Café Talk XIII

Café Talk, the ‘Back Home’ edition.

338 comments on “Café Talk XIII

  1. More conservative confusion with arithmetic, accounting and economics. From the Liberal government in New South Wales…

    A billion dollar stuff-up has given the state government’s financial credentials a bloody nose but also dragged its budget back into the black.

    Treasurer Mike Baird’s first budget was revealed to have been littered with accounting and data entry errors that meant his deficit of $337 million should in fact be a surplus of $680 million.

    In a scathing assessment of how the government misplaced $1 billion, Auditor-General Peter Achterstraat said the budget result had “bounced around a bit like a pinball machine”.

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/treasurer-mike-bairds-1-billion-blue/story-e6frg6n6-1226507864653

  2. When the Houston Report was released, I had hoped that people would actually read it. That does not seem to be the case for the media. Suddenly migration zone became news.

    This recommendation got a lot of attention.

    Recommendation 8
    The panel recommends that a capacity be established in Nauru as soon as practical to
    process the claims of Imas transferred from australia in ways consistent with australian and
    nauruan responsibilities under international law (paragraphs 3.44-3.55).

    I remember the media talking about this. I remember the coalition strutting. I remember pictures of Nauru. But I do not remember anyone in the media or on either side of the house or in the Greens that mentioned anything about this

    Recommendation 14
    The panel recommends that the Migration Act 1958 be amended so that arrival anywhere
    on australia by irregular maritime means will not provide individuals with a different lawful
    status than those who arrive in an excised offshore place (paragraphs 3.72-3.73).

    Suddenly this is now news? Suddenly this is something out of left field (or far right field)? The report was right there in the public domain. You did not read it. Apparently this is the governments fault.

    Also this week. The coalition voted against free enterprise. Again. I actually think this is a very big thing. Pity media are not on this. You see, the coalition are two parties. One is the Liberal Party. And one is the National Party. And these two parties have distinctly opposing views on some issues. One of them was Wheat deregulation. And one is the MDB.

    Now for the last two years, the Nationals have been loyally tagging along with the Liberals supporting stuff that they would never have if this was not a hung parliament. The Nationals bent over to the Liberals on their Health polices, their infrastructure polices, their infantile carbon tax war. So when it came to Wheat, the Nationals expected the coalition to bend over a little.

    Things to note. The coalition in the lower house of federal parliament is made up of three parties. There are the Liberals (44 of them) and there are the Liberal National Party of Queensland (21 of them) and there are the Nationals (7 of them). Tony Crook is yet from a different mob called the WA Nationals.

    Of the 21 LNPQ reps, most are regional ex nationals. So you got 44 Libs, 21 lib/Nats, 7 plain nats and 1 independent. So issues that affect regional electorates split the coalition into multiple fragments, even splitting the Liberals themselves.

    Already Jamie Briggs from the Liberals is agitated with the LNPQ colleagues like Barnaby Joyce on water and wheat. And this on top of the foreign ownership campaign Barnaby has been running.

    In all this huff and puff and chaff, two MPs with checkered records have become spokesmen for sanity.

    Craig Thomson clearly did read the houston report because he was against off shore processing from the start. Thomson voted against his former party.

    Peter Slipper lashed out at the coalition for their refusal to deregulate Wheat. He called it a political tactic designed to shore up the ‘flawed and fatally terminal’ leadership of Tony Abbott. Slipper voted against his former party.

    Flux. Influx. Cause. Effect. Chaos. Order. Ying. Yang.

    This is not a hung parliament. It is a karma parliament. One we voted for and deserved. One we got even though we claimed we were not ready. Someone should call the Karma Police.

    http://ashghebranious.wordpress.com/2012/11/01/recommendation-8-and-14-and-sorting-the-wheat-from-the-chaff/#comments

  3. Listened to Baird this morning on radio 702

    No one seemed to be buying what he has to say.

    Conversation over the weekend, led me to believe many are becoming angry, as they learn the changes wrought on workers’ compensation. Which by the way, Baird tried to add onto the government debt this morning, until an expert in the field told him he was happy for the government to take responsibility, but sadly the boss was still having to pay that one.

    Someone needs to buy Mr. Baird a simple calculator. One that primary school kids use should be suitable.

    We can look forward for the cost of fire and other services, which are met now by business and insurance being transferred to home owners. Another $300 nor more a year.

    Attended a kids party, where the parents attended. Conversation very soon turned to how workers compensation has been gutted. Yes, it is slowly being noticed.

  4. In QT as the PM was speaking in honour of the VC winner, Pyne decided he needed a glass of water, so walked in front of the camera.

    How do I know he needed water, well the camera had to take a different angle, while the PM addressed parliament.

  5. We live in an era of remarkable change. We can do nothing, or we can grasp the opportunities that are coming.

    Yes we should.

    We are moving into a global world, in all aspects of our lives.

    PM reply to our illustrious leader of the Opposition.

  6. Tony Abbott is looking a bit beaten down these days. He has been for a little while actually.
    People who watch these things closely — and that means almost everyone in this merciless place — are noticing and reacting.
    In the press gallery, that means lots of speculation over coffee, if not yet so much in print and on air, about who might replace him. Give it a couple more of those dreadful poll results showing souring public perceptions of the opposition leader, and he’ll be in their sights, just as Julia Gillard was a few months back

    http://www.theglobalmail.org/blog/the-pack-circles/453/

  7. “Craig Thomson clearly did read the houston report because he was against off shore processing from the start. Thomson voted against his former party….This is not a hung parliament. It is a karma parliament. One we voted for and deserved. One we got even though we claimed we were not ready. Someone should call the Karma Police.”

    Where’s the bullshit button?

    As for Seccombe’s poor excuse for journalism…IMO, it’s just another McTerdnan press release….nice try CU, see beaten really looks like…

    http://pickeringpost.com/article/oh-what-a-look/738

  8. About time.

    Late last year Keith Windschuttle released another book questioning the existence of the stolen generations. But this time, nobody cared, writes Naomi Parry

    Very few people would be aware that Keith Windschuttle released volume three of his series The Fabrication of Aboriginal History in December last year. As Robert Manne observed in his review of the book in The Monthly, it arrived to only the most “strangely muffled fanfare from his friends”.

    http://newmatilda.com/2010/02/15/culture-wars-are-over-and-heres-proof

  9. It appears that the option Mr. Abbott thought he had in accepting Mr. Slippers vote does not exist.

    Mr. Slipper appears not to be in a hurry to support Mr. Abbott.

    Where as Mr. Thomson has chosen to act as an Independent. Voting on the issue, not the party.

    Mr. Abbott cannot even keep Mr. Crooks vote onside. Not even after he joined the main body.

  10. Just a little bit of light hearted humor pointed at the Liberal Party, and only malcon could see the joke.

  11. I just wished he had more time, he would have went through all the coalition. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

  12. paul, yesterday Combet really hit home. He told the Opposition it was time to get rid of their DLP leader among other things.

  13. I read that, there is is in the Global Mail as well by Mike Seccombe.

    The Pack Circles
    By Mike SeccombeOctober 31, 2012
    Tony Abbott is looking a bit beaten down these days. He has been for a little while actually.
    People who watch these things closely — and that means almost everyone in this merciless place — are noticing and reacting.
    In the press gallery, that means lots of speculation over coffee, if not yet so much in print and on air, about who might replace him. Give it a couple more of those dreadful poll results showing souring public perceptions of the opposition leader, and he’ll be in their sights, just as Julia Gillard was a few months back.

    On Abbott’s own side of politics, it means the backbench becoming increasingly unruly in Question Time; like barrackers for a team that is squandering a lead, they try to fire things up a bit. At times over the past couple of days it was impossible to hear the person who was supposed to be speaking because of the cacophony of shouting from the opposition side of the chamber. Yesterday four Liberal MPs became so hysterical in their interjecting that Speaker Anna Burke ordered them out of the chamber under standing order 94a, to cool down for an hour.
    On the opposition front bench, it means other senior people are lifting their aggression levels. Or some of them, at least. Malcolm Turnbull still wears a mantle of weary ennui in parliament, but deputy Julie Bishop and shadow treasurer Joe Hockey are lately more performance-enhanced than Lance Armstrong. Some in the gallery see this as advertising their wares, should a change of leader become necessary.
    And on the government side, it means elevated spirits and a certain arrogance. The prime minister, Julia Gillard, having swatted Abbott down in her world-famous misogyny speech a few weeks back, now gets more animated in her duels with Julie Bishop. Abbott she mostly treats contemptuously.
    It is the opposition leader’s own behaviour, though, that is the real sign that things have changed.
    It used to be that he would open the bowling and carry much of the attack in Question Time each day.
    Not now. This week, Abbott has let the burden of attack be carried by others; the aforementioned Hockey and Bishop, Christopher Pyne, Scott Morrison and the odd backbencher.

    http://www.theglobalmail.org/blog/the-pack-circles/453/

  14. Yes Miglo, and those numbers are climbing.

    I do not believe they will stay away long though. This site is too successful and fills a need for many.

  15. Another Liberal trying to squirm his way out saying something and trying to take it back after being thrown out of parliament. They will never learn

    ‘I was misquoted’ in attack on PM: Laming
    Dr Laming’s interjection was recorded in Hansard, and in the notes of journalists, but this morning he backtracked, claiming he simply shouted “corrupt” during the furore, and others, including the Hansard editor who sits in the chamber, must have misheard him.
    Advertisement
    Dr Laming said other people were shouting the word at the same time.
    He said one Coalition MP had told him he used the word at the same time, but declined to identify the member.
    ”I think that was why it was so audible,” he said.
    But the Hansard office says it is doing a final review of the audio but it is unlikely to be changed, despite Dr Laming’s request his interjection be expunged.
    Dr Laming requested the change today but after reviewing the audio of yesterday question time, Hansard officials kept the “You are corrupt!” interjection as originally recorded.
    Dr Laming said: “We will accept the Hansard determination.”

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/i-was-misquoted-in-attack-on-pm-laming-20121101-28lz8.html#ixzz2AxdKZsMK

  16. Never lost control in the first instance…but I guess names like Nil, el grubo and Trollman could be construed as lost control.

    A bit too much man, not nearly enough ball.

  17. Scaper, I acquired myself a nice little humidor in Vegas which now sits neatly on my wine rack. Soon to be filled with Ashton Cabernets from the Dominican Republic. Damn fine cigars.

  18. I checked that, and its is true, although they are trying to fix it, and there were more.

    Boy cannot get anything right, and has been like that for 3 or 4 days.

  19. FAR from being squeezed, working people are better off than ever, according to the latest figures, with lower costs from interest rates counteracting the higher costs imposed by the carbon tax.
    Average wages climbed 3.7 per cent in the past year (3.9 per cent in the private sector, 3.3 per cent in the public sector). But the living costs faced by working households climbed only 1 per cent in the year to September, an increase that took account of all of the price rises that flowed from the carbon tax.
    The stunningly low cost-of-living increase – half the official inflation rate – was because the Australian Bureau of Statistics’ cost-of-living measure incorporated household mortgage interest costs which slid 6.7 per cent over the year to September and 2.5 per cent in the past three months. It also gave a high weight to motoring costs, which slid 0.8 per cent in the past three months as a result of lower petrol prices.
    The 1 per cent annual rise in living costs was one of the lowest on record and had only been bettered on other occasions when interest rates had been falling.
    Other households for whom mortgage charges and petrol prices were less important were hit harder.
    In Parliament, the Climate Change Minister, Greg Combet, ridiculed a series of “notorious” warnings about the carbon tax from the Opposition Leader, Tony Abbott.
    The ABS said the living costs faced by pensioners and households relying on Newstart climbed 2 per cent. Self-funded retirees’ costs rose 1.5 per cent.
    Other figures showed private sector house building approvals were up 1.2 per cent in September. Approvals for renovations surged 11.5 per cent.
    The BT Financial Group chief economist, Chris Caton, said the news was “not so much a sign of strength as a sign of hope”. Building approvals were volatile and they did not respond predictably to interest rate cuts.
    The Reserve Bank has cut interest rates 1.50 percentage points over the past year

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/business/workers-have-never-had-it-so-good-20121031-28kg9.html#ixzz2AxoVkWZg

  20. But yet the coalition and the left wing trolls will still say “the economy is still not doing well”, I am sick of their negative view on everything.

  21. The economy is bubbling along yet we keep hearing it’s a fizzer.

    Lets just say you are correct. The economy was in better shape in 2007 but it did not help Howard and you still voted for Rudd. A whole generation of Australians had grown up without seeing unemployment with a number 4 in front of it until Howard/Costello came along.

    An economy in wonderful shape not seen for a generation did not help Howard win the 2007 election.

  22. Roswell

    We only have a choice of two in this country. If you vote Green chances are the ALP will get your vote.

    I just guessed. I am sure you did not vote for the Coalition.

  23. Neil, I would suspect record household debt plus of course WorkChoices. Anti-WorkChoices was not a scare campaign, it was highly successful because it was people’s experience. The economy was at that time a non-issue because Howard was intent on eroding worker’s rights in spite of the economy being able to afford to go in the other direction.

  24. because Howard was intent on eroding worker’s rights in spite of the economy being able to afford to go in the other direction.

    I think you are right. It was Workchoices which cost Howard the election. The Unions did run a good scare campaign and if i was on a low wage and worried about entitlements being eroded away I most probable would have voted Labor.

    I read something about double time for working on the weekends. Can’t remember where i saw it but it said double time for weekend work was bought in to stop people working on the weekend. The idea was that after spending 5 days at work the husband should spend the weekend with his wife and kids. So higher wages for work outside normal working hours was introduced to stop people working and spend time at home with the family.

  25. SLASHING middle-class welfare has enabled the government to rein in the deficit without generating greater inequality, Wayne Swan claims.

    While Finance Minister Penny Wong argues that tough decisions are needed over the impact of ageing on the budget, the Treasurer says the savings the government has made have strengthened the economy’s resilience in the face of global uncertainty, while retaining the support of global financial markets.

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/in-depth/miiddle-class-welfare-cuts-help-rein-in-deficit-with-less-pain-swan/story-fng387xs-1226508724593

  26. He said there had been “a great deal of hypocrisy” in the media and opposition criticism of the government’s recent mid-year budget update.

    RECOMMENDED COVERAGE
    Economic figures

    Criticism was coming from “those who bag ‘middle-class welfare’, then attack the government for sensible steps towards making it more sustainable”, he said.

    “It’s not good enough to beat the drum on better targeting payments, then attack the dozens of saves that are doing exactly that, or to simultaneously claim there are not enough savings while in the same pages of the same paper attack the individual saves.

    “Unfortunately, the appetite for structural reform in the column inches before the fact hasn’t always been consistent with what we have seen in coverage after difficult decisions are made.”

    Mr Swan said the budget would be $14 billion worse off if it had not been for the long-term savings measures enacted across a series of budgets.

    He said that focusing stringency on measures such as winding back the baby bonus and changing indexation arrangements for private health insurance meant Australia had been able to lower government spending as a share of gross domestic product without generating greater inequality.

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/in-depth/miiddle-class-welfare-cuts-help-rein-in-deficit-with-less-pain-swan/story-fng387xs-1226508724593

    Hunt back on ABC24 this morning. I lived throughout the installation scheme where millions were wasted. Why not are these idiots pulled up and told that is a lie.

    Hunt challenged on what they are saying on power bills. Still trying to blame rises in electricity on the so called carbon tax.

    Raving on about power bills. Costs are going to stay while carbon tax is in play. Not challenged on how removing carbon tax will bring power costs down.

    Looks like Abbott is attempting to move into policy. Policies that will not cost.

    A party that has promised to bring business costs down since the early 1980’s but only added to them while in government. Examples were GST and Workchoice. Both added to the mountain of paperwork.

  27. espected legal figure and former attorney-general Bob Ellicott has offered to spearhead the constitutional test case, which comes after a series of landmark reforms passed parliament earlier this year – including slashing the Gold Pass entitlement from 25 domestic flights a year to 10.

    The changes also “delinked” superannuation payments for retired MPs from hefty wage increases which flowed through to the 226 MPs and senators in the current parliament to prevent so-called “double dipping”.

    The Association of Former MPs of the Parliament of Australia (AFMPA) believes the changes breach the “just terms” clause of the Constitution – made famous in 1997 film The Castle.

    The association wrote to the Commonwealth about a month ago seeking funding for a “test case” in the High Court.

    http://www.news.com.au/national/former-mps-want-their-perks-back/story-fndo4bst-1226508716051

  28. The Age today: An ominous “Note to PM: Meet the Real Ralph”

    “What Julia Gillard said she didn’t know about the AWU’s Ralph Blewitt, it seems everyone else did. AT FIRST blush, Ralph Blewitt’s CV sings: Vietnam veteran, union state secretary, man of means with a home in Perth and an investment property in the heart of fashionable Fitzroy.
    Julia Gillard certainly had no reason to doubt his credentials back in the early 1990s when she was a partner at Slater & Gordon and the Australian Workers Union was her client – or at least not that she has ever admitted.
    When the West Australian branch of the union needed what was officially described as an association to further the noble interests of workplace reform, safety and training – but what she knew all along was to be a slush fund – it was Blewitt’s name on the paperwork and Gillard’s deft legal touch that got it through the registration hoops. She was more than happy, when word came that Blewitt wanted to buy an investment property in Melbourne, to help find the right place, to do a freebie on the conveyancing, to sort out finance through her law firm’s loan facility and, for good measure, to turn up at the auction with her boyfriend to make sure everything went to plan for the absentee landlord.
    When a few disgruntled union rivals started agitating against Blewitt and published some unflattering pamphlets, it was Gillard’s legal colleagues who pounced with a defamation writ that stopped them in their tracks.
    Asked at a media conference in August whether, in her many dealings with him over several years, she had ever had reason to find Ralph Blewitt to be a ”shonky” character, the Prime Minister replied: ”That’s a question that no one could answer. Did I have any reason to believe that Mr Blewitt was involved in the kind of conduct that has subsequently come to light? No, I did not.”
    The ”kind of conduct” alluded to by Ms Gillard was, in fact, one of the biggest union rorts in Australian history, a scam in which her then boyfriend and senior AWU official Bruce Wilson, in collusion with Blewitt, set up a bogus union reform association from which more than $400,000 in corporate contributions was stolen, including more than $100,000 that went towards the purchase of a residential property in Fitzroy…..

    While she claims to have had no reason to doubt her crooked boyfriend over several intimate years, she is yet to explain why she also had no reason to doubt the bone fides or authority of Ralph Blewitt, his crooked front man”

    Mark Baker is editor-at-large.

    Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/political-news/note-to-pm-meet-the-real-ralph-20121101-28mm8.html#ixzz2B0O5Yx5s

  29. One thing I must say, our visitors are consistent.

    The fact that no one seems interested in their obsessions seems to past them by.

  30. Opposition Leader Tony Abbott has a whole raft of policies to roll out that will be fully costed, his deputy leader Julie Bishop says.

    Ms Bishop has defended Mr Abbott after independent MP Andrew Wilkie said if Mr Abbott failed to come up with detailed policies he could be in “strife”.

    Ms Bishop said Mr Abbott had made more than 40 statements in the past two years outlining the direction the coalition wanted to take the country.

    “Today Tony Abbott is making a very serious speech about the economy and how we would strengthen our economy and cut red tape to make it easier to do business in Australia,” Ms Bishop told the Nine Network.

    “So we have a whole raft of policies to roll out. When we get some clear air I’m sure the media will start reporting on it.”

    Speaking to ABC’s Lateline, Mr Wilkie said the Liberal leader had experienced “a rough couple of months”.

    “It was always going to come to the point where people were expecting him to be the alternative prime minister, to be a statesman, a man who offered a range of well thought out and detailed and fully-costed policies,” he said.

    “He’s reached crunch time. If he hasn’t started acting like that, if he doesn’t roll out good policies, costed policies, he could well be in strife.”

    http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/Bishop-defends-Abbott-after-Wilkie-warning-ZMS46?OpenDocument&src=eiw&ir=4

  31. Its all over red rover…

    ‘THE government has enacted a virtual “turn-back” provision for asylum seekers for the first time, in a crackdown on boat arrivals who fail to make credible claims for entry.

    ‘The Daily Telegraph has learned that 26 Sri Lankans were put aboard a charter flight from Christmas Island back to their home country last night after being refused entry on the basis their claims for asylum were not credible.’

    The Daily Terror

  32. El gordo, that is standard procedure..those found not to be genuine refugees are returned to their country of origin. So much for the Liberal’s scare campaign of some sort of open door policy.

  33. Cu, from your link,

    Ms Bishop said Mr Abbott had made more than 40 statements in the past two years outlining the direction the coalition wanted to take the country.

    The only direction is ’round and ’round in circles, so confused is the Liberals’ stance on any given policy. All one has to do is to mention an item and there will be half a dozen conflicting opinions..see Tony Abbott versus Hockey versus Robb.

  34. Catching up
    November 2, 2012 @ 7:17 am

    What is this mountain of business paperwork you talk of?

    How many businessess have you or do you run? Ever completed a BAS form? Ever been responsible for managing ledgers?

    Judging by your comment I doubt you have a clue about business compliance, apart from taking your lines from some leftist rag.

    In the good old days when I had a seven figure turnover it took me less than two hours a month to manage the ledger and eight hours a year to calculate my GST payable to the ATO. Not even a mole hill opposed to your imagined mountain! Completing a BAS also indicates how ones business is travelling, a quarterly review.

    Your “Workchoice” would involve less than an hour per worker.

  35. “that is standard procedure..those found not to be genuine refugees are returned to their country of origin”

    Er not exactly…Chris Bowen…” there are powers available to the government to return people where they do not engage Australia’s international obligations”

    Spin it how you will Min but this is a desperate move by a government that has lost control of our borders.

  36. Scaper…
    “it took me less than two hours a month to manage the ledger and eight hours a year to calculate my GST payable to the ATO… Completing a BAS also indicates how ones business is travelling, a quarterly review.”

    Agreed. My first GST returns were elected to go in monthly and once the template was in place it took no time at all. her comments suggest CU has no experience in this area.

  37. Those Sri Lamnkas returned did not raise any objections according to the report.

    Many have been returned in similar situations in the last few weeks.

    They did not challenge not being processed, I assume.

    The problem these people have, is that the internal war is over.

  38. Funny Tree, my daughter earns good money each month doing what you have outlined for many small businesses.

    I have not seen any yet that takes a couple of hours per month.

    The merging of awards has added to the workload. I expect this to decrease, as people become more knowledgeable of the smaller number of awards.

    Her clients include garages, catering firms and computer companies.

    Problem is, I cannot see how one can give out money or rebates without data.

    We have seen the outrage from the Liberals when the PM introduced the school kids allowance, paid twice a year. The Opposition was demanding that money only be paid on receipt. Imagine the extra paper work this would have incurred.

    They are complaining that there is forty odd pages explaining how to fill in the forms for the maternity allowance. Would have been a greater outcry, if they did not give clear explanations.

    Alan Joyce, Qantaqs giving an address. ABC 24

  39. “Many have been returned in similar situations in the last few weeks.” Numbers please CU and facts. I have 40 since the weekend and nothing before then based on the premise of not engaging Australia’s international obligations. 1200 have arrived from Shri Lanka in October alone….

    The assumption that “They did not challenge not being processed” is defending the indefensible.

  40. This from on of the liberals staunchest supporters is even attacking team Abbott, Michelle Gratton

    Coalition members crossing the floor on the wheat deregulation bill, dissent on the Murray Darling, Abbotts negativity on everything,

    Headaches for Abbott as tactics falter

    Abbott fluffed his attack on the budget update by falling into the ”sexism” trap over the cut to the baby bonus; shadow treasurer Joe Hockey opened himself to attack by describing 3 per cent growth as ”flatlining”. This week, the opposition has pursued Gillard over her Slater & Gordon days, but so far without effect.
    Amid the internal angst over the polling, Abbott has been confronted with disunity over several issues.
    He has looked both bad and ineffective over his handling of the government bill to complete the deregulation of wheat exports. That they are opposing this bill is contrary to the Liberals’ economic principles. ”How many of the Liberal Party backbench intended to join the DLP?” the government taunted, harking back to Abbott’s admiration for B. A. Santamaria.
    Abbott was simply trying to avoid Liberal defections, but his stand infuriated the West Australian Liberals and he couldn’t hold the line. On Wednesday, two WA Liberals abstained on the legislation. WA National Tony Crook crossed the floor and gave the Liberals a whack for gutlessness. Other WA Liberals will abstain or cross in the Senate.
    Wheat isn’t the only issue where differences are on display. The Coalition can and should highlight Labor’s hypocrisy in proposing to excise Australia from its own migration zone (which the ALP once trenchantly opposed). Moderate Liberals Judi Moylan and Russell Broadbent will not back Liberal support for excision, just as they wouldn’t in 2006. But they won’t be ”heavied”; if the Coalition accuses Labor of deserting what it believed in, it has to make a virtue of its own dissidents who are sticking to their principles.
    There are also divisions in the Coalition over the response to the government’s Murray-Darling plan; while there are attempts to bridge that divide, it could produce defections.
    Dissent on specific issues doesn’t matter greatly – the Liberals have always allowed people to cross the floor. It’s that it puts cracks in the image of unity on which Abbott has placed so much store.

    Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/politics/headaches-for-abbott-as-tactics-falter-20121101-28mpt.html#ixzz2B1EagoW3

  41. Alan Joyce in his address to shareholders…on the result of the fleet grounding and resultant decisions…”it reinforced Management’s right to manage”

  42. Is GST paid yearly?

    I am surprised that anyone working for themselves, providing a service bothers to pay GST

    I know I always get a lower price if I pay in cash. Tradesmen will take me to the ATM, will not take card or cheque.

    Tighten this up, and maybe it will plug many holes in the budget.

    Another Howard and Costello failure. Did not get rid of the black money market. In truth it has grown.

  43. CU obviously knows nothing about GST.

    “I am surprised that anyone working for themselves, providing a service bothers to pay GST”

    There’s a revenue threshold so bothering to pay is not optional.

    “I know I always get a lower price if I pay in cash. Tradesmen will take me to the ATM, will not take card or cheque”

    You’ve been aiding and abetting fraud CU, surely you must have realised what was going on?!

  44. Paulwello
    “This from on of the liberals staunchest supporters is even attacking team Abbott, Michelle Gratton”

    Bwu hahahahahahah the head of the handbag squad “one of the liberals staunchest supporters” hahahahahahahaha…made my day hahahahahah

  45. tree, you are right, I have no experience in the area.

    I can only report on what I observe. I suspect you may have less experience than I have.

    But then as we all know, as you have told us many times, are the expert and only expert on everything.

    I worked much of my time in welfare, both private and public. I hated the paper work, but I am also well aware of its necessity.

    This government has got rid of much paper work and forms to fill in.

    One only has to look at Medicare for starters. If one’s doctor has signed up, one goes nowhere near the Mediacare today. Pay the doctor, money transferred to your account.

    They are still rolling this out.

    Centrelink seems much simpler.

    Tax returns can now for most be done easily on your computer. Many more, thanks to lifting the tax free threshold, to I believe $18.000, a million more, do not have to bother to do anything.

    LIBERALS PROMISES, LABOR DOES, ONCE AGAIN.

  46. tree, not much I can do about it, if I want the sewer drain unblocked

    Yes, I assume they pay some. Y’all have too. I am also sure many do not pay all.

    MY PROBLEM IS THAT i HAVE NOT FOUND ANY THAT DO NOT OPERATE THIS WAY.

  47. treeman, you obviously do not follow Michelle Gratton then, and yes she has changed her tone a bit but still one of Abbotts favourites in the Canberra Press Gallery.

  48. Tree, Abbott has become such a joke, that the media are forced to take him on, unless they want to be tarred with the same brush themselves.

    There are still a handful trying, but I suspect most have given up on him and his present team.

    If there was a change of leadership, I suspect most of that shadow front bench will go with him.

    Many in the media are now doing, as they should have been doing all along, is asking questions of Abbott and his team, and pointing out the obvious lies.

  49. As far as “aiding and abetting fraud”, incorrect. The fraud is the responsibility of the perpetrator not the responsibility of the customer.

  50. I think that tree is inferring, there is no black money market, that leads to tax evasion.

    I think he is saying that Howard did not add to business paper work.

    Any takers out there.

  51. I think it’s safe to say that the introduction of the GST led to a surge in ‘under the counter trading’. Möbius provided some good links some time ago when this subject was raised once before, but I won’t go looking for them now.

  52. It looks like the Liberals Infighting has well and truly begun, They talk about the Labor party in trouble, think they need to look into there own problems as well.

    More controversy in the Liberal Ranks, this time from Howard.

    Former PM John Howard drawn into savage Liberal party brawl.

    FORMER Prime Minister John Howard is being drawn into a savage Liberal Party brawl which is threatening Tony Abbott’s federal election chances.

    The internal row has already cost the party from $300,000 to $500,000 in legal fees and has delayed the selection of eight federal election candidates.

    At issue is a grassroots bid to win the right for local branches to select candidates rather than have them imposed by party headquarters.

    Mr Howard is not directly involved but his long-standing support for the selection of candidates by plebiscite is being raised ahead of a showdown on the issue at a NSW Liberal annual general meeting next week.

    He disappointed many of the grass-roots agitators when told news.com.au he would not take part in any campaign and would not speak in the debate at the November 10 AGM.

    http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/former-pm-john-howard-drawn-into-savage-liberal-party-brawl/story-e6freuy9-1226508890729

  53. Thanks Min, but that does not fit in with tree’s spin.

    I remember at least two plane loads being returned to Sri Lanka last month,

    Then that does not fit in with the spin either. Even though much was made of it in the news.

    As for quotes, I have noticed a change. One is given only one, but demand cash when it comes time to pay.

    If tree desisted in putting gotcha words into his Googling and read the news in general, he would be aware of what is going on, not what he wants to see as going on.

  54. Cu, the stats are there for all to see..I think that it’s around only 35% of those who arrive by plane are found to be genuine refugees with the stats a lot higher for those who arrive by boat. And what has always happened to unsuccessful applicants, they are held in detention pending deportation. Standard procedure.

  55. Yep. I know of many from Liverpool that spent time at Villawood.

    Mostly for overstaying.

    Most managed to get back within two years. Some came by the way of marriage. I am inferring, marriage as a way of gtetting here.

    I wonder what the stats were for those Scouses that came in droves. Could be found on the building sites of those days. Raids were the norm

    Funny, we did not hear about them. Maybe because they were white Caucasians.

    They came here with the intention of staying. They did not meet the guidelines at the time to come legally . I could be a cynic and say they were economic migrants, fleeing the high unemployment of Northern UK at the time.

    Now there could have been, and I am sure many other nationalities, but it was the Liverpoolians that I socialized with.

  56. Yes, Min, every policy he has announced lately has ended up in the dust bin. Especially the last few weeks. Abbott says one thing, others something else.

    I believe he bas at least seven pages of policy on the official Liberal site. All blank.

    Not one policy has seen the inside of the Budget Honestry Office. I will be surprised that any will.

    I believe that Abbott and cop are once again looking into that crystal ball, that5 has let them down in the last two years or more, and see an election in March.

    Once again wishful thinking on their behalf.

    I have never seen a leader get it so wrong for the last three years, and still survive.

    Not one of his predictions has come true.

    All of the PM’s have.

  57. Michelle Grattan;s article is worth a look.

    Not for what she says, but for the tone of the comments.

    Abbott seems to be losing favour among many.

  58. As some are saying, ran a scare campaign. The problem is that it is based on untrue facts, and is coming back to bite them.

    Never a truer word said.

  59. ‘Spin it how you will Min but this is a desperate move by a government that has lost control of our borders.’

    Hear hear….

  60. desperate indeed…Minister Bowen spinning wheels on ABC 24 just now…For most here the oracle has spoken but for mine it’s too little too late and you simply can’t get away from the numbers, 1200 in a month from Shri Lanka and Bowen talks about people smuggler “business models” What a joke this govt has become.

  61. CU, there are three options of how one can do BAS on the form. Option one is my method which is calculate GST and report quarterly so I’m sure you can work out that it takes two hours per quarter.

  62. CU, That is what I got from the article and other as well, the general public are beginning to see what it may actually be like under an Abbott Government because the press gallery are now starting to ask question about their policies, or lack there off.

    This is a quote from the Liberal web site.

    Australian politics is facing an unstable and uncertain future.
    It is clear from Labor’s political tactics that we must expect the most negative campaign in Australian history.
    In conjunction with the unions and leftwing activist groups, Labor will run a highly resourced and coordinated scare campaign to try to avoid any scrutiny of their failures, internal divisions and lack of policy direction.
    In particular, we must expect a highly targeted and personal campaign against our Leader.
    The Liberal Party will aggressively rebut Labor’s negative attacks on Tony Abbott and his team. We will ensure Australians know the facts.

  63. “I think it’s safe to say that the introduction of the GST led to a surge in ‘under the counter trading”

    C’mon Michael, you must have been in nappies before the GST or wet between the ears. Australia was renowned for it long before Howard was born and it wasn’t limited to tradesmen. The unions were renowned for taking a quid.

    “Abbott seems to be losing favour among many.” At The Age CU, only at The Age. Please try and keep comments in perspective!

    “Not one of his predictions has come true.
    All of the PM’s have.”

    Oh dear…for once I’m stuck for words!

  64. If the liberals are so worried about their leader, he should come out and state their policy position, or are they afraid of what people might actually see in their policies.

  65. interesting talk on abbott and his coalition on radio national this morning. kelly was chatting with grattan and bongiordo. the main theme was the unruliness of the coalition back benches. before the second poll of 50:50, which now confirms the trend, the back bench would sit quietly and let abbott lead, now the back bench are throwing themelves into argument and noisily disrupting parliament. they observed abbott in a funk and the party although not immediately looking for a new leader would be closely watching the polls.

  66. Another election speech from Abbott. This has to be the longest campaign in the history of this country.

    Promising little except to set up economic inquiries after election, to find out what they can do.

    He is close to begging for the job.

    This forum is sponsored by the Australian.

  67. ‘or are they afraid of what people might actually see in their policies.’

    As joolya’s guvmint is bereft of original ideas, the opposition would prefer to keep their cards close to their chests.

  68. Just another lie, next he will claim he was was taken out of context. Apparently Laming claimed another Liberal also called corrupt at the exact same time, but declined to name the member.

    “Perhaps, as Laming shouted “Corrupt!” during question time on Wednesday, another of his parliamentary colleagues shouted “You are!” at exactly the same time. Unfortunate coincidences happen all the time.

    Whatever. Laming insisted he did not utter the full statement, even though it was recorded in Hansard and by many scribes in the press gallery, and he was chucked out of parliament over the incident.

    He protested his innocence and sought a change in Hansard, but by close of business, he didn’t have one.

    Read more: http://www.canberratimes.com.au/opinion/politics/cbomb-colours-chamber-in-mps-race-for-cover-20121102-28o2i.html#ixzz2B1kSWgtb

  69. Abbott predicted and believed that the Gillard government would fall, and by now he would be PM. That has not occurred.

    He predicted that Thomson, then Slipper would bring her down., Has not occurred.

    Predicted the CEF would bankrupt the country, Has not occurred.

    He is still not PM.

    Please tell me of one of his predictions that have come true.

    tree, as much as you may not like it, the political climate is changing.

    May be Abbott will win next election. May be Gillard will.

    That we do not know.

    In fact, tree, if you did not also believe this, I doubt we would see you on this site.

  70. Abbott to the press gallery, “I will see in the Lodge for xmas drinks” after he failed with the independents to become the PM. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

  71. Sue, does seem to occur them by that the Opposition was in unison calling the PM corrupt. That only makes it worse. One wonders if they are given a script each day for QT..

    Anyone know that it was that the member for Indi, Mirabella was asked to withdraw on at least two occasions. The look on Albanese’s face, showed he was not too happy with the comment.

    Knowing the past history of the lady, it would be of a sexist nature.

  72. Paul
    “If the liberals are so worried about their leader, he should come out and state their policy position, or are they afraid of what people might actually see in their policies.”

    If you knew anything about politics you would not have written that…The time for policies is closer to the date of the election so they don’t get pinched! It’s always been that way except for the Greens who posture in the name of policy all the time!

    “In fact, tree, if you did not also believe this, I doubt we would see you on this site.”

    That you do not know….and btw, the above “predictions” were never predictions per se, just a bit of politicking CU, no more no less!

  73. “Sue, does seem to occur them by that the Opposition was in unison calling the PM corrupt. That only makes it worse. One wonders if they are given a script each day for QT..”

    They know she is, they just want her to admit it now!

  74. According to our visitors, there is no great impost put on business with unnecessary paper work.

    Pray tell me then, what is Mr. Abbott is promising to do, if he becomes PM. It is now if, not when.

    Doing away with unnecessary paperwork appears to be the basis of his promises today.

    I noticed that none have challenged the examples of where this government has made procedures easier, such as Medicare.

  75. tree, are you really saying that no-one here know anything about politics. Surely you would not be that arrogant or naive.

  76. Treeman,

    If you knew anything about politics you would not have written that…The time for policies is closer to the date of the election so they don’t get pinched!

    The thing is tree, with Abbott in such a whole, they have to do something, them continually saying, “before the next election” is wearing a bit thin, but then again, with the liberal web site and their policies going missing from there it looks like it will be after the next election that they will be released.

  77. Well at least, we no longer see that arrogant grin on Abbott’s face. One has trouble seeing what is on his faces, as it nearly touches the floor during QT.

    The PM is on the Central Coast of NSW, at some function.

    Oh, by the way, that is where many Liberals locals have taken the party to court. Do not like the actions of Abbott or Sinodinos.

  78. Paul, listening to Abbott’s electoral speech today, it will be after the election before we know what he is about.

    Set up an audited, then make up his mind.

    Abbott added that after the elections, there could be many promises that he might have to put off.

    Same methodology as the three state Liberal Premiers as far as I* can see.

    He is asking for a blank cheque.

    Wonder how many are willing to give it to him.

  79. The police and electoral commission called in on corrupt practices in Qld. LNP and Liberal party. Newman’s hand picked beaurecrat Caltibiano and Santoro. Recent corrupt stuff too, just the last couple of years. Now where is Laming from, that’s right Qld Liberal.

  80. Now we know why the word “corrupt” was in the front of Laming’s mind. The Qld liberals have been aware of the dosier, passed to police and the electoral commission, for a couple of weeks.

  81. interesting talk on abbott and his coalition on radio national this morning. kelly was chatting with grattan and bongiordo. the main theme was the unruliness of the coalition back benches.

    this is terrible. So many things to talk about and all they talk about is Abbott and the Coalition. You can tell who Gratton and Kelly vote for.

    Why don’t they talk about the questions Bishop was asking in Parliament yesterday or the fact that the MYEFO budget surplus most probably will not occur. You know govt stuffups.

    But no, these people are using taxpayers money for propaganda purposes. And you people do not blink and eye.

  82. “Why don’t they talk about the questions Bishop was asking in Parliament yesterday or the fact that the MYEFO budget surplus most probably will not occur. You know govt stuffups.”

    Maybe because it has been done to death and most are past being interested.

    As for the proposed budget surplus, where is the evidence that will not occur

    The mid term report identifies extra cuts being made, to bring in surplus.

    Where is the stuff up. Surely you are not talking about a tax on super profits, that is bringing nothing or near nothing in, because at this time, there are no super profits, a stuff up.

    I suggest the stuff up is Abbott’s , when he claimed the MRRT would destroy the mining industry in this country.

    Do you realize, even if the profits were at what they were a year ago, they would have barely contributed 1% of receipts.

    The government is still receiving a healthy level of tax from the normal mining profits.

    There is a good chance that ore prices are again rising, and there will be MRRT collections.

    Where is the stuff up????

  83. ‘And you people do not blink and eye.’

    They are rusted on and the propaganda has completely brainwashed them, so good luck with de-rust.

    WD40?

  84. CU @1.26pm, I would have thought that the Member for Indi would be well advised to keep her gob shut when it comes to talk about corruption.

    Where is the stuff up????

    I think if you were a fly on the Liars Party wall, you’d have the source of the stuff ups, CU.

  85. el gordo, I wonder who has the closed minds on this site.

    Cannot but help think it is the visitors that float by.

    So obsessed are they, that they do not realize the circus had moved on.

    Having Abbott playing the statesman today was a laugh and a half.

  86. Where is the stuff up????

    They cannot forecast anything. Last budget was supposed to be a $22B deficit and it ended up being $40B deficit. How out is this forecast going to be??

    Gatton and Kelly would be talking about this if Howard was in power.

    It is a disgrace to use taxpayers funds for propaganda purposes. Kelly should do what McKew did. Leave the ABC and and join the Labor party.

  87. This from the ABC.

    Hecklers cut into Abbott’s red tape speech

    He says then this this reminds him of his uni days.

    Mr Abbott told the crowd not much had changed at university since his student days.

    “Isn’t it fantastic to see that undergraduate humour does not change,” he said.

    Then This

    But he also warned the Coalition may have to delay some of its spending promises if it wins government because of the poor budget position.

    “I’ve warned shadow ministers that some of our own initiatives might have to be phased in or commenced later than if the current structural budget position were not so poor,” he said.

    He said the Coalition would establish a new working group, headed by Liberal MP Steve Ciobo, to create new productivity policies before the next election.

    I thought said they had their policies, they were costed, but now this, what are the opposition thinking, taking the public for fools. not me.

  88. Neil, the

    Costello could not either. He always under estimated. I can remember many promises, especially for things like roads, that were made over and over, but never becoming a reality. It made it seem like they were doing a lot.

    Neil, even you must realize the figures rely on everything in the economy behaving as predicted, both here and across the globe.

    It depends on the weather, whether there are disasters or not.

    It depends on the rest of the world being able to buy our goods.

    There has been a quicker downturn in ore prices. The rest of the world is not recovering as quickly as it was hoped.

    Has there ever been a time, under any government that the figures come in as predicted. I believe not.

    We have Mr. Abbott is saying today, he cannot make promises, because one cannot predict what the economy will be like after the election.

    What Mr. Abbott forgot to tell us, it will rely on priories as well as what is in the treasury.

    GOVERNEMENTS HAVE CONTROL OVER WHAT THEY SPEND and WHAT THEY RAISE IN RECEIPTS.

    It is up to the citizens to decide if they are willing to spend to make the country great. To alleviate the suffering of the weak, vulnerable, and poor.

    At the end of the day, it is up to what we are willing to pay.

    Governments can grow the pie. Governments can cut until the economy bleeds.

    It is nonsense to say we do not have the money, or we cannot afford anything.

    We, at this moment are one of the wealthiest country in the world. A lucky country indeed.

    At the same time, there are structural problems within the economy, that need to be addressed.

    It is time for a serious debate on taxation to occur. The years of cuts in taxation, mostly to the higher income and business has resulted in huge black holes.

    Neil, I wish it was it was as simple as worrying about debt and budgets not meeting predictions.

    I would love to see a full blown inquiry into the GST. For some unfathomable reason both sides have put this off the agenda,

    I would like to see the debate go back to how the states and federal government raise money.

    I would like to see the states responsible for raising the money they spend. I would like to see the Federal government move out of this role.

    Yes, I would like to see the taxation powers the states gave up during the great war restored.

    If not, I believe we need to look at the Constitution and decide if what we have now works. That is the states and federal government. I believe it does not.

    It does not, because the federal government, by stealth, has taken on too many of the states’ roles, mainly taking from them the responsibility for raising the money they spend.

    Yes, Neil, there is much wrong, but one needs to move on past debt and what Howard did or did not. It is immaterial in regard to the problems we face today.

    The answers will not be found in the past, not unless we go back to what occurred during world war 2.

    The last time anyone suggested we need to continually review the constitution was Whitlam. Have not heard it raised since.

    This is disgraceful, when one realises that it is being changed by stealth and decisions of the Supreme Court.

  89. I am a cynic, but that appears to be a Liberal sponsored stunt. As if they would be allowed to get close to the Opposition leader, if they were not expected.

    If it was not, the security people deserve to be sacked.

    Notice we did not see the ones outside, that also had something to say to Abbott.

    Who else spoke at this forum, put on by the Australian, beside Abbott.

  90. ???? I said “Gatton and Kelly would be talking about this if Howard was in power.

    In other words you can tell who they vote for by what they are talking about.

    I also said “It is a disgrace to use taxpayers funds for propaganda purposes. Kelly should do what McKew did”

    Kelly is paid by the taxpayers i think.

  91. What did McKew do. I believe she got thrown out of the seat. Maybe she might still be there if she listened to the experts. One never knows.

  92. CU

    McKew worked for the ABC. I would think most of the ABC presenters support the Labor Party. It shows by the way they ask questions and what they talk about.

    If Abbott was in govt Fran Kelly would not be talking about the Labor Opposition leader. Kelly talks about the Abbott when in Opposition so you can tell she votes for the Labor party.

  93. Prime Minister Julia Gillard insists the coalition won’t get rid of the carbon tax if it’s voted into power.

    She’s also called a speech by Opposition Leader Tony Abbott on productivity a ‘rehash’ of old ideas.

    Mr Abbott has reiterated that a coalition government would get rid of both the mining and carbon taxes, which Ms Gillard says is part of his ‘con job’ on the Australian people.

    ‘He is trying to tell Australians he’ll get rid of carbon pricing. He never will,’ she told reporters on the NSW Central Coast on Friday.

    ‘They’ll have a little fiddle, they’ll have a little name change if they are in a position to, after the next election.’

    Mr Abbott also told a conference in Melbourne on Friday about the coalition’s plan to cut red tape and announced the establishment of a working group to develop reforms to boost productivity, to be chaired by Queensland Liberal MP Steven Ciobo.

    Ms Gillard said Mr Abbott had ‘rehashed some tired, old ideas’, while noting Mr Ciobo had made ‘absolutely clear’ earlier this year that his answer for productivity was to bring back Work Choices and individual contracts.

    ‘Australians don’t want rehashed ideas from the past like Work Choices. They want us to be building for the future, which is why I delivered a national plan for the future at the weekend,’ she said in reference to the Asian Century white paper

    http://www.skynews.com.au/topstories/article.aspx?id=812193

  94. Gillard relentlessly droning on about her lies…and not being assisted by the members of her own government. What a clown she’s am embarrassment.

  95. Treeman, are you aware that your description of the PM is no more than an opinion.

    A pretty bias one at that. It says more about you, than it does about the PM.

    No matter what the thread or debate is about, this is where all visitors end up. Sad, I would say.

    My humble opinion is that the PM is as gutsy and courageous lady, who had much to give this country.

    Therefore I agree with nothing that you have said. Not if that would surprise you. It might surprise you though, that many do agree with me.

  96. The PM did answer. She said she gave all answers at that long press conference. The PM also said that she would not be repeating her answers.

    That matter was investigated at the time, and rehash regularly. When does one have the right to refuse to answer, saying enough is enough.

  97. The PM did answer. She said she gave all answers at that long press conference.

    But obviously Treeman isn’t satisfied with that. Perhaps he could try writing to her.

  98. ……………Seccombe then described how Greg Combet had mocked the Leader of the Opposition about all the dire predictions he had made about the carbon tax that had not come about.

    He concluded: Combet ”finished his answer with a suggestion that it was about time the opposition got a new leader. He suggested either Hockey or Turnbull and, just for laughs included a possible ‘roughie’, the colourless Kevin Andrews. “Get someone who can tell the truth,” he snarled.”

    “Well, there was hubbub. The government benches roared with amusement. The opposition benches roared with outrage.

    “But Tony Abbott? He made no interjection. He made no eye contact. He stared fixedly at some papers in his lap.”

    Has there been such a disparaging piece in the Fourth Estate? Yet, there has been more.

    Last weekend, in News Limited’s The Weekend Australian no less a Coalition sycophant than Peter van Onselen gave the Opposition Leader a significant spray in Is this the turning point. He begins:

    ”Has the Gillard Labor government turned the corner? The evidence is mounting that Julia Gillard’s political fortunes are improving. Whether these improvements morph into political salvation will take time to assess. There could be as long as 12 months to go before the next federal election is called, and the campaign itself can change the political climate significantly if the contest is close enough going in.”………….

    http://www.thepoliticalsword.com/

    Mr. Abbott was seen as the greatest opposition leader this country has seen. The reason for this, as far as I can see, is to be found in the polls.

    To make Tony the greatest, the low personal polling he has, is ignored.

    Now we have Labor ascending and the Opposition going backwards,

    Does that now make him one of the worst Opposition leaders this country has seen.

    To rub salt into Tony’s wounds, the PM popularity is also ascending.

    By the way, I personally do not put much weight on polls, especially at this point in time.

    The Opposition Deputy leader is right for once, polls go up and down.

    .

  99. tree, it looks like there might be many more delusional people out there, in the wide world. They seem to be coming to the same opinion as we here.

    ……….There is still more from the Fourth Estate. It was in The Courier-Mail that Steven Scott wrote Something in the way he moves – Tony Abbott’s swagger is turning off voters

    ”It’s the swagger. That’s the reason most frequently given by people in focus groups about why they do not like Tony Abbott.

    “To single out the Opposition Leader’s rolling gait for criticism may seem superficial or even unfair, but it’s what this symbolises for many swinging voters that has Coalition strategists worried.

    “To those uncommitted voters whose views are gold to political parties, the cringe factor that comes when they think about Abbott’s confident strut is followed swiftly with a series of negative impressions – arrogant, cocky, angry.

    “In what is now a clear trend, Labor’s support is slowly improving and the Coalition’s is falling. Satisfaction ratings for Abbott are on a continual slide……

    http://www.thepoliticalsword.com/

  100. COMMENT: Something in the way he moves – Tony Abbott’s swagger is turning off voters

    by: Steven Scott From: The Courier-Mail November 01, 2012 12:00AM

    Source: The Courier-Mail
    IT’S the swagger. That’s the reason most frequently given by people in focus groups about why they do not like Tony Abbott…

    http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/opinion/comment-something-in-the-way-he-moves-tony-abbotts-swagger-is-turning-off-voters/story-e6frerc6-1226507805093

    Do you trust this man?  is he angry?  Or is he just worried?

  101. ”It’s the swagger. That’s the reason most frequently given by people in focus groups about why they do not like Tony Abbott.’

    If that’s all, it can be easily fixed…I’ll email him with that advice.

    Don’t suppose you have a link to that focus group data?

  102. Thanx…a Coalition focus group is believable.

    “Tony has got a perception problem everywhere,” one senior Coalition figure says of the impressions voters have of the Opposition Leader. “It’s the way he walks sometimes … the swagger.”

  103. El gordo, are you with me on this? The decades of pointing at objects in the sky are over. We’re sick of pointing. We now want answers.

  104. ‘We now want answers.’

    It would be an epiphany and its the responsibility of the Chinese (being a godless race) to utter the words ‘we are not alone’.

  105. Happy Liberal family here on the Central Coast of NSW. Seems to be getting more attention than Mr. Thomson.

    FORMER Prime Minister John Howard is being drawn into a savage Liberal Party brawl which is threatening Tony Abbott’s federal election chances.

    The internal row has already cost the party from $300,000 to $500,000 in legal fees and has delayed the selection of eight federal election candidates.

    At issue is a grassroots bid to win the right for local branches to select candidates rather than have them imposed by party headquarters.

    Mr Howard is not directly involved but his long-standing support for the selection of candidates by plebiscite is being raised ahead of a showdown on the issue at a NSW Liberal annual general meeting next week.

    He disappointed many of the grass-roots agitators when he told news.com.au he would not take part in any campaign and would not speak in the debate at the November 10 AGM.

    http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/former-pm-john-howard-drawn-into-savage-liberal-party-brawl/story-e6freuy9-1226508890729

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/state-politics/supreme-court-gives-nsw-liberals-meeting-the-go-ahead/story-e6frgczx-1226498905280

  106. LIBERAL leader Tony Abbott’s daughters are looking forward to kicking up their heels with their parents at Derby Day tomorrow following a difficult few weeks for the close-knit family.

    Frances, 21, and Bridget, 19, admit Prime Minister Julia Gillard’s accusations their father is a misogynist have taken a toll on the family.

    “That’s our dad and it’s really hard to hear things that we know aren’t true being said about him,” Frances said.

    http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/national/liberal-leader-tony-abbotts-daughters-frances-and-bridget-to-kick-up-heels-at-derby-day-with-parents/story-fndo2dsc-1226508700536

    What one will do  for daddy. Which one is after that modelling career, that was being manged out of daddy's office.

    I do hope he enjoy’s his day out. He sure needs a pick me up.

  107. rabbit, whose seat? or better still, which end?

    I think it is Thomson’s seat that the trouble is in. Did not like who the locals picked. Sinodinos bought in. The police called, but no action taken, then they took it to court.

  108. Meanwhile the smell that won’t go away…. INVESTIGATIONS
    Gillard failed to disclose slush fund’s existence

    “TWO disgraced union officials were able to sell a Melbourne terrace house and keep fraudulently obtained money after Julia Gillard failed to disclose to the union’s national leadership, or to authorities, the existence of a secret slush fund she had helped set up for them.

    Documents examined by The Weekend Australian show that at the time of the sale in February 1996 the leadership of the AWU, Bill Ludwig and Ian Cambridge, still had no inkling that a slush fund bearing the union’s name had ever been established.

    The AWU heavyweights could not take legal action to stop the sale because they lacked any knowledge of either the slush fund or of the terrace house that had been purchased by the slush fund.

    The AWU was the client of Ms Gillard and of her employer, Slater & Gordon. However, the slush fund that bore the name of the union was never disclosed to the union heads by either the solicitor or her firm.
    This is despite Ms Gillard having been closely questioned six months earlier – in September 1995 – by Slater & Gordon head Peter Gordon about the slush fund, the related fraud claims involving her then boyfriend, AWU official Bruce Wilson, and the terrace house in Fitzroy.

    The firm’s serious concerns after its own internal probe led to the AWU, Mr Wilson and fellow official Ralph Blewitt being abruptly dropped as clients of Slater & Gordon, and Ms Gillard leaving her job in September 1995.

    Julie Bishop asked the Prime Minister in federal parliament on Thursday: “Why did not the Prime Minister herself report the fraud involving the Australian Workers Union Workplace Reform Association that she helped establish?”

    Ms Gillard replied: “By the time the matters she refers to came to my attention, they were already the subject of inquiry and investigation.”

    Documents show that from August 1995 the AWU’s national leaders, Mr Ludwig and Mr Cambridge, were openly and actively using legal and other measures to try to find out everything they could about possible fraudulent conduct, but were stymied by a lack of disclosure.

    They did not discover until later in 1996 that the terrace house had been purchased in early 1993 with money from the slush fund.

    Ms Gillard attended the 1993 auction and was involved in the conveyancing, and has always insisted she knew nothing of the slush fund’s workings.

    The house, which had been bought by Mr Blewitt with almost $100,000 in cash stolen from the slush fund – the AWU Workplace Reform Association – was sold for $230,000 in February 1996.

    The beneficiaries from the sale of the house, Mr Wilson and Mr Blewitt, shared about $80,000 after the repayment of a loan from Slater & Gordon’s mortgage lending scheme.

    From August 1995, the AWU was doing an intense and public investigation of alleged fraud and seeking a freeze on unauthorised bank accounts, while Slater & Gordon was doing a separate, secret internal probe.

    The AWU leadership was alerted to the slush fund for the first time on April 3, 1996, by a Commonwealth Bank officer, Andrew Chalker, who had been asked to identify and report back on every account related to the AWU.

    It took several more weeks before the AWU heads received copies of cheques proving slush fund money had helped purchase the house.

  109. Labor…Biting the hand to save it’s face…

    http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/oakeshott-outraged-by-ministers-legal-threat-20121102-28pgz.html

    Oakeshott outraged by minister’s legal threat

    RELATIONS between the federal government and Rob Oakeshott have turned poisonous after a senior cabinet minister initiated legal action against the NSW independent MP concerning comments he made about the mining tax.
    Mr Oakeshott has been threatened legally by the Minister for Resources and Energy, Martin Ferguson, after comments Mr Oakeshott made to The Sydney Morning Herald last week after it was revealed the mining tax would make next to no revenue in its first three months.
    Mr Oakeshott, whose support is vital to keeping Labor in power and Mr Ferguson in his job, has reacted angrily to the legal letter, which he received on Thursday, describing it as ”stupid”….
    The legal threat came as broader tensions emerged between the government and the two key independents, Mr Oakeshott and Tony Windsor.
    On Thursday, they met with the Prime Minister, Julia Gillard, and the Treasurer, Wayne Swan, urging them to stop rushing legislation and playing politics with key policies, while assuming the independents would be supportive. They told the government it risked losing their vote on savings measures in the midyear budget update, as well as broader polices including the newly revised Murray-Darling Basin Plan.

    The three Amigos must be wishing now they’d said hasta la vista to Gillard back in 2010…

  110. I see that the government has borrowed another $2B this week.

    http://www.aofm.gov.au/default.asp?NavID=22

    I predict that Labor will call an election for March. The reasoning? By March Labor would have reached the debt ceiling and won’t be able to borrow more and waste. At least a $10B deficit. Talk about trashing our finances before they are kicked out. Mission accomplished!

  111. Suspect not tree. Just voicing an opinion that the government is producing too much legislation and they cannot keep up.

    Just shows that the Idenpendents that support the PM are not puppets on a string, belonging to Labor.

    Have not heard any say they are disappointed in choosing Labor.

    Have seen comments, that they have made the right decision and glad that they did not go with Abbott. That was even voiced by Mr. Wilkie.

    It points out that independent’s take their role seriously and give each piece of leglisation the attention it deserves.

    Unlike the Opposition that does not bother. Sometimes I wonder if Mr. Abbott takes any interest in the daily running of parliament except for his daily stunts.

    What it proves, this is and minority government that governments with the support of the Independents and Greens. It is not a coalition government. It is not a Labor/Green government..

    This week it has even had support from members of Abbott’s own team.

    Would not rub those hands in glee yet.

  112. “Have not heard any say they are disappointed in choosing Labor.”

    Not whispering the right circles CU! Put the ear to the ground around unionists and hear the rumblings…

    “Have seen comments, that they have made the right decision and glad that they did not go with Abbott. That was even voiced by Mr. Wilkie.”

    Bet you haven’t seen too many lately!

    Incidentally, more charges have been laid against Williamson…..

  113. What did we have from Mr. Abbott yesterday.

    He is going to rescind the MRRT and CEF.

    By cutting the so called a carbon tax, he will save trillions in the next 47 years. Now how could this be true. Yes, it goes up, or is expected to go up each year. Now I thought, that’s the reason for this is because as the use of burning fossil decreases, there is a need to increase the pressure. Noe I might be stupid, but one would expect very little burning of fossil fuel by 2050, they’re having little effect on any economy.

    It is said, and I believe so, renewal power production will be cheaper that fossil fuel in the long term. It is the switch over and establishing the regime that is expensive.

    So where is the saving there. In the short run, we will not have the money from CEF that is finding m,any worthwhile schemes for the voter now.

    So Mr. Abbott will take as much money from the budget, as he adds to it, by the removal of the CEF.

    Now to the MRRT. We have found out recently, this tax on super taxes does not behave as Abbott says.

    It has shown that it is a tax on super profits, No less, no more,

    It only comes into play when miners are receiving record prices, It is designed to spread some of these profits among the stakeholders, of those who own the ore within the grounds, the people of Australia. It only applies to a small number of miners, at any time. At the most, it will only ever contribute no more that 1% of budget receipts.

    So, we see that Mr. Abbott is willing to trash the budget, rescind good policies for little or no gain. In fact will put the economy in danger, adding to the costs of companies. Promising them years of insecurity.

    Next, Mr. Abbott then says, he is not promising anything, and if he does, it may have to be postponed.

    He is promising to pay department heads for doing their job. Surely every department now, is required to look at what goes on in their department, and to find cheaper ways of doing it.

    We have had years of Labor, culling the department for savings, including the Defence Department.

    Senator Wong said, in a speech in the same forum on Friday, that it is a furthy that there are the savings to be g\found, that Abbott is quoting, to meet the needs of the budget.

    To sum it up. Mr Abbott is promising to rescind Labor’s legislation that will lead to more expense. He is promising nothing in return,

    He has a let out cause, in establishing budget audit team, which we know from the actions of recent state premiers are a front to declare the country broke. Not that they will use normal accountancy methods.

    Mr. Abbott will not put any policy into the new budget honesty office that was established for this purpose.

    He is simply a con man, is attempting to con the nation. What is sadder, he believes he can do it.

    He promises little and has a let out the cause for the little he does,

    He uses motherhood statements, such as he will cut the waste.

    The truth is, in my opinion, he will be creating more waste.

    One cannot demolish with paying a cost. Any one clearing away an old house, to build a new, will know this is so.

    As I say, and believe it to be true, labor Builds, Liberals demolish.

    Always have done so.

    Whether it is the Opera House, Harbour Bridge, or providing all our schools with halls and many other needed infrastructure.

  114. WARNING: Don’t click on the URL in that previous message unless you’ve got an anti-virus program that will block it

    I use the free Avast

  115. Well, Warren Mundine is disappointed but let’s just dismiss the blackfella as sour grapes because he put his hand up to help but that failure, Carr got the nod.

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/sick-at-heart-why-a-disillusioned-warren-mundine-quit-the-labor-party/story-fn59niix-1226509539543

    He makes a very valid point that the Libs have two Aborigines in the Parliament and in the long history of Labor, none? Surely, the affirmative action requiring a certain quoto of women be elected, regardless if they are the best to represent in their electorate, why can Labor at least have a token Aborigine?

    Warren would have not been a ‘token’ as he is more talented than most of the Labor front bench. He leaves the Emily’s List shrews for dead.

  116. “”Why did not the Prime Minister herself report the fraud involving the Australian Workers Union Workplace Reform Associati:

    Simple, and has been said many times. It was investigated by the police at the time. Yes, that is how the PM found out about the alleged fraud, More, it was investigated by the police. They did not find any evidence that the PM was involved.

    It does not matter how many pages you write, or how often you say it, the matter is over and dead. You simply cannot bring it back to life, unless you find new evidence. That has not occurred.

  117. Did you know scaper, that the US hasn’t paid off its debt from World War II and that it’s not a problem? ;)

    Did you also know that government debt is required to keep our markets healthy? Ask Mr Costello – he tried to completely pay off our debt but those who actually understand how such things work, fortunately stopped him…

  118. And rack up another Howard era failure. (behind paywall)

    Howard-era baby payments failed to do the job intended

    As time marches on more and more of Howard’s policies, what few of them in over a decade there were, are proving to be failures.

    And Abbott’s main policy framework in a desert of empty policies, to bring back Howard era policies, the ones that are now proven to be failures.

  119. CU

    “Simple, and has been said many times. It was investigated by the police at the time. Yes, that is how the PM found out about the alleged fraud, More, it was investigated by the police. They did not find any evidence that the PM was involved.”

    If you had been following it closely you would realise that the original police investigation was hindered by a number of issues, all of which involved less than honest disclosure by several people including your PM.

    The tentacles of corruption spread well beyond the AWU and slush funds. You can look forward to much more on this next week,

  120. I’m quite aware how the system works, thank you. You talk of Costello trying to pay down all of the AOFM issues is quite alarming, if indeed that was the case but our debt was lowest in 2008 under Swan, circa $28B if my memory is correct.

    I’ve been watching the Bond and Note issues for years. Standard practice in the past has been the RBA taking up a share (around the 40% mark) of the tenders as an interest hedge but that all pretty much ceased when Labor got hold of the credit card. I wonder why the RBA has ceased participation. Here is a clue.

    http://www.rba.gov.au/statistics/frequency/stmt-liabilities-assets.html

    Debt is not bad if utilised to increase GDP but this government is booking it up to pay for the groceries and grog.

  121. “Looks like you’ve picked up a virus on Twitter CU”

    hahahaha

    Catching a tweetie virus is akin to picking up a few fleas scratching around with birds of a feather….

  122. “Incidentally, more charges have been laid against Williamson…..”

    Any to do with Mt. Thomson. Most I believe is with his wife business.

    It appears some of the Queensland government members could be in trouble as well. Is Abbott guilt by association.

    By the way tree, it is the practice here to put up the good and bad, about all we discuss, whether good or bad.

    I think you maybe behind the time, unless the charges have been laid in the last few hours. If so, please give us the link, as many here are interested. Interested in both sides of any story.

  123. Is Gillard capable of answering any questions???

    Gillard has not addressed Bishop’s questions in the past so technically Gillard has misled the House.

  124. ““Simple, and has been said many times”

    ….and investigated many times over the last, what must be nearly 18 years.

    We know the media has had a team of more that 5 on the matter over the last year or so. I assume there is not a document that has not been perused. Now that seems to be relying on the views of a man, that is a proven liar, and a little more than dishonest.

    There are still two full time , engaged in this quest.

  125. “AUSTRALIA needs to prepare for the next mining boom by giving tax breaks to start-up resources companies, the head of the nation’s stock exchange says.
    Australian Securities Exchange (ASX) chief executive Elmer Funke Kupper wants the Federal Government to spend $150 million a year on an exploration tax credit scheme.

    He argued this would allow resources start-ups to share their losses with investors rather than having them wait up to seven years for a mine to start operating.

    “Any projects that are starting to become marginal may not get up so this is about the next mining boom,” Mr Kupper said on the sidelines of the Queensland Exploration Breakfast in Brisbane. “I’m more thinking seven years from now.”

    But Mr Kupper accepted that the Federal Government’s plan to deliver a budget surplus in 2013 would make it harder to convince Treasury.

    Read more: http://www.news.com.au/business/markets/asx-chief-abandons-push-for-6pm-close/story-e6frfm30-1226509056805#ixzz2B7UL0w7e

    Maybe it will be possible to collect extra tax on super profits in the future. At least the legislation will be in place to do so. That is if Mr. Abbott does not achieve his obsession to become PM.

  126. Instead of being obsessed with history, as some seem to be, maybe we should be looking to the future.

    The place to start, is another policy that did not deliver as Mr. Costello and Mr. Howard promised.

    I would start with an intensive review of the GST. Unless we do, we will end up with a tinkering around the edges, with it covering more, and putting the rate up.

    One needs to remember this is a regressive tax, and being so, falls harder on the lower income earner. There are better ways, that ensures the that the burden falls on those who can afford to pay.

    THE former premier hand-picked to review the carve-up of the GST has warned the tax is failing to deliver the revenue expected of it and has called for a national debate about its rate and scope.

    The GST review, led by Nick Greiner, was delivered to Wayne Swan yesterday and says the tax is becoming an unstable source of revenue for the states.

    The review, which was called by the Treasurer in March following complaints by Western Australia about the fairness of the system for dividing the GST pool, was not designed to look at the rate of the tax or what it covered.

    The former NSW Liberal leader said yesterday they were “a much more important issue” and the distribution of the GST was a “second-order issue”.

    “It’s not in our terms of reference but the report does deal with the size and stability of the (GST) pool as well as its distribution, although I don’t know that the Prime Minister or the Treasurer, who asked us to go do it, really wanted us to go there,” Mr Greiner told the Securing Australia’s Future conference sponsored by The Australian and Melbourne University.

    Mr Greiner said that although the distribution of the GST was important to state treasurers, it did not go to the heart of the fiscal challenge they faced. “The overwhelming problem is that the size of the GST isn’t growing the way it was intended to and not growing anything like the growth in health expenditure,” he said.

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/gst-key-to-tax-reform-says-nick-greiner/story-fn59niix-1226509536028

  127. Funny how you lot were going orgasmic over Abbott allegedly punching a wall over thirty years ago but Gillard just about breaking every rule as a solicitor is an old history.

    If one was entirely innocent one would not evade answering the questions. More will be coming out next week. I see that Rudd and others will be called to another enquiry of the cover up of the Aboriginal girl that was pack raped at the Wacol childrens detention centre.

    I wonder if the shredders would have been in action if she was white?

  128. “Instead of being obsessed with history, as some seem to be, maybe we should be looking to the future,.

    The place to start, is another policy that did not deliver as Mr. Costello and Mr. Howard promised.

    I would start with an intensive review of the GST. Unless we do, we will end up with a tinkering around the edges, with it covering more, and putting the rate up.”

    How is the GST not delivering? What did Howard promise that has not been delivered? Don’t get too obsessed with history now CU, or let others think that you yourself might “the font of all knowledge”

    A quick comparison…NZ 15%, China 17% and Denmark 24%. Here in Australia the GST revenue is divided amongst the States. How it has been spent reflects largely on the fact that until recently Labor was managing State’s expenditure and we all know where that got them don’t we?

  129. I would like to point out, that most of us rely on debt to improve our financial proposition. This is true also in government and business.

    Debt is necessary for good governance. What is important when it comes to debt, is the ability to service it.

    Governments use debt to even out the ebbs and flows of the capitalist system. Even Costello found this out.

    What is important to us all, is how this debt is used. Now that is not too hard is it.

    I expect to be once again to be attacked by our all knowing visitors, as being naive, not knowing anything, or just plain silly.

    There, I have said it for you.

    Now maybe you can explain why all debt is wrong, in the capitalist system, which I assume relies on debt.

    ….the review also found “to maintain a liquid and efficient bond market that supports the three and 10-year futures market and the requirements of the new global bank liquidity standards, the panel agreed that the CGS market should be maintained around its current size — that is, around 12 to 14 per cent of GDP over time.”

    The critical aspect of this is the 12 to 14 per cent of GDP benchmark.

    This suggests that as the economy grows, so too will the amount of CGS on issue. In other words, and going back to the starting point, the amount of government gross debt in dollar terms will rise forever.

    One issue that the Gillard government has not yet addressed is what to do with the money it raises from the bond market, that it clearly wont need as the budget returns to surplus.

    The Howard Government pumped its excess and unneeded cash into the Future Fund. The Gillard government may well follow that path as the medium-term surpluses roll in………

    http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/Swan-Gillard-Costello-government-debt-bond-market–pd20121102-ZMQRM?OpenDocument&emcontent_spectators

  130. CU

    Posting stuff again that reinforces your views? This comment on the Stephen Koukoulas piece says it all for me!

    “I have read some pretty childish views on economics in my long life, but this has to be near the top (Why government debt must grow “, November 2). Government is an extension of me and you. For anyone to advocate that borrowing money for no good reason, except to pay interest on my behalf is ludicrous. Sure, not all debt is bad, [business opportunity, mortgages etc] as long as it is productive, but nearly all Government debt is”

  131. As I said, criticism, no explanation why it is wrong. Well, there is nothing new in that.

    A new one, childish views.

    Oh, what must it be like, to be so knowing.

    I would should hate to think what would happen to our economy, if all decided debt was bad.

    Yes, they are my views.

    This might surprise you, but what you write, are no more than your views, and carries no more weight.

    The fact that you spend so much time and effort challenging me, leads to me to believe I might just be hitting the spot, as far as you are concerned..

    Yes, I am talking in very simple terms. Seems to be necessary to get few to some, who insist on saying the same thing, over and over and over.

    Debt is necessary for the economy to work on all levels.

    Our economy will collapse without debt.

    Is that simple enough.

    Mr. Abbott believes in debt. Did he not borrow $900.00 when his income fell, so he could continue to live in the comfort he had become addicted to.

  132. Funny how you lot were going orgasmic over Abbott allegedly punching a wall over thirty years ago but Gillard just about breaking every rule as a solicitor is an old history.

    Bacchus sent me a link once on what John Howards father may or may not have done in 1927.

  133. CU

    “The fact that you spend so much time and effort challenging me, leads to me to believe I might just be hitting the spot, as far as you are concerned”

    Not correct, I just love a challenge and have a little time on my hands between projects.

    “Our economy will collapse without debt”

    Prove it to me please.

    If you has written that economies throughout the world today depend on debt I might just have agreed with you to a point. For me it comes down to the big bankers and their manipulations that bring about the boom bust cycles when ordinary folk get fleeced while they make money on the way down and on the way back. In my circle are conspiracy theorists who take this to a whole new level. They consider people like you and me to be useful idiots who perpetuate our own downfall through failing to grasp the truth.

    One thing is certain, when you look at the numbers and the interest on the loans, some one is making an awful lot of money and THEIR future depends on perpetuating the debt.

    Now please prove to me that our economy will collapse without debt!

  134. Comments from the Business Council and Australian Industry Group, published yesterday, look like a major headache for Tony Abbott.

    Both groups, neither of which is a fan of big government, nonetheless called on the the Gillard government to rethink its expenditure cutting spree.

    Fairfax papers report the BCA’s Jennifer Westcott as saying “our members are telling us that the economy could well be softer than Treasury has projected, and in these circumstances it would be reasonable to revisit the need to return to surplus in 2012-13″ and AiG’s Innes Willox as saying cuts were “already very substantial and we must now be getting close to the point where it could be self-defeating and fiscal policy could excessively slow the economy and, ironically, impede the recovery of tax revenues”.

    That’s right, keep spending at the current level, or risk seriously damaging the already-softening economy.

    For Treasurer Wayne Swan and finance minister Penny Wong, that’s a pretty easy request to meet – neither wants to cut spending any harder than they already did in last week’s MYEFO statement.

    The government copped plenty of flak for its cuts to the baby bonus and tertiary education funding, and plenty of opprobrium for demanding businesses pay their tax bills monthly instead of quarterly…………..

    http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/BCA-AiG-Tony-Abbott-Gillard-government-pd20121101-ZLUN2?OpenDocument&emcontent_Burgess

    Not exactly from left wing sing bats.

  135. Could it be that Swan and Gillard are playing games with Abbott. I suspect so, and as usual he is acting in a predictable way.

    One always knows what Abbott has to say, long before he opens his gob, no better say mouth.

    Under-promising and over-delivering looks more likely. By refusing to guarantee a surplus, Swan appears to be drawing out an attack from the opposition benches so that he can rub coalition noses in it when the tiny surplus is, in fact, achieved.

    http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/BCA-AiG-Tony-Abbott-Gillard-government-pd20121101-ZLUN2?OpenDocument&emcontent_Burgess

  136. More reality for those who believe this government is damned.

    …….So Tony Abbott is taking something of a hiding in the media for a string of predictions he made about prices rises that have not only failed to materialise, but in many cases have gone the other way. Greg Combet has listed a string of household costs that have fallen – milk, seafood, breakfast cereal, and Barnaby Joyce’s hyperbolic ‘$100 lamb roast’ prediction. They’re all slightly cheaper now than before the carbon tax came in. …..

    http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/BCA-AiG-Tony-Abbott-Gillard-government-pd20121101-ZLUN2?OpenDocument&emcontent_Burgess

  137. OK scaper, I’ll play your silly game. What does the weekly RBA statement of liabilities and assets have to do with RBA holdings of CGS?

  138. Sorry for so much, but this article says much. Remember we are not Greece.

    The danger of overly austere budgets is clearly set out in a chart published yesterday by Britain’s Telegraph newspaper, based on research by the National Institute for Economic and Social Research (Niesr) – see it here.

    ………..Niesr’s research shows that when a national economy has cut rates effectively to zero, and exhausted the possibility of expanding money supply through quantitative easing, there is nothing left to cushion the blow of public spending cuts. It says that Greece’s budget slashing has killed off economic activity, and therefore tax revenue, to such an extent that it has increased the nation’s debt to GDP ratio by 32.4 percentage points……..

    http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/BCA-AiG-Tony-Abbott-Gillard-government-pd20121101-ZLUN2?OpenDocument&emcontent_Burgess

  139. Here trollman – perhaps you’d better have a read of this from the RBA :roll:

    http://www.rba.gov.au/publications/bulletin/2012/sep/6.html

    Liquid assets with low credit and market risk have a number of uses in financial markets, such as providing collateral against short-term funding or credit exposures that arise between counterparties to financial transactions. This article examines the existing sources of demand for Australian dollar-denominated liquid assets. Given relatively low levels of government debt in Australia, demand for these assets has been increasing relative to supply for some time. A further increase in demand arising from regulatory changes designed to improve the management of liquidity risk and counterparty credit risk will accentuate this trend.

    …institutions in the Australian financial system demand HQLA for a variety of purposes and that there will be a significant increase in demand for such assets. For a given currency, the assets that tend to be most liquid in conditions of financial stress, after cash and cash-like assets, are domestic government securities. This arises because the public sector is generally more likely than private sector participants to maintain its creditworthiness due to its unique ability to tax the population and/or expand the money supply. Hence the markets for government securities are most likely to continue to function without significant loss of value. Indeed, it is common for the price of government securities to increase relative to other financial asset prices in these conditions because of their ability to maintain their value.

    At present there is around $240 billion outstanding in CGS, representing around 17 per cent of GDP and around 9 per cent of bank assets (Graph 2). The semi-government bond market is similar in size.

    The level of CGS outstanding fell to as low as 4 per cent of GDP in 2008, primarily as a result of successive fiscal surpluses and a policy of maintaining the stock of nominal bonds at around $50 billion, which in 2003 was judged to be consistent with a liquid CGS market. In combination with the increase in demand from offshore investors, these trends led to a significant fall in the stock of CGS available for other uses such as collateral and to meet regulatory requirements.

    In response, the Australian Government announced that it would expand the amount outstanding of CGS to $75 billion in May 2008. The fiscal response to the global financial crisis subsequently led to an increase in the stock of CGS to around 17 per cent of GDP at present. While this is projected to decline in coming years, the government has committed to issuing sufficient CGS to maintain a liquid market, which has been assessed to be in a range of between 12 and 14 per cent of GDP (Australian Government 2011).

    Note the decision in 2003 of “maintaining the stock of nominal bonds at around $50 billion.” This was when Costello was toying with the idea of paying off all government debt – wisdom prevailed then and is being further refined, in combination with the major players, at the moment – hence the 12 -> 14% of GDP target for CGS.

    And yes, as Mr Koukoulas says, this means that CGS on issue (or debt) will forever increase, and for good reason…

  140. Is Abbott up to one solution available.. I do not believe so, as he has done an excellent job of selling all debt is bad.

    ….In short, team-Abbott is going to have to do some rapid rethinking of its plans before an election is called. Most sources I have spoken to around parliament, on both sides of politics, put the election on one of two weekends next September – nearly all agreeing that a snap House-of-Reps-only election in March would only be considered in a moment of extreme desperation.

    So there is time for the coalition to work out how to massage the revenue side of the federal budget to bring it into balance.

    Simply slashing public spending no longer looks like an option.

    http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/BCA-AiG-Tony-Abbott-Gillard-government-pd20121101-ZLUN2?OpenDocument&emcontent_Burgess

    To our visiting genius, explain why this article has everything wrong???

    Facts not slagging and slurring the author of the article.

  141. Bacchus sent me a link once on what John Howards father may or may not have done in 1927.

    From memory Neil, that was done facetiously in response to something you’d dragged up out of ancient history :roll:

  142. tree, that is sad that you have nothing else better to spend a great amount of your time on. It appears that you have no family or friends, when one looks at the amount of time your of time you spend here.

    Now it is true, I do not have many friends, and my family are not nearby, but I see them often.

    Yes, being alone I do have too much time to fill in.

    What is your excuse.

  143. Nope tree, I am not interested in proving anything to you.

    I got in first, you prove what I say is wrong or nonsense. That takes more than name calling or denigrating the writer.

    That is all you ever do. Put up dubious articles as fact, followed by name calling.

  144. How about debating the arguments put forward, not the person.

    That would be challenging. Yes there are many here that challenge my knowledge of economics. I welcome their comments every time, as they are out to educate, not to have gotcha moments, that mean little.

  145. From memory Neil, that was done facetiously in response to something you’d dragged up out of ancient history

    That is not my memory Bacchus. You were trying to trash John Howard by saying there is more to his family than what Howard had stated. You sent me a link to an article by David Marr

    It was an article by David Marr in the SMH on what Howard’s father may or may not have done in 1927.

  146. Yeah that’s it Bacchus. ALP supporters go back 30 years to try and trash Abbott, 85 years to try and trash Howard but do not want to know about what Gillard got up to just before she entered Parliament.

  147. Well, it is about more than debt, or what the PM might have or might not have done nearly 20 years ago.

    .

    ………….Former Treasury secretary Ken Henry warned in July that states were at risk from slowing GST growth and that the nation needed to adjust to higher consumption taxes, while former Board of Taxation chairman Dick Warburton has urged a debate on increasing the tax.

    Finance Minister Penny Wong said yesterday the government’s opposition to increasing the GST was well known. “The Treasurer has made very clear he’s ruled out changes to the base or the rate,” she told the conference.

    Senator Wong conceded the budget did face long-term structural problems, with the tax base getting narrower as the ageing reduced the share of the population in the workforce.

    “Without change and on current settings these factors will lead to a sustained period of fiscal imbalance,” she said.

    “This will require more than just policy. It will also require the polity to face up to these facts.”,

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/gst-key-to-tax-reform-says-nick-greiner/story-fn59niix-1226509536028

    The PM has ruled out any increase to the GST rate or widening the base. The PM said she asked for views on how the GST is to be distributed, and that is what she will be dealing with,

  148. Yep. Liberals true to past actions Cut PS and their conditions. That solves all.

    Opposition finance spokesman Andrew Robb said that if successful at the next election, the Coalition’s first priority would be removing the carbon and mining taxes. However, it would prepare a white paper on tax reform in its first term of office to take to the 2016 election. He said reform should be comprehensive, not a piece-meal change to a single tax such as GST.

    Tony Abbott recently said the Coalition had no plans to change the GST – “none whatsoever”. Mr Greiner said there needed to be a debate involving all levels of government about the scope of government and the preparedness of the community to pay for the services it delivered.

    He said state governments had no choice but to cut public servants if they wanted to make savings, because that is where 80 per cent of their spending was.

    Mr Greiner said at it was naive to imagine that the funds raised by an increase in the GST could simply be directed to lowering other taxes. He said when the GST was eventually increased, funds would be directed to expenditure and to delivering compensation.

    Reserve Bank board member and Keating government adviser John Edwards said he did not believe that raising the GST rate and extending it to food, education and health, and using it to lower the company and personal income tax rates, was politically feasible. “In fact, there is very little revenue to be gained in the net sense from health and education, which are very largely funded by government,” Dr Edwards said.

    “What you are really suggesting … is we are going to increase the price of fresh food by 10 per cent and we are going to give the proceeds to a reduction in corporate tax and to marginal personal rates. Politically, that has nothing going for it. It has no chance of being adopted by any political party.”

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/gst-key-to-tax-reform-says-nick-greiner/story-fn59niix-1226509536028

  149. but do not want to know about what Gillard got up to just before she entered Parliament.

    The problem is Neil, the right-whingers aren’t presenting ANY new facts – just more smear & innuendo, from dubious sources (like Erica & Georgie in other matters for eg.). If all you’ve got is smear & innuendo, then you’ve got nothing :roll:

  150. “Now please prove to me that our economy will collapse without debt!”Now please prove to me that our economy will collapse without debt!”

    Wonder how the financial world would cope for starters. Would we still have a building industry. Would those roads get built.

    Noticed that many, including Griener are suggesting we should move back to Commonwealth Bonds, which Costello despised.

    I believe that debt, or as some might see it, lending money is an important part of our economy.

  151. tree, it appears that NSW does not have a debt problem, that the state is in surplus. The problem is that the Libs just cannot add up. Funny that

    Same goes for Queensland, if one follows normal accountancy methods. Funny that.

  152. Miglo, tree must be doing it tough. Look at all the free time he has, to challenge us on this site. Things must be really bad.

  153. Pyne once again caught out lying. What is new.

    …..on national radio that the National Broadband Network has not connected any customers at speeds of 100Mbps, despite the fact that in fact, 44 percent of NBN customers connected so far to the project’s fibre infrastructure have taken up such speeds.

    In an interview this week broadcast on Triple J’s Hack program (the audio is available online in MP3 format; Pyne’s comments are around the six minute mark), Pyne was asked to respond to a recent suggestion by Prime Minister Julia Gillard that the delivery of the Labor Federal Government’s flagship National Broadband Network infrastructure would make it easier for teachers to deliver instruction in Asian languages to students through technologies such as videoconferencing.

    Pyne responded: “The National Broadband Network is not up and running. They have connected six and a half thousand households in three years under the National Broadband Network, and not one household or school has been connected at 100 megabits per second, which was the promise.”

    However, unfortunately Pyne’s claim regarding the lack of 100Mbps connections on the NBN is demonstratably false. NBN Co’s corporate plan published in December 2010 previously predicted that in the early years of its fibre rollout, the majority (52%) of customers who signed up for its fibre services would have picked the entry level speed tier it’s offering — a 12Mbps service which is slower even than current theoretical ADSL2+ speeds. The remainder were to be split largely between the next speed tranches of 25Mbps (17%) ad 50Mbps (23%), with only a small number (8%) taking the highest speed 100Mbps plans.

    However, NBN Co chief executive Mike Quigley told a Senate Committee several months ago that, when it came to the actual uptake experienced by NBN Co in the real world so far, this predicted trend had been somewhat inverted. “Overall, 38 percent of active services on our fibre network have been on the fastest speed tier, which is 100Mbps down,” he said. “Only 16 percent of the active services on our fibre network are for the entry-level speed tier of 12Mbps.”

    In a new Senate Estimates hearing ……

    http://delimiter.com.au/2012/10/31/nobody-has-connected-to-nbn-at-100mbps-claims-christopher-pyne/

  154. More lies.

    Pyne’s comments come as a number of senior members of the Coalition continue to make demonstratably inaccurate claims with respect to the NBN in the media. For example, last week Shadow Treasurer Joe Hockey repeated several times an inaccurate claim that the NBN’s funding could be treated as an expense in the Federal Budget, despite the fact that accounting standards require it to be treated as a capital investment.

    Hockey’s comments come as the latest in a long line of inaccurate and misleading statements the Shadow Treasurer has made about the NBN project. Earlier this month, for example, Hockey claimed the National Broadband Network could cost as much as $100 billion to build, despite the company’s own estimates showing that it will require around $37 billion of capital injection from the Government and eventually make a return, paying back the investment with some profit on top. In June, in another example, Hockey inaccurately claimed that 4G mobile broadband had the potential to be “far superior” to the fibre technology of the NBN.

    Similarly, several months ago, speaking on Channel Ten’s Meet the Press program, Nationals Leader Warren Truss made a number of major factually inaccurate statements about the project, as detailed in this article by Delimiter at the time. In addition, Truss had previously made a number of inaccurate statements about the NBN over the past several months.

    http://delimiter.com.au/2012/10/31/nobody-has-connected-to-nbn-at-100mbps-claims-christopher-pyne/

  155. n mid-May, Opposition Leader Tony Abbott misrepresented the cost of connecting to the NBN, in comments which the Government claimed represented a deliberate attempt to mislead the Australian public on the issue. Turnbull similarly made a number of factually incorrect statements on the NBN throughout March, and in January Abbott got quite a few facts about the NBN wrong in a radio interview.

    opinion/analysis
    Christopher Pyne should retract his comment that no users have connected to the NBN at speeds of 100Mbps. They are simply untrue; this is not an opinion, it is a fact. The fact that the Shadow Education Minister made this statement at all either illustrates that he does not understand the NBN rollout well; or that he is willing to grossly misrepresent the project in public. Either is not a great outcome for the Australian public.

    http://delimiter.com.au/2012/10/31/nobody-has-connected-to-nbn-at-100mbps-claims-christopher-pyne/

  156. CU
    which is worse, the fact that Pyne, Hockey,Abbott, Turnbull are liars (and or do not understand the NBN)

    OR

    that the msm has so little understanding of the NBN that they do not challenge these false statements.

  157. If they do not understand, that is worst.

    Mr. Turnbull does. He was in the industry early back in the 1990’s at least. He is investing in similar companies in at least two European countries..

    No, they will say whatever it takes, no matter how untrue, or the damage they cause.

  158. The problem is that the Libs just cannot add up.

    Because they insist on using Sloppy’s calculator, CU.

    …..tree must be doing it tough. Look at all the free time he has, to challenge us on this site.

    Do you think he’s been lopped, CU?

  159. “Do you think he’s been lopped, CU?”

    Do not know, really do not care.

    What I do wonder why the normal rules, civil niceties do not apply on the net, as well as in every day life.

    It is not tolerated in civilized society.

    Maybe because they know they would not get away with such rudeness and personal put downs.

    They would be held to account by family, neighbors and work buddies. Told to piss off.

    It is amazing how they believe they have the right to say anything, and not be sent on their way. In the real world, this attitude would not be tolerated. Not if one wanted to keep friends and be on good terms with one’s work mates.

    Maybe I am just too old, and that manners no longer counts.

  160. Not lopped, not doing it tough and certainly not leaving here anytime soon.

    It’s been suggested that Gillard misled Parliament when she answered Julie Bishop with “This question has been asked in the past. I refer the Deputy Leader of the Opposition to when I dealt with all of these issues extensively on the public record. By the time the matters she refers to came to my attention they were already the subject of inquiry and investigation”

    I expect that much more will be made of this in the coming days.

  161. Hey whisperers, just thought I would add my latest musings to the mix.

    Tony Abbott, the libs and the truth. :roll:

    When Tony Abbott.. and his Libs
    Say Julia Gillard.. lies
    They are showing.. their hypocrisy
    As they spout.. THEIR porky.. pies
    About a price.. on carbon… that they’ve called
    The PM’s.. toxic tax
    While dismissing.. all the experts
    And ignoring.. all the facts

    Claiming massive rises… in the price
    Of everything… we buy
    But he’s contradicted.. by the facts
    And his arguments.. just won’t fly
    And his cohorts think… that lies become truth
    If they’re often enough.. repeated
    But it’s their credibility.. not the ALP
    That.. by their lies.. will be defeated

    The lies they’ve told.. are big and bold
    Seeking to.. rewrite…. History
    For the sake of Abbotts.. grand ambition
    Based on inherent… stupidity
    Saying.. poor Wyalla’s.. gunna go
    She’ll be wiped.. right off.. the map
    Proving yet again… the man’s insane
    And full of naught.. but crap

    And his wrecking ball.. had a nasty fall
    Landing squarely… on his toe
    After missing… the.. economy
    And rolling…. sloppy Joe
    Who was never good with figures
    But a wrecking ball…is he
    Spreading lies.. and misinformation
    about the oz economy

    Then there’s the tech head.. Malcolm Turnbull
    Spreading… more of Abbotts lies
    Claiming.. fibre to the node.. is the way for us
    Proving… on him…. there are no flies
    As when it comes… to his own.. investments
    Fibre to the home.. is the way to go
    But when it comes to giving us… the best
    The Abbott just says… NO

    And the rest of Abbotts mendacious mates
    Make up…. his motley crew
    Of sloganeers and… farting heads
    They’re dishonest through and through
    With his deputy.. the Bishop
    Searching constantly… for proof
    That her sour looks… are justified
    Cos she’s been.. violated… by the truth

    And he plots and schemes to fulfil his dreams
    Of his perfect… Liberal state
    Based on Howards.. worn out policies
    His mentor… and his mate
    But the world’s moved on.. without him
    And the Liberals… fractured parts
    Leaving a monstrous policy vacuum
    And the Abbotts stale… brain farts

    He’ll promise us… a banquet
    But all that’s on…. his plate
    Is his pugilistic nature…
    And his body… builders.. gait
    With his numbers falling weekly
    And his credibility… shot
    And the murmurings of descent
    Amongst.. the lying.. Liberal.. lot

    But the right wing.. power brokers
    Still think Abbott… is their man
    Pushing spin and propaganda
    Just because… the bastards can
    But he’s not a leaders… arsehole
    He is just… a right wing.. thug
    With the body… of an old.. athlete
    And the brainpower… of a slug

    And despite support from… billionaires
    And mates… like Alan… Jones
    The Abbotts time… is nearly done
    With no meat.. left…… only bones
    And the history books will tell the tale
    Of an election…. his to take
    But he lost… because.. all… the people saw
    Was a…. monumental…. fake :evil: :lol:

    Cheers :grin: :lol: :roll:: :lol:

  162. Catching up @ 3:37 am

    In the Grattan piece you link to she states the lie that was exposed at the time of Abbott bringing down Rudd. At least she says he helped bring down Rudd, whereas it was Howard who said it was Abbott who bought down Rudd. That was quickly exposed as the Howard lie it was.

    Rudd and a Labor faction bought down Rudd.

  163. Wise words from Nikki savva, i know oxymoron.

    “when you go digging for dirt you have to be careful with what you dig up”
    Nikki of course was referring to slater gordon and possibly more needs to be found , however she was cautious on this front after observing just what was revealed by the godwin Grech emails.

  164. And you know at least one other name he goes under.

    Four words in a single paragraph and finally el gordo conveys a lot with brevity.

  165. I’ll agree with el gordo on this one. Even that other chappy is smarter than Trollman – he’s some sort of glorified accountant, while Trollman has no idea at all of economics…

  166. Well Abbott must be correct when he made a comment about that dubious stunt at the Uni. He said young Uni students are the same as in his day. Shame that the same appears to be for some colleges.

    “JETS” said everything. It happens tpo be Pyne’s favorite word. Hope it is not the same across our upmarket schools.

  167. Good pickup Cu. I had forgotten that Abbott had said students were the same today as they were in his day.

    Says a lot if his old college is a case in point.

  168. Opposition Leader Tony Abbott has a whole raft of policies to roll out that will be fully costed, his deputy leader Julie Bishop says.

    So they’ve finally chosen a catering company? Do you think Sloppy’s lent them his eleventy calculator?

    Mind you, I bet you’ll need an electron microscope to see these “policies”.

    Sue @10.13am, what a surprise to find the GOP at the bottom of that particular sludge heap.

  169. There is someting in this statement I have misunderstood:

    “Mr Baird yesterday refused to reveal which agencies had made the 37 errors in the budget which had helped lead to the large discrepancies.

    In relation to the latest error in the debt level, a spokesman said: “Debt … is updated to market interest rates each financial year. The 2 per cent fall in interest rates over the past year contributed to the increase in overall debt.

    Read more: http://www.news.com.au/money/more-budget-blues-for-nsw-treasurer-mike-baird/story-e6frfmci-1226508671006#ixzz2BDvSW2Fa

  170. Just watching the Midwife. The old nun came out with, dogs look up at us, cats look down but pigs treat us as equals.

    Never heard that before.

  171. Jane
    there are 13 electoral votes in Viginia, so if the election comes down to that type of margin………lawyers at the ready.

  172. Sue, I imagine Obama has already got them on standby for just such an occasion.

    Has anyone heard or seen how the POTUS election is going? One of the links has a sidebar saying Obama’s ahead atm.

  173. The Almost Man; A Source of Amusement

    The Almost Man is apt.

    Might be a good thread. Table all the almosts of Abbott’s less than stellar career. Almost a uni president but beaten by a woman, almost a convicted vandal but for his father’s influence and so on, including his almost port folios he half arsed.

  174. That article from Grattan is certainly just a piece more appropriate to Trivia Time..goodness, it’s the same as rapping little Tones over the knuckles with a fluffy slipper. :roll:

    From the article,

    We reckon a lot of the problem is that you don’t look sufficiently sunny or substantial.

    So Michelle that’s it? That’s the sum total of your critique on Tony Abbott…

    Sunny? Tony looks sunny enough in all the mega photo ops that the MSM have so generously provided for him.

    Michelle, why not tackle the issue of “substantial”…

  175. Almost a father as a young man. Almost a priest. Almost a journalist. Almost a successful political aid. Let Hewson go down the drain, when in this position.

    Did succeed in jailing Ms. Hanson. Did succeed in getting the mother of what he thought was his baby to adopt it out, letting him off the hook.

  176. The thing with Rudd was that the only time he stridently and passionately stood up for the things he’d achieved like the insulation scheme, stimulus and his greatest achievement trades training in schools, was in his teary standing down speech.

  177. Sorry, I should have read the article first, before making a comment. Then great minds think alike.

    I will be attcked for that, but bugger, I will be attacked anyway. may as well give the trolls something to hook onto.

    Sadly, the life of Tony Abbott is likely to be remembered as a life of “almosts”. He was almost an unmarried father, almost a priest, almost a journalist, almost a Prime Minister.
    And, in the end, as a political joke.

    http://archiearchive.wordpress.com/2012/11/04/the-almost-man-a-source-of-amusement/

    May I add, just an opposition leader by one vote. Made sure he talked/tricked Hockey into standing, to split the vote. Handy that a couple were on sick leave when he made his run.

    Those pictures of watching both Hockey and Abbott, sneaking in and out of Mr. Howard’s resident at the time was amusing.

    After all, Abbott gave Mr. Hockey that he would withdraw, leaving the field open to him.

    Nearly got the numbers and seats to be PM. Just fell short of the finishing line.

    Could not be bothered negotiating, as he believed this government would fall over. Once again just missing out.

    I believe this will be the history of this man, The man that nearly got there.

    Even Ms. Hanson was later found innocent and let out of jail.

    As for the deputy, we have a lady that has been three times a bridesmaid. What comes next.

  178. Bachus

    “I’ll agree with el gordo on this one. Even that other chappy is smarter than Trollman – he’s some sort of glorified accountant, while Trollman has no idea at all of economics…”

    Made my day that one.. you really have no idea!

  179. Those pictures of watching both Hockey and Abbott, sneaking in and out of Mr. Howard’s resident at the time was amusing.

    After all, Abbott gave Mr. Hockey that he would withdraw, leaving the field open to him.

    Phoney Abbott said he would not contest the leadership if Sloppy Joe Hockey was also in the running.

    Sloppy did contest the leadership. Phoney did run against him.

    As usual, Phoney Tony lied.

  180. THE Coalition’s tax policies will cost Australian businesses $4.57 billion in their first full year of operation, according to the Commonwealth Treasury.
    Prepared as Treasury attempts to come to grips with a suite of Coalition policies yet to be announced, the analysis includes only those to which it has publicly committed. Excluded are policies with a negative but uncertain impact on business, such as winding back the recent increase in the employee tax-free threshold from $6000 to $18,200.
    The three policies identified by Treasury are the Coalition’s commitment to impose a 1.5 per cent tax levy on big firms to fund paid parental leave, its decision to axe instant asset writeoff and other tax breaks for small business funded from the carbon tax, and its decision to axe the ability for businesses to “carry back” losses and obtain refunds for tax already paid funded from the mining tax.
    The analysis excludes the benefit to some businesses from axing the carbon and mining taxes.
    Advertisement
    Treasury finds that businesses would lose $4.57 billion in the first full year the Coalition’s three commitments were operational, accumulating to $17.2 billion over four years.
    Its calculations suggest manufacturers would pay an extra $1.34 billion a year, retailers an extra $930 million and the construction sector an extra $860 million a year.
    Although business as a whole would benefit from the Coalition’s policies because of the removal of the $6.6 billion a year carbon tax and the $2 billion a year mining tax, the analysis suggests that outside of the few big companies paying those taxes the rest of Australian businesses would suffer……………………………………..

    Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/national/abbotts-46b-slug-to-business-20121104-28s8t.html#ixzz2BGdHveWN

  181. “Prepared as Treasury attempts to come to grips with a suite of Coalition policies yet to be announced, the analysis includes only those to which it has publicly committed”

    Waffle as only The Age can do. Think about it, any conclusions drawn after this statement will have no credibility whatsoever!

  182. So the bullies in the Grocon – CFMEU dispute appear to be Grocon. I wonder if the Premier will ask Grocon to pay for the police attendance?

  183. TS/S, that was a great poem. You’re a rare talent.

    And where have I been? I’ve been suffering with the virus from hell that I caught in America. I can’t even get out of bed, however, I forced myself out today.

    I haven’t been able to comment via any of my mobile devices as the site keeps crashing. It must have something to do with the WordPress theme I’m using, so I’ll have to experiment with a new one. Don’t be alarmed if the site keeps changing its look over the next few days while I fiddle around with it.

  184. Marius Benson was certainly giving Andrew Robb plenty of rope this morning on ABC 24, asking him what he thought of Labor’s prospects of achieving a surplus.

    And once again Robb put on display his appalling lack of understanding of economics repeating that old schoolboy howler “the government, like any household, has to learn to live within its means”.

    I can forgive the denizens of the front bar of my local pub confusing the operational realities of household vs government financing, but when one of the opposition’s key spokesmen on finance keeps coming up with this nonsense it’s a bit of a worry.

  185. Looks like the Liberal policies will take from small business and give back to big business. Just what the country needs. How refreshing to see the actual outcome of the reversal of these two policies. Must show this to all my small business mates who for some reason have their blind faith in the coalition.

  186. MJ, I found that Robb interview a little unsettling. Did you see where Hockey is being sidelined for Robb and Turnbull.

    At that economic forum put on by the Australian, at the Uni, the spokesmen for the Coalition, were Abbott, Robb and Turnbull. No sight of Hockey

    Also present were Wong and Swan, which we heard little of. One wonders if it was put on for the Coalition.

  187. Migs, sorry to hear that you are also not well, Those damned yanks!

    Thanks for your feedback on my poem, it always means a lot coming from a fellow wordsmith.

    You were missed while on holidays, but even more when you are home and still not here. :sad:

    Take care and get well soon.

    Cheers :grin:

  188. Well tree, the Opposition can lay the matter to rest by using the services of the Parliamentary Budgety Office to cost the policies. He could even let us in on what they are.

    By the way, the PM allowed many changes to that body, that the Opposition demanded. They have little excuse not to use it.

    The problem is that Mr. Abbott is only making one firm promise I can see, is to set up an audit commission after the election. All promises hew3 makes, relies on the result that that committee comes up with.

    We know from what has Occurred in Queensland and NSW, all will be delayed, into the never never I assume.

    Treasury does not cost ideas, only policies that are released.

    It does cost to demolish.

  189. tree, this site is no there to promote the Coalition. The balance comes from its existence.

    No right-wing site, to my knowledge has anything decent to say about Labor. Why should the left-wing sites be any different.

    People are free to come and make up their own minds. They are also free to visit the right-wing sites, if they want a different view.

    Now if we were claiming to be neutral, covering both sides, this would be different.

    We are not.

    Maybe you should set up a neutral site yourself. It is easy to do..

    We are openly and proudly a site where those from the left of politics can view their opinions and make comments on politics in general.

    We do not even claim to have all the answers, as many visiting trolls claim them, and only they have access to.

    I have made a habit of reading from both sides of the fence, before forming views of my own.

    We are not in the business of forcing our political views down anyone’s throat as you are. People are free to make up their own mind.

    I feel the likes of you, make our job easier, by getting our view across. Thanks.

  190. tree, fear not, there are plenty of howls of derision from other sites and the MSM to make up for our one sided view.

    It is OK for left-wing sites to exist you know, in a democracy.

    People will make up their own minds, whether they agree or not. They do not have to keep coming.

    You do not have to be their keeper.

  191. And in the age of the internet and with great thanks to Miglo and others, left wing sites are able to exist.
    the power of murdoch is diminished. the power of people who give anonymously to the ipa is diminished.

  192. tree, maybe you can explain, that most businesses will ne better off by the removal of the so called carbon tax and MRRT.

    I find it hard to understand, how the above which only apply to a handful of companies, can benefit all that do not incur the tax.

    It has been shown that the so called carbon tax has contributed little to inflation, just as Treasury predicted.

    Why is it that Coles find they are not affected but Woolworths are. Suggest, that Coles spent the last few years, preparing by updating their refrigeration etc., and I would say, Woolworths have not.

    As both of these companies have freestanding stores, in their own shopping complexes, why are not their roofs covered in solar panels for starters?

    Businesses can and should be planning to bypass the so called carbon taxes or its effect. That is the aim of the clean energy future. There is assistance given from the income of those tax available to do so.

    I have seen small pie factories, their whole roof covered in panels. The suspect, the rise in electricity is the least of their problems.

    Doing away with the small increase, created by the so called tax on carbon, will do little to bring down the excessive rises in electricity that we saw over the last couple of years.

    I also noticed, that the new Coalition governments in the states have contributed to this rise.

  193. “MJ, I found that Robb interview a little unsettling. Did you see where Hockey is being sidelined for Robb and Turnbull.”

    Doesn’t matter CU. The three stooges were just as funny with Curly offstage, if it’s comedy you want.

    Meanwhile, Abbott is saying Labor will deny Australians “the surplus they deserve”

    Deserve ? Christ, what have we done to deserve that !

    That’s more than just unsettling. It’s frightening.

  194. MJ, deserve, even it it is not good or necessary for the economy, people or nation.

    Also seen that Abbott said he is not getting wedged on the Murray water.

    Nice to know that he is at last waking up to the fact6, the PM has been doing this for a long time.

    He also has to say where the money is coming from, what has to be cut to get his plans into place.

    I do not believe the public will busy the line, I will set up a audited committee after I am elected. We will then work out what we can do. No, that I believe is one step too far for the public.

  195. MJ
    I even heard Abbott say that Labor will not be able to return a “deceitful” surplus.
    Golly gosh a “surplus” now has a character assessment , talk about dumbing down economics.

  196. I haven’t been able to comment via any of my mobile devices as the site keeps crashing.

    It’s probably just Apple Crapple :P I’m having no problem on either of my Android devices :)

  197. CU

    You missed it completely…”attempts to come to grips with a suite of Coalition policies yet to be announced” Think about it now…

  198. “I also noticed, that the new Coalition governments in the states have contributed to this rise.”

    May I suggest that (at least in Qld) that Beatty and Macenroth had a lot to do with it…FYI mackenroth stripped Energex and Ergon to keep the ship afloat back then and infrastructure up here has been in decline since then. When the disasters happened they had to pay twice…the price for labor mismanagement!

  199. No tree, I question the validity of the Costello audit. One that has moved away from conventional accountancy practices.

  200. “No tree, I question the validity of the Costello audit. One that has moved away from conventional accountancy practices.”

    And which audit might that be and which conventions were ignored?

    facts please CU facts now….

  201. Bacchus, the irony is that the WordPress theme we use for the blog is iPhone2, made specifically for mobile Apple devices.

    Go figure. :(

  202. Treeman, I will reiterate what Cu said: this blog is left-leaning. All of the authors and administrators are Labor supporters and they all despise Tony Abbott. All of the original bloggers also share these views.

    If you’re looking for a kind word about Tony Abbott then this is not the place you’ll find it.

    You will, however, find criticism of Julia Gillard or any of her ministers if we think it is deserved. Although we are Labor supporters it doesn’t mean that we all support every one of their policies. For example, most are dissatisfied with the PM’s stand on same-sex marriage and most here would like to see on-shore processing of boat refugees.

    But by and large we exist to push the Labor barrow and/or expose the rank incompetence of Mr Abbott and the gaggle of geese he calls his front bench.

    Deal with it.

  203. tree, cannot be bothered. I am sure if you do some Googling, you will find plenty of articles that condemned Costtello for his efforts in Queensland.

    Have better things to do with my time by searching for links you will ignore.

    By the way, Abbott has moved away from the carbon tax and onto NBNco.

    That explains Turnbull being allowed to make comments over the last few days.

  204. Migs, you have put it well. It is a free country, and I believe still have the right to our own opinions and beliefs.

  205. TWO separate reviews of the audit of Queensland state finances led by former federal treasurer Peter Costello have concluded the report was neither independent nor an “audit” as such.

    http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/national/queenslands-peter-costello-audit-trashed-by-experts/story-fndo1yus-1226466757844

    A second review has found major problems with the Costello audit of Queensland’s finances.

    The review was conducted by John Quiggin, the federation fellow in economics and political science with the University of Queensland.

    He says setting up the audit commission was a routine political manoeuvre designed to give the LNP (Liberal National Party) Government cover to abandon its electoral commitments.

    And Professor Quiggin says the audit’s suggestion that the previous government was “cooking the books” doesn’t stand up to close scrutiny.

    http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2012/s3585237.htm

  206. Costello tried to weasel his way out of his lies and got shot down again…

    The former Sydney University professor of accounting Bob Walker and economist Betty Con Walker, who were asked by unions to do another audit, say the Costello audit did not comply with relevant standards.

    Mr Costello last week defended his audit, saying it had been conducted in accordance with accounting standards and practices that have always applied in Queensland.

    But Professor Walker said it was a ”slippery response that avoids our point” and highlighted ”trickery and deception”. ”We noted that local auditing, not accounting, standards were mandatory for performance audits of corporations,” he said.
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    ”Local and international standards for this kind of work establish higher standards than were applied by the Costello commission.”

    More importantly, said Professor Walker, Mr Costello had no response to the Walkers’ main finding that the Queensland government had cash surpluses from its operations.

    ”The state has not borrowed to support the budget, to keep the lights on or to pay public servants,” he said.

    ”Recent deficits are mainly attributable to write-downs of asset values, not from overmanning in the public sector. Mr Costello is either out of his depth, or has deliberately produced a misleading report that we suggested was likely to be damaging to the Queensland economy.

    http://www.smh.com.au/national/professor-fires-at-costello-claims-on-audit-20120915-25znd.html

  207. ‘You will, however, find criticism of Julia Gillard or any of her ministers if we think it is deserved.’

    hahaha

  208. El gordo, did you hear that an Earth size planet has been discovered in the ‘Goldilocks Zone’ of the Alpha Centauri star system? It’s the closest one to Earth. We have neighbours!

  209. Did you hear that Megsy over The Australian has resigned to concentrate on writing books? He ran a great blog for five years…no abuse and a very interesting exchange of ideas. Will be sorely missed. Meganomics blog closes down at the end of the week.

  210. Looks like the Liberal policies will take from small business and give back to big business.

    So situation normal, shane?

  211. Just watching Abbott for his views on St John’s College. He had that cavalier look on his face that he thought it was a little bit of a joke, along with the behavior of undergraduates at Uni. LateLine.; Hockey was not much better. Others do not seem to the view of the Opposition ex students.

  212. “But by and large we exist to push the Labor barrow and/or expose the rank incompetence of Mr Abbott and the gaggle of geese he calls his front bench. Deal with it”

    By and large that’s exactly why I’m here…dealing with your rankly incompetent government and the gaggle that support it…from some of the comments and name calling it seems that you lot are not dealing with that too well….

  213. By and large that’s exactly why I’m here…dealing with your rankly incompetent government and the gaggle that support it…from some of the comments and name calling it seems that you lot are not dealing with that too well….

    But unlike your good self we are at least having a bit of fun.

  214. Sandy Was Sent By The CO2 GodsTo Bring Obama Victory

    http://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2012/11/05/sandy-was-sent-by-the-co2-godsto-bring-obama-victory/

    “WINTER STARTED early and Hurricane “Sandy” came late and without mercy. And it was no ordinary hurricane; it was dubbed “Frankenstorm” because of the monstrous destruction it threatened to wreak on the entire eastern seaboard of the United States

    An early winter is exactly what we expect from an overheated atmosphere

    Sandy came at a time pre-destined by the heavens and nature—just a week before the presidential elections in the United States, the most powerful country in the world yet so meek before the wrath of nature.

    Obama’s poll numbers were plummeting, and the CO2 gods came to his rescue.

    One would think that after a series of “unusual” natural calamities over the years, the issue of global warming and climate change would be fully accepted by now and the need to mitigate atmospheric carbon dioxide tackled and solved. But skeptics remain, insisting that global warming and climate change are either a hoax or a paranoid doom merchant’s commodity”

    Yes, seven plus years without a major hurricane strike in the US is extremely unusual. The record low number of tornadoes this summer is also very unusual….

  215. Yeah Migs, a very big loss. George is a good sounding board for policy formation. He’s been kept updated on the progress of GSC. Might be going but far from forgotten. Hi ho…

  216. “I have deduced SE’s identity and I can assure you he is one of the good guys.”

    I thought so, scrambled just made so much more sense than the rabid right here.

  217. tree, once again you have it wrong. We are doing very well. We believe that the Australian voter has more sense than you and Abbott give them credit for.

    I do not believe that all hate the PM. I do believe many admire her guts.

    Thanks for the continuous attacks by Abbott and the MSM, there is a danger that the PM becomes the underdog, that Australians like to support.

    Abbott is starting to sound like a whiner and is a little paranoid, in his belief that he is not being treated fair, and everyone is out to get him. That chin that is getting closer to his feet does not help.

    The man has loss his bravo and looks downcast most of the time. Does not come across anymore as the winner.

    In comparison the PM has spring in her step, and appears to be enjoying the job she is doing. What’s more she is getting results.

    All that Mr. Abbott has achieved,is having the Coalition ahead in the polls. For this, he has been given the label of the greatest Opposition leader ever. A little silly, as he had not had one win in any other area as Opposition leader. He is more unpopular the PM. He has not stopped or amended any legislation.

    Sorry, I have that wrong. He has prevented the Malaysian Scheme from going ahead for the time being. A success I feel he might come to object.

    What is he now that the polls are beginning to go the PM’s and Labor’s way.

    One can only say, he is quickly becoming a failure.

    No tree, we are happy with the way things are travelling.

    You could be right, that Labor will lose the next election. That is OK, that is democracy. What will not happen, none of us here will send the three years after, throwing a tantrum and weeping that we “WE WERE ROBBED”.

    LABOR SUPORTERS DO NOT BELIEVE THEY WERE BORN TO RULE, UNLIKE THE OTHER MOB.

    The other thing is that unlike you, we are not so desperate, that we feel the need to force our views and opinions down the throats of others.

    Each is entitled to our own views. That extends even to you.

  218. Being wrong all the time is their norm, and they are amiss so often they genuinely believe they are right all the time so project their incorrectness onto others.

    Cu’s born to rule mentality statement hits the nail. The right don’t believe they have to do anything to be in power. produce detailed policies, be held accountable or hold to any standard, as can be seen by the failings of the State Liberals, but they expect to hold all others to a much higher standard and accountability, usually one so high as to be unachievable, so they can squall “failure” when their impossible to meet standards aren’t achieved.

    Their hypocrisy knows no bounds.

  219. Just listening to a Constitutional expert on the Forrester appeal on the mining tax.

    If she is correct, the mining industry will he hoping he does not succeed,

    It would leave an opening for the PM to rescind the legalization that the royalties paid are deducted from the profits before MRRT is paid.

    That would fix up any unfairness, that they have based their case on.

    The other could be in my humble opinion, is whether we have seven crowns, or were six of them demolished at Federation. It makes sense to have only one.

    The states are not sovereign nations.

    That in my belief would mean that the royalties belong to the Commonwealth.

    ABC 24.

  220. He has prevented the Malaysian Scheme from going ahead for the time being.

    Actually it is the Greens who are stopping the Malaysian scheme from going ahead. Gillard does not need Abbotts support. She just needs the Greens.

    Also Swan is playing politics with this Treasury costing stuff. It has nothing to do with being honest but to score politicial points.

    As if Labor cares about honest policy costings. If people remember Labor did not put most of its policies for costing at the 2007 election until I think it was 24 hours before the election or something like that.

  221. “Being wrong all the time is their norm, and they are amiss so often they genuinely believe they are right all the time so project their incorrectness onto others.”

    Oh dear, break out the Zoloft….

    Gimme that z, o-l-o-f-t
    Gimme a grip, make me love me
    Suckin’ ‘em down, I’m happy man
    Can feel it inside, makin’ me smile

    …realize that the sky’s not made of gold
    don’t disguise the nature of your soul

    Gimme that z, o-l-o-f-t
    No longer pissed and you don’t bother me
    I’m makin’ it through, I’m givin’ my all
    When base are loaded, I’m whacking the ball

    …don’t suck the mind, don’t drain the source
    the path of life’s not so easy to course, buddy

  222. Neil

    Just because Gillard does not need Abbotts support does not mean he did not block the Malaysian Scheme. If the coalition had voted for it, it would have been passed with a massive majority in parliament so he is equally to blame as the greens.

  223. Let’s face it Shane, if the Greens had voted for it, no-one would be arguing the toss on whether Abbott blocked it or not. Fact is both Greens and conservatives had valid reasons not to vote for a proposal no better than the Timor solution. Both were brainfarts (to coin a phrase of used here) that had equally short legs…

  224. With offshore processing (under any circumstances) being contra to Greens policy, there was never any way that it would have been supported by them. What happened was that Abbott wanted “stop the boats”, plus the so-called orderly queue.

    Gillard’s idea was a good one – a regional solution to a regional problem and a way to stop the people smugglers. Malaysia has tens of thousands of already processed genuine asylum seekers waiting for a country to take them. Therefore the idea was that Australia increase it’s intake by taking already processed refugees in Malaysia and unprocessed asylum seekers would have to take their turn in the queue.

    Tony Abbott’s plan on the other hand is nothing but a heap of unworkable bullshit, a pandering to the Alan Jones listeners.

    Abbott insisted on offshore processing and when Gillard came up with a solution..Tony ran a mile…

  225. So is leaving people in limbo, not knowing their future. They are already in

    With the regional solution, starting with Malaysia, there has been protection for these people put in place.

    Nauru and Mannus Island are only meant as a stopgap measure until the regional solution is put in place. Nauru and Mannus Island will not stop the boats coming. This was recognized in the Houston report.

    We have the Greens demanding we take all. It is now too late for that. It will not clear up the backlog in Indonesia and Malaysia. They will keep coming to those countries.

    Turning back the boats is futile. Temporary visa’s mean nothing, as the people are not coming to Australia, off the boats.

    It is time for Abbottt to be realistic and get on board. What is being proposed it not too different from what he is demanding. The difference is, it just might work if we are lucky.

    I am inclined to go with that Indonesian spokesman that said last week, nothing is going to stop them, while the conditions in their own land forces them to flee.

    There is no easy or nice answer for this problem. One can only go for the one that causes the least damage.

  226. ‘There is no easy or nice answer for this problem.’

    A large humane concentration camp at Ord River might solve the problem.

  227. I once had a second job washing dishes at a 5 star restaurant in Sydney and didn’t get any tips :( …..( but Chef did cook my dinner for tea-break ;) ) :D

  228. There has been about 2000 boat people a month since July, so somewhere like the Ord River or Broken Hill would make ideal refugee centres.

  229. Come to think of it if Abbott was in guvmint it would be a bêtise.

    On the other hand this guvmint is more like peppermint, fresh and soothing.

  230. Yup, El Gordo @ 6pm.. send them to the ‘hill, we have had people from all walks of life here since day dot ( about 130yrs now )….. we have the oldest Mosque in Australia and one of the oldest Synagogs …. our ancestors are a mix of Wiljakali, Paakantyi, English, German, Scots, Irish, Yugoslaves, Italian, Lebanese, Turks, Afgans, Maltese, etc, etc all mixed into a little town in the middle of the outback.. we have survived :D…. we have Mines galor opening up in this area in the coming few years…. we have one of this biggest solar farms starting soon….. we have a large Wind farm just kick’n into gear…. we have sheep, cattle, orchards etc in the area that are all screaming for workers…. thier not ‘boat people’, they are house buyers of the future, car buyers, furniture buyers, and the odd one or eleventy may be come restaurant owners of the future……….. lets get them off the boats and into the bush, lets use the MMRT, Carbon price etc to build the infrastructure in regional areas and bring people in to help drive the Mining boom and Ord River type areas into the future….. if they have the guts to throw all to the wind for the chance at a better life here, then I for one reckon we better get some of them buggers over here and off the boats and give them a go, ay, cobba.

  231. ‘lets get them off the boats and into the bush’

    Hear hear….
    ——————
    CU They would not be behind barbed wire, no over crowding, swimming pool, gym, education for all, learn a trade, speak the language and understand our culture.

    Treat them as economic refugees and future Australians….increase our migrant intake as Malcolm Fraser suggests.

  232. Fraser never exiled them to the outback. Are you going to create a new state? Maybe they can move in with the Indignous perople.

  233. Scrambled egg, a number of your comments are getting caught up in our Spam folder. This can happen when your name is linked back to a website. It happens to Iain Hall often and more recently reb.

  234. Gillard, 2012:

    “I was not an office bearer of the association, I was not involved in its activities, I was not involved in any bank accounts it may have held, I was not an official of the AWU, I was not in charge of the conveyancing file.

    Gillard, 2007:

    “I was a university student” doing “part-time clerical and administrative work” for this “ debating society”.

    “Gillard … The ALP’s answer to Sargent Schultz”

    Bwuhahahahahaha and again Bwuhahahahahaha for good measure!

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