is no other solution available at this time.

    The lower tax line is at last running out of steam. About bloody time. A decade or too late for most of the world.

    What they are really saying is lower taxes to be replaced by user pay.

    The rich get let off, the poor pay. Common sense tells us, that this cannot continue, without the system collapsing, which has occurred.

    It is not about debt. In my humble opinion. It is about how the so called debt has arisen. It has risen by not making those who can afford to pay, pay. By transferring the cost to low income earners.

    These are the issues, among others that need to be debated before the next election. The world is on the verge of a new era,, both globally and technologies.

    New, important economies are a becoming a reality, in the east as in the west.

    Yes, there is a new world order, and it is exciting.

    No matter where one looks at the world, there is a great change.

    The answers for the future will not and cannot be found in the past.

    We do not have the time to be diverted by trolls. They are doing politics and the nation a disservice.

    If an Opposition cannot address the need of the country, now and in the future, they have little to offer.

    There are two issues facing the nation. Global warming and a global economy. If we hide our head in the sand, we will miss out on the goodies of both.

  122. “Insisting journalists be sacked.”

    I find that quite shocking. Poor old Michael Smith lost his job because of something he was going to say about Gillard. Apparently he did not even say anything but he was going to say something and Gillard arranged for him to lose his job.

    That alone is enough to vote against Gillard. It also shows that ALP supporters have no regard for the truth. If Howard had done something like that??? Well we all know what leftoids would say.

  123. US President Barack Obama claimed a mandate on Friday to hike taxes on the rich to pay down the deficit, firing his first post-election shot at Republicans in a year-end showdown on debt and spending.

    The president also announced in a punchy, televised White House appearance, his first since his election night address, that he would call top Republican and Democratic leaders to the White House next week.

    http://www.news.com.au/world/obama-to-speak-on-fiscal-cliff-showdown/story-fndir2ev-1226514107307

  124. I want to hear what their dreams are for the future.

    If you can call them “dreams”…

    More carbon pollution.

    More poverty.

    More intrusion of business into government.

    More intrusion of religion into government.

    Destruction of public health and education.

    One-party Lieberal media with no exceptions.

    Third world pay and working conditions.

    … This is why we resist.

  125. “There are two issues facing the nation. Global warming and a global economy. If we hide our head in the sand, we will miss out on the goodies of both.

    That would have to be the greatest oversimplification I have ever read.

    “It should be fought on who has the nest plans and dreams for the future”

    Is there even a yardstick for plans and dreams?

    “Yes, there is a new world order, and it is exciting”

    Only if one is prepared to allow the UN and the bankers total control of Australia. CU, please get a grip. It’s a rough ride but stuff like this doesn’t help at all.

  126. Maybe this is an idea for a page. One where facts can be checked and noted.

    ………….I reckon it’s the fact-checker development that will travel across the Pacific most easily.

    As Julia Gillard and Tony Abbott shape up for the 2013 federal election, we can expect local versions of the Post’s “Pinocchio Tracker” and PolitiFact’s “Pants on Fire!”…….

    http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/pinnocchio-the-future-of-australian-politics/

    At least the lies would have to be identified and analyzed.

  127. “At least the lies would have to be identified and analyzed.”

    There’s plenty of that happening already CU, it just takes a while to bring to account those telling the biggest porkies!

  128. Funny, I thought fact checking was the role of the media.

    At least I thought that was so.

    It appears now, that they are leaders in the field of misinformation.

  129. Would rather be talking about real problems. Much rather like to see action taken to protect our children from some of the most powerful bodies in the land.

    We need to take our head out of the sand, and start saying, enough is enough. It is simple, all investigations are carried out by police, regardless of what church leaders believe.

    INDEPENDENT senator Nick Xenophon says allegations of child sex abuse and systemic cover-ups inside the Catholic Church warrant a national royal commission.

    “The days when we allow the Catholic Church to be its own investigator are well and truly over,” he said in a statement on Saturday.

    The senator was responding to calls for a NSW royal commission by a senior police detective who claims evidence of paedophilia has been destroyed by Catholic priests.

    Senator Xenophon said the allegations of Detective Inspector Peter Fox were so grave only a national royal commission could get to the truth.

    PS. I was reared as a Catholic. Educated in their schools, including a stint at boarding. Also attended state schools. Found little differences in the educational standards of both.

    It is time this problem was put to bed, for once and all. Yes, a national inquiry is the only way to go.

    Got to get past the so called RC politicians first, though.

  130. ‘THE Ten Network has fired dozens of newsroom staff, including Melbourne newsreader Helen Kapalos, in an attempt to slash the cost of producing news.

    ‘After failing to reach its target of more than 100 voluntary redundancies, Ten started sacking reporters, producers and newsreaders on Thursday and yesterday, targeting mainly senior staff.’

    Amanda Meade in the Oz

  131. Romney Is President

    Good piece.

    Another parallel between Romney and Abbott showing the dwindling white male mindset, which Treeman so aptly displays here.

    They are a dying breed, they just don’t know it yet, and when they get a kick up the arse into the reality of the modern world, just as the Republicans did, they still believe they are the winners and were unfairly robbed in their postulate pustulate alternate reality belief of superiority.

  132. It has been rumoured here that George at The Australian was pushed and Bolt’s show is to be axed.

    Bolt’s show is now out rating Insiders but the politically astute one here gets his political fix from Bob the Builder. Snigger.

  133. I happen to like bob the builder, at least he shows people how to build thing, where as bolt the dolt only wants to pull things down.

  134. Bolt’s show is now out rating Insiders

    You got an authoritative link for that scaper? I very much doubt the veracity of the statement, putting it mildly…

  135. Looked for the latest ratings of the Bolt report but all I could find were August figures where the Report was 54th behind Micallef’s Mad as Hell Again and the Report Encore edition at 94.

    I think the furphy of the Report beating Insiders has been exposed previously, unless there are newer figures?

    Bob the Builder still the winner, Bolt still the dunce.

  136. Bolt Report inaccurate with ratings data

    By David Knox on October 3, 2011 / Filed Under News 56
    Yesterday Andrew Bolt slipped in a reference to ratings figures that suggested The Bolt Report has more viewers than ABC1′s Insiders.

  137. I won’t link to it, but on his blog, he compares his figures from the show and the afternoon repeat with just the initial showing of Insiders on ABC1, completely ignoring the figures for ABC24 (on at the same time as ABC1) and the evening repeat – typical right-whinge dishonesty :roll:

  138. If channel ten is acting in the best interests of its shareholders in slashing and burning its staff and programmes it should be axing the programmes that do not have sufficient audience and advertising revenue. But it still persists on keeping Bolt to satisfy its political shareholders Gina, Lachlan and James. So much for integrity. So you think you can dance was axed yet generated at least 200% more viewers than Bolt. Political not Economical decisions that the Murdoch Empire would go for the jugular if the ABC did something like this.

  139. I have heard statements that Labor supporters will criticise Labor govts. However it would be hard for anybody not to condemn the previous ALP govt.

    http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/national/icac-told-obeids-made-100m-from-mining/story-e6frfku9-1226515007126

    FORMER NSW Labor MP Eddie Obeid and his family may have acquired $100 million in profits as a result of decisions Ian MacDonald made while resources minister, a corruption inquiry has been told………..One of the tenements, Mount Penny, fell directly under a farm owned by the Obeids……..It involved enormous sums of money and went “inside the NSW cabinet room”, in which assets worth tens of millions in revenues were passed to third parties “for a comparative trivial return for the people of NSW”, he said.”

  140. Neil

    If the investigations are true then they should all be jailed. I do notice however your superman speed in putting that investigation on this blog site. Just where was your superman speed in posting the allegations against LNP members in QLD over the last week.

    Both sides have crooks and the only ones we find out about are those that are caught out.

  141. Shane, Neil be fair and tar both sides with the same brush, now there’s a joke. Yet he’s always so quick to condemn the left for not condemning their own when they often do, but he never ever does the same for right and in fact goes out of his way to make excuses and cover up for them.

    Hypocrite.

  142. I do notice however your superman speed in putting that investigation on this blog site.

    I think this enquiry has been going on for some time. I must admit though, it is something i have wanted to post for a while. Rosendaals name (NSW ALP Treasurer) has also been mentioned in this enquiry.

    I tend to be one sided because you lot are one sided. However even the most one-sided ALP supporter would have trouble supporting the previous ALP govt.

  143. That is O.K. El Gordo.

    Always good to repost what ministers in the previous ALP govt got up to

    Here is another link to the same story

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/state-politics/obeid-made-100m-from-ian-macdonal-coal-licence-favouritism-icac-told/story-e6frgczx-1226515006029

    A CORRUPTION hearing in Sydney has been told an inquiry into the granting of coal exploration licenses in 2008 by disgraced former NSW resources minister Ian Macdonald will examine alleged corruption “on a scale unexceeded since the days of the Rum Corps.”

  144. “Only if one is prepared to allow the UN and the bankers total control of Australia. CU, please get a grip. It’s a rough ride but stuff like this doesn’t help at all.”

    As I suspected, Treeman is an ultra right wing conspiracy theorist. He probably believes in the black spy helicopters as well. One world government is just around the corner Treeman.

  145. And Neil shows why he’s a hypocrite again.

    Whenever past corruption matters are bought up against Liberals or Nationals, or even current ones like what O’Farrell and Newman are doing, he goes on about it being in the past and we look to the now of the Labor government, never to the past failures of the Liberals.

    Yet time and again he brings up the past of the Labor and gets all uppity if we bring up Howard’s gross failings as Treasurer under Fraser.

    Are there no Liberal ministers like Mirabella who have engaged in or are being accused of corruption, hang on, yes there are, and this is recent:

    The liberal party has been accused of corruption with Mandurah Liberal candidate Tony Solin at the heart of the issue.

    In a parliamentary hearing yesterday Shadow Attorney-General John Quigley accused Mr Solin in a motion of public interest of having an “inappropriate” relationship with Health Solutions (WA) – the private operator of Peel Health Campus – who appointed him in a $200,000 public relations job for the hospital just months before he was endorsed as the Liberal candidate for Mandurah.

    Mr Quigley claimed allegations were made by directors at HSWA in 2000 of $430,000 being transferred into a private company account to which Mr Solin was the sole director.

    The $430,000 was transferred to private company Corporate Financial Services without consent from the directors of HSWA.

  146. I tend to be one sided because you lot are one sided.

    That’s bull Neil and you know it. You are one sided as you have a completely ideologically closed mind and Liberal blinkered outlook on life and no amount of information or facts will ever have you make even the slightest criticism against those you are so mindlessly enamored of.

    Yes “you lot” are one sided but at least they are more honest and open in their one sidedness, criticising and holding to account when it’s due, something you will never ever do with your beloved Liberals.

  147. I tend to be one sided because you lot are one sided.

    Is the the much vaunted ‘balance’ that theirabc is supposedly striving for.

    Cos he sounds a lot like their ‘reporters’

  148. ‘How will we know?’

    From this distance you would normally see tell tale signs, some kind of anecdotal evidence to lend credence to the hypothesis.

    Good afternoon Tom.

  149. Can’t help liking Latika.

    Of course not, she is a liberal cheer leader, no matter how often she denies it. A short follow on her twitter stream exposes her bias clearly.

  150. That statement also proves the lie of el gordo voting for Gillard, as does just about every other hard right statement and provocation of the left el gordo makes come to think of it.

  151. Whenever past corruption matters are bought up against Liberals or Nationals, or even current ones like what O’Farrell and Newman are doing,”

    What is O’Farrell doing that is corrupt?? Going to be hard to top the previous ALP govt.

  152. Its true Mo, I voted for my Joan of Arc and on a single issue I have deserted her… and as every day passes the stench of corruption drives me further away.

  153. Neil, you could be right about that inquiry that is going on at this time.

    Problem is that their is no evidence that any corruption has occurred.

    Every sentence and utterance is accompanied by “if” and “maybe”. or “could be” or “may have”.

    It could just be that a minister manged to get a good deal on a car, and his wife a lousy driver.

    A Labor family has been very successul in their business dealings.

    This enquiry is open about the reason it has been set up for.

    That is to find out if there has been any crooked dealings.

  154. “What is O’Farrell is doing that is corrupt?? Going to be hard to top the previous ALP govt.”

    Maybe one could start with a certain casino proposal. Would love to see the headlines if it was Labor.

    Shame that Packer seems to have got both sides on-board. Was one Obeid, cannot remember.

    Claiming false deficits might also come into the frame, if one was a cynic.

  155. Maybe one could start with a certain casino proposal. Would love to see the headlines if it was Labor.

    Has O’Farrell received any personal benefit from this?? Usually when corrupt behaviour occurs both sides receive some benefit.

  156. What about political benefit.

    Do not know, as the same family name seems to be involved. Believe he is an ex minister.

    Neil, I am quite happy to wait and see if there is any corruption, before I begin throwing stones.

    We will see what the next four or five months throw up, if anything. It seems they are relying on people coming forward with evidence, if it exists.

    Hard to convict on the maybe or could be.

    I am not too sure on what grounds they have set this inquiry up on. Does not appear to be many grounds, except for the coincidences..

  157. I think the only true test is to give Bolt an hour running in the same timeslot as Insiders. Don’t watch Insiders and rarely watch The Bolt Report because I can’t stand the former and the latter is too late as I’m not a Sunday vegetable. If a Bolt segment is of interest I can watch it on his site.

    I see that Clive is talking about court action against the LNP and the way it came about and if true, Clive will run them over the hot coals. Apparently the executive did not meet in full, there was no written notice and Clive was deprived his right to a fair hearing.

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/now-clive-palmer-threatens-to-sue-lnp-over-his-suspension-from-the-party/story-fn59niix-1226515164793

    Highly unusual behavior.

  158. More evidence that there is little in this economy for Abbott to fix.

    A new report has found Australia’s productivity problems are not as bad as widely thought, and are largely due to one-off factors.

    Australians have been repeatedly warned by the nation’s economic policymakers that incomes will start falling with commodity prices unless productivity improves.

    However, a report commissioned by the McKell Institute think tank has concluded that Australia’s productivity performance is not as bad as economic policymakers have led the nation to believe.

    .
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-11-12/report-shows-australia-pro

    ductivity-not-so-bad/4367440

  159. As long as it does not single out his church, so he said.

    As some said, that does not mater.

    As at the end of the day, it will be about the RC.

    Better than the state effort which wants to confine it to the police.

  160. Neil

    There is no need for both sides to have benefitted for there to be corruption. Ideology and political point scoring along with pig headedness and spite also influence politicians.

  161. “Its true Mo, I voted for my Joan of Arc and on a single issue I have deserted her… and as every day passes the stench of corruption drives me further away.”

    I call crap again. And do you know why?

    Because the single thing you say you have turned against her for Abbott is going to do worse, yet you have stuck up for Abbott many times.

    You continuously slag off Gillard deliberately twisting her name as an insult and put down, yet you rarely do so for Abbott.

    All your positive platitudes are reserved for the right and negative bromides for the left. When you have Treeman praising you and patting you on the back you are as far right as Howard as you can get and saying you voted for Gillard is bullshit.

  162. Mobius I have voted Labor all my life and voted for Gillard at the last election, sadly she spat in my face.

  163. My memory must be failing me. I remember Mr. Howard carries so much respect that the voters threw him out of his seat, as well as government.

    ………….Separately, Coalition leader Tony Abbot has drawn on the era led by former Prime Minister John Howard as his ideal vision for improving Australia, Fairfaix Media reports.

    ”I want people to respect our polity again – as they did in the days of John Howard,” Mr Abbott said.

    ”I want people to be able to see our country abroad, doing good things, helping our neighbours with cash, with regional mateship – as they could in the days of John Howard.”……………

    http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/Coalition-to-cost-policies-before-election-ZX3A5?OpenDocument&src=hp5

  164. Mr. Abbott wants to uplift parliament, as Mr Howard did.

    Suggest he begins on the 21, the first opportunity he will get.

    He needs to act as a statesman, and he may be able to achieve what Mr. Howard did not, respect.

  165. Yep, el gordo, she bought in her promise to put a cost on carbon emissions.

    Fool you, if you did not listen.

    I did, I went back after I heard the no carbon tax, to see what she did say.

    May not have voted for Labor, if I did not listen to the whole paragraph.

    I would not have supported a proposition not to do so.

  166. el gordo, not too sure who you could vote for.

    Mr. Abbott has a much more expensive and less likely to work policy of Direct Action.

    You do indeed have problems.

  167. “Stitched up a deal with the watermelons.”

    Suspect that is your normal vote. Funny, Billy Hughes said he could not go that far, after he tries everyone else.

    Another funny thing is that the PM would put together a government that relied on the MP’s the voters voted for.

    That is shocking. We all know that Greens and other elected outside the two main parties have no right to have their voices heard.

  168. Stitched up a deal with the watermelons.

    And got what she said before the election she would try to achieve. It’s called negotiating ;)

  169. Joolya was the driver who scuttled Kev’s ETS and when she knifed him I didn’t object.

    Labor shouldn’t be in this pickle, but the PM couldn’t give up the ring and opportunistically formed a minority government with the watermelons and ignored her Labor base.

  170. Nats…serving their rural interests.

    The Nats don’t serve their rural interests and time after time have voted with the Liberals in policies that were against rural interests.

    If you look back you will see that both Federally and at the State level it’s Labor who have done the best for rural areas, just as they have nearly always done better for pensioners, who also vote for the Liberals despite that.

    So all this proves is that your really don’t vote for Labor and probably never have because you certainly know smick for the party you say you vote nor smick for the party you say you will now support.

  171. What pickle, el gordo.

    A scheme in place. The sky has not fallen in. The PM still is governing.

    Again, what pickle?

  172. ‘at the State level it’s Labor who have done the best for rural areas’

    In the NSW election the Nats did well, so we have to assume the farmers, graziers and small business owners in the bush punished Labor because of corruption and mismanagement.

    And as I’ve mentioned before, at the state election the coal miners joined them in a vote of no confidence in Labor….all sending a strong message to Canberra on the stupidity of taxing a harmless trace gas.

  173. eo gordo, who says she is going to get kicked out.

    Mr. Abbott sure has had no success in that regard.

    She still has not rolled over and died.

    He looks like the one ready to expire.

    Just came back from a successful overseas trip.

    Economy still travelling well.

    Polls not going backwards.

  174. el gordo, you do need to get the facts correct. It is not a Labor/Green coalition.

    It is a minority government, that governs with the support of Greens and Independents.

    There is a big, big difference.

    The support they give, is not to support a no confidence motion, if one arose.

    That is the only way the government could be dismissed, is not having the numbers in such case, on the floor of the lower house.

    There was an agreement made, that labor would support some policies of those on the cross benches. Most of what was agreed to have been passed, where possible.

    I do not believe the PM agreed to anything that was not already Labor policy.

    Minority governments are common in the states and around the world.

    Personally I would rather a minority government, than one with a big majority. More democratic.

    What I find amazing, in this minority government, most, if not all have gone through with no amendments.

    The only time Howard managed that, was when he has majorities in both houses.

    The reason for this is I think, because of the laziness and lack of the Opposition. An Opposition who only focus is daily stunts and saying no.

  175. el gordo, if it is about policies, Mr. Abbott will be in trouble.

    It will not be about man made climate change or the so called carbon tax.

  176. Jane, the stink that el gordo smells is one of desperation from the right, not stink of corruption from the left.

  177. More shocking abuse in Catholic schools. Arrest tonight. Abused a policeman and bikies years ago. Another ring. A number of offenders.

    It is definitely not in the past.

    What is coming out is unbelievable.

  178. ‘grodo, you are more full of bovine excrement everyday.’

    Comrades, Labor has lost my vote for at least a decade, but I’m prepared to accept Abbott is a dill and should be replaced by Julie Bishop.

    That would be an extraordinary contest.

  179. el gordo, I believe you are pulling our leg.

    There is no contest between the two. Meowing like a cat and death stare, are not a skill that attracts votes.

    It takes much more than that.

    Yes, both live in sin and have no children. That is where any likeness ends.

    One worked for the workers, in the unions. The other for the bosses.

    The younger Ms. Bishop played a big part in the Hardie matter as a solicitor.

    Nope, el gordo, no contest. I am afraid that Me. Bishop will always be the bridesmaid. A role she plays well.

  180. I have noticed that the right wingers who come on here state that a LNP will win the next election, when they are asked why, they sprout everything negative they can think off about the Labor party, but when ask to put up something positive about the LNP, more negative, like anyone would be better than this current mob.

    Nothing about policies or why a LNP would be better. I think it is getting to the stage where they should put up or shut up!!!!!

  181. I hate to say this, but was just over at the visitors web site, He is actually saying that the PM set up the Royal commission into Paedophilia as a cover for her time at Slater and Gordon.

    He then goes on to say it will not be off benefit to anyone other than the Lawyers and other fat cats who just want to make money from this commission.

    His other article on the subject is just as bad, even though he condemns the priests, his replies to some of the posts, he is actually defending the church.

    He is a truly vile man for saying what he has said.

  182. you made me go there paulwello. He has a fairly strict comment policy it appears. My first one didn’t make the cut :(

    I’ll re-supply it here to show just how defamatory it was

    nutcases and cranks are still going on about Slater and Gordon. Meanwhile, the Government does what howie was too chicken shit to do.

    Suck it up Princess

    nasty lefties :lol:

  183. ‘I think it is getting to the stage where they should put up or shut up!!!!!’

    We are still a year out from the election, far too early for the Opposition to flag their true intentions.

  184. ‘There is no contest between the two. Meowing like a cat and death stare, are not a skill that attracts votes.

    ‘It takes much more than that.’

    Yep…you’re right, Julie Bishop is a nasty piece of work. How about Bronwyn Bishop?

    Two ex lawyers going head to head would see the msm feasting.

  185. Opposition to flag their true intentions.

    What to go to an election with no intention to have there policies costed or go to an election without any policies, What is now el gordo.

  186. The Opposition doesn’t need their policies costed at this stage, but it would be nice to speculate on what’s up for grabs.

    For starters the whole Green Energy thing will be scrapped, there will be savings there.

  187. And when the LNP bring in there Direct action, $1,300 per person, per year with no compensation, that’s a big laugh.

  188. I’m hopeful the Direct Action strategy will be scuttled before the election….otherwise its a pox on both their houses.

  189. otherwise its a pox on both their houses.

    They currently have that as their policy (if it can be described as such)

    Do we assume therefore that there is, from your viewpoint, a pox on both houses?

  190. Yes Tom…if the Coalition go to the electorate with their Direct Action Plan I will write ‘a pox on both houses’ across the ballot paper.

    A year ago Barnaby Joyce said the Coalition’s DAP was a meaningless ‘gesture’ and I agree with him.

  191. So, it is only Tony who knows who the real Aboriginals are.

    TONY Abbott has described Australia’s first indigenous lower house MP Ken Wyatt as an “urban Aboriginal” and says parliament must do more to encourage “authentic” indigenous representatives.

    Mr Abbott said he was “very proud” that Mr Wyatt had entered federal politics as a member of the Coalition but said he hoped Northern Territory indigenous MP Alison Anderson would also join his team in order to better represent “the ancient cultures of central Australia”.

    “I would love to see the first female indigenous member of parliament be a member of the Coalition I lead,” Mr Abbott said.

    “I would love to think that a highly traditional Australian Aboriginal (Alison Anderson), who is nevertheless charismatic and inspirational in modern Australia as well, might enter the federal parliament.”

    Mr Abbott flew to Alice Springs on the weekend to try to persuade Ms Anderson to run in the Country Liberal Party preselection race for the federal seat of Lingiari….

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/more-authentic-aboriginal-mps-needed-tony-abbott-says/story-fn59niix-1226515871824

  192. More opposition lies. Too many to list from the article.

    ..Turnbull isn’t the only figure to have misspoken on the Internet filter this year. In February, for example, Conroy himself appeared to consciously tell a factual inaccuracy with respect to the implementation status of the mandatory filter at that time, stating that Telstra and Optus had implemented the mandatory filtering system, when they had only implemented a drastically reduced voluntary version. In addition, Conroy has not yet responded to a list of questions sent to his office regarding basic aspects of the new limited filtering scheme….
    http://delimiter.com.au/2012/11/13/turnbull-inaccurate-on-internet-filter-details/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Delimiter+%28Delimiter%29

  193. I would like to report the shocking story I heard this morning on the ABC radio when Steve Lewis was being interviewed.

    It appears that in 1995, Mr. Wilson gave one of his underlings an envelope with about $5000 in it tt. The underling was also given a slip of paper with a bank account number and the name Julia on it. He was asked to deposit the money,in the bank.

    Now to be fair, Mr. Lewis said that it was not known if the account was the PM’s . Whether it was a personal account or not.

    Also there is no record of what the money was for. Also it was not known from where it came from.

    Somewhere along the line, they got to say, that Wilson had been gambling about the time. No idea what that means.

    Now we have a sum of money, that knows one knows where it came from, , that is to be put into an account, that may belong to the PM, for whatever purpose, no ones knows.

    It appears according to Mr. Lewis, that this information will help the Opposition put pressure on the PM.

    So, I take from that statement, a story about nothing, has been told, so that Mr. Abbott, or more likely Ms. Bishop has something new to stand up in QT to ask a question.

    Mr. Lewis was careful to say, that no one was saying there was anything wrong or illegal about the money.

    This could not possibly be the new information that was to be released in ten days.

  194. HEDLEY THOMAS, NATIONAL CHIEF CORRESPONDENT From: The Australian October 18, 2012 12:00AM

    POLICE in Victoria are assessing new information about a union fraud scandal that led to Julia Gillard and her then boyfriend, disgraced Australian Workers Union boss Bruce Wilson, leaving their jobs amid criminal investigations in two states 17 years ago.

    Chief Commissioner Ken Lay’s office has directed that the new material, including a statement from former union bagman Ralph Blewitt, be reviewed by detectives pending any decision on whether to reopen an investigation that ended in 1996.

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/industrial-relations/police-weigh-new-evidence-on-awu-slush-fund-claims/story-fn59noo3-1226498125589

  195. Surprise jump in consumer confidence (poor joe hockey. i can hear him sob now)

    Rather than the “election of Obama” as the reason for the jump, how about something from australia. How about the lies about the Carbon Tax effects, such as End of Australia as we know it, the electorate realises that the real lies were those of Tony Abbott . As a result, the consumers are happy to now spend.
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-11-14/consumer-confidence-makes-surprise-jump/4371428

  196. Seen Abbot on today with Dutton, who I have never seen with such a long face. Dutton, that is. Was at some club in Brisbane. Knows Queensland well, visits there often. Spent school holidays there as well. Gee, that makes him one of the mob.

    Abbott reads out a list of rises in the cost of living for each group. The one that stood out, was 1.9% for pensioners. Not sure over what period. I suspect the compensation was more that that. Of course no mention was made of this.

    For all his efforts, the press did not ask one question in this regard. More interested in his church.

    Mr. Akerman was pulled up the other day for saying the compensation was one off.

    Just like to correct the record. Compensation is ongoing.

    Another correction, which is not related but needs to be corrected was made by Ms. Vanstone. She said that asylum assessments need to be made offshore, so they cannot hog court system. Ms Vanstone needs to be told, that two court decisions at least, allows asylum seekers access to the courts, no matter what,

    They cannot be denied this right. One would think someone, such as this lady, would keep herself abreast of what is going on, before commenting.

  197. On Wednesday The Australian newspaper published fresh claims by former union employee Wayne Hem that he deposited $5000 cash into Ms Gillard’s bank account at the request of Mr Wilson in July 1995.

    Mr Hem recalled Mr Wilson arriving looking scruffy after a night out at a casino and telling him to come to his office.

    ‘I went down and he handed me about five grand,’ Mr Hem told the newspaper.

    ‘He said ‘there’s five grand there’ and I looked at it and said ‘Is this for me?’

    ‘He said ‘No, I want you to put it into a bank account.

    ‘Then Bruce handed me a piece of paper with the account number and a name on it, and it was Julia’s name. He said ‘go put this in Julia’s account.”

    Mr Hem said in 1996 he told then AWU joint national secretary Ian Cambridge about his concerns.

    Mr Cambridge, now a Fair Work Australia commissioner, made diary entries which reflected Mr Hem’s recollection.

    A spokeswoman for Ms Gillard said she had ‘dealt with the matters extensively on the public record and has made clear on numerous occasions that she was not involved in any wrongdoing’..
    http://www.skynews.com.au/topstories/article.aspx?id=816196&vId=3647035&cId=Top%20Stories&play=true

  198. This does not surprise me. I have noticed that shopping centers appear busier.

    There has been a surprise jump in consumer confidence, as the many interest rate cuts delivered through the year finally begin to sway households.

    The Westpac-Melbourne Institute consumer sentiment index rose by 5 per cent in November to 104.3.

    That is the highest level in a year-and-a-half, and just above the 100 level that suggests there are more optimists than pessimists in the economy….

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-11-14/consumer-confidence-makes-surprise-jump/4371428

  199. CU
    community cabinet tonight

    Gillard just on abc news 24, was questioned about the alleged $5000. she said no allegations by the australian after “investigations” all year. said campaign against her was smear. and also said that abbott after saying he was only interested in ” things that matter” had been out smearing her each day.

    “things that matter” sounds a bit like downer, but then abbott’s approval ratings are as good as downer’s .

  200. Should we be voicing our outrage about police and their use of tasers. We had that shocking report last night and the coroner’s report today.

    Heard a overseas expert say this morning, it is an example of lazy policing. Cannot help but agree.

    It is cruelty.

  201. said campaign against her was smear.

    And I reckon a few journo’s might get their knuckles rapped

    Or not :(

    The reporting today by Mr Baker is misleading. The facts of Ms Gillard’s role in the conveyancing matter are already on the public record. As reported recently in other media outlets, other practitioners within the firm were responsible for the conduct of the conveyancing file.

    http://www.slatergordon.com.au/media/news-media-releases/vic-act-sa-tas-nt/Media-statement-regarding-article-published-in-The-Age

  202. Thanks for that link Tom R
    Gee’s cartoon on the race to the deliver the death blow to the fourth estate, is apt today.

  203. There were two pages in the Australian today. Listening to Mr Steve Lewis this morning, the PM allegation that the Opposition will be able to use the information, even though Lewis said there was no evidence of the PM doing anything wrong.

    Yes, the PM is correct to accuse the media of creating so called news stories for the use of the Opposition. The Lewis interview was on ABC radio this morning.

    I have written it up in more detail earlier today.

  204. If that unnecessary surplus does not appear, there is still plenty of scope to cut benefits that go to high income earners.

    THE richest fifth of households receive nearly half of all the wages paid in Australia but also get about 12 per cent of all government handouts, new research by the Bureau of Statistics shows.

    The findings not only highlight big income disparities across the community but raise questions about the scale of “middle-class welfare” flowing to well-off families.

    The richest fifth of households had nearly three-quarters of all savings.

    The bureau has for the first time measured household inequality with the same data it uses to calculate key national economic indicators such as gross domestic product.

    Advertisement It revealed the poorest 20 per cent of households receive just 2.5 per cent of the nation’s wages and salaries in 2009-10 while the richest 20 per cent gets about 47 per cent. When income, government cash payments and social transfers in kind (such as public education and healthcare) are taken into account the poorest fifth’s share of “adjusted disposable income” was 11 per cent and the richest fifth 36 per cent.

    But maybe the most revealing finding was the amount of government assistance being transferred to high-income households. The preliminary results showed the richest quintile of households received about 12 per cent of social assistance benefits while the next highest quintile got 11 per ……………………

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/national/to-those-who-have-much-more-will-be-given-as-handouts-20121114-29cpv.html#ixzz2CEJfQq00

  205. Of course it could not be as the PM predicted, that when the people became aware that Mr.Abbott’s scare campaign was nothing but hot air and based on lies, the polls would turn.

    Nothing to do with Mr. Abbott at all. It is just that the awful PM is picking on me.

    Mr. ABBOTT REACTION IS TOO GET OUT AND ABOUT, UPPING THE LIES.

    TONY ABBOTT has attributed his latest popularity plunge to ”nasty, personal” attacks by Labor, as Liberal MPs confided their leader needed to cut down his media appearances to soften his own reputation for negativity.

    Commenting after the latest Newspoll showed his satisfaction rating had hit a personal low, Mr Abbott sought to project a positive demeanour and said he would not stoop to the ”nasty, personal commentary” of Labor.

    ”Every day I’m talking to the people of Australia about what we in the Coalition can do to improve their lives,” Mr Abbott said in Kevin Rudd’s seat of Griffith, where he was launching the campaign of the Liberal candidate, Bill Glasson. ”I just want to talk about how we can be a better country, how we can give new hope to the Australian people, how Australians…………………..

    Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/opinion/political-news/abbott-should-leave-attacks-to-deputies-say-liberals-20121113-29afx.html#ixzz2CEN7afrK

    One thing I do not understand, how Mr. Abbott with his religious background can come out, supporting the call for the sanctity of the confessional, can be so easily put aside in the name of protecting children.

    One can only sense, this man will ditch all to get that job of PM. It just does not ring true.

    Not from a man. a man that entered the seminary at one stage in his life.

  206. ”Every day I’m talking to the people of Australia about what we in the Coalition can do to improve their lives,”

    lol CU, I guess he means like workchoices

  207. What is it. Would one employ this man?

    Wonder if he will just wave his magic wand to bring about the miracle he promises. Well, he is light on telling us how.

    TONY Abbott will today promise to double small business growth if elected, in a bid to win support from the sector.
    The Opposition Leader will pledge to boost the number of small businesses by “around 1.5 per cent” annually. Current growth is averaging 0.7 per cent a year.
    The move means Mr Abbott is effectively promising to return small business to the growth rates of the Howard government, before the global financial crisis.
    The doubling would produce about 30,000 extras businesses a year, with a significant increase in job numbers.
    “Specifically, the focus will be on growing the number of small businesses that employ and provide jobs,” Mr Abbott says in a speech prepared for delivery today to a Menzies Research Centre forum on small business in Melbourne.

    http://www.news.com.au/business/your-business/abbott-gives-small-business-big-focus/story-fn9evb64-1226516871706

  208. This is what has happened, Not promise, but is in place.

    The Government had promised all companies a tax cut of one per cent funded by its mining tax but could not get the support of the Opposition and the Greens.
    But in the May Budget the Government offered a new loss carry-back scheme, allowing businesses to offset a current year tax loss of up to $1 million against tax paid in previous years.
    Calculated to be worth up to $300,000 to an eligible business, it was aimed at helping 110,000 small enterprises.
    And from July 1 all small businesses could also immediately write off every asset they buy for less than $6500, and write off up to $5000 of the cost of cars or utes.
    Official figures show that between 2007 and 2011, the number of small businesses in Australia grew by an average annual rate of 0.7%.
    There were 1,985,822 in 2007 and 2,045,335 in 2011, an increase of 59,513 new small businesses over four years, or around 14,900 every year.
    Under the Howard Government, between 2003 to 2007, the average annual growth rate for new small enterprises was around 1.8 per cent a year. Over those four years, there were an additional 143,000 new small businesses representing close to 36,000 new starts every year.

    Read more: http://www.news.com.au/business/your-business/abbott-gives-small-business-big-focus/story-fn9evb64-1226516871706#ixzz2CEsQcprQ

  209. CU @9.26

    “TONY Abbott will today promise to double small business growth if elected, in a bid to win support from the sector.
    The Opposition Leader will pledge to boost the number of small businesses by “around 1.5 per cent” annually. Current growth is averaging 0.7 per cent a year”

    Tony Abbott’s promise on making MORE small businesses, reminds me of the joke.

    How do you make a small fortune?
    First start with a large fortune.

    Abbott’s knowledge of economics and the australian economy should have a lot of medium size businesses worried.

  210. Abbott studied for a Bachelor of Economics and a Bachelor of Laws at Sydney University and for a Master of Arts as a Rhodes Scholar at The Queen’s College, Oxford University.

    Any Rhodes scholars here? Didn’t think so. Anyone here ran a business or been in charge of a company. Silly question!

  211. I’ve got a bit of a business brain.

    However, you run a government a bit differently than running a business. In business the bottom line is all important whereas in government the bottom line shouldn’t take priority over the delivery of essential services. It’s an age old argument, unfortunately.

    Look at Howard. Ran a surplus but ignored services and infrastructure.

  212. If Abbott has such an understanding of economics how come his solution for dealing with the GFC was so completely condemned by ALL the experts and the results of the ALP solution, which has delivered, Much to the chagrin of the LNP and their trolls, one of the strongest economies in the developed world?

    Abbotts “Roads” scholarship (on his bike) Nyahahahahaha.

    The man has a mind like a steel trap….. rusted shut :lol: :lol: :lol:

    Cheers

  213. The same experts that did not see the GFC coming until it ran over them???

    Oh, Blewitt is squealing to the Victorian Police on Gillard’s involvement with the slush fund. Next session of Parliament will be a hoot.

  214. Blewitt is squealing to the Victorian Police

    not yet he isn’t. He wants immunity lol

    Their ‘expert’ even admits being a crook ROFL

  215. Abbott’s plan to double the rate of growth of small business makes sense to me.

    What else would you do with do with all the unemployed that his version of austerity (aka “surplus”) would create.

    They’ll be the ones selling trinkets, pens etc at bus stops and railway stations.

  216. Small businesses have grown at a rate of knots for one major reason. Large compnaies have forced staff to set up their own small business which is then contracted to their previous employer. This avoids annual leave, long service leave, superannuation, sick leave, overtime, insurance, an office etc etc. Small business has grown as a direct result of employees being forced into small businesses to save costs for large employers who only wish to remunerate their fat cats at the top.

    It allows a big business to then screw small business operators who were previously paid a salary, to accept lower and lower terms and conditions for their work contracts. This is how wages and conditions are now driven backwards and downwarrds without any real scrutiny.

    That is how Tony will grow small business numbers, at the expense of all the previous employees and their benefits and to the benefit of the fat cats. In all honesty a despicable act which has been totally overlooked by the also privatised and consolidated media which itself has outsourced many of its employees for the same purpose.

  217. Abbott’s plan to double the rate of growth of small business makes sense to me.

    What else would you do with do with all the unemployed that his version of austerity (aka “surplus”) would create.

    They’ll be the ones selling trinkets, pens etc at bus stops and railway stations.

    Small businesses that rely on discretionary spending – restaurants, cinemas, travel agents and etc – will suffer when the Liberals inevitably change IR laws to bring about reductions of people’s disposable income (wages) and job security (consumer confidence).

  218. Wasn’t it hockey who was asked something economic the other day, and ran away telling the reporters he didn’t want to ‘bore them’ with details

    dingbat style economics

  219. Shane, at least there is one here and over the years your comments suggest that you are above the baracking for a team mentality. None of them are worthy of worship but see plenty of it from both sides…useful idiots comes to mind.

  220. scaper

    You are correct I do not play a team mentality. The massive growth in small businesses at the expense of previous employees and the resultant savings being paid as obscene and disgraceful management who profit off the misery of sacked employees is disgraceful and has been happening for quite a number of years under both LNP and ALP with total silence.

  221. Well I am going to stick my neck out. I agree with what was discussed back in the dark ages, and which I believe our PM commented on.

    One cannot describe some marriages as little more than legalized prostitution. Sorry, they are not all based on love and respect, especially in the past.

    All those princesses down through history, that were sacrificed to buy nations and empires. All those mail order brides from near Asian countries, who seen such marriages as a way out of poverty.

    What about the women, left with big families, had no choice but remarried when their husbands dies, to survive.

    Yes, one can put some marriages in the same basket as prostitution.

    Yes, there has been much serious research in this matter.

    Thankfully today, women do appear to have more choices. They have the option of earning their own money. In the past, there was two choices, be supported by dad, or marry. There were no other options.

  222. shaneinqld @ 12:13 pm

    Shane and that was exactly what WorkChoices MkII as engineered by Minchin was when revealed. It was so draconian and the backlash so swift and severe that Howard immediately disowned it fobbing it off as nothing more than a draft of an idea that would never see the light of day.

    I have no doubt if Howard won in 2007 with a half decent margin we would have seen WorkChoices MkII introduced, or at least a step towards it.

    There was a survey of company directors recently and there is no need to point out what they wanted with the double furphy of productivity being up there.

    Their voicing of lower productivity is code for cheaper labour.

    It’s a double furphy because as has been pointed out productivity is relatively high and not the major problem companies make it out to be so they can push for lower wages and conditions, but as WorkChoices MkI proved reduced wages and conditions lowers productivity, it does not increase it.

  223. scaper, we are all aware of Abbott’s education achievements.

    May be you can explain why he insists on presenting himself as being economically ignorant. Not much better on the law for that matter.

    I believe he spent more time in the boxing ring and with the Jesuits while at Oxford. May be that is the problem.

    Personally I do not believe he is as stupid as he wants us to believe. It’s his way of avoiding answering real questions.

    Yes, I believe he knows what he wants to do. He will just not tell us.

  224. I would like to say, we are being bombarded with pages of entries from diaries and other sources today, to prove the PM’s guilt.

    How many have looked through an old diary from years ago, and tried to work out what the entries mean. One is generally written in a type of shorthand. One knows at the time, the meaning, but when taken out of context, many years later, it can mean anything. It could mean you spoke to the person. It could mean what the person said. It could mean that you wanted to raise the issues with the person. It could mean, that someone told you something, you wanted to check on.

    Unless one wrote, so and so told me this in a phone call today, one cannot assume that is what it means. Is it the PM’s hand writing. Did the person who did the Conveyancing asked the PM what were the arrangements. Who knows.

    To write across the bill the words declined and Julia, tells one nothing. Maybe the person doing the Conveyancing left the bill on her desk, asking what was to be done about it. May be the PM wrote declined and Julia while going through documents to be dealt with. Who knows. It is the way a lot of office and people work.

    All we have is a collection papers and documents that some are reading their own meaning into.

    I really have concerns for the psychological health of the reporter who is carrying out the investigation. It appears to have become an obsession with him, I would not be surprised if he was diagnosed with a thought disorder.

    I believe he has lost his sense of judgement and is seeing what is not there.

    Many journalists are distancing themselves from the story.

  225. Shane, in my experience many would prefer to work on a subcontract basis due to the taxation treatment.

    I had three that would not go on wages. At the same level the cost of wages and all entitlements was $44 per hour. That was what they charged plus GST. Their choice, not mine.

    I know what goes on out there with arsehole bosses, that is why I was opposed to Workchoices. Don’t think much of the Fair Work act either but when things pick up it will be labour hire only, if I indeed bother to regrow the business.

  226. scaper, you have proof. I suspect that if this occurred as you say, it would hold one back.

    Of course the likes of Hawke did not sleep with others. Why did Fraser lose his pants in the USA.

    Sounds like the normal love life of many in our society today.

    It is called personal life, that has little to do with one’s career.

    The only one I would not put in the frame is Howard, mainly because he is too boring to appeal to anyone.

    scaper, every time the debate gets away from you, we have this name calling and inferences that have nothing to do with what is being talked about. You do not even bother to come up with anything new.

    The next step will be, to call us names and tell us we are stupid.

    Some have better luck in their personal love life than others. That is all it means.

  227. scaper

    I have 6 self employed who are looking for full time employment in their own industry. So I will agree to disagree. While the taxation benefits may be a lure, when the income dries up because their contract is given to someone else with a lower tender, then all the taxation benefits in the world amount to zilch.

  228. that is why I was opposed to Workchoices

    It is amazing how few actually argued in favour of it back in the Dunlop Days, even though I do recall quite heated discussions taking place, ostensibly all between people supporting the same thing :shock:

    btw, what was your moniker back in those days?

  229. So you think it is ok for a person to have an affair with a married man with children for four years?

    Also ok to have an affair with a work colleague who had three children that led to the family breakdown? If so, I don’t share your ethics and to justify it by naming supposedly others is a moralistic vacuum.

    Don’t lecture me on name calling, I’ve seen plenty from your side here over the last few weeks. The most disgusting was a couple of months ago when someone here said that Abbott should have his tongue cut out. Real class!

    Also, do you know that Hedley Thomas is the lead investigator of the AWU affair? He gives no side any quarter but you accuse him of having a psychological problem? You are all man, no ball.

  230. Being an employer, I will never put my guys on AWA’s. For starters it would create the them against me attitude. I can not see how it would improve productivity either. I get productivity by paying above the award and by loyalty to my guys. I also take offence to any government telling me how to run my business, especially this government who hasn’t invested in our childrens’ future in good economic times. scaper…
    scaper of Brisbane
    Thu 23 Aug 07 (03:16pm)

    http://blogs.news.com.au/news/blogocracy/index.php/news/comments/workchoices_survey_of_employers/#ixzz2CFxE6ivc

    The behaviour of your namesake on that thread is interesting too Tom

  231. scaper, you got one thing correct, I have no balls. Have manage for seventy years without them.

    How do you know what was going on in those marriages.

    How do you know who is to blame.

    By the way, there were also men involved, but you obviously see the PM as a redheaded siren, that men cannot resist.

    Yes, scaper, it is still ones personal life.

  232. Thanks Bacchus, I believe I am, in all departments,

    It annoys me when one starts making value judgements on the relationships of others.

    One has no idea what is going on in any family. Things are generally not what they seem. Many even stayed under the roof for the well-being of the kids, the marriage long dead.

    The simple fact it is no ones business. No one had the right to judge or criticize. They do not know the facts.

    Divorce and separation are no longer seen as a crime.

  233. Oh dear…plays the man, not the ball.

    Now smearing Hedley. Can’t recall any smearing when he exposed the Haneef affair. Can’t get your heads around the fact that some people are not narrow minded party supporters, like yourselves.

    Yep, a vacuum!

  234. Spot on as usual CU. It is only of interest to some as a negative Lieberal “talking point” nothing more, nothing less…

  235. Did I mention Hadley by name. What in the hell is he trying to do the the PM.

    The Even other journalist is saying they cannot see what he does. Yes, he is obsessed with the matter. What else can one call it. Whether he is ill, well that is another matter. Only his doctor could answer that one.

    Why is it OK to attack the PM every day for decades, but one cannot say a thing about those throwing the dirt.

    Why is disagreeing with the man, smearing him. I am playing the ball, but pointing out that the news bearer might be losing the plot a little.

  236. When one says they have a smoking gun, it is prudent that it has bullets in it, as one does want to be left shooting blanks.

    This smoking gun is little more than a cap gun, Big bang, no bite.

  237. Abbott’s problem could be similar to what I said about Howard, no woman is interested. May be I am wrong. Could not imagine myself with him.

  238. “The only one I would not put in the frame is Howard, mainly because he is too boring to appeal to anyone.”

    Don’t be too hasty here CU. There’s been a rumour floating around for years. It’s often given as the reason Janette insisted on living in Sydney.

    If there’s nothing in it, then the source of the rumour was probably Howard himself.

    I mean, to all his predecessors it was one of the perks of office, and he probably wouldn’t have enjoyed being the ‘odd man out’, so to speak.

  239. Earlier this week, I pointed to a post-ideological era of political economy – something most easily seen by voters largely oblivious to economic theory. Yes, the voters who re-installed President Obama.

    And the same thing could happen here. Australians have much more to lose than US voters in economic terms, and so while many see the Gillard government as rotten and ‘illegitimate’, there is likely to be a strong element of self-interest expressed at the polls late next year – an acknowledgement that ‘they might be rotten bastards, but they’ve been pretty good for my bank account’.

    The coalition has to promise to take the world’s best performing economy, and make it even better.

    That’s a hard sell, and one would have thought that coalition strategists would be building a platform to sell the opposite message: “Only the coalition can preserve the wealth we have in the face of growing threats.” ……….

    ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I have been a strong critic of the Gillard government’s attitude to debt – borrow today, because a coalition government will have to pay it back tomorrow! – but again, an orderly return to surplus, and a paying down federal government debt at a steady pace looks wiser that suddenly slashing the amount of AAA-rate government paper on issue.

    If an Abbott government did that, even that pension fund money would be looking for another home, thus creating another vicious circle for the Australian dollar.

    In short, the 2013 election should be a competition between two parties promising a steady hand on the tiller of the Australian economy – not sudden changes to our settings, but a gradual reorientation for a national economy sailing way too close to the wind……………

    http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/Abbott-Gillard-Australian-economy-dollar-commoditi-pd20121115-22SS7?opendocument&src=idp&emcontent_asx_financial-markets&utm_source=exact&utm_medium=email&utm_content=133619&utm_campaign=kgb&modapt=commentary

    Yes, the world, it is a changing.

  240. They are revealing the new Chinese leaders ABC24 More interesting I would say, than either the PM’s or Abbott’s love life.

  241. And orderly retreat to an 80 cent dollar is, of course, something our manufacturers and exporters have pined for – but a sudden tumble would cause political havoc as the major parties trip over each other promising to tackle inflation.

    Then again, inflation might be the least of our worries, particularly if the current Abbott agenda is put into practice from late 2013 onwards. Tony Abbott has repeatedly said we’ll see his full suite of policies ‘in plenty of time before the next election’ – but as I argued on Tuesday (The second lesson of Romney’s defeat, November 13) the expenditure-slashing plans he has hinted at (and in some areas already detailed) could have a disastrous effect on the fragile sectors of the economy such as retail and services.

    And why is this not being discussed? Because we are still in the grip of the othodoxy that slashing public expenditure and cutting taxes – both of which Abbott says he will do – is assumed to stimulate private sector demand.

    Oh yeah? In normal times, perhaps. But banks have been telling us for some time that interest rate cuts are helping households to deleverage at ever-faster rates – my strong suspicion is that the Abbott tax cuts would do the same thing.

    http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/Abbott-Gillard-Australian-economy-dollar-commoditi-pd20121115-22SS7?opendocument&src=idp&emcontent_asx_financial-markets&utm_source=exact&utm_medium=email&utm_content=133619&utm_campaign=kgb&modapt=commentary

  242. “It’s a double furphy because as has been pointed out productivity is relatively high and not the major problem companies make it out to be so they can push for lower wages and conditions, but as WorkChoices MkI proved reduced wages and conditions lowers productivity, it does not increase it.”

    There was a similar report on AM a couple of days ago ME:

    “A new report commissioned by the McKell Institute says Australia’s productivity problems are not as bad as many people would think and are largely due to one-off factors.”

    Here’s 2 interesting quotes from the AM report placed in juxtaposition:

    “GREG EVANS (ACCI): Both taxation policy and industrial relations flexibility, these are the key issues that our membership consistently reports back has been a drag on the capacity of their businesses to be more profitable and productive. ”

    “ROY GREEN (co-author of the report): At a statistical level, we could not find any compelling evidence for industrial relations reform having an impact on productivity growth.”

    That sort of leaves the productivity improvement ball in the court of the firms I guess.

  243. The Prime Minister, Julia Gillard, has launched a scathing attack on the opposition and The Australian newspaper over an allegation that as a lawyer she received $5000 cash from her former boyfriend and Australian Workers Union official Bruce Wilson.

    She described Wednesday’s newspaper article, which said former union employee Wayne Hem had put the cash into her bank account at the request of Mr Wilson in July 1995, as part of an ongoing ”smear campaign”.

    She has consistently denied any wrongdoing or personal benefit from her involvement in setting up a union fund for free and off the books when she was a lawyer for Slater & Gordon in the 1990s.

    Ms Gillard said there was not one single ”substantiated allegation” in The Australian’s article.

    Advertisement She said in the past three days she had announced a royal commission into child abuse, met the US Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton, to discuss national security in the region and was now in Queensland looking at a major infrastructure project ahead of a community cabinet.

    ”During these three days, what’s the opposition being doing? Every day they have been out further pursuing these smears,” Ms Gillard said. ”Every day they have been engaged in smears.”

    The editor-in-chief of The Australian, Chris Mitchell, defended the story, saying the newspaper had obtained diary notes from a former national secretary of the AWU, Ian Cambridge, who had investigated the union ”slush-fund scandal” in the mid-1990s. “The PM has not dealt with these facts,” Mr Mitchell
    http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/cash-claim-simply-a-smear-says-pm-20121114-29ckb.html

    One would assume the PM would have been asked the questions back in the 1990′s, if the investigator had any concerns.

    They are not new to the investigator, as they are taken from his notes.

  244. From your link CU…

    but again, an orderly return to surplus, and a paying down federal government debt at a steady pace looks wiser that suddenly slashing the amount of AAA-rate government paper on issue.

    Remember back in the early 2000′s when Costello paid off all the Fed debt (by selling assets) and the flow of C’wealth Govt Securities dried up ?

    Well, the “markets” went apeshit and Treasury had to issue “debt” so they’d have some paper to sell (and keep the commissions flowing).

    Government debt is actually corporate welfare (and entirely optional)

  245. A former Democrat adviser now living and working in Canberra said Obama, like other second-term presidents, is now free from having to run for re-election and will seek to leave a legacy. This could include reigniting the push to put a price on carbon. More so as it would raise huge amounts of revenue and could be sold as a deficit-reducing measure.

    A double-dissolution would be the last thing on Abbott’s mind at the moment. His challenge remains to win the next general election and he is taking nothing for granted.

    But if he won, Labor, should it retain the whip hand in the Senate, could do worse than to pause and take stock before throwing its policy principle to the wolves. Forcing a newly-elected government to hold another election holds little risk for an opposition.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/rushing-back-to-the-polls-fraught-with-danger-for-abbott-20121111-296bg.html#ixzz2CGHIhlLZ

  246. There are 3 things that are a threat to humanity, ignorance, stupidity and mediocrity.

    Explains why the Liars are f*cked, then. Like Sloppy Joe, treetroll can’t add. I’ll just stick in #5-mendacity.

    So you think it is ok for a person to have an affair with a married man with children for four years?

    Also ok to have an affair with a work colleague who had three children that led to the family breakdown?

    Alternatively, do you think it’s OK for a married man to have an affair for 4 years? Or for a married work colleague with three children to have an affair which ended the marriage?

    There are 2 parties in any affair, scaper. Frankly, if you’re married, the onus is on you to keep your knickers on.

    CU & MJ, the thought of either the Rodent or Liealot unclad is enough to bring on a complete mental breakdown. The Rodent, in particular, brings to mind the Protestant scene in Monty Python’s Meaning of Life movie.

    The Rodent, a nasty mealy mouthed creep who makes the flesh crawl. Liealot is just repulsive.

    The Prime Minister, Julia Gillard, has launched a scathing attack on the opposition and The Australian newspaper over an allegation that as a lawyer she received $5000 cash from her former boyfriend and Australian Workers Union official Bruce Wilson

    The point being? No doubt he also took her out for meals, to the movies, maybe even on weekend getaways and other goodies you get when courting. I bet he even forked out for flowers, chocolates and birthday and Christmas presents.

    This latest load of old cobblers shows just how desperate they’re getting to pin something on the PM. The $67K cheque hasn’t worked, the conveyancing scam hasn’t worked, and the alleged five grand won’t work.

    Perhaps we should just chuck them a couple of straws and a suicide note. :???:

  247. I wonder who are really living in fantasy land. This article and Tony Smith ignore the elephant in the room. The elephant is that Labor since 2007 has and continues to deliver one of the4 best economies in the world.

    If those cheques did go to the deceased, I have news for the writer, they would not have been cashed.

    For the money fo have any effect, it had to be got out and spent before the unemployment began. Too late once people are sacked.

    IT is many years since I did high school economics. One thing that I have never forgotten, is that unemployment, once it reaches a certain level, feeds off itself. Therefore the only answer is not to let it rise in the first place.

    The second thing we saw over the last few decades, it that after every financial downturn, that it takes longer to get the unemployed back to work. Not only takes longer, but cost more.

    No, those who believe Labor failed, are those who hide in fantasy land.

    The facts are simply not on his side.

    Tony Smith is the Liberal federal Member of Parliament for Casey.

    Tony, one would have more faith in your side, if you could come up with new arguments, that relate to the world today, and tomorrow. Please tell us HOW you intend to do better. Saying you will, without how, does not inspire confidence.

    THIS week we marked the fifth anniversary of Kevin Rudd’s solemn declaration that the Howard Government’s “reckless spending” must stop.

    Made in the final lap of the 2007 election campaign, Rudd’s pronouncement was intended to buttress his self-proclaimed credentials as an “economic conservative”. Never mind that by April 2006 the Howard government paid off $96 billion in net debt left behind by Paul Keating.

    And never mind that by election day 2007 the Coalition had put $45 billion in the federal Treasury’s coffers as a rainy day fund for the Commonwealth.

    Kevin Rudd’s words bore no relationship to reality, but that didn’t stop his glib lines from playing very well. And his slick rhetoric helped to reinforce the belief of too many Australians that voting in Labor would be cost-free.

    But if Rudd’s talk was cheap, his actions cost the Australian taxpayer dear. In a spasm of panic at the global financial crisis, he posted $8 billion worth of stimulus cheques out to households throughout the country and beyond…..
    ……..Looking back at what has been gives us a pretty good indication of what is to come. In fact, strategic analysts from firm Macroeconomics came out with a forecast that over the next four years Swan’s policies will tip the Commonwealth Budget into a structural deficit hole $122 billion deep. So you can kiss goodbye any prospect of a surplus.

    Labor’s fiction factory will produce more prevarication, more pretence and more profligacy. After five years of fudge, falsehood and flim-flam, the degeneration of the ALP into the FAP – the Frank Abagnale Party – is …………

    http://www.heraldsun.com.au/opinion/finance-fantasy-land-has-become-labor-party-territory/story-e6frfhqf-1226517686364

  248. “Macroeconomics ”

    Who are these people and what weight do they carry. Also today, we have a business group attacking our IR system.

    One thing for sure, they are always out in front, when assisting the Liberal agenda.

  249. When it comes to alliteration Tony Smith is superb.

    His economics however is dismal.

    I often wonder when Conservative pollies come out with this sort of nonsense whether they actually understand the underlying (and mathematically remorseless) monetary realities, or whether they really are just thick.

    And which is worse.

  250. Ignorance, I believe. The willingness to hide one’s head in the sand. The belief that one can say anything, and the people will follow. The belief that anything goes.

    The willingness to talk down the economy, if that is what it takes.

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  252. Why does the media not point out, the general is not a serving army.

    Yes, General Campbell is now a public servant. Yes, it is not a military operation.

    The question I asked, why does Campbell appear in uniform. David Marr at least pointing this out.

    Nikki Savvi does not seem to realize, this man is not acting for the military.

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