The media must be seeing a different Tony than me

Like everybody else I’ve been reading the papers with interest over the last couple of weeks.  I’ve noticed that they’ve been falling over themselves in a rush to tell us how evil Prime Minister Rudd and his Government are and luckily for us, the future PM, Tony Abbott, is as pure as the driven snow. Over the next couple of weeks he is sure to be elevated to deity status. If not already, he will be enshrined as the greatest human being to have walked the earth.

Under an Abbott Government there will be no unemployment, poverty, boats or blood-sucking unions. Businesses will prosper and huge wages will be thrown willingly and recklessly around. And of course, mining will boom. Billionaires will be made.

Everybody loves Tony Abbott. Mothers line up with their babies to be kissed by his golden lips. He is the perfect father, the perfect husband, the perfect man. Under his prime ministership Australia will win a record haul of Olympic gold medals. We’ll win the World Cup of whatever sport you can name.

And world leaders, it goes without saying, will want to rub shoulders with him.

OK, I’m exaggerating, but you can’t disagree that he’s the media golden boy. He’s the Prime Minister we have to have. Well, who they want us to have, at least. That’s why they promote him as the man who can do no wrong.

But it’s not how I see him. This is what I see:

  • A leader who displays breathtaking incompetence.
  • A leader who policy barren.
  • A leader who has not shown he is fit to be the alternative Prime Minister.
  • A leader who is totally unprepared for the election.
  • A person who regularly embarrasses himself on both the national and international stage.
  • A politician who shows more loyalty to the elite few ahead of the wider electorate.
  • A politician who has no interest in the opportunities of the future.
  • A person who is out of touch with the majority of Australians.
  • An extreme radical.
  • A leader who can’t sustain media and public scrutiny without ‘cracking’.
  • A habitual liar and back-flipper.
  • A person who is out of touch with reality.
  • A political leader who lacks direction.
  • A politician who ignores that we belong in a global community and wants to remain isolationist.
  • A gutless person.
  • And finally, a complete idiot who cannot make a public appearance without being stage managed.

The media definitely must be seeing a different Tony Abbott to the one I see. How do you see him?

English: Tony Abbott in 2010.

(Photo credit: Wikipedia)

428 comments on “The media must be seeing a different Tony than me

  1. If I cared less about Australia and Australians I would say Abbott being elected would be a good thing as it will show people who incompetent that really are.

    The economy is still fragile and needs care not abuse.

    Sadly it will be the small people, families, low income earners, pensioners and the disadvantaged who pay the highest price for his experiments in Thatcherism and and Reaganomics.

    While it lasts the Murdoch press will take on the Stalinist propaganda role of trumpeting every disaster as a great national success and blaming the enemies of the state as responsible for anything that goes wrong.

  2. Channel 7 Sunday Night not singing the praises of Abbott but of Hockey.

    It is a pure snow job making out Hockey is the greatest politician we have ever seen. Honest (I kid you not), full of integrity and bravery.

    When the propaganda continued after an ad break, so a full two thirds of the show was dedicated to praising Hockey, I turned the TV off and picked up a book.

  3. Must be something terrible wrong with my eyes. All I see is a bumbling, incompetent and rude man, with no respect for truth, that believes he was born to be either pope or PM. Failed at the first. One can only hope, he also has a similar outcome,when it comes to the latter.

  4. It is a very scary time, whilst the election has been coming not so much to worry about and hope that he would be challenged.
    Now that the election is here I am really worried. Very scared about what will happen if the polls are corrct and he does indeed win.

    I just do not understand how easiy the lies, innuendo and unsubstantiated tripe that falls out of the mouths of Abbot, Bishop and Hockey is so easily swallowed.

    I am equally frustrated that the government has done such a woeful job of actually telling the story of its successes. (I guess that is in itself very difficult given the media environment) But surely they could have spoken more loudly about the reality of the debt levels the great state we are in in comparrison to the rest of the world.

    I am quite scared and wonder quite seriously what will become of us.

  5. Michael T. – really blinkered, thought the list was of Kevin Michael Rudds well
    and best known qualities.
    The road to perdition has 3 weeks to go. KMT not nearly as strong as Ms Gillard.
    She is much better organised and a better campaigner.Rudd looking very
    raggered and that temper tantrum will cut in to undo him.
    Good night nurse.

  6. Nothing’s changed. Voyager jumps into to any post to give us the same old same old. It used to be anti-Gillard, now it’s anti-Rudd.

    Voyager, if I ever do an anti-Rudd post I’ll let you know.

  7. VOYAGER I don’t know that it’s about Rudd or Gillard. Like it or not it’s RUDD V ABBOTT. Though it should be our local incumbert v the local challengers.

    Anyone can have a temper tantrum Lets not forget Tones’ throwing of punches at woman’s head when losing an election.

    What is scary is that the media seem not to care about the invovation of a return to White Australia, to the invocation of falicies about the state of the ecomomy, the invocation of false claims of numbers of refugees, and a desire to remove the basic human rights of people to a fair trial etc.

  8. I live in a Labor marginal seat that is being quoted as a win for the Libs on all the MSM. Our family has lived here for 65 years and there are lots of us. We own a business here and have two children voting in this election.

    The point of the biography is, between us, we come across a huge sample of the people who live here. They may have done a telephone poll but I dunno who the hell they spoke to because Coalition supporters are few and far between. NONE of my children’s friends would think of voting for Tony Abbott. Very few of our customers would either.

    The Liberal candidate bypassed preselection, parachuted in by Tony Abbott over the local candidate who only narrowly lost last time. This really annoyed the local Liberal Party. Then I read today that the Independent got the number 1 spot on the ballot paper and he had contacted both Labor and Liberal to talk preferences. The Liberal candidate didn’t even respond and he wasn’t impressed so he won’t be preferencing them.

    That is the truth on the ground rather than the crap you are hearing from Murdoch papers and the tv polls.

  9. abbott and his party are lying scum ,and will stop at nothing to get elected
    you only have to look at what they have done to mr thomson and mr slipper to see what they are capable of doing
    And to think the MSM have let them get away with it is a disgrace,
    Rudd needs to fight fire with fire if he doesn’t we are all doomed.
    independent australia has a great story that needs to be told regarding ASHBY/BROUGH

  10. The more i read, and i read a lot, the more worried i become about the possibility of the Coalition becoming the Govt in September. And it’s not because of the NBN or the PPLS or their Gonski Light or any other specific policy – it’s because of their Born To Rule attitude, their complete arrogance and the harm they will do by dragging us back into the mid 20th Century. They seem to have no common humanity. I see Tony Abbott exactly as you do above, perhaps even worse as i speak from a woman’s perspective.

  11. “If the Catholic Christian is convinced that the Pope in infallible in all religious and ethical matters, so we National Socialists declare with the same ardent conviction that for us too the Führer is absolutely infallible in all political and other matters. It is a blessing for Germany that in Hitler the rare union has taken place between the most acute logical thinker and truly profound philosopher and the iron man of action, tenacious to the limit.”  
    Goering.

    Consider the following Coalition policies:

    These policies will result in low- and middle-income earners paying billions of dollars more in tax while those on higher incomes receive billions in tax cuts and new benefits. Rather than take from the rich and give to the poor, the Coalition policies are a case of take from the poor and give to the rich. And this remains the case even taking into account the flow-on effects of the abolition of the carbon price and the funding of the Coalition’s paid maternity leave through a tax on big companies.
    ■ Lower the tax-free threshold from $18,200 to $6000. This will drag more than one million low-income earners back into the tax system. It will also increase the taxes for 6 million Australians earning less than $80,000.
    ■ Abolish the low-income superannuation contribution. This will reimpose a 15 per cent tax on superannuation contributions for people earning less than $37,000.
    ■ Abolish the proposed 15 per cent tax on income from superannuation above $100,000 a year. The combined effect of these two superannuation changes is that 16,000 high-income earners with superannuation savings in excess of $2 million will get a tax cut while 3.6 million workers earning less than $37,000 will pay more than $4 billion extra in tax on their super over the next four years.
    ■ Abolish the means test on the private health insurance rebate. This will deliver a $2.4 billion tax cut over three years for individuals earning more than $84,001 a year, or couples earning more than $168,001. People on lower incomes will receive no benefit.
    ■ Introduce a paid parental leave scheme that replaces a mother’s salary up to $150,000. To put it crudely, this means a low-income mum gets about $600 per week while a high-income mum gets close to $3000.
    ■ Abolish the means-tested School kids Bonus that benefits 1.3 million families by providing up to $410 for each primary school child and up to $820 for each high school child.

  12. A bumbling idiot who can’t even string two words together competently, a sexist, a bully, and openly toadying to the elite – even today out there selling his paid parental leave plan to the wealthy, who are the only ones to gain from it anyway. Once in, he will, in true small – l liberal form slash spending on the things we need the most – education, hospitals, infrastructure. The poor workers will get poorer and poorer, while the well-to- do whistle Dixie as the country goes to hell around them. He will push us close to, if not into, recession. Pay and workplace conditions will be decimated, and being a total technophobe his master stroke of genius will be saddling us to the antiquated, decaying copper network to push us into the future. He lies about “illegal” immigrants who are not illegal at all, and seems to have forgotten a huge swathe of immigrants who helped make this country what it is. He lacks compassion as shown by his constant ranting of “stop the boats”, ignoring the pleas of those fleeing from wars, harsh regimes and futures that are not futures. He would rather see a boat of men, women and children seeking asylum sunk rather than have it land here. The nan, and his party of sycophants in general, are nothing but disgusting. He dan’t debate, he dan’t speak in public, and has seemed for the last six years to be seen only in factories, making a fool of himself in a fluro vest, and preaching his doctrines to people he is not even interested in. This election is nothing but a joke. Add Kattar, Palmer, Hanson, Mirrabella, Pyne, Slipper and a number of others into the mix, and you really have to wonder just how far have we sunk!

  13. Michael, I think that for myself that it is of very real concern that Mr. Abbott gives the impression of having no conscience whatsoever, that he seems oblivious to consequences. Abbott’s public statements are often described as “brain f*rts”, and everyone of course is entitled to make mistakes or to word things poorly, however it is Abbott’s reaction or rather his lack of reaction which is of concern. That is..there is no embarrassment, no apology, no sense of humour except for sarcastic comebacks. Irrespective of politics, this is not the type of person I would want to put in charge of a chook raffle much less in charge of governing for all Australians.

  14. Kaye Lee, I reckon that you are right. There are a lot of people living in marginal seats who are beginning to realize just how much they have to lose. It is the workers who will carry this election, the battlers & the pensioners too.
    My husband & I are now on a full pension & I thank the very day that the ALP gave us a raise, then again when we received the added payment to help cover the extra charges for electricity & gas.
    I have 10 grandkids that I want to see given the best opportunity get the best education that can had, in the State system. I want to see those with disabilities get the proper care they deserve. I do not want to see cuts to the Health system or education as has happened in all of the LNP run states.
    At this moment we are all much better off.
    There is room for improvement though, especially in the areas single mothers pension & the asylum seekers. The best way to handle this is to get the ALP back into government again, then work on our local MP’s to get the improvements in policies that we really care about.

  15. Scotland Yard is investigating News International as a “corporate suspect” over hacking and bribing offences, it can be revealed.

    The Independent has learnt the Metropolitan Police has opened an “active investigation” into the corporate liabilities of the UK newspaper group – recently rebranded News UK – which could have serious implications for the ability of its parent company News Corp to operate in the United States. One of Rupert Murdoch’s most senior lawyers has been interviewed under caution on behalf of the company and two other very senior figures have been officially cautioned for corporate offences. John Turnbull, who works on News Corp’s Management and Standards Committee (MSC) which co-ordinates the company’s interactions with the Metropolitan Police, answered formal questions from detectives earlier this year.

    The development has caused pandemonium at the upper echelons of the Murdoch media empire. Shortly afterwards, executives in America ordered that the company dramatically scale back its co-operation with the Metropolitan Police.

    A News Corp analysis of the effects of a corporate charge, produced in New York, said the consequences could “kill the corporation and 46,000 jobs would be in jeopardy”.

    Lawyers for the media behemoth have pleaded with the Met and the Crown Prosecution Service not to prosecute the company as it would not be in the “public interest” to put thousands of jobs at risk. Gerson Zweifach, the group general counsel of News Corp, flew in to London for emergency talks with the Met last year. According to Scotland Yard, he told police: “Crappy governance is not a crime. The downstream effects of a prosecution would be apocalyptic. The US authorities’ reaction would put the whole business at risk, as licences would be at risk.”

    The Independent can reveal that Scotland Yard warned News Corp that its UK subsidiary, which publishes The Sun and used to publish the now-defunct News of the World, was under formal investigation on 18 May last year.

    A month later, Rupert Murdoch announced he was splitting the global empire he spent six decades building up into one of the most powerful companies in the world. The 82-year-old hived off the highly profitable television and film assets, including 21st Century Fox and Fox News, into a separate entity from the troubled newspaper group in what was widely perceived as an attempt to isolate any contagion from the phone-hacking scandal.

    Tom Watson, the campaigning Labour MP, said: “This comes as no surprise. Parliament has already found Rupert Murdoch unfit to run an international company.

    “He is responsible for the corporate culture that allowed this scandal to damage his global empire. I hope that other jurisdictions like Russia will begin to investigate the activities of News Corp around the world.

    “The doom-laden internal analysis that the thousands of people who actually add value to the company may lose their jobs is bogus. If News Corp wants to clean up its act, it can easily do so by replacing the Murdochs with people who understand corporate social responsibility.”

    Lawyers for the Metropolitan Police identified News International as “suspects” as long ago as October 2011.

    But the company did not appear to become aware of its status as a potential “corporate defendant” until April 2012 when Met detectives asked the MSC for “minutes of board meetings”. The request triggered behind-the-scenes negotiations which eventually led to former Deputy Assistant Commissioner Sue Akers writing to the MSC a month later.

    In a letter to the chairman Lord Grabiner, she said there was “an active investigation into the corporate liability of News International”. The company immediately changed the terms of its co-operation with the police.

    In an unpublished statement submitted to the Leveson Inquiry a month later, seen by The Independent, Lord Grabiner outlined the position of the company. He indicated it would be a “dereliction of duty” to continue co-operating with Scotland Yard if the police were planning a “corporate charge” against News International.

    “At no point prior to May 2012 did the Met inform News International or the MSC that any corporate entity was a suspect,” he said.

    “It was only in early May 2012, following requests by the Metropolitan Police for information and documents that did not seem relevant to the matters understood to be under investigation in relation to individuals, that it appeared to the MSC the focus of the investigation had shifted to include the companies [News International and News Group Newspapers] without either company having been advised of this fact.

    Later he added: “A suspect which is being asked to provide material for use in the investigation into its own liability is entitled to be advised that it is under suspicion in order that it can be advised of its rights and make informed decisions.”

    Lord Grabiner said that, following the disclosure, the company was still “co-operating” but felt “obliged to proceed with some care”.

    A senior Scotland Yard source said that after Ms Akers’ letter there was a “suspension in co-operation” whilst the UK lawyers “took advice” from the board directors in New York.

    He added: “They subsequently resumed co-operation, but on a more challenging, legal-led basis resulting in delays.”

    Lawyers for News Corp then continued to plead with the police not to pursue the company, raising the recent case involving Southwark Council, which avoided corporate manslaughter charges by providing full co-operation with an investigation into a fire that ripped through a dilapidated tower block, killing six people.

    Since News Corp was informed of the development, a string of senior UK executives have left the company.

    According to CPS guidelines, there appears to be no legal provision for dropping a corporate prosecution simply because a company under suspicion also happens to be a major employer.

    However, the former Prime Minister Tony Blair ordered the cessation of a three-year Serious Fraud Office investigation into BAE Systems in 2006 as it would affect “thousands of British jobs”. Citing the “public interest”, Mr Blair said the defence giant should not be prosecuted for paying bribes worth hundreds of millions of pounds to the Saudi royal family in order to secure the multibillion-pound al-Yamamah arms contract.

    When members of the Saudi government found out that the SFO was probing their personal Swiss bank accounts, they also threatened to cut off all intelligence to Britain.

    Last night a spokesman for News UK said: “We have co-operated with all relevant authorities throughout the process and our history of assistance is a matter of record in Lord Justice Leveson’s report.”

    A Scotland Yard spokesman said: “We are not prepared to discuss this.”

    Explainer: How a company can be prosecuted

    The Crown Prosecution Service can treat a company as a “legal person” who is “capable of being prosecuted”.

    Any organisation at the centre of a criminal investigation “should not be treated differently from an individual because of its artificial personality”, according to the CPS.

    The latest guidelines state: “A thorough enforcement of the criminal law against corporate offenders, where appropriate, will have a deterrent effect, protect the public and support ethical business practices.

    “Prosecuting corporations, where appropriate, will capture the full range of criminality involved and thus lead to increased public confidence in the criminal justice system.”

    A company can be found guilty if any potential offender can be established as the “directing mind and will” of the organisation.

    The Independent asked the CPS to explain what the possible penalties were for a corporate charge, including fines and custodial sentences, but the press office refused to discuss “hypotheticals”.

    Lawyers for News Corp believe the law on corporate prosecutions is a “mess” and have told the Met and CPS that any charge against the company will be vigorously challenged in court.

    It appears the company is most concerned about the effect of corporate charges on the ability of News Corp to obtain unspecified “licences” in the United States.

    A senior News Corp source said the “licences” are now under the domain of 21st Century Fox, the TV and film arm that was split from the newspaper group in June this year.

    Timeline: Hacking saga

    January 2007 Original phone-hacking prosecutions result in two convictions.

    January 2011 Scotland Yard launches new investigation into phone hacking after embarrassing disclosures. Material seized years earlier is re-examined.

    July 2011 Milly Dowler hacking scandal breaks. News Corp establishes Management and Standards Committee (MSC) to co-operate with police.

    October 2011 The Metropolitan Police internally identifies News International as corporate “suspect”.

    November 2011 Leveson Inquiry starts.

    April 2012 Met asks MSC for “minutes of board meetings”.

    May 2012 Deputy Assistant Commissioner Sue Akers tells MSC that company is under “active investigation”. News Corp’s co-operation with police dramatically scaled back.

    June 2012 Rupert Murdoch announces plan to split News Corp in two. MSC tells Leveson Inquiry it would be a “dereliction of duty” to continue co-operating with Scotland Yard if police were planning a “corporate charge”.

    December 2012 Leveson Inquiry concludes.

    March 2013 Rupert Murdoch is secretly recorded telling staff that “payments for news tips from cops” have been “going on a hundred years”.

  16. I just see a very cruel, revengeful & nasty man who is driven by being money hungry!
    A man who fails at being a good catholic and not at all a happily married man except for the cameras. He’s a fake & the rest of the world are beginning to see him as being an absolute fool and an embarrassment to our beautiful country. Does he think for one moment Murdoch won’t turn on him? he will have truckloads of dirt to release because Murdoch is about selling papers & making as much money as he can…loyalties? same as Abbott’s loyalties to his ‘mates’!

    How will the rest of the world view Abbott once they realize how disgusting he was by ignoring a child’s allegations of sexual abuse and siding with the perpetrator just because THEY were buddies! To refresh your memories…
    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/tony-abbott-linked-to-priest-in-web-of-intrigue/story-e6frg6n6-1226573435456?sv=89c77bca786180597cf34bdc49005d75

    The next 3 links are from Lawyer Chris Murphy which he put on Twitter http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1rjd2tj (act of sex abuse)
    http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1rjd2n5
    http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1rjd58i

    We can’t have a man for PM who thinks kids lie about sexual abuse by priests!

    This is the Abbott I hate…….and Mrs Abbott runs a child care centre?

  17. The whole Shadow Ministry scare the crap out of me. Tony Abbott as Prime Minister is unthinkable but what about the rest of them?

    Julie Bishop handling sensitive international negotiations by employing the death stare.

    Scott Morrison to welcome refugees with ankle bracelets and warning signs to the neighbourhood.

    Chrissy Pyne for education of wealthy boys.

    Warren (what’s wrong with horses) Truss for infrastructure

    Joe Eleventy and his feeble sidekicks, Andrew Robb and Mathias “the terminator” Corman, handling our money

    Herr Abetz for workchoices – (Bring back the ABCC cause we all love a good interrogation)

    Peter (smoking is good for poor people) Dutton for…remind me again…oh yeah…health

    Greg Hunt for “the planet hasn’t warmed up any in the last 2 weeks, stop whinging”

    Malcolm (I don’t believe any of this crap) Turnbull for fraudband

    Barbnaby Joyce (is that the chattanooga choo choo) for dams

    Sophie “mean girl” Mirabella for light bulbs

    Andrew Laming “Mobs tearing up Logan. Did any of them do a day’s work today, or was it business as usual and welfare on tap?” for Indigenous health

    Bronwyn Bishop to carry that bloody great big book around.

    George (I’m gonna get you Thomson and you’re a crook Gillard) Brandis as Attorney General

    David Johnston for Defence – even the Army don’t like him regardless of how much money he promises them

    Kevin “don’t touch our poker machines” Andrews for human disservices.

    Michealia Cash for screeching.

    And these are their “brightest and best”

    HEAVEN HELP US

  18. I crossed my eyes and spat three times as I typed that just to make doubly sure that won’t happen Michael.

  19. Suggest you turn on Sky and see Paul Kelly give state of play.
    Dark clouds for Labor and Rudd as they head for defeat.
    Rudd under extreme pressure is sight to see , even if it is the New Way Kevin.
    Meltdown watch activated.

  20. lololol no WONDER you think like you do Voyager if you think Paul Kelly on Pie in the Sky news is giving you the real “state of play”. He’s Rupert’s boy.

  21. Interesting tweets going around….

    Latika Bourke @latikambourke 1h
    Had a coalition MP tell me if it comes down to their vote they’ll cross the floor to prevent Tony Abbott’s PPL scheme becoming law.

    Rob Oakeshott @RobOakeshott1 14 Aug
    Just for the record, JHockey fought hard and voted against the Parliamentary Budget Office. Irony that its now his saviour.

    Mike Carlton @MikeCarlton01 4h
    Abbott’s paid parental leave scheme is the usual Tory swindle – the wealthier you are, the more you get.

  22. VBS, I suggest you turn off Sky…. the reporters are woefully biased… woefully corrupted…. and woefully partisan…….. and anyhoo, after Labor wins the election… the NBN will help them realise their true potential ..as… used car salespersons…. though I’m sure they will lie, cheat and misinform, ad infinitum, as they try to evade the inevitable reality of the death of the forth estate and their upcoming seachange employment transition(s). :D

  23. Are you people for real?
    Abbott has been hounded by the press for years. Rudd was given a honeymoon in 2007, he cocked up, he got rolled he leaked, backstabbed and undermined he was reinstated, backflipped on the high moral principles in which he was elected in 2007 and you blame Abbott?
    Off with the blinkers, people!

  24. Blame Abbott for what? We are just stating the bleeding obvious. The man is NOT fit to be Prime Minister for so many reasons. He has no convictions that he wouldn’t sell as Tony Windsor so eloquently pointed out. His policies are all designed to give tax breaks to the wealthy at the expense of the poor. He is campaigning holding his grown daughter’s hand continually for God sake. Is she going to the G20 summit too to make sure he doesn’t say something stupid…again?

    I would suggest you are a product of the Murdoch press ably abetted by Sky news.

  25. Interesting, despite all the signs points toward that our democracy is under threat, all we do is playing hide and seek, rather confront this serious threat, ignoring the fact that the traitors are very much visible indeed.

  26. He is a total wanker and the murdoch media is killing rudd of to get what they want. Australia will realise that when this dickhead gets in they will regret the vote and we will end up like qld. Newman is stuffing us now

  27. I am afraid, very afraid that the idiotocracy are willing to order their own persecution by voting in The coalition!

  28. I live in a Labor marginal seat that is being quoted as a win for the Libs on all the MSM. ….That is the truth on the ground rather than the crap you are hearing from Murdoch papers and the tv polls.

    Yes, it is interesting. People who I previously assumed were Liberals told me they are voting Labor. And a polling lady on the weekend told me most of the people she had spoken to were voting Labor. When the news in my seat is reporting an overwhelming win for the Lieberals.

    Murdoch and Rhinehart have been doing a sterling job so far in conning people into voting against their own interests. But I wonder what will happen when people see plainly in front of their faces the policy set and costings compared. Will they still vote against their own interests? Or will the propaganda be too strong for them?

  29. Newspoll: 54/46…HAHAHAHAHAH!

    Your opinions are nothing but white noise from the extreme and mean nought in the scheme of things. The pathetic paranoid predictions here are entertaining in a comedic sense.

  30. voyager, you can’t even spell ‘ragged’, which is a minor quibble but I notice that not liking Rudd and being semi-literate go hand in hand. The reason that Rudd is looking exhausted is that he actually cares about the people of this country while Abbott couldn’t care less what he does to them. Born with a silver spoon in his mouth and privileged ever since, Abbott expects everything to be handed to him as it has been all his life.. He expects Murdoch to win the election for him while he coasts around like royalty refusing to come clean on his policies or how he intends to pay for them. Rudd may have a temper but at least he doesn’t do death states and nodding at Mark Riley the way Abbott did, on national TV no less, and he probably has a pretty good idea what a suppository is, too.

  31. Replying to “My Say” it’s interesting that you’ve brought up Craig Thomson. Here is a prime example of trial by media. The court case is dragging on and it is in the LNP’s interest that this case is not resolved before the election. Essentially in this Country a defendant is still innocent until proven guilty. If you had followed this case you would know that there are two sides to this story. Of course you would not know that if you’ve only been basing your opinion on the one eyed propaganda from MSM. I suggest you arm yourself of the other side before jumping to conclusions. The connection between the accusers and the LNP is blatantly obvious for one, It appears that the finger may have been poked at the wrong culprit here. I suggest you try goggling some alternative views on the subject before adding to the libel and slander. Just like the Ashby/ Slipper case or much of the other dirt the muckraking LNP has tried to dig up, when you begin to scratch the surface you can see who the real conspirators are. Oh I hear all the Liberals repeating “just another conspiracy theory” funny the ones who say that are the biggest proven conspirators of all.

  32. Meanwhile, some in the media are realistic.. It’s a bit of a lengthy copy and paste but well said..

    So I wonder what they think about Tony Abbott’s latest social engineering concept. The one that says that a woman on $150k a year, can have her full salary, plus super, paid, whilst she takes six months maternity leave.

    Now, paid maternity leave is a good idea – but surely only for those on lower incomes. Maybe cut it off at $100k a year, as a household income – not $150k, based on a single income. A two income family earning more than $100k, can surely afford to cut their spending for half a year. But no, you could have a husband earning $300k a year, and his wife on $150k a year – and the government will still pay them $75k for six months – recognising the highest cost of Swedish au pairs, north shore lunches and the ever rising cost of hair extensions and exfoliation packages. You can spend thousands of dollars in the salon alone. All that before you even start planning the overseas holiday.

    And if you are on $150k a year, your employer obviously thinks you are pretty crucial to them – wouldn’t they want to pay to keep you on anyway? Well, they don’t need to now, because the government will pay it for you.

    With taxpayer money.

    Remember, the money that was, I thought, intended to build infrastructure and provide a safety net.

    And it’s all because Tony Abbott, to use his words, wants to encourage women of calibre to have children. Women of calibre.

    Imagine, if only rich people had kids, we wouldn’t need a safety net at all.

    We’d all have money and, because everyone would be employed in banking, we’d spend all day at work moving money around, and all weekend spending it. Except for our taxpayer funding hiatus every couple of years, when the woman of calibre pops out another one just so you can catch up on her beauty treatments – funded, by the taxpayer.

    Am I the only one having difficulty with this one. Or am I right, the world has gone the world has gone stark raving mad?

    http://phildobbie.com/main/podcasts/ballsradio/item/1127-tony-abbotts-calibre-baby-bonus

    ps scaper, perhaps you can forget about your great northern project..your mate Tony plans to give the money away to pay for hair extensions. ;)

  33. Min, that is the mistake you make, the Northern Development policy is not reliant on government money but other elements as to allow for an optimum private investment regime. If the numbers don’t stack up then it will fail. It won’t fail.

    My main interest is the water transfer that has been designed, costed and the CBAs indicate the GDP growth benefits and the recovery of investment capital and interest is 18-20 years. Shovel ready!

  34. I see someone who constantly treats me as an idiot – who says things I know are untrue, sometimes outrageous falsehoods, who goes to interviews apparently knowing less than I know and doesn’t prepare himself by reading.

    I see someone who is rarely pulled up on his lies, contradictions and nonsenses, someone who should never have lasted in this position without a complicit media.

    I see someone who if elected will not be truly acting as a Prime Minister except when he manages to escape his machine. Both have already harmed us overseas and they’re dangerous for Australia.

    There are good trustworthy Liberals and Country Party members, but unfortunately they’re not the ones given prominence. The whole Front bench scares me. It seems you need to be nasty to get ahead and the whole culture created in politics is frightening.

  35. Ja, ya ya, “The whole Front bench scares me. It seems you need to be nasty to get ahead and the whole culture created in politics is frightening.”
    Hear, hear. the culture of this debacle of an opposition is indeed worrying. :(

  36. ja, I have not a single doubt that Abbott will be nothing more than a front man, a puppet for vested interests – and sadly the welfare of average Australians will be very low on these people’s list of priorities.

  37. You only need to look at what has happened in Queensland – where I live – to see what Abbott and the LNP will do if they get in. Newman is slowly but surely destroying this state – I’d like to point out I didn’t vote for him – by slashing services and putting thousands out if work. Mind you, they don’t seem to have any worries about giving themselves a huge pay increase – done in the same week electricity prices were massively hiked up. Campbell “Can’t Do a Bloody Thing” Newman suddenly finds, after telling everyone he will do something about the rising electricity prices is now saying he can’t do anything. Thanks Campbell! And scandals and rorts left, right and centre. All brought about by people not thinking before they voted. It is not god enough to just change government for the sake of changing government – which is what is happening. If voters don’t stop and evaluate what us actually been said, and what they are being sold it is going to be another disaster. Liberal governments never have, and never will assist the average worker or battler. Everything is keyed towards the wealthy – just look at the farcical PPL scheme – and ensuring that those who have it tough will have it tougher by paying for it all. This is an election where we have no winners. We have NO choices. The thought of that bumbling Abbott meeting with dignitaries from overseas makes me shudder. And does anyone know who is actually polled for these poll results? They have certainly never asked me! I truly don’t truly believe people are starting to “prefer” him or even like him! The man is creepy.

  38. On the nastiness, and I’ve said this previously here, the dirty media campaign using Tony Abbott (perhaps mutual back scratching) has overseen the demise of standards which should be expected of public figures. It could never be considered that I think highly of Howard in any way, shape or form yet it now seems “acceptable” to resort to tactics that even Howard would have apologised for. Gay bashing, ethnic bashing, condescension towards women is now normal behaviour and perfectly acceptable tactics in today’s politics..as long as it’s Tony Abbott and his cohorts that is.

    If Abbott wins, there will be no loud huzzahs for a job well done, a game well played…

  39. The thing I can’t get my head around is why the general public don’t think that climate change its not the most important policy on the agenda. Some pollster has told them not to bring it up because Julia “lied”…. what claptrap. The labor party should be pushing it with all their might because, when Tony “the phoney”gets in… We are in deep trouble!!!

  40. Agree, wholeheartedly, with your post, Michael. The thought of a man of the “calibre” (or lack) of Tony Abbott becoming PM of Australia fills me with horror. When you couple that with his sorry excuses occupying his front bench we will definitely be in deep doodoo.

    One thing I am curious about is UK-born Tony Abbott actually an Australian citizen or does he vote as a British subject? The same goes for his NZ-born wife Margie. These are simple questions, asked in all seriousness, for which I have yet to receive answers…

  41. I agree wholeheartedly with all of the 16 points outlined in this commentary but one of the things that really scares me is this … “And world leaders, it goes without saying, will want to rub shoulders with him.” ??? This man should never be let loose in another country to represent Australia and Australians.

  42. Getting really desperate now. Abbott had an Australian mother and an English-born Australian father. Gee, a fact checker would have a field day here!

  43. Scaper, having an Australian-born mother does NOT make you an automatic Australian citizen, especially back in the 1950′s when Abbott was born. His father was NOT an Australian no matter what the puff piece in Wiki says. He was a UK citizen who was brought out to Australia to avoid the war when he was 16 & returned several times to the UK, finally in late 1940′s when all was safe. He was not here long enough to be considered “Australian” by any means. Abbott’s parents met & married in the UK. They came to Australia as assisted migrants in 1960 when TA was three years old. So my question remains.

  44. You are talking rubbish, yet again. Abbott is an Australian citizen, has an Australian passport and is obviously entitled to vote in Australian elections.

    Your question is nothing but an attempted slur. To question Abbott’s or any other Australians nationality is a fucking low act!

  45. Have you seen his citizenship papers? It is not a low act asking a genuine question to which I should like a genuine answer not a scaper (Pyne) piece of crap.

  46. I think you have totally in a nut shell covered both Rudd & Abbot, neither are good leaders no matter for those that stupidly elect on a person & not a party , the only difference I see is the labor party is still making promises knowing what’s not in the bank & the liberal party can not make stupid electoral promises until they see exactly what’s not in the bank , wake up you silly people

  47. My sister managed to get an Australian passport back in the 70′s when she wasn’t an Oz citizen. How, we don’t know but things were slacker back then.

  48. Migs
    The problem is you like most of us who post here have the advantage of other than the msm(not worth capitols) for sources of information.

    The blinkers are off,the rose petal glasses are put aside and as the song goes “I can see clearly now”. The Goebbels effect is everywhere and the Murdoch wave crest is being surfed by Tones for all its worth.
    So we have another manipulated poll in Abbort’s electorate to further sway the masses, don’t think, just vote for Tones you know it makes sense.

    What I am saddened about is that Kevin seems to have forgotten everything he learned when he ousted the rodent. One might even think that Julia is paying him back, by whiteanting him but no she is to honorable for that.

    As I see it, if Kevin does NOT lift his game, my $50 bet that labor would win is lost and a good nights celebration will in fact turn into a wake. Julia was the best thing labor had going for it and the nervous nellies threw that away and the murdoch influenced polls march on.
    See you on Saturday

  49. All i see is the points you made about Abbott,ACTUALLY refer exactly to Kretin Rudd. Why don’t you all accept that Rudd is bankrupting this country….or are you all quite happy for your kids and grandkids to be payingback,the debt that this rabble of a Govt has lumbered you with. Talk about looking at things,through rose coloured glasses!!!

  50. If you are concerned for your children and grandchildren then you could not possibly vote Liberal. How can you sell your children’s future like that? Less for education, archaic NBN, and perhaps most importantly, no action on climate change. The Coalition care so little about climate change they don’t even bother trying to understand their own policy. If it wasn’t so serious it would be laughable.

  51. Try a little economics 101 Liars2013 – our economy is doing quite well (considering) thank you very much!!! We could, of course, try your failed austerity measures and end up with greater debt, heading for a recession and 10% unemployment – that’s the alternative…

  52. Maggie,Maggie,Maggie….Climate change is not on the agenda,simply for one reason…..IT DOESN’T EXIST!!! Its just fools like you,are fed that crap and somehow,you believe it. Well guess what,Maggie….if i told you pigs could fly,for long enough,will you believe that?…

  53. You say you don’t want your children to pay for the debt but you apparently want mine to. Both of my children have part time jobs while studying. When Tony Abbott lowers the tax free threshold back to $6000 it will cost both of my children $1830 a year extra tax. For God’s sake how can people be so stupid.

  54. Just a quick look at Qld should show you where you’re headed – debt to revenue ration just over 100% when Can’t Do and his bunch of criminals took over – headed to 150% in 2013-14. That’s Lieberal economics in action!

  55. Same comment to Kaye Lee, as to Maggie. Bacchus…maybe you should learn how to spell. And you think Gillard & Rudd, NEVER LIE???? Bwhahahahahaaaaaaaaaaa……ROTFPML!!! AH YES…..the almighty Messiah….Kretin Rudd. Again,ROTFPML!!!!!

  56. And the gormless trolls come out of hiding and add…. can’t think of what they add to the discussion actually.

    Watch this.

    Libs2013!!! can you please elucidate for us the factors and policies that will make Abbott a good leader for Australia?

  57. oh geeze…climate change doesn’t exist??????????? Not only are you a moron, you are dangerous. Do you truly beli9eve you know more than all the climate change experts around the world and all the irrefutable studies that have been done? I see you get your information from Andrew Bolt and Alan Jones. You know NOTHING!

  58. Kaye Lee….please tell me……WHEN has Abbott ever mentioned that he will lower the threshold back to $6000. ACTUAL TIME,PLACE & DATE,thank you very much!!!

  59. Campaign Media Release

    AUSTRALIA’S MOST WANTED – COALITION TRIO MISSING IN ACTION

    19 AUGUST 2013

    The Rudd Labor Government today issued an all-points bulletin for the safe return of Shadow Minister for Health, Peter Dutton, Shadow Minister for Innovation, Industry and Science, Sophie Mirabella and Leader of the Opposition in the Senate and Shadow Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations, Senator Eric Abetz.

    We have grave concerns for the whereabouts of these three senior Shadow Ministers.

    If Mr Abbott wins the election on 7 September, they will all be senior Cabinet Ministers. Yet we have not heard a peep from them all campaign.

    Peter Dutton is officially missing in action – he hasn’t been seen since the Mid-Winter Ball.

    You couldn’t get Sophie Mirabella off the TV before the campaign – she had a higher profile than Justin Bieber. For the last three weeks however, she has turned into Peter Andre.

    And as for Senator Abetz, the last time he gave an interview the Ashes series was tied.

    Our challenge to Mr Abbott is to let these senior team members off the leash.

    Let Mr Abetz tell Australians what he really thinks about WorkChoices.

    Let Mr Dutton tell Australians why he wants to cut hospital funding to the bone.

    Let Ms Mirabella… well, let her say anything – anything at all. Our 50,000 auto workers deserve at least that.

    Stockpiling these charmers in the Liberal Witness Protection Program until election day speaks volumes about what Mr Abbott thinks of his dream team.

  60. Gee,looks like this site is only for the hardcore Labor arselickers.Still waiting for that time,place & date,Kaye Lee.

  61. Abbott initially said he would scrap the $18.200 threshold but after pressure in his budget reply he said he would keep it, adding to his every growing spending list, which is why he won’t release costings until it’s too late.

  62. Judging by the forming of the gauntlet, Libs is getting under your skins.

    Hardly 2hw, but I noticed on the weekend you were rankled.

    What is it with you and skins anyway. Silence of the Lambs creepy…

  63. “Thats right….someone comes on here,who doesn’t agree with all of you empty heads & straight away,they’re a troll.”

    Oh take your hand off it Libs2013!!!, you didn’t just disagree at all but put up a nonsense post full of shouting and over the top exclamations with not a single lucid argument, fact or thought to add to the discussion.

    It was a troll.

    I note that apart from scaper, the intelligence of the right wing posters has really plummeted. This lot make Neil look like Carl Sagan and VOYAGER/TWEED meritorious professors of psephology.

  64. Wasn’t a lie scaper, for if you do a search there are still sites that post Abbott’s original statement of scraping it. And as Abbott states he is a liar it means you can call out anything he says as a lie and be honest about it. Won’t surprise me one bit when he breaks his promise on this and lots of others as well, of course blaming Labor all the while. You can bank on it.

    Everything to you is a lie lately. It’s really sad to see the sad petty right wing sac you have degenerated into.

  65. Mr Hockey said the Coalition remained committed to dumping both the carbon tax and any sweeteners connected to it because consumers would benefit from the reduced household energy prices that would follow. These sweeteners include a tripling of the tax-free threshold from $6000 to $18,200, rising to $19,400 in 2014-15, and increases to a slew of household payments.

    ”Let me be very clear, if there is no carbon tax, there is no need for compensation because if you don’t have a carbon tax, you don’t have injury. And by its very design, the carbon tax is meant to cause injury, it’s meant to change behaviour, and that’s why the government compensates,” Mr Hockey said.

    http://www.theherald.com.au/story/1344734/hockey-hints-at-tax-rises-under-coalition/

    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-opinion/abbott-not-gillard-is-the-true-class-warrior-20130428-2imis.html

    http://www.news.com.au/national-news/coalition-promises-to-match-labors-tax-cuts/story-fncynjr2-1226589862273

  66. Based on the latest poll and internal polling Moreton has gone blue. Anyone care to take a stab at how many seats Labor will retain? I’m locked in at 47 and if the polling for Labor goes any lower my count would look somewhat optimistic.

  67. After the Prime Minister said average families would pay higher income tax and lose payments worth up to $2300 a year if the Coalition won the election, Mr Abbott said it did not automatically follow that the tax-free threshold would return to $6000 from $18,000 if the Coalition won office and scrapped the carbon tax.

    The Coalition has said that scrapping the carbon tax will cut electricity prices by 10 per cent.

    “The point to make is that the increases that people got on July 1, 2012, when the carbon tax came in, were carbon tax compensation,” Mr Abbott said. “They weren’t, as it were, just clear gains. They weren’t simple increases or simple tax cuts. They were compensation for the carbon tax.

    “Now if you don’t have the carbon tax you don’t need the compensation, but we will continue to fund tax cuts and pension increases.”
    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/climate/tony-abbott-plans-to-keep-carbon-compensation/story-e6frg6xf-1226590320197

    It seems apparent to me that Tony is leaving himself wiggle room. Let’s see who is right if they ever announce their costings

  68. Carton of tissues, recty???

    And that illustrates my point on you in one short nonsensical statement.

    Not at all. It’s you’re wishful thinking and jumped up egotistical imagination running wild yet again.

  69. Wouldn’t hold my breath on the costings Kaye Lee. They will come out very late, be full of holes and have lots missing but all too late to analyse and condemn, which is their aim.

    If they were honest and such great economic managers as the right wingers keep averring they would have had no problems releasing their costings ages ago let alone at the very last minute in an election campaign, especially since they have stated they have been ready to govern for over two years now.

  70. That passage is available on ABC, Fairfax and other outlets scaper.

    My you are now a petty little nark.

  71. Nah, imagination dictates that Labor has a chance of winning the election. I see no one has either the nerve or inclination to state how many seats Labor will retain…or in your deluded case, how many they will win.

  72. scaper in the name of fairness that you seem to be going on a lot about lately here, can you point us to a right wing site where you are being just as critical of their statements and supposed lies?

  73. To be fair Kaye, his budget reply speech said:

    Through delivering responsible savings to the Budget, the Coalition will help families, households, retirees and pensioners get ahead by scrapping the carbon tax as well as ensuring that tax cuts and fortnightly pension and benefit increases are kept.

    This means a Coalition government will keep the current income tax thresholds and the current pension and benefit fortnightly rates while scrapping the carbon tax.

    No link ‘cos it’s to a very dodgy web site http://WWW.tonyabbott.com.au/... :lol:

    We all know about Tony and what he says though – even if it’s written down in blood, it ain’t necessarily true ;)

  74. Neither Tony nor Joe have said they won’t lower the tax free threshold. Tony has said he will continue to fund tax cuts but he says that wasn’t a tax cut. Typical double speak. Was he referring to company tax cuts and special economic zones so poor Gina can reduce her tax burden? Will they commit to the increase in the tax free threshold to $19,400 that is due next year?

  75. You still haven’t worked me out after almost seven years? Those sites will be visited by me after the election if the coalition wins.

    Bolt, Piers and a few others will be the playground.

  76. Got caught out,didnt we,Kaye Lee!!! See…even you can’t LIE straight.Seems what your accusing T.A. of doing,is EXACTLY the same as what you do!!! So Laborites LIE,as well. And it took one of your Labor friends to point it out to you. KAYE LEE!!! You have shown you have as much credibility as Kevin “Elmer Fudd” Rudd…..and thats ZIP,ZILCH,ZERO!!!

  77. My my you are a nasty piece of work Libs. I gave the links where I got the information. Hockey said it would go, Abbott says it will stay. They have contradicted each other so many times one could be forgiven for being confused. They could very easily stop the confusion by releasing their costings now couldn’t they. I acknowledged the link from Bacchus but I also have been around a long time and very well remember Tony’s promise to not raise the safety net even though he knew at the time it was BS. Why do YOU think they won’t release their costings? Could it be that they don’t add up perchance? I will be happy to be proven wrong.

  78. YOU TELL ME,Kaye Lee…..why is it SO important that Abbott releases HIS costings now,when RUDD didn’t release his until the DAY BEFORE the 2007 election. Just another piece of hypocrisy from Rudd. “Oh,I can do it,but Abott or anyone else should have to release theirs,now. Whats good for the meglomaniac,is good for Abbott.

  79. There is one question I would like answered regarding the Northern regions becoming the food bowl for the nation.
    Are the powers that be going to try to use land that is Indigenous land If so do they expect our indigenous people to roll over the land to the government, especially after gaining native title to the land that should always have been theirs.
    The indigenous people need to be very careful dealing with any gov/opposition that promises them the world especially when it comes to the land they have fought so hard to retrieve whether it be for food or mining.
    Productivity & growth are great for this country, but at what cost to the people who in the past have been shafted so badly by previous governments.
    Am I being pessimistic when it comes believing this development for the north, you bet. It has more holes in it than a sieve. What about the infrastructure needed to transport the goods. What is it going to cost if air freight is required, how much extra air pollution is going to happen with both air & road travel. There aren’t any railways as an alternative to those methods.
    Both KR & TA are about oneupmanship both trying to gain the upper hand & the whole of this election should be about who has the best policies. Newspoll this morning, has TA/LNP in a winning position – who would believe that, or perhaps why should we believe any polls that driven by a man like Rupert Murdoch.
    The trolls on this site are obviously having a love fest with the LNP & are most probably in the services of their masters even if they deny it.
    What do we want? WE WANT GOOD POLICIES. There are many of these that the ALP have achieved in the past 3 years with at least 2 I can name that need to be relooked at after this current gov. are re-elected.
    WE DO NOT want any regressive policies, we only want those that will take this country towards a progressive, socially caring nation.

  80. its it’s hard to argue with embiciles imbeciles.They’re Their brains are full of shit,insert space here they eat shit,insert space here they think shit,insert space here they speak shit and they believe any shit,no comma here Rudd & Co,full stop, not comma here feed them. So that means….Labor and their followers,must be SHIT!!!

    Oh looky – Liars 2013 is almost as thick as 2SP! Should of (sic) staid (sic) awaik (sic) at Skool (sic) Liars! The subject matter was quite inspiring too – deep and meaningful Liars2013! :lol:

    We really needed Gonski decades ago for some of these cretins :lol:

  81. COULD Kevin Rudd be this vindictive? Our complex, brilliant, idiosyncratic, angry former prime minister, seething like an exiled prince in the north, is widely regarded as the likeliest source of the most damaging allegations to surface about his deposer, Julia Gillard.

    In the crucial first weeks of her election campaign, Gillard has been forced to fight anonymous allegations that she reneged on a deal to give Rudd more time as leader, and that she opposed pension and parental-leave policies in confidential Cabinet meetings.

    All the while, Rudd has played the humble Member for Griffith, smiling for the cameras, playing with schoolchildren and pretending he can’t hear journalists’ questions.

    The leaks may have come from other politicians or staffers, authorised by Rudd or not. They may be old information, gleaned by journalists when Rudd was still PM.

    Or they may be a pieced-together account by staffers who weren’t in the Cabinet room, but who subsequently heard reports.

    Whether or not Rudd is deliberately trying to lose Labor the election – and one day return to his throne – he is undoubtedly the beneficiary. And he has a long history of leaking against his own side.

    The people who know Rudd best tell of his coldness and his kindness, his brutality, his consideration and his conceit.

    Today, former foreign minister Alexander Downer reveals he regularly used Rudd to leak damaging information against his then-Opposition Labor colleagues during the early 2000s.

    “I don’t use the c-word, but I do use the f-word pretty freely, and I can tell you that Kevin Rudd is a f****** awful person,” Downer says.

    Others have plenty more to say about Rudd.

    “I think he has some form of Asperger’s syndrome,” broadcaster Alan Jones says.

    “We called it ‘the icebox’,” says one of Rudd’s many disgruntled ex-staffers, describing the way Rudd would freeze out anyone who gave him bad news or tried to argue.

    “If Rudd was p***** off with you, he would stop asking you to do things.

    “You’d end up with nothing to do, and he’d give your work to other people. And if you disagreed about anything, he’d shut you out.”

    But ice-cold was better than blazing hot. When Rudd kicked a hole in the wall of his own office, screaming with anger, none of his staff quite knew what to say.

    It was 2007 and Rudd, as Opposition leader, had just conducted an aggressive press conference in Sydney. He returned to his Phillip St office and let everyone know how strong his rage could be. “We all saw it – all the staff,” one witness says. “It was extraordinary.”

    What frequently set Rudd off was the feeling that he was unappreciated – like the flop of his speech before the UN general assembly in September, 2008.

    The UN auditorium was three-quarters empty, and Rudd’s then-chief of staff, David Epstein, nodded off. That was bad enough, but when Rudd got wind of the Australian news reports mocking his appearance, he lost it.

    In his private suite on the jet home, surrounded by staff and RAAF personnel, Rudd raged.

    “He actually punched the wall of the plane,” one observer says. This time, luckily, he didn’t put his foot through it.

    Busting to leak

    “ALEX,” Rudd said once to Alexander Downer before he became leader, “you and I are too bright to be leaders of our parties.” It was late one evening at Parliament House, and Rudd was obviously feeling despondent. Downer had no sympathy.

    Rudd, the chairman of Labor’s foreign-affairs caucus committee, had deeply offended Downer when he failed to show up at a dinner with a visiting foreign minister that Downer had organised.

    “We rang his office and they said he wanted to do something in the Parliament. It turned out that he wanted to do some media thing,” Downer says.

    “This monstrously bad behaviour just kept coming through. I sent him and Julie Bishop on a parliamentary delegation to Zimbabwe; he was using the c-word to her all the time. Women don’t like that.

    “Rudd was so incredibly unprincipled. When he was chairman of the caucus committee, we used to use him mercilessly to embarrass (Labor foreign spokesman) Laurie Brereton.

    “Personally, I think Laurie Brereton’s a very competent and funny operator. But Rudd was happy to humiliate and embarrass him.

    “We would give Rudd information to use against Brereton, and he would use it.”

    Rudd was so determined to snatch Brereton’s portfolio, Downer says, that he would feed whatever titbits he had gleaned to his contacts.

    The information would appear in a newspaper or magazine under the byline of one of Rudd’s known contacts. It would inevitably make Brereton look foolish. And Rudd, inevitably, took his job.

    That story gels with the set-up by former Labor leader and Rudd-hater Mark Latham, who described in his diaries telling Rudd the lie that Labor was running focus groups on Iraq, then waiting to see when the “leak” would appear in Laurie Oakes’ column in the now-defunct weekly magazine The Bulletin.

    Within days, Oakes wrote about the focus groups. “Trapped him. Rudd is a terrible piece of work: addicted to the media and leaking,” Latham wrote.

    Rudd versus Jones

    RUDD once tried to put Alan Jones in the icebox.

    It was a disaster. The powerful broadcaster disliked most of Rudd’s policies, and firmly disapproved of his style.

    Soon after being elected, Rudd began refusing to come on Jones’s top-rating program. This enraged Jones, particularly as Rudd still sought to ingratiate himself in personal encounters. “Whenever I was at a function, he would never stop following me around the room,” Jones says. “It was embarrassing. At the same time, we kept inviting him on the program.

    “After 70-odd requests, I put my foot down and said he wasn’t welcome. Then he would ring me and say ‘Oh, Alan’. I told him to p*** off.”

    Jones found Rudd’s lack of social awareness startling.

    “There’s a lot of talk about this Asperger’s disease. I do feel sorry for the fellow, in some ways,” he says.

    “He had no social skills, no inter-personal relationships. He was only comfortable when he was surrounded by adolescents.

    “And he was never across detail. That’s the real reason he wouldn’t come on the program.

    “He rang me when I was in hospital this year, which was kind, but I still found him a very strange person.

    “I just think he wasn’t up to it. He wasn’t up to the task, and there was something very Shakespearean about his betrayal by the very people who had always overtly supported him.”

    State Labor premiers welcomed Rudd’s election in 2007, but federal-state relations didn’t improve much.

    Advisers were horrified when, at the Council of Australian Government meeting last December, Rudd suddenly began shouting at Victorian Premier John Brumby.

    That encounter was echoed in March this year, when Rudd blatantly ignored NSW Premier Kristina Keneally at a meeting when she tried to welcome him.

    The PR disaster was obvious to everyone except Rudd. For four days, Labor strategists from Canberra and Sydney rang and texted Rudd’s chief of staff, Alister Jordan, telling him the situation was ugly.

    Finally, Rudd called Keneally. He didn’t apologise, but he displayed a friendlier tone and, in the subsequent days, his staff invited Keneally to Kirribilli House to pose for more genial pictures.

    In the meantime, Gillard flew to Sydney for an education meeting, ensuring that she was photographed whispering in Keneally’s ear as they both beamed.

    “We had him on Meet The Press earlier this year,” says Ten Network political editor Paul Bongiorno, who has always found Rudd friendly, if distracted.”The arrangement is always: please be in the studio by a quarter to eight, and please don’t wear a green tie.

    “So of course he shows up at 30 seconds to eight wearing a green tie, so we didn’t have time to make him up and we had to rush a tie in.

    “That was to do live TV – and it’s a bit of an indication of the impossibility of marshalling the guy.”

    A tale of two Kevs

    PUBLIC and private behaviour modes blurred with Rudd. At business lunches, he would eat off the plates of others.

    “He just sat there eating the chips off my plate, chip after chip,” says one senior business figure who dined with Rudd when he was Opposition leader. “It was a bit strange.”

    In private, when he was relaxed and in the company of people that he liked, Rudd could be fabulously entertaining, telling funny, self-deprecating stories and twiddling through his BlackBerry to read aloud interesting titbits that he found on the Wikipedia website.

    But he could also be inconsiderate, constantly keeping his federal police security detail waiting from before dawn until well after sunset for trips that never eventuated. “We never have a clue where he’s going to go. We never know when. We just have to wait,” one officer said when Rudd first came into office.

    Rudd felt he really understood the media. “It’s Kevin Rudd here – I’ve got some copy for you,” he’d say when, as a young MP, he would ring newspaper or wire-service journalists.

    Then he’d start dictating: “New par, Opposition foreign-affairs spokesman Kevin Rudd arrived in Fiji last night full stop. New par, open quote.”

    He would startle press-gallery correspondents with midnight calls about nothing in particular, and flurries of texts. If his press release didn’t make it into the story, or an article displeased him, Rudd would ring in a rage.

    “How am I? How the f*** do you think I am?” he said one Sunday afternoon in April, 2007 to The Daily Telegraph’s then-editor, David Penberthy. “They make up these f****** lies and they put it on page one!”

    That day, The Sunday Telegraph had broken the sensational story of Rudd’s Sunrise “false dawn” story, when Channel Seven producers attempted to hold a Vietnam Anzac Day service in the dark at 4am, to better suit the morning show’s time frame.

    The story had been picked up by News Limited Sunday papers around the country.

    Penberthy was on his mobile phone at a family lunch. He asked if Rudd realised he had, at that time, nothing to do with the Sundays.

    “You don’t understand,” Rudd said. “As a result of your papers, 15 million people around the country think I’m a f****** c***!”

    Penberthy had to laugh: “I think it’s only about 10 million, mate.”

    Rudd was later forced to admit his office had known of the plan, after proof emerged in the form of emails between Seven and Rudd staffers, and accounts from veterans who were briefed on the planned 4am “dawn” service.

    Rudd claimed his staff had failed to tell him about any email contact with Seven.

    That was because everyone was “too afraid”, one former aide says.

    “Everyone was frightened. You couldn’t have a normal discussion about who might have emailed Seven, or known about it. You couldn’t give him bad news.”

    The flipside was that Rudd didn’t consider it necessary to be honest with his own office.

    Media advisers would press him to give an answer on a particular topic, and he would obfuscate or flatly deny. Days later, they would be startled to hear him say the complete opposite on air.

    On issues he cared about, such as indigenous affairs, Rudd was ravenous for detail.

    That obsessive demand for detail extended to everything.

    “On a regular day, we started work at 5am and didn’t leave until after Lateline had finished,” another ex-adviser says.

    “One night, the policy unit stayed up all night to prepare a 69-page report that he never did anything with. He would make people work for no real reason. He was a sadist.”

    The bully boy

    SOMETIMES, it paid to stand up to Rudd. Penberthy, now editor of The Punch, established good relations with Rudd when he was in opposition by telling him where to go.

    “Ah, Penbo, I’m going to need a correction off the back of that garbage you published in (Sydney) Confidential today,” he announced one afternoon.

    Penberthy flicked to the page to find a two-line item gently mocking Rudd for holding “five press conferences” the previous day. He couldn’t see the problem.

    “I did not hold five press conferences,” Rudd sniffed. “OK, how many did you hold?” Penberthy asked. “I don’t know, but it wasn’t five,” Rudd said. “Was it four?” Penberthy asked.

    “That’s not the f****** point,” Rudd snapped.At that point, Penberthy lost his temper, too. “Mate, I’ll tell you what the f****** point is. Every time I see you, you make it absolutely clear you want to be the leader of the Opposition and the Prime Minister.

    “I’ll give you a tip: don’t waste my f****** time ringing up demanding apologies over f****** pissant stuff like this.”

    Suddenly, Rudd became conciliatory, backing off and suggesting a friendly drink at some stage. And from that moment, Penberthy found Rudd invariably “convivial, respectful and open. I really like the bloke, and I always found him good company,” Penberthy says now.

    “I never minded him firing up or swearing – plenty of people in politics and the media act the exact same way – but I suppose, given what happened to him, he ultimately signed his own death warrant with his abrasiveness.”

    Other editors and news directors tell of being screeched at by Rudd.

    But then, most of them have similar stories about Paul Keating or Malcolm Turnbull.

    “I don’t know anyone in a senior position, with a lot of pressure, who can’t be short-tempered at times,” says Andrew Penfold, of the Australian Indigenous Education Foundation, who says Rudd is a man of genuine Christian passions. Alexander Downer has a different view: “I’ve known every prime minister of Australia since I was born, and I have to say Rudd is one of a kind.

    “They’re all vain, and all quite selfish people, but I’ve never come across anybody so self-obsessed, so absolutely focused on self-advancement. He would say anything or do anything to advance his own interests.”

    Downer’s dislike of Rudd began in earnest in September, 2004, after the Australian embassy in Jakarta was bombed.

    He says Rudd, in a foul-mouthed temper, demanded that the VIP jet come via Brisbane to collect him for the urgent trip to Indonesia.

    Downer said there was no time to divert the jet, but offered to pay for a commercial flight for Rudd. Rudd then demanded that the minister find out the flight schedules.

    “I’m not your f****** travel agent,” Downer snapped.

    On arriving in Jakarta, Downer was touched when, in the midst of the crisis, a thoughtful embassy staffer gave him a cigar as a birthday present.

    “Rudd was up there the next day, obviously, and he heard about this. He told the media Downer had sent embassy officials out to scour the town for a cigar for him,” Downer says now.

    “That’s an awful thing to have done. It’s those little things that help explain why I think so poorly of him.

    “This guy was the most cynical person you’d ever find.”

    On the Thursday after Rudd was rolled, Downer received a text message from a friend in the Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet. “Carnival atmosphere here,” it read.

    In Rudd’s wake, Canberra is buzzing with rumour about his whereabouts, his intentions and his motives.

    The best joke stars diplomat Hugh Borrowman, whom Rudd rejected for a plum appointment to Germany, ostensibly because he wasn’t fluent in German and despite the fact DFAT regularly puts senior officers through intensive language training.

    “Well, I may not speak much German, but I do have in the front of my mind a German word,” Borrowman reportedly said to colleagues. “Schadenfreude.”

    Does Rudd think he can resurrect his prime ministership?Undoubtedly, say his Labor colleagues. Without a doubt, says Downer. That’s a measure of the man – and of the central flaw that shaped his tragedy.

    Like all leaders, Rudd had the positive, and negative, manifestations of a huge, undented self-belief: enormous vigour; unselfconsciousness about mannerism and temper; a great desire to be liked.

    He had a masterful grasp of topics that excited him, disregard for peripheral concerns – and, soaking through it all, deep intellectual pride.

    They were all manifestations of a particular kind of arrogance. They were the characteristics that made Kevin Rudd successful. They also made him widely loathed.

    And now, as he stands in the wings and contemplates his stolen dream, we must wait to see where they will take him next.

  82. Möbius Ecko, August 19, 2013 @ 11:04 am

    Watch this.

    Libs2013!!! can you please elucidate for us the factors and policies that will make Abbott a good leader for Australia?

    TWO hours Mö and still no attempt, however feeble, to answer you ;)

  83. The Liberal Party – the haven of the policy free …..”We need change because I just don’t like him/her/him.” Is that all you’ve got 3 weeks out from an election? That sort of obfuscation can’t hide your lack of viable policies. Show us the money!

    Laura Tingle: “The Coalition’s paid parental leave scheme is policy so bad, so appalling – on both policy and political grounds – that in any reasonable contest, it should give Labor a fighting chance to get back in the election race.

    Unfortunately for decent public policy, and for us as taxpayers, we cannot be confident, on the basis of Labor’s political form in the campaign so far, that it will be able to consign this piece of irresponsible, populist junk to the dustbin of history.” http://www.afr.com/p/national/workable_bn_scheme_leave_it_out_P8lhRSKyovqw41NcR7J3oN

  84. Bwhahahahahaaaaaaa…now your posting videos from another Labor suck arse…Mark Reilly. Probably another of his “edited” videos that he doctors from time to time, to make himself sound credible!!! ROTHFML!!!

  85. “elucidate”…to clarify a point. …………I actually DO know what “elucidate: means. Got any others you want to test me with???

  86. Stuff me pickled grandmother’s mushrooms (with apologies to Ted Bullpit) – what grade did you reach at primary school? Every post is full of grammatical and spelling errors and doesn’t make sense.

  87. How absolutely TRUE! How is it that we live in a country, that supports such lies from a Political Party? Where our Media is unaccountable & can say what they like, not the truth! Where in today’s modern world, we are blindfolded & uneducated to the facts of reality, & its morally & ethically WRONG!!!..

  88. Gee,you can’t even come up with an original saying…have to pinch one from a tv show. Look,Bacchus…ya not worth pissin” on. Really…just go away…your polluting the atmosphere just by breathing.

  89. Bacchus…no one one would piss in your ear, if your brain was on fire!!! Hang on…it would never be on fire…..SHIT doesn’t burn!!!

  90. Oh you are too funny Liars2013. Another right-whinger’s ploy – getting pwned on a blog, so go to the old “I’ve won the debate because I said so.” Then there’s the diminutive “Run along now,boy” :roll: Haven’t got much in your arsenal, have you Liars2013? :lol:

  91. The Australian Financial Review libs as you would have noticed if you clicked on the link I provided, though I do understand that reading isn’t considered necessary for libs.

  92. Bwhahahahahaaaaaaaaa. ahh, you should be in a Circus,Bacchus. You REALLY get me belly laughing. Your hilarious!!! Maybe you should go on Swamp People. You’d be right at home with them!!! Headfucked rednecks. Yep…you’d fit it well.

  93. That’s enough fun playing with mental midgets for now – must go check out what’s happening on the rest of the intertubes :D

    Back later to see if Liars had posted anything that makes sense yet :lol:

  94. WOOOW…KL…your trying as well. Now i’ve got TWO clowns in the Circus. Wanna go & recruit some more!?! this is brilliant. The DEADSHIT LABOR SUPPORTERS CIRCUS,led by Ringmaster Bacchus!!!

  95. Wow hard to believe but a wingnut who makes Neil look like a genius.

    Take the prize libs2013 for the nut of the blog. Anyway going on inane mutterings of base nonsense you won’t be around here for much longer.

  96. On my first day of high school a tough girl walked up to me and said with a sneer “What are you lookin at”. I replied “I dunno, I didn’t bring my zoo book with me”. She punched me in the face but I still felt the winner on the day.

    Not sure why that story popped back to mind. ;-)

  97. Yep,KL…dead right..Gave Bacchus enough rope & he just hung himself. Thats what all you pathetic bits of Labor slime will be doing on Sept 8. Reckon the depression hotlines will be on overload,that day!!! Beyond Blue will be run off their feet.

  98. Bwhahahahahaaaaa,KL. Can you come up with something thats REALLY going to get me annoyed…because i reckon i’m doing a bloody good job,getting to you deadheads,judging by the comments i’m getting back. Scaper & I RULE!!!

  99. …and projection to boot. Are there no knuckle dragging lows to this person’s non-talent for lucid discussion.

  100. My god you relate to scaper. Now I know scaper has gone to rock bottom. Sorry to say libs2013 you don’t even get close to scaper, not even as close as a single dying neuron.

  101. Ditto to you,KL.Keep trying. YOU guys are just SO lame. C”MON…give me something to be REALLY insulted about.

  102. Don’t need to you are doing it to yourself 100%

    Won’t be long for this blog though.

    You are doing us one favour though, giving everyone an example of a wingnut in full flight, and it ain’t pretty.

  103. I understand how difficult a lack of perspicacity can be when thrust into a forum where one is so obviously out of one’s depth. The hostility is a manifestation of the frustration caused by an inability to coherently establish a case and elucidate it’s justification. It’s ok libs. Get it all out…type really hard.

  104. Curious though as to why you changed from shouting your moniker and lots of exclamation marks to lower case and no exclamations.

    Did you piss yourself and evacuate your brain matter?

  105. Where did you copy that one fro\m,KL. There’s NO WAY!!!,you could have thought that all up by yourself. Hang on..i think i heard that on the “Big Bang Theory”

  106. Na,Mobius…Us Libs have 100% more brain matter, than the empty space that resides in Labor lover’s heads. Once again…keep trying…The Mobius Comedy Show is up & running!!!

  107. Anyway enough. I thought there might be a little amusement playing with a gormless wingnut, and my aren’t there a lot of them about lately, but nothing of the sort. This one is a little more intelligent than most, the top league of Boltites I would say, but now it’s nothing but the same same as their playback loop kicks in. Time they were gone.

  108. I appreciate that you recognise me for the Intelligence i have…of which you have none,Morius. A gormless wingnut…Nah…still not insulting enough.

  109. My word Tony Abbott must be so proud to have such staunch right wingnut supporters like the puerile, potty-mouthed, ibs2013.

  110. :lol: :lol: Oh my – “you people” are so cruel to this mindless muppet! (especially you Kay Lee – it’s probably still trying to look up what your post at 1:48 PM means ;) ) How can you live with yourselves :lol: :lol:

  111. Thank you, Joy…ANOTHER clown to add to the Circus. Now what are YOU going to come up with, to insult me? Others have ried, but ULTIMATELY….FAILED!!! What makes YOU think, YOU can outdo them? OOH..& you’ve even piched my peurile word. Couldn’t think of anything else, eh, NO JOY on Sept 7???

  112. I do actually feel a bit mean Bacchus. In the words of others:

    “Never argue with an idiot; he will bring you down to his level and win from experience.”
    ― Brad Slipiec

    New Year’s Resolution: To tolerate fools more gladly, provided this does not encourage them to take up more of my time.
    James Agate

    Time I stopped rock poking

  113. Didn’t know you actually *owned* the word puerile, lib2013, but I only used it to point out your inability to spell it correctly, dunderhead.

    Noticed its complete lack of inability to recognise irony, Bacchus but couldn’t be bothered to say anything. It does seem to be a trait of those whose IQ is below 80.

  114. Onto something more interesting….

    In a recent case in the European high court about what restrictions are necessary in a democratic society the ban on political and religious ads in the UK was upheld.

    In the UK paid political advertising has never been permitted on television or radio.
    The government’s view was the ban on political advertising was necessary to avoid the risk that public debate would be distorted in the most powerful available media because those with the deepest pockets would have the loudest voices. Most campaign groups couldn’t afford it.

    Unregulated broadcasting of paid political advertisements would turn democratic influence into a commodity that would undermine broadcasting impartiality, the government argued. The ban was designed to enhance the political debate rather than restrict it.

    I wish we would adopt the same law.

  115. You WOULD find that funny,Bacchus. It’d be FAR BEYOND YOUR intelligence, to come up with something, like that. Looks like Kl, may have scored 1/10th of a point!!! Congratulations.KL….just 9/10ths to go.

  116. Town bike?? Nah I wouldn’t want to compete with you but then in a race to the bottom I’ll let your puerile self win hands down.

  117. And further to the ban on political advertising question, what purpose do polls serve? They cost a lot of money and can be manipulated by selecting the size of the sample, the target group, the phrasing of the questions, and the range of possible responses. The media can also manipulate findings by choosing what results they publish. They can influence public opinion through nothing other than the herd mentality and deflect attention from analysis of policies.

  118. It would be a good thing Kaye if Australia followed many other democracies and banned media and other polls once an election is called and the campaign proper starts.

  119. In the UK paid political advertising is banned in between elections…once the campaign starts parties get equal free time on air.

  120. I think something like that was proposed here once, but got voted down.

    It’s not really the advertising but the independent polls I’m going on about. They don’t come under advertising.

    Then there are things like fact checkers, that done right give a good service and have been successful in the US, yet can be manipulated just like a poll, and I’ve seen this skewing with Politifacts.

    It’s not just a simple matter of banning ads during an election as with most things those who want to corrupt will find another way when a door is closed.

  121. I am in a marginal seat and have been polled several times. Your answers to the initial questions determine whether they continue with the survey. Very easy way to dwindle down the sample group to just who you want.

  122. My father in law has a saying that if you need to resort to swearing it shows a lack of intelligent vocabulary to call on, It seems Libs96 and his lack of facility with the English language and his obvious need to resort insult rather than informed debate opinion have well and truly proved the old fellow’s statement.

    It amazes me how the right wing when faced with intelligent debate opinion and the opportunity for engagement around policy and social issues and economic issues simply resort to insult and diatribe and play the entitlement card just because they are unable to refute in any intelligent way.

    I remember the documentary on the Howard years on the ABC a few years ago and Downer sitting there saying “he was well pleased with me” it was so much sycophantic school boy in awe of his fearless infallible leader.

    I don’t think those here with inteligent comments to make would pretend that any of the labor leader’s are infallible. But they can at least engage in a positive and meaningful way about the issues.

  123. Interesting looking at preferences. Tony has backpedalled about putting Greens last when it was pointed out that that meant preferencing people who want to ban mosques and put coke in bubblers. Labor and Greens are preferencing each other in the main. Wouldn’t it be funny if we got a hung Parliament watching Tony just hand it to Labor.

  124. Migs, spot on as usual :grin: and it would be a national joke if it wasn’t so serious. :sad:

    Murdoch’s golden boy will turn out to be fools gold, if we are stupid enough to allow him in :shock:

    If there are any whisperers from the Sunny Coast lurking, I have just put up a page dedicated to my own electorate and the ramifications of Ashbygate; “Fisher, taken for granted.” :grin:

    http://truthseekersmusings.wordpress.com/fisher-taken-for-granted/

    Cheers :grin:

  125. my say in reply to david rainbow,
    if you go back and read what i said ,you will find i was saying the same about the MSM,and no i dont grt my information from them i read independent sites
    here is one you might like to read,
    ASHBYGATE THE MOVIE,
    WWW YOUTUBE.COM WATCH

  126. Probably scaper’s alter ego, Michael, as he seems to have vamoosed since libs burst into full swing. :lol:

  127. I see him exactly like you. His poten leadership success is incomprehensible and mind blowing to the point of insanity.. How the fuck did he get there?! If he can “make it” then so can all of us..

  128. Who is Tony Abbott?
    Overheard last week: “It’s such a shame there isn’t someone other than Tony Abbott as alternative Prime Minister. We think the Gillard government is bad for the country, but it would be better if we had another Opposition leader to vote for.”

    It caused me to ask why that view might exist given Abbott’s background, and I wondered if it might be that people do not know his history. So, I have put together some information which might help get a better understanding of the man.

    Abbott graduated from the University of Sydney with degrees in Bachelor of Laws (LLB) and Bachelor of Economics (BEc). Then he became a Rhodes Scholar at Queens College Oxford UK in Politics and Philosophy. He also won a boxing blue at Oxford. He married Margaret in 1987 and has three daughters. He is a member of the congregation of the Catholic Church.

    He was involved in student politics, but beyond that, biographer Michael Duffy, wrote that during his student days he saved a child who was swept out to sea. Another time, he helped save children from a burning house next to a pub where he was drinking. On each occasion he disappeared before he could be properly thanked

    He is a member of Manly’s Queenscliffe SLSC, and a member of the New South Wales Rural Fire Service, both of which he joined before it was politically expedient to do so. He spent several weeks teaching in remote Aboriginal settlements in Cape York in an effort ‘to familiarise himself with indigenous issues’

    If you are wondering where some of the negativity attributed to Tony Abbott comes from, go on to the Net and have a look at the comments which followed, 2 years ago, when he was asked by the Women’s Weekly

    “What advice would you give your three daughters on sex before marriage?” He told the magazine: ‘’I would say to my daughters, if they were to ask me this question “it is the greatest gift you can give someone, the ultimate gift of giving and don’t give it up to someone lightly.”

    Yet, if you were to read many of the comments on the Internet and the print media at the time, you could be forgiven for thinking he was attempting to impose his will on all females in Australia, had ranted against women, had argued for Muslim like chastity, and so on……………… See for yourself – Google it! Gillard’s response was to accuse Abbott of “lecturing women”???

    I have also included a video of Abbott where he commented on, in what seems to me to be quite a balanced fashion, “climate change” yet the title of the video suggests he has been extreme in “denying climate change and advocating carbon tax”. See what you think. http://youtube/oPpQisoZqx4 Then have a look at the longer interview from which this original excerpt was taken http://youtu.be/ZoCKhNr8Atk.

    Abbott has had a history of being told by ‘ABC types’ that he lacks compassion, does not understand homosexuality or homosexuals, avoids situations where he might need to face up to gay relationships, and so on. Again, because he was not prepared to reveal personal issues of others (ethics, principles), he did not speak about his own sister’s lesbian relationship and the part he played in supporting her. It would have been an easy defence for him, but in line with his principles and values, he chose not to use it.

    Granted, he is not a super smooth, off the cuff, speaker, and does not fit the orator mould. But when he is compared to the glib tongues and untrustworthiness of Gillard, Rudd, Swan, etc., it is not difficult to determine which attributes are more important for the leadership of Australia.

    After Abbott completed his studies, he became a journalist for The Bulletin and also the Australian. For a time he was plant manager for Pioneer Concrete, then became press secretary for the then Opposition Leader, Dr John Hewson. He was elected to Parliament in 1994 at a bi-election. He has held various Ministerial posts and his actions in those roles are a matter of public record. His work ethic is unquestioned.

    He was dismayed at the policies of former leader Malcolm Turnbull relating to ETS, and following widespread disaffection with Turnbull’s stance among Liberal Party members, threw his hat into the ring, as did Joe Hockey, for leadership of the Liberal Party. Abbott was successful. At the time, the polls were running strongly against the Liberal Party (in the 40% approval range), while Kevin Rudd enjoyed figures around 60%

    Within a short space of time, with Abbott as leader, those figures changed to such a degree that Rudd was replaced in the now infamous “faceless men” coup which installed Gillard. Since that time, Abbott has maintained constant focus on the ever widening circle of disasters associated with the Gillard government to the stage where support for that government now hovers around the 30% mark.

    Abbott strikes me as a person of integrity, he has values in which I too believe, and ethics based on his Christian beliefs. I would much rather place my trust in someone who, in his actions, has shown he is what he says, rather than someone who will say anything to gain a prospective advantage for themselves.

    BY Mark LATHAM, Former Leader of A.L.P.

  129. Do you know what I’d like to see? Liars barrackers providing evidence which supports their claims that our economy is traveling worse with more debt than other developed economies.

    However, only CREDIBLE evidence that our economy is badly managed and mired in debt compared with other developed economies is acceptable, so I guess that cuts out anything Rupert’s rags have to offer.

    You all remember Rupert, don’t you? He’s the corrupt wizened foreign criminal adjudged unfit to run an international company, currently having to answer more charges in the UK. The same criminal pushing the Liars Party barrow.

    And I know you’ll have absolutely no objection to my jumping the judicial gun and pronouncing his guilt-after all you were all comfortable declaring Craig Thomson guilty before any charges had been laid or judgements made.

    I confess I am a little puzzled that you haven’t rushed to judgement wrt Liealot’s current court cases. Just good old Liars double standards, I suppose.

    And fyi, the ravings of the economic illiterates Sloppy & Liealot are not credible sources.

    Liars 2013, you don’t do irony because you barely know how to spell it let alone know what it means. If stupidity, ignorance & mendacity were Olympic events, you’d win the triple crown.

  130. If any of the Liars trolls currently infesting this blog are retirees or saving for retirement, I’m sure they’ll be overjoyed to know that they’ll be forking out a chunk of their savings to bankroll Liealot’s rich women’s breeding bribe PPL.

    Read the link and weeprejoice that your hard earned will be squandered on well heeled mummy’s lifestyles.

    http://www.businessspectator.com.au/article/2013/8/19/economy/retirees-will-pay-paid-parental-leave-scheme#ixzz2cOIbLP2J

  131. http://northcoastvoices.blogspot.com.au/2013/02/yambaman-gets-caught-out-by-hoax.html

    This is what the real Mark Latham wrote about Abbott in the Financial Review on 11 October, 25 October and 20 December 2012:

    * The pampered childhood, in which no boundaries were placed on young Tony’s adventurism. His time at Sydney University hectoring lesbians and vandalising public property in the name of conservatism. His struggles as a trainee priest in conforming to the vows of celibacy and the culture of St Patrick’s seminary. Then his turbulent period in the early 1990s, ostensibly working for the Liberal leader, John Hewson, but acting as an agent for John Howard….Under his leadership, we are witnessing the moral decline of Australian conservatism.

    * My theory on Abbott is that he is a habitual exaggerator, an attention seeker who will say or do anything to inflate the perceived sins of his opponents.

    * Tony Abbott is a flawed character, a habitual exaggerator, deeply unpopular with the Australian people. There is no surging public sentiment to make him prime minister.

    That garbage “Mike” posts can only be found on right-whinge sites, claiming to be “BY Mark LATHAM, Former Leader of A.L.P”

  132. The “stupidity, ignorance & mendacity” of which you speak is very well illustrated by Mike as well Jane ;)

    And liars2013 was very much out of its depth here. The erudite Mö and Kaye Lee were merely dipping their little toes in the water while liars2013 was 20,000 leagues below :lol:

  133. If any of the Liars trolls currently infesting this blog are retirees or saving for retirement

    You know Jane, you really are one of the nastiest people. It is one of the reasons I am so anti-ALP. The followers of this political party are full of hate and bile.

    And if you are so concerned about people paying more money, I think we are now paying $10B interest/year on the debt Labor has produced since 2007. What a waste.

    As far as I know we were one of the few countries in 2007 to have no govt debt. Three more years of Labor means we will lose our AAA rating like we did last time. Business will have to pay more for borrowed money.

  134. We have NEVER had zero gross debt

    Gross Debt ($ millions)

    2007 58,284
    2008 60,462
    2009 101,147
    2010 147,133
    2011 191,291
    2012 233,976

  135. You know kneel, people here are getting sick of you saying that we will loose our AAA rating because of Labor, where is the proof in that, you have not provided any, so as far as I am concerned you are just full of BS.

  136. I think we are now paying $10B interest/year on the debt

    Where is the proof of this kneel or are you getting it again from the Liberal website again, the Australian.

  137. paul that interest figure is roughly accurate (I’ve seen 7 to 12 quoted) but as we make a billion a day in revenue it’s hardly significant.

  138. “Where is the proof of this kneel or are you getting it again from the Liberal website again, the Australian.”

    Well $10B/year on interest was a guess but i was not far off. We had no interest payments in 2007.

    http://www.politifact.com.au/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/may/23/joe-hockey/joe-hockey-says-interest-payments-government-debt-/

    “However, further down in the budget papers net debt in 2013-14 is estimated at $178.104 billion and that net interest payments for the year $7.835 billion.

    And it is increasing at a rapid rate. But hey lets put Gonski, NDIS, NBN on the credit card and let the next generation worry about it.

  139. Hardly significant??

    We are not far away from the debt levels when we last lost our AAA under Hawke. And we are paying 5 times the interest on our debt compared to Europe because for some reason are interest rates are way above Europe.

  140. Now where is it that Australia will loose it’s AAA rating you have been going on about, and your one of the reason I will not be voting for anyone in the coalition.

  141. The third widespread falsehood is that Australia avoided recession after the GFC hit in 2008 because it had no debt and, in fact, had money in the bank. This is frequently asserted by politicians and commentators paid to fabricate.

    The evidence supports the opposite contention. The IMF’s database of all nations shows nine countries were in net surplus in 2007 — apart from a few oil-rich Islamic republics and some small poor African states. These were Australia, Bulgaria, Chile, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, Kazakhstan, Norway and Sweden.

    If low debt was a cushion, then we would expect all these nations to have survived particularly well through the GFC. They didn’t. All nations that went into the GFC with no net debt suffered particularly badly. All except one.

    Australia alone experienced just one shallow negative GDP quarter, a modest rise in the jobless and near enough to a straight line increase in GDP per capita. Plus positive measures on most other variables. And gained triple A rating with all three agencies in 2011.
    http://www.independentaustralia.net/2013/politics/we-really-must-talk-about-this-debt-nonsense/

  142. As is appropriate NoS because they will be the generation benefiting from these initiatives. Rather like paying off a mortgage.

  143. Most businesses run on an open line of credit Neil. We don’t save up until we can buy the shop and all the stock and fittings before we open business. We borrow and invest. If the interest rates are low then we borrow more to expand our business.

    Governments don’t have to pay off a mortgage before they retire. They don’t have to provide profits to shareholders. ALL governments run on debt.

  144. The job of a government is to provide services like health and education, and to build infrastructure. But one of their most crucial roles is to keep as many people as possible employed. The benefits of this are obvious from both an economic and a social perspective. Relax about the debt Neil. They are doing what they are supposed to do and there is not a problem. In historic terms, 11.6% net and 20.7% gross are unremarkable. Australia has exceeded 50% gross three times in the last 100 years and went above 100% during World War II.

  145. We had no interest payments in 2007.

    But we had a debt of $58,284 million in 2007 Neil. Paid no interest? Methinks you’ve been playing with Mr Hockey’s calculator :lol:

  146. Neil is sort of correct in that we had 0 net interest in 06-07 ie the interest we paid was less than the interest we received. In 07-08 and 08-09 we actually came out in front.

  147. Yep, I figured that he was conflating net and gross debt and the consequent interest payments Kaye Lee ;) The Lieberals are well known for such “trickery.”

  148. Well, that’s odd perhaps, but on reading the long lit of faults about Abboot, i could relate almost and every one of them to Rudd. Say no more.

  149. Neil, I neither wrote the article nor conspired to rob retirees. The Liars Party intend to do that, so it would be more sensible of you to blame the Liars and not shoot the messenger.

    And perhaps you should read Kaye Lee’s comments. You might learn something, if you have the cognitive skills.

  150. Why is the coming Election considered to be a close call, simple, 1/ nobody wants to vote Labour 2/ nobody wants to vote Abbott, 3/ the Greens and the Independants showed their true colours, they cannot be trusted to act on behalf of all Australians, so who do we vote for….
    Donkey of course :)

  151. I see BRAINWASHING BULLY who works on the premise that if you repeat your lies and slogans often enough the sheep will believe. Blatant lies over and over and over again. I see a person who doesn’t know the Australia of today. I see a person who cares nothing for people outside his own strata in society. But the BRAINWASHING LYING BULLY is so overwhelming it’s hard to see anything else.

  152. Anyone who votes for phony must be missing half a brain. Seriously they have lied and contradicted themselves so many times, Have refused to face scrutiny from interviewers and the public. Half their front bench are missing in action (what are they hiding? No even with the full weight of the Tea Party, Fascists and other Neo Right wing lunatics, I just cant see Ozzys being that stupid to be sucked into the Goebbels/Murdock propaganda and Vote for a mirror 1930′s Germany NAZI campaign. If by chance the Ultra right wing do win they had better watch their back when they start attacking the Ozzy concept of a fair go.Because all the payed thug security guards in the world won’t hold back the workers united.

  153. Neil even Geoff Kennett reckons we should borrow money to invest in the future (see his comment about proposed Melbourne underground rail system,, Howard is on record as saying the Australian economy is performing well under this Government and Ex Liberal Prime Minister Fraser has said that he considers Abbott as one of the most dangerous politicians in Australia’s history. Seriously Neil do you believe that Fascism would improve Australia? Hitler started as a blithering idiot too do we need to relearn this terrible lesson of history.I think that Menzies would roll in his grave to see his precious Liberal party infiltrated by such dangerous extremist nutters.

  154. Neil and Scraper will just parrot whatever the Liberal party say unthinkingly. Murdoch writes, they repeat.

  155. I must be the odd person out. Tony Abbot is genuine and as real as it gets. He gets on with about anyone. He understands the issues of conservatives and progressives. He says it he means.

    Rudd however has lost his moral compass. No one can trust labor as you never know what is the truth.

  156. I think I remember at the time in John Howard’s era, he owned some of the media and controlled them. It’s possible is that the Liberals are still controlling the media and polls just to manipulate people into voting them and probably scaring them. I’m not afraid of the Elephant Ears (Tony Abbott) at all because you mentioned as exactly as what I thought andwhat I saw right through him. He is not the right man to lead and we don’t need him.

  157. Oh and the FAILED Kevin Dudd and the labor party are a better alternative. Abbot is not very good but look who you are comparing him too??? FFS people wake up. if you looked at the 2 candidates records on paper as the “red’ candidate and the “green” candidate. I know who would won 80/20

  158. I still wanna know who pissed in Malcolm’s shoe…..well not really but it is like the message on Tony Windsor’s phone…one of those unresolved but highly speculated upon sideshows in the circus.

  159. “Mr Hockey refers to net assets of $70 billion and debt going to $400 billion.

    He uses an inaccurate net figure for the Coalition’s legacy and a gross debt projection that’s three years away to describe Labor’s legacy.

    By conflating net and gross figures and ignoring the Coalition’s contribution to gross debt, Mr Hockey is making an exaggerated claim.”

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-08-19/joe-hockey-exaggerates-debt-figures/4897264

    I swear my house is wired…every time I make a comment on the football the commentators repeat it just after I say it….Bacchus and I discuss conflating debts…the journalists write it. I have decided to become a prognosticator when I grow up.

  160. “Mummy,…. whats an prognosticater” :???:
    ….. ” Someone.. ‘other’.. than an Australian journalist, my child”

  161. An interesting story from the Bennelong electorate TODAY…. Today in Bennelong the Liberal and Labor Candidates, were invited to a breakfast at North Ryde common, to speak to small business owners. Both candidates were scheduled to speak. It appears the Liberal Party understands that their candidate, ex-tennis player John Alexander, looks a little ‘lack lustre’ (or just … lacking) when he stands next to a businessman with a masters in international law; who for the last few years has worked in helping Australian companies set up shop and trade with Asia; who speaks 5 languages; who has worked for the UN; a spokesman for the republican movement; Governing member of the Smith Family etc. They couldn’t decline the offer for Alexander to speak but they couldn’t let Jason Yat Sen Li take the limelight. So in rolled … Tony Abbott … for the first time ever … into Bennelong. With Philip Ruddock, to hold John Alexanders hand, take the glow off Jason and basically claim the event as a Liberal Party function (complete with “the van”. It was an ambush – with LNP twitter followers claiming Jason just turned up. He didn’t – he was invited. Abbott wasn’t. Here is The run sheet the Labor candidate was sent from the function organisers below. Bit frightened LNP?

  162. Denis Murrell said . . .

    Well, that’s odd perhaps, but on reading the long lit of faults about Abboot, i could relate almost and every one of them to Rudd. Say no more.

    Denis misses the point. Nobody has indicated that Rudd is any different (although I think it’s debatable). The big difference is that Rudd is held to account by the media. Abbott isn’t.

  163. Top 7 Coalition excuses for not releasing policy costings

    ByNick Feik
    Monday, 19th August 2013

    One for each day of the week, repeat until election day:

    1. In 2007, the ALP didn’t release theirs until the day before the election (and we’re trying to emulate them).

    2. We didn’t trust the Treasury forecasts, but then we did, and now we kind of do. So we’ve had to keep re-jigging the numbers. It takes time.

    3. We shouldn’t be expected to release our costings until we announce all of our policies, and we’ve still got a bunch of policies to re-announce, and re-re-announce. Like the Green Army!

    4. Joe Hockey’s still looking for an ‘independent’ accounting firm that will give us the right figures.

    5. Blergh! The public is bored with all the talk about ‘costings’ and ‘policies’. And let’s face it, it doesn’t matter if we release them or not, we’re still going to win.

    6. Shadow Health Minister Peter Dutton’s got them, but we locked him in a small room at the start of the campaign.

    7. Rupert said we shouldn’t.

  164. The press and the polls seem to be ” ‘doin’ the Mitt’ ” …as it were :roll: .. the closer we get to the election… the more the ‘they’ do the “shoe-in”……. more than a ‘bit’ frightened I would suggest…… ;)

  165. Michael, Rudd annoys me and I am still pissed off about Julia….but Abbott brings about a primal fear. The survival instinct in me says fight to the death.

  166. @Mtns man

    Tony Abbot is genuine and as real as it gets.

    Is that because only his carefully scripted remarks can be trusted? Or because it’s the gospel truth? And he has nothing to hide has he?

    Sooo genuine.

    He gets on with about anyone.

    Except people who wish to ask him questions who are not partisans.

    He understands the issues of conservatives and progressives.

    But chooses to ignore them and wants to govern for vested interests.

    Mtns man, would be someone who I would say, Murdoch has been completely successful in brainwashing.

  167. Why can’t even Liberal candidates explain their own policies, or explain where the costings will come from?

  168. Azza @10:52 pm

    I know I won’t get an answer to this, never do, but will ask anyway.

    Can you list Rudd’s and the Labor government’s failures and why they were a failure?

    Can you list and detail why Abbott will be a good PM? That is his positive successes as both a minister in a government and as opposition leader telling us where he contributed to a debate and policy and made it better, the amendments he introduced and suggested policies he got implemented. Also the policies he blocked with the reason they were flawed and him demonstrating the flaws.

    I’ll give you one of the latter, his disgraceful asylum seeker policy, which he’s since abandoned and replaced with a worse policy.

  169. So what do we think about Wikileaks party? Now that they have come out on the political compass, it appears their ideology is far right. That must have come as a shock to the greens.

  170. How good was Chris Bowens demolition of Joe Hockey on Q&A? He was incredible for a guy only in the job for 3 months. IMO, runs rings around Swan as a public speaker.

    Hockey had nothing. Just hysterics, scare mongering and blame game.

  171. Kaye Lee AUGUST 19, 2013 @ 1:03 AM accuses “I would suggest you are a product of the Murdoch press ably abetted by Sky news.”

    Kaye, that’s the retort of the stupid and the ignorant.

    I don’t watch Sky News, I don’t read the Murdoch papers.
    I was put off the whole Murdoch empire when the Labor government of Hawke and Keating gifted him control of so much of Australia’s print media.
    That “Gallus Gallus” are returning domestically for roosting, is entirely the fault of the Labor Party.

  172. “How good was Chris Bowens demolition of Joe Hockey on Q&A?”

    It certainly sounded like that (on my tranny) Bob.

    But when Labor loses this election however it will be because it played underwriter for the whole LNP Debt and Deficit scare campaign when it should’ve called it bullshit right from the start.

    By making a return to surplus the centre-piece of Labor’s economic policy, which will actually be counter-productive (as history shows), Labor has given legitimacy to the whole LNP scare campaign.

    Even more worrying is that I think Hockey actually believes this crap and will enact policy to try to meet his promise to get back to surplus even quicker.

    Don’t people understand that a budget surplus is paid for by the private sector either by burning up savings or going into debt ? I thought small business understood accounting, but they’re leading the rush to bankruptcy.

  173. This is another mediafail

    A big chunk of Tony Abbott’s parental leave scheme will be paid for by retirees and those saving to retire.

    The slug to retirees has been engineered by the Coalition backroom and joins the Reserve Bank’s lower interest rate drive in the inter-generational attack game, which the older generation is losing.

    That fact that very few media outlets picked up the fact that retirees and those saving for retirement would pay a slice of the parental leave bill shows that the inter-generational game is not widely understood.

    Read more: http://www.businessspectator.com.au/article/2013/8/19/economy/retirees-will-pay-paid-parental-leave-scheme#ixzz2cSetLMrc

    Actually, I think the reason the media aren’t picking up on it is because it just doesn’t look good for their boy. But that’s just paranoid old me ;)

  174. “But when Labor loses this election however it will be because it played underwriter for the whole LNP Debt and Deficit scare campaign when it should’ve called it bullshit right from the start.”

    I don’t share your beliefs Mangrove Jack. But lets us say you are right. What is your opinion of a AAA credit rating?? Do we need one or not?? Because as sure as night follows day we will lose it if Labor wins the election.

  175. Because as sure as night follows day we will lose it if Labor wins the election.

    Didn’t we hear much of the same after 2007, 2010, 2013

    Notice a pattern here ;)

  176. JohnB I do apologise for suggesting you are influenced by the Murdoch media. I agree that borders on insulting. My defence is that I just cannot fathom how ANYONE could defend Abbott let alone vote for him unless they have been hoodwinked, brainwashed or labotomised.

    I am sorry you think I am “stupid and ignorant”. Please enlighten me as to why I should vote for a party/person who will take no action on climate change, will cut funding to education and no doubt health, will stop the NBN, will never support marriage equality, will treat asylum seekers like criminals, will reintroduce the ABCC and smash workers’ collective voice, will give tax cuts and welfare to the wealthy paid for by the poor, will stop the superannuation guarantee increase, will sacrifice God knows what to achieve a surplus ….and that’s only the stuff we KNOW about…the rest is secret Liberal business.

  177. It just gets worse and worse. The Liberal candidates don’t seem to know their own policies. Every day it becomes more apparent that none of them think they have to know or do anything to get elected. Even the usual standards of workplace behaviour seem irrelevant….after all it’s a charming compliment for your boss to kiss you, put his arm around you, tell the world you have sex appeal whilst belatedly assuring them that you are more than just a pretty face. And here is today’s offering….so far

    http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/liberal-candidate-kevin-baker8217s-offcolour-website-closed-down-after-links-to-pornography/story-fni0cx12-1226700187245

    http://www.bordermail.com.au/story/1714732/sophie-steals-our-thunder/?cs=11#disqus_thread

  178. @Kay Lee,
    Your hypocrisy astounds, just on the Asylum seeker issue where Rudd has gone far beyond what any Liberal government has done.
    Mind you, Labor had to do something since its incompetent handling led directly to the loss of over 1000 lives at sea and billions of dollars of wasted money.

    NBN,it won’t be stopped by the Libs, that’s another Labor lie.
    ABCC, some unions need a bit of policing, we see the standover tactics and corruption.
    Tax cuts, to whom, to those who pay proportionally more tax ?
    Super guarantee increase is merely being delayed because we’re spending too much freakin’ money GET THE IDEA ?
    Climate Change, the Libs have announced they have a plan on this, it’s just different to Labor’s.

  179. NBN,it won’t be stopped by the Libs, that’s another Labor lie.

    Have you seen the libs policy?

    It is not an NBN, it is a taxpayer funded foxtel extension.

  180. Sorry JohnB, Abbott will stop the NBN. Those areas that have started construction, in orange on the NBN Co website rollout, will be finished. Areas not started, in Blue and Green, won’t be constructed at all under Abbott.

    What we will end up with under Abbott is roughly around 30% NBN and 70% fraudband, a two tiered system.

    So Abbott is stopping NBN, including changing the head I believe probably to a toady.

  181. Labors NBN will never be built. After 6 years where is it?? It is easy to promise something in Opposition but another to deliver in govt.

    Labors NBN is too expensive for Australia. And it is a mistake for the govt to be building something like this. The Unions will want double, triple time for doing jobs.

  182. JohnB I have on many occasions expressed my disgust with BOTH parties on their asylum seeker policy. That ridiculous line about Labor being responsible for 1000 deaths at sea makes it hard for me to believe you are getting your information from anywhere other than Murdoch.

    Between 2000 and 2007 (the period which includes the introduction of the “Pacific Solution” for asylum seekers travelling by boat under the Coalition government), the database documents 746 reported deaths of asylum seekers. Of those, 363 asylum seekers died at sea while on their way to Australia. As well, 350 were presumed dead (their status is missing at sea with status unknown); 22 died in detention (the majority of those cases were suicide, but there were some deaths of natural causes); and 11 people were returned to Afghanistan and reportedly murdered for being “Australian spies”.

    Between 2008 and July 2013 (under Labor), 877 asylum seekers have reportedly died. Of those, 15 committed suicide or died of natural causes in detention centres. So during this period, approximately 862 individuals died trying to reach Australia’s mainland to seek asylum.

    Regarding the NBN of COURSE they are stopping it. The Labor policy hooks up my house, the Liberal one doesn’t.

    On the ABCC, I would strongly recommend you read this article about why it was abolished in the first place.

    http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/society-and-culture/building-watchdog-undermines-liberty-20100705-zxir.html

    Regarding tax cuts to the wealthy paid for by the poor, that goes against the principles that this society is based on. We provide a safety net for those that need it and recognise that those who can afford to should make a greater contribution. EVERY Liberal policy does the reverse of this. I could list them all (again) but this post is already getting too long.

    And if we are “spending too much freakin money” then could I suggest that wasting billions on breeding rich babies and on planting trees are ridiculous ideas. I will also point out that employers pay the super increase and that it would benefit ALL workers, not just Tony’s Mosman mums.

    And if you call Direct Action a plan for climate change then you have obviously not read any of the expert analysis that says is CANNOT work.
    “The Coalition’s plan is based on incomplete science, dubious economics and breath-taking political expediency. It will be hugely expensive. It won’t cut carbon emissions. It won’t even lead to lower taxes. And it will still introduce a shadow price for carbon.”

    http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/2804206.html

    http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/federal-election-2013/clean-energy-faces-4b-hit-20130818-2s5b9.html

  183. ” Of those, 363 asylum seekers died at sea while on their way to Australia.”

    Yes and faced with a problem the Howard govt did something about it. Too bad your vote encouraged people to start making the journey again.

    But the worst is that we no longer take people from UNHCR camps. Our refugees places are going to people with $10,000

  184. Neil you don’t know who I voted for at previous elections.

    Howard is responsible for turning asylum seekers into a political issue. ALWAYS in the past there had been bipartisan support for policy to deal with refugees. His demonising of them has changed Australian attitudes. We used to be a nation who looked to help those in need and to take a responsible role as a wealthy nation in helping with what is a global problem. Abbott has upped the ante so ALL we have heard for 6 years is STOP THE BOATS like it is some imminent terrorist invasion, an attack on the social fabric and the most important issue facing us.

  185. I noticed, that Abbott is carting around with him, the father of the house, on the Libs side. Needs someone to keep him in line. Once again, yesterdays man, for yesterday’s, Opposition.

  186. O.K. there are something like 20-45 million refugees who would want to come here. You can add to that 1-2 billion economic immigrants who would like to live here.

    Do you think we should let anyone in who wants to come??

    At the moment people from UNHCR camps cannot get in. Under Amanda Vanstone those are the people we took. So which govt is fairer??

  187. So which govt is fairer?

    Have you seen the libs latest lurch? And yet you still ask that question?

    How many did we take from Malaysia? (yes, we should take more)

  188. Labors NBN will never be built.

    Obviously not if Labor loses. Derp.

    After 6 years where is it??

    The first trial site in Tasmania was 2 years ago. That equates to 6 years does it? At least you are good at lying, because you aren’t good with facts Neil. Another one of your beauties. It’s a Liberal thang, I get it.

    Labors NBN is too expensive for Australia.

    Right and our military budget, fossil fuel subsides, fhog, bb, ppl and direct action is not? All cost more than recabling Australia in fibre, allowing us to compete in the digital age.

  189. I have been informed of what Abbott achieved as minister in the ancient Howard government. Yes, the younger Ms. Bishop, enlightened us this morning, in an ad. Yes, Mr. Abbott was responsible for the Green Corp and working for the dole.

    She forgot to say, also bringing in compulsory counseling. from religion based people before allow to go no, and have a abortion, and making the morning after pill nearly impossible to obtain.

    Then we have Mr. Abbott’s desire for two levels on divorce. One for those, that what to bring fault back.

    Can anyone inform me, how successful each was.

    Yes, Ms. Bishop, it does show some of Abbott’s nature.

  190. Neil, I do not believe that all refugees want to come here. I suspect the numbers that are coming now, might be all that want to come.

    Where is your evidence that say they do. Where is the evidence that anyone believes we should take all. Lowering that figure, back to 13,7000 is indeed a mean and stupid decision. It will only put more pressure to get on those leaky boats.
    We can afford to take more. Many of todays refugees, actually are educated and have skill we need.

    Mr. Shorten handling himself at the NPC ABC 24.

  191. How many good and solid labor people have walked out over Rudd. Deserted the party and closed their doors to the party forever. How many? How many are yet to bolt? Look into Shorten’s eyes. They say it all. He is struggling to swallow the bitter pill that is Rudd still. The labor train wreck continues and the cliff looms large. Some good people have been lost to the country because of this buffoon Rudd. Sportsbet odds – Coalition $1.09……ALP $7.25. ALP given 17.5 seats handicap. Yajustgottalaughsaysitallreally.

  192. Kayelee, the bookies don’t determine how people vote. They simply offer a market and the market for labor is…how shall I put this without offending you? Beyond hope. Even Robert Mugabe couldn’t win from here. yajustgottalaughreally. ;)

  193. Having worked as a bookmaker’s clerk during uni I can assure you they often get it wrong. And the only thing I find offensive about it is the fixation that so many people have with gambling.

  194. The Bali Group extraordinary meeting is on today. Burke and Carr attending. Why has it taken the ABC so late in the day, to remind us.

    See, we still have Abbott running across roads, and approaching people with”howw Aree youuu”

  195. Mr. Abbott, not every woman in the workforce are going to have a baby.

    Lower income women that are, I suggest you look at what Abbott is going to take from you to pay for it. Might find out, it is better to give his scheme the heave too, and keep the benefits that you get today, to help with family expenses, that go one for the childhood of your child.

    Maybe, if the global economy stabilizes, there will be room to extend the present Labor PPL scheme, which came out of Productivity Commission recommendations.

    No need to go the the expense of dismantling, a scheme that is working well. Yes, and also many still have the benefit of their wage packet schemes. Yes, cost shared between the taxpayer and industry.

    Does one really want Abbott’s grandiose scheme, that not even his party supports.

  196. Yes, scaper, even the risk of death does not stop them. Maybe, if you take a second to think, that will tell you something.

  197. Doubt that old Rupes is paranoid but the predictions of doom by the commenters here concerning an Abbott government is laughable so.

    Oh………..HAHAHAHAHAH!

  198. The Coalition’s climate change policy: it’s the public, not polluters, who pay

    The shortcomings of the Direct Action Plan are striking. If the Coalition is serious about tackling climate change, then it must offer voters a credible alternative to the carbon price

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/20/coalition-climate-change-direct-action

    http://www.politifact.com.au/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/aug/20/mark-butler/how-much-direct-action-cost/

  199. I don’t share your beliefs Mangrove Jack. But lets us say you are right. What is your opinion of a AAA credit rating?? Do we need one or not?? Because as sure as night follows day we will lose it if Labor wins the election.

    Getting a AAA rating from any of the agencies is like having Big Tobacco endorse better tobacco growing practices. I’m sorry Labor is wearing it as a badge of honour.

    Paradoxically, the loss of our AAA rating would actually indicate that our government was moving in the right direction to reflate the economy by expanding the deficit.

    The ratings agencies are just another arm of neo-liberal ideology, keeping Treasurers in line and avoiding impure thoughts of deficits that might, god forbid, help in lowering unemployment (and giving small business a fillip).

    S&P famously downgraded Japan in 2002 and was ignored by the bond market, but they kept a AAA on Lehman Bros right up until it went bust. We need a AAA rating like a hole in the head.

    It’s also bullshit that a downgrade would cause interest rates to rise because the government can staple the interest rate to the bonds. And the issuance of bonds is quite arbitrary serving mainly the interests of the corporate world who suck on the dividend teat.

    The bond vigilantes only demand a higher return when there’s sovereign risk as in the EU. That’s not possible under our currency regime.

    So you can see Neil, there’s a bit more to it.

  200. It’s also bullshit that a downgrade would cause interest rates to rise because the government can staple the interest rate to the bonds.”

    Maybe they can but we may not get any takers at a low rate. Would you lend any money to the Greeks??

    And i don’t share your beliefs re:debt.

  201. The world is on track to become up to five degrees hotter, and sea levels could rise more than 80 centimetres this century, according to a leaked draft of a landmark climate change report prepared for the UN.

    There is now a 95 per cent likelihood human greenhouse gas emissions are driving changes being observed globally, which in recent weeks have included extraordinary heatwaves in Asia and Alaska.

    That degree of certainty has been revised up from 90 per cent in the last report in 2007, 66 per cent in 2001, and just over 50 in 1995. A sea level rise of up to 82 centimetres, which would have serious impacts on coastal cities everywhere, is now ”unequivocal”, Reuters reported.

    Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/environment/climate-change/revealed-80cm-sea-rise-warning-20130819-2s7dt.html#ixzz2cU9xbv3f

  202. Geepers creepers Kaye…Must be the greatest moral dilemma of our time that must! Look on the bright side, more water=bigger oceans=more fish. Let’s all go fishing. yajustgottalaugh ;)

  203. You don’t share my beliefs re debt Neil because you don’t understand. And seem determined not to.

    I wouldn’t buy Greek bonds but plenty are, at 7 or 8 percent yield.

    Greece is not sovereign in its own currency, so its debt carries insolvency risk. Ours doesn’t (despite Barnaby’s hysterics last year).

    The bidding for our bonds far exceeds the volumes issued. Institutional investors would fill their sox if there was more.

  204. Getting a AAA rating from any of the agencies is like having Big Tobacco endorse better tobacco growing practices.

    Indeed. And it is a pity that the ALP’s gone down that path.

    But given we have that rating we should make use of it by significantly increasing our debt. As NAB chief executive Cameron Clyne argues:

    Australia has a debt problem – we don’t have enough …

    Australia had a “unique window” as a triple-A rated country to issue more debt to fund desperately needed infrastructure

    Most investors around the world are up to their eyeballs in northern hemisphere government paper. [But] we have a unique window, as a triple-A nation with strong demand for triple-A debt, to issue that debt and divert it to productive infrastructure

    Further he:

    criticised the level of debate about debt in recent times, calling it “very immature”.

    And indeed it is.

    More here: http://www.smh.com.au/business/more-debt-needed-for-investments-nab-chief-20130801-2r1k6.html

    Most people will recall that Costello was driven to cut debt. Simply, he went the wrong way. That’s why our infrastructure (both physical and intellectual) is badly underdone.

  205. Summo, a problem is that rising sea levels mean the inundation of wetlands and mangroves which are a prime breeding ground for fish. Want to go fishing..wait for it, then you need baby fish and somewhere for mummy fish to lay her eggs. This is why Pacific nations speak of starvation as a consequence of climate change..the food chain is broken by the rising waters.

  206. Col..not enough gumption displayed by Labor however cautious is definitely preferred over the other option, that being stuffing it up entirely.

  207. Hi Col,

    Economics Professor and former board member of the Reserve Bank (!) Warwick McKibbin said something similar last December:

    The federal government should abandon its pledge for a surplus and take the once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to raise more debt at historically low interest rates, former RBA board member Warwick McKibbin says.

    Rather than cutting spending, the government should use the large purchases by foreigners of Australian government debt to fund a Keynesian public spending program to drive growth, he told the Australian Business Economists conference in Sydney on Wednesday.

    Unfortunately, both Labor and the Coalition are going in the other direction, Labor out of fear of frightening the horses, and Hockey with a frightening religious conviction that the “government has to live within its means”, an utterly, utterly stupid and meaningless statement.

  208. Gee, apart from a few sparkling exceptions in this conversation, the only thing missing is a red flag with the hammer and sickle. Great to see so many of you all together to enjoy listening to your hero Kevin Rudd delivering his concession speech on the 7th. I wonder how many of your perfect souls have actually met Tony Abbott. Don’t know about what the press may say but from all reports those who genuinely “know” him swear by him and say he is one of the nicest, most dedicated and genuine men you will meet. I guess a bunch of keyboard warriors like yourselves would be much better informed though wouldn’t you?

  209. Yes Mangrove Jack, the political discourse is comical.

    What is also amusing is that politicians in their private lives don’t go down that path. Take T Abbott as an example.

    Tony had a change in work status that resulted in his annual income dropping by around $90,000 – a big loss in anyone’s language.

    How did Tony respond to this 40 per cent drop in income?

    Well, rather than selling the house and moving into smaller, more affordable premises, or taking his children out of the private school system and saving tens of thousands of after tax dollars, Tony called up his friendly mortgage provider and refinanced his mortgage

    Further:

    Always an optimist, Tony hoped that one day his income would again rise and while he waited for that day, he did in fact soldier on with his massive mortgage, massive spending and without there being a hint of belt tightening.

    As luck would have it, he unexpectedly saved $10,000 a year on his interest costs by the fact that mortgage interest rates dropped a thumping 3 per cent.

    I’m sure he’ll send a thank you note to whom ever helped get interest rates down so much.

    And as luck would have it, Tony’s had a pay rise and he’s now on around $350,000 year. Phew.

    It’s a good job Tony didn’t panic and sell his house and drag his kids out of school. Rather, he took on a bit of debt that he could easily afford as it turns out and it got him through the tough times.

    http://www.marketeconomics.com.au/2400-a-true-story-about-a-man-named-tony

  210. Yes he’s a wonderful man, just ask Barbara Ramjan and the late Bernie Banton.

    Fact is he is a vicious stumblebum.

  211. Abbott has been very successful, in breaking the nexus between the CEF and all that goes with it, and protecting the environment. Something I believe most support

    I believe most go along with Murdoch, and believe in given the planet the benefit of the doubt.

    Renewal energy production, regardless of ones feelings about carbon emission, will lead to a more efficient industry in the future.

    The high cost comes from the changeover. The ongoing costs are much cheaper than fossil fuels.

    Many companies have taken advantage of what is available under CEF. They now are in the position, of not only reducing the small extra cost, that came from the so called carbon tax. Yes, some have more than halve their power bills. This will continue far into the future.

    Direct Action promises nothing., In fact Abbott, is now saying the cap will stay. In other words, he is not interest in whether DA reduces carbon emissions or. Suspect, it will be quickly dumped, and the environment left to look after itself.

    If one truly believes that carbon emissions harm the environment, how can they put the problem on hold, for what could be a decade, which by then, it will be too late to act.

    The CEF has put more back into the economy, than it has taken out of it. I suspect, the funding for Abbott’s grandiose PPL, will harm the economy more. Those wealthy women, are not even likely to spend the extra money they receive, unless it is to buy a expensive, imported car.

    So if you do have concerns for the environment, before putting 1 on that paper in front of a Liberal, think hard, and only you can decide whether the risk is worth taking.

    Is there a better way, to address man made climate change, than what ewe have now. It will cost to dismantle it, and maybe replace with something else.

    At the end of the day, it is about how we fund the steps needed bring down carbon emissions.

  212. Oh Mack has arrived fresh from his travels to the centre. Latest brain fart is a sister city to Tennant Creek. Shakes head. Mack why don’t you ever succeed is anything you undertake? I could list the failures but I’ll wait and see how you behave.

    Talk about hebetude

  213. Just think, you could have accompanied the owner of the other place on his tour of the finest establishments in Asia, shame about the passport.

  214. Partyin… “your hero Kevin Rudd ”

    There must be something wrong with your comprehension skills. NO one here seres Rudd as a hero. Well not many anyway.

    What we are saying, no matter how much Rudd is found wanting, he ios still a damn lot safer that Abbott.

    Yes, many fear Abbott, and in most cases justified.

    As Lyndal Curtis, has just pointed out, that Labor has been making cuts, have been doing so for the term of this government. Yes, there have been many efficiency dividend, which makes cuts in the PS.

    One can wonder, if there is still waste and fat to cut.

    Liberals already one sweat down, with their candidate resigning. Not that I expect, he would have made much difference.

    Reminds one. of the large number of Cando;s’ men, that never made it to the starting line, with more to go shortly after.

    Sexist and racist jokes, seem to be a love of the Liberals.

  215. Wonder if the Menzies House trolls, have any idea of what they are up against, on these sites.

    Wonder how many will still be standing up to the election.

  216. Sad seeing a grown man losing it when someone gets under his skin, which happens a lot lately. Too easy.

    Migs what was this about allowing abuse in this blog and you should do something about it?

  217. and Hockey with a frightening religious conviction that the “government has to live within its means

    I agree with Hockey

  218. I really believe when Abbott took out that mortgage, he truly believed it would only be a matter of weeks, before he destroy Gillard, and he would take over her job. No debt problem then.

    In spite of throwing one of the longest Opposition leaders dummy spit, and crying I was robbed, Abbott failed, failed badly in his quest to topple Gillard.

    I suspect, he had little to do with her demise, and Gillard had his measure when she called that spill.

    The only thing that Abbott prevented going ahead, in three years, was the Houston Plan in an attempt to stop the boats coming. Labor even caved into Abbott and put a harsher Pacific Solution back in place. It failed.

  219. scaper, if Murdoch is not paranoid, maybe he should be. If one follows recent actions by the police in the UK, they are coming after him.

  220. Seen him action, when he was Health Minister. Seen him with Ms.. Roxon. That is enough for me. If not, seeing in action, with his many stunts,in QT, cements the fact.

    Mr. Abbott;l is not a nice man.

  221. My predictions for the future, if Abbott wins.

    We will see Abbott making his cuts, most that are more about ideology than economics.

    He is going to cut spending, to fit the cloth, or as he puts in, living within our means.

    What we will see, as he cuts, the revenues falling further, then having to cut some more. Yes, cutting in the race, to get ahead of the revenue, that are rolling down hill.

    What happens when there is nothing left to cut. We had Hockey tell us last night, there is nothing left to sell. The ABC is not on Hockey’s list. Appears it does not make a profit.

    Funny, I thought prudent business men, held onto what makes profits. Income comes in handy.

    Now it appears, Howard did have a audit into the ABC. Was told it does a great job for the limited funding it gets. No waste. The auditor recommended, if one want a worthwhile service, more money is needed.

    I do not remember if Howard did gave extra money, but he sure packed the board. Yes, no wonder Hockey loves the ABC, his ABC I think.

  222. scaper, we do hope that Hockey shares some of his family who are in the rag trade.

    scaper, if one cuts that cloth incorrectly, the garment produced is hopeless, fit only for cleaning rags.

  223. Living within ones means to day, does include debt. Debt that allows one to get ahead. Only care needs, is that one has the means to service the debt. I am sure, we, as a wealthy country, in all ways, will cope very well.

  224. Trouble about economics, it is much more complicated than debt, as many see.

    It more that cutting that cloth to fit, it is about cutting it, in a way that produces something that one can wear, something that fits.

    “……………………….So far, the claims and counterclaims have surrounded the government’s estimate that Abbott will need to make cuts of $70 billion over the period of the forward estimates. The Opposition has disputed this without, so far, offering an alternative estimate. Regardless of the precise numbers, however, it is clear that the Opposition is promising to return the budget to surplus more rapidly than Labor, and that this must involve cuts in public expenditure. The key question is, what effect will such cuts have in an economy that is already showing signs of weakness.

    Tony Abbott’s views on macroeconomic management are clear. The aim of fiscal policy should be to deliver consistent surpluses of between 1 and 2 per cent of GDP. Implicit in this target is a recognition that shocks such as recessions will occasionally push the budget into deficit. In such circumstances, governments should exercise even tighter fiscal restraint to ensure a rapid return to surplus. Active macroeconomic policy should be left to the Reserve Bank and focused on maintaining low and stable inflation.

    Although Abbott presents himself as favoring ‘practical solutions to practical problems’ rather than ‘market theory’, his position is derived from the ‘classical’ free-market economic theory that held sway before the Great Depression, and was revived as ‘New Classical economics’ in the 1980s. On the classical view, recessions and depressions in a market economy are self-correcting. Government attempts to stimulate the economy can do no good, and may do positive harm by ‘crowding out’ more productive private investment.

    The alternative view, put forward by John Maynard Keynes during the Great Depression, is that the economy can remain depressed for long periods, and that, in such circumstances, fiscal stimulus through well-targeted tax cuts and public projects can increase employment and economic growth. The flip side of the Keynesian view is that governments should run substantial surpluses during boom periods, in order to stabilize the economy and balance the budget over the course of the economic cycle.

    Keynesian policies achieved great success in the decades after World War II, when unemployment rates fell to 2 per cent or less, economic growth was consistently strong, and income inequality declined to levels never seen before or since. But Keynesianism fell out of favor during the inflationary crisis and remained so, with brief exceptions (such as the Accord period, and the Keating government’s Working Nation program) until the Global Financial Crisis.

    Faced with the potential collapse of the global economy, and the absence of any coherent policy response from the classical school, most governments implemented Keynesian policies to some extent in the immediate aftermath of the financial meltdown of 2008. However, most such policies were halfhearted and rapidly scaled down. The eurozone and the UK went further, adopting ‘austerity’ policies focused on (largely unsuccessful) attempts to reduce deficits and debt.

    The only major governments to undertake and sustain Keynesian fiscal stimulus were those of China and Australia. It has sometimes been argued, by supporters of the classical view that Australia’s stimulus had no effect, and that our economy was rescued by strong demand from China. This amounts to the nonsensical claim that fiscal stimulus in China was effective enough to provide a substantial flow-on benefit to Australia, but that fiscal stimulus in Australia had no effect.

    The outcomes of the GFC speak for themselves. Australia was almost the only developed country to avoid a recession. Where fiscal stimulus was limited and temporary, as in the US, recovery from the recession has been slow and weak. Where classical austerity measures were implemented, as in much of Europe, there has been no recovery at all. In the UK, for example, often taken as a model by Australian conservatives, GDP is still 4 per cent below its peak of five years ago. On present indications, it will take a decade, and quite possibly more to repair the damage done by austerity policies.

    The stimulus package introduced in 2009 included, quite appropriately, a strategy for a return to surplus as the economy recovered. Unfortunately, after committing to an optimistic timetable, former Treasurer Wayne Swan treated the return to surplus as an end in itself, not a tool of macroeconomic management. This effectively conceded the ground in the macroeconomic debate to Abbott and the opponents of Keynesian stimulus.

    To win the election Rudd needs to move beyond attacks on the specifics of Abbott’s policies (or the lack thereof). He must explain why the Keynesian and social democratic policies he espoused and implemented in his first term as PM are the right way forward for Australia, and why the Howard government policies of consistent surpluses, regardless of economic conditions, represent a recipe for disaster next time there is an economic crisis……………

    http://johnquiggin.com/2013/08/20/reading-the-economic-theories-of-rudd-and-abbott/#comments

    Nannies are back on the agenda. Yes, we do have Abbott’s childcare policy, or at least, an aspirational proposal. He will be sending childcare to the Productivity Commission. That body will be very busy under Abbott. Cannot see any cuts of PS there.

    Many problems with nannies. How doe on know they are not house keepers. How does one protect children from abuse, when left alone with the nanny. Hard to supervise, in childcare and other places, children gather.

    Do we allow, two or three mothers to get together and share a nanny.

    Will Abbott seek to lower the high standards we now have in childcare, as we hear them say, we cannot afford these standards.

    Should the centres be seen more as centres of education, instead on just child minding.

  225. Neil, this I know, you will not like.

    “…………To win the election Rudd needs to move beyond attacks on the specifics of Abbott’s policies (or the lack thereof). He must explain why the Keynesian and social democratic policies he espoused and implemented in his first term as PM are the right way forward for Australia, and why the Howard government policies of consistent surpluses, regardless of economic conditions, represent a recipe for disaster next time there is an economic crisis..

    http://johnquiggin.com/2013/08/20/reading-the-economic-theories-of-rudd-and-abbott/#comments

  226. @Scaper, I don’t think anyone here would have a problem with you fitting more than a short sentence into each of your comments. Just sayin. Unless of course you have some sort of short term memory loss, in which case your disability is forgiven.

    @ Party in September

    the only thing missing is a red flag with the hammer and sickle.

    . Wow, reds under the beds much? Someones done a number on you. I blame Bolt and Jones.

    I wonder how many of your perfect souls have actually met Tony Abbott. Don’t know about what the press may say but from all reports those who genuinely “know” him swear by him and say he is one of the nicest, most dedicated and genuine men you will meet.

    But……….he’s a fuckwit. It’s verified. It’s not a point of contention. Liberal trolls and partisans here might defend Howard, but not Abbott. There is a consensus.

    @Neil

    I agree with Hockey

    Yeah, so in the state of budget emergency we supposedly have, we need to use $5B of the public’s money to give to wealthy women,in more middle class welfare. Yeah, dire emergency. It’s just dire Neil.

    There are blackholes in their promises already and there is another 3 weeks of thir pork barreling to come. In a time when we have a supposed budget emergency. I guess there are people that fall for that shit.

  227. Party In September, I went to university with Tony Abbott. Our circles overlapped at times and I also went to his house once for a family party. I can assure you he is an ignorant bully with delusions of grandeur. I dismissed him in those days as an inconsequential bovver boy who was completely out of touch with the ideals most people held in the 70′s. He is still an ignorant, sexist, homophobic bully who would do ANYTHING to be captain. He would be completely out of his depth as Prime Minister. Without Credlin writing his script and his daughter holding his hand he won’t have a friggin clue what to say.

  228. Kaye, I have an S-I-L, a ex brother that agrees with your assessment. He went further, and said sister was not much better. An arrogant, know it all, was how he was described to me.

  229. It what some say about Abbott is true, it goes against normality. Most are street saints, and home devils.

  230. I agree with Hockey

    Neil, if I told you the Sun rose in the East and if I held the hairy palm of your hand against it, you would not believe me, such is the fervour of your tribal loyalty.

    And stupidity.

    It’s what I call “religion”.

    “Not all Conservatives are stupid, but most stupid people are conservative”.

    J. S. Mill

  231. Migs what was this about allowing abuse in this blog and you should do something about it?

    Mo, it’s always the case; go away for a few hours and the hounds get in.

    Having just been through the comments I do detect a large number that will be deleted. The number of comments from scaper are about to reduce drastically.

  232. Scaper, ninety per cent of your comments here are to snipe at other contributors. You seem to enjoy spending your time ridiculing people.

    The other ten per cent offer some good contributions and these are welcomed. The others are not and will be deleted as soon as possible.

  233. Michael scaper’s MO is obvious. He enjoys baiting people. I don’t find him offensive….I find him irrelevant.

  234. It’s just “little man” syndrome. A cry for attention and relevance from someone who is small and irrelevant. You’ll find he will get more offensive as he gets less attention. Unfortunately I don’t think we”ve seen the worst of his behaviour – that will come after he realises that he has been used by the powerful for their own ends, and that the real “pissant” is him.

    Sad, but that’s what the future holds for this “wanna be”, whatever the outcome of the election…

    Just sayin’…

  235. Kaye, many of us have known scaper for a number of years and it goes without saying that he thus knows many of us. Sadly, he uses this knowledge to the wrong advantage and some of his comments are a bit personal. Banter is OK. Defamation isn’t.

  236. What Bacchus said.

    The ‘rich’ always get the ‘poor’ to do their fighting for them and he is a classic example. But methinks it could be more serious than that. There’s significant mental issues at play here.

    As for his ‘contacts’, one of the first rules of politics is that you don’t ever waste a vote no matter how stupid that voter’s views are. You humour them. Thank them. Praise them. Encourage them. Stroke their egos. Whatever it takes.

    Sad but true.

  237. Pingback: The question no-one can answer | Café Whispers

  238. Please Michael don’t get rid of our ‘pet’ scaper… all your regulars would miss his inane comments and attempts to rile us up too too much…

  239. Melanie, you’ll be pleased to hear that scaper is always welcome to comment at CW. Goodness, it’s about the only blog site that hasn’t banned him.

    But I’ll still delete his comments if they contain a ‘personal’ attack at people.

  240. thank you Michael, agree about personal attacks, that’s just ‘not cricket’ is it?!… not surprised to hear he has been banned elsewhere! But we must be kind to our ‘pets’, and lets face it they are just so much fun to play with. Have you noticed their yaps seem to be getting shriller, I wonder why?

    Loving the articles and comments I find here, thank you all so much.

    Mel.

  241. Migs, I for one have been horribly offended by Scaper….. he called me a *sob* ….. wait for it :( ….. a turd… umm, something…. wot was it again… wot eva.. does’nt matter….. but I found it to be ‘highly’ offensive…. and he should be immediately banned, as of this moment, and/or NOW…or if not sooner :razz:
    …… and for that matter , so should Neil….. if only for this :roll: ” Labors NBN will never be built. After 6 years where is it?? It is easy to promise something in Opposition but another to deliver in govt.
    Labors NBN is too expensive for Australia. And it is a mistake for the govt to be building something like this. The Unions will want double, triple time for doing jobs” ….. FFS Neil, your either .. a ‘try hard’ aspirational, who’s only intent is to, umm,.. try and derail :lol: ….. or your an complete and utter ad hominem-wit dumb-arsed completely irrevelent out of touch luddite wrongminded dope… oh, and a stoopid F*Wit…. (did I mention Dumb-arse node muncher)….. guess which way I’m lean’n Neill, you idiot :D

  242. Hehehehehe…by the way, the first load of women and children were flown out to Devil’s Island last night. There has been a media ban placed on this but a certain person on Christmas Island is reporting on another blog complete with photos.

  243. grog has a good go at it too Bob

    The Liberal Party, who so loudly and boldly defend self-funded retirees, is now getting them to help pay for a paid parental leave scheme which they won’t get any possible benefit from and which is also a dud of a scheme because it won’t deliver the productivity benefits Abbott and Hockey claim it will.

    Wow that’s great policy and outstanding politics!

    http://grogsgamut.blogspot.com.au/2013/08/election-2013-day-16-or-frankly-my-dear.html

  244. SPORTSBET ODDS Coalition price has shortened further this morning to $1.08, ALP out to $7.50. Anyone like to hazard a guess as to why?

  245. Umm, because the LNP has promised Tom Waterhouse clones that there can be indefinite promotion of online gambling during sporting events. :mrgreen:

  246. It is good that the Greens have released their costings. Gives some insight into Abbott;s missing costings. The Guardians own costings have shown, that when Family Benefits are taken into consideration, the nett amount is much less than Abbott claims. One should not forget, this policy was taken to the 2010 election, along with most of this campaign. Nothing new.

    Yes, those costings are need. No good the likes of Dutton saying, we will get therm, when they are good and ready. That also goes for their health policies. Expect a few unwelcome details there as well.

    Advice to read the small print, has never been so important.

  247. Any of you lot starting to sense that Labor should have stuck with Gillard to get a better result?

    At least with Gillard they would have had something to sell on the last three years of government, Rudd has nothing!

  248. I wonder why Christopher Pyne declined the invitation to debate Bill Shorten at the National Press Club.

    I wonder why Peter Dutton has not been seen since the campaign started (3 years ago).

    Education and health….not that important obviously. Or are they avoiding questions?

  249. scaper, please show me one comment, that does not believe Gillard had Abbott’s measure. Find one person, that believed Rudd would do better. Please, it does help, if you bother to have some truth in your comments.

    Yes, most support Gillard, but accept that the Labor caucus has to right to change leaders,.

    After all, Labor government is much more that a leader. Many are also sad, at the many good ministers that decided to retire. Thankfully, due to the depth of Labor talent, the replacement are doing a good, very good job.

    This is to be compared with the Howard shadow front bench, which one can only say, represents stagnation, and lack of talent in Abbott’s party.

    In fact, I am surprised that Rudd is traveling reasonably well. It appears there are many more men, outside the 7% of Labor male voters, identified in polls, that just cannot bear having females in positions of power, along with the racists that seem to abound.

    We have O’Farrel saying yesterday, that shadow minister Burney, did not earn her promotions. Yes, according to the Premier, she only in the job because she is of Aboriginal descent. Might have helped her get onto the first step, but after that, she would have been on her own.

    In fact, working in DOC’s or FAC’s or whatever they call it now,, many Aboriginal people came into the department, and competed on the same level, as everyone else. The only place this might not have occurred, is the special Aboriginal units within the department.

    scaper, Rudd will do OK, as long as he does not forget the considerable achievements of the last three years.

    No scaper, once again, you have it wrong.

    Governments, at the end of the day, are not about one person., In fact, under our system, they only exist Wilkes they hold the confidence of their caucus.

  250. Rudd just criticized about talking about Abbott’s policies. Rudd replied that he is js
    pointing out how many people will lose their job, if Abbott closed down Medicare Locals, among many other projects that Abbott is attacking.

    Yes, I believe that Rudd has a duty, to point out how Mr. Abbott’s policies will affect us. That is not talking about Abbott, but about what he intends to do.

    Maybe, if the media did their job, Mr. Rudd could concentrate more on Labor policies.

    Rudd, said he has a responsibility to do so. He not only has the

    If Abbott keeps his policies and costings hidden, one has no option, but to fill in the vacant spots.

  251. An Abbott supporter has said that wage levels are out of control, and we need a Margaret Thatcher type of government.

    Is this true. Where is the evidence for such a statement. I was under the illusion, that wages maybe falling behind,

    Where are the wages that are excessive. We seen Holden workers, last week, vote to take wage cuts.

    Yes, with Abbott, one needs to read fine print, and now, between the lines.

    What he does not say, seems to be more important, than what he does.

  252. Penny Wong and Chris Bowen now on ABC 24.

    That debate tonight, has to involve the PPL. I suspect not much else will get a look in. A truly undecided audience, would have this, the top of their list.

  253. Where are the pensioners and retirees organizations? Nigh a word from them in the last couple of days. they do sure get out fast, when there is a chance to condemn Labor.

  254. Bring back the ABCC I say because we need a “tough cop on the beat”!

    “Since the ABCC and Building and Construction Industry laws came in during 2005, there has been a massive increase in deaths and serious injuries in our industry.

    The number of deaths has gone up:
    from 3.14 per 100,000 workers in 2004 – before the ABCC started –
    to 4.8 per 100,000 workers in 2007 and 4.27 in 2008.

    The construction laws and ABCC have taken us back to the terrible situation of, on average, one construction being killed on the job every week.

    Limits on right of entry for union organizers have made safety worse.”

    “The ABCC did virtually nothing about safety issues, misconduct by employers or sham contracting arrangements which avoid billions of dollars a year in tax.

    Despite the colourful claims of corruption and thuggery used to justify the ABCC’s existence, it has failed to find widespread wrongdoing by union officials, despite spending $135 million of taxpayers money.”

    “The ABCC can force people to answer questions in secret and to reveal documents that relate to any of its investigations. This negates a person’s right to silence. It also removes their privilege against self-incrimination, a protection that has been described by the High Court as a ”cardinal principle of our system of justice” and a ”bulwark of liberty”.

    There are no limits on the type of information that can be sought by the ABCC. A person can be compelled to hand over personal phone and email records, reveal memberships of a union or political party, and report on private meetings.
    This can be applied to anyone. Workers can be brought in, not because they are suspected of wrongdoing, but to report on the activities of their co-workers. Family members, including young children, can be told to reveal information about a parent in the building industry.”

  255. Kaye, how many unionists did they manage to convict. Seem to remember more employers, in the industry before the court. For a man, that is getting rid of bureaucracy, he sure creating a lot more.

    We hear so much of the green and red tape he is getting rid of.,It appears it going to bring back the days, of factories on every corner.

    As a side interest, can they tell me why so many regulations, came into being.

    Pretty please, just an example of two, of what is to go.

  256. Abbott did have a long list, and did sound passionate, when talking about taking the IR pendulum back to towards the employers.

    Trouble is, under Fair Work, wages have not gone through the ceiling. Nor have strikes. Most actions appear to be lockouts.

    Productivity, has risen, from the days of Work Choices, where it went backwards.
    Are there any genuine reasons for dismantling Fair Work, in any way.

    Yes, we had the HSU scandal. but most of that occurred years ago, under WC and it’s predecessor. It now has been dealt with, and is back on course to be a good union., for the workers it covers.

    he people responsible for the HSU scandal are all before the court, and if convicted, will face big penalties. Why the need for another body, to supervise unions. Yes, another body Abbott wants to set up.

  257. It’s for when Labor wins the right wingers in their usual massive dummy spit can say Labor cheated by campaigning without their logo, in so doing fooling the voters.

  258. I know! (lightbulb)

    It’d be because the ALP brand stinks and the ALP are trying to reduce the damage, or as you lefties say “save some furniture”. Just like when you basket weavers threw Gillard off the end of the pier.

    yajustgottalaugh ;) Coalition $1.08 ALP $7.50. – SPORTSBET.

  259. “Malcolm Turnbull is campaigning without the Liberal Party logo on his material nor using the Liberal Party colours, can someone tell me why?”

    It is a personal brand thing.

  260. Everyone knows who Turnbull is you see scaper. As for the treasurer, when asked “who is Australia’s current treasurer” most of Western Sydney (his electorate I believe) said fucked if I know?

    yajustgottalaugh ;)

  261. I think the voters, even in western Sydney are smart enough to know who Bowen is. Has not been hidden for the last six years.

    If OK for one, OK for all.

    I know those on the right, believe rules and laws only apply to Labor, but sadly, for them, they are wrong.

    How much has Abbott promised to pull out of industry assistance today. How far is he going with IR.

    It appears that Abbott must believe the tripe that comes out of his mouth, that his actions are going to improve productivity and profits. Pigs will also fly, Mr. Abbott.

    It appears that Abbott believes, all he has to do, is rescind CEFC and carbon tax, along with cutting back green and red tape, and industry will bloom. Do not like his chance of bringing this miracle about. Of course, the worker has to be put back in their place.

    Yes, very interesting PC of Abbott, Mirabella and Hockey.

    Senator Carr summed up what he said, well.

  262. The football scandals are going to take the heat off Abbott. What Abbott said today, will go under the radar. Well what is new.

  263. This morning I was delighted to be at the Broncos Leagues Club with Tony Abbott and Premier Newman to announce that they will remain at Red Hill.
    The Liberal Nationals will commit $5 million to redevelopment, and this new facility will have enormous community benefit. Then at lunchtime, Tony spoke to workers at the Volvo plant in Oxley where he launched the Coalition’s plan for supporting manufacturing.
    So it’s been a good day so far – but the day isn’t over yet.
    At 6.30pm, attention shifts back to the Broncos Leagues Club as it plays host to the second leaders’ debate of this election. Remember: the only reason this debate is happening is because Tony wanted to talk to real people from across Queensland. Rudd insisted on just talking to journalists, but had to do another backflip.
    Tony will be putting forward his positive plan, not just for my seat but across the state. I’ll be there at the debate to support him, but you can support Tony from the comfort of your home. Nowadays debates aren’t restricted to public halls – they play out on social media between friends, followers and strangers.
    Here are three things you can do:
    1. Post your thoughts on Twitter using the hashtags #pplsforum and #realchange (if this sounds like gobbledegook to you, here’s a handy guide to getting started on Twitter).
    2. Follow @LNPQLD on Twitter for livetweets of key lines from the debate. Many of our MPs, myself included, are also tweeting throughout the campaign – you can see a list of us here.
    3. Show your support on Facebook by Liking both the LNP Page and Tony Abbott’s Page, if you haven’t already. And most importantly – spread the message by clicking Share on LNP posts, and posting your own status updates.
    This is your debate – so join in. Whether online or offline, I’m confident that the more people see the choice that faces them at this election, the more they will see that only the LNP can bring the Real Change our nation needs.
    Thank you,
    Teresa Gambaro

  264. In fact, going to pressure John Roskam tomorrow. The last thing society needs is youth oberfuhrers in the guise of school principals to be the arbiters of off school activity.

    Goes back to the reverse onus of proof theology which is a slap in the face of natural justice.

  265. I see Abbott’s manufacturing and industry policy announced today is going to dud business out of hundreds of millions.

    Another Abbott brain fart going down in flames.

  266. It appears, sexism and racism is indeed in their DNA.

    ……………..The Premier responded that Ms Goward ”has achieved every position in her life on merit”, before turning to Ms Burney and declaring: ”You can’t say that.”
    Advertisement
    The comment was met with laughter from the government backbench.
    Opposition leader John Robertson said Mr O’Farrell to apologise for the comments ”which have no place in Australia”.
    ”Ms Burney is unequalled in merit and achievement,” he said in a statement. ”In addition to being the first indigenous person elected to the state’s Parliament and first indigenous minister, Ms Burney is the chairperson of the Australian Rugby League Indigenous Council, has spoken at the United Nations on three separate occasions and is a former President of the Australian Labor Party.”
    ”It would be inappropriate for any member of the community to make those sorts of comments, let alone the Premier of NSW”.
    Mr O’Farrell has a history of taunting Ms Burney in parliament. He once joked that she could play ”hooker” in a rugby league team and accused her of ”casting her spells”.
    At a media conference shortly after question time, Ms Burney said she had ”come to expect those sorts of insults from Premier O’Farrell”.
    ”It’s not the first time he’s made those sort of imputations about me and my capacity,” she said.
    ”I have won every position I’ve ever had based on my capacity and my merit. The Premier continues to make a fool of himself when he says those sorts of things.”
    Asked if she believed the comment was racially motivated, Ms Burney said she ”can’t prove that. All I can say he’s made imputations about my reputation, my capacity … and he needs to be able to back those up.”
    Ms Burney, the member for Canterbury, is a former school teacher who holds an honorary doctorate in education from Charles Sturt University.
    She has served on the boards of SBS, the NSW Anti-Discrimination Board and the NSW Board of Studies.
    Mr O’Farrell’s office has been approached for comment but has denied our request………..

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/barry-ofarrell-accused-of-racial-slur-against-indigenous-labor-frontbencher-linda-burney-20130820-2s93s.html#ixzz2caTTmXos

  267. ME. does Abbott really believe, rescinding the Carbon tax and all that goes with, as well as the MRRT will help the economy.

    Does he really believe, doing the above plus removing green and red tape regulations, and business and industry will bloom..

    Of course, he will also be moving back the IR pendulum, back to the employers, from the comments, that swing back will be great.

  268. As for the Pommy business, that said we need dose of Thatcher, I suggest he compare the UK economy and ours over the last few years.

    I know what one, I rather.

  269. “I know what one, I rather.

    Cameron is trying to repair the mess that Blair/Brown left.

    Another Labor govt which left a trashed budget for someone else to clean up.

  270. “This morning I was delighted to be at the Broncos Leagues Club with Tony Abbott and Premier Newman to announce that they will remain at Red Hill.
    The Liberal Nationals will commit $5 million to redevelopment, and this new facility will have enormous community benefit.”

    “The Broncos are the only publicly listed NRL club.[28] The parent company of the Brisbane Broncos is Nationwide News Pty Ltd, a subsidiary of News Limited, which as of 30 June 2007, owns 68.87% of Broncos shares.”

    Onya Tone!

  271. Curent odds. Coalition $1.08 Alp $7.50 says the majority think Mr Tony Abbott will prove to be an excellent PM. Back the odds Cuppa, or perhaps you might have $1 on ALP…..if you have one left that is. Then again, put your money where your mouth is. Your such a confident little prick, place $10,000 to win $75,000. Go on I dare ya! Then again hold off, odds will no doubt drift to 20/1 by Sept 7th and you could earn enough to piss off.
    yajustgottalaugh ;)

  272. Summo I notice you are fixated with bookies odds. That’s kind of like relying on landlines for polls if you ask me. May I suggest that the people who are placing bets on the election (and hence determining the odds) may not be a representative sample of the populace.

  273. Tony Abbott will be the next PM because….’ he just will’….. the Coalition Policies are better because…..’ they just are’…… The LNP will run a better and smaller Govt. because..’ that’s what they do…. it’s in their DNA’….. and Tony Abbott will be a better PM because ………………………………………………………………………….. . *crickets* …… *whip-o-whill, whip-o-whill* …. *crickets* …. *Kar-Kar* ……*crickets* ……

  274. Well there’s an intelligent response AKA we’re better because i say we are. Sums up the Noalition’s total unwillingness to actually operate like an alternative govt ever since Rudd was elected in 07. They have been like we are the rightful leaders and we just don’t like it so we will behave like spoiled children

  275. Hey Kaye lee..do you think that this thread is a representative sample of the populace?

    seriouslyyoumakemelaugh ;) Coalition s$1.08 ALP $7.50>>>>

  276. Gone a bit quiet around here, could it be because of this?

    Just finished doing Kevin Rudd and Tony Abbott’s makeup for the People’s Forum at the Broncos Leagues Club.

    One of them was absolutely lovely, engaged in genuine conversation with me, acknowledge that I had a job to do and was very appreciative. The other did the exact opposite! Oh boy, I have ever had anyone treat me so badly whilst trying to do my job. Political opinions aside…from one human being to another…Mr Abbott, you win hands down.

    —————————————————–

    Anybody that has ever spent time with both men (which I have ) will tell you exactly the same,” one friend posted. “Abbott a genuine decent man, Rudd an elitist grub who thinks he is superior to all!!!!”

    —————————————————–

    It is going viral and now in the mainstream but I’m sure you lot will dismiss Rudd’s disgusting behaviour due to your moral deficiencies.

  277. lol scaper

    a lib party hack reckons tabots ‘engaging’ lol

    Others might say he just Never Shuts Up :shock:

    Political opinions aside

    Yea, right ;)

  278. Scaper..you’ve made a certain little air hostess’s day you have. Besides Rude’s groping hands in the NY strip club are well enough documented to highlight his misogynist streak….is it any wonder Plibersek & Ellis hate his guts.

    yajustgottalaugh ;)

  279. Rudd’s excuse: “I don’t know about you blokes, but I’m not happy having make-up put on the best of days,”

    No reason to be rude, the creep!

  280. I notice the workchoice Liberals are avoiding Migs’ challenge to state WHY Abbott would be a ‘better PM’. Their silence is a concession that he would NOT be better. Something we knew all along.

  281. this behaviour should not be tolerated

    What behaviour? Read the pertinent section comments which this person has now withdrawn

    I asked you before to show me where I lied. I’l ask again. Or will you just Shut Up :lol:

    JULIA GILLARD: School by school there are thousands…

    TONY ABBOTT: She just never shuts up does she?

    http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2010/s2850600.htm

    He has a history of being a pig, documented, not just a smear put out buy someone who then changes their story. What a low, filthy act. It is all we have come to expect from you libs.

  282. Scaper @ 11:19.

    News.com have removed the story. Very quickly they might add. They obviously found out it was a load of crap.

    I’m not surprised that you fell for it.

  283. I notice the workchoice Liberals are avoiding Migs’ challenge to state WHY Abbott would be a ‘better PM’. Their silence is a concession that he would NOT be better. Something we knew all along.

    Cuppa, never in my wildest dreams did I ever think they could answer the question. The right wingers who visit here lack the brain cells to answer such an easy question.

  284. You have to be kidding, Workchoices? Talk about living in the past.

    And with that statement, scaper, you have proven to be a hypocrite. Is it not you who almost daily laughs that when this govt is kicked out that you are looking forward to people being paid $2 a day? Parrot-like statements then generally followed by a childish ”ha ha ha ha” or “bwa bwa bwa” or the like.

  285. Migs, one simple question. You have known me on the blogs since 2006, tell me…what was the main issue that made me vote Labor in 2007?

    Come on, be honest.

  286. It had been removed but since re-instated on news.com but now with different journalists and of course a comment from Turnbull.

    Shame on the media for focusing on non-stories.

  287. Yep, the media bias just lights up when their boy gets trounced, doesn’t it scapes.

    btw, my lie, show me, or perhaps, Shut Up! :lol:

  288. 12.17pm: NATS ASKED FOR CASH TO ‘DESTROY SLIPPER’: PALMER

    AAP: Clive Palmer says Liberal National Party candidate Mal Brough directly asked him for money to fund the failed sexual harassment case against former speaker Peter Slipper.

  289. Mr Palmer said while no exact figure was discussed with Mr Brough, who is running against Mr Slipper in Fisher, he understood the costs would be at least $200,000.

    “He (Mr Brough) said to me we needed to destroy Peter Slipper,” Mr Palmer said of the April 2012 meeting at his Sunshine Coast resort.

    “He said he had all the evidence to put Peter Slipper away for a very long time.”

  290. I’ve removed the comment where scaper called you a liar.

    I don’t care about what a gutless twerp says Migs. Feel free to put it back up, cos I’m calling him on it.

    Put Up or Shut Up! scapes :lol:

  291. SKY NEWS has been made aware of comments posted on social media by a freelance make-up artist used at the Broncos Leagues Club last night.

    The individual is not a SKY NEWS staff member.

    The comments posted were extremely unprofessional and we do not agree with them.

    We understand the post has now been removed and she has expressed her regret over the matter.

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