What they said

The news from Jakarta that Indonesia is stepping up its military presence in the region has by now been widely reported. Some key – and frightening – messages in those reports include:

“The greatest threat will obviously be from Australia”

Australia’s “tow-back” policy may soon ignite conflict.

“Now that we have three frigates on the border, a clash could be imminent as our Navy will prevent the towing back”

It’s all because of Abbott’s “tow back” policy! Pathetic, really.

It is interesting to look at what both Kevin Rudd and Julie Bishop had to say about the Australia/Indonesia relationship in June last year. Rudd, a former Foreign Minister, had just won back the prime ministership and Bishop was Shadow Foreign Minister. Here’s a recap:

KEVIN RUDD: I’m very concerned about whether, if Mr Abbott were to become prime minister and continues that rhetoric and that posture and actually tries to translate it into reality, I really wonder whether he’s trying to risk some sort of conflict with Indonesia.

What I’m talking about is diplomatic conflict, but I’m always wary about where diplomatic conflicts go. Konfrontasi with Indonesia evolved over a set of words and turned into something else. Let’s just, let’s just call it for what it is.

If the ambassador of the Republic of Indonesia in Australia says that the policy of the government of Indonesia is not one which would faintly support the policy put forward by Mr Abbott, and secondly if Mr Abbott as prime minister then seeks to do that, you end up with a pretty robust diplomatic conflict and I become a little uncertain as to where that heads.

I’m not suggesting that Mr Abbott would intentionally head in that direction at all. But I’m saying very clearly that you have a policy collision here between what he says and what the government of Indonesia says.

You’ve got to ask this question; so what happens on day one when field marshal Tony puts out the order to the captain of the Australian naval frigate X to turn back a bunch of boats? And you’ve got naval frigate from the Indonesian navy on the other side of the equation.

JULIE BISHOP: Kevin Rudd has revealed the ugly tactics that he intends to use in his new government, and that is to make absurd and wild claims that the Coalition would trigger a conflict with Indonesia over people smuggling.

It is utterly irresponsible and reckless for the Prime Minister of this country to try and use our bilateral relationship with Indonesia for base domestic political purposes. He tries to suggest there’s going to be a conflict with Indonesia under a Coalition government? It’s outrageous and it should be utterly and absolutely condemned.

Guess which one’s the idiot?

Photo

Image courtesy of Margaret Morgan.

205 comments on “What they said

  1. you had people who knew what they were doing running the country, Now you have a motly crew of children making policy on the run, They have no idea of how to run a country, abbott and crew are the laughing stock around the world, when you put the inmates in charge what do you expect to happen, bingo a bitter twisted religious fanatic and friends still thinking they’re in the 50s .

  2. For mine, any thought that their will be a clash between Australia and Indonesia at sea is pure hyperbole. Having said that, in that eventuality Abbott would be ensconced in the lodge for another ten years. Yes even the ‘ Babbling Baboon ‘ Abbott would be seen as the war P.M. One only has to look to the social media, especially ‘ Face Book ‘ to see we have more Rednecks in this country than we would all like to admit. This is Abbotts base and he knows how to play up to it.

    It will take more than an incident with Indonesia to get rid of Abbott. First Shorten has to step down. He has all the charisma of a dressmakers dummy, he comes across to me at least, like he is on about 100 m.g’s of Valium a day. He is probably a nice bloke, he just ain’t got it. They had better apologise to Albo and get him in the job or we have shit it.

  3. Best news for 2014. No Illegal arrivals in the last 5 weeks.
    Guess the idiots have got Sovereign Borders actually working.
    Where does that leave the critics?
    More Indonesian presence in the area a real plus.
    Don’t worry about quoting Rudd ( a bigger idiot ) he has left everybody in the lurch
    and now resides in Europe with his wife supposedly living in Singapore.

  4. Should there be a war, Australia would win it. Just google both countries defense capabilities.

    And war would be good for Tony’s ratings. Would see him power for many years to come.

  5. Australia would win a war? Nobody wins in a war except those who own missile companies. And how do we know there has been no new boat arrivals in weeks, seeing as there is a media black out from this government. Talk about buying into the propaganda.

  6. It would be interesting to see which country the USA would support if it came down to it….and old but fairly irrelevant (in the global scheme of things) ally or continue to prop up the reasonably friendly…and mostly pliable government of the worlds biggest muslim country.

  7. This rabble are truly frightening in their thick-headed obnoxiousness. They have politicized the military, pissed off the Indonesians, demonstrated to the Europeans who have a much larger asylum seeker problem, how inhumane and petty we are… What a result.

  8. Does the man really have any idea. Does he not realize, his words do not necessarily have the effect he believes they will.

    …..It’s not a great start for [Mr Abbott] to take the chair of the G20 and deny the very basis of the global financial crisis,” Mr Swan told Fairfax Media.
    Mr Abbott’s theory that Labor’s stimulus spending was a bad idea, ignores the analysis of economists, Treasury, the International Monetary Fund, the World Bank and the G20, Mr Swan said.
    It was poor regulation of the financial sector, not government spending, that caused the crisis, Mr Swan added.
    ”For Tony Abbott to try to rewrite the history of the global financial crisis . . . shows that he has no understanding at all of the forces at work in the global economy,” he said.
    ”It’s sad that he would seek to use an international forum and chairmanship of the G20 to engage in a bit of grubby domestic politics, which the whole audience will know is wrong.”
    Shadow treasurer Chris Bowen said Mr Abbott’s speech suggested he was ”addicted to being leader of the opposition and [hadn't] adjusted to being Prime Minister”.
    ”What we saw from the Prime Minister in this speech was a pretty tired old recitation of . . . slogans, and frankly, continuing attacks on the Labor Party for domestic political purposes,” Mr Bowen told ABC radio on Friday.
    ”It’s not how a Prime Minister………….

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/tony-abbott-uses-global-stage-to-take-a-swipe-at-labor-over-financial-crisis-20140123-31bsi.html#ixzz2rGdP39F4.

    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/tony-abbott-uses-global-stage-to-take-a-swipe-at-labor-over-financial-crisis-20140123-31bsi.html?eid=email:nnn-13omn656-ret_newsl-membereng:nnn-04/11/2013-news_am-dom-news-nnn-smh-u&campaign_code=13INO010&promote_channel=edmail&mbnr=MjEwMDQ0OA

  9. To create a war with Indonesia would have to be the dumbest thing possible.
    What purpose would a war serve?
    The Abbott gang are already stuffing up on every front they are pretending to govern in; what an abject failure they have been.

  10. @VOYAGER – Are you privy to information that the rest of the country is not? No information is being released so how do you know there has been 0 arrivals? there could have been 100 arrivals, no-one knows. My bet is, there silence because the arrivals have rolled on and they don’t want to let on their plan doesn’t work, because the navy can’t be everywhere if there are many boats at the same time.

  11. Have we heard Abbpott’s call on this one.

    .DAVOS, Switzerland — Leaders gathered in the Swiss ski resort of Davos are pushing for nations worldwide to shift to cleaner energy sources as the best way to contain global warming and re-energize the global economy.

    U.N. climate chief Christiana Figueres, reflecting the top billing that climate change has in Davos this year, said the world economy is at risk unless a binding deal is agreed in Paris in 2015 to lower heat-trapping carbon emissions from coal and oil.

    “It is important that we get the treaty because the signal to the markets, the signal to the global economy, needs to be stronger than it is right now,” she said in an Associated Press interview on Wednesday.

    Nations emerged from climate talks in Poland in November with a vague road map on how to prepare for a global climate pact to stabilize warming at 2 degrees Celsius (3.6 Fahrenheit), a level countries hope will avoid the worst consequences of climate change..

    http://www.weather.com/news/science/environment/climate-change-clean-energy-talk-davos-world-economic-forum-20140122

  12. Will someone please explain, one can be sick enough, not to go to work, without seeing a doctor. Wonder how much this action cost Medicare.

    Personally, if one gets the flu, one does not need a doctor. The rest of your workout does not need you there, spreading the virus.

    Same goes for such things as migraines.

  13. Sorry, if no new arrivals, what were those boats towed back off Darwin and Christmas Island.

    What is more important. Many less coming into Indonesia. Thanks for the arrangements Labor made with that country. Yes, change the way they obtain visas. About one eighth less now.

    Shorten and Albanese, now on ABC 24. Giving his opinion on that famous speech last night.

    Of course, the PNG has nothing to do with the matter either.

  14. So we are to go to war over a bunch of hapless refugees who are neither armed or sent to rape and pillage by another nation? Pathetic really

  15. The USA will support the country, that is in their interest to do. That has been made very clear in the past.

  16. The biggest problems in politics today are Stupidity and arrogance If you take a combination of all our ministers, Especially the P.M and the Foreign minister Plus the Speaker and the advisors from the previous JH ministry And of course Rupert , Gina and P.C !!What do they all have in common ?? Yes S & A !! in spades !! God help us !!!

  17. Actually, is stopping a few boats, of those seeking asylum, the most important matter facing this country.

    I am more concerned with rising unemployment and inflation., One that indicates a word we have not seen in decades, but belongs to those on the conservative side. Yes, stagnation.

    Albanese is letting this government have it. ABC 24

  18. VOYAGER – Brisbane – Sydney @ 9:50 am

    Are you really that ignorant or do you just play at it. That is the second time I believe you have stated no boats when there have been.

    In each week for the last 4 not including this week there has been a boat for a total of 169 refugees.

    Where do you get the five weeks of no boats from. Oh that’s right, it’s from the time Morrison the Secret stopped his weekly press conferences as he was caught out lying too often.

  19. That there are any boats during the monsoon season is indicative of how desperate the asylum seekers. In late March when the monsoon ends we will have a better idea of what is happening. Given our deteriorating relationship with Indonesia things are not looking bright for Morrison and Porous Borders.

    To further complicate matters SBY is a moderate with a policy of engagement and in a few months there will be a new president who is likely to be much more hardline.

  20. Let’s look at recent wars where the so-called ‘pure of heart’ have had the weaponry and technological superiority (WTS).
    1. USSR v Afghanistan — WTS lost
    2. Vietnam — WTS lost
    3. USofA and affiliates v Iraq — WTS lost & now Iraq basket case country
    2. USofA and affililiates v — Afghanistan — WTS losing/lost.
    Conclusion: Unless you nuke em into oblivion you won’t win using conventional warfare and weaponry against dedicated/committed guerrilla forces. More proof? Have a look at the wars on the African continent!

  21. Change of subject I saw Abbott speaking at davos with one other person on the stage was there anyone out there in audience Land reminded me of the “Open colleges” advertisement on TV The Lady speaking ton her 5 year old boy , Poor Tony representing Australia to an empty room, Standing Ovation from Peta no doubt , I think that Indonesia has got what it wants Via some trade inducement hence Abbotts Big statements

  22. It was worse than Abbott talking to a near empty room greg toland.

    Before Abbott got up to speak the room was mostly full, they all walked out when he got up on stage with only a few mostly (Australian) business representative left.

    It was a snub of the highest order, with even the Pope sending a message that was diametrically opposite to what Abbott preached in his mostly sloganeering speech of greed is good.

    The main topic for the rest of the WEF was climate change and how to implement actions to combat it. Abbott didn’t mention climate at all during the WEF conference.

  23. How ignorant can you be. These illegal economic aliens have been assaulting and raping Aussie girls and women for years. It’s part of the Muslim religion. No doubt you agree with forced marriage, underage forced sex as taught in the Koran.

    Here’s the latest rape from last week:
    http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/iranian-held-in-anzac-bridge-rape-case/story-fni0cx12-1226804588068

    I suppose you’re gunna put up his bail money and have him move in with you ???

  24. Why dont you include every arrival at Jakarta International in your figures as well.

    No boat has landed on the Australian mainland or any of its territories in the last 5 weeks.

    Therefore, there have been no arrivals. End of story.

  25. So all the white Australians who rape and assault Australian girls, and domestically there’s a lot of them, should be put in detention with horrible conditions on remote islands.

    Can you please quote the exact passage from the Koran that underage forced sex is taught. And whilst I’m on that do you want me to quote all the Leviticus passages in the Bible that are just as barbaric?

    And the specious argument of you must support the criminal because you’re a supporter of humane and compassionate treatment of others who just happen to be of the same race.

    All you have done is trotted out the standard racist memes The Idiot.

  26. Are you suggesting the Indonesians are going to land troops in Darwin ???

    I’ve yet to hear of a war that is decided solely by sea or air !!!!!!

    Australia has air superiority over Indonesia, although I do note that the Indos are buying 24 F-16s this year, probably with our half a billion $$$$ foreign aid.

  27. WTF are you on about, Idiot :shock:
    What a grubby poor excuse for a human you are….. but, alas, your too ignorant to know……. oh, and good luck with that walking upright thingy.. :roll:
    Oi, stoopid hater :arrow: “Idiots are what Idiots say” and you @3.13 is proof, dickhead.
    …. though, really, I should’nt be so-o-o hard on someone so-o obviously lacking…. :mrgreen:

  28. Allenmcmahon and,

    That there are any boats during the monsoon season is indicative of how desperate the asylum seekers.

    Thank goodness for some common sense..how many times have I seen quoted in the msm the regirgitation of Liberal lies (or ignorance) claiming that their policy has stopped the boats when it’s duh the monsoon season.

  29. ‘Australia has air superiority over Indonesia..’

    Ummm interesting. Does that mean, less pollution? More oxygen? Less, or more Co2?

    The mind boggles.

  30. Shows how pig ignorant you are:

    Jan 2010 – 303
    Jan 2011 – 166
    Jan 2012 – 301
    Jan 2013 – 465
    Jan 2014 – nada, zilch, zero

    Any more misinformation from the corrupt Indonesian generals and ALP HQ ????

  31. Wrong Village Idiot, didn’t you listen to Morrison. There was a boat even this week and in the last four weeks there has been a boat a week with a total of 169 asylum seekers.

    Damn you right wingers are easily fooled by tricky words.

  32. So according to you, Rote Island is now Australian soil ????

    You leftards need new atlases !!!!!!

  33. Still waiting for that passage from the Koran. Here are some tenets from the Bible:

    It’s OK to sell your daughter into slavery.
    It’s OK to own male and female slaves as long as they are from neighbouring countries. So owning a Kiwi is OK.
    You cannot contact in anyway a woman in menstruation.
    If someone blasphemes the whole town must stone them to death.
    If you work on the Sabbath you should be put to death.
    If you have a defect in sight you cannot go to church. So all those with glasses and contacts might was well give up their religion.
    Trimming your hair around your temples is strictly forbidden.
    Wearing clothing of two different threads is a big no no. Polyester blends are out.

    Many more if you look.

  34. From the Human Rights Commission,

    Professor Triggs says the continued detention of children is the area of greatest concern.

    “I think every Australian understands that perhaps this is one area where Australia has simply gone too far,” she said.

    “As I said, we’ve got over 1,000 children in closed detention, in isolated conditions, Christmas Island and in other detention centres around Australia.

    “On Nauru, we have 850 people of whom about 125 are children and similar numbers, slightly greater, on Manus Island.

    “Our concern is, as a matter of law, children should not be detained except as a matter of last resort and we are clearly not at the last resort level.”

    In an ideal world we would have an orderly queue of asylum seekers, however war and the practice of torturing those whose beliefs differ from the ruling regime mean that people have to flee, and in less than an orderly fashion.

    Therefore because of political posturing by Tony Abbott (and Indonesia has identified his actions as such) we, Australia instead of the proud history of equality and democracy which we once had are now faced with,

    There are increasing murmurings that the government’s approach to asylum seekers is criminal, and even amounts to crimes against humanity.

    http://www.smh.com.au/comment/asylumseeker-policy-could-amount-to-crime-20140123-31bij.html#ixzz2rIVybp8a

  35. Oh so they must step on Australian soil to be counted as an asylum seeker boat.

    And you do know that the numbers were about the same as they are now in the six weeks before the election. It was Rudd’s policy and the monsoon season that stemmed the numbers.

    Wait until the monsoon season is over. Plus don’t forget with Sovereign Borders in place, the supposed greatest protect the borders policy in our history two boats got through undetected. What a massive failure that was.

  36. Just go to YouTube,. You’ll find your muzzie mates have lots of videos of women who were raped being stoned or shot to death for adultery. Name me one Christian country that does that. Admit it – your deending barbarians and we dont need any more of them here.

  37. Too true Carol, with several overseas human rights agencies now investigating Australia for breaches and calls for limited sanctions against us.

    Our name is trashed on the world stage and Abbott is shunned at world forums.

  38. You don’t consider the Christian sects in the US who take child brides as young as eight as being wrong.

    What about all the good Christian men who rape and I’m not defending anyone Idiot, that a straw man you’re throwing in. You are using the disgusting behaviour of some to condemn all whilst at the same time providing and excuse why we should take in the asylum seekers.

    I condemn those actions by all, no matter what religion or race, but it seems to you it’s only wrong if one race does it.

  39. I’m sure Prof Trigg’s is referring to the 1300+ deaths at sea under the ALP/Greens policy. Come to think of it – she has never condemned the deaths. Her priorities are perverse, but she is a leftard. Hopefully she’ll be sacked soon.

  40. Oh here are the deaths as sea bit, whenever they get stuck in their racist arguments out comes the faux concern and deaths at sea bit.

    If you are so concerned about the welfare of asylum seekers what’s your problem of directly taking them from S.E. Asia to Australia by safe means?

  41. Also note how Village Idiot is skirting around any questions posed to change tact in every post. So much like someone else who used to post here.

  42. They are now saying disembarked. What does one call it, when transferred to an Australian boat, then back to a life raft?

  43. Some of the most violent child abuse cases I have investigated, or where the parents, mostly fathers believe in spare the rod, spoil the child. Yes, those who take their moves from the bible.

    As for child marriage, that occurred regularly back in the early days, of those coming from such countries, as Italy, a Catholic country.

    How thick did the bible say, the rod could be, that a husband could discipline his wife. That is not so long ago.

  44. Anyway guys and gals – back later – gunna have a nap before I listen to Australia’s best radio announcers – Andrew Bolt and Steve Price on http://www.2gb.com at 8.00pm

  45. The village idiot (Confirmed) is obviously taking the piss, having a laugh, a tricker.

    No one could take the ramblings of this pillock serious.

  46. No! Rather, making the point that technical superiority doesn’t necessarily win wars, and you shouldn’t think that because you have the TS you can handle any eventuality. Likelihood of Indonesian invasion of Australia is very remote. However an incident where some gung-ho twit (either side) lets fly at the other at a confrontation at sea isn’t. The Indonesians are making it plain that they will stop the boats being turned back and Oz is saying it will turn back the boats. On the border between two nations this is a recipe for an incident — and dead people!.

  47. On January 15, this story was quietly mentioned in the SMH,

    Navy personnel carrying out border protection were quietly stripped of some workplace safety protections and obligations last month in an apparent preparation for dangerous operations such as turning back boats.

    So while the war-mongers and racists are egging Abbott on in his ego-trip to “take on” Indonesia, Navy personnel and their families are being stripped of their protections. This government disgusts me.

    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/navy-sailors-now-on-war-footing-to-turn-back-boats-20140114-30t47.html#ixzz2rIn0ZOgQ

  48. PS: Just read the other posts and came to the realisation that the Village Idiot truly is! And he (probably) isn’t reformed I’m afraid. Unless he’s going for a doctorate in village idiocy!

  49. There will be no war with Indonesia. The last Konfrontasi between Australia and Indonesia the Australian forces humiliated them. This is all just a storm in a tea cup.
    They are not going to put at risk Australia’s investment in Indonesia, starting a war over what amounts to be five fifths of F.A. Wiser heads on both sides will sort this out.

  50. And unable to answer the questions along with not realising he is giving reasons why asylum seekers should be settled in Australia direct from the point of departure, the Village Idiot descends into inane travesty and imbecility.

    Nothing ever changes with them does it? They trot out the same crap not a single bit of it original, just the drone aping of others repeated over.

  51. “…your last paragraph come from the Koran you fool.”

    No it didn’t idiot.

    The “Rule of Thumb” Has Nothing to do with “Wife Beating”
    British Women’s Emancipation since the Renaissance
    Part Three: Applying Biblical Discipline(pdf)
    Solomon

    “Do not withhold correction from a child, for if you beat him with a rod, he will not die. You shall beat him with a rod, and deliver his soul from hell” (23:13-14).

    The Qur’an says that the rod must not be stiff but slim.

    So wife beating was condoned in the past by Western societies and in both the Bible and Qur’an.

    As I quoted above the Bible is full of subjugation of women and indeed the original Church was setup exactly to do that, some of the practices by them continues to this day in some of the Christian religions and sects.

    One isn’t holier than the other.

  52. “Looks as though Newman is on the wrong track…again!”

    Are you being sarcastic or serious? If you are serious,well yep, he’s on the wrong track. No doubt about it.

  53. This time around, it will be Australia who will be humiliated. 1. it’s an election year in Indonesia and SBY (althought not eligible for re-election) has already been criticised for being “soft” on Australia, 2. Indonesia warned Abbott and Bishop while in opposition and they ignored the diplomatic “suggestions”, 3. Indonesia will not back down or risk losing face. It is Australia who has done the wrong thing by invading Indonesia’s territorial waters.

  54. The number of arrivals is important only to those who believe that numbers are the important thing, something akin to a game of footie. For others with some knowledge of international relations, it’s getting along with our neighbors which is of far more importance. It is Australia’s international reputation which is at stake. Our reputation developed over the years, firstly we were seen as backwater bogans whose only interest was beer swilling and wet t-shirt competitions..it seems that we are rapidly heading back in that direction.

  55. “This time around, it will be Australia who will be humiliated. ”

    Australia has already been humiliated by treating these boat people like common criminals. We are a laughing stock, all these people that have come so far wouldn’t fill the M.C.G. Yes Australia did the wrong thing, I for one don’t believe it will happen again. For all of Abbotts bluster and rhetoric the commanders of the Australian vessels, would be under strict orders not to confront any Indonesian warships. Yes they may try turning around the boats but it will be in Australian waters.

    If the Indonesians fire on an Australian warship is all that will happen is, Indonesia will be looking for a new ship. The Australian Navy is probably the most professional outfit there is, they are under no threat from Indonesia.

    This is not going to escalate into anything except more diplomatic mumbo jumbo.

  56. @ The Village Idiot

    Your figures show that there is a big drop off in the monsoon season so I don’t know how that advances your argument. Then again your comments are rather convoluted so following them at the best of times is problematic.

    We have this current crisis because Australia towed back at least five boats with approx. 300 people on board and I don’t see that happening with the Indonesian naval presence now in the region. Unless of course Abbott is completely crazy – which is a scarily distinct possibility given his actions since taking office.

  57. I am always bemused that our government has such an issue with asylum seekers arriving by boat when our major problem is people coming by plane who break their visa conditions so they are actually illegal unlike asylum seekers. In 2012 by boat approx. 16,000 by plane 60,000 who breached visa conditions.

    Nett migration in Australia is in excess of 200,000 people per year and we have people wetting their beds over asylum seekers who represent one months population growth. We would not have to issue so many 457 visa’s as asylum seekers would be more than happy to fill the jobs that Australian’s are too lazy to do.

    Australia issued 162,000 457 visas in 2012 so we could absorb our asylum seekers numbers and not affect nett migration at all. Instead we at least $5 billion a year on an artificial problem created by politicians.

    http://www.immi.gov.au/about/reports/annual/2012-13/pdf/secretarys-review.pdf

  58. For the record, Mr Abbott’s claims about spending being an addiction in Australia are false. (see graph) They risk damaging the reputation of our Triple-A credit-rated economy, and have already undermined Mr Abbott’s own credibility.
    Wayne Swan was federal treasurer between 2007 and 2013. He is the federal MP for Lilley.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-opinion/wayne-swan-responds-global-stage-is-no-place-for-partisan-domestic-politics-20140124-31d15.html#ixzz2rJhNVGVB

  59. Poll: Who do you credit with helping Australia emerge relatively unscathed from the global financial crisis?
    The Coalition. The Howard government’s strong economic performance put us on a good footing
    16%
    Labor. Its stimulus package saved jobs and businesses
    69%
    Both governments
    15%
    Total votes: 7299.Poll closed 24 Jan, 2014
    Disclaimer: These polls are not scientific and reflect the opinion only of visitors who have chosen to participate.
    Ads by Google

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-opinion/wayne-swan-responds-global-stage-is-no-place-for-partisan-domestic-politics-20140124-31d15.html#ixzz2rJhiysdz

    Thge public no longer seems to agree with the man.

  60. @ The Village Idiot

    Are asylum seekers breaking any law -absolutely not.

    Asylum seekers irrespective of their mode of arrival, like others that arrive in Australia without a valid visa, are classified by Australian law to be ‘unlawful non-citizens’. ‘However, the term ‘unlawful’ does not mean that asylum seekers have committed a criminal offence. There is no offence under Australian law that criminalises the act of arriving in Australia or the seeking of asylum without a valid visa.’

    Are asylum seekers ‘queue jumpers’ -absolutely not

    ‘There is a view that asylum seekers, particularly those who arrive in Australia by boat, are ‘jumping the queue’ and taking the place of a more deserving refugee awaiting resettlement in a refugee camp. The concept of an orderly queue does not accord with the reality of the asylum process.’

    http://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parliamentary_Library/pubs/BN/2012-2013/AsylumFacts#_Toc348096467

  61. There was an effort to set up a more orderly queue with the proposed Malaysian solution. That with the present, PNG and maybe an arrangement with Indonesia, would have the same result we have now. Yes, without the cost and smell that comes with it.

    The people would not have to risk their lives.

  62. The issue is and remains that whether there is asylum-seekers remains a moot point, as it is the handling of the issue that is at stake here. The Australian government is able to–as a sovereign country–do and say what it likes, as is Indonesia. The response of Indonesia signals they are unhappy with the Australian governments post-colonial and quasi-imperialist ways and methods. Australia has a long and sorry history when dealing with Indonesia and two examples of this are the mid-1990s insistence that Indonesia adopt IMF standards re the GFC which plunged more that halt their population into poverty and in the 1970s Australia purchased F-III’s, and major part of the reason was so the RAAF could bomb Jakarta and return. These two reasons alone signal that Indonesia has a certain amount of validity in the way it views Australia, and that Aust has done very little over a long period of time to de-escalate regional frictions.

  63. Oh Albo you are such a legend.
    Tell us all what you saw (and did not do) when you were at Suffix Sheet in the 90′s
    Utter Corruption , Graft , Union Thuggery + – just everything so Un-Australian.
    You are a dinosaur and your wife is extinct after destroying NSW.
    You should hang your head in shame on Australia Day. A friend to no one.
    Join Kevin overseas and thus Clean up Australia!

  64. Poor VOYAGER, unable to defend the woeful Abbott or this government has to bring up past allegations against Labor pollies whilst of course ignoring those from the Liberals, like Abbott.

    You really have become desperate because of Abbott’s miserable failures.

    Why won’t you address the current government VOYAGER because when Labor was in power all we ever heard from the right wingers was they are the government so should be the ones being judged, not the opposition or the past Howard government?

  65. And those fools didn’t even know it. We told them voluntarily. SBY and Marty the Midget should return to the Kalimatan trees where they belong with the zillions earnt from their corrupt cronies.

  66. All you cretins are saying that the monsoons have stopped the boats. I’m merely pointing out the stupidty of that comment. Our glorious Prime Minister has stopped the boats as promised. God bless Tony Abbott.

  67. The bottom end of the economy well and truly pay their way. Andrews falsely claims that those on Newstart and Disibilty are rubbing the top off. No, Andrews is wrong. These benefits are not out of control. In fact, they were steady over the last few years. Seem to react to unemployment, not abuse.

    Yes, there has been a small growth in both. Fact is, it is because of the changes made to the single parents benefit. Many were transferred from SP to both Nestor and Disabulity. Well explained growth, nothing to do with being unsustainable.

    Yes, if unemployment increases, it is those on both Single Parent and disability benefits that suffer.

    The first direction made by this government to the public service was to crack down on sick leave. Mr. Andrews, if one suffers from a disability, one is likely to be too ill to work more often. That is natural. Yes, if one suffers from such things as mental illness or MS, one will find it maybe they can work, but the employer has to know, they might have bad days.

    Even the taxation has moved the responsibility from those at the top. That can afford to pay, for those on the bottom.

    Long gone, are the employers that pay for training their own staff, with such things as hiring apprentices. They expect all infrastructure, both physical and human, to be provided by the taxpayer. Is this what Abbott means by the country being open for business.

    Al we are hearing from McFarlane and Abbott, is that the unions have to pay, and workers lower wages, and give up conditions. We need to become as the USA, with workers’ wages going backwards by up to 60%. A country, that is rich and powerful but a majority of the population living in poverty. Includes the middle

    Mr. Abbott is very clear in his beliefs, as unbelievably simple as they are.

    Yes, he does believe in very small government, the free market and open go, with no restraints for industry.

    Of course it follows, there are to be no unions, workers rights or regulations of any type.

    In Abbott’s work; , they do not even have to pay tax, not even to contribute to the infrastructure they need.

    …………………………In order to address rising income inequality in Australia we must start by reforming campaign financing and addressing taxation. Our tax system must become more progressive and the government must reduce and replace wasteful tax expenditure.

    On Wednesday, following the release of an Oxfam report Working for the Few, I addressed the problem of rising income and wealth inequality in Australia (Australia’s inequality shame can no longer be ignored, January 22).

    Over the past thirty years, the income share of the top 1 per cent of income earners has effectively doubled to around 10 per cent of our national income. Real incomes of the top 1 per cent increased by 178 per cent between 1980 and 2010, compared with just 34 per cent for the bottom 90 per cent.

    Despite unprecedented economic prosperity over the past twenty years, successive governments at both the state and federal levels have failed to address inequality. They have failed to address our infrastructure needs, failed to plan for the future and failed their social obligations. We have, quite simply, wasted billions of dollars.

    But…………

    http://www.businessspectator.com.au/article/2014/1/24/economy/raise-taxes-reduce-inequality?utm_source=exact&utm_medium=email&utm_content=563033&utm_campaign=kgb&modapt=

  68. You know, I would rather be friendly with those very large countries with growing economies in the north.

    Not sure that stopping a few boats is worth putting that at risk. Especially when it appeared, that the things put in place, with the assistance of Indonesia, and other countries in the region seemed to be working.

    Why pick a fight when it is not necessary.

    Are some of you saying, that we should be turning our backs on one of the biggest growing middle class in the world. A little stupid to me.

  69. Nick Cato, on the Drum said he agreed with Abbott when he said that taxes and spending does not create wealth but only distributes it. Yes, that is what it is all about.

    Does the worker and the population have any right to some of the wealth, they help to create. Yes, the worker as well as the boss.

    Taxes do pay for the infrastructure for wealth to be created. Taxes and spending provide the highly educated and healthy worker, that industry needs.

    Mr. Abbott is wrong, if he believes the free market and industry provides all. It does not.

    No one creates wealth on their own.

    This is especially so, when it comes to the likes of big mining companies, who dig from the ground the oil and ore, that belong to the people. Do it at great expense to the environment,

    The greatest challenge any government has, is in our global world, getting transnational companies to pay any tax.

  70. Just to add, when one keeps to facts and statistics, Labor was far from a big spending and wasteful government. That is not what Abbott is about. Abbott is about putting his own extreme ideology into play. Nothing to do with what Labor has left.

  71. Indonesia did work with Australia, under Labor, to bring some sense to the boats leaving their country. In fact, what Albanese and Rudd, accomplish, following the good work that Gillard did, indeed leads to few re numbers. Has even led to about one eighth of the number, passing through Indonesia.

    All Indonesia is saying, turning back boats will not work in the long run. Will only trap them in Indonesia. Indonesia, a highly populated and poor country.

    This government is wasting money, going ahead at this time, in turning back boats.

    Refugees still need somewhere to go.

  72. Interesting is the time and effort some remain involved with a few boats, while ignoring the rising inflation and unemployment figures.

    Interesting that the same, show no concern in the coming attack on our workers and welfare recipients.

    Interesting that no-one seems concerned, that all regulations and many taxes are being lifted from the shoulders of business.

    Yes, it is interesting what concerns some.

    No interest in the dismantling of the infrastructure for this century Yes, NBNCo for starters. Then there is the problem of man made climate changes, which appears now to be a reality.

    Not interested in seeing our education system taken backwards.

    No interest, in seeing health care being put beyond the reach of many.

    Yes, user pay, and lower taxes, are OK for those that have the means. Not for the rest of us.

  73. Interesting as somne say. They say taxes and spending does not create wealth. Maybe Mr. Abbott needs to tell business that.

    ………..For advocates of small government, it is interesting that the BCA’s persistent demand is that government must deliver fiscal austerity, debt reduction, tax cuts (except for the GST, which it wants increased) and better roads, ports, airports and railways all at the same time. The government must also “deliver” productivity “reform”, apparently ignoring the large increases in labour productivity since the introduction of Labor’s Fair Work Act; after it fell off the proverbial cliff under Workchoices. What’s more, the government should also ignore what is beginning to show up in the national accounts as a collapse in capital productivity of historically unprecedented proportions.

    In th…..

    http://www.dougcameron.com.au/abbott_outsources_policy_to_big_business

  74. For the Village Idiot, a comment on Abbott’s woeful Davos speech, being canned internationally but not by our local media, including the ABC.

    “Australia has become the village idiot. Thanks Tony!”

    And we have a right wing commentator here that proves it.

  75. .Inequality
    Why America’s staggering wealth disparity is an economic problem — not just a moral one

    ..The debate about inequality inflames many passions because of its moral and philosophical trappings. But inequality is also an economic phenomenon with enormous consequences that we are just beginning to understand. In fact, inequality’s impairment of economic growth may dwarf its more apparent social costs.
    To understand why, consider what happens when economic opportunities are in short supply. When any market has a shortage, not everyone gets the things they want. But who does get them also matters, because it’s not always the people who value those things the most………..

    http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2014/01/22/the_inefficiency_of_inequality

  76. Another interesting thing, that many do not want to talk about. Would rather focus on a few boats.

    Yes, the transfer of wealth from the worker to the boss.

    ……DANIEL ALTMAN
    The Bad Bargain
    Is the declining value of labor behind the dangerous rise in income inequality?…….

    http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2013/12/10/the_bad_bargain_income_inequality

    Mr. Abbott, the market does not ensure fairness for all. In fact, it has to have losers, along with the winners.

  77. More lies.

    …………..Labor has accused the Abbott government of exaggerating welfare spending to justify cuts, pointing to figures that show Australia spends less on welfare than most developed nations.
    Figures compiled by the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development show Australia’s spending on welfare benefits last year accounted for 8.6 per cent of national economic output – well below the OECD average of 13 per cent.
    Of 34 industrialised nations, only Iceland, which spent 7.3 per cent of GDP on payments, put a smaller level of economic output into welfare than Australia

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/labor-says-coalitions-plan-to-cut-welfare-benefits-not-justified-20140124-31e9d.html#ixzz2rNXDQ35k…….

  78. “What marks would any lecturer give that speech?”

    Minus 5. He probably managed to get his name right. What a fool. The question should be asked, why do people hold Rhodes scholars in such high esteem when it produces imbeciles like Abbott? This speech, well it wasn’t so much a speech as it was really , the ramblings of an imbecile. I have heard better speeches from the drunken best man at a wedding. What a tedious joke it is all becoming.

    I am getting close to seventy, I think I just might nominate myself for a Rhodes scholarship, I reckon I’m quids in to pass any course with honours.

    Last week I couldn’t spell lawyer and now I are one. Give me strength.

  79. Yes Phil, I believe we have many more things to worry about, than a few boatloads of homeless refugees, trying to find a better life for their kids.

    One of the biggest, is a carve up of the pie to Labour. Now either going offshore, or to machines.

  80. “Yes Phil, I believe we have many more things to worry about, than a few boatloads of homeless refugees, trying to find a better life for their kids.”

    Indeed we do. A dark cloud has descended down onto Australia with the Abbott government. We are headed for troubled times, I just hope that wiser heads prevail in the Labor and union movement in the dark days to come, and they don’t play into the hands of the corrupt rotten media in this country. There are going to be a lot of unhappy people over the next few months, that is a certainty. I really did think that the legacy of Maggie Thatcher was dead, I was wrong.

  81. Tbere must be somewhere, that likes what Abbott said.

    ……….AUSTRALIANS WATCHED TONY ABBOTT fly off to Switzerland this week to deliver an important speech to world leaders with muted anticipation. Commentary in advance ranged between frank pessimism and outright dismay.

    It is clear now the PM failed to live up to those expectations.

    Fortunately, the damage done to Australia’s reputation was limited by most media declining even to mention the Abbott embarrassment.

    The New York Times has extensive coverage of the World Economic Forum (WEF) in Davos, with a dedicated web page and many feature articles exploring the key themes and major players. None mentions Abbott — who, by virtue of the high regard for his predecessor, finds himself the accidental president of the G20 for 2014.

    Le T.

    http://www.independentaustralia.net/politics/politics-display/abbotts-davos-disaster,6098

  82. @ Fed up – I agree with you – and its tell em go home. Like that Lebanese man who took some of his dead kids back with him. He emphatically stated he left Lebanon for a better life, not persecution. He wasn’t a refugee, and neither are most of them.

    Look at Sarah Hyphen-Persons break down in the Senate – crying over some 18 year old having to sell $20,000 in jewellry in Iran – that’s like saying Gina’s daughter had to sell hers.

  83. Yes Fed up- America, Russia and Europe have suffered extreme heat this winter, that’s why its called global warming. Even New Zealand has has record lows for summer – but you wont hear that from the warming alarmists.

  84. I hadn’t realised you support the murder of Christians in Aceh province that SBY and Marty have a hand in. Nor have I see you complain about Christian churches not being able to be built in Indonesia.

  85. I suppose who cshould have pointed out that the half-white president of the US has higher unemployment than since the GFC. He has also managed to kill more blacks in ghettos with his jobs policies – he thinks gang members are kosher. Have you ever heard him call them out. He says they’re all the sons he wanted to have.

  86. Agree Phil – seems Hawkey’s expertise was in drinking schooners and screwing women behind Hazel’s back !!!!!!!

  87. I’m looking forward to the credit-card holding union execs taking a pay cut as their membership dwindle. These dweebs dont seem to reognise that their policies are losing jobs. Bosses dont have to stay here – they can move offshore. No we have the AMWU saying we’ll talk to Toyota but our 4hr Red Cross is non-negotiable as well as union training for our thugs by Toyota. Looking forward to their closure on that basis.

  88. Even New Zealand has has record lows for summer – but you wont hear that from the warming alarmists.

    That interested me, so I searched for it on Google. Sorry, couldn’t find it. :(

  89. I seem to recall tears, great tears from Hockey and Co, saying that children would only go to Malaysia over his dead body. Appears it appears it is OK to send them back in small disposal life boats, even if one has to enter Indonesian waters to do so.

    Where did I say anything about sending them back, I thought what I said, there are many ore important things to attract our intention, than a few desperate people in leaky boats,.. If one is really concerned, one cooperates with others in the region.

  90. “Agree Phil – seems Hawkey’s expertise was in drinking schooners and screwing women behind Hazel’s back !!!!!!!”

    Look me old China, it is fairly obvious you are taking the piss to get a rise on this ere lefty blog, but Geez mate, you wont get a rise out of me with Bob Hawke. He was a bit lacking in the morality stakes. I know it would be a big ask, but if you want the guff on ol Bob read John Pilger’s ‘ A Secret Country’ Yes he is a trendy lefty but he gives you a real insight into the goings on, of the Hawke years.

    But Hawke and Abbott being Rhodes scholars is where the similarity ends. Hawke was an intellectual and a great communicator. Abbott is an imbecile. Even those on your side of the ledger must be cringing at his very name. Much to my dis-pleasure they are going to offload this imbecile called Abbott, because they will no doubt give the Turdball a go. Yes, he will come across as the new improved model, but as you know, you can’t polish a turd. Yes, it will make it harder for us to win, no doubt about that. After Abbott’s performance at Davos the dog and bones in Canberra will be running hot. His days are numbered, but feel free to insult my intelligence.

  91. @phil – “but feel free to insult my intelligence”

    How could I – it’s like dividing infinity into zero mate !!!!!!

  92. “How could I – it’s like dividing infinity into zero mate !!!!!!”

    Too true. But hey, that still makes me smarter than you by an order of magnitude.

  93. Phil and,

    Much to my dis-pleasure they are going to offload this imbecile called Abbott, because they will no doubt give the Turdball a go.

    Many including myself had been predicting a Turnbull takeover any tick of the clock, those ticks mostly relating to whatever was Abbott’s latest ignorant comment, doing his noddies etc and etc. However Turnbull whimped every single time. The Backers did not care about the mess Abbott was going to create, only the $s in it for themselves. Therefore as long as the Libs were in a winning position (in spite of Abbott’s continuous unpopularity), they were prepared to cover for him..and continue to attempt to do so. BUT if the polls say “loser” continuously and entering into ’15, then watch the Murdoch media drop Abbott. It’s going to be fun to watch. ;)

  94. ” It’s going to be fun to watch.”

    Indeed it is. What the Australian people were thinking when they voted for this moron, will have intellectuals baffled for fifty years. Still as you already know, there was a concerted campaign to get rid of Labor from the media the like of which has never been seen before. Even the Whitlam dismissal didn’t match the propaganda thrown about. We will see if they treat this government the same, I am not holding my breath.

  95. phil you only see the difference the media are treating State Liberal Emergency Services Minister Kim Wells to the way crucified the Labor appointed Police Commissioner Christine Nixon for the same thing.

    Nixon went to a restaurant during the Black Saturday fires and was hounded out of office by the media for doing so. The media were relentless and vicious in their attacks even well after she stood down.

    Now we have not only Wells but the local Liberal member for the district affected by major fires going to the tennis whilst the fire emergency was underway. Wells defended himself by using the same excuse Nixon did in stating he was in touch by phone at all times with the emergency services, but the difference between the two reactions to that excuse could not be more pronounced.

    The media have mostly left Wells alone and only published a few bylines when the story became more widespread amongst the public and a backlash was mounting and the Labor opposition leader spoke out. The Premier, unlike the previous Liberal opposition leader during the Nixon incident, has been sedate and only after the growing backlash stated he stood by his minister whilst giving him a verbal slap on the wrist. That seemed good enough for the media when no punishment was enough for Nixon, not even being sacked.

    In the meantime the errant local Liberal minister has been bypassed and let off Scott free by everyone.

    Now we have the story, at least mentioned by the ABC on the back of the Labor opposition raising it, that Wells went to a senior government meeting in Uluru but instead of attending that meeting sent his secretary along whilst he went sight seeing and played tourist. Again a tame response from the media whereas if it had been a Labor minister I have no doubt the media would have been feral.

    A couple of things from this. The difference in the treatment of a female minister or appointee to an equivalent male counterpart, and the huge difference the media treat a story of malfeasance by a Liberal or National Party member than any of the other parties, especially Labor.

  96. the huge difference the media treat a story of malfeasance by a Liberal or National Party member than any of the other parties, especially Labor.

    I see the same ME. I also note the difference in how what is said by the respective leaders is parsed into the dialog
    tabots brainfarts are wither simply regurgitated without a further thought, that is, it is accepted as some kind of truth, or else it “well, that’s just our tony”

    Gillard, and then Rudd, were questioned and challenged over EVRY thing that was said. It would not matter if it was a simple statement about the weather, it would be challenged and generally dismissed as wrong (with no thought given to facts)

    I have seen a few articles berating tabots Davos rant, but not much from our esteemed msm. Simple parrotiing

    I did like this one from IA, who highlighted some of the more obvious clangers

    He asserted that the global financial crisis (GFC) “was not a crisis of markets but one of governance.”

    And then boasted of Australia,

    “To boost private sector growth and employment, the new government is cutting red tape …”

    Okay. That makes sense.

    http://www.independentaustralia.net/politics/politics-display/abbotts-davos-disaster,6098

    The article also destroys the part of his speech where he carried domestic politics into the international stage AGAIN and tried to claim that Labor’s stimulus was a waste.

    When will we see that kind of highlighting in the msm

  97. Much greater Indonesian Naval presence is a really good thing for Aust.
    Should have happened long ago. Indonesia will have to acknowledge the
    Presence of Boat People and how they pass through Indonesian Territory.
    How do you land at an Indonesian airport without any travel docs or Passport.
    You don’t – boat people chuck all ID overboard , another con.

  98. I’m also wondering about the hom(p)son case. I understand that he is not defending any specific charges, not because he accepts them, but because defending them individually is far too costly.

    I was wondering if anyone can recall if the charges were initially about the brothels, and if he was going to specifically defend them, but that, with the vast amount of charges laid, he is now just running with the overarching defense that his card had no restrictions on it?

  99. I spent the ’80s looking at the bottom of schooner glasses so my memories of events at that time are a bit hazy. But I have to say the latest Abbott’s numbingly simplistic utterances in that low speed, talking to a kindergarten class delivery he now affects reminds me of Ronnie Reagan. Anyone?

  100. “phil you only see the difference the media are treating State Liberal Emergency Services Minister Kim Wells to the way crucified the Labor appointed Police Commissioner Christine Nixon for the same thing.”

    Indeed. I remember the whole incident. The media in this country is an utter joke, the conservative forces not satisfied with their hold and total control on the private media, have now filled the ABC up with their stooges. I only watch the news now on the ABC to get the weather. The compares of the 7.30 report and late line make my skin utterly crawl, such is my dislike for these people. They don’t even try to hide the bias now. Interesting months ahead.

  101. Not addressing Abbott’s widely and internationally condemned idiot speech, if you can call it that, then Village Idiot?

    Just throw in another throw back to Labor in a very lame and inane look over there at them and please don’t look at my beloved fool of a leader that I mindlessly voted for and follow.

    Someone is living in lala land and it definitely isn’t Gillard, goes by the initials TVI (R) and another who goes by the name of TA.

  102. VOYAGER what do you think of Liberal ministers being at the tennis during a bushfire emergency when a Labor appointee got hounded out of office for a similar thing?

    I’d also like to know your opinion of Liberal ministers openly rorting entitlements and admitting as much but refusing to pay any of the rorted money back?

  103. I am of the belief that most of the brothel charges were based in NSW and dropped by the magistrate. In spite of this, the prosecution proceded with evidence, down that line. In fact the brothel owner was not called by either party. He volunteered to give evidence. The magistrate allowed, but soon told him to sit down.

    At the end of the day, it appears that there is no more than $6000 over many years, that could be a problem.

    There was not any smoking gun that pointed to Thomson’s guilt.

    It has to be proved by any reasonable doubt. Might have more success if they stayed with FWA, where the evidence only needed to be probable.

    What was clear, if Thomson is guilty, Jackson is more so. As she revealed on the stand, she followed similar practices on a much grander scale.

    Still no one is saying whether he is guilty, That is up to the courts.

    Saying that, I do not see him going to jail. I am sure that Abbott can keep the matter going with his extensive investigation into the HSU, in spite of all being tested in court. Well, not all. One wonders if they will follow through with Jackson, plus her boyfriend. Suspect not.

  104. We still have the closing statements to come. Maybe they will show some light on the matter. Not much shown up to now.

    If I was Thomson, I would not be interested at this time, with clearing my name, but being found not guilty. Time down the track to defend the allegations of the brothels. It is said he was on the other side of the country, on many of the alleged dates.

  105. I agree Fed up – it’s a well known fact that part of the employment contract of union secretaries is their entitlement to unlimited brothel expenditure. It’s was the ALp is all about – screw the union members. Wonder how many other union secs hav done the same ????

  106. “Dreyfus QC accepted free tickets to the tennis from Big Oil – Shell – what a hypocrite ”

    Still better that than accepting tickets to a wedding care of the taxpayer, let me see how many went? You give a new meaning to the word stupid. Here’s a hot flash for ya dopey, they’re all at it, and have been since the Greeks gave the world democracy. It just a matter of degree. Your mob make it an art form and always have. I’ve got you figured for about being sixteen years old.

  107. That’s the point phil, that the gormless right wingers just don’t get and never will. Any proven malfeasance is wrong and should be dealt with equally by all who are found guilty of it. We call out the proven wrongdoings whether Labor, Liberal or Labrador, but not the right wingers. Their blind mindless ideology forgives every error, wrongdoing, stuff up, broken promise, lie, deceit and criminality of their beloved party and its leaders, no matter how stupid they are, but call for the harshest punishments for the same things from anyone else, even if they are just rumours or made up charges with no evidence.

    Then in a perfect example of their projection they call others hypocrites, the hypocrites they constantly prove themselves to be.

    What a joke they are.

  108. “That’s the point phil, that the gormless right wingers just don’t get and never will.”

    Exactly toooooo true. I have never defended corrupt politicians on my side of politics. Unlike right wingers, who can have a prima facia case of corruption staring them in the kisser and still, they trot out the same old hackneyed excuses.

    You can give them a thousand examples of corruption, media bias, the facts on how they have gerrymandered their way into power since federation, but no, it all falls on deaf ears.

    The best bit is, our village idiot try’s to tar all union leaders with the same brush. We have a lot of corrupt coppers, but they ‘re not all corrupt. Some Judges are as corrupt as the day is long, Doctors fleecing Medicare, etc. etc. etc. it is the society we live in.

    The thing is, you will never get through to right wingers, most of them are as dumb as a bag of hammers. There is no more a glaring example of how stupid they really are than with ‘Global Warming’ debate. The world’s scientists by a country mile, thousands of them, are telling us it is a reality. But no, some f%^& head who works at some used car dealership knows better. It indeed boggles the mind.

  109. “Phil, I think that Timothy the Village Idiot of Currumbin is a tad older than sixteen.”

    I was talking about his mental capacity not his physical age.

    O/K 16 and nine months. :)

  110. A lot of interesting reading there at pinterest. I have never seen a backlash against a government in social media like I have with this one. I hope that portends well for the elections.

  111. China Post.

    Telling isn’t it that whilst the right wingers keep trying to bring up ancient unproven and vexatious allegations against Labor they constantly ignore the current massive stuff up that’s their beloved Abbott, who has screwed up royally on the world stage, so much so he’s turned Australia into a laughing stock or a country to be denigrated, when once it was one to be lauded.

    The Liberal government led by the village idiot Abbott managed that in a scant few months.

  112. Does one really believe that the Power of Attorney could ever lead to jail The most would be a slap on the wrist.

    At worst, it was a procedure that was at fault. No one suggested, including the proven criminal that made the charges, that it was bogus. Just a small problem in how it was drawn up. Yes, that criminal it is the only one that’s seen the money, buries it, and whose names are on all documents.

    Even if proven in court, not hardly the crime of the century. One that police would have justified the money, that is said, being spent at this time.

    That could be the reason no one is listening, nor the MSM takes the matter up. It is simply of little consequences. Old news at that.

    Same goes for the investigation, that is going to cost many millions, that Abbott is set up. Nothing much there to reveal, but will be handy around the next election.

    Then the unexpected could happen. All could be found to be in the clear.

    Then that witness, might have problems coming back to give evidence. After all, the ex wife did say, she would see he went to jail if he did. Her words were enough to force him to leave quickly last time he was here.

    As for the brothel allegations, you can blame the police for the matters being dropped by the magistrate. They did not get their law right.

    The thing I do not understand, why do you not want Jackson; s former husband charge for similar complaints. One he admitted to, and paid back the money, at the assistance of Thomson.

    Wha6t I find hard to understand, why Thomson would go after Jackson, then commit the same crimes himself. Have not seen any evidence that Thomson is stupid.

    You are wasting your time, no one is interested in rumours from ancient history.

    One has to have evidence to get convictions in court. Yes, evidence that is beyond reasonable doubt.

    The man we need to focus on now, the one that can cause harm, the one in the driver’s seat, Mr., Abbott.

    One some do not seem to be able to talk about, or defend.

    At least over the life of the Labor government most here took the time to defend it. Not so with this mob.

  113. Another inconvenient fact, a certain person might consider. The throw away lines are not smart, just plain boring.

  114. Another inconvenient fact, a certain person might consider. The throw away lines are not smart, just plain boring.

    This becomes quickly clear, when one makes a casual Google of most of what he says, or stands for. Not sure what the latter is.

    Sometime, I feel, he has not worked this one out himself,. If so, has not given it much thought.

  115. This man did have a half caste daughter, as he describes them

    Is this the Australia we are turning back into?

  116. That man also said that he had no sympathy for those who dies in his Blue Abestos mines, as someone had to dig out the mineral..

    I can still see him clearly saying that well over a half century ago. For some reason, I have never forgotten, such an impression it had on me at the time.]

    Could be about the time, I began to grow up politically speaking.

  117. “Could be about the time, I began to grow up politically speaking.”

    I think you are doing just fine. In the same ere as Hancock, A member of the Liberal party who was running in a seat with predominately Aboriginals, was sprung delivering wine into the district in 44 gallon drums. These scum bags, these paragons of virtue, these law and order cretins, these conservative born to rule mentality wowsers, will say and do anything to get power.

    The real kicker is, they rule for an elite group of people. The working class that support them, are useful idiots. Abbott and his coterie of babbling baboons will do for this country. When the financial crash comes, and it will, people will learn what it is to live under conservative austerity policies. I just hope they are gone, before the shit house goes up in flames.

  118. Truth seekers great poem full of truth and information
    Describes how Abbott in short time is sure to ruin the nation
    For mine I like more cursing and swearing in any little ditty
    Tony Abbott the emaciated runt! the same as Walter Mitty.

    The election is still three years off still time to do us in
    Tony Abbott should be consigned histories rubbish bin
    So Bill Shorten listen in get your political act together
    The nation is in peril and we are in for a lot of nasty weather.

  119. Well, I did have an advantage when it comes to Aborigines. I was reared in a home, where they were always employed. Yes, even visited those camps, not on the edge of town, but way out in the bush. Knew what Cootamundra Girls home stood for.

    Yes, a grandmother who delivered their babies, a century before.

    Even knew a Miss English, at the Aborigine Protection Board. NSW.

    They were always looked after and treated well by my family. Ate at the table lived in the home.

    What was sad, my grandfather seen them as children, not adults. In this, he was wrong, very wrong.

    It hit me one day, watching dad trying to get some work out of an Aborigine young man, on the dairy he owned, Yes, these people are not stupid. No one made them do any work, they did not want to do. Yes, wonderful cattle men. They love the life.

    Yes, these people were never really enslaved. Now that takes some doing.

    As for the dairy, I am afraid my mother lost her help in the home. The young lady transferred herself to the dairy and outside work. That is where she wanted to be.

    PS. My mother was not lazy, just disabled from TB of the spine, that ate away at vertebrates and an enlarged heart. Was unable to do more house work, not that I suspect she liked.

    Yes, they are very good at being passive aggressive. Many mistook this for being weak and backwards. They were wrong.

    PS. This is only my feelings, of connection, of living with these people. Is not what they were.

    Now have three beautiful grandsons with their blood in their veins.

    How could the man above say they should be sterilized and allow to breed out, when he himself had a daughter of one?

    Turned out a very nice person, I believe.

  120. I think I wrote the dribble above to point out, these people are not apart from \our society, but a part of it.

    We chose to close our eyes to their needs, until they began speaking up for themselves.

    That had to be hard.

    Even those, who treated them decently, found excuses to close their eyes to their unfair plight.

    I remember one funny episode, when about 9 or 10. Seeing a man poking through the boot of my father’s custom Ford, when entering a reserve to pick up new help. I, at the age, was highly indignant, that anyone could search my father, or accuse him of smuggling. Smuggling what, I had no idea of at the time. Remember, we do not have TV as todays kids do. I just knew it was wrong. Cannot recall either my mother or father complaining. It was just being.

    I also recall when about four. Me and my three year old sister was in the Cootamundra Swimming Pool, as we travelled through the town.

    Everyone began leaving the pool. I jumped up, pulling my sister behind, only to be told harshly by my mother to go back. Yes, the exodus was caused by those young girls from the Cootamundra Girls Home.

    it was only when I was older, that I understood what happened. Mum could afford to be cheeky. She did not live in the town. It was unlikely she would be back.

  121. I was in the north of South Australia before the 67 referendum. Aboriginals were treated like animals by most whites, the key again is I said most. The alcohol the white man was happy to sell them then, as now, destroyed a whole generation.

    I was more or less sent to Coventry at the time for speaking to them. The white men would chase the Aboriginals girls and ply them with drink for sex. It was pathetic it was an observation of people with no feelings or humanity. In a word scum.

    I have seen Aboriginal women give birth to babies in burnt out motor vehicles, their children’s eyes rotten with conjunctivitis infested with flies, with a constant flow of snot running from their noses. Naked as the day they were born or in rags.

    This was all still going on in 1970 when I left. We as a people should hang our heads in shame for what we have done to these people. SORRY just doesn’t cut it.

    This experience and later in the north of W.A. gave me an insight to the racism that is still alive and well in Australia. The boat people, the fear, the hatred, the names, I’ve seen it all before then it was the Aboriginals, the Italians, the Greeks, the English, the Vietnamese, and now the asylum seekers.

    The only Aboriginals Abbott or Morrison have had any experience with, are dressed in suits with letters after their names. They both wouldn’t know the difference between shit and clay.

    End of rant.

  122. Phil, I had similar treatment when I worked in Central Queensland, asa Goverance on a large property. About 1960. I was not impressed, but learnt what Palm Island meant to these people. Ignore us, that is where you will end up. Nothing subtle about it at all.

    The families I worked for, treated their people reasonably well, but never stood up for them, when they should.

  123. “So you’re a racist Phil. Denying the human right of an Aborigine to drink ????”

    Go away you imbecile, please just go away.

  124. Fed up. Well thankfully attitudes are slowly changing, I don’t think the latest generation was as racist as ours????????? Time will tell. Thank God imbeciles like the village idiot although vocal, are still in the minority. The current debate is being driven by a small percentage of rednecks. My only concern is, we have an incident with Indonesia, Abbott will be seen in the same light by his base as a clone of the biggest moron to come down the pike. George Bush.

  125. Having lived and worked in Collarenebri, Dubbo, Wellington and Bathurst for 20 odd years, I think I know a lot more about Aborigines than you ever will. It is a great life pontificating over Aboriginal welfare sipping your soy latte reading the Silly Moaning Herld.

  126. Phil, I feel that most of my generation was just ignorant.

    As a small child born 1941, I spent much time in the city, because of family illness,

    Yes, the racism was rife. I also noticed a funny thing as I grew, always managing to be in areas where migrants abounded. One began to hear how bad they were, but with the rider, not Jane or Joe down the road. They are good people, not like the rest.

    Once again, the visitor reduces the topic of alcohol. Does he not know, that overall, they are the lowest drinkers in the land. Yes, those that drink have big, big problems, but the majority do not drink.

    In fact, during my 13 year old hell of a marriage, that was my household. Not a black in sight.

    Alcoholism is a symptom, not a cause within itself.

  127. Phil I suspect the Indonesians have more sense than many give them credit for. In this case they know it is Abbott and not Australians generally. They know how we tick, I suspect better than we do ourselves.

  128. Yes, you would be the expert. How could one know more than you. All I can talk about, is those I have come in contact with. With those who have married into the family. What would I know.

    What I do know, there are many different types, as there are whites. Yes, they all think differently. All come from different places.

    Yes, the expert on all has spoken. We are again wrong.

  129. Oh no the right wing I know more because I’ve been there meme and you know nothing because you drink latte.

    rolls eyes.

    Not even going into the fact that a survey showed that conservatives drink far more lattes than progressives.

  130. Never sipped Latte. Too busy surviving for that. Not my style anyway. How many loos did you clean, in your working life. How many cars did you detail for starters.

    I have a list a mile long, if you are interested. I am sure, you have never attempted any. It is amazing when one is desperate, at the bottom of the pile, what one will and has to do, to earn a quid, yes earn.

  131. ME, I can only say, the man is a joke. Has no idea how many live.

    One thing for sure, one could lay a bet on it, they always end up on the personal attack.
    It amazes that anyone following me, could see me as a lady, wasting time, sipping coffee.

    Make better at home.

    Just not me. Does not fit in with anything I have ever written,.

  132. “Alcoholism is a symptom, not a cause within itself.”

    I can’t speak for NSW but alcohol is a big problem in S.A. W.A. and the N.T. the Alice is a national scandal. But hey things can only improve. Btw contrary to the presumption the village idiot made, I have never said Aboriginals shouldn’t drink.

    You can only educate, what in the end happens is up to the people concerned. We should not keep imposing our own culture on them. They are capable of working out their own destiny. I’m done.

  133. To the village idiot, your next contact with an Aboriginal will be your second, having given up hope on the first. As for you working for twenty years pull the other one. I would be surprised if you are twenty, much less worked twenty years. All of your comments are lifted straight off Wikipedia. Your only contact with anything over the last twenty years, has been your penis. Which is something I’m sure you could do a thesis on. Now go back to Menzies house with the other mental defects.

  134. Phil, did not explain myself well. Alcohol is a sign of much worse being wrong. One has to fix the underlying problems first. Otherwise, one is only putting bandages on a sore that will not heal.

    It is the alcohol that one sees. There is much more going on, that one does not see,

    Also a big problem in the white community. Just better hidden.

  135. In fact, none that I know, lead a tribal existence, It is not if that lifestyle is still an option. It is not.

  136. “In fact, none that I know, lead a tribal existence, It is not if that lifestyle is still an option. It is not.”

    Well they still do in the N.T. and W.A .

    I want them to choose their own destiny. If we pay them social welfare, well, I call that rent. At the end of the day it is still their country, we are just guests here.

    As for the alcohol I agree with you. That doesn’t mean I want them to drink themselves to death. Where I live, it is now not unusual to see mixed couples aboriginal’s and whites, maybe hope springs eternal, but you’re right our generation was ignorant lets all hope for better outcomes for the future, after all we are not going any where soon and neither are they.

  137. Well Fuck Me Drunk VOYAGER-Brisbane-Sydney…… *BOWS*
    (…….. well fuck me ……. there really is hope :D ) … woo-hoo… as an Australian I have always seen the light at the end of the tunnel….. thanks V.B.S. for…well ???…… just thanx alright… don’t push it, mm!!! :lol: :razz:

  138. I wonder what he thinks the governments has failed with over forty years. Could it be also us people who have failed. Is he referring to our inbuilt racism, or to the plight of the Aborigines. One leads to the other.

    At the end of the day, we are a part of governing.

    In a democracy, everyone is responsible.

    Still, I nearly fell off my chair, when I read what he wrote, For once he seemed to be treating us as human. Yes, it is nice.

  139. “But just shows how judgemental you folk can be of me!”

    You certainly ask for it with those inane posts that scream out, “please judge me as a blind right wing ideologue who hasn’t a clue.”

  140. Todays effort from our government.

    .Small and medium businesses locked out of ‘direct action’, Coalition warned
    Coalition’s emissions reduction fund is ‘unlikely to be able to be accessed by small to medium enterprises for building upgrades and energy efficiency’, according to Senate submission..

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/27/direct-action-risks-failure-if-the-ret-is-scrapped-coalition-warned?CMP=ema_follow

    I thought that Gillard passed leglistion on this one.

    ….Indigenous recognition referendum: Tony Abbott refuses to set a deadline
    Prime minister says: ‘We want it to happen as quickly as possible but a rushed job might be a botched job’..

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/27/indigenous-recognition-referendum-tony-abbott-refuses-to-set-a-deadline?CMP=ema_632

  141. Another problem that all seem to be ignoring.

    …All’s quiet on the Nauru front
    By Julian Burnside
    Posted Wed 22 Jan 2014, 2:54pm AEDT

    Asylum seekers have been told they may have to stay in Nauru for as long as five years.
    PHOTO: Asylum seekers have been told they may have to stay in Nauru for as long as five years. (Torsten Blackwood: AFP)
    Why has the Australian government been so quiet about what amounts to the collapse of the rule of law in Nauru? Julian Burnside wagers an explanation.

    It can be said without exaggeration that the rule of law has collapsed in Nauru. The chief magistrate has been expelled from the country, in defiance of an injunction issued by the chief justice of Nauru. The Chief Justice (who lives in Melbourne) tried to return to Nauru, but the government cancelled his visa. Now Nauru has appointed a new chief magistrate, without consulting the chief justice as required. All of this has happened, it seems, because the former chief magistrate has made rulings which the government of Nauru did not welcome.

    Th…..

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-01-22/burnside-all-is-quiet-on-the-nauru-front/5212874?WT.mc_id=newsmail

    Voyager, I thought I was being kind to you. After all, we know you have views that are in opposition to ours. Yes, voyager, from where I am sitting, that is OK. It is just the personal attacks that one finds hard to take.

    We can only judge you by the words you pen, Sorry

  142. Maybe it is time for an inquiry to be made into the dismantling of the CES by Howard, and the NGO and private employment bodies that replace it.

    If the unemployed are remaining on the dole, which I question with suspicion, could not the problem be, the employment agencies set up by government

    How many years is it now. Must be over a decade. Have not heard as good word from anyone, in relation to the system we have now.

    Yes, some, as we have seen with the Rudds, have become very wealthy.

    We still have, if we listen to Andrews, big problems with young, long unemployment.

    Yes time for Abbott to set up a 42 inquiry into how the government deals with the unemployed.

  143. A long but interesting read :-
    “As noted by Marr &
    Wilkinson (2003), Prime Minister John Howard
    effectively blurred the distinction between waging a
    war on terrorism and waging a war on ‘‘boat people’’.
    Marr & Wilkinson note further that much of
    Australian talkback radio linked the September 11
    terrorists with Muslim asylum seekers trying to push
    their way into Australia. Of note, only one person
    from over 13 000 asylum seekers in Australia was
    seen as a security threat in 2001, and he arrived by air
    (Edmund Rice Centre for Justice and Community
    Education, 2002).”
    http://iaha.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/000199_attitudetowardsindaus.pdf

  144. @fed up – As usual Julian Burnside is talking through proverbial. Section 9(4) of the Courts Act 1972 states that “The resident magistrate shall be appointed by the President”.

    Jools never lets facts in the way of his rose coloured view of the law.

    Based on his legal thoughts, no one would be in detention, yet he has never raised that before the High Court.

    And according to section 10(2) of the Act, the magistrate can be sacked as he is unable to attend Court, given his visa is revoked. That means he’s unable to perform hi duties.

  145. Tell me it’s not true. Please.

    From a friend:

    “I watched part of Abbott’s press conference today and I heard him seriously inform a questioning journo that, seriously inform a questioning journo that, yes, the Navy can accidently and inadvertently stray into Indonesian territory, with the modern and super fleet we have. With all the modern technology, because…..there are always going to be strong winds blowing and tides a-surging anywhere and everywhere. Well, of course they can get blown and dragged off course.”

    OMFG.

  146. He really is a dumb fuckwit isn’t he.

    No other words for Abbott come to mind. I’ve been in cyclones and hurricanes on warships, and mind you this was pre-GPS, dedicated military satellites, netcentric warfare systems and situational awareness, and we always knew where we were.

    There was the Captain of the HMAS Perth though who misjudged where Tasmania was.

    http://www.hmasperth.asn.au/images/Perth_in_Hobart.jpg

  147. Gee, Abbott’s private polls must be bad. Now we have Abbott out, calling his praise. This morning, the Building Unions allegations. No matter, they were not6 the union, but the builders themselves. Then we had National Security, along with the GG announcement.

    Wonder what will be next,

    I forgot, also the judicial or is it a royal commission into the AWU and the sins of the previous PM.

    They are outdoing themselves.

    Gee, Abbott is standing before the journalist at a PC. Well the Fairfax young bloke had to be given a chance at glory.

    Howard, yes will answer questions re corruption in building unions. Yes, Abbott did indeed create the ABBC court. Courts that take away ones right to silence,

    After all, anything goes when it comes to a union.
    Good, the transmission broke.

  148. I wonder what part Cosgrove had in the matters that are before the court, while in Timor.

    By the way, those allegations of corruption and violence is in the Construction Industry. Industry, not union.

    Wonder why police a reluctance to take action. Could it be, there is little real evidence. You know, what one needs to take to court.

  149. Did one notice, there was not that interested in our new GG wife by the PM.. Yes, bent to kiss her, looking away before he finished.

  150. If our navy ships are being blown off shore. What in the hell is happening to those ancient wooden overcrowded fishing boats.

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