Café Talk V

Page five already! Talk away, Ive been enjoying listening.

422 comments on “Café Talk V

  1. Lunalava

    Guess what, Melbourne isn’t whingeing like Sydney. Melbourne didn’t want the G20, anyway they’ve got a better conference The Aids conference

    ‘We don’t need it and we don’t want it
    They didn’t win the G20, they were given the G20
    we (Melbourne) have won the world AIDS conference, which will be the biggest conference ever staged in Australia,” he said.

    Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/we-didnt-want-g20-anyway-doyle-says-20120711-21vii.html#ixzz20IMsuswm

  2. Sue I am reminded of the post-apocalyptic film “On the Beach” (1959) staring Ava Gardner. It has often been claimed that Ava Gardner described Melbourne as “the perfect place to make a film about the end of the world.”

    Well I ‘m thinking Melbourne is the perfect place for a conference about AIDS.

  3. That NSW Liberal Minister for Infrastructure is a boofhead, having a whinge about Sydney’s inability to host the G20 he said”

    He declared: “Sydney is the only true world city of Australia”.

    ‘‘We have the Opera House that can cater for thousands of people, we have the Museum of Contemporary Art; we’d made arrangements and offered them some excellent provisions of services through the Botanic Gardens but, instead, they’re going to cop the Convention Centre on the Brisbane River,’’ he said.

    ‘‘What the leaders of Russia and Britain will think when they’re told they’re going to go to Brisbane over Sydney one only can guess.

    Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/opinion/political-news/brisbane-to-shunned-sydney-get-used-to-it-20120710-21tor.html#ixzz20IQRhFM5

    No mention of the airport chaos and a convention center closed for three years. A succession of NSW state governments not capable of funding infrastructure.

    What Federal government would be stupid enough to trust an O’Farrell government with any sort of funding agreement after the Pacific Highway cop out.

  4. I have just seen the most disgraceful performance of a coalition politician on Capital Hill
    Don Randall from WA, insulted past Naval officers, the Indonesian govt, The PM , Stephen Smith for not acting quickly about the Defence investigation.(well the PM was pretty normal but the Naval officers and Indonesians was truly reprehensible)

    Luckily Mike Kelly was the other guest. On the Naval officers he said it was about time the Coalition left their cosy air conditioned offices and got out and saw what the navy deals with. He also got stuck into Randal about first laws of the sea , saving life , about refugees, women and children.
    On the Defence scandal he said rather than Randal complain about Smith, why was it that the Howard govt did nothing during it’s 12 years even though inquiries had been held.
    The PM and Brisbane and the G20, it wasn’t politics but rather than complain Sydney should get on with infrastructure and work with the govt on the airport.
    Kelly was apalled that Randal would attack the Indonesians considering Abbott was gutless to even discussing his policy with the Indonesians.

    Randal was such an embarrassment, he will probably be banned from Capital Hill. The coalition should be apologising to the Indonesians before Abbott arranges a meeting. Or he may find the President is just too busy.

  5. Finally, consumer confidence significantly up.

    Supermarkets to undertake significant discounting.

    So much for the carbon tax wrecking ball.

    Abbott flags industrial relations shake up.

    So much for Abbott.

  6. Sue, Don Randall has been a bit of a nonentity, but apparently this is the standard..

    LIBERAL West Australian MP Don Randall has flirted with controversy at a media interview by referring to the national broadcaster as the “gay BC”.

  7. Min
    Don Randall was an embarrassment, there wasn’t anything standard about how he spoke of the retired navy personnel.
    Julie Doyle even appeared a bit shocked by Randall’s comments.

  8. The tide must be turning for the Liberals, why? because they have released the attack mongrels on social media.
    A few sites I have visited are concerned with the increase in vicious person attacks.
    This tactic looks like it came straight out of the fascist propaganda handbook.
    For example before their rise to power, Nazis used to visit beer halls “asking” for political donations. Anyone who had the temerity to chuck them out soon had a visit from a few thugs who administered intimidation in the form of physical violence.
    Fast forward to a new century and intimidation by physical violence has morphed into personal attacks using the internet.
    Anyone who has experienced emotional abuse knows it hurts just as much as physical abuse only the bruises are internal where they don’t show.
    Personal attacks are easily orchestrated against the few courageous people prepared to speak out against the rise of the extreme right in Australian Politics.

    Remember “The only thing necessary for the triumph [of evil] is for good men to do nothing.” attributed to Edmund Burke.

  9. lunalava, does this sound familiar?

    The Five Rules of Propaganda

    Here are five basic rules of propaganda, courtesy of Norman Davies in his extraordinary book “Europe: A History”:

    The rule of simplification: reducing all data to a simple confrontation between ‘Good and Bad’, ‘Friend and Foe’.

    The rule of disfiguration: discrediting the opposition by crude smears and parodies.

    The rule of transfusion: manipulating the consensus values of the target audience for one’s own ends.

    The rule of unanimity: presenting one’s viewpoint as if it were the unanimous opinion of all right-thinking people: draining the doubting individual into agreement by the appeal of star-performers, by social pressure, and by ‘psychological contagion’.

    The rule of orchestration: endlessly repeating the same messages in different variations and combinations.

    http://it.toolbox.com/blogs/thinking-out-loud/the-five-rules-of-propaganda-3338

  10. We have Abbott jumping with glee with a small rise in unemployment. A fall that was expected before this.

    I fail to understand why four Coalition States are not contributing to this situation with the tens of thousands of PS and contract workers, they are sacking. Add to that the numbers NGO schemes they no longer finance. Yes, NGO staff are also paid workers.

    To make matters worse, these arrogant states do not believe that the public need to be informed of the numbers. Sometimes, especially in NSW, I feel they do not know. Further they have not bothered to find out.

    All we know, they number many ten of thousands. How many jobs lost in Grafton alone.

    I suspect that the strike at the Coles distribution centre in Victoria, managed by Toll, is workers trying to recover what the lost during the years of Workchoices.

    The are asking for basic things like weekend loading’s be restored.

    There has to be many, that lost their entitlements permanently under WorkChoices. Those agreements where allowed to run their course when FWA come in. Many ran for many years.

    Productivity went down during the Howard years. It was at it’s highest during the years that the Hawke government encouraged them to work together,

    There was enough flexibility for the workers and bosses to get together, to formulate agreements that got them through the GFC. Workers voluntary ceded many of their entitlements during this time.

    Where the FWA was seen to fail, as some say in the Qantas dispute, it was parts written and introduced by Mr. Abbott when he was the minister responsible.

    Some of the problems with FWA and the Thomson matter, can also be traced back to parts of the act that Me. Abbott enacted and carried through to FWA.

    When the IR act has been changed over decades, it has never been completely rewritten This would be like reinventing the wheel.

    As for Mundine, he does not talk for the Aboriginals. What Aboriginal appointed him. He talks for Forester, and no one else.

  11. Cu, I fail to understand why four Coalition States are not contributing to this situation with the tens of thousands on PS and contract workers, they are sacking.

    Could it be that the conservative state governments are sing the PS sackings to help out their mate, Tony Abbott?

    It doesn’t seem t matter that the public will miss out on many services they are paying their taxes to receive.

  12. Cu, it’s changing times much like the Industrial Revolution when cottage industries sank into the mire never to return. Retail is shedding jobs due to online buying which requires few staff and associated expenses.

    After all this time Darryl Lea is facing voluntary administration risking 700 jobs. My first impression was..what..only 700 jobs? That’s it, in all of Australia that’s the sum total of Darryl Lea’s employees.

    From Michael Pascoe: For now though, nothing much happening here on the scary unemployment headlines front – move along.

    http://www.smh.com.au/business/jobs-data-misses-the-real-story-20120712-21xrc.html#ixzz20NxFa1wG

    Tony Abbott’s comment in support of Warren Mundine is nothing more than a retort relating to his refusal to be a part of a bipartisan approach to the asylum seeker issue. It’s a matter of you show me yours, and I’ll show you mine. W. Mundine went along with it..

    TONY Abbott says he is willing to work with the government to develop reforms promoting indigenous employment, but does not expect Julia Gillard to pursue such a bipartisan approach.

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/indigenous/tony-abbott-backs-warren-mundines-call-for-bipartisan-appraoch-to-indigenous-development/story-fn9hm1pm-1226424299453

  13. Rann highlights shift towards clean energy

    Low Carbon Australia’s Chairman, former SA Premier Mike Rann, has told business leaders in Perth that technology is transforming the way the world produces and uses energy.

    Mr Rann addressed an audience of about 100 at the Sustainable Energy Association of Australia luncheon on July 12.

    “Proven clean technology is already available and demonstrating the operational efficiencies, cost savings and productivity gains that can be achieved on the journey towards a more sustainable future,” he said.

    Mr Rann, who attended the Rio+20 Earth Summit last month as a member of the Climate Group, is supporting its Clean Revolution campaign to promote up-scaling clean technologies to create a more prosperous future for the world’s economies.

    “There is clear affirmation from the world’s business leaders, investors and politicians that they are all working on ways to accelerate the uptake of clean technology,” he said.
    http://www.lowcarbonaustralia.com.au/media-release/rann-highlights-shift-towards-clean-energy

  14. Pip, there had to be a catch there somewhere..working with the government..hell’s bells, where’s the benefit in doing something like that!!

  15. There is no small reason why China is now the world-leader into research in biofuels. It used to be the USA, but now it’s China. Youngest was part of the delegation from University of Queensland to Beijing – her PhD thesis is biofuels. All of the equipment for Australia which is UQ and UniSA all comes from Beijing.

  16. I assume most have received those electricity bills that are creating much horror,

    We need to remind ourselves, that the so called carbon tax is playing only a minor role in these horrific rises.

    Something is wrong, when sales fall in an industry and prices rise.

    This is not normal in a market base economy.

    it is time for the Federal government to have an inquiry into the industry. The figures just do not add up.

    So if you’re worried about rising power prices, don’t blame the carbon tax or the renewable energy target. Blame the National Electricity Market and its regulator, the Australian Energy Market Operator. The AEMO is a public-private partnership between the government and — you guessed it — the energy industry.

    http://newmatilda.com/2012/07/12/blame-energy-industry

  17. What I suspect underpins McCrann’s misunderstanding of the impact of the carbon price is an out-of-date understanding of the changing structure of the Australian economy. This leads him to overestimate the importance of the cost of energy. Take for example these statements McCrann has made:
    “The tax targets the very basis of industry productivity – cheap, plentiful and reliable power.”
    And:
    “Read my lips: economic growth and jobs equals energy use equals carbon emissions.”
    Make no mistake, energy underpins the effective functioning of our modern world – we couldn’t do without it. But that doesn’t mean we couldn’t afford to pay more for it or couldn’t become more efficient in using it.
    Back in the early 1970s, the Arab Oil embargo and resulting spike in oil prices led to a huge global economic shock with rising unemployment in combination with high inflation. I suspect this experience may partly be to blame for the huge weight McCrann, and many retired engineers and geologists, place on the price of energy and electricity in particular.
    Yet since that time there has been a rapid decline in relative share of energy costs in our economy and that of the rest of the developed world. This has been largely a function of the rise in the importance of services in our economy compared to industrial goods, but also substantial improvements in energy efficiency

    http://www.climatespectator.com.au/commentary/terry-mccranns-outdated-carbon-tax-attack?utm_source=Climate%2BSpectator%2Bdaily&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Climate%2BSpectator%2Bdaily

  18. It has been well documented that the carbon price will add around 0.7 per cent to the rate of inflation as measured by the consumer price index, with the main addition to household costs being through a 10 per cent rise in electricity prices. These price effects, while relatively small, will be a dominant issue in the political and policy discussion on the price on carbon.
    A big positive unfolding for the government just as the carbon price comes into force is a large drop in petrol prices.
    Recent trends in global oil markets has seen petrol prices fall sharply, by an average of around 13 per cent since a peak was reached at the end of April. While global oil prices have picked up a touch in the past week, petrol prices will hover about 10 per cent below the April peak for the next few weeks at least.
    In terms of the timing and the order of magnitude, the petrol price fall is manna from heaven for the government.
    It is not widely known or commonly understood just how little of the household budget is spent on electricity. The perception is that electricity makes up a large share of the household budget. According to the weights used by the Australian Bureau of Statistics in calculating the CPI, electricity accounts for just 2.2 per cent of the household budget. As an aside and by way of comparison, 4.8 per cent of the household budget is spent on alcohol.
    http://www.climatespectator.com.au/commentary/gillards-timely-black-gold-gift?utm_source=Climate%2BSpectator%2Bdaily&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Climate%2BSpectator%2Bdaily

  19. When will the public perception at this time collide with reality? It is not all gloom and doom.

    Is this the disastrous econmy Abbott is predicting.
    In other words, the recent 10 per cent fall in petrol prices, if sustained, will directly cut around 0.4 percentage points from the CPI. Indirectly, the effect will be a little larger as transport and other costs influenced by petrol prices either fall or are kept in check.
    These facts show that the overall cost of living impact from the implementation of the carbon prices will fortuitously be more or less completely offset by the recent fall in petrol prices. If account is then taken of the household compensation by way of income tax cuts and pension increases, the cash position of the household sector will materially improve as the carbon price comes in and as petrol prices edge lower.
    From a cost of living or well-being perspective, it should also be noted that the levy on middle to high income earners to pay for part of the repair bill for the Queensland floods ended on June 30. The ending of this levy will provide yet a further boost in take home pay, which in turn will further add to the disposable income of the household sector.
    The story of the improving finances of the household sector does not end there. Mortgage interest rates have fallen by around one percentage point since November 2011 which for highly indebted consumers, presents a significant boost to cash flows.

    http://www.climatespectator.com.au/commentary/gillards-timely-black-gold-gift?utm_source=Climate%2BSpectator%2Bdaily&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Climate%2BSpectator%2Bdaily

  20. Luna/Pip, I don’t think the level of spite coming from the wing nuts is random, rather, that it’s orchestrated. Every left wing blog site and every pro Gillard Facebook group has come under sustained attack recently. It’s nasty and abusive. It’s full on.

  21. Migs, Cu picked up on this a while ago..that there was some sort of desperation. Logic would dicatate that there should be a certain amount of smuggness..so whence and the why fors of the attacks?

  22. The truth is, Mr, Abbott is wrong about FWA The PM did not go far enough when she was the minister responsible. There is an review under way at this time. Why cannot Mr. Abbott wait to have some facts.

    …………At the Coles distribution centre at Somerton in Victoria, ordinary working Australians, the sort of people claims she is in power to help, went on strike against their boss, Toll Holdings, for better pay and conditions.

    These workers do the same work, organising and distributing the same goods to the same Coles supermarkets, as those employed in other Coles distribution centres, including in Melbourne, but are employed on lower wages and worse conditions. Through taking this strike action, these workers are pursuing a new collective agreement that would provide parity in pay and conditions with their colleagues at other distribution centres.

    So whose side are you on Julia Gillard? Are you on the side of the striking workers or the Coles boss and his $15 million annual pay check? Are you on the side of the striking workers or Coles and its $1 billion profit.

    Yesterday it looked as if other Coles workers would take solidarity action. Coles went to fair Work Australia to stop them.

    Whose body is Fair Work Australia Julia Gillard? Labor’s.

    Under whose anti-strike laws does it operate, Julia Gillard? Labor’s.

    Toll Holdings is talking about the picket being illegal Julia Gillard. Under whose laws? Labor’s.

    It is Labor values which make strikes illegal except in certain very limited circumstances. It is Labor values that force workers to fight for pay equality against companies which make massive profits. It is Labor values which turn picketing into a crime in the eyes of the bosses.

    If you were serious about representing ordinary working Australians and not big business, Julia Gillard, you’d join the Coles picket line at 6 am on Friday morning and mobilise the ALP and its members in Melbourne to be there to support these ordinary working Australians in their just fight against two greedy and very tough companies.

    Even a word in support of the strikers would be a great reinforcement of supposed Labor values.

    You could get a lift from Trades Hall at 6 am with Socialist Alternative. And a right royal ear-bashing.

    See you on the picket line, Prime Minister.

    The picket is at the Coles Distribution Centre, Union Road and Somerton Road, Somerton.

    This Sunday – get everyone down to the Toll workers’ picket line for a community rally! Let’s show the Toll workers that the whole union movement and the rest of the community are behind them 100% in taking on the corporate giants Toll and Coles in their struggle for equal pay and conditions!……

    http://enpassant.com.au/2012/07/12/labor-values-see-you-on-the-picket-line-then-prime-minister/

  23. Miglo@6.14
    that’s what i’ve noticed. by the way, if i wanted to know what the ipa is spruiking, i’d watch the abc, so more scrolling for me at the cafe.

  24. Why cannot Mr. Abbott wait to have some facts.

    CU, Liealot doesn’t deal in facts, just slogans. I believe the Liars are channeling the ghost of Goebbels past.

  25. I wonder how much sympathy does those who work for the print media, have for the unemployed. After all, there will be many of them in the same plight.

  26. Worth a try I suppose.

    Yesterday shadow treasurer Joe Hockey blamed the Government’s bid to lower emissions for a rise in unemployment from 5.1 per cent to 5.2 per cent in June. The month saw 33,000 full-time jobs disappear.

    “This is a disappointing figure,” Mr Hockey told reporters in Cairns.

    “And the fact that more than 33,000 full-time jobs have been lost in one month says that when Wayne Swan did a little tap dance about how good the economy was he failed to take into account the impact of the carbon tax, the impact of cost of living changes and the fact that this government is making life harder and not easier for everyday Australians.”

    Mr Hockey didn’t elaborate on how a jobless figure recorded the month before the start of carbon pricing demonstrated the “impact of the carbon ……….

    http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/this-carbon-pricing-thing-is-just-not-cricket/

  27. But how does one explain this.

    ……………..Since the announcement of a carbon pricing scheme in February last year there have been 75,000 jobs created. Since the package known as the Clean Energy Future plan was revealed in July last year there have been 57,500 jobs produced by the economy.

    Since that announcement in February last year, gross domestic product – or national output – has risen by three per cent; household consumption has gone up by the same rate; and new business investment has increased by 20 per cent.

    Since passage of the carbon pricing legislation last November, GDP has risen by 1.3 per cent; household consumption by 1.6 per cent; and business investment by 5.5 per cent.

    Most of the business investment was related to mining projects in Western Australia and Queensland, the GDP growth was from a relatively low level, and it might have required a couple of interest rate cuts starting in November, plus big carbon pricing compensation payments to low and middle-income earners from June, to get household spending on the move.

    But there is no indication that looming carbon pricing had any significant dampening effect on important economic measurements.

    Economist Stephen Koukoulas has been tracking what movements, if any, have been recorded in economic statistics since July 1.,,,,,,

    http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/this-carbon-pricing-thing-is-just-not-cricket/

  28. You have to have a good laugh at just how absurd the Liberals are.

    Heard on the radio driving to work this morning that the thing causing the impediment to expansion and jobs and growth in mining and major manufacturing in Australia is the lack of skilled people, especially engineers.

    The committee found that if the shortage of engineers can be addressed by the government then mining and manufacturing expansion would proceed at a greater rate with the creation of many more jobs.

    Did anyone else notice the carbon price not being mentioned by this committee nor anything about it causing mining and manufacturing to close down or cut back?

    Here’s the rub. That committee’s chair was a Liberal and there was at least one other Liberal on the committee. No Labor pollies sat on that committee from what I could glean.

    Now for a little rant that has been a pet peeve of mine for a long time and I raised on the old Dunlop blog several times. The chronic lack of skills in this country are almost solely the fault of Howard.

    One of Howard’s foremost con jobs on the Australian people was to manufacture a crisis through long neglect and then come riding in like a white knight throwing huge amounts of money at it, always at election time, but never telling the people it was his deliberate neglect in the first place that caused the crisis.

    Skills was by far the worst instance of that connivance. Howard was warned of a looming skills shortage in his first term and subsequently many times each year from then on, with each warning being more strident and from wider groups and experts, yet he did nothing, not one single thing to address the problem he was being clearly told was leading to a drastic shortfall in the Australian economy. Worse, he cut funding to R&D and those areas of education that could produce people with the skills that were going to be in demand.

    It wasn’t until the skills shortage began making headlines and the opinion polls were less than favourable to him with a looming election coming up that he “suddenly discovered” a skills shortage and with a back of an envelope policy plan (like many of his policies were) he threw hundreds of millions at it in a knee jerk reaction that inevitably turned out to be an expensive failure.

    It took Rudd to start to turn this Howard made disaster around, and Gillard has continued Rudd’s initiatives. It will take a decade or more to turn around Howard’s deliberate neglect and wasted opportunity on skills in this country at a time he was rolling in so much money they couldn’t estimate how much was pouring in. There are tens of thousands of people either unemployed or under employed who could have had engineering degrees and not only be earning good money for themselves, but be contributing to increased productivity and to the economy.

    Howard. Skills = BIG FAIL

  29. Mobius, even on the skills shortage..under the Howard government these included cooks, hairdressers and even piano tuners, that which followed was the subsequent rorting by so-called Hairdresser Colleges especially in Melbourne. Labor has changed the criteria of a skills shortage to mean medical experts, engineers and scientists.

  30. Just when you thought it was safe to blame the Federal Government for a large increase in electricity prices:
    “One piddling light and the plummeting cost of wholesale electricity” An interesting read over at “The Conversation” http://theconversation.edu.au/

    This article debunks the bullshit being put around on electricity pricing. I particularly like the comment section mentioning “smart meters”.
    The Government should roll out smart meters – power to the people!

  31. A good read, we will probably see a few more “super” investors, who were chasing the too good to be true returns, on the tv screens soon. The companies they put their trust in are :
    ” Royale Capital and ActiveSuper, are run by Justin Gibson and Jason Burrows and, says ASIC, managed to amass $4.75 million from more than 200 investors.

    “IN A shock development, the corporate wallopers’ latest targets of alleged multimillion-dollar bad behaviour in the financial world were based on Queensland’s Gold Coast – just like the last half-dozen
    The Australian Securities and Investments Commission’s dogged pursuit of groups selling financial advice and products, but lacking licences, training or approvals, could present a serious problem for the state’s fledgling Premier, Campbell Newman, given that these outfits seem to make up the principal economic activity in the region.

    Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/business/another-gold-coast-group-keeps-the-watchdog-busy-20120712-21yx0.html#ixzz20RxVb5z6

  32. I am seriously looking at installing a smart meter so that I can buy when the price is right. I reckon this might be a better way of slashing electricity costs than installing solar panels.
    The ideal solution would be a duel 12v- 240v system which would allow me to buy electricity off the grid at the cheapest rate, store it in battery and use it the grid price is high.
    I want to be able to act in my own self interest and not have to swallow the current take it or leave it offerings from the big electricity generators.

  33. lunalava – not sure if this helps, but I was lucky enough to instal solar panels when full subsidy of $5,000 was offered. Summer months almost immediately no power bills and credit accrued to $630 early May this year. That credit now being used up with winter and my heavier heating needs with gammy leg. Latest bill yesterday had used up half that, so I can still sit here typing and stay warm for free, sort of. Warmer weather and more sunshine coming next month so I’ll break even on power costs. I imagine that next winter will be even better. What are we supposed to do with an ever accruing credit? Can we get the cash?

    PS I did it more for supporting the environment than for the money, but it’s nice to have everything I was told come true!

  34. Thanks patriciawa here in Canberra our heating bill is the big expense about $800 per winter. We use ducted natural gas (electricity would be a lot dearer).
    Cost of electricity is not constant throughout the 24 hour cycle.
    Consumers should be able to take advantage of lower cost options according to when and how they purchase electricity, it’s just another commodity after all.

  35. Do you really want Jo as Treasurer when he lies about basic facts? And if it is not a Great Big Lie then it is just incompetence.

    Yesterday shadow treasurer Joe Hockey blamed the Government’s bid to lower emissions for a rise in unemployment from 5.1 per cent to 5.2 per cent in June. The month saw 33,000 full-time jobs disappear.
    Mr Hockey didn’t elaborate on how a jobless figure recorded the month before the start of carbon pricing demonstrated the “impact of the carbon tax”.
    http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/this-carbon-pricing-thing-is-just-not-cricket/

  36. What about State Liberal governments sacking thousands of public servants and drastically cutting back on programs with the attendant unemployment that follows on from that?

    Bet you won’t see Hockey make the slightest squeak about them, just as he doesn’t when the opposition has a go at the Federal government for doing things the Liberal State governments are also doing.

  37. lunalava @11.20

    And no guesses about who was the journalist that led the misinformation about the GST

    Steve Lewis Telegraph
    http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/tax-on-a-tax-with-gst-inflating-carbon-costs/story-e6freuy9-1226424886605

    But News ltd doesn’t like having a story on the truth, as the Truth which emerged at 10.07 has been whipped off the front page
    http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/national/gst-on-carbon-tax-is-inefficient-hockey/story-e6frfku9-1226425059834

  38. Does this sound familiar. Could it apply to trolls. Trolls appear to have one point of view, that they stick to, no matter the arguments put up in opposition.

    I learnt one important thing at uni. The more one learns, one learns that there is much more to learn.

    I am always conscience of the fact that there is more than one way to skin a cat. That everyone has their own agenda.

    At the end of the day, the most we can hope for, is that we have got it right.

    Time will soon let us know if we are wrong.

    …Kruger and Dunning proposed that, for a given skill, incompetent people will:
    tend to overestimate their own level of skill;
    fail to recognize genuine skill in others;
    fail to recognize the extremity of their inadequacy;
    recognize and acknowledge their own previous lack of skill, if they can be trained to substantially improve….

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

  39. Why does one feel they are being ripped off by the power companies.

    …………THE new head of the state’s highly profitable power distributors, Vince Graham, has told staff that prices must be held to rises in the overall inflation rate – or less.

    The Herald reported yesterday that the three government-owned power distributors – Ausgrid, Endeavour Energy and Essential Energy – were raking in record profits, with the largest of the three, Ausgrid, telling the state government it expected to earn $1.1 billion for the year to June 30.

    The revelations that power companies are earning a return on equity of up to 21.1 per cent, well in excess of most firms, prompted outrage from welfare and consumer groups, especially given years of double-digit rises in power bills.

    In recent staff briefings, Mr Graham said the level of price rises of the past few years were unsustainable, according to staff at the meetings. Staff have also been told future price rises must be kept as close as possible to the general inflation rate, which was 1.6 per cent in the year up to March.

    Late last year, when he was running Endeavour Energy, Mr Graham informed the industry regulator, the Australian Energy Market Commission, customers could expect price rises ”well below those of recent years and closer to the rate of inflation for the next seven years”.

    ”The businesses have already been asked to review their operating and capital budgets for the next two years to reduce their costs so that future prices are kept as low as possible,” he said yesterday.

    Mr Graham was recently made acting head of the government’s three network businesses. Households are facing additional price rises of as much as 21 per cent with effect from July 1. In some areas, prices have risen by more than 60 per cent over the past three years.

    The acting NSW Treasurer, Greg Pearce, said the power industry reorganisation, the planned loss of more than 700 jobs and $400 million in cost reductions ”will also put downward pressure on electricity price rises … while funding energy rebates to ease price increases”.

    But the cost-cutting will not go to the core of the problem, the consumer group Choice warned.

    ”The electricity companies argue that they are building this infrastructure because people are using more electricity, particularly at peak times, but what they don’t do is take any sort of action to reduce that demand,” Choice’s Matt Levey said……..

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/rampaging-price-rises-to-stop-says-energy-boss-20120712-21yz1.html#ixzz20T0WK953

  40. Starting to get figures in on the extra cost of building materials.

    Let’s look at concrete, the ingredients in concrete are fly ash, cement, sand, gravel, water and additives like oxides, accelerators and retarders…depending on the season.

    Every one of the ingredients attracts a CO2 tax plus margin and GST before it hits the batching plant. The batching plant puts a margin on the extra costs plus GST. I order the concrete and add margin plus GST and now that concrete has gone up over $55 a cubic metre which is just over a 22% increase over what it was just a few weeks ago.

    The government either did not include GST in their modelling or are lying that there should not be a GST on the CO2 Tax. But then again…if anyone believes the original modelling on $20 per ton is exactly the same as $23 then they have rocks in their heads!

  41. 20MPA: From $189+ to $210+

    25MPA: From $197+ to $216+

    Standard Exposed: $210+ to $229+

    Premium Exposed with Oxide: $287+ to $310+

    Other rises that might or might not be attributed to the tax…extra cartage, waiting time, excess concrete return and off site washout has miraculously increased the same percentage as the concrete…funny that.

  42. How does a $0.95/M3 delivered by the supplier equal an increase of 22% to the customer?

    Normal annual price rises, power, fuel, overheads etc. will be more than 95c a cubic meter.

    By the way BC Sands is offering an $8.00 per cubic meter discount on high quality concrete delivered.

    Also how are you getting for so cheap. $55 when the prices I’ve just looked at start at $160 and go to $300 per cubic meter. At the most expensive $300/M3 the carbon price will add $15 and if they put on GST, which may be illegal, it will be $16.50.

    Hardly huge and still less than normal price rises in the system.

    But the important thing here is this line from Boral.

    “While Boral continues to work on a range of carbon reducing projects to improve manufacturing and operational efficiency…”

    So the carbon price is working exactly as it should and with the manufacturing and operational efficiency gains everyone is a winner, including the environment. Which seems to be the part you overlooked in the rant.

  43. Also how are you getting for so cheap. $55 when the prices I’ve just looked at start at $160

    ME, scaper said an increase of $55 which is 22%. Doing the maths gives a M3 price of $250 at that rate…

    Your point is still valid though – how much of the 22% increase has anything to do with the tax, as scaper was attempting to claim?

  44. Sorry, got the last post wrong. should be “how much of the 22% increase has anything to do with the tax carbon price, as scaper was attempting to claim?”

  45. A rant? Oh dear, talk about shellshock.

    The prices I quoted are what I pay, of course I’ve got to put my margin on every imput.

    Master Builders advise that all contractors add a cost escalation clause for increased costs of labour or materials to all contracts as the real hit will come after last years stocks are diminished.

    Apparently, the largest increase due to the tax, to construct a building will be the Labor inputs. I haven’t even considered putting my labour rate up but will review it in a couple months time as any rise in my living expenses will be borne by the client…the law of the jungle!

  46. Now this sounds reasonable to me:”

    “it also points out that the Greens preferenced One Nation and other right-wing parties before Labor at the 2011 state election yet now demands Labor preferences.

    It also notes the Greens backed the O’Farrell government in anti-union legislation.

    ”In view of these circumstances, Conference resolves that NSW Labor should not provide the Greens Party with automatic preferential treatment in any future preference negotiations,” it says.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/nsw-labor-right-amends-greens-motion-to-placate-left-20120713-220ge.html#ixzz20TX7XXEM

  47. Oh golly gosh Steve Lewis reckons he has been misquoted. But wants to keep things secret and the courts “trust” he is telling the truth. Pull the other one Lewis, as todays reporting on GST, you cannot be trusted to get that right. Then last week you got it wrong about bottled water for kids at parliament house, yeah what a record and that’s without Grech. I suppose if we looked back from now to Grech the evidence of trust could be a quest too far.
    “NEWS Limited journalist Steve Lewis argues he has been wrongly accused of having told media adviser James Ashby that he planned to “get” the Speaker, Peter Slipper, by publishing sexual harassment allegations.

    In the Federal Court today Mr Lewis’ barrister Alec Leopold SC said that the text message Mr Lewis sent was not referring to Mr Slipper but instead was referring to locating a professional driver to speak to him about Mr Slipper’s alleged travel rorts.’
    http://www.news.com.au/national/news-limited-journalist-steve-lewiss-we-will-get-him-text-not-about-peter-slipper-court-told/story-fndo4bst-1226425395132

  48. As it always has been scaper and will be just as much under a Liberal government, and even more so under Abbott’s DAP. But don’t scream blue murder over a Carbon price rise that was well and truly flagged and is a tiny component of all price rises, especially as I’ve found suppliers who are at this moment, after the introduction of the carbon price, offering discounts far greater than the amount of the carbon price cost to them.

    I’m looking forward to reading you rant even more here about the cost rises if Abbott is elected, that’s if your business survives an Abbott DAP and recession.

  49. Yes Bacchus my sincere apologies to scaper. I screwed up the price increase with the full price.

  50. Recession? My industry has been in recession for over two years! I know of people that have lost everything due to lack of turnover and others have closed down for good and are now wage slaves to the miners.

    I doubt that the Direct Action Policy will be put in place at all. We will pull out of Kyoto and there will be no trading in air.

  51. Wage slaves to the miners? Scaper, now I know that you’re exaggerating..my ex brought in $141,000 last year and is on around $160,000 this year.

  52. I’ve paid more than that in tax earlier this century. Wage slave might be a little OTT but having to go back and work for someone else after the freedom of being your own boss is akin to being a slave.

  53. A shadow FM who greatest skill, is undermining the nation overseas.

    …………The federal opposition says it’s waiting for an official statement from Seoul to confirm that South Korea won’t start whaling operations, before responding.

    Foreign Minister Bob Carr said yesterday he’s been assured by South Korea that it won’t proceed with a so-called scientific whaling program, it had announced just last week.

    Senator Carr spoke on the sidelines of the East Asia Summit of foreign ministers in the Cambodian capital, Phnom Penh.

    But Opposition Foreign Affairs spokeswoman Julia Bishop says she hopes Senator Carr has South Korea’s permission to release the information, remains concerned until Seoul makes a formal announcement.

    This follows an …………….
    http://bigpondnews.com/articles/National/2012/07/13/Bishop_has_doubts_of_whaling_statement_771235.html

  54. Progressive state.

    Climate change “propaganda” would be removed from Queensland schools and unions would have less access to workplaces under motions passed by the Liberal National Party (LNP) conference.
    Hundreds of LNP members, meeting in Brisbane for the party’s annual state conference, passed a motion on Friday calling on Education Minister John-Paul Langbroek to remove “environmental propaganda material”, particularly “post normal science about climate change”, from the curriculum.
    The member who moved the motion said the material was political, but one speaker argued it was dangerous to dismiss different points of view.
    Another controversial resolution which was passed calls on the government to amend the Work Health and Safety Act to remove the right of access to workplaces for union officials.
    Tags:Queensland, Policy & Science…

    http://www.climatespectator.com.au/news/lnp-asked-scrap-climate-change-lessons?utm_source=Climate%2BSpectator%2Bdaily&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Climate%2BSpectator%2Bdaily

  55. What a strange statement from J. Bishop. Given that South Korea had already informed our Foreign Minister of their decision, why should it be up to South Korea to inform Australia’s opposition. South Korea would naturally assume that the opposition would avail themselves of the information already provided to the government. Or at very least J. Bishop should make personal contact with Mr. Kim to confirm the FM’s statement before running off to the press…

  56. Boring facts I know.

    ………The Labor government has made $13 billion in public sector savings since coming to power in 2007, Finance Minister Penny Wong said.

    The savings came though major reforms to areas of government, including travel, property management, and information and communications technology (ICT).

    Senator Wong said more efficiency measures have yet to take effect.

    ‘The Gillard government will continue to look for more innovative and efficient ways of delivering essential government services, while delivering value for money to taxpayers,’ the minister said in a statement.

    She said future savings can be expected from the second phase of whole-of-government travel arrangements that were recently finalised, and provides a simpler approach to booking, paying and reporting travel across government.

    The,…………….

    http://bigpondnews.com/articles/Politics/2012/07/13/Govt_cuts_public_spending_by_13b_-_Wong_771321.html

  57. The federal government says laws have been specifically amended to ensure that no GST is payable on the $23-a-tonne carbon tax.

    Air-conditioning firms, data contractors and waste firms have begun applying the GST on top of the carbon tax, News Ltd reports.

    NSW electricity companies also confirmed the 10 per cent GST would be applied to power bills after the carbon tax had been added.

    The government says laws have been specifically amended to ensure that no GST is payable on the $23-a-tonne carbon tax applied to about 300 of the nation’s largest carbon emitters.

    http://bigpondnews.com/articles/National/2012/07/13/GST_does_not_apply_to_carbon_Govt_says_771382.html

  58. Hockey, is once again, wrong. Previous comment.

    ….Shadow treasurer Joe Hockey said the ‘taxes-on-taxes’ scenario revisited the pre-GST era of hidden wholesale sales taxes and would make the economy inefficient.

    ‘The only area where you still have taxes on taxes is insurance which is the most hideous area of tax,’ he told the Seven Network.

    ‘The best way to get efficiency in the economy is to have only one tax on a product, not an embedded tax and then another tax on top of it which is what’s happening with the carbon tax.’……….

    http://bigpondnews.com/articles/National/2012/07/13/GST_does_not_apply_to_carbon_Govt_says_771382.html

  59. Might I have a small boast about my dear cousin Emma Jenkins. Emma has posted here..a very special young lady who suffers from CFS.

    News:

    Dear Emma,

    Congratulations on receiving this offer to attend Edith Cowan University commencing Semester 2, 2012.

    I am pleased to advise that you have been successful in your application to study for a Bachelor of Social Science, which is being offered through our School of Psychology and Social Science.

  60. Something I heard discussed on late night radio, but had to go searching for as the msm doesn’t seem keen to spread this around.

    “Labor reins in Barnett
    On a two-party preferred basis, the Barnett Government would win an election with 54 per cent of the vote compared with Labor’s 46 per cent. While this represents a comfortable margin for the conservatives, it is a far cry from the 59-41 result Westpoll recorded in January, a figure that represented electoral oblivion for Labor and the potential loss of 10 seats

    Pollster Keith Patterson, of Patterson Research Group, said Mr Barnett had slid in the preferred premier stakes but his Government remained “fairly comfortable ahead of Labor in voting intent”.

    “Whilst the Barnett Government still looks to be in a strong position, the fact that Labor has gained so much in the face of an unpopular Federal Labor Government must ring alarm bells for Liberal Party strategists,” he said. “On this data the Government are still the likely winners of the next election but they will need Nationals support.”
    http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/breaking/14230512/labor-reins-in-barnett/

  61. Hey Migs, better get the word around Canberra to bunker down because scaper is coming to town next month…lol!

    Going to Rally Ho, might even get up and say a few words. Planned for the 22nd I believe.

  62. “On this data the Government are still the likely winners of the next election but they will need Nationals support.”

    Sue. According to the latest polls support for the Nationals has collapsed so the Liberals will need the Greens support.

    The people are getting a reality check on State Liberal governments and finding they are not the great saviours and fixers they and the right wing media plus shock jocks promises they would be. The State Labor governments weren’t good by a long shot but they were a known factor. The Liberals on the other hand are long term wreckers and nobody knows what they will destroy from one week to the next.

    Abbott will be no better and in fact a lot worse than his State Liberal counterparts. He is promising much he has no hope of delivering, with the media being complicit in not holding him to account for his reckless promises and lies. He is raising expectations so high based on fantasy that it will come crashing down in a big way when the people see he’s all mouth and no marrow.

  63. I read this as the NIB saying a lot of people are making money out of people going o/s for cosmetic surgery, so we better get in and make a buck as well.

    “‘Australians are spending a lot of money on cosmetic surgery by going overseas. Somebody is making money out of it: the airline, the travel agent, the financier like MasterCard, and not just the clinical providers at the end.

    ”So we’re just exploring the prospect of, maybe we can have a role in assisting people making those decisions, because they know our brand.”
    Advertisement

    NIB’s role could be providing finance, organising a medical provider or organising a person’s travel arrangements, Mr Fitzgibbon said.

    Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/business/nibs-nipandtuck-holiday-cover-set-to-raise-eyebrows-20120713-221da.html#ixzz20f45cwhb

  64. Prime Minister Julia Gillard has addressed the NSW Labor Party conference, promising an additional $1 billion to fund a pay rise for workers in the community and social service sector.

    Ms Gillard used her address to make the announcement, while also listing Labor’s achievements in industrial relations, carbon pricing and the National Disability Insurance Scheme……………………

    ……………….Ms Gillard also used the speech to launch an attack on the coalition’s workplace relations agenda, telling Opposition Leader Tony Abbott that “the fight is on”.

    Mr Abbott last week said employers needed more flexibility in the workplace, but Ms Gillard chided the Opposition Leader, warning delegates that more flexibility will not mean “making it easier to get time off when the kids are sick”.

    The Prime Minister said Mr Abbott paid her the biggest compliment of her life when he declared in May that “she won’t lay down and die”.

    “The fight’s on and we will fight it and win it,” Ms Gillard said.

    “I am too proud of what we have achieved for working people to do anything else but fight.”

    Ms Gillard did not touch …………

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-07-15/gillard-pledges-extra-funds-for-social-workers/4131562

  65. Gillard getting wide plaudits for her speech. it’s the type of speech with substance that Abbott could never make.

    Another $1b for social workers and closing the gender gap. Another thing Abbott will never do even if he was rolling in revenue.

  66. I just found this in WordPress Support:

    WordPress.com blog owners have full control to approve, delete, or edit the comments left on their blog.

    :)

  67. I actually did edit someone’s comment once and he subsequently went feral. Still talks about it 12 months later.

    But who cares? :mrgreen:

  68. Mr. Blog Owner, sir,,…. no-one would be so cruel as to say bad things about poor old Port Adelaide… it would be wrong to kick them when they’re down. :lol:

  69. I thought the pie makers were going to be put out of business. Thsi story, therefore must be wrong.

    Pie maker Patties Foods expects full year profit to increase by up to seven per cent as it continues to develop new products in the face of difficult trading conditions.

    The maker of Four n Twenty pies and other famous brands, such as Nannas and Herbert Adams, on Monday said its margins had come under pressure in the supermarket category as the popularity of private label products continued to grow.

    ‘The trading environment remains challenging with continuing margin pressure and low consumer sentiment,’ Managing Director Greg Bourke said in a trading update.

    http://bigpondnews.com/articles/Finance/2012/07/16/Patties_pies_to_post_7_profit_772212.html

  70. Here’s one I like.. Major Mori did an outstanding job as David Hicks’ defence lawyer. From a friend of mine who is now lecturing in criminal law, the defence of David Hicks’ is being used as a teaching tool for defence lawyers.

    IN A personal reinvention, the US military lawyer who represented Guantanamo detainee David Hicks has moved to Australia to work as a civilian lawyer.

    http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/political-news/us-lawyer-for-david-hicks-takes-a-shine-to-melbourne-20120715-224bp.html#ixzz20knYxgvk

  71. Last week 7.30 host, Leigh Sales, tweeted that she wanted stories about the Super Clinics.

    Warnervale Super Clinic about to open

    IT’S been years in the making, but the Warnervale GP Super Clinic is finally about to open its doors to patients.

    First promised in 2007 by Dobell Federal MP Craig Thomson, the building is in its final stages of being fitted out and is on track to open next month.

    For long-suffering Warnervale residents who have been promised a number of infrastructure projects that have failed to materialise, the new clinic can’t come soon enough.

    Mr Thomson inspected the clinic this week along with practice manager Michelle Robinson, supervising registered nurse Rhonda Neill and project manager Tony Sweetnam.

    “This is a state-of-the-art facility with a great range of GP and allied health services to meet the needs of one of region’s fastest growing areas,” Mr Thomson said.

    He said the federal Government’s $2.5 million funding boost had provided the kickstart needed for the clinic, which will be officially known as Warnervale Medical Services. “The fact that the nearby temporary clinic on Sparks Rd has seen 50,000 patients in less than two years shows the demand for medical services in this growing area,” Mr Thomson said. “That’s 50,000 patients that did not have to visit Wyong Hospital emergency department.”

    http://express-advocate-gosford.whereilive.com.au/news/story/warnervale-super-clinic-about-to-open/#.UAFosZSI_pk.twitter

  72. Catching up,

    Patties could always try an unusual marketing strategy such as putting (identifiable) meat into their pies.

  73. Whoops, thank you too also to Rob, Debbie, Deb, Mal, Steve, Bob etc etc for your support. Scientists are fearsome when roused..one of daughter’s favorite sayings. :D

  74. For those of us who are Facebook friends with Jan CB, her beloved moggy has passed away. Jan is very distressed of course, so we’ve popped over to send her blessings and white light.

  75. “I actually did edit someone’s comment once and he subsequently went feral. Still talks about it 12 months later”
    Well Miglo I just hope you edited the feral for all those 12 months

  76. Sue, I have to fess up..I did that once too, it was about a year ago. Reb said blankety-blank and I replaced those words with the word “fruitcake”. I thought it kind of amusing..reb normally has a good sense of humour..he didn’t on this occasion…

    I know the occasion which Migs means..it was most definitely amusing…

  77. The Fair Work Australia investigator who led the three-year inquiry into former Labor MP Craig Thomson has rejected Opposition criticism about the length of time it took to complete his work.

    Terry Nassios has given evidence to a federal parliamentary committee which is examining the Fair Work investigation.

    He has told the hearing his job would have been made easier if he did not have to rely on third-party legal findings.

    And he says he did not refer the matter to the police because he had no power to do so.

    “I believe when you look at that chronology of the inquiry and the investigation, I believe it was a proper investigation taking the appropriate period of time,” Mr Nassios said.

    Earlier this year the Opposition obtained an email which showed a former industrial registrar urged Mr Nassios to consider contacting the police over the Health Services Union in 2009.

    Mr Nassios says he told the registrar his conclusions would not have stood up to scrutiny.

    “I would have indicated to (the registrar) that I felt the conclusions he had drawn on that particular date would not have stood up to the scrutiny that those conclusions would have no doubt have been subject to,” he said.

    Mr Nassios told the committee he had worked on the investigation until June 30, 2009 but that his powers changed from the start of July that year.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-07-16/fwa-investigator-defends-length-of-thomson-inquiry/4133374

    The elder Ms. Bishop was at her caustic best at the joint committee hearing. Wish I turn in earlier.

    Remember the elder Ms. Bishop believed kerosene baths were OK for the elderly.

  78. AEC commissioner Ed Killestyn, who did not identify any breaches of the Electoral Act by Mr Thomson, rejected coalition MP Bronwyn Bishop’s comments that the commission had given a tick to misappropriation of funds or fraud.

    He said the AEC had no power to judge or determine if the payments were authorised or unauthorised.

    ‘Our power is simply vested in the Electoral Act,’ he said.

    Mr Nassios said he would travel overseas on Tuesday and return in early August.

    http://www.skynews.com.au/topstories/article.aspx?id=772332

  79. Hardheaded Socialism Makes Canada Richer Than U.S.

    Canada and Australia mostly followed the same policies to get through the GFC and have many other similar programs or proposed programs. Canada has been well ahead of us in media regulation, which is why Murdoch is such a small player there.

    Abbott wants Australia to go down the US path, and if the Coalition had been in power through the GFC their proposed policy, only $4b less than the governments action, would have found Australia in a similar situation to the US at this time.

    Worse is that Abbott doesn’t want to go down the current US path, but down the George W Bush US path. Both are about as intelligent as each other and that’s why even thinking of Abbott as leader of this country sends shivers down my spine.

  80. Pip @2.20am, you can go off people, you know.

    …..the elder Ms. Bishop believed kerosene baths were OK for the elderly.

    CU, she mightn’t be quite as keen on them now that she’s turned 300.

    ME, Canada seems to be quietly steaming ahead. The fact that it’s doing all this quietly and happily must be in some measure due to the lack of the malevolent presence of the toxic Murdochracy..

  81. Hey Jane…..Go Crows :grin:

    God help us, more holy rollers.

    “Well I’m not racist but…”

    Church leaders upset over ‘Australian Christians’ name
    PM
    By Simon Lauder

    The Australian Christians candidate for the seat of Melbourne, Maria Bengtsson, says she is realistic about her chances in this week’s by-election.

    “I’ll just be happy if I get 4 per cent, I’ll be happy,” she said.

    Ms Bengtsson is also realistic about some of her beliefs and is aware that her stance against halal food products in supermarkets will be described as discriminatory.

    “Well I’m not racist but what we don’t like is another religious like Islamic people pushing their religion, their halal food, their culture, their sharia law,” she said.

    “They’re living in a Christian country and I represent 60 per cent, over 60 per cent of Christians in Australia.”

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-07-16/church-leaders-upset-over-australian-christians-party-name/4134380

  82. The PM continues to answer questions. The PM does not run.

    Prime Minister Julia Gillard faced questions from 220 independently selected voters in an hour-long People’s Forum in Perth.

    The participants expressed their concerns on a wide variety of issued including the carbon tax, rising electricity prices and border protection to the Prime Minister.

    Gillard told the forum the carbon tax would stay, despite Tony Abbotts promises to voters that it would be abolished should the coalition come to power.

    http://bigpondnews.com/articles/National/2012/07/17/Gillard_answers_Perth_voters_in_forum_772445.html

    http://bigpondvideo.com/NewsOnDemand/469560/

  83. CU

    thanks to the link about the community forum in WA. I am sorry I missed it. The sky news video snapshot appears to be a good reflection of the night. The people came to ask about the carbon tax and not about the supposed “lie”.
    I had heard earlier in the day the PM talking about Premier Barnett refusing to allow the federal govt have information about the cost of the carbon tax and compensation on the WA electricity bills. Gillard repeated that at the community forum, in WA electricity cost before Carbon Tax had risen 57% with no compensation. In WA the cost of electricity with carbon Tax will rise by 9%, but with compensation.

    Will be interesting to see if WA papers report on the community forum, however an audience of 220 shows that voters are interested in hearing directly from the PM.

  84. And yesterday the PM announced the Wave generation power supply for HMAS Stirling in WA

    “Construction of the wave power facility at HMAS Stirling is expected to start later this year, with wave-driven power expected to be supplied before the end of next year.

    The project will provide HMAS Stirling with up to 1.25 megawatts of power per day and is expected to save approximately 2.6 million kilograms of carbon emissions across five years

    Read more: http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/waves-to-power-the-navy-20120716-2265f.html#ixzz20pCDGFJ1

  85. Poor Brony having a whinge at a Public Servant about why more Unions were not investigated bythe AEC. Then she was told, although the govt she was in wanted more investigations, it FAILED in giving more funds to do the job.

    “The AEC commissioner Ed Killesteyn said that when laws were changed in 2006 relating to which groups are associated entities it increased the AEC’s workload from 75 groups to well over 200. ”The AEC was not given any additional resources at that time. Since then, and indeed before then, we apply a risk assessment process in relation to those organisations that are subject to compliance audit,” he said.

    Read more: http://www.watoday.com.au/national/aec-comes-under-fire-over-selection-of-party-donors-facing-review-20120716-226ib.html#ixzz20pDN1deX

  86. Amazing how perceptions can be changed without the prism of the media running their agenda for them CU

    Going in, 38 per cent were against the tax, 32 per cent were undecided, and just 30 per cent supported it.

    But the exit poll saw support surge to 49 per cent.

    The Government needs to do a LOT more of this type of thing. remove the middle men. They always dilute the message the Governmnet put out to suit their agenda (yet appear quite happy to parrot the opposition verbatim (if the brain fart isn’t too big, that is)

  87. Heard that story on tidal generation for HMAS Stirling this morning. Good stuff, along with their quokka preservation on the island and the other environmental actions I’ve seen Navy take they should be proud of their efforts in attempting to reduce or eliminate what is a very big environmental and polluting footprint.

    I saw something similar in Seattle where a large Navy ammunition depot had been built in an environmentally sensitive area amidst a lot of protest at the time. Whilst all around that depot a lot of the environment has been destroyed by development over the decades, within the depot boundaries large swaths of the environment were still pristine as the security and exclusion zones kept them that way.

  88. “They’re living in a Christian country and I represent 60 per cent, over 60 per cent of Christians in Australia.”

    She obviously hasn’t read the latest census data.

    Atheists are the largest growing group in Australia, though that’s not a religion.
    All other religions are growing except Christianity, which is in significant decline.

    In the past decade, the proportion of the population reporting an affiliation to a Christian religion decreased from 68% in 2001 to 61% in 2011. This trend was also seen for the two most commonly reported denominations. In 2001, 27% of the population reported an affiliation to Catholicism. This decreased to 25% of the population in 2011.

    Between 2001 and 2011, the number of people reporting a non-Christian faith increased considerably, from around 0.9 million to 1.5 million, accounting for 7.2% of the total population in 2011 (up from 4.9% in 2001). The most common non-Christian religions in 2011 were Buddhism (accounting for 2.5% of the population), Islam (2.2%) and Hinduism (1.3%). Of these, Hinduism had experienced the fastest growth since 2001, increasing by 189% to 275,500, followed by Islam (increased by 69% to 476,300) and Buddhism (increased by 48% to 529,000 people).

    The number of people reporting ‘No Religion’ also increased strongly, from 15% of the population in 2001 to 22% in 2011. This is most evident amongst younger people, with 28% of people aged 15-34 reporting they had no religious affiliation.

    The thing I have found with the Christian religions is the huge disparity between practicing and non-practicing constituents. If the census were to ask that question the Christian religion share would be nowhere near 60%. The Christian religions in this country have the most amount of non-practicing members, and really they only tick the box through a history of family being professed Christians, but most likely non-practicing or in response to a campaign that falsely claimed that by ticking non-affiliated or atheist you would be allowing Muslims to get additional government resources over and above the rest of the population.

    So even though many profess to the Christian they really aren’t, and certainly don’t behave in a Christian manner. You need only look at Abbott to see the greatest example of that. For a man who professes to be deeply Christian and espouses that faith, moving within it’s senior circles, he certainly is one of the most un-Christian like people around.

  89. Mobius, that is one thing that I dislike intensely about any religion..a tool used to assert superiority over others. If you look at the basic tenets of most religions, the major component is the betterment of society however if you take those tenets and twist them around you end up with as you say, people who espouse certain values..the “holier than thou” attitude. Irrespective of a person’s religion or lack thereof, it’s actions which speak the loudest.

  90. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-07-17/asylum-issue-threatens-robust-relationship/4136436

    Tony Abbott’s policy of forcing asylum seeker boats back to Indonesia would be illegal under Australian law and represent a “crisis” in the relationship between the two countries, Foreign Affairs Minister Bob Carr says.

    The Coalition is standing by its policy despite warnings from former senior defence officials that it would be problematic and may backfire.

    The Opposition Leader says turning the boats around when it is safe to do so would send a clear message to people smugglers and discourage asylum seekers from trying to make the dangerous boat journey to Australia.

    But Senator Carr, who has been in Indonesia for talks with his counterpart Marty Natalegawa, says the Coalition’s policy would likely fall foul of the High Court given last year’s ruling that scuttled plans to send people to Malaysia.

    “The policy would be illegal under interpretation by the Australian High Court – that’s a reasonable assumption I think based on what the High Court has said in the immediate past,” Senator Carr told ABC Radio National.

    “The policy would be illegal under international law.

    “The policy has been emphatically rejected by Indonesia.

    “The policy would represent a colossal risk to the Australian personnel who would face vessels disabling themselves and would be charged with the task of rescuing people form these disasters.”

    Senator Carr says he spoke with Mr Natalegawa about the asylum seeker issue and thanked the Indonesian government for its efforts at trying to stop people smugglers.

    He says the Coalition’s policy would likely cause a significant breakdown in the relationship between the two countries.

    “If a Coalition figure is elected prime minister of Australia and said ‘I’m going to start turning back the boats and leaving them in Indonesian waters’, you would without a doubt have a crisis in Australian relations with Indonesia,” Senator Carr said.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-07-17/bob-carr-says-turning-boats-back-is-illegal/4135902?height=100&ratio=1×1&width=100

  91. Min whispers an aside.. the name of scaper’s group is Gina Can Do It. Perhaps the name for a topic..Gina can sweat profusely while Tony nibbles on her earlobe, Gina can make really really bad business decisions such as giving Andrew Bolt is own TV show..

    Gina can….(swear words permitted).

  92. Not my group although I might have had something to do with it in the beginning. If I was to write an autobiography I would call this period my Forrest Gump chapter.

    You do realise that Bolt is neck and neck with Insiders don’t you? Wait to he gets an hour head to head with the outdated format.

    How dare a woman become the wealthiest and most powerful person in Australia!

  93. Scaper, I have zero interest in Gina. Perhaps if she became a Betty Ford or a Margaret Whitlam then I would definitely have interest, otherwise she is nothing more than a big, fat, greedy cow. Apologies..there are just some people you can’t take to…

  94. Was just reading this article on the Liberal Party Website, ( must be slumming).
    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=418622548188895&set=o.243836265642512&type=3&theater

    These couple of paragraphs are interesting,
    ““Boats have been turned around in the past, they are being turned around off Sri Lanka but all the government can do is malign the Navy and refuse to reintroduce a policy that Julia Gillard herself has supported,” Mr Morrison said.
    Mr Keenan said: “Three boats in 24 hours, carrying 127 people, is a sure sign that that the people smugglers will continue to exploit the weak policies of this directionless Government.
    “The Sri Lankan Government is turning the boats back around and making hundreds of arrests in their efforts to stop the people smuggling trade – something that this Government could learn from.

    What I want to know from Morrison is this ” does he want our Navy to enter the Territorial waters of another country and turn the boasts around, this could cause an International Incident, it is good that the Sri Lankan Government is doing this in there waters”

  95. Paul, I followed the link and read a comment from one of the rude types who post there. I checked out his profile. Here’s what he promotes:

    Kill all Muslims
    Kill all politicians
    Kill all religious leaders
    Make French people shower everyday
    Nuke Jew York
    Poison the Sub continent drinking water

    Not good.

  96. Paul and Migs, that pic is disgusting enough. I note that a couple of our good mates are there adding a protest.

  97. You do realise that Bolt is neck and neck with Insiders don’t you?

    You do realise that Bob the Builder is thrashing Bolt in the ratings don’t you?

  98. Min @615
    what you may or may not know that cando group was setup by cori bernardi. doing a cando for gina was just a side dish for the media, their little stunt at fairfax sydney lasted a whole 30 minutes.
    sounds as though the little mate is quite the man. to date i have read, he was in on the convoy of no consequence,the ipa, redirecting the burdekin and now bernardi’s can do.

  99. Maybe she is right. The video is worth watching.

    The Opposition’s calling on her to sack Joel Fitzgibbon, who’s been linked to another campaign to reinstall Kevin Rudd as Prime Minster.

    But she says the Opposition should mind their own business………

    TOM IGGULDEN: The Prime Minister’s rejecting the free advice from the shadow Education minister.

    JULIA GILLARD, PRIME MINISTER: Christopher Pyne needs instead of slinging around insults to be focusing on the future of Australia’s children.
    ……..

    http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2012/s3547959.htm

  100. Does one remember that Howard years, when much effort was put towards putting restrictions on stem cell research.

    If my recall is correct, Mr. Abbott led the charge.

    Medical break throughs are coming every day, as the result of this research.

    A Melbourne scientist is hopeful the discovery of a unique marker on stem cells from the gut, liver and pancreas, could lead to early cancer diagnoses – as well as the development of new treatments.

    Professor Martin Pera from Stem Cells Australia helped develop an antibody that identifies and isolates the marker, which sits on the outer surface of stem cells – as well as another type of cell called a Progenitor……….

    http://bigpondnews.com/articles/Health/2012/07/18/Stem_cell_discovery_important_for_cancer_772897.html

  101. As this is the same all over the western world, could it be a contribution to the state of the global economy.

    This and the drive to cut taxation, at the expense of the lower income earners.

    Since 1980, 14 per cent of all personal income growth in Australia has gone to the richest 1 per cent.
    That group – currently those individuals earning over about $200,000 – have received 14 times their share of Australia’s economic growth in the past generation.
    With Oxford University’s Tony Atkinson, I have been compiling data on the income share of the rich in Australia over the past century. Our new estimates, which now run from 1912 to 2010, show that for most of the twentieth century, the top 1 per cent earned less than 1 per cent of all economic growth.
    From the 1910s to the 1970s, the share of income earned by the super-rich steadily shrank. But the pattern over the past generation has been quite different.
    The share of income earned by the top 1 per cent has doubled. The income share of the richest 0.1 per cent – the top 1/1000th of adults – has tripled. The ratio of CEO salaries to the salaries of average workers has risen dramatically.
    True, we stil

    http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/4136484.html

  102. Oh dearie me. How dare she play politics.

    THE ACTU has savaged the nation’s most senior business leaders and employer groups for blaming the Fair Work Act for Australia’s long-term productivity decline, accusing them of waging a “dishonest and misleading” campaign to cut wages and conditions.

    The attack comes after several business leaders urged Julia Gillard to put industrial relations reform at the top of her priorities list at a special roundtable in Perth sponsored by The Australian, with the Woodside Petroleum and National Australia Bank chairman Michael Chaney warning the IR “pendulum” had swung too far in favour of the unions.

    The Coalition also accused the Prime Minister yesterday of using workplace laws for “electioneering” purposes after revealing to the NSW state Labor conference on Sunday that she would enshrine the issue at the heart of next year’s election campaign…………

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/industrial-relations/kearney-savages-business-over-ir/story-fn59noo3-1226428525983

  103. scraper bowed and scraped:

    How dare a woman become the wealthiest and most powerful person in Australia!

    Lol, I’m sure scraper’s welfare will always be uppermost in Rinehart’s mind.

  104. Cuppa, also I very much doubt whether Gina is a (sort of) woman has much to do with her wealth. Compare the red carpet treatment which Gina gets from the far right with the attitude towards Thérèse Rein being wealthy.

  105. Scaper has been a Gina fan since way back. I have a feeling that old scaper is going to be sadly disappointed.

  106. Cu, what a laugh.. the NAB Chairman says the “the IR “pendulum” had swung too far in favour of the unions”.

    That depends very much on where he believes the “centre” to be….one thing’s for sure, it’s not where it used to be before John Howard became the PM.and lined up his far Right statues on his front benches!..

    The pincer movement is in full swing. Big business speaking out about IR laws, ably promoted by ltd news, Abbott and his far Right cohorts in the Coalition still looking under their beds, and travelling all the way to America for some helpful advice from the far Right think tanks on how to crush the unions and return to SerfChoices.

    Yet they have the gall to attack our Prime Minister for being on the side of average, ordinary Australians.

  107. Honestly, if Therese Rein or Gina were left wing PMs..just imagine the mish-mosh that the media would have made out of either of them. Just try applying the same principles to these ladies.

    OMG the hair!! (with accompanying descriptions from Women’s Weekly about how to either defrizz frizzy hair or how to give lank hair volume), OMG why doesn’t she try going on a diet, OMG her giggle (that’s Therese), OMG with all her money you’d think that she’d try to make herself look half-way decent.

    The list is endless…

  108. Scaper,

    Interesting concept, that it’s femme fatales who wreck homes. The man in question is of course only an innocent bystander.

  109. Scaper,

    But that is of course all Julia’s fault. You are presenting as nothing more than a gossip, prepared to spread slander in order to make God only knows what point.

  110. Careful, scraper! Not sure about what the blog owner would think of slanderous comments here.. yours are in “pending” till he has seen them…

  111. Scaper,

    It’s slander because you are reading into it your own interpretation. You are also using language which is inflammatory. I appreciate your comments, because that is the way a good number of people do think. It doesn’t make them right and they are more often than not coming from a point where they see themselves as having the high moral ground.

    The high moral ground is something which I personally would never want to assume because there for the grace of God go I.

  112. Scaper,

    If not common knowledge, it was common gossip. However, I do not appreciate comments being deleted when I’ve gone to the trouble of responding to these. I shows disrespect of contributors.

  113. I stand by my statement.

    But can you prove it. I have heard these slanders spread before. Those spreading them tend to run like blazes when called on them. Recall the about face the oo pulled when the PM called them on one of them.

    Put up or …. just keep getting called a liar ;)

  114. it was common gossip

    Apparently that is now described as ‘news’. Pity for the gossip sections in the paper, They are now redundant, and have been usurped by ‘the news’

  115. Tom, at least 4 comments have been deleted, therefore my comments look a bit odd taken in isolation. As stated, why bother with a blog which so heavily censors comments.

  116. As stated, why bother with a blog which so heavily censors comments.

    I must admit, it is frustrating. I personally don’t agree with it, but, on balance, is preferable to other issues experienced elsewhere.

    I would prefer that garbage uttered should remain there. In this case though, the allegations were pretty severe, and, legally speaking, not sure how much responsibility the blog hosts shoulder in such a case. They need to protect themselves from the petty stupidity of others

  117. Tom,

    My issue is that comments have been deleted after others have responded.

    My thoughts too, even if it’s garbage, it’s best to address the garbage than end up with the complete balls up which has been this afternoon.

    If that were the case regarding slander, then we had all better forget about making any comments whatsoever.

  118. Antony, as far as I can tell, none of your comments have been “censored”.

    Tom, I put scaper’s comments into “pending” for Migs to look at, as per your comment:-
    blog hosts need to protect themselves from the petty stupidity of others

  119. Tom, there was no slander involved because scaper was quoting from elsewhere, that whilst unsavoury to many here, was not slander as it was part of the public domain.

    I only caught a glimpse of some of the comments because they “disappeared” and, as stated whilst unsavoury, were not slander..being fair commentary and that which has been around for quite a long time.

  120. Min, I would have thought slander would remain slander however many times it
    appears in the public domain…

    The Oz, removed a certain article from it’s pages for a similar reason..

  121. Pip,

    So you’re now official moderator of this blog. Interesting..

    This blog has always been free and open to comment, but if you are now going to be censoring people’s comments, well that’s up to you.

    I did not say that you were censoring my comments, but that you left me sitting a shag on a rock.

  122. Pip, not at all. Slander is when people take offense, and this is the persons involved. Therefore, say for example I was slandered and recently I might take action.

    The snippets I saw of scaper’s comments before you chose to delete these were in my opinion fair comment and most definitely not slander. They are part of open debate.

    However, you run the blog your way.

  123. Pip,

    And which part of the commentary wasn’t factual? The items provided by scaper were to my mind unsavoury, but all a part of fair commentary. If you want to censor the blog where only the things which you personally approve of are published, then so be it.

  124. Antony I don’t like to argue, but in this case It’s best left for Migs, who owns this blog, to make sure he can’t be held responsible for the comments of others, where it could cause him a problem..

    I’m not in the habit of deleting or “censoring” anyone but this is a little trickier and Migs hasn’t appeared today so let’s just wait and see.

    For the record, I’m just one of a few who are able to moderate, and have been for a couple of years.. No big deal.

  125. Min, my point is that should the subject of those comments take “offence” the blog would/ could be in trouble.

  126. Pip,

    Fair enough. I didn’t realize that you were the moderator of this blog. Your call.

    Same as for Tom, I can’t say that I agree with your actions in deleting numerous comments. If that’s the way that Miglo wants to run this blog, I can’t say that I agree.

    Why would you think that those particular comments might cause Miglo a problem? I didn’t have problem with them, nor did Cuppa.

    It’s impossible to run a blog which is going to be so heavily censored.

  127. AntonyG – it should also be noted that the offending comments have not been deleted – just put into moderation (pending) until Migs can have a look and either agree that they could cause him a problem, or release them back into the public domain…

  128. Pip,

    As I am the current legal expert on this blog, I can assure you that if I thought that any comments in any way contravened legislation pertaining to vilification or defamation, then I was have advised Migs of this.

    It’s only 2+ years and over 160 posts that I’ve been doing this, and so I do have some working knowledge.

    That’s NOT the way that it works. You have to look into defamation laws. I have not seen anything at all which would be defamation – as stated, unsavoury yes, defamation most definitely not.

    Rubbish about “could be in trouble”..heaven help us, Migs and I would have been dead long ago and the blog long gone if we worried about posting things which might get us into trouble.

  129. Bacchus,

    My point is that the posts were there, and then AFTER I replied the posts were deleted which made me look like a shag on a rock.

    I saw the posts, there was nothing in it. It’s censorship and nothing else. It’s disappointing to say the least.

  130. Min, as i don’t claim to be a legal expert I’m leaving it for Migs to examine. It’s his blog.

    As Bacchus said…

    AntonyG – it should also be noted that the offending comments have not been deleted – just put into moderation (pending) until Migs can have a look and either agree that they could cause him a problem, or release them back into the public domain…

  131. Last comment from me Antony. i also saw the comments, and chose to put them into “pending” for Migs to examine.

  132. I can’t comment on the substance of the posts – I didn’t see them… However, I still think we should settle down until such time as Migs has a chance to have a look. He’s the one who bears ultimate responsibility here…

  133. Pip,

    Like I said. You’re now moderator of this blog, and it’s your choice as to which comments get through or not. Otherwise you wouldn’t have taken it upon yourself to do so without confering with the rest of Admin…or would you?

    I saw the posts, obviously so because I replied to them. There was nothing in them. It was censorship and as I said, disappointing.

    Therefore Pip, every comment which passes through this blog has to pass your scrutiny pending Miglo’s approval. Goodbye to Cafe Whispers.

  134. Bit melodramatic there AntonyG 8O

    You saw the posts and in your opinion there was nothing in them. Min seems to also be of this opinion. Pip is not and as an administrator of the blog, chooses to err on the side of caution rather than potentially expose the blog to legal issues. In the end, it’s up to Migs. He will decide whether the comments constitute a potential legal problem and will, no doubt, advise Pip and whoever else has Admin rights here of how to handle any such issues in the future…

  135. Personally, on reflection, I can see why the comments were put in moderation. In the not so wild west world of online comments, better to be safe than sorry. I wasn’t sure they were libellous, as many people have scattered these vague allegations without being specific, which is why I called him on it. Too gutless to respond, which just proves they are just that, scuttle-but. Drop a piece of crap and leave. ll he needed was a link to back them up.

    But, it would be perhaps better in the future to indicate if comments have been deleted or put in moderation so that we can know what is going on.

    Yes, a lot of housekeeping, I know. Just floating the idea ;)

  136. That’s a good idea Tom – just a comment on the blog to say that a particular comment has been placed in moderation pending blomaster approval (or deleted if that is the case).

  137. Bacchus,

    Hardly melodramatic when one has spent a good deal of one’s time replying to posts only to find that those posts have been deleted without so much as a beg your pardon.

    My point is that AFTER I had replied to posts, that posts were deleted and not just one, but several.

    Basic good manners would have said, apologies, but posts have been deleted pending legal consultation. Instead of having one sitting like a shag on a rock.

    Any apology? Nope, none.

    Pip as Chief Admin now obviously has control of what is posted and what is not posted.

    It’s not the way that I would run a blog, but that’s up to Miglo and Pip how they want to run it.

  138. Don’t worry too much about it, Antony. Deletions are a fact of blogging life. Very little of what we say online is important enough to warrant carving in stone. If Miglo decides there’s no problem, he can reinstate the comments. If there’s a continuity issue, so be it. Better that than have the blog exposed to possible legal problems, in which case everybody is the worse off. The Cafe is a better blog than some, where deletions are made simply to “protect” the sensibilities of particular favoured commenters. …Yes, Rat-Features (mod at another blog), I’m looking at YOU.

  139. Tom R, last time the MSM published them, they found themselves having to apologize.

    Bolt has been trying for months to get them off the ground, once again with no luck.

    scaper, do you ask yourself. why?

    How do you know the PM wrecked the marriages. That is a strong thing to say.

    Maybe the wife, or even the husband had something to do with it.

    Maybe the marriages where already over.

    It is rare for outsiders to wreck a happy marriage.

    At the end of the day, it is no ones business except those involved.

  140. Here is one which was censored..

    Submitted on 2012/07/18 at 1:47 pm

    Wife, home maker, mother, astute business woman, honest, not a thief and not a home wrecker.

    If you’re going to censor comments such as these, then melodramatic or not Cafe Whispers is a dead in the water.

  141. Antony, that is your name isn’t it? I’m sorry that you felt like a shag on a rock; that wasn’t my intention.

    All I did was protect the blog until, as I’ve already stated, Migs, the owner of the blog, has had a look at what was posted.

    I’m sorry that you’re under a misapprehension as to my status here. i am not and don’t claim to be, “Chief Admin”

    For the record, this is also completely barking mad…
    It’s not the way that I would run a blog, but that’s up to Miglo and Pip how they want to run it.

    For the last time, I was just protecting this blog.

  142. scaper, I have recently has the chance of a relationship with a man who marriage is over, but the live under the same roof.

    If I took up the offer, would have I been the marriage wrecker. I suspect in your eyes, the answer is yes.

    Yes, people can continue to live together long after the relationship is dead. I have a daughter in this position. They have two young daughters, happy to drift on with how things are. They do not dislike each other.

    I suspect, if either found someone new, this situation would be bought to a head.

  143. Antony, @ 3.44pm, that wasn’t the worst of them.

    As per Catching up’s comment @ 3.48pm, it doesn’t pay to carry on about “home wreckers”. It’s a slippery slope..

  144. Cuppa, perhaps I was a bit spoilt, the Cafe having set the standard. As you say “deletions are made simply to “protect” the sensibilities of particular favoured commenters.” I suspect that this is what has happened in this case. Pip has been made Commander in Chief and is clearly in Miglo’s ear, or something similar.

    Never have I known this blog to start censoring comments, but it happened this morning. I should imagine that Miglo and Pip have decided on a different format of blog, and fair enough. I guess that that it was the free spirit of this blog which made it so appealing, therefore today’s mega censorship, and for no particular reason has made it very disappointing.

  145. Pip @3.52pm Antony, @ 3.44pm, that wasn’t the worst of them. Pip don’t treat me like a fool, I saw all of the comments before you trashed them.

    How about this one: Submitted on 2012/07/18 at 1:56 pm

    No one is innocent when it comes to adultery. Emerson left his wife and kids on Xmas eve…lovely Xmas present!

    You trashed how many comments?

  146. “Antony”, please untangle those knickers..
    Please accept my apology for not stating that i had placed three comments into moderation… there was barely time for that before the complaints began…

    This is not true.

    Cuppa, perhaps I was a bit spoilt, the Cafe having set the standard. As you say “deletions are made simply to “protect” the sensibilities of particular favoured commenters.” I suspect that this is what has happened in this case. Pip has been made Commander in Chief and is clearly in Miglo’s ear, or something similar.

    This is not true, your imagination has run away with you..

    I should imagine that Miglo and Pip have decided on a different format of blog, and fair enough

    Antony for the record, there is not now nor ever has been a “Miglo and Pip”, and anyone who says otherwise is wrong, lying in fact!

    :”Mega censorship”. Nope. Just protecting the blog..

    As it happens, I have a life outside of the Cafe and don’t have time to spend all day every day here at the Cafe to be the “Commander in Chief”…

  147. Ok, I think we’ve now all got that now. Pip is now the Chief Administrator of this blog and everything which is posted now has to pass by her scrutiny.

    Therefore obviously, it’s goodbye from me. It looks as if I’m now unwanted and unloved..sigh..

    Two years and over 160 posts, which BTW Migs is more than you have written.

  148. Min and Antony, you are being very silly. Min your contributions to the Cafe are very much appreciated. Now. Please. Calm. Down.

  149. Pip, bullshizzer. I have after 160 posts and 2 years been downgraded to author from Admin. And that is my thank you. The secret emails about how I am nasty and manipulative. The constant snipes about me.

  150. There is only so much which one can take. The nastiness, the secret emails. And you know who you are. I have good friends telling me all which is being said.

    Want to destroy the blog? Then you’ve done it. Success is yours.

  151. As I said, I have no problem wit comments like those going to moderation. They are skating very close to the edge. Scaper is making allegation about somebody that he knows he cannot support. Allegations that he knows, when made by one of the most litigious companies in the country, ran like chicken little when the spectre was turned back on them.

    I honestly don’t blame Pip for doing what was done, but, as I said, I would like to see acknowledgement of the action taken.

    Having said that, it is also true that comments have been deleted here previously in rather cavalier fashion, something that I am not altogether comfortable with. I think today’s episode is a bit different.

    . It looks as if I’m now unwanted and unloved..sigh.

    Not by all Min. In fact, not by any I reckon if we took a vote. ;)

  152. Pip, as you are now Chief Admin..better check on the spam, there are currently 53 items to sift through..just in your spare time..

  153. Hi one and all! I’ve been tied up at physio and check-up most of today, but I saw that comment about the PM earlier this am. If I’d had time I would have asked Migs to moderate it too! So I’m glad to come back and find that someone else has acted. So let’s wait for Migs to decide now that it’s in moderation.

    Reading this thread through since then I’m sorry that some people don’t seem to like the slant of this blog which I love because is decidedly pro left and progressive and endeavours to encourage decent debate. I often think that Migs is too tolerant but it seems to work out well most of the time. But if comparatively new visitors to the site really offend the general p.o.v. here I think our blog master should step in, whether or not it’s legal or illegal to print.

    Most of us write here because we are strong Julia Gillard supporters. She has enough to contend with the lies and slander from enemies on the right and the Murdoch media without having her friends in the left leaning blogosphere demean her too.

    For all my limited access over the past weeks I’d say that Scaper and Antony G you are comparatively new on the scene here, so if you don’t like us all trying to maintain the positive tone of our Cafe go find somewhere else to comment or set up your own blog.

  154. Scaper, not your fault. I am clearly off this blog as with Pip as Admin Supremo and me downgraded to author, then this is not the sort of blog which I envisaged when Migs and Nasking and I set this up together.

    I envisaged a blog where everyone irrespective of their politics would be free to comment. Never have either Migs nor I ever deleted comments, instead we chose to tackle these people..

    However, it appears that this has now all changed with Pip taking over the role of Admin of this blog.

    I wish her wish in her role as Administrator..hang in there girl, it’s only 8hrs a day.

  155. I’ve been tied up at physio

    You’ll have to give me the name of your physio there patriciawa ;)

  156. Scaper, not your fault.

    Well, I’ll put a little of it there, unless he can back up his slurs?

  157. Actually, Tom R, his name is David, and he is a delightful young man whose family fled from El Salvador at the height of the war. He is very proud of his heritage and the current health achievements there, which are all about using a very limited budget to concentrate on preventative programs, and has resulted he tells me in fantastic improvements in all sorts of areas.

    We talked about boat people and Julia Gillard’s guts! Left each other with the salutation. Venceremos!

  158. Patricia and..

    I’d say that Scaper and Antony G you are comparatively new on the scene here, so if you don’t like us all trying to maintain the positive tone of our Cafe go find somewhere else to comment or set up your own blog.

    Patricia, scaper is an old mate from the days when we were all on Tim Dunlop’s Blogocracy. From there, scaper also was one of the crew on reb and Joni’s Blogocrats. We have all been sparing partners for over five years..us, the old crew.

    It was Tim Dunlop helped scaper set up his blog..therefore anyone who tries to make fun of him will have to get past me to do so.

    Indeed Patricia, wixxy and I are about to do so..and fare thee well to the sniping and the nastiness, the backyard emails.

  159. i was quite saddened to see the disintegration of this wonderful place which i discovered again after 3 long years of blog-isolation.

    i have long know quite a few people on this blog, have agreed with most and sparred with a few worthy individuals, including scaper.

    i have never known scaper to make slanderous or offending remarks… he is one of the righties who has coherently made his arguments, usually supported by evidence (which might have been mis-quoted, but hat’s not his fault)

    having said that, if we recall, the reason tim got tired of blogocracy was BECAUSE of the too much censorship stance of news.com.au.

    i think we are all adults here and should learn not to personalise comments made by someone of different ideologies… if we do that, we are no better than right wing conservatives who allow no voice of dissent.

    the whole “liberal” tag comes with an ability to “tolerate” – be it someone’s race, religion OR “views”

    please, please do not let this wonderful place self-destruct….

    for the admin/moderators… i think a comment that is not directly personal in its attack, and aimed at another blogger on THIS site, it should be published…

    if you do not believe in the content of the post, by all means argue it… but don’t *delete* it… isn’t that what the fun of blogging is all about?

    Lekhni, peace out!

  160. Lekhni, white light and blessings to thee also.

    That is what has been happening, the nastiness, the emails behind other’s backs..quite distressing when other alerted me to these.

    As per Lekhni

    if you do not believe in the content of the post, by all means argue it… but don’t *delete* it… isn’t that what the fun of blogging is all about?

    Lekhni, peace out!

    Again, love and white light to thee..

  161. Lekhni and i was quite saddened to see the disintegration of this wonderful place which i discovered again after 3 long years of blog-isolation. Who knows that what the future might hold, I would hope that it might be return to a better place, a return to Darling Harbour. That would be my hope.

  162. Lekhne, you know what gets me these days? On left blogs some think I’m a right winger on vice versa I’m a soft leftie. It’s tough in the middle.

  163. also, scaps, people have forgotten i think the basic human characterisitic of having different views and agreeing to disagree…. i for one don’t like the tags of left OR right… there are some things i believe in which are categorised as “left”, some as “right”…. i would not like to be tagged as either…

    what i do know is i expect TOLERANCE of my views and ideologies, whether someone agrees or not, and am willing to extend the same courtesy to others… within a social, democratic context.

    most people (sadly, a lot of so-called lefties) have gotten into the “my way or the highway” mode and it saddens me, i thought the primary quality a true liberal had (not Liberal) was one of acceptance… @ blogrocracy, this was so… here – i haven’t been here long enough to judge…

  164. Lekhni Adelaide CW
    July 18, 2012 @ 6:39 pm

    scaps, whatever be yr stand, u defend it worthily…

    Absolutely. We do back some years and we know how Tim Dunlop supported scaper. Anyone who thinks that they have the right to delete his comments from this blog, well this blog can go get f*cked.

    When Miglo and Nasking asked me to set up this blog, it was how everyone could have a voice. The censorship of this blog is now overwhelming.

  165. ???????????????????? Censorship? Re one offensive comment?
    Nastiness? Backyard emails? What on earth is this all about?

  166. Scaper is not a newcomer. Hes been on blogs here for 5 or 6 years.

    Newer ones don’t know much history.

  167. patricia, Min is banging on about this and accusing me of

    Nastiness? Backyard emails? What on earth is this all about?

    I don’t know what she means by nastiness.
    If they exist at all they are not mine!

    If she actually cares about Cafe Whispers, she’ll stop Now.

  168. Pip, Pip, stop now. What about those emails behind my back, your secret emails which others alerted me to. Why was I downgraded from Admin after 2 years and 160 posts…and you had nothing to do with this? Michael had always told me that the blog was ours, yet you convinced him otherwise.

    I quit. The blog is all yours. Miglo is all yours.

  169. Pip, I suggest you stop immediately. You have done enough damage to this blog via deleting posts. People have been questioning why. If you and Miglo want to run the blog your own way, then fair enough.

    As above, I quit.

    Your nasty emails to me were quite enough. Your emailing Miglo saying that I was going to close down the blog was quite enough.

    I quit.

  170. Migs, on issues of Intellectual Property rights. At your earliest convenience I would like copies of my 160+ posts. These actually do belong to me.

  171. Min,
    none of this nonsense should be on this blog but if you’ve been busily emailing all and sundry about your vivid imaginings, I have the right to set the record straight..

    I have your voice on the answering machine saying that you would close down the blog… remember… , that is the only “nasty” thing I repeated back to Miglo… it’s his blog, and no-one else can close it down. Could that have something to do with your downgrading? I honestly don’t know about that.

    My email to you asking you to stop phoning me… 18 calls in two hours was too much…. it wasn’t nasty… it was straightforward. Remember. I do.

    I’ve hardly been on the blog for a couple of months because my daughter had surgery, and you can forget your stupid Miglo and Pip meme… it';s nothing more than a figment of your imagination.

    Now go and have a Bex and a good lie down.

  172. This is what I would rather talk about.

    scaper you might have problems with the PM. Many of us do not. Her love life is her own business. You have no idea of what really occurred.

    Adultery is a old fashion term. Most today, know better than to apportion blame. You do not really know why Emerson left on Christmas Eve. Maybe he was given his marching orders. Who knows and whose business is it.

    The other allegations come up regularly. The have never been substantiated. Last time they reared their ugly head, the Australian was forced to print a formal apology.

    Maybe that is why they are ignoring the allegations, rumours and innuendo this time. Once bitten twice shy.

    I would be surprised if anyone here were not aware of the stories.

    I would like to ask, what you hope to achieve by keep bringing up the allegations. You have been doing so, since Bolt began on his site.

    There is no explanation for it. It must have been a bump on the head, or drugs. How else to explain the speech the Opposition Leader Tony Abbott made to the Heritage Foundation in Washington?
    Admittedly Abbott was speaking to the converted in his outpouring of conservative love – the Heritage Foundation is a leading thinktank of the right in America – but there are parts of his effusion that simply don’t add up either in the sum total of Abbott the politician, or Abbott the interpreter of history and social affairs.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/abbotts-seeing-stars-and-stripes-all-right-20120718-229y8.html#ixzz20xw4Zv5l

  173. Pip,

    And what of my “vivid imaginings” might you be referring to. Let me guess, Sydney and Darling Harbour..your jealousy was quite vivid.

    You emailed me saying Sorry, it was left in drafts. Only a day prior you apologised for not replying.

    Get a grip..how could I have closed down the blog.

    Therefore instead of picking up the phone and asking me, instead you chose to go sniping behind my back and backmouthing me

    Have I ever badmouthed you? Answer: never. Migs..have I ever badmouthed Pip?

    Clearly this is the end of the blog and you have Pip and the badmouthing and the backyard emails to thank.

  174. TRUCE EVERY ONE. ENOUGH DIRTY LAUNDRY BEEN AIRED.

    Get back to the real business of the site.

  175. scaps, whatever be yr stand, u defend it worthily

    Actually, no he doesn’t. He hasn’t provided anything to support his pathetic allegations. It is typical of him. Make a ridiculous claim, then ignore it.

    Chicken shit I call it.

  176. Why can’t she accept the judges decision.

    Kathy Jackson is appealing the orders to put the HSU into administration that were set down by Justice Geoffrey Flick in the Federal Court last month.

    Ms Jackson is appealing all of the orders made by Justice Geoffrey Flick last month and her lawyers are seeking to expedite the appeal process or have the judge’s orders stayed, the Federal Court heard on Wednesday……………..

    On Wednesday, Ms Jackson’s lawyer, Mark Robinson, told Justice Arthur Emmett his client had been ‘blamed for the dysfunction of the union’.

    Ms Jackson is seeking to keep her position as executive president of the state union.

    The court heard there were concerns about public access to ‘scandalous material’ contained in the appeal papers, but Mr Robinson said this was material his client had not been allowed to put before Justice Flick.

    That was a ‘denial of fair procedure’, he said, adding: ‘It’s material we would put before the court for review.’

    Mr Robinson said they had asked the administrator to stop this ‘process of re-elections and rewriting the rules’……………………….

    http://bigpondnews.com/articles/National/2012/07/18/HSU_administration_appeal_by_Jackson_773141.html

  177. According to the lady, she is the only one that is innocence. Everyone, and I mean everyone else is in the wrong.

    ‘All of us should not have been sacked when we haven’t done the wrong thing.’

    Ms Jackson confirmed she was also seeking to take back her position, saying ‘I’ve done nothing wrong’.

    ‘What I want to get out of this appeal is to show people, particularly members of the HSU, that we haven’t done the wrong thing,’ she said.

    http://bigpondnews.com/articles/National/2012/07/18/HSU_administration_appeal_by_Jackson_773141.html

  178. Cu, thanks for the link. He really excelled with this bit.

    First, (and it’s hard to select which should be first), there is this, taken from a transcript of his speech on his website: “English-speaking countries have beckoned to people everywhere, especially in troubled times, harkening to the immortal words inscribed on the Statue of Liberty: give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses, yearning to breathe free.”

    The remarks were presaged in the context of the quest for freedom, which is fair enough, and Australia is an ideal and example of multiculturalism at work, but the sting in the tale is the speaker. Tony Abbott cites one of the most famous phrases in history about refugees as a beacon to which to aspire for a country? Make sure all the asylum seekers heading our way for a better life get a copy.

    And then there’s this: “The United States and Australia are separate legal entities but few Australians would regard America as a foreign country. We are more than allies, we’re family. Around the world we seek no privileges, ask no favours, crave no territory.”

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/abbotts-seeing-stars-and-stripes-all-right-20120718-229y8.html#ixzz20y1HN2ZO

  179. Different slant on what the media has been pushing all day. That is that the PM handouts has gone down the throats of those pokie machines. Good story or should I say myth.

    The article in today’s AFR (also covered here in The Age), “Pokies swallow carbon tax compo”, has certainly caused a furore. The article suggests that the government’s recent carbon tax compensation payments have been largely fed into the nation’s 200,000 poker machines. I have no doubt this is true, to a degree. But there are a couple of massive inaccuracies that must be clarified and corrected.

    The claim is based on recent figures from the Queensland Office of Liquor and Gaming Regulation, that show a 7% rise in poker machine spending in May this year and an almost 12% rise in June. This is linked to the clean energy payments, or “carbon tax compo”, that started in May.

    Again, I agree that many people would have fed their payments straight into their local pub or club’s poker machines. But don’t for a moment think that this is, as has been suggested, a “spike” in poker machine spending in Queensland.

    The reality is even more frightening. Queensland’s poker machine spending has increased EVERY month, on a year-by-year basis, for the past two years. That’s 24 CONSECUTIVE months of increased poker machine expenditure.

    This is not a spike in spending… it’s a trend…

    http://www.cyenne.com/discussion/dont-blame-carbon-tax-compo-this-isnt-a-spike-its-a-trend/

  180. Pip and your words are on my answering machine

    Oh really, are they. Are they in relation to which question?

    I believe that you did the rounds spreading the word one and sundry. I had several emails to this effect.

    Yet the day after you emailed me saying Sorry, for the delay my email was accidentally left in drafts.

    How very very creepy..some strange message..and immediately Pip jumps onto the email to suck up to Miglo and to demand that Min be downgraded from Admin to author. Job well done, it’s all yours.

    I don’t think that I have to justify myself. I helped set up this blog 2 years ago, it was Michael, Nick and myself. I have written over 160 posts. I am now being bullied out of leaving this blog.

  181. Protocol. When one is overseas, one does not discuss negative issues, One does not challenge the government. One talks up the country, not down.

    Opposition leader Tony Abbott has backed away from promising to restore defence spending under a coalition government.

    Mr Abbott, in Washington for the US-Australia leadership dialogue, says the important thing is not to compromise defence capability.

    ‘I don’t say it’s impossible to find efficiencies in defence and frankly all of us want all elements of government to be as efficient as possible,’ he’s told Sky News.

    ‘But the last thing a self-respecting country in a strategically, sometimes difficult, environment would want to do is put at risk its defence capability.’…..

    http://bigpondnews.com/articles/TopStories/2012/07/18/Abbott_to_seek_advice_on_defence_budget_773126.html

  182. abbot pandering to the extreme right in the US is nothing new… however, please please mr abbott, do not include me in a family that contains GWB! and i do consider the US a foreign country… they don’t speak english there… well not any english one can understand!

  183. Tom R,

    Chicken shit I call it. Chicken shit and all. I don’t think that is why Admin Pip should have deleted his comments. However, that’s Admin Pip’s call seeing she is now in charge of this blog.

  184. Tom R
    JULY 18, 2012 @ 8:00 PM
    scaps, whatever be yr stand, u defend it worthily

    Actually, no he doesn’t.

    just because you don’t agree with a POV does not make it wrong….

    if scaper does not back up his arguments with hard data, that is HIS weakness in presenting an argument.

    i don’t see scaper taking offence when we call abbott a headless, brainless idiot/or any other name we please… so why should we take offence if he puts forth a view he has of julia… i believe the idea of a blog like this is that is his prerogative…

    one does not have to agree to his view… nor will it make ms gillard an adulteress for that matter….

    or r u suggesting that we can call TAB any number of names because he is a man and no-one must speak negatively of ms gillard?

  185. These are from Iran and Syria. I imagine that will be the next wave.

    Several Indonesian military officers have been arrested after being caught escorting 41 asylum seekers to the south-west Java coast.

    A senior police intelligence source has told the ABC that five military officers, in uniform but believed to be unarmed, were guiding a convoy of asylum seekers to the coast.

    They were travelling in minibuses and other vehicles when they were intercepted by port police early this morning.

    Police say the asylum seekers are from Iran and Syria and were intending to board a boat bound for Christmas Island

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-07-18/asylum-seekers-intercepted-with-military-escort/4138902?height=100&ratio=1×1&width=100

  186. Union boss Kathy Jackson has launched an appeal against a Federal Court decision to place the scandal-plagued East branch of the Health Services Union into administration, arguing the judge displayed apprehended bias against her.
    Armed with new lawyers and a new barrister, Ms Jackson wants the full Federal Court to review last month’s decision to appoint retired judge Michael Moore as administrator of both the state union, HSUeast, and the federal organisation, HSU East branch……………………

    and this is what iut is all about.

    In court this morning, Ms Jackson’s barrister, Mark Robinson, SC, said his client wanted an affidavit detailing allegations against other HSU officials to be on the record.
    In the original hearing, Ms Jackson agreed to withdraw it after Justice Flick said he would not seek to find fault or blame.
    Mr Robinson said he would apply for the appeal hearing to be expedited or, if that was not possible, for the scheme of administration to be stayed until the appeal could be heard.
    Ms Jackson wants her position as executive president of the state union to be reinstated. She says only the offices in NSW and the ACT should be vacated, with the exception of Wollongong-based councillor Ted Hinge.
    She also singled out Victorian-based official Stuart Miller, saying his position should be vacated.
    Mr Moore should be removed as administrator, to be replaced by Jeffrey Phillips or someone else, she said.
    A further ground of appeal is her submission that Justice Flick did not have the power to demerge the union.
    Outside the court, Ms Jackson said she was self-funding the appeal because she was “not allowed” to put her case during the original hearing.
    “It’s about getting a proper administration in place,” she said. “I don’t have an issue with the administration, what I have an issue with is how they have gone about it and all of us should not have been sacked when we hadn’t done the wrong thing.
    “I have been denied natural justice.”
    But acting HSU national president Christopher Brown said Ms Jackson was attempting to “frustrate” the scheme of administration put in place on June 8.
    “It’s an expensive exercise, wasting members’ money and she is doing it for her own self-serving purposes,” he said.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/jackson-appeals-against-hsu-decision-20120718-229ei.html#ixzz20yB9tXDw

    Where does she get the money from to appeal.

  187. To be honest, I am sick and tired of all the badmouthing against me. If you want to be specific, what exactly is it which I did wrong? Come on..tell me, what did I do wrong…my crime was what? Just a hint or a clue would do.

    What caused me from being downgraded from Admin to author..what exactly was my crime?

    I note that Pip has deleted a few of her comments.

    It’s quite sickening, all the secret emails and for what purpose? Revenge?

    As stated goodbye. This blog has turned nasty and vindictive and not a place where I want to be.

    Miglo you now have Pip as your Chief Admin..Pip, don’t ever expect a thank you, I certainly never received one.

  188. so why should we take offence if he puts forth a view he has of julia

    Well, it was more than a view, it was a pretty unambiguos statement, and, even if that is all it is, I am calling him out to show why he would hold such a view. Or else, it is just slander, and he has been called out for, and, if he doesn’t mind living with the tag of someone who lies to slander people opposed to his ‘views’, then so be it. It is his call.

    Making statements about someone that declares that they have partaken in illegal activity. I call bullshit on it. And if he either doesn’t want to retract it, or back it up, then he will simply be labelled a bullshit artist. It is his call.

  189. Indeed, Mo! Cu, do you think the public can see through Ms Jackson now? The media are still pretty hands off in their reporting of her histrionics and protestations off innocence in the face of judicial rulings against her (even the judge is biassed!). I notice that Craig Thomson rates not one mention these days. They must be pulling their heads in for fear of renewed litigation from him as all this other stuff comes out.

  190. Yes Tom. The Abbott/Gillard comparison was comparing apples and pears.

    Jackson is carrying out a diversion as the spotlight got turned on her and revealed much of the mud she was slinging was hers, and she didn’t like that spotlight one bit. Well done to you know who for putting the spotlight on Jackson.

  191. I was just thinking of a sometimes mate of mine. He on occasions used to delete his own comments, especially the morning after. Not much damage done, but creepy at Cafe Whispers. I count so far at least 20 comments deleted today. I bet they’re not in trash, they’ve been deleted, as in permanently. This is obviously the blogmasters business but given that I was the victim of the mega deleting this afternoon I thought to point it out. Just watch it, some delete, then delete permanently so that you won’t know that they’ve been deleting. If it was me, I would be downgrading everyone to author status until you work out exactly who has been doing the deleting.

  192. CU @ 8.40

    “where does she get the money from”
    At one point I read that Jackson said she was privately funding the litigation. The head of the HSU said that Jackson was wasting union funds.
    I reckon Jackson looks at Court proceedings as an investment, she definitely needs to win back her ‘ownership” of all the funds and the accounting practices she has used to justify all the union expenditure.

  193. patricawa @ 5.29

    hear, hear.
    if i want to read smut about our wonderful PM i can go to any right wing blog or the msm.

  194. I think it is time for all to shut up. There are three comments in moderation. Migs is aware. It is his problem.

    It is Migs site. The blog master makes the rules. If one does not agree, they do not bother visiting. Yes, one is a guest.

    It was not really what was said, but the venom it was worded in that got under my skin. Some here do not mind. Others do. That is life. If one puts up such comments, they cannot complain about the backlash.

    I am sorry this has happened, as it has allowed scaper to get the message over well and truly. One he has been hinting at for weeks.

    How he thought we would be interested, in stale discredited news is beyond me.

    Three comments that all know what was in them. Time to move on.

  195. I notice that Craig Thomson rates not one mention these days.

    Remarkable,isn’t it. Actually, not really.

    What I find most remarkable is that ACA has apparently got away scott free with their completely fabricated slur on Thomson in regards to the ‘hooker’ it turned out they didn’t have. After days of innuendo and ongoing smears from the opposition and their media, when it all came out as a lie, it was over in a day.

    That kind of politically motivated stitch up by a major media outlet should carry major repurcussions.

    Instead, we got a whimper, and it is gone.

  196. patriciawa @8,53

    isn’t it funny, still no charges against Thomson,
    Then at some point in the future he will be able to take action but we will probably never hear how much he ends up winning in defamation from the media, as the media will want to keep it secret..

  197. Patricia her aim is to get her slanderous allegation into the public arena.

    I cannot but believe it is vengeance she is after.

    If not, she knows she is in trouble and is building up a defence by accusing everyone else.

    I call it paranoia when one believe everyone is wrong. When everyone is out to get you.

  198. Too true Tom. The sooner we get Canadian/Ireland type media laws in the country the better, and it has to be done before Abbott gets into power.

    If he repeals them in government then the people will know he’s the puppet controlled by the media at the behest of big business.

  199. Tom R

    Is there a time limit on defamation? If not his legal advisors may just be advising to wait. The the whole McLiarmont story with ThomPson credit card. licence, and brothel receipt, splashed acoss newspapers and led to radio and tv stories, just how much will that cost?

  200. Well Sue, he will have no trouble paying off those mortgages that this matter has cause him to take out.

    All accusations come from Jackson.

    Even at the hearings this week, Nasser said his findings were not forensic. They cannot be.

    There has been no charges laid, because lawyers generally have a different perspective from those who draws up reports or police investigations.

    One has to have evidence that backs up what is alleged.

    Both the FWA and the police said that the charges were imminent. How many weeks, months was that ago,

  201. I think the union meant that she was costing them money, as they have to mount a defence against her allegations.

    This matter warrants a Royal Commission, nothing less, It need to include the FWA.

  202. And against whom were the charges to be laid CU? Who’s to say they’re talking about Thomson – perhaps Williamson, Jackson or her “minder” Bellano?

  203. CU

    “the charges were imminent” we heard that in May. But nothing and no complaining by the Liberals, which says more than anything else. For months we had the Coalition demanding his resignation and charges now absolutely nothing.

  204. Time to move on

    I’ll do that once scraper either provides some support for the statement, or retracts it.

    Allowing people to post lies, and just let them go because it is apparently ‘robust debate’ is bullshit. That is gutless debate. And it is what he is counting on.

    Screw him. He wants to post dribble, support it somehow. After all, isn’t that what blogs and debate are about, challenging peoples views?

    Dropping vile allegations, and then ignoring them, is the height of cowardice. I have been informed above that scraper is not like that.

    Considering he refused to back up another statement he made the other day, and,so far, has refused to back these ones up, I am beginning to doubt that ascertion.

  205. Noticed no complaints now on how long it is taking,

    There is still the question of Senator Brandis and the NSW minister in this.matter.

    Police say no case.

    Brandis goes higher.

    Presto, a police inquiry in two states.

    There is still the inquiry into the FWA to come.

  206. One can only surmise Bacchus, but I am guessing so. Since he won’t backup the accusation, we can’t be sure.

  207. Bacchus, I believe that Admin Pip has been deleting a number of comments. In fact I’ve had numerous emails today advising me of this.

    As stated, that’s not the way that the blog has been run during my 2 years. But obviously as Migs has now decided that Pip take over the running of the place, then the call is all her’s.

    During my time, deletions were always a last resort. I managed 2 years and never deteled any comments. However, apparently Pip is now the new Admin for this blog, then good luck to her.

    I wish the Miglo/Pip team all the best for the future. But don’t expect me to be here.

  208. CU
    that whole Brandis and NSW police minister matter. will that ever be dealt with properly, probably not as the msm has too much involvement in swallowing the lie.

  209. To be fair Min, if it was my blog, I’d have deleted most of the comments from both you AND Pip on this thread today. This sort of $#!t has no place on an open blog…

  210. Tom,

    If that is the case, he can’t backup the allegations. Even the OO, with all their legal might, have very quickly shied away from this…

  211. Tom R
    go for it

    As an aside I have the feeling that the Right is trying to attack the PM through the blogs. Afterall when Abbott made his speech to his party, which was then served up to the Press about “she won’t lie down and die”. The PM is using those words as a shield of honour, which once again Abbott misjudged. So its back to basics, the papers hint but will not headline the stories, so instead get your willing troopers to storm across the internet, smut, slander, whatever it takes. Just get it printed and talked about and spread. She, she ,”she ” that term can not be linked with honour “she” must be derogative.

  212. Did Scaper comment about JG shagging Emerson and him leaving his wife and kids on Christmas Eve? Or did he comment about a unionist that JG was shagging who stole a bunch of union money, laundered it through accounts that she set up, and spent a bunch of it renovating her house? Or did he comment on the bloke she’s shagging now, who if he ever visited his home town would be tarred, feathered, and ridden out on a rail.

    Whatever, the subjects are most unsavory and it’s best they were deleted.

  213. Bacchus, a fair number of posts have been deleted, which I don’t think is right. That’s crappy tactics. I think that if you have something to say then you don’t delete the things which you don’t like, so as to make yourself the shining little angel. Once you start doing those sort of things on a blog, then the entire integrity of the blog is undermined. For example, my comments left there in suspended animation while deleting one’s own comment. It’s be done before, but never before on this blog, ever to my knowledge. Sad…


  214. Not having seen scaper’s offending comments that started all this, would I be correct in assuming they were related to this?”

    But he went further and added a few choice words of his own, such as adulteress.

    It was not one of his best efforts.

  215. The OO back away for a good reason. The last time they were forced to issue a formal apology. Bolt is pushing it, but his paper has not pick up on it.

    It has been going on for weeks.

  216. Similar to that bullshit comment of yours James… You forgot the legal “out” – alleged. You’ve still got a long way to go in that wanna-be lawyer degree I see ;)

  217. Sorry, there are two in trash, I am sure the person involved put then there.

    There are three in waiting. Those belong to scaper.

    No numerous numbers deleted.

    I do not know why I bother.

  218. All the Right (should be called the Wrong) have is:

    smear
    spin
    slogans
    sour grapes
    spite
    lies
    complicit media

  219. And James of M
    just confirms my comment.

    Precisely. It is all they have, Unfortunately, there is a media who love to repeat it for them. Check Bushfire Bills comment I linked to earlier.

    Meanwhile, tabot is overseas, talking down our defense force. If a Labor politician went overseas and did the same, you could just imagine the outrage they would have. We won’t see any of that for their boy tabot.

  220. Bacchus, it appears James has gained little from his studies. This comment over on reb’s site confirms this:

    And Pip shagged Miglo…..

    Perhaps he’d like to produce some evidence.

  221. Just trying to make sense of it all and throwing in some inyourendo….

    Don’t take it too seriously.

  222. James, I cannot speak on behalf of Pip, but I can assume that she’d be as unimpressed with that allegation as much as I was.

  223. tom, cu, sue…

    that is all the Right ALWAYS had… they cannot and have never argued policy! their defence in the last election was also always about Rudd bad, Howard great… Rudd going to stripper oh the shame… etc…

    any human will always fight with their strongest weapons and coherence and policy are NOT one of the LNP’s strengths…

    along with their blinded media pals, disinformation, slander and fear mongering are…

    BUT —–

    i do believe these can be intelligently and decisively quashed by intelligent folks like us, without having to delete them. if they are slanderous or using offensive language star ******** the offending words out of the post, that way this whole mess could have been avoided…

    IMHO

  224. Tom R
    and where does Abbott go next ? Is it china? I did read there was to be a delegation of coalition members led by Truss and Bishop to China.
    It is hard to imagine it getting worse than that for Australia’s reputation, except of course if they all decided to go to Indonesia.

  225. Yes Sue, he’s off their next to put his foot further in his gob. Should be interesting, considering he just slagged them off today as well.

    The guys a national embarassment

  226. Well come on. Someone has to be shagging someone. The uniformity of opinion here suggests there must be something to stir up the interest…

    “We love Kevin Rudd.”

    “Kevin Rudd’s a mad cnt. He’s always been a mad cnt. We love Julia.”

    What will you all do when Shorten knifes her?

  227. Well come on. Someone has to be shagging someone.

    Not necessarily. I recall you bragging about shagging yourself previously. Whatever rocks ya boat I guess.

  228. “Life”…. said Marvin the Parinoid Android….. “..don’t talk to me about life…”
    Min, …. thanks ….. :) please don’t go….. I realise there are side issues but your contibutions are highly valued here by many… and me !!!!!!!!!!!
    Migs, WTF is going on…… how stuck in the middle are you then :roll: …. just say’n
    MO, “Thanks for staying on song Cu amongst the squawking” …. bit harsh, but yeah…. enough said ;)
    CU, Patricia, … voices of reason…. true elders…. *bows*
    Pip, I have ‘great expectations’ that things will work out …. ;)
    This place is good…. life is short…… anyway as I and (most of ya’s) was say’n Tony Abbortt, what a bred and trained budgie he is…. squawk…. :D

  229. Or did he comment about a unionist that JG was shagging who stole a bunch of union money, laundered it through accounts that she set up, and spent a bunch of it renovating her house?

    Did your 1st year lecturer comment about slander and defamation and stuff like that?
    Any proof that this actually occurred, James? The facts are easily checked and nothing you wrote is borne out by the said facts.

    I have a feeling you’ve been channeling Dolt. He suffers the same disconnect with reality that you do.

    Or perhaps you’ve taken up writing fiction instead of a career in the law.

  230. MIn @1.01pm, how right you are. I recall all the screeching about Therese Rein’s wealth from a business which she built herself as opposed to Rinehart who inherited her wealth.

    Apparently, it’s OK for a woman to be wealthy if Daddy gave it to her, but not if she did the hard yards herself. And Therese Rein hasn’t been out there buying blocks of shares in the media to push her political barrow. Another sin, apparently

    Perhaps he’d like to produce some evidence.

    Migs, James doesn’t do evidence or factually based anything.

  231. James of Nth Mehico, I bow to you superiority, you come across as ‘one’ of the special ones …. some may call you a smarmy vulture, attacking when the moment is ripe, but dont you listen to them ..your just fight’n the good fight using any tactic you can…. after all its not the means its the end ….. “know what I mean Just trying to make sense of it all and throwing in some inyourendo….” in your end, oh…. smarmy vulture James of Nth Melborne your just such a legend.. but most of your breed are… but then again you knew that……hey, winna, are :roll: …… :D

  232. Lekhni @ 10:44 pm (and alluded to by other posters)

    You know the maladroit opposition has nothing to offer this country when all their supporters can come up with in their defence are waves of baseless attacks against the government and especially the PM, some thrown up repeatedly at key moments even though they have been proven false. They did this to Rudd and will do it to any leader of Labor.

    It’s all to do with propping up the obvious substantial shortcomings of their leader, as was so aptly illustrated by yet another bumbling cockeyed foray onto a world stage.

    It probably hasn’t passed your attention that the attacks on Gillard and talk of a leadership spill always come on the back of one of Abbott’s major failures or ham-fisted appearances overseas.

    This is all about protecting Abbott until after the next election. They know they’re backing the greatest dud of leader they’ve ever elected, but are stuck as they have no alternatives, that’s how empty their cupboard is in talent.

    So whenever you see a slander or crass innuendo made against Gillard just be contented in the knowledge that Abbott must have fucked up and made an idiot of himself yet again.

  233. Food for thought from Jonathan Green

    Without this avenue for engagement, is a blog still a blog? And if not, what is it?

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-07-19/green-bolt-comments/4139160

    It is a minefield out there (here?). And I commend the blog owners for even allowing us the opportunity to post here. But, hosting a blog has repercussions for the owners/hosters. It is easy to snipe from the sidelines about being ‘trigger happy’ on the deletion of comments, but, in this case, it really looks like it was done with the interest of the blog at heart. I know it is not always the case, which I am not happy about, but, considering the other benefits I find in coming here, to me, it is a relatively small price to play.

    But, as Lekhni @ 10:44 pm (and alluded to by other posters) say, I think this blog, as a community, would benefit if there was some sort of policy about deletions/moderation etc. Something that is a little clearer than that which occurs now.

    What has happened at dolts blog is the inevitable consequence of unrestrained vehemence being dog whistled to the lowest common denominator. It is also mirrored in what tabot is doing with our entire political debate, and, the recent posts to do with violent images highlighted this.

    Discussions DO get heated, that is a given. The hard question is, where do we draw the line. It must be drawn somewhere, else, we get what we have here at bolts blog, either a complete shutdown of discussion (mind you, there really wasn’t much ‘discussion’ over there anyway, just reasoned voices being abused as ‘lefties’ or ‘watermelons’), or an escalation into anarchy that will inevitably burn itself, and anything near it, to the ground.

    Personally, I think it would be opportune for those involved in the day to day running of this blog could look into this, else, we risk losing valued contributors as has been alluded to earlier. That, imo, would be a shame. As I said, I will not be one of those, as I have chosen to accept the deletion of comments, even though I am not in favour of it, as the benefits of this blog far outweigh that issue to me.

    my 2.5 cents worth ;)

  234. Mobius

    They must be expecting a colossal stuff up, as the AFR with its new Murdoch editor have —-‘Unions shift on Gillard’.
    then the Business news sites with…….’Rudd is coming’

    Forget that the Unions say the story is absolute crap.
    I don’t see the AFR criticising Abbott on his US speech.

    As to Business, they need Abbott in charge for the return of Serfchoices, how dare the Unions unite behind PM Gillard. That is just too hard a task to have to rely on Abbott having to debate and win against Gillard on conditions of employment. Better to try and undermine the PM.

  235. I don’t see the AFR criticising Abbott on his US speech.

    We won’t see that anywhere. Recall the horror that was displayed when Rudd mentioned that our inflation was an issue whilst he was LOTO overseas. It was like the end of the world. tabot bags our military, basically says it’s failing, and all we get is a national debate on the level of funding (which, it appears, had been getting out of control)

    And I haven’t seen his bagging of China get much of a play either, actually, I’ve only seen it in tweets

  236. Tom, good points. The Disclaimer I use was lifted from WordPress and anything else I’ve found on WordPress simply alludes to all admin and authors having the right to edit or delete comments.

    But . . .

    Should we be too reactionary to an isolated event?

    Scaper was free to post his comments just as Pip was free to put them in moderation, where they still sit. If I know Scaper, I don’t think he would have posted those comments if he knew the trouble they would cause.

    Must dash. Medical appointments. :(

  237. Tom R
    This morning, Grattan was asked, is there a convention of not attacking the Government policies when an Opposition leader is o/s.
    That became a bit hard for Grattan, gee it was about Abbott, Grattan didn’t really want to or wouldn’t answer truthfully, so she talked around the issue.

  238. Just thinking about Abbott attacking Australian Govt policy to the yanks

    Isn’t that a scary fact, tear up conventions, in the all out bid for power.

  239. Don’t the media love it. We now have leadershit stories that are all about other leadershit stories being wrong.

    It’s a perpetual motion machine

    Australian Council of Trade Unions secretary Dave Oliver has also rejected the report.

    “That report is plain wrong,” he said.

    “The Prime Minister came to our Congress several weeks ago and received a standing ovation for the work her Government has done in regard to jobs and protecting working conditions, and nothing has changed at all.”

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-07-19/plibersek-dismisses-report-of-union-move-against-gillard/4140086

    Here’s a thought journos, report on what is actually happening (you know, perhaps report on tabot running around the world trashing our brand) and forget about making shit up for while.

    See if that can lift your failing ‘business model’ at all?

  240. So Kathy and Michael will now be closer to their ties in NSW, does Kathy know that tony Abbott is never really at home, so it will be hard to get an invite to dinner.

    photo/1

  241. He looks like easy game Bacchus, but I prefer to debate with somebody smarter. El gordo perhaps.

  242. James, el gordo hasn’t been banned but placed in moderation. History shows that her only intent is to stir up trouble. I haven’t seen any comments from her awaiting approval though.

  243. Just rechecked and there’s nothing from el gordo awaiting moderation. It confirms she is full of shit and is only interested in stirring up trouble.

  244. The beauty of people like james/snacty is that, no matter how many strikes they get they just keep bouncing back, minds fixed, ideals in place, oblivious to all outside influences like facts and reason.

    A rather interesting place to be imo

  245. Tom R @10.46
    all our pundits in the msm would be the disagree type

    but their main authority is
    “the polls say”

  246. Funny that Wixxy “evidence” is fraud and so is totally wrong
    BUT Vexnews agrees with Wixxy, even to the point of Vexnews tracking down the Hong Kong “legal advice recipient”.

    Oh well I suppose we will just have to wait for ALL the legal proceedings

  247. The sky is still in place.

    …………The initial carbon price hike at the beginning of July seems to have been a bit of an overshoot. Perhaps the generators were being somewhat ‘conservative’ in their bidding strategy in the brave new world of carbon pricing. If so, market forces appear to be quickly pulling them back into line.
    If and when Yallourn comes back to full production, we could expect prices to drop back another $10 or so, and settle at around $50-$55 per megawatt hour. In a historical context, that’s not much more than the $47 annual wholesale price averaged over the last 10 years when adjusted to 2012 dollar terms.
    In the bigger picture, the overall impact of the carbon tax will have been significantly cushioned by the very low wholesale prices over the last few years. Those low prices reflect the general state of oversupply on the NEM as discussed in my last post.
    In spite of the issues at Yallourn, and the impost of the carbon tax, wholesale prices have not yet reached the heights of the winter of 2007, and do not look like doing so. The sky didn’t fall in 2007 and won’t be doing so now. Unless of course we have another Yallourn-like incident on the NEM.
    Wholesale prices are up, but the trend in prices since early July suggests they will stabilise at only a few dollars above the long-term average adjusted wholesale prices. And that is with the cost of the carbon tax.
    Mike Sandiford is Director, Melbourne Energy Institute at the University of Melbourne…….

    http://www.climatespectator.com.au/commentary/what-impact-has-carbon-tax-had-power-prices?&utm_source=exact&utm_medium=email&utm_content=79951&utm_campaign=kgb&modapt=commentary

  248. At last the government is going to the source of the boat trade. It might surprise some, the source is not Indonesia. They are as much of a victim as we are. That is, if one believes we are victims.

    I do not, but that is another matter.

    Australia’s overseas espionage service is waging a secret war on people-smugglers, sending teams of agents into Pakistan to disrupt the trade at its source.

    The Australian interviewed security officials in the Pakistani city of Quetta, who said ASIS agents based at the Australian high commission in Islamabad were involved in tackling the Hazara smuggling trade at its source.

    The revelation comes ahead of an address today by Australian Secret Intelligence Service director-general Nick Warner – the first public speech by a serving head of the agency in its 60 year history. He will describe how ASIS officers are now involved more directly in counter-terrorist operations, where in the past they have mainly gathered intelligence.

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/capital-circle/spies-target-people-smugglers/story-fn59nqgy-1226429599051

  249. I have located el gordo’s comment and released it. It was harmless enough.

    She was simply providing her 2.5 cents worth, so she was at fully capacity. :roll:

  250. Have you taken up your allegations with him?

    He will, once he has just re-read the chapter in ‘Legal shit 4 Dummies’ on how to ignore documents that are quite obviously there ;)

  251. Tom, I must admit that I’d prefer James to take it up with Wixxy himself, rather than use this blog as a platform to what could be construed as slander.

    Are my expectations too high, do you think. ;-)

  252. Are my expectations too high, do you think

    I thought ‘slander’ was the new ‘debate’ (sarc)

    No, not too high Migs. If he had any guts, that is what he would do, so I guess we know what will happen

  253. So let me understand this.

    It’s perfectly OK to slander and draw conclusions, often ones plucked out of thin air, about the Prime Minister, but only because the PM is Labor but worse female, and any of her ministers, but drawing conclusions from documents and ratiocinations that haven’t been refuted on someone who is attacking the government is not on.

    Yep that sounds about right for how they operate.

  254. Yep that sounds about right for how they operate.

    Don’t forget, you need to whine and whinge loudly about discussing court proceedings when documents, which have been submitted to court, and are in the public domain, are then mentioned in answer to questions.

    But before it gets to court, speculate all ya like ;)

  255. “Scaper was free to post his comments just as Pip was free to put them in moderation, where they still sit. If I know Scaper, I don’t think he would have posted those comments if he knew the trouble they would cause.”

    I agree. How do we deal with comments that cause offence to others on the site.

    These people also need to be taken into consideration.

    If scaper did not mean to cause trouble, maybe he can tell us what he hoped to achieve about his comments. Maybe he could even offer an apology, rewrite his comment not to cause offence. I believe he would know what needs to be changed, that is if he is genuine.

    It could be become practice, that comments that could cause offence, the author be asked to reword their comments. This occurs in QT.

    The comment could be posted but the offending words blacked out.

    I do not believe it should not be open go for anyone to come to any site, with the intention of causing offence.

    There needs to some mechanism that prevents comments whose only aim is to divert and disrupt the post. That is to cause trouble.

    It should be up to the blog owner to request the author to say why his comment should be publish. If deletion is the only option, reasons should be given.

    The final say should be with the owner of the blog.

    Open go is not the way to go. The reason I say this, these people keep upping the ante until action has to be taken. That is their aim. Deletion is what they want, as this then leads to the uproar we had yesterday.

    We need to have some mechanism, that forces them to take their sport elsewhere.

    Blogs need to be able to defend themselves from those out to cause trouble or lower the standard of the blogs.

    ASIO being discusses NPC

  256. And it’s not just the documents Tom but the very shaky maneuvers, like hand picking documents that would be given to the authority, let alone the current legal team (what number is this lot) attempting to skirt around having their client directly account for some questionable actions.

  257. …..your just fight’n the good fight using any tactic you can…

    Fantasyland is where James gets all his facts, LOVO. Disneyland is his political home. I believe he’s accompanying Liealot on yet another expedition to Iraq to find those WMDs so they can finally justify their illegal invasion and all the deaths they’ve caused.

    paulwello @1.21am, I’d rather they were locked IN the asylum.

    ME @7.21am, agree. Their problem is that the entire Liars Party are a bunch of duds, which problem we can lay entirely at the feet of the Lying Rodent himself, JWH.

    Tom R @9.55am, maybe even turning up at the meeting and/or reading the report wouldn’t be a bad start.

    and @12.43pm, I dispute your statement that James has ideals. I demand proof! :???:

    James, I’d suggest you’re more likely to be the fraud. You’ve made numerous statements wrt the PM and Bruce Wilson which have no basis in FACT although I doubt that you’d know one if it bit you on the bum, whereas wixxy’s statements have been carefully researched and sourced, can be easily checked for veracity and are supported by a number of other sources which have also done the research.

    Do we have to keep reminding you that Dolt’s Fairy Tales have no basis in fact at all. He couldn’t even manage to get the ethnicity of nine Aboriginal women right when a primary school kid would be capable of that most basic research.

    God help anyone who turns to you for legal advice.

    CU, very interesting reading and a poke in the eye for the doom sayers.

    It’s my late father’s birthday today. If he were alive, he’d be here fighting the good fight with us and exposing the trolls. He’d be looking at you, James.

  258. Jane, wixxy has had to be very careful about what he has written. It is clear that he has opened himself up to being sued.

    The parties has threatened to but I would be surprise if this happened.

    That is because wixxy has provided evidence for everything he has written.

    We need more like wixxy, who are willing to take on issues that they MSM are misreporting.

    Maybe Mr. Thomson is guilty, who knows. What is more certain, there are many more, guilty of serious misbehavior within the saga.

    This is one, that many politicians are not going to come out smelling of like roses.

    James, please go and discuss it with wixxy. He is always open to discuss what he has written

    That is the fair way to play the game.

  259. I stand by everything I said yesterday. Want some evidence? Could copy and paste but the blog owner has some and he could post it if he wants to.

    Hedley Thomas is onto it…he has located Wilson and is now after Blewitt. Kernohan has elaborated on the stat dec and is most cooperative. It will all eventually come out.

  260. James, who she slept with is none of our business.

    All the allegations have been raised many times. Many times they have not been substantiated.

    Last time, that is last year I believe, the Australian was forced to issue a formal apology for making the comments you have above.

    What you are alleging is based on false allegations.

    It is not the allegations you are repeating that course offence. It is the fact they have been shown to have no basis and are not fact, that is the problem.

    If you had come up with new evidence to prove truth of the allegations, that would be different.

    You have no new evidence. Therefore you are spreading, what has been shown to be lies.

  261. scaper.. I am sure if there was new evidence, the MSM would knock one another over in their attempt to publish first.

    This campaign, led by Bolt has been going on for a couple of months. I suggest it is going nowhere.

    A few disgruntled politicians, that have been found to be found wanting, is a dubious place to rely on for truth. One has to look at their agendas.

  262. Is James a practicing lawyer?

    I thought the answer to that one would be obvious from his posts Roswell. Last I heard, James was a financial adviser who is studying law (but obviously not actually learning anything ;) )

  263. oh the irony of james “demanding evidence” :lol:

    no such demands were made wrt to the “climategate” beatup of which both he and scaper were active exponents, while furthering the beatup on scientists through repeated misrepresentation and lies about the contents of stolen emails.

    imho, these acts alone place each as living, and “barracking” for the denial of reality (both wrt to agw, and hence generally), obviously preferring their “comfortable” lies to “inconvenient truths.”

    i personally think that james is probably not actually a law student, given his apparent support for “mob rule”, rather than accepting the findings of the reports and inquiries which comprehensively cleared the scientists concerned, certainly, if i am wrong, i can’t imagine any law firm would be too keen on that attitude :lol:

    both are trolls, and not worth engagement, although scaper’s delusions are occasionally mildly entertaining :cool:

  264. James, maybe the Australian having to apologize, is an indication.

    As they have been raised regularly over a number of years. Seventeen if memory serves me right, suggests they are not based on facts.

    Would the lady be PM if there was even a kernel of truth in what you are saying.

    I believe not. The media is not that generous to Labor.

    That is my evidence, commonsense.

  265. “Yes I know, “the last two decades have been hotter than any previous two decades”

    Many disagree. There was a large gathering of scientists, at Cairns recently that clearly believe that global warming is here and damaging reef.

    The ice is still melting at the poles.

    Still, you see them also as liars.

  266. Still, you see them also as liars.

    Only because James’ mates went to the GBR once and reckoned it looked OK to them :lol:

  267. I stand by everything I said yesterday. Want some evidence? Could copy and paste but the blog owner has some and he could post it if he wants to.

    As I said, gutless. I’m sure he allows links ;)

  268. Only because James’ mates went to the GBR once and reckoned it looked OK to them

    ROFL

    I still reckon Marcel Kincaid summed it up best for all of us

  269. The GBR should be dead by now shouldn’t it?
    Not according to any scientific literature, no.

  270. James of NM
    James of North Melbourne
    July 19, 2012 @ 1:12 pm

    No. It’s the absence of evidence in Wicks’ campaign. He draws conclusions in the absence of evidence, then repeats them in about 10 seperate posts. There’s nothing there.

    if James had read those posts he would be aware that Peter Wicks has forwarded his information to the Police.

  271. James, I let wixxy know that your comments were on this blog..however, I do believe that he has a full workload today.

  272. if James had read those posts he would be aware that Peter Wicks has forwarded his information to the Police.

    Didn’t a lot of people forward a lot of thing about Thomson to the Police?

    There didn’t appear to be anything there though :(

  273. Tom, Brandis didn’t have any luck.

    He didn’t have ‘the snacty factor’ ;)

    james ‘n mates will get to the bottom of it. After all, they showed those stoopid scientists a thing or two!

    We can’t see it, so it can’t happen!! ROFL

  274. We are all OK on this site, according to James and Co, as long as we focus our energy on maligning the PM. Anything else is not allowed.

    Pray do not criticize the Honorable Mr. Abbott.

    We all know he is above reproach.

  275. I was on the Sky AM Agenda program this morning with Kelly O’Dwyer, hosted by Kieran Gilbert. We talked about how Tony Abbott has taken his negativity to the US, and we discussed asylum seeker policy, including former defence chief Admiral Chris Barrie’s scathing criticism of the Liberals’ policies to turn boats around on the high seas.

    http://www.andrewleigh.com/blog/?p=2895

  276. But does this mean Australia’s defence forces are missing out on critical new equipment? No. These cuts have to be seen in the context of the last decade, in which Defence has enjoyed massive increases in spending in excess of inflation. The post-2001 years of the Howard government saw a marked uptick in capital investment, and the first two budgets from Kevin Rudd weren’t too shabby either. As a result of this, Defence saw a huge inflow of money for more than a decade.

    The ADF used that money to beef up. In the last decade or so, Australia has added two extra battalions to the regular Army, plus Abrams tanks, new helicopter gunships and Bushmaster infantry vehicles. The Navy has embarked on a huge ship-building program to construct three Hobart-class air warfare destroyers and two Canberra-class troop ships, costing well over $10 billion in total. The Air Force received 24 F/A-18 Super Hornets worth $6 billion as a backstop, while it waits for the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter to enter production. It has also bought C-17 transport planes and Wedgetail airborne early warning and control radar planes worth several billion.

    http://newmatilda.com/2012/07/19/guns-or-butter-we039ve-got-both

  277. So to argue, as Tony Abbott did in Washington, that our strategic environment is “not benign”, is disingenuous, at best. At worst, it’s simply scaremongering.

    What about the argument that Australia is not pulling its weight in the US alliance? This argument is not backed up by the facts either. Australia’s relationship with the US remains one of the closest and strongest of any of America’s allies. We stayed the course in Iraq and Afghanistan. Australia is home to many US military bases, and we will soon host more, as the US pivots to the Pacific and US Marines begin regular rotations through Darwin. If the US is really worried about its Pacific allies, it should worry about Japan, which has been regularly spending less than 1 per cent of its GDP on defence for years, in a time when its GDP has been shrinking.

    http://newmatilda.com/2012/07/19/guns-or-butter-we039ve-got-both

  278. James and el gordo share a common childish trait. After posting comments here they race elsewhere to give a running commentary of the goings on here. They must be under instructions to report back to the herd.

  279. Another great article from Ad Astra overhttp://www.thepoliticalsword.com/post/2012/07/19/Lost-Tony%E2%80%99s-Toxic-Tax-%E2%80%93-Finder-Please-Return-to-Owner.aspx at the Political Storm on Tony s Toxic Tax,

    As he said with TA out of the country, Its been a bit Quiet, hope he stays away.

  280. I’ll take your word on that, Roswell.

    James, if your only reason for coming here is to follow in the footsteps of el gordo then you might want to consider staying away.

  281. Well, he better get to making some jam as they don’t come cheap these days.

    Little Miss scaper costs a barrel of jam these days…got a confrontational attitude too. Don’t know where she got that from.

  282. Yet it has passed the media’s narrow gaze that what Abbott did in the US was give the UK, a US ally that was lauded far more by W Bush than Howard, a massive slap across the face.

    The UK has massively cut its defence forces with an announcement just a couple of weeks ago of additional 20,000 full time troops to go on top of previous savage cuts.

    So when Abbott next goes to the UK, which is unlikely as he was snubbed last time, he will really be on the nose.

    So where is the MSM on this kick in the guts by Abbott to a fellow conservative leader?

  283. Mo, it might have been an idea, if before visiting another country, Abbott at least acquainted himself with some of the policies of that country.

    If he’s driving a car over there I bet he’s driving in the left lane.

  284. And blaming Obama for the cars honking him and rightly calling him an idiot.

    It’s and example of why Abbott cannot be let loose on the world stage. He has only gotten away with this one as he’s a less than nothing opposition leader on the world stage.

    He didn’t get away with insulting Indonesia. That one is in the bank.

    If Obama wins the next election then he won’t have gotten away with his insult there either. That one is in the bank.

    Every foray onto the international stage has been him stuffing up. What would normally happen when you have a national leader who is a dill at diplomacy you send in your Foreign Minister instead of as a sidekick ready to step in. Abbott’s Foreign Minister is Bishop. I need say no more.

  285. Well, Miglo, really all I wanted to do was give myself a chuckle by reposting what I thought were probably Scaper’s disgusting smears. Call it my little protest against censorship.

    But then someone offered me a drink, another a ciggie, we got talking about kids, and you know the rest. Now it seems I’ll be looking forward to some mail from Wixxy’s lawyers. I hope so, the discovery process will be a hoot!!

    Anyhow, mustn’t outstay my welcome. Toodles.

  286. If Obama wins the next election then he won’t have gotten away with his insult there either.

    Have I missed one? I know it’s hard to keep up, particularly cos the media just don’t want to report on that (what, with imminent rolling of Gillard by June/July/August/Sept/Oct/Nov/Dec/Jan/Feb….)

    What did he say that would affect Obama?

  287. Abbott’s talk on defence cuts started as a side swipe at Obama’s cuts in that area. He was talking to an audience that had criticised Obama on that front and were actively for a “strong US military”. Of course all are being supported by large Defence contractors in the US.

  288. I’ll take your word for it, James.

    You and I have never crossed swords and I hope to keep it that way. It’s just that el gordo pisses a lot of people off and nobody wants to see her pass the baton to somebody else.

    I’d like to think you have a hell of a lot more maturity than el gordo.

  289. The ice is still melting at the poles.

    Lying bastards! Those poles will stop it at once if they know what’s good for them, CU. Never mind, Anal will get on the job and sort them out. And Peta Credlin will fashion a slogan or two to shout at them. And possibly a Convoy of Very Little Consequence to teach them a lesson.

    Min, please don’t encourage James to keep breeding. :lol:

  290. Not sure what this means.

    Australian Federal Police have forwarded parts of their criminal investigation into Speaker Peter Slipper to the Commonwealth Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP).

    Mr Slipper stood aside from his chamber duties in April after one of his former staff members accused him of sexual harassment and misusing taxpayer-funded taxi vouchers.

    He denied both allegations, but Federal Police decided to conduct an investigation into his use of travel entitlements.

    A spokeswoman says that investigation has now been finalised.

    The AFP is consulting with the Commonwealth DPP to determine whether further action should be taken.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-07-19/federal-police-finish-peter-slipper-probe/4141940

  291. It is not censorship to block scurrilous slander which smears the character of any persons.
    The demonisation of our PM by team Abbott, ably assisted media has plenty of supporters elsewhere on the web. We don’t come here to read more of it. In case you don’t know what is meant by the term demonising one can be found here. Here’s a brief summary, with a few other descriptions of the word to help you understand what is not acceptable on this site.

    Demonise – discredit – to harm someone’s reputation

    Slander – to say something about someone that is not true and is likely to damage their reputation

    Taint – to make someone seem less honest.

    Stain – if something stains someone’s reputation, character etc,

    Smear – to try to damage someone’s reputation by telling lies about them

    Cast aspersions (on)- to say or write things about someone that attack their character, work etc

    Blacken someone’s reputation/name/character – to do or say something that you know will harm someone’s reputation

    Knock someone off their pedestal – to show that someone who is very successful or admired or loved very much has faults like everyone else.

    I think that last is not the least of the injuries inflicted upon Julia Gillard who took over ALP leadership with a fine reputation, having been a much admired Deputy Prime Minister, parliamentarian and industrial relations advocate. Team Abbott knew well the calibre of the woman he was now up against once Rudd had gone. She has been their primary target for denigration and discredit every day since then. How many of her detractors could have taken this onslaught and come back smiling and constructively planning for this country’s future?

    Whenever this site is used to do any of those things to her or to any other persons here rather than express opinions about actions, statements, policies or points of view, without proof, I will object the moderator.

  292. I do noticed that when the trolls invade and posts are taken over, visitors quickly lose interest, if that graph and numbers at the top of the page are any indicator.

    Patricia, we seem to have plenty of company in our dislike of demonizing of the PM.

  293. CU and patriciawa

    And then as stated they have this NEED to repost comments to have a chucke among themselves. bit sad really, to be so desperate

  294. Repeat themselves they do. Broken records, the lot of them.

    If I read one more time about about how good they say they are I’ll puke.

  295. Thanks for clarifying ME. I hadn’t heard he had a go at Obama too.

    I thought I’d go looking, and, sure enough, Paul Kelly was all aglow about tabot bagging Obama

    In a sideswipe at the Obama administration, Mr Abbott said it had “a different view of American greatness” from the Bush administration. “The public in America don’t think their country is great right now,” he said.

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/abbott-reminds-us-of-forgotten-destiny/story-e6frg74x-1226429436327

    Does he mention how poor this is in diplomatic circles, does he cry out how he is damaging our relationship with the current American Government. No, according to him, he “threw out the foreign policy rulebook and spoke from the heart”.

    Gillard is ridiculed and denigrated by this mob for advancing our Governments ties with the Obama administration, and tabot is applauded when he burns them down.

    Meanwhile, when Labor voted against going to an illegal war with bush, they were, according to these self same ‘experts’, threatening our alliance.

    Ideological puppets, the lot of them.

    There is nothing wrong with the business model. It’s just that their content is so crap.

  296. Tom, I wish Tony Abbott was condemned for what he says as much as Julia Gillard does for what she wears.

  297. Obviously Liealot thinks that Obama will lose the US election. He’ll be stuffed if the Americans re-elect Obama. Then we’ll see some grovelling and forelock pulling. Although I don’t think Obama would be as ill mannered as Liealot, I’d love it if he cut the bugger dead at any future encounter.

  298. Oh dear, what a hypocrite el gordo is.

    She has been screaming all over the blogosphere that it’s much better to have only one administrator on a blog site, yet complains when there’s nobody around to check her comments in moderation.

    Yes, I found your comment el gordo and I don’t even know why you wasted your energy typing it.

    I might suggest that you don’t put yourself to any bother in future. You diminish the quality of any blog you drop yourself into.

    Go drop yourself somewhere else. I’m sure we’ll cope without you.

  299. I have just found an article on the Tele that reads like there dumping on TA, This is the headline, “The carbon millstone around Gillard’s neck” but when you read the article, especially this sentence “But there’s another factor driving Abbott’s carbon assault – take it out of the political equation and on just about every other issue of substance, the Coalition is on the wrong side of public opinion.”

    Is this an anti Tony article.

    http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/opinion/the-carbon-millstone-around-gillards-neck/story-e6frezz0-1226427720071

  300. “The script is simple. Find a friendly employer, line up a picture opp with a slightly bemused workforce, capture 30 seconds of vision and the key messages of “Big New Tax. Lie. Boo!” is packaged in pictures for the evening news.’

    http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/opinion/the-carbon-millstone-around-gillards-neck/story-e6frezz0-1226427720071

    Yes, and the poor taxpayer pays every day, to take him all over the Nation for him to get that photo shot. Some times two, in different states, in one day.

    The message is the same wherever he goes.

  301. The guardian has a live blog on developments in syria.
    this analysis is interesting
    “Observers are predicting increased political problems for Hezbollah in Lebanon because of its close ties with the Syrian regime. In an article for Foreign Affairs, Mona Yacoubian explains:

    Hezbollah faces a moment of reckoning. The increasingly likely demise of Bashar al-Assad’s regime in Damascus would deprive the militant Lebanese Shia organisation of one of its main patrons and could constrain its ability to play an active role in regional politics….
    Facing the loss of a key ally and with its credibility compromised, an off-balance Hezbollah could turn inward, deepening its involvement in Lebanese politics in order to consolidate its power”
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/middle-east-live/2012/jul/19/syria-crisis-aftermath-damascus-assassinations-live

  302. more
    ‘There is a mixture of fear and happiness in Damascus, according to Ameer an activist from the northern suburb of Barzeh.

    Happiness because of what happened yesterday and the FSA [being] on the gates of Damascus. And fear of what the upcoming days will bring.

    There are also concerns about reports of chemical weapons being mobilised, he said.

    “I’m scared for the safety of my family,” he said.

    Ameer recounted the sound of shelling since dawn this morning.

    “Every neighbourhood has its own helicopter over it,” he said. ‘

  303. James, I said that while I was speaking with wixxy today, I mentioned to him that there was a poster at the Cafe..and i advised you that he’s a bit busy at the moment. Neither wixxy nor myself mentioned lawyers…at all.

  304. Agreed paulwello and Cu, but the writer of that article was Peter Lewis, director of Essential Media Communications, and not a News journo. The way it was headlined and illustrated made it look like a pro-Abbott piece. Clever sub-editing and presentation can kill the most constructive piece of writing. I bet Peter Lewis was not pleased.

  305. One that gets me and the reporter uses if regularly, is that the PM spruiked….. …

    I know it is a legitimate word, but it sounds like something else.

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