Tony Abbott: nasty to the core

I used to think that John Howard was a mean-spirited, nasty piece of work, but in comparison to Tony Abbott he appears as kind, caring and compassionate as Mother Teresa.

Tony Abbott is far, far more mean-spirited. He demonstrates this in the way he ignores human misery and the way he belittles those who are suffering from it. He is, in a nutshell, nasty to the core.

Stories surface that he’s been inherently nasty for as long as people have known him, but it wasn’t until 2005 that I first took notice of his extreme level of nastiness and lack of compassion for human misery when it was hoisted onto the national stage. It came only hours after the NSW Leader of the Opposition, John Brogden, had attempted suicide. The Age reported at the time that:

The day after Mr Brogden was found unconscious in his electorate office with self-inflicted wounds, Mr Abbott publicly joked at two separate Liberal Party functions about the disgraced leader’s career-wrecking behaviour . . . Mr Abbott was asked at a fund-raising lunch about a particular health reform proposal and reportedly answered: “If we did that, we would be as dead as the former Liberal leader’s political prospects.”

Nasty. To the core. And to a mate.

He also claimed that Bernie Banton was a mate. Not that he acted like one.

When Tony Abbott was the Minister for Health, the dying asbestos disease sufferer Bernie Banton obtained a petition containing 17,000 signatures of those who supported the listing of the mesothelioma drug Alimta on the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme. This petition was to be presented in person to Tony Abbott. If it wasn’t disrespectful enough to snub the petition, then his verbal response certainly was.

Yesterday, Mr Abbott was quick to dismiss the petition.  “It was a stunt,” Mr Abbott said on the Nine Network.

“I know Bernie is very sick, but just because a person is sick doesn’t necessarily mean that he is pure of heart in all things.”

He loves making fun of dying people. Does he expect we’ll all laugh along with him?

He even has a go at deceased people. Margaret Whitlam wasn’t even in the grave before Tony Abbott used her death to score cheap political points.

The death of Margaret Whitlam caused such an outpouring of saddened fondness that comments by the Opposition Leader, Tony Abbott, linking her passing with the sins of the Whitlam government appear to have struck an extremely wrong note.

He said she was a ”woman of style and substance” and ”a marvellous consort to a very significant Labor leader and an epochal Australian prime minister”.

”There was a lot wrong with the Whitlam government but nevertheless, it was a very significant episode in our history and Margaret Whitlam was a very significant element in the political success of Gough Whitlam,” Mr Abbott said.

Nasty. To the core.

And let’s not forget the role he played in the jailing of Pauline Hanson. After One Nation shocked the Coalition by winning 11 seats in Queensland in June 1998, Abbott was determined to dig up every piece of dirt he could on Hanson. In his own words, on her demise he boasts this was:

“All my doing, for better or for worse. It has got Tony Abbott’s fingerprints on it and no-one else’s.”

His nastiness is contagious to the Liberal Party and many of its members and supporters have been affected under his leadership. It is a point that I and many others have expressed, but I do like what Dave Horton has to say in summary:

In effect all shock jocks and populist politicians are painting targets on people who do not share their views. In Australia the people who said the Prime Minister was a “witch” or a “cheap prostitute whoring herself” who should be “drowned in a sack” or “kicked to death” were inviting violence in a way that should not be permitted in a civilised society whether applied to the prime minister or the unfortunate woman who was the partner of Car Park Man.

Bullying, in home, school, workplace is rightly taken very seriously these days. And it is clearly recognised that verbal bullying can cause as much distress and psychological damage as physical actions.

Yet we facilitate, protect, applaud, the bullying and incitement to bullying that takes place every day in out media. Target after target of helpless and/or vulnerable groups (Aborigines, gays, single mothers, unemployed, refugees, public housing tenants, environmentalists, unions) are chosen day after day by bully boy and bully girl shock jocks and politicians. And day after day there are attempts by the same people to denigrate, delegitimise, degrade, political and philosophical opponents. Day after day words are twisted, lies told, rage consequently incited.

I could go on. History is filled with examples of how low this man is; of how nasty he is. And to the core. But I want you good people to have a say too. ;-)

I fear that we may not yet have seen the full extent of his nastiness. We might have to wait – God forbid – for the day he ever becomes Prime Minister.

It’ll be nasty for all of us. To our core.

               (Photo courtesy of news.com.au)

413 comments on “Tony Abbott: nasty to the core

  1. The charming Claytons Christian has had an empathy bypass in my books. I remember vividly the comments made about Bernie Banton as at the time a girlfriend had just lost her husband to that insidious disease. He is so self absorbed that he has never stopped to think about the suffering of others on any real human level. A bastard to the core.

  2. And of course sleeping it rough on the streets is nothing more than a lifestyle choice..some people like it that way, don’t they Tony. :evil:

  3. Obviously they choose all that fresh air and the mateship that goes with not having enough to eat and the excitement of being moved on from under the only shelter withing spitting distance of a public toilet that may be open. Of course they love it Min.

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  5. Migs, this meme is very old and tired.
    Politics is a ruthless game and you are critical of Tony Abbott because he is good at it???

    Forget all of the patronising hand wringing about Bernie Banton he uses his infirmity as a weapon to activate the guilt and compassion chips of the public in a clearly calculated way that does not make him into any sort of saint who can’t be criticised. Nor are the crocodile tears over Pauline Hanson credible I very clearly remember the delight form the minions of the left at every new travail that she was faced.
    As for what Abbott said about Margaret Whitlam what’s wrong with that? Your quote presents a respectful commentary form Abbott about the woman. What did you expect obsequious praise just because the woman was dead?
    Finally having had the sad experience of friend committing suicide I have absolutely no patience for the notion that those who self harm have to be treated with kid gloves and shown undue deference. I just hate the false deification to a sort of “noble victim-hood” that you minions of the left have for those who try to top themselves. There is nothing to praise or even respect for those who try to commit suicide and there is plenty of reasons to deride such acts of cowardice especially when its a politician we are talking about,

    Cue the usual suspects insisting that I am nasty too!

  6. Notice how these shock jock mongrels are ALL right wingers, if not outright Liberals.

    What is it about the Liberals that they need the boosting of all the media? Too useless to stand on their own nasty feet?

  7. Migs, absolutely, and the sad thing is the rabid right take their cues from the lying sack of s***t as just demonstrated by the resident troll.
    After TW’s great speech yesterday I saw another one comment that “well of course he would say that as he’s a Labour stooge.”
    They will happily defend Abbotts nastiness and dishonesty, but dismiss the truth and decency as irrelevant.
    What a sad and misguided lot. :sad:

    Cheers

  8. AN insight to Tony Abbott’s thinking emerged from the Coalition joint party-room on Tuesday where he told colleagues that of course Julia Gillard wanted to talk about boats because the carbon tax was “so toxic’‘.

    He’s lost some skin himself this week. Picture: Kym Smith

    and

    Others would go on to rub the Government’s nose in it in Parliament and Abbott himself would play a part but the Opposition Leader’s reluctance to dwell exclusively on his win was telling. It showed that his laser-like focus on an issue can sometimes look like inflexibility. But more importantly, it betrayed a grudging recognition that although he had dished out a fearful beating to Julia Gillard on boats, he’d foregone the knock-out punch.

    Her last roll-of-the-dice ploy of appointing Angus Houston, Michael L’Estrange, and Paris Aristotle to find a way forward, had actually worked. Their deftly political report picked its way through the policy maze saving enough face on both sides of the aisle by nodding politely to Abbott’s tow-backs and Gillard’s Malaysia. Yet they backed neither.

    For Gillard however, it was the things they did recommend that mattered. This gave her both a direction to move, and the objective authority to do so – the latter being crucial given her own party’s sensitivities. Abbott had won but he saw the report for the get-out-of-jail-free card that it was. In boxing terms, she had managed to get herself off the ropes.

    And by adopting the trio’s 22 recommendations, replete with re-opening of Manus Island and Nauru for detention and off-shore processing, she had also inveigled him to some extent. The deterrent power of the two-island nations would be strongly linked with him and thus span the party divide.

    Neither could he argue as clearly that Labor’s border security system was soft.

    In its new “no advantage’’ provision, ensuring a boat person cannot gain faster entry to Australia than would have been possible through the orderly UNHCR process, it is arguable that it is actually tougher than the Pacific solution.

    At the same meeting on Tuesday, Julie Bishop was in no hurry to move on so quickly from boats policy speaking of “the public humiliation of a government,’’ and the PM being the “person responsible for this shameless episode’’ which had seen a thousand drownings and 22,000 asylum seekers since Labor came to power.

    But by Wednesday’s Question Time a mere day later, the Coalition had swung fully back to carbon – eschewing any questions or point-scoring on boats. Ditto for Thursday.

    This is amazing given the heat of this issue and the sheer scale of Labor’s retreat – a retreat not yet fully appreciated even within the Government.

  9. Abbott seems to enjoy being nasty. He obviously has a big chip on his shoulder.

    You can imagine how an Abbott government would treat its critics. And those who don’t fit into its extreme religious and workplace ideological views.

    This is one nasty culture warrior. A divider of the worst kind.

    It would be like having a Tea Party evangelist as American president.
    N’

  10. We have heard the history of all the major political players in parliament , their carreers and stories EXCEPT …Tony Abbott..at least I haven’t!…Is it nature or nurture? What were his parents like, what was his childhood like in England? Does anybody have some info?

  11. Remember Reith, who advise bosses to move workers to a shelf company with no money to get around their responsibilities.

    Reith who assisted the boss to train strike breakers overseas. Who by the way, dumped these people when things did not go their way.

    Remember the dogs on the water front.

    The same boss, is today threatening to fully automate the waterfront, doing away with workers altogether.

    Before anyone screams, I also acknowledge that it was Labor that took the forces in on at least two occasions.

    Yes, it was Howard, that took the troops onto a boat. To do so this week, would have unnecessary raise the incident to a level it did not warrant.

    The UK is not doing too well with threatening the Ecuador with the police invading the embassy. They have made the matter worse.

    Brains is always better than brawn. Being able to negotiate is always the best option.

  12. ALMOST 11 years after the stand-off aboard the MV Tampa, another argument has erupted over a group of asylum seekers picked up by a merchant vessel, with the opposition saying the SAS should have been sent aboard and the asylum seekers charged with piracy offences.
    As Parliament passed legislation reintroducing the ”Pacific solution”, the opposition was berating the government for not taking a hard enough line against the 67 asylum seekers who were delivered to Christmas Island aboard the MV Parsifal.
    The ship’s company issued a statement rejecting the piracy claims, but did confirm the captain changed course for Christmas Island amid safety fears for his crew.
    ”The spokesman for the survivors asked where the Parsifal was headed and when told she was going to Singapore, the survivors became agitated and threatened self-harm,” the company said in a statement.

    Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/opinion/political-news/refugee-threat-deserved-sas-response–abbott-20120816-24bgj.html#ixzz23kn2ziwO

  13. Iain Hall
    It is readily apparent (at least to yours truly) that rusted-on conservatives find great difficulty in placing themselves in someone else’s shoes.

    This appears to have nothing to do with native intelligence, but looks to me to be some sort of failure in moral development.

    This is interesting in itself, because many prominent arch conservatives are also faux-Christians and would presumably imagine themselves as embracing the teachings of their loving Christ.

    “I just hate the false deification to a sort of “noble victim-hood” that you minions of the left have for those who try to top themselves”. Have you no compassion man?

  14. Tony Abbott good at politics? Not if you look at his achievements – he was not able to negotiate successfully with the independents – has not been able to obtain an early election – impact on the workings of government, minimal – inappropriate comments made overseas – inappropriate comments aimed at Indonesia and Malaysia – inappropriate comments at funerals.

  15. On 2GB with Steve Price last night: on the hypocrite Tony Windsor and his sliming on Tony Abbott. Not to mention the circus involving Julian Assange. Listen here.

    With Chris Smith on Julia Gillard missing the chance to do a Tampa, which suggests she’s not tough enough to make this latest boat people fix work. Listen here.

    http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/on_2gb_on_tony_windsor_assange_and_gillards_tampa_chance/

    This, I assume is the other universe. Have not bother to listen, as I am sure I could write it up, word for word, without doing so.

  16. I did listen. They could not even get the facts right. They said Windsor used a question on the carbon tax to reply.

    No, Mr. Windsor was making a reply to Mr. Abbott’s motion to standing orders for the PM to made apologise. Mr. Windsor, actually supported the motion for the debate. He did this, as he said he was proud of his actions in regard to the price on carbon emissions.

    I like my universe much better. It makes more sense and is honest.

  17. What a surprise that Iain Hall would go to *any* lengths to defend his beloved Abbott-not. Actually, politics does *not* have to be a “ruthless game”-though that you call it a “game” speaks volumes about Conservative Cheerleaders like yourself-& even if it were, Abbott goes far beyond mere “ruthlessness”. Using lies, innuendo & corrupt behaviour to bring down his political rivals, denigrating the sick & the poor to boost his own ego, engaging in deliberately misogynistic, racist & homophobic behaviour to advance his own position is *not* evidence that he’s good at politics-it merely proves that he’s a complete sociopath who needs psychological help, not the top job in our Country!

  18. But Kerry said it didnt. So maybe I am just have implanted memories ReKall style?

    The bulk of the media are obviously in on this. If you look in the paper, it appears very little happened in parliament yesterday. Tony Wright does an admirable piece despite closing with a comment about how Tony Windsor is an old National man gone feral. Piers Ackerman and Andrew Bolt seem to have missed it and are still writing about last decade. Gabrielle Chan went through the details, but focused on the return of the phrase ‘pig’s arse’.

    http://ashghebranious.wordpress.com/2012/08/17/i-must-have-been-abducted-by-aliens/#comments

  19. With NO..NO explicit policy briefings yet from the Abbott opposition, there has to be only ONE reason anybody would support Abbott for top job at this time and that is believing he will enact some vague sort of violent revenge upon ones’ detractors!
    Will the REAL lain Hall please stump up?

  20. Remember Reith, who advise bosses to move workers to a shelf company with no money to get around their responsibilities.

    Reith who assisted the boss to train strike breakers overseas. Who by the way, dumped these people when things did not go their way.

    Remember the dogs on the water front.
    —————–

    CU,
    and what an obvious performance by Abbott and Reith when it came to the vote for Presidency. Another tactic to try and make Abbott look distant from Reith’s bullying tactics of the past.

    This SAS stuff has shown Abbott for the true BSer and lover of Peter Reith and John Howard bully boy tactics that he is.

    The real Abbott revealed.

    N’

  21. Trev,

    It is readily apparent (at least to yours truly) that rusted-on conservatives find great difficulty in placing themselves in someone else’s shoes.

    This appears to have nothing to do with native intelligence, but looks to me to be some sort of failure in moral development.

    But they do specialise at doing the opposite – that being to project their own behaviour/motivations onto their opponents. Accusing others of what they do themselves. A deliberate political tactic I’ve dubbed Right-Wing Projection.

  22. Nas’, ah the irony..little Johnny thought that Abbott was an incompetant and was only ever part of his B Team. I’m certain that Howard sneers at the very thought of Abbott naming Howard as his mentor. I have said this before, I intensely dislike JWH but at least Howard maintained some standards and would never ever have been photographed in front of a sign saying Bob Brown’s b*tch.

  23. Cuppa
    Quite right Cuppa. The enormous capacity to hate and an “I’m always right” mentality are also characteristic of the type.

  24. toxic tony is not having a good week only 60 plus more to go before he sinks into his own black hole, may the force be with us

  25. I used to think that Abbott modelled himself on Howard, but as you point out, for all his nasty policies, Howard placed a high value on at least appearing to be nice. I now think that Abbott models himself on George W Bush, who was also nasty to the core. Abbott probably figures that Bush’s personality served him politically. Personal nastiness fits right into the right-wing framework, where niceness is treated as a political weakness, and passed off as “political correctness.”

  26. TONY Abbott’s paid parental leave would ultimatly affect more companies than the carbon tax, writes Samantha Maiden.

    ————————————————–

    HERE’S a surprising fact about Tony Abbott’s paid parental leave plan that hasn’t attracted much attention: the new levy to pay for the scheme would hit more companies than the carbon tax.

    Surprised? Consider the numbers. Julia Gillard’s carbon tax will be imposed on about 500 of the nation’s biggest polluters.

    Abbott’s tax levy would hit an estimated 3300 businesses with a 1.5 per cent levy.

    Isn’t that a great, big, new tax coincidence, to deploy Abbott’s favourite mantra ?

    Let’s set to one side the world-class hypocrisy of Labor turning up its nose at the politics of “class welfare” on the schools funding debate while simultaneously diving in to slag off what it calls Abbott’s “Richie Rich” program for cashed-up working mums.

    Much of the criticism of Abbott’s scheme is indeed centred on that generosity to a handful of wealthy women.

    It would offer women a full replacement wage for six months funded by taxpayers, up to an eye-watering $75,000 for women earning $150,000 a year.

    But even Labor concedes fewer than 500 women would gain access to the scheme that would not under their existing means-tested parental leave scheme paid at 18 weeks at the minimum wage.

    Less attention, however, has been paid to the size of the Abbott scheme and the potential cost impacts for consumers.

    Would a 1.5 per cent paid parental leave tax on electricity generators, for example, drive up power bills? By how much? Would Woolworths and Coles increase the price of milk and bread?

    Is it possible that some low-emission, high-profit companies such as banks and retailers could actually pay more upfront under Abbott’s parental leave plan than the carbon tax? Wouldn’t that be hoot.

    If the Coalition argues the cost impact would be modest, how does that stack up with their claims the carbon tax will be catastrophic?

    And what happens if Abbott is elected prime minister but a hostile Senate dominated by the Greens will not allow him to wind back the carbon tax?

    Would companies be forced to pay both the $5 billion carbon tax and the $3 billion paid parental leave levy? So many questions.

    According to the last mid-year budget update, the carbon tax will raise $25 billion over three years, including an estimated $7.6 billion over the first year.

    That’s substantially more than Abbott’s $3 billion paid parental leave scheme, but bear in mind there’s no compensation to cover cost-of-living impacts. The carbon tax by comparison will raise a lot of cash but it will also distribute $5 billion in tax cuts and welfare payments as compensation.

    As the Coalition policy documents show, it would cost taxpayers a whopping $4.5 billion a year to run Abbott’s parental leave scheme.

    It would be paid for by a 1.5 per cent levy on businesses with taxable incomes over $5 million.

    There are also savings from rolling in the baby bonus scheme and family tax payments and replacing Labor’s scheme.

    http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/ipad/maiden-tonys-great-big-tax/story-fn6br25t-1226295921746

  27. Might make for an interesting competition.

    A cartoon Tony Abbott figure knocking on the Pearly Gates (decency would demand that he would be very old of course!) What would St. Peter be saying?

  28. Silky, he’s a mixture of GWB’s bubble-headed boobiness and Dick Cheney’s skill of always being able to find new levels of terror.

  29. Trev, I hope that Abbott lives to be 175. And for every day of those long years his guts churn in anger at never getting the keys to The Lodge.

  30. Iain, the reason this meme is very old and tired is because Abbott has been allowed to get away with his brain farts from the moment he joined the Liberal Party.

    Don’t you agree?

  31. Hi Pia. Yes, we could write a song about him. ;-)

    Some older songs come to mind too:

    Fool, Fool Fool.
    Devil in Disguise.
    I put a spell on you.
    A Fool such as I.
    Jezebel.

  32. @10:37, Migs

    John Howard was a mean-spirited, nasty piece of work, but in comparison to Tony Abbott he [b]appears[/b] as kind, caring and compassionate as Mother Teresa.

    reckon they’re pretty much “birds of a feather”, just that the rodent knew it couldn’t carry off the “bully” role, and so relied on cunning, and an unctuous air, while engaging in projection of its own foul morality onto any criticism/critics, more than attempted standover tactics.

    abbott doesn’t the “skills” of his mentor and attempts to compensate through the sorts of behaviour noted, in his futile lust for the “prize”.

    that he doesn’t have a clue is obvious through his lack of credible policies and leads me to the conclusion that he he has decided to be nastiertougher than the rodent, thus demonstrating his assumed “right to rule” to his mates on the extremist right.

    if anything though, i feel this makes him more dangerous than howard, who did incalculable damage to our society. tones and his mob of haters will only do worse as can be clearly seen through the actions of their ideological mates running ruining the eastern states

  33. Trev @ 9:13 am

    Iain Hall
    It is readily apparent (at least to yours truly) that rusted-on conservatives find great difficulty in placing themselves in someone else’s shoes.

    Not so in my Case Trev, in fact I’m very good at it if I try.

    This appears to have nothing to do with native intelligence, but looks to me to be some sort of failure in moral development.

    Are you suggesting that you doubt That I am a moral person?

    This is interesting in itself, because many prominent arch conservatives are also faux-Christians and would presumably imagine themselves as embracing the teachings of their loving Christ.

    Well I’m an atheist and I have been one all my life.

    “I just hate the false deification to a sort of “noble victim-hood” that you minions of the left have for those who try to top themselves”. Have you no compassion man?

    Sure but I have to ask have you ever had any enduring contact with the disabled or the terminally ill? Have you so little self awareness that you don’t appreciate the way that such people are often able to make a virtue out of their adversity if they seek a particular political outcome?

    Marcus 9:29 am

    What a surprise that Iain Hall would go to *any* lengths to defend his beloved Abbott-not.

    Espousing a contrary opinion to the group-think here is hardly going to “any lengths” by any measure that matters.

    Actually, politics does *not* have to be a “ruthless game”-though that you call it a “game” speaks volumes about Conservative Cheerleaders like yourself-& even if it were, Abbott goes far beyond mere “ruthlessness”.

    Hmm I think that you could benefit form reading a bit of game theory Marcus.

    Using lies, innuendo & corrupt behaviour to bring down his political rivals, denigrating the sick & the poor to boost his own ego, engaging in deliberately misogynistic, racist & homophobic behaviour to advance his own position is *not* evidence that he’s good at politics-it merely proves that he’s a complete sociopath who needs psychological help, not the top job in our Country!

    Really Marcus that is just an empty and hollow Ad Hominim none of which stands up to sustained scrutiny outside of Planet Latte
    Miglo @ 10:41 am

    Iain, the reason this meme is very old and tired is because Abbott has been allowed to get away with his brain farts from the moment he joined the Liberal Party.

    Don’t you agree?

    Naturally enough I don’t agree because Abbott’s many critics like your own good self have been drumming out the same message ever since he got the Liberal party’s big chair. What I do think is that you and your pals are all just getting rather frustrated that the rest of the country don’t see the man the way that that you do, further they look set to deliver government to him at the next election much to your chagrin.

  34. pterosaur1 @ 11:19 am

    Howard got others to do his dirty work and to take the fall. Always did.

    Howard was always big on saying, “I take full responsibility”, but he never did. Whenever the shit hit the fan, things went south economic wise or he was found out in a malfeasance or lie it was always someone else’s fault. Even when everything pointed back to the Office of the PM, it was laid on some staffer.

    And wasn’t it telling that those who the blame fell on were never really punished but were rewarded in some way, even when sacked they were given better jobs at a higher pay elsewhere. I recall Howard denying all knowledge on something damning and a staffer taking the blame for apparently not informing Howard. Shortly afterwards the staffer was promoted instead of being sacked as he should have been.

    That was the norm for Howard’s reign. He would say he took all responsibility but never took any.

  35. ever noticed how TA always likes to win? Especially when he is filmed with any children? He always beats any child in a race, he always catches the ball above their heads. Talk about win at all cost.

  36. Iain @11.49am
    “Sure but I have to ask have you ever had any enduring contact with the disabled or the terminally ill? Have you so little self awareness that you don’t appreciate the way that such people are often able to make a virtue out of their adversity if they seek a particular political outcome?”

    Your comment saddens me Iain. The answer to your question is “yes” I live with the situation you describe; the difference being that there is no advantage sought, she prefers not to focus on the circumstances she finds herself in.

    “Are you suggesting that you doubt That I am a moral person?” That rather depends upon how you define the term “moral” Iain. I am also an atheist, but I none-the-less still define morality in terms of concern for the welfare of others. I take your comments to suggest that this is something you don’t always take into account.

  37. it always annoyed me, that when one of his claims or schemes started to come undone, upon challenge, the rodent would merely state “i refute that ……”, without any accompanying actual refutation of the claim, and yet the corruptclueless msm invariably treated his statement as fact, even in the face of evidence to the contrary

  38. Yep, people have short memories indeed, Tony Windsor reminding people of the truth and Abbott’s lies are drowned in a flaccid media who like “the shire” create their own version of reality. Does anyone remember Howard was one of Australia’s worst treasurers?
    Paul, Trev!!! why you give that neocon parrot oxygen is beyond me.

  39. Ricky
    AUGUST 17th 2012 @ 12.32pm

    Thanks Ricky, you’re quite right of course, we’re probably just wasting our time. It’s a bit like the AGW “debate” though; you keep hoping that if you persist in exposing the denialist nonsense that some semblance of rationality may filter through.

    I wouldn’t hold my breath on that score though.

  40. living to 175… yeah. Let him drown in his hate for a century without ever being able to use it and watch it eat him from the inside. Thats idea is just plain Abbottesque Miglo. Howard got to take his revenge out on us for his youth, but its looking like perhaps Abbott won’t get the chance.

  41. No, Iain, it’s not ad hominem to point to the fact that Abbott’s behaviour meets *all* the criteria for being a sociopath-though I note the hypocrisy of you using an ad hominem against anyone who even makes such claims (latte land? Really, Iain? If you want to talk about tired old memes, then you need go no further than that. Why don’t you throw in a bit of chardonnay for good measure?) That’s the problem with Abbott’s cheer leaders-like Iain & Scaper-is that they lack sufficient intelligence to come up with any new ad hominems-or even come up with any evidence to back the ones they’re already using (to this day, I’ve yet to meet anyone in my social circle who drinks either chardonnay or latte).

  42. Yeah you keep on dreaming there, Scaper. Slowly but surely the press, & the public, are waking up to what a lying, low piece of filth Abbott actually is…..and then it’s just a matter of time before that flows on through to the party he leads!

  43. btw, I have to ask again-if scaper & Iain are so pro-Abbott, then why in the HELL do they keep coming here to troll this site with their ignorant & poorly constructed arguments?

  44. Tony Abbott wouldn’t sell his arse, he’d sell ours instead.
    Windsor summed up Abbott’s policy positions over the last few years on Climate Change.
    “Climate change is crap,” Abbott says. Meanwhile his policy has a hideously expensive plan to supposedly address it.
    A Carbon Price is the wrong way to address the issue Abbott states. Not that long ago however, he told a TV programme the best method to address the issue would be a “Carbon Tax”.
    Abbott tells us the government’s Carbon Price will hurt families, yet, Windsor says, Abbott has the “audacity” to offer as an alternative, a vastly more expensive policy, that punishes families and pays polluters. Not only that, his Direct Action policy has more holes in it than Alexander Downer’s fish net stockings.

    http://thehoopla.com.au/christmas/?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=August+17+The+Hoopla&utm_content=August+17+The+Hoopla+CID_23546ec255c77dbf71cf8ec5b2fe9c60&utm_source=Email+marketing+software&utm_term=TONY+WINDSOR+YOU+DA+MAN

  45. btw, I have to ask again-if scaper & Iain are so pro-Abbott, then why in the HELL do they keep coming here to troll this site with their ignorant & poorly constructed arguments?

    My theory is that RWFs are sort of propaganda totalitarians. They can’t stand that places such as the Cafe exist outside of and defiant to the one-party Liberal lockstep of the so-called “mainstream” media. So, even though they look ridiculous they swallow their embarrassment and keep coming back, every day mind you, to try to “convert” us to ‘orthodox’ thinking.

    No one shall be allowed to escape the brainwashing.

    You saw the same sort of mindset at work with the Howard Liberals in regards to the (old) ABC. They couldn’t tolerate the existence of an independent, politically-neutral public broadcasting entity – so they set about systematically stacking it with dependable right wing suckholes. The result is what we see today, this disgrace on our democracy: a compromised organisation that sings the same partisan tune as the commercial media, and Charter, bedamned.

    As I suggest, it’s a sort of totalitarianism where dissent and even simple independence must be countered.

  46. Saw this with the ABC interview where for the first time Abbott was pulled up on a direct lie, one that had been pointed out to him elsewhere yet he kept repeating, and even after side stepping it on the ABC went on to repeat the lie a short time later elsewhere.

    Yet the comments were full of attacks against the ABC for being a pinko communist left wing biased in the pocket of the Labor Party organisation.

    For what? Pointing out a blatant lie Abbott had been pulled up on before but keeps repeating and getting away with.

    And the wingnuts call other delusional.

    How dare anyone, any media organisation, any reporter, any blog/forum or any individual point out Abbott’s lies.

    Hypocrites.

  47. I wonder which will win – ridicule or hate? In the short term, hate has the lead but I see ridicule catching up fast.

  48. One can see on here and other blogs where the right-wing succubus’ try to infiltrate, their eyes becoming narrower and narrower as they fail to impress with their low wit and inadequate intelligence…..when they are defeated in language and logic, they slink off to their dens and scheme…….like Tabbott is doing right now! I suspect Peta credlin is there just to keep a tight grip on the halter-rope and steer him in a cognative direction!

  49. I never begged to be PM: Tony Abbott

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/i-never-begged-to-be-pm-tony-abbott/story-fn59niix-1226452371700

    Abbott is a liar. He has been begging every waking hour since the last election. All we hear, is he was robbed, demanding everyday, a new election.

    He has done everything in his power, with no success to bring down this government.

    if that is not begging, I do not know what it is.

    Mr. Abbott made the mistake of believing this government would fall at the first hurdle.

  50. Dennis Atkins wrote in the Courier Mail this week about Abbott’s “relentless negative assault on the price impacts of the carbon tax”, describing that, and his campaign to “brand Julia Gillard as an untrustworthy liar”, as “the most reckless and audacious politicking most observers, including this one, can remember.”

    Atkins wrote:

    The Liberal leader is taking the demeaning tactic of not caring what he says to new depths.
    Now Mark Latham has taken up the same issue in the Financial Review, writing that:

    In 35 years studying Australian politics, I have never seen a political leader so vulnerable to criticism yet treated so lightly by the media.
    Perhaps the Canberra press gallery has become so accustomed to finding fault in Julia Gillard it has forgotten how to hold her opposite number to account.
    Latham pointed to Abbott’s claim that the carbon tax would be “a wrecking ball through the economy”; data since then has demonstrated employment is holding up and the economy is still growing strongly.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-08-17/cassidy-a-rare-challenge-for-abbott/4203120

  51. That’s what I was talking about Cu.

    Abbott lies over something but is not pulled up. Is finally pulled up over it, acknowledges the lie by no longer repeating it and moving on and then in another foru a short time later repeats the blatant lie.

    Yet the hypocrites in a crude display of projection call Gillard a liar over just one thing said before an election campaign, where circumstances changed after the election campaign, and two right wing media outlets said she hadn’t lied on the matter, and to top of it off Abbott when pulled up on a back flip after the election said “circumstances change”.

    Unbelievable feckin’ hypocrites.

  52. Nah, that was not a lie…a broken promise at best and no politician of any colour does that, do they? Got run off a right wing site for pointing that one out.

  53. Marcus@ 2:07 pm

    No, Iain, it’s not ad hominem to point to the fact that Abbott’s behaviour meets *all* the criteria for being a sociopath-

    I’m sure that you believe this, however that does not make it so,

    though I note the hypocrisy of you using an ad hominem against anyone who even makes such claims (latte land? Really, Iain?
    If you want to talk about tired old memes, then you need go no further than that. Why don’t you throw in a bit of chardonnay for good measure?)

    Oh is that smell of burning Lefty I detect? Your problem is that unlike you I use such epithets with affection and a certain amount of wry sarcasm.

    That’s the problem with Abbott’s cheer leaders-like Iain & Scaper-is that they lack sufficient intelligence to come up with any new ad hominems-or even come up with any evidence to back the ones they’re already using (to this day, I’ve yet to meet anyone in my social circle who drinks either chardonnay or latte).

    You don’t have to actaully drink lattes to be a “latte sipper” Marcus I could have also suggested that you are probably a “silvertail socialist” you know a lefty who comes form the rich end of town but has pretensions of being a “hero of the people


    Marcus 2:09 pm

    Yeah you keep on dreaming there, Scaper. Slowly but surely the press, & the public, are waking up to what a lying, low piece of filth Abbott actually is…..and then it’s just a matter of time before that flows on through to the party he leads!

    Yeah right Marcus that would explain why teh government’s polling is in the toilet all the time now wouldn’t it?
    Marcus @ 2:10 pm

    btw, I have to ask again-if scaper & Iain are so pro-Abbott, then why in the HELL do they keep coming here to troll this site with their ignorant & poorly constructed arguments?

    Well I would ask you a different question Marcus why are YOU here talking to the like minded rather than doing some good for your side by trying to convince those who are now unwilling to vote for Gillard( Like scraper and I) that they are wrong? You see there is nothing to it to sing your song when you know that everyone in earshot will sing along…

    Möbius Ecko @ 2:19 pm

    Iain believes he can show us the light but that’s impossible when he’s in the dark and being fed on shit.

    I’d invite you into the light Möbius Ecko but there’s not Mushroom in here….
    Cuppa @ 2:26 pm

    My theory is that RWFs are sort of propaganda totalitarians. They can’t stand that places such as the Cafe exist outside of and defiant to the one-party Liberal lockstep of the so-called “mainstream” media. So, even though they look ridiculous they swallow their embarrassment and keep coming back, every day mind you, to try to “convert” us to ‘orthodox’ thinking.

    I love this site enough to have added it to my illustrated blog-roll You may think that you are so clever classless and free but I don’t think that you realise just how much you are in lockstep with “lefty groupthink”

    No one shall be allowed to escape the brainwashing.

    Says one who expresses utter disgust taht anyone should dare to think differently to them

    You saw the same sort of mindset at work with the Howard Liberals in regards to the (old) ABC. They couldn’t tolerate the existence of an independent, politically-neutral public broadcasting entity – so they set about systematically stacking it with dependable right wing suckholes.

    I’ve been a fan of the ABC for as long as I’ve been sentient and those on the left who want to suggest that Howard succeeded in making it a beast of the right just because he tried to make it more balanced obviously don’t listen to its radio, watch its TV or read its internet offerings

    The result is what we see today, this disgrace on our democracy: a compromised organisation that sings the same partisan tune as the commercial media, and Charter, bedamned.

    The ABC culture always has been and remains left of centre and I challenge you to prove otherwise.

    As I suggest, it’s a sort of totalitarianism where dissent and even simple independence must be countered.

    From someone who complains about the dissenting voices (like mine) even being heard here there is more than a touch of irony in you making this claim.

    jaycee @ 2:49 pm

    One can see on here and other blogs where the right-wing succubus’ try to infiltrate, their eyes becoming narrower and narrower as they fail to impress with their low wit and inadequate intelligence….

    Do you even know what a succubus Is “Jaycee”? I somehow doubt it, the same as I am sure that you don’t understand the meaning of “infiltrate” and how inappropriate it is in the context of an open forum where there is no need for concelement of subterfuge for a conservative to comment here.

    .when they are defeated in language and logic, they slink off to their dens and scheme…….like Tabbott is doing right now! I suspect Peta credlin is there just to keep a tight grip on the halter-rope and steer him in a cognative direction!

    So much wrong with that sentence that “incomprehensible” falls short in describing it.

  54. I have just about turned off from what he is saying as it is becoming very nauseating and incomprehensible.

  55. I like the way lain Hall lines up all his perceived detractors and then heaves his semi-automatic vocabulary up to “mow them all down”…..but he’s shooting blanks and he doesn’t even know it!…….you know why these right-wing trolls grvitate to these sites?.. because they realise the right-wing blogs are so full of dead-heads, they like to try their “bait” out for to catch some “big fish”!…..But lain, no luck”mate”…it’s the way you hold your ..rod!
    And : succubus….you just know you are!

  56. ‘succubi were generally depicted as frightening and demonic’ I wonder if Iain was describing someone that is his idol

  57. I wish I could be as nasty about Tony Abbott as he is about other people, and particularly our great PM. But it’s demeaning, isn’t it, stooping to his level? Meantime I’ve dredged this up from Cafe Whispers archives, way back. Can you fix the link for me, Migs?.

    I Do Not Trust Abbott! Never Can!

    I could not, ever, trust this louse.
    I would not want him in the House.
    I’d rather see him in a box
    Or ridiculed in public stocks.
    Yes, there he could his budgies wear
    And everyone could come and stare
    As we all threw bad eggs and jam
    At phony Tony, fork tongued sham.

  58. I no longer name the trolls, as even naming them, in their minds legitimises their nonsensical comments, so it all just becomes right wing BLAH BLAH BLAH :lol:
    :evil: :lol:
    Scroll the trolls.

    Cheers

  59. Why don’t the troll’s go over to his site and have a debate over there on the issues of Conservative policies, one would think it would be a short debate.

  60. “Well I would ask you a different question Marcus why are YOU here talking to the like minded rather than doing some good for your side by trying to convince those who are now unwilling to vote for Gillard( Like scraper and I) that t”

    Probably because most here do not believe they have the right to push their views down the throats of others. Maybe because many here are capable of respecting the views that others hold.

    Maybe, we are happy to wait for people who want to seek out our views will find us.

    Maybe we are not political zealots like some.

  61. scaper, what is there to debate. Do we have to rebate his allegations that we are all wrong.

    Debate the same argument over and over and over.

    scaper, do we have to debate what you and your like put forwarded. Sorry, the topic does not interest me.

  62. I tried it. I even stuck to it through all the insults and truly mind numbing drivel, wading through post after post of hate and falsehoods. Chewing sand is more satisfying. Their skulls seem impenetrable and when you finally meet a lib who is willing to debate, the conversation is drowned out by an admin or the others on the site. I was told the same thing – go talk to your lefty mates and leave us alone…

  63. BMac..excellent choice. There is only so many times one can bash one’s head up against a brick wall, provide factually evidence resplendent with links only to have the whole thing “forgotten” a matter of days later..if that long..

  64. Unfortunately, the Liberal Party in Australia now equates with human filth. They stand for nothing except a sick and deluded “born to rule” mentality.

  65. scaper… . What’s to debate with him…he opens his commentry with pathetic aggro and then he is mortified when derided..he LOVES it!….and you, scaper… . what is your excuse? you want to debate?..here’s a topic..: What does Tony Abbott hope to achieve by gaining govt’?….a) Full employment. b) stable and secure health/education/social services? or c) Fascism?

  66. No takers then.

    Min, nice bit of late afternoon ganda leading into a Newspoll weekend. Do you really believe that the Libs would cut education?

    Just part of the circus to entertain us common folk.

  67. There the same where I live, they say JG is the worst PM an TA would do a better job, I ask how, they say “because he just would.” when you press on and ask on why, the same answer, when you ask on his policies, there just better, then you ask how are they better, same answer, “they just are.” I am positive they do not know what there policies are. As u say Min it is like talking to a brick wall, sometimes I think a brick wall would be better talking to.

  68. To the troll who can’t challenge the argument and resort to BLAH BLAH BLAH, why change the habits of a lifetime now?

    BLAH BLAH BLAH :lol:

  69. Mr Garrett used question time to ridicule the suggestion that teacher quality could be improved by sacking staff.

    Opposition education spokesman Christopher Pyne told the Australian Financial Review, in an interview published on Saturday, that principals should have the power to dismiss underperforming teachers.

    “In every staff room, five to 15 per cent of the teachers are not up to scratch,” Mr Pyne told the newspaper.

    “This is unacceptable. What we need is for underperforming teachers to be managed out of the system.”

    Mr Garrett told parliament on Wednesday that Mr Pyne’s office had later said the figure of 15 per cent was based on anecdotal evidence from principals.

    “So we have an arbitrary figure based on anecdotal evidence and conversations that the member for Sturt has had as evidence to sack 40,000 teachers around Australia,” the minister

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/breaking-news/garrett-ridicules-plan-to-sack-teachers/story-fn3dxiwe-1226451169469

    Especially when all we have heard fro, Pyne, that it has been waste of money, lowering class sizes.

  70. Steven, and might I add ‘born to fool’ alongside ‘born to rule’?

    And in Abbott’s case – ‘born a tool’. :)

  71. Great coordination from the Liberals. Abbott argued a couple of years ago that we should have more babies and now Pyne wants to sack teachers.

    Does anybody else see the stupidity in this?

  72. C’mon, scaper… . I gave you a debate…you don’t have to “create” discussion, we know right-wingers can’t create anthying except utter bullshit!…Just quote your heros’ policies on the topics…..Oh!..what’s that?…I-CAN”T-HEEEEAR-YOU!..What you say?

  73. Scaper and would I personally believe that the Libs would cut education. Well why would they say that they’re going to..it’s not as if that policy would in any way, shape or form be popular…

  74. …and there is a shortage of teachers that is getting worse as the average age for teachers in Australia increases and there is a lower take up of the profession because of idiots like Pyne.

    I reckon about 50% of the politicians in the Federal and State governments are under performing and getting rid of the Federal opposition and the State Liberal politicians will immediately fix that problem.

  75. Scaper, have you ever tried debating Iain? It’s not easy.

    There’s an interesting challenge for you scaper. Take on an alter-ego (OK, call it a sock puppet if you must) and play devil’s advocate to debate Iain. Could be entertaining if nothing else, and I’m sure you’ll quickly come to see how tiresome he really is…

  76. Min, if they cut education then they will get fried!

    My main concern when they get in will be arrogance but to cut funding on education would be war.

    It will be somewhat different this time around…the swingers and the base will have the opportunity to park over at the KAP. They will have one in the Senate after the next election. Doubt the swingers will head back to Labor for awhile so the Libs had better be on their toes or they will be rolled.

  77. I can see the “ellipses” lead to a vacancy of thought and the title ;”scaper” is meant to have an “r” before the first vowel!

  78. Pyne’s tactic is to blame the teachers. This was mooted previously when the Libs rejected the Gonski Report which recommended equalising of funding for schools so that every child would have the basics in resources. Therefore the tactic is to blame the teachers instead of the inequity in resources.

  79. Min. according to Pyne, all experts are wrong. There is no inequity. Just parents who let their kids down.

  80. No, save it, Min..an enigma has to have a greater attraction than a smell to even make it worth an effort for a guess.

  81. I once worked with a bloke whose name was “White”….and to every new starter he’d open on a subject with ; “We white people…” and then go on to construct his story around his name. One day after trying this old chestnut on a new bloke, the new bloke listened and then said..; “that’s a good joke..but it’s obviously your only joke..keep working on it..it’s the best you’ll ever have”.
    Sorry, scaper… three dots, however un-perplexing are not even amusing, they are an ellipsis.

  82. Not only is Abbott nasty but he has a glass jaw.

    And it is on display every day.

    And his minders are so sensitive to this weakness that at press conferences there is always a minder to throw in a dorothy dixer and of course that is the cue to walk off now.

  83. They want to cut education because the idea of people being trained for themselves scares them witless… ok, shitless.

  84. paulwello @ 4:16 pm

    I have just about turned off from what he is saying as it is becoming very nauseating and incomprehensible.

    I’ll take that as an admission that you are not up to the task of debating someone who is hard to convince then Paul

    jaycee @ 4:17 pm

    And : succubus….you just know you are!

    The reason that I have been mocking you using this term is because of the supernatural creatures and daemons that you could have chosen for your insult a succubus is one of the few that is actaully restricted to the female gender Now as you must be aware I am not female. So unless you think calling someone female is an insult then you use of succubus in reference to either Scaper or I is a stupendous own goal

    scaper… @ 4:19 pm

    Oh FFS, get off Iain’s back and debate him instead.

    Thanks for that Scaper but I suspect that many here are just not up to the task.

    paulwello @ 4:33 pm

    Why don’t the troll’s go over to his site and have a debate over there on the issues of Conservative policies, one would think it would be a short debate.

    I’ll give you credit for trying at mine Paul but you don;t have much endurance do you? you try commenting on the non political topics where we might have more common ground and I would have no trouble perhaps agreeing with you or at least going easy, heck I even posted a piece the other day praising something that this government has done what more could you ask for?


    Miglo@ 4:46 pm

    Scaper, have you ever tried debating Iain? It’s not easy.

    Thanks Migs I’ll take that as a compliment!

    Catching up @ 4:51 pm

    Probably because most here do not believe they have the right to push their views down the throats of others. Maybe because many here are capable of respecting the views that others hold.

    With respect that is a crap argument coming form someone who is so vexed by the prospect of an Abbott government.If you truly want to make that almost sure thing less sure then it is those who have given up on Gillard that you have to reach rather than those who , like you, still keep the faith.

    Maybe, we are happy to wait for people who want to seek out our views will find us.

    Maybe we are not political zealots like some.

    There is only one thing that I’m a zealous about and that is a good argument ;)
    Catching up 4:57 pm

    scaper, what is there to debate. Do we have to rebate (refute) his allegations (arguments) that we are all wrong.

    Don’t Give up CU you do make up in spirit what you lake in substance most of the time.

    BMac August 17, 2012

    I tried it. I even stuck to it through all the insults and truly mind numbing drivel, wading through post after post of hate and falsehoods. Chewing sand is more satisfying. Their skulls seem impenetrable and when you finally meet a lib who is willing to debate, the conversation is drowned out by an admin or the others on the site. I was told the same thing – go talk to your lefty mates and leave us alone…

    Well try mine out and you will fine admin that respects anyone who can play nice and posts that have light and shade :grin:
    Oh yeah and I I even have a Labor supporter wring for the blog as well :evil:

    Min @ 5:05 pm

    BMac..excellent choice. There is only so many times one can bash one’s head up against a brick wall, provide factually evidence resplendent with links only to have the whole thing “forgotten” a matter of days later..if that long..

    Yeah min but how do you know taht if you just head butted those bricks for just a tiny bit longer that you might just make a breakthrough???

    jaycee @ 5:25 pm

    scaper… . What’s to debate with him…he opens his commentary with pathetic aggro and then he is mortified when derided..

    Coming form you this is hilarious! especially after you came to my place shouting insults and aggression in your fist comments!

    he LOVES it!…

    You got something right there!

    .and you, scaper… . what is your excuse? you want to debate?..here’s a topic..: What does Tony Abbott hope to achieve by gaining govt’?….a) Full employment. b) stable and secure health/education/social services? or c) Fascism?
    scaper…

    Well why don’t you try to write something substantive your self????


    paulwello @ 5:30 pm

    There the same where I live, they say JG is the worst PM an TA would do a better job, I ask how, they say “because he just would.” when you press on and ask on why, the same answer, when you ask on his policies, there just better, then you ask how are they better, same answer, “they just are.” I am positive they do not know what there policies are. As u say Min it is like talking to a brick wall, sometimes I think a brick wall would be better talking to.

    Actually Paul your anecdote proves one simple thing and that is the simple fact that the ordinary people have totally turned off Julia Gillard secondly It also proves that the obsession with “policy” that most of the anti Abbott crew have is not shared by the voters.


    Bacchus @ 5:57 pm


    Scaper, have you ever tried debating Iain? It’s not easy.

    There’s an interesting challenge for you scaper. Take on an alter-ego (OK, call it a sock puppet if you must) and play devil’s advocate to debate Iain. Could be entertaining if nothing else, and I’m sure you’ll quickly come to see how tiresome he really is…

    I expect that scaper would make a better show of it than you can Bacchus ;)
    scaper… @ 6:07 pm

    It will be somewhat different this time around…the swingers and the base will have the opportunity to park over at the KAP. They will have one in the Senate after the next election. Doubt the swingers will head back to Labor for awhile so the Libs had better be on their toes or they will be rolled.

    I don’t know about the KAP’s prospects for the senate at the next election because I tend to think that there will be a solid swing back to the major parties after the result at the last election and the hung parliament. The poeple just don’t like the tail wagging the dog.

  85. “I’ll take that as an admission that you are not up to the task of debating someone who is hard to convince then Paul”

    No Iain I just don’t like debating Idiots. :razz:

  86. Gillard gets up off the mat
    (my bold)

    “If Gillard can indeed improve her position, as the opinion polls are just starting to suggest she may be able to, he will be unable to continue the all-negative campaign on which he has relied until now. It has worked brilliantly, but two of his main targets – asylum seekers and the carbon tax – have been taken away. He will have to concentrate for the final year on sketching out a positive alternative to Labor.”

    Lol, hahahaha. Abbott being positive!

    He promised it before and it didn’t last a day. Just like with everything else he lied. He always lies and does it so much that a single misstatement by anyone else is considered damning but for him lying and exaggeration is considered normal and acceptable.

    Also says a lot about his supporters that they not only condone his constant lying but make excuses for it and expound on it, making them as bad as Abbott.

    Abbott positive. ROFL.

  87. Paul, all the trolls should get together in the sand pit for the type of debate that they are really good at… a mass…turbate

  88. According to a couple of visitors, we are suppose to continually debate that we are latte drinkers and our stupidity in pointing out the good work our PM has achieved.

    We are suppose to hear the message being put, everyday, by the way, that out wellbeing lies with the idiot.

    I would rather talk about what is occurring around me, yes in my parallel universe, that the one that is struck in their imagination.

    What a boring prospect.

  89. Morrison lies all the time, but that is not surprising in this opposition, but his claim that Malaysia would never be implemented, that was picked up by some right wing media commentators, is utter bullshit. (my bold)

    Some commentators claimed the recommendations in favour of regional processing had been included in the report to give ”cover” to Labor and one of the experts, the refugee advocate Paris Aristotle, even though the other two experts privately understood there was no chance regional processing could ever be implemented.
    Advertisement

    But all three experts insist their recommendation for processing in Malaysia and other regional centres is the most important in their report and, if it is ignored or sidelined, their package of measures won’t work.

    Regional processing in Malaysia and elsewhere is not some sort of cover for the other recommendations in the report. This is absolutely, 100 per cent what we have to do if we want to stop the boats in the long term,” Angus Houston, a former Defence Force chief and chairman of the expert panel, said.

  90. Coalition front benchers have been ordered to slash and burn when in government.

    They have been told to follow the British outsourcing model that was supposed to empower communities but instead gave enormous contracts to huge service companies.

  91. ME
    Great example of cost cutting in the UK. Should be easy for our msm to report the facts it headlines everyday in the papers, and the headlines are not pretty.

    Surprise suprise the charities and local communities that were led to believe would benefit from the changes have had funding slashed as well and big business has bought in to the sector. Serco, the company that runs our detention centres and part of the WA health system, now runs the UK state schools.

    But who will report this especially if Gina gets to run Fairfax before the next election.

  92. despite their plaintive cries for “debate”, the reliance of the various trolls on dishonesty/lies/misrepresentation to make their “case”, and their continued refusal to accept evidence which doesn’t fit their ideology/preconceptions, actively indicate a contempt for honest debate, which rather renders their protestations as yet further attempts at spreading baseless FUD.

    conveniently ignored are the requirements for honesty, and a capacity to admit error if any meaningful debate is to occur.

    perhaps they don’t yet grasp the concept that if you are reliant on lies etc., to make a case, then you don’t have one.

    a word for them ……….get real, ditch your cowardly fantasies and lies, and the opportunity for constructive debate arises.

    are you up to it :?:

    TEST QUESTION
    you are no doubt familiar with the claim that the PM “lied about the carbon tax”.

    why is this statement untrue ?

  93. lain..My first visit to your “site” was a query..: “Is your motto : ‘Bringing light into the darkness’…” inspired by your possesion of the only anal speculum in the country?”..Surely that is a fair and innoccent enquiry…a simple yes or no would have sufficed.
    As to scaper… . Wellll…..he may be a nice enough bloke..same as yourself, lain..I have nothing against yourselves personally…there’s really not enough depth of character there for me to judge…no humanity..you know?.. Can I diverge for a moment to give you a bit of advice..: you know..to be honoured, loved, respected..you have to allow others to see your vulnerable side..not as a weakness, but rather as a show of strength of character…sort of : ‘Here..this is my soft-side..you can attack it if you will, but be aware I will have to also defend it if I must’.
    But what I do despise is your too eager embrace of the right-wing philosophy. A philosophy dedicated to expoitative tyranny on the excuse that the “strongest survive”. Yes..the strongest survive..strange how I keep picturing Donald Sutherland in the Bernado Bertolucci movie “1900”, where he brilliantly plays a small-time suckole and fascist “rodomontade” who talks his way into the job of local fascist official and starts to tyrannise the local peasantry with his petty officialdom and brutality.
    I won’t go into the result, it is the common tale of those who side with a percieved “winning position” and they lurk and pander to the sychophantic dialogue just so that when the fascists gain office, they can be the first in line at the depot to get their brown-shirts and 9mm. squirters w/shiny leather holster that matches the gleam in their own eyes!..tie that together with their lack of empathy and feelings of superiority and you have a recipe for disaster.
    That’s why I take the piss out on the right-wingers whenever I can…nothing personal…just business…..ok?

  94. “Surprise suprise the charities and local communities that were led to believe would benefit from the changes have had funding slashed as well and big business has bought in ”

    The proof is in the eating. These bodies are being closed down quicker than the PS on the eastern seaboard states.

    It is a about ideology, not what is best for the nation. It is about small taxes and small government. Government that some believe should only have a role in defence and security, and nothing else.

    Even in these fields they will contract out as much as possible

    What they are talking about, is the law of the jungle, and survival of the fittest. Where those who have the power, reign supreme. Where one in not responsible for their fellow man. Where a civil society is seen as weak.

  95. Malaysia and as the report indicated other countries have to be put in place.

    There is no way we can get away with leaving people on what amounts to nearly e\deserted islands for up to a decade.

    They deserve and need to remain in as normal conditions as possible. They need to have access to the normal institutions that humans need to live a reasonable life.

    If they whole plan does not eventuate, what we are doing to these people would be cruelty of the highest order.

    It simply not work.

  96. Talk about hubris.

    This is the stuff nightmares are made of. At least Howard has has practice at the job. Remember how he loved pushing the GG side at every opportunity he got, as PM.

    What will Howard not do to get that harbourside address back.

    Godwin Grech,the former senior bureaucrat at the centre of the so-called Utegate scandal three years ago, struck a chord in conservative circles yesterday with a suggestion that John Howard should be Australia’s next Governor-General.

    http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/anyone-but-a-politican-for-our-next-gg/

  97. His name is Aidan McLindon.
    LOL – that backflipping piece of $#!t won’t be going anywhere ever again in politics.
    * leaves his job as Logan City councillor mid-term, causing an expensive by-election, to run for Beaudesert as a Liberal.
    * resigns from Liberal party to sit in State parliament as an independent after failing to win the deputy leadership of the LNP from Lawrence Springborg.
    * sulks off to form the Queensland party.
    * decides the Qld party is going nowhere, so joins KAP, resulting in the collapse of the Qld party.

    Rest assured, going on form, this is only a temporary position. By 2013, he’ll have moved on to another party or will stand as an independent – either way, he won’t win a Senate seat in Qld, as he is now well known for his mendacity and vacillation…

  98. Skeptical
    AUGUST 18, 2012 @ 8:52 AM
    Paul, all the trolls should get together in the sand pit for the type of debate that they are really good at… a mass…turbate.

    No I wouldn’t do that, It would give him to much satisfaction, he would never stop gloating that we entered the LIARS den.

  99. Paul, I wasn’t suggesting anyone else but the trolls go, and the reference being not mass debate, but rather “masturbate” as they seem more like wankers than debaters.

  100. Nice one Paul, the only shot missing was when they all put their snouts in the trough. :lol: :roll: :lol:

  101. Based on the result of the last Qld election

    There’s your problem right there. The 2013 election will be a federal election, and Can’t Do will have trashed the conservative brand further by then. Different election, different issues, different candidates – 14% will be just too far away for Mr McLindon…

  102. Scaper, as I recall there were very similar claims made about One Nation after their Stellar performance in the late 1990’s in Queensland. By the time the 2001 Federal Election came around, they were a spent force. That’s always the problem in trying to correlate state based outcomes to Federal ones!

  103. Tony Abbott is fit, very fit, tough, ruthless, and he honestly believes his lies are the truth. All he needs now is power. Then God help any opponents, or minority groups, or women! I’m just glad I’m Mr Normal so he’ll treat me gently… if I can tolerate remaining in intolerant Australia. God help the Aboriginals and Torres Straight Islanders too, once the Intervention is revised and the Racial Discrimination Act deactivated!

    Fiscal conservatives have blind faith in Tony Abbott to deliver the cuts no matter what collateral damage is done to vulnerable Australians. The 1.5% Paid Parental Leave scheme tax will hit just about all ASX500 companies, affecting narrow margin stocks more than that of the carbon tax.

    Iain Hall, you blow my mind, you can’t see any reason. You rival Abbott in your ability to reject all logic: “Sure but I have to ask have you ever had any enduring contact with the disabled or the terminally ill? Have you so little self awareness that you don’t appreciate the way that such people are often able to make a virtue out of their adversity if they seek a particular political outcome?” <– Iain, the disabled and terminally ill are not that way due to a frail mind. Comparing suicide-vulnerable people with disabled and terminally ill is bizarre and ill considered.

  104. Sure but I have to ask have you ever had any enduring contact with the disabled or the terminally ill? Have you so little self awareness that you don’t appreciate the way that such people are often able to make a virtue out of their adversity if they seek a particular political outcome?

    “Such people” , Iain? “Such f*cking people”? Enduring contact with the disabled and terminally ill? I hope to God you’ve never had any enduring contact with the terminally ill or disabled.

    How dare you have so little self awareness, or any awareness at all about people with disabilities and/or terminal illnesses, that you can accuse them of being con merchants.

    Isn’t it enough that they have to deal with health issues not of their making, without creatures like you and that appalling fraud Liealot projecting your own dishonesty onto them.

    You should be ashamed of yourself and doubly ashamed that you support that vile creature Liealot.

  105. Does anyone know if there are any laws – corporate, criminal or constitutional, that can be brought to bear on public figures for deliberately lying to the public and/or undermining our system of government? Are there any laws that can be brought to bear on the media too for that matter? Could a class action be brought against a political or media figure on the public’s behalf?

  106. james00000001 @ 3:51 pm

    Tony Abbott is fit, very fit, tough, ruthless, and he honestly believes his lies are the truth. All he needs now is power. Then God help any opponents, or minority groups, or women! I’m just glad I’m Mr Normal so he’ll treat me gently… if I can tolerate remaining in intolerant Australia. God help the Aboriginals and Torres Straight Islanders too, once the Intervention is revised and the Racial Discrimination Act deactivated!

    Mate that sounds like an example paranoid fear to me, either that or its evidence of a total lack of understanding of politics.

    Fiscal conservatives have blind faith in Tony Abbott to deliver the cuts no matter what collateral damage is done to vulnerable Australians. The 1.5% Paid Parental Leave scheme tax will hit just about all ASX500 companies, affecting narrow margin stocks more than that of the carbon tax.

    Actually have you ever considered that if care is not taken to ensure that the government can live within its means then the “vulnerable Australians” that you seem to care so much about will not have any support in the long term if the government goes broke?

    Iain Hall, you blow my mind, you can’t see any reason. You rival Abbott in your ability to reject all logic: “Sure but I have to ask have you ever had any enduring contact with the disabled or the terminally ill? Have you so little self awareness that you don’t appreciate the way that such people are often able to make a virtue out of their adversity if they seek a particular political outcome?” <– Iain, the disabled and terminally ill are not that way due to a frail mind. Comparing suicide-vulnerable people with disabled and terminally ill is bizarre and ill considered.

    Thinking of individuals Like Bernie Banton, well I don’t judge people harshly for using any card at their disposal to push their agenda, especially if its something that I happen to agree with like just compensation for those who have been crippled with Asbestos related disease.However that does not mean that I am blind to the fact that he was using the sympathy card to do so.

    jane @ 1:32 am

    “Such people” , Iain? “Such f*cking people”? Enduring contact with the disabled and terminally ill? I hope to God you’ve never had any enduring contact with the terminally ill or disabled.

    Well I have Jane and much more than I wish to share publicly with you. That is why I know what I’m talking about here and clearly you don’t know the first thing about the subject.

    How dare you have so little self awareness, or any awareness at all about people with disabilities and/or terminal illnesses, that you can accuse them of being con merchants.

    No not “con merchants” that would imply that they are being deceptive or dishonest and I don’t think that is the case at all. But many doe become very skilled at using their infirmity to their advantage when it suits them.

    Isn’t it enough that they have to deal with health issues not of their making, without creatures like you and that appalling fraud Liealot projecting your own dishonesty onto them.

    You are the one projecting here Jane. You are projecting a rather naive notion of the nobility of suffering and implied purity of spirit to the afflicted. When a realist will tell you that those who are disabled or terminally ill have the full range of character variations just like the able bodied. Now I have a chronic pain condition Jane that requires me to take lots of pain relief and it severely restricts the things that I can do with my life so by your reasoning can I now expect that you will treat me better?that you will see me as a more noble creature? That you will defer to me because you see me as a “noble victim” of disability?
    No?

    Well that means that you might just have got my point and the point that Tony Abbott was making by refering to Bernie Banton’s attempt to deliver that petition in person

    You should be ashamed of yourself and doubly ashamed that you support that vile creature Liealot.

    No Jane it is you that should be ashamed for your lack of understanding of the full extent of human nature and behaviour.

  107. I suggest that Bernie was pointing out reality to us. He was laying the blame at the foot of a greedy company that ignored the rights of the worker, a human being, to make money, at any cost.

    Yes, Bernie, fought for the rights of his fellow beings, agaisnt a powerful boss who attempted to avoid their responsibilities.

    Yes, he was shocking person, even though he did it at great expense to himself.

    Governments are there to meet the means of the people. If a wealthy country cannot look after their weak and vulnerable, what are they for

  108. C U
    No body doubted that the companies that mined and uses asbestos are responsible for its ill effects but given the very long led time between exposure and the development of Mesotheoloma its hardly surprising that its taken a long time to set things right.
    I think that we generally do ok when it comes to looking after our weak and vulnerable not perfect but OK none the less.

  109. “asbestos are responsible for its ill effects but given the very long led time between exposure and the development of Mesotheoloma its hardly surprising that its taken a long time to set things right.”

    Surprisingly so, when it was known before www11 of the danger.

    As a certain miners father said, we need the asbestos, therefore someone has to dig it out. He took no responsibility for any harm caused. Wonder if the daughter sees things in the same way.

    I do not have a link to this when said. It was many years , as it was so outrageous. The blue abestos mines where well and truly in the news at that time..

  110. I think someone needs to do a little reading of how industry has treated there workers during most of the last century.

    Hint start with BHP and read some of the compensation cases that hit the court. One where a man fell metres into a machine, breaking his spine in many places, accused of faking it. The list is endless.

    There are many books and studies into the matter.

    All safety laws within industry are the result of hard fought battles of the unions. Non were given voluntary. All were fought against.

    This is the real world that many of us recall. Not one that sees the boss as being generous and caring.

  111. Iain – you really have NFI do you? Jane has a much closer and in-depth understanding of caring for people with a disability than you could ever have! Suggestion: quit while you’re so far behind!

  112. iain in reply to Jane

    clearly you don’t know the first thing about the subject.

    No you are WRONG AS USUAL iain, ………JUST BECAUSE YOU ARE AN INVETERATE LIAR, THAT DOESN’T GIVE YOU THE RIGHT TO PROJECT YOUR DISHONESTY ONTO OTHERS.

    as usual, you haven’t a clue as to what you’re talking about, and substitute lies, accusation and bullshit for argument.

    I’ve news for you fuckwit, most here participate HONESTLY – you and your troll mates are the only liars i’ve come across here, and pretty much anywhere i’ve been among the blogs.

    i’d say the only disability you would have to concern yourself with is your own lack of intellectual honesty, and the inability to recognise your own error.

  113. Iain and,

    Thinking of individuals Like Bernie Banton, well I don’t judge people harshly for using any card at their disposal to push their agenda, especially if its something that I happen to agree with like just compensation for those who have been crippled with Asbestos related disease.However that does not mean that I am blind to the fact that he was using the sympathy card to do so.

    Let me the count the ways that you are so wrong with this. How many people take the trouble to “push agendas” only weeks before they have died. How many people would, while in must have been extreme agony, got out of their bed solely to present a petition – and for a drug for which they themselves would receive no benefit, as of course for Bernie it was too late.

    If this is pushing an agenda – may the world be filled with such inspiring individuals.

  114. No reply to how long the dangers of asbestos has been known. Undermines all his arguments. It is because of this fact, that Hardie had no defence.

    When one gets down to the nitty gritty, many disappeared. Fancy sounding slogans and put downs no long impress.

  115. It says a lot for out society, that the sympathy card, used by a dying man, had to be used.

    It was a sympathy card, backed up by fact and data. It was all based on truth.

    Bernie did not whinge about his plight at any time. In fact the opposite was true, he did all in his power to make it easier for them close and dear to him.

    It was not the sympathy card that drew attention. It was the courageous stand this man took. It was the guts he showed in the face of great controversity.

    It was his guts, that was acknowledged, not the sympathy card.

    His stand took guts. Something some here do not understand.

    That is why they can see nothing of value in our present PM. That is why the PM is still standing.

    We seen today, once more the PM come out and face her enemies full on. No running away for her.

    There was no running away for Bernie, he fought to his last breath.

  116. The PM had to endure the Opposition leader rubbing her nose in it.

    Is that what we saw, or was it Mr. Abbott, once again the ungraceful bad loser, acting like am idiotic toddler..

  117. pterosaur1, exactly, but I do think the trolls attitude must be coloured by his own struggle with terminal ignorance and terminal stupidity.
    What an absolute KNOB.
    :evil: :sad:

  118. Bacchus @ 11:01 am

    Iain – you really have NFI do you? Jane has a much closer and in-depth understanding of caring for people with a disability than you could ever have! Suggestion: quit while you’re so far behind!

    I am certain that you are wrong on this Bacchus, I grew up with a sister who has Cerebral Palsy so I have had fifty years of experience.

    pterosaur1 @ 11:17 am

    Iain in reply to Jane

    clearly you don’t know the first thing about the subject.

    No you are WRONG AS USUAL Iain, ………JUST BECAUSE YOU ARE AN INVETERATE LIAR, THAT DOESN’T GIVE YOU THE RIGHT TO PROJECT YOUR DISHONESTY ONTO OTHERS.

    Having an opinion different to Jane about this issue does not make either of us liars

    as usual, you haven’t a clue as to what you’re talking about, and substitute lies, accusation and bullshit for argument.

    Well as I point out to Bacchus above I have had a life time of experience so that demolishes your bile and spittle riven rant right there.

    I’ve news for you fuckwit, most here participate HONESTLY – you and your troll mates are the only liars I’ve come across here, and pretty much anywhere I’ve been among the blogs.

    No wonder you have had one stroke, it seems that you get wound up at the drop of a hat, and with no real reason.

    I’d say the only disability you would have to concern yourself with is your own lack of intellectual honesty, and the inability to recognise your own error.

    I really don’t think that you understand just what “intellectual honesty” is because anyone reading your comemnts would come to the conclusion that for you there is a requirement that one has to have leftist politics to be intellectually honest.

    Min @ 11:39 am

    Let me the count the ways that you are so wrong with this. How many people take the trouble to “push agendas” only weeks before they have died. How many people would, while in must have been extreme agony, got out of their bed solely to present a petition – and for a drug for which they themselves would receive no benefit, as of course for Bernie it was too late.

    If this is pushing an agenda – may the world be filled with such inspiring individuals.

    I don’t disagree with what you are saying about the will and courage involved Min but that does not make it less of a media stunt now does it?

    Catching up @ 11:49 am

    No reply to how long the dangers of asbestos has been known. Undermines all his arguments. It is because of this fact, that Hardie had no defence.

    Why do I need to answer when I agree with what you say? It was utterly despicable and I won’t defend them because I think that what they did was indefensible.

  119. That is not what was said. What was said, that because of the timeline of the effects, it was no wonder Hardie so long to come on board.

    I am actually surprised that one would lie, to have the last word.

    This is what you said.

    No body doubted that the companies that mined and uses asbestos are responsible for its ill effects but given the very long led time between exposure and the development of Mesotheoloma its hardly surprising that its taken a long time to set things right.
    I think that we generally do ok when it comes to looking after our weak and vulnerable not perfect but OK none the less.

    Yes, over seventy years.

  120. C U
    we are arguing at cross purposes here and its just wrong to suggest that I’m lying here.
    I suspect that you just can’t believe that I’m actually just as upset about the Asbestos issue as the most rabid lefty.

  121. Iain and,

    Min but that does not make it less of a media stunt now does it?

    Actually yes it does, due to the connotation that a stunt has as its motivation a lack of sincerity. I believe that Bernie was perfectly sincere, and had a genuine desire to help other sufferers of mesothelioma. Therefore to call Bernie’s presentation of the petition “a stunt” is a big insult to the intention behind the action.

  122. Sadly I do so believe that you are not that upset. Of so, why make the statements in the first place.

    I was not at cross purpose.

    The truth is that you were a little too quick with the response and being smart.

    Once again you were relying I what you think people are saying, not what they do. Too busy putting your words in others mouths.

    I hate to say this, but suspect your sister would agree, there are much worse things that occur to people than cerebral palsy. Had a cousin who was seriously effected, with very little body movement and no speech. He was a joy to be around.

    Try mental illness or mentally disabled for starters, that can be hell on earth.

  123. Turd of Turd Hall wrote:

    No wonder you have had one stroke, it seems that you get wound up at the drop of a hat, and with no real reason.

    Mocking a person’s medical condition is the most despicable thing you have ever written. That is surely worthy being banned from this site.

  124. Im not sure but I think I may have stumbled onto a ‘new’ form of comedy :D ….. what you do is *scroll* past Iain but read all the comments before and after, its so much more fun than wasting time reading his rot…… :)

  125. Im not sure but I think I may have stumbled onto a ‘new’ form of comedy :D ….. what you do is *scroll* past Iain but read all the comments before and after, its so much more fun than wasting time reading his rot…… :)

    Excellent idea LOVO. The troll’s comments are about a metre long, but it’s worth the scroll! Scroll the troll.

  126. I agree. Iain, that was fairly low.

    A person does not need to be ridiculed because he had a stroke. In pterosaur’s case, I admire the way he has fought to overcome this major obstacle.

  127. Miglo, a person does not have to be ridiculed no matter what the medical condition they have, obviously Iain has no heart or compassion for other people.

  128. If Iain has had this experience of looking after his sister, he should not have said what he said, he should have just kept his mouth shut. Now that he has opened it up, he should not complain about what people say about him. HE deserves his just deserts.

  129. I think you need to be carried out of it. :mrgreen:

    LOVO, could you go down and rescue Paul? You’ve got four hours. ;-)

  130. Migs, heres a peck from da cellar……… (and you thought I was just pinch’n ya piss)
    Patricia WA
    October 19, 2010 @ 10:41 am
    “Arms and the Man.”

    If Tony Abbot had his way
    He’d mix with uniforms every day;
    Policemen in their blue and gray,,
    Khaki-clad soldiers far away,
    As long as guns are on display.
    He loves to hold them. ‘Just for play,’
    That’s what his PR guys all say.
    I don’t believe that! No way, Jose!
    I’m doing a routine survey
    To check him out from day to day.
    Yes, I”ve set up a dossier!

    He’s married, so he can’t be gay!
    Still that’s a long disproved cliché!
    Manly beach sees him on display,
    Chest bared to sun, as if to say,
    “Come and get me, solar ray!”
    Yet he’s not one to flirt or stray.
    Or toss around his DNA!
    His sense of humor’s not risqué.
    Doesn’t gamble away his pay,
    Or drink, except café au lait.
    Somewhere there must be feet of clay!

    So why the passion for gun play?
    Influence of the USA?
    Where being armed has such cachet?
    Was his youth’s hero soldier Che?
    As ‘martyr of the left’ lost sway,
    To the right, he found Pinochet,
    Gun toting ‘saviour’ of Chile?
    Does he dream of his ‘Victory!’ day?
    Complete with fireworks display?
    Cannons roaring! A band to play!
    Australians shouting, “Tony!” “Ole!”

    To all that visit here tours of the cellar are free……oh, and sadly BYO ( and Im yet to find any coffee)…… thou it does have a certain WOW factor .. :D

  131. Min @ 6:12 pm

    Actually yes it does, due to the connotation that a stunt has as its motivation a lack of sincerity. I believe that Bernie was perfectly sincere, and had a genuine desire to help other sufferers of mesothelioma. Therefore to call Bernie’s presentation of the petition “a stunt” is a big insult to the intention behind the action.

    I just don’t reed the word “stunt” to be , of necessity, either lacking in sincerity or that it is in any way deceptive. Its just another way of describing what is a clever bit of politicking that makes good use of the general sympathy that the terminally ill evoke among the well, and well meaning.

    Catching up @ 6:24 pm

    Sadly I do so believe that you are not that upset. Of so, why make the statements in the first place.

    Because I’m a cynic who does not think that you have to deny the reality that our sympathies can be used to manipulate us as much as our baser desires can be used for the same purpose.

    I was not at cross purpose.

    I don’t think that you understand what “arguing at cross purposes” means.

    The truth is that you were a little too quick with the response and being smart.

    You want me to be dumb here?

    Once again you were relying I what you think people are saying, not what they do. Too busy putting your words in others mouths.

    I can only go on what you say given I can’t possibly see what you do :roll:

    I hate to say this, but suspect your sister would agree, there are much worse things that occur to people than cerebral palsy. Had a cousin who was seriously effected, with very little body movement and no speech. He was a joy to be around.

    Yeah my sister can be nice too but its a different ting too live with something like that day in and day out.

    Try mental illness or mentally disabled for starters, that can be hell on earth.

    Sadly I know far more about that than I care to share
    silkworm @ 8:30

    Turd of Turd Hall wrote:

    No wonder you have had one stroke, it seems that you get wound up at the drop of a hat, and with no real reason.

    Mocking a person’s medical condition is the most despicable thing you have ever written. That is surely worthy being banned from this site.

    Did you read the bile filled rant I was responding to? Its insults and unnecessary personal attacks? Its not me that is behaving badly here In fact I was being most moderate in my response by any measure.

    Catching up @ 9:19 pm

    Silkworm, one has to agree. It is a unnecessary comment.

    what was unnecessary was pterosaur’s unprovoked personal attack upon yours truly.


    Miglo @ 9:41 pm

    I agree. Iain, that was fairly low.

    A person does not need to be ridiculed because he had a stroke. In pterosaur’s case, I admire the way he has fought to overcome this major obstacle.

    Migs I have tried to offer an olive branch to the man a couple of times as you will have observed but he just seems to think that anyone who is not a card carrying Latte sipper has no place in the political conversation here and he clearly gets rather wound up at the drop of a hat at the thought of any conservative or , Gasp climate sceptic, joining in here.

    paulwello @ 10:15 pm

    Miglo, a person does not have to be ridiculed no matter what the medical condition they have, obviously Iain has no heart or compassion for other people.

    No Paul I just call it as I see it with total honesty. Just because I see someone (like Bernie Banton) using the cards that they hold for a noble purpose does not make me wilfully blind to the psychological manipulation of the interpersonal transaction. Likewise pterosaur’s stroke and his subsequent recovery is clearly a story of great determination that he is now successfully using as a shield for what amounts quite reprehensible behaviour in the comment threads here.The difference between pterosaur and Mr Banton is that the later had a noble cause but the former is just channelling his inner totalitarian
    Miglo @ 10:35 pm

    Paul, I suffer from every medical condition known to man. :(
    I know what you’re saying.

    Its the ones known only to women that you have to watch out for Migs ;)

    paulwello @ 10:44 pm

    If Iain has had this experience of looking after his sister, he should not have said what he said, he should have just kept his mouth shut. Now that he has opened it up, he should not complain about what people say about him. HE deserves his just deserts.

    The reverse its true when it comes down to tin tacks Paul. Its because I have had the first hand experience that I am inoculated against the undue sympathy and rather vile patronising attitude to the disabled that a lot of well meaning people have. When my sister was younger we, as a family made a conscious decision that if she fell over (which was often) then she would get no help to get up unless she asked for help. Sounds cruel doesn’t it? Well it was necessary so that she would be independent, and it worked.As I said earlier disability does not ennoble anyone per se and even when they make a grand effort to recover from something terrible like a significant stroke that should not give them licence to behave any worse than their fully able fellows.

  132. Turd of Turd Hall wrote:

    Its the ones known only to women that you have to watch out for Migs ;)

    Now you mock women with disabilities? You’re a misogynistic POS.

  133. Silkworm
    I was attempting to make light of Migs claiming that he suffered from every disease known to man, by suggesting that he had better look out for disease that only women know about, how you can claim that I am mocking either women or disabled women from that quip is an absolute mystery to me. But feel free to explain your reasoning.

  134. iain

    i don’t use anything as a shield as you allege. point (link?) to one occasion i have done so or withdraw and apologise.

    when you lie and i call attention to it, evidently it becomes in your warped perspective, an ad hominem attack ? well, no, it doesn’t, :shock:

    on the other hand, when faced with either evidence or opinion contrary to your delusions, you immediately commence to attack the messenger, as you did when i initially called you on your bullshitted expertise wrt to scientific method, and later with your claim to Jane, which i quoted above.
    that sounds a bit more “Ad hom” to me, than calling out a liar on his lies.

    you are unequivocally wrong on the facts in both cases. i’ve exampled,
    and you certainly owe Jane an apology – the abject, grovelling variety would be perhaps appropriate.

    you project your dishonesty on to others continually iain – perhaps you regard that as being “clever”?

    more like morally, personally amd intellectually bankrupt imho

    and given the obvious bias of reality to the “left wing”, i am quite happy here, on a left(ish) blog :lol:

  135. Pterosaur1, projection is a typical tactic of those from the Far Right. It’s all they have when they have no actual *facts* to rely on!

  136. Why do some think we need to telling that the next election will see Mr. Abbott in being PM.

    Maybe it will, maybe it won’t. It is not a fact, unless one has the ability to look into the future.

    Do they think we are so dense, that we do not know this COULD happen.

    That is politics, that is democracy. If this occurs, I believe that you will not hear form this side “we were robbed” and throw tantrums for the following three years.

  137. AUSTRALIAN MISERY

    WHY ARE AUSTRALIANS SO PESSIMISTIC WHEN THE COUNTRY IS IN SUCH A GOOD POSITION FINANCIALY AND IS SUCH A GREAT PLACE TO LIVE.

    Countries all around the world cannot understand
    why we aren’t happier.
    I’M ABOUT TO TELL YOU

    The pessimism shown by the Coalition on every subject has infected the electorate with a virus that is all pervading.(Keep the people frightened is the motto)

    The dollar is high which causes minor problems but our exports of natural resources is at an all time high and farm exports are set to take off this year and unemployment is at record low levels.

    None of these things are even mentioned by the Coalition(particularly in a positive sense)all they ever do tell us is how bad things are and how bad things are about to happen to us all.

    These same people will claim if they win government at the next election that the great trade figures and low unemployment is of their making, they will not acknowledge that this country is going through a boom and no matter who is in power we will do well.

    Suddenly they will tell us how lucky we are and that we live in a lucky country, and guess what, pessimism will be replaced by optimism.

    This will prove only one thing, that the Coalition likes to keep the electorate frightened because they can manipulated the electorate easier(it worked before, children overboard).
    Once in power they will show us the smiling face once more.

    This is where we are now, parliament has turned into a child care centre, the behaviour of politicians on both sides has turned in nothing but vitriol. Debate doesn’t even take place any more and we are paying these people….for what?

    They are like pigs in a trough fighting for every last bit of food….power is their prize and they don’t care what it takes to get it, even if it means creating unwarranted fear in peoples lives.

    Yes I have become biased, I can’t help it, to change my attitude all the Coalition has to do is stop saying no to everything and start showing us what a Coalition can do really do instead.

    NO WONDER POLITICIANS ARE HELD IN SUCH UTTER CONTEMPT

    http://www.goodluckstroke.com/2012/08/australian-misery.html

  138. Iain and,

    ..clever bit of politicking that makes good use of the general sympathy that the terminally ill evoke among the well, and well meaning.

    Iain, pardon but what else would a drug to treat asbestosis be about other than the terminally ill…. This was about getting a drug onto the PBS, I find it difficult to believe that anyone would define this as “politicking”.

  139. This is what the Right is expert at: smearing
    by Bernard Keane
    Remember “Utegate”? The Prime Minister had been corrupted by the provision of a car. The Treasurer had provided special treatment for the PM’s mate. The media, and particularly News Limited, went into meltdown. The whole thing turned out to be the concoction of an embittered Liberal Party supporter inside Treasury.

    Then there’s the Heiner Affair, a long-running claim that Kevin Rudd covered up child abuse in 1990. Angry right-wing bloggers continue to push this, with support from a News Ltd columnist.

    And there was the Mark Latham “s-x video” rumour in 2004, born on talkback radio and then given a solid boost by those noted pugilists Glenn Milne of News Ltd and Crikey’s own Stephen Mayne.

    And there was Paul Keating’s corruption, supposedly over a piggery (Mayne was still running with that in 2008). Alan Ramsey gave some history about Keating and that “unrelenting and effective political grub” Tony Staley many years ago. And the incessant claims that either Keating was having an affair with a female journalist or a prominent businesswoman, or that he was gay (having been “spotted in Paris with an attractive young man” who inconveniently turned out to be his son, Patrick).

    Not to mention Andrew Peacock calling Bob Hawke “a little crook” in Parliament.

    Now, it’s unclear exactly what Julia Gillard is being accused of having done when she worked for Slater and Gordon (beyond having bad taste in men, which is something she admits). The firm has stated that she wasn’t sacked, and that there was no evidence that she’d benefited from Bruce Wilson’s actions. But they would say that, wouldn’t they, insisted a News Ltd journalist today, because Slater and Gordon “needs the continuing work that comes from a healthy caseload”.

    What that even means isn’t clear — maybe Hedley Thomas thinks Julia Gillard will personally direct Commonwealth agencies to give the firm work. It’s the sort of tenuous, join-the-dots-and-hope logic that pervades these smears……….

    http://www.crikey.com.au/2012/08/20/this-is-what-the-right-is-expert-at-smearing/

  140. pterosaur1 @ 12:53 pm

    iain

    i don’t use anything as a shield as you allege. point (link?) to one occasion i have done so or withdraw and apologise.

    I make no allegations about you beyond noting your boorish and ungracious behaviour so I have nothing to recant and no reason to apologise to you.

    when you lie and i call attention to it, evidently it becomes in your warped perspective, an ad hominem attack ? well, no, it doesn’t, :shock:

    To lie requires the knowing telling of falsehoods and I have not done that at all, I may be wrong about some things but being in error is not in any sense telling a lie. You seem to lack the ability to appreciate that simple fact.

    on the other hand, when faced with either evidence or opinion contrary to your delusions, you immediately commence to attack the messenger, as you did when i initially called you on your bullshitted expertise wrt to scientific method, and later with your claim to Jane, which i quoted above.

    I’m sure that you think that you are a smart bloke but I’m detecting more piss and vinegar than substance in your arguments as I said earlier and on another thread
    I have never claimed “expertise” with regard to the scientific method all that I have ever claimed is that I understand teh principles of it.

    you are unequivocally wrong on the facts in both cases. i’ve exampled,
    and you certainly owe Jane an apology – the abject, grovelling variety would be perhaps appropriate.

    You and Jane are peas from the same pod insofar as you both have a propensity towards abusing people when they don’t agree with you. Its poor form, rather childish and dare I say it evidence of an underlying insecurity.

    you project your dishonesty on to others continually iain – perhaps you regard that as being “clever”?

    Yawn!! I think taht you are teh one projecting here Pterosaur

    more like morally, personally amd intellectually bankrupt imho

    Definitely wrong on all counts

    and given the obvious bias of reality to the “left wing”, i am quite happy here, on a left(ish) blog :lol:

    That is not even an intelligible sentence!


    Marcus @ 1:01 pm

    Pterosaur1, projection is a typical tactic of those from the Far Right. It’s all they have when they have no actual *facts* to rely on!

    Define a “fact” please
    Catching up @ 1:21 pm

    Why do some think we need to telling that the next election will see Mr. Abbott in being PM.

    To bring light into your darkness

    Maybe it will, maybe it won’t. It is not a fact, unless one has the ability to look into the future.

    Its more likely than Labor holding office

    Do they think we are so dense, that we do not know this COULD happen.

    Oh I’m well aware that you are in that long north African river

    That is politics, that is democracy. If this occurs, I believe that you will not hear form this side “we were robbed” and throw tantrums for the following three years.

    Oh I bet we will, in any event I have been saying for a very long time that minority government is a poisoned chalice and that I’m glad that Tony could not do a deal to get it.


    Min @ 1:39 pm

    Iain, pardon but what else would a drug to treat asbestosis be about other than the terminally ill…. This was about getting a drug onto the PBS, I find it difficult to believe that anyone would define this as “politicking”.

    I think that our point of conflict here is that you think that ““politicking” is a derisive term where as I just don’t see it that way at all to me its just a way to describe the gamesmanship of politics.

  141. I have never came across such a bore. One that has not got the sense to see that none here care what he has to say.

    We are just not interested,.

    I care not but do resent the time wasted in trying to deal with his somewhat dubious comments.

    It is hard not to, when they generally end up with personal insults, made worse by the fact, that he does not see them as such.

  142. Hiya Tony! Hows tricks?

    So you haven’t had that great a time of it late have you? I mean there’s there whole who sold bits of whose arse thing last week, and then today, you make history being probably the first opposition leader to be ejected from parliament. The statisticians are still working on this. You may not be the first, but you surely broke a drought either way!

    *addendum! Abbott only gets the bronze. Third opposition leader to be ejected in 112 years of parliament*

    http://ashghebranious.wordpress.com/2012/08/20/open-letter-to-tony-abbott/#comment-1616

  143. Iain and,

    I think that our point of conflict here is that you think that ““politicking” is a derisive term where as I just don’t see it that way at all to me its just a way to describe the gamesmanship of politics.

    Iain you miss my point. I consider a drug for the treatment of mesothelioma a health issue and little to do with politics at all. To give you an example, if Bernie had presented the petition to the then shadow minister Nicola Roxon – this could then be construed as a stunt and politicking. However, to present the petition to Health Minister Abbott was no more than just what it seemed, it was presenting a petition and to the appropriate person.

    Did I say that politicking is a derisive term? No I didn’t, nor did I make this inference at all.

  144. Min
    Everything is political even things like the funding of worthy causes. But lets cut to the chase was Tony Abbott a little cruel in dismissing Bernie Banton? Sure, he was lacking in a little tact and some of the social graces in his too candid description of that act as a “stunt”. But is that a hanging offence? Only the excessively sanctimonious would think that it was which is why I have been defending it.

  145. Iain, it is the measure of the man which is a worry. We are speaking about a potential leader of our country and if he cannot be fckn courteous to a dying man, who the fck is he going to be courteous to.

  146. Tony Abbott a little cruel in dismissing Bernie Banton? Sure, he was lacking in a little tact and some of the social graces in his too candid description of that act as a “stunt”. But is that a hanging offence?

    I can’t see why not. Sounds like a good idea. :mrgreen:

  147. According to the younger Bishop, it was the PM’s fault. The PM should not have said what she did. It appears he objected to the PM saying he was going to cut funding for public schools. Tony said this was a lie. Now what is different in that, and all the lies that Tony repeats every day, starting with electricity costs.

    Tony can make complaint at the proper time, after question time.

    The PM should have shut up when Tony told her so. My words. Tony then quite rightly took issue with her by calling her a liar.

    Lyndal Curtis asked Ms. Bishop if he did call the PM a liar. According to the younger Bishop. Tony did no more than what most Australasian s are calling her at liar.

    So Mr. Abbott reserves the right to ignore the rules of the house.

    Earlier, Burke was made to withdraw the word lie, when he said a pamphlet was lying.

    it was Menzies and Howard, as opposition leaders, that were previously thrown out.

    Ms. Bishop made her replies with a straight face. This is to be our FM.

  148. The speaker should have pulled the PM for lying. How did the speaker know she was lying.

    Curtis then asked what Tony meant. as she was a Education minister.

    Yes it is OK to ignore the standards of the house.

    Curtis did not agree with Bishops answer. Curtis said that it could be taken as cutting to public schools.

    One rule for Tony, another for everyone else.

  149. Once again, Tony cannot take responsibility for his own actions.
    What he said could be interpreted as cutting public school spending. Pyne has said similar, Bishop also this afternoon.

    They allege that the public sector is not needy and get more than the private.

    To me, that is saying they get too much.

  150. BMac, that rumour was doing the rounds here in Canberra last Christmas due to an unconfirmed affair TA was allegedly taking part in. The rumour was given some credibility because he apparently wasn’t at home for an extended period. He had nowhere to sleep so he took to the road. Rumour also had it that his wife took him back.

    I must admit that they aren’t seen in public together much these days.

    But then again, who in their right mind would want to be seen in public with that prick?

  151. As I said, Tony can give it but cannot take it.

    He literally got thrown out for throwing a tantrum.

    Mr Abbott was ordered to leave the house for an hour. He is the sixth opposition leader to be ordered from the chamber in Australian parliamentary history.
    The last time an opposition leader was ejected from the House of Representatives was in 1986 when then Liberal leader John Howard was thrown out for 24 hours by Labor Deputy Speaker Leo McLeay for ”disregarding the authority of the Speaker”.
    Leader of the Nationals Warren Truss – who was thrown out by Speaker Peter Slipper in February, sparking a mass walkout of Nationals MPs – tweeted after question time: ”Tony Abbott becomes 3rd Opposition Leader in history to be thrown out of Parliament. The other two were Menzies and Howard. Good Omen!”
    Shortly after Mr Abbott’s ejection, Ms Gillard ended question time.
    The manager of opposition business, frontbencher Christopher Pyne, and shadow treasurer Joe Hockey were also earlier ordered to leave the chamber for one hour during an unruly question time.
    After he left the chamber, Mr Abbott issued a statement accusing Ms Gillard of misrepresenting his stance on education funding.
    ”The Prime Minister alleged that I told the Independent Schools Council of Australia that a Coalition government would cut the funding of government schools,” he said.
    ”This is not true. It is just another lie from Julia Gillard.”
    Despite delaying the government’s official response to the Gonski report, Ms Gillard pledged today that every independent school in Australia would have its funding increase, no matter how wealthy it was.
    In response, Mr Abbott said he was deeply sceptical the additional funding recommended by the Gonski review was doable at this time, given the fiscal demands faced by the federal and state governments, including border protection and the National Disability Insurance Scheme.
    ”The idea another $5 billion a year might be forthcoming for Gonski … the idea this kind of money is lying around waiting to be spent defies common sense,” Mr Abbott said.
    Ms Gillard used Mr Abbott’s remarks during question time to raise doubts over the Coalition’s commitment to education funding, sparking Mr Abbott’s ire.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/abbott-ejected-from-the-house-in-unruly-question-time-20120820-24hvw.html#ixzz244ItTIeP

  152. BMac – you’re not the first to hear rumours like that – from a much more recent time than last Christmas.

  153. What Abbott is best at, running away.

    Running away from parliament.
    Running away from respect for parliament.
    Running away from questions.
    Running away from all but select media.
    Running away from the environment.
    Running away from education.
    Running away from workers.
    Running away from economy.
    Running away from policy.
    Running away from the people of Australia.
    Running away from himself.

  154. Voice from the past.

    Mr Wilson died of heat stroke in Nepean Hospital the next day.

    The teenager had filled in for a friend who worked as a contractor for Pride Building, the inquiry heard. He had not undergone any training or induction programs with the company.
    His partner on the day, Collin Cini, had worked in insulation for only a few weeks before Mr Wilson’s death.

    Marcus Wilson … collapsed on the road. Photo: Supplied
    Mr Cini’s only training had been a four-hour course, which he said did not cover the dangers of working in confined spaces.
    Mr Cini said that, during the course, he was given a question and answer assessment, but the answers were provided.
    He also told the court he had no formal instructions from his superiors at Pride about what to do in extreme temperatures…………

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/teenager–who-died-installing-batts-had-no-company-training-inquest-20120820-24hko.html#ixzz244RiKTkp

  155. From Phillip Coorey, Julia Gillard has a trust problem, and an old issue isn’t helping. Which is precisely why the non-story was run…

  156. Tony Abbott must have been p1ssed being thrown out of QT because he took himself out for a run. Then having the PM answer all his carbon Tax questions with “tony abbott says high electricity charges are not due to the carbon tax” and the PM saying that Abbott will cut funding to state schools, must have had his blood boiling because he, Tony Abbott was solely responsible for giving the PM the quotes.

    Yes a lot of angst for Tony to work out through exercise.

  157. CU
    yet again it looks as though a coroner’s court will find the contractor in breach of basic oh&s.
    i bet the public and the Minster won’t get any apologies from News ltd about it’s deceitful portrayal of Peter Garratt in the deaths of these untrained employees.

  158. Yet more tricky dick stuff coming from the oo. Below is by Ashghebranious..

    As I say, I dont have the statement nor was it published. I could most likely be wrong. But I dont need to see the statement when Hedley Thomas offered an opinion piece on his own piece. This stood out a mile to me straight away.

    The outcome, says Styant-Browne, was that the partnership “took a very serious view of these matters, and accepted her resignation”.

    Do you see what Hedley did here? He took two distinct quotes he had printed in the first article and in his opinion merged them into a third totally different quote.

    http://ashghebranious.wordpress.com/2012/08/20/when-is-a-quote-not-a-quote/

  159. iain@5:49 AM

    Likewise pterosaur’s stroke …………. that he is now successfully using as a shield

    iain@4:03 PM

    I make no allegations about you

    iain = liar QED :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

  160. Channel 7 saying that Gillard only has weeks as Labor colleagues are unhappy about the way she answered questions on her past.

    Oh for fuck sake Seven. You have got it wrong about Gillard from day one and you still spruik utter crap without a conscience or apology.

  161. That’s it isn’t it Migs. Abbott has lost at each and every turn, and loss badly and gracelessly so they must go all out to destroy the bitch that showed up their mindless puppet for the gormless spineless man he is.

  162. Möbius, it seems to be almost mathematical in it’s precision..the worse the Abbott stuff-up, the more effort needed by the media to come down hard on “the bitch”, and the more acid the attacks.

  163. My country is becoming a depressing place to be. Even if the libs lose the damage has been done. We now have the USA’s political culture and a divided, nasty population.

  164. seems to me that the rabble of the msm/lnp is panicking as the edifice of lies they so painstakingly have built crumbles.

    terrified of having to face an election on policy, their various plots to gain government for abbott have significant comedic value, were it not for the awful possibility of their success.

    i fear the engineering of a recession (eastern states as illustration) with the creation of a fascist state as an eventual goal.

    but i don’t think that will happen – abbott is becoming a liability where even elements of the msm are canvassing his unsuitability for power

  165. BMac, I’m afraid you might be right. In two short years Abbott and the media have irreparably damaged the political climate of this country.

    What Howard started, tentatively, Abbott has completed, ruthlessly and willingly.

  166. There I was just read’n through the chat, come across Iain ..*scroll* … ‘keeps read’n’.. you know the deal….. then I come across a “short” post by Iain, (WTF), with….. (now someone hold me up…) LINKS… IAIN PROVIDED AN ACTUAL LINK TO SOMETHING……. so I bit (happy Iain ) I’ll repeat Iains comment, but please NOTE (you too Iain) , that nobody has commented on any of the posts on that dubious site (Iain)…. a link to a site that no one bothers commenting on and this is your *back-up*, your *evidence*…… your a legend Iain……………….. no really :D

    Iain Hall August 20, 2012 @ 4:22 pm

    http://essentialvision.com.au/category/essentialreport

    This is evidence CU that Labor are doing worse in the polls than they were last time
    43 to 57

    http://essentialvision.com.au/category/essentialreport

  167. LOVO I noticed that as well, but I notice that the newspoll site has Lib at 53 Lab 47, but there based on an election were held on the 20 August 2012, but the election is not until the end of next year, the one poll that does count. and i know Iain will say something like, blah blah blah.

  168. iain@5:49 AM

    Likewise pterosaur’s stroke …………. that he is now successfully using as a shield

    iain@4:03 PM

    I make no allegations about you

    iain = liar QED :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

    Its always proper form to provide the entire quote or at least a link to its location especially when what you produce as evidence is a perfect example of selective quoting.

    No Paul I just call it as I see it with total honesty. Just because I see someone (like Bernie Banton) using the cards that they hold for a noble purpose does not make me wilfully blind to the psychological manipulation of the interpersonal transaction. Likewise pterosaur’s stroke and his subsequent recovery is clearly a story of great determination that he is now successfully using as a shield for what amounts quite reprehensible behaviour in the comment threads here.The difference between pterosaur and Mr Banton is that the later had a noble cause but the former is just channelling his inner totalitarian

    Ah now I have searched through the thread and found the source of your animus, Hmm well that could be read as an accusation if one has a persecution complex as you clearly seem to do. However you seem to be making the mistake of thinking that for you to be using your stroke as a shield requires you to say something along the lines of “I have had a stroke so give me the due deference afforded to the infirm” But the fact that others have shared your story does that by implication so my observation, in passing, that your medical condition affords you some protection from criticism when you behave badly does not constitute any sort of allegation. Its an observation of fact. and my claim that I make no allegations against you is therefore true.

    Look I can play semantics all day and we will probably never agree but can we just both try and play nice here?

    I can do it but can you?

  169. Notice everytime Abbott moves from three word slogans and stunts, he mucks it up.

    Everytime he attempts to deal with policy, he comes undone.

  170. After an initial frenzy of righteous tub-thumping and political blood lust – of the kind …………….especially reserved for political party rats – the Coalition’s enthusiasm for the hunt began to wane as more and more details emerged about Ashby, his possible motivations and dealings with senior Coalition figures such as Mal Brough and manager of Opposition business Christopher Pyne.

    And as more and more emails and text messages emerge as part of the ongoing legal process, the baying from the Opposition benches becomes ever more muted, even from the likes of Pyne.

    There are just too many fingerprints for anyone’s comfort it would seem.

    Which brings us to Larry Pickering, one of the more enduring and colourful characters on the (now fringes of) Australian political scene.

    Pickering came into his own in the 1970s as a cartoonist chronicling the travails of the Whitlam government, before retiring in 1980. He also ran unsuccessfully as a Liberal candidate for the federal seat of Fraser in the ACT in 1974.

    These days he is better known for a stint as a tomato grower and as something of a colourful Gold Coast racing identity behind some betting software.

    Most of his energy, though, is devoted to the Pickering Post, an internet newsletter purporting to chronicle our Prime Minister’s life and times of 17 years ago when she was with law firm Slater & Gordon, and some work she did for allegedly corrupt AWU leader (and then boyfriend) Bruce Wilson.

    As Pickering himself has conceded, he puts some “melodrama” into his episodes of “is our Prime Minister a crook?” To wit: “It was a warm Sunday morning in Fitzroy in late 1992. Bill Shorten and his lover Nicola Roxon had struggled out of bed late and were heading up Brunswick Street for breakfast when Bill noticed a couple they knew having coffee opposite …”

    More Mills & Boon than Woodward and Bernstein, then.

    Still, his ramblings of corruption and cover-ups clog the email boxes of thousands of like-minded conspiracy theorists, “Juliar” haters and others unfortunate enough to have the stuff forwarded to them unbidden…………..

    ..

    http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/national/comment-grubby-hands-are-throwing-the-political-mud/story-fndo45r1-1226454369126

  171. ……..As it turned out, the man at the centre of the scandal, Godwin Grech, eventually confessed to forging the incriminating emails.

    I’m not for a moment insinuating that Ashby’s material is anything other than the real McCoy, just pointing out that even the most damning-looking evidence does not always result in the accused being led off to the proverbial gallows.

    The same should hold true when it comes to the character assassination of Labor MP Craig Thomson (and yes, Fair Work Australia’s glacial investigations are as much to blame here as anything else), a man who also protests his innocence amid allegations of misusing union funds.

    The Opposition has used the controversy swirling around both men to press home their case that the Gillard Government is somehow illegitimate, and that the only principles it adheres to are those that enable it to cling to power.

    That claim of illegitimacy – and Tony Abbott’s contentions about the Prime Minister’s “integrity” – effectively rest on a presumption of guilt.

    Bear in mind, too, that it is infinitely easier to level an allegation – no matter how serious – than it is to defend oneself against the charges and emerge with a reputation intact.

    Both Slipper and Thomson may be as guilty as sin.

    I don’t know, and it is for neither you nor I to decide.

    I do know one thing, and that is guilt and culpability are not always proven.

    CONTACT PAUL SYVRET………….

    http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/opinion/no-time-to-sink-slipper/story-e6frerdf-1226336535964

  172. Not that it means much.

    Federal Labor is within six points of the coalition on a two-party preferred basis after gaining ground for the second successive Newspoll.

    Labor gained one point on the two-party preferred vote and now trails the coalition 53 per cent to 47, the poll published in The Australian shows.

    Labor’s primary vote rose two points to 35 per cent, according to the poll.

    The coalition’s primary vote remains steady on 45 per cent.

    Prime Minister Julia Gillard and Opposition Leader Tony Abbott are locked on 38 per cent each on the question of who would make a better prime minister.

    A month ago, Labor trailed by 12 points on a two-party preferred basis and had a primary vote of 28 per cent, two percentage points off its record low.

    http://bigpondnews.com/articles/TopStories/2012/08/21/Labor_gains_more_ground_in_Newspoll_785952.html

  173. JULIA Gillard has always said it would happen and it has – two months after the introduction of the carbon tax and the handing out of billions of dollars in carbon compensation Labor’s primary vote is improving.

    It’s still to early call it a trend, but for the second Newspoll survey in a row the ALP primary vote has risen and is now up seven percentage points since the introduction of the carbon tax on July 1. Two swallows still don’t make a summer, but they are a welcome sight for Labor MPs and especially the Prime Minister.

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/prime-minister-proved-right-on-soft-carbon-tax-landing/story-e6frg75f-1226454544154?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheAustralianOpinion+%28The+Australian+%7C+Opinion%29

  174. Jaw dropped in amazement this morning watching Seven early news when the story flashed up that there is a new twist in the Thompson affair in Kathy Jackson is being officially investigated.

    If this is so then well done Wixxy.

    Methinks an investigation into Jackson, her partner and the other connections to bring down a government will reveal an awful lot of mud.

  175. Since Tweed puts so much credence in polls as being the be all and end all on how good a government or leader is, and as Abbott is now equal with Gillard in the latest poll, surely this must mean he thinks Abbott is as bad as he states Gillard is?

    We all know that Abbott is much worse and is only in the position he’s in because the media refuse to hold him to any form of account or standard for his constant stream of lies, negativity formed on no basis of reality and brain farts, of which he had another doozy yesterday.

    Abbott is currently backtracking a thousand kilometers an hour over his statement yesterday that wealthy private schools are hard done by. The massive backlash over that on the Twitterverse alone was something to behold.

    Abbott is now saying that is not what he meant to say at all. In other words he’s admitted to a massive brain fart he couldn’t hold in. We know that he actually means it and if in power will no doubt slash and burn public education, allowing private companies like McDonalds to advertise and run programs in them whilst changing the SES formula as Howard did twice to greatly advantage the wealthy private schools.

  176. Notice everytime Abbott moves from three word slogans and stunts, he mucks it up.

    The most gormless loser ever to have been elected to lead a ‘mainstream’ party.

  177. He’s an employer and wants nothing more than to rip off his employees.

    An ex-employee of Slater and Gordon is the only one making claims on which the entire right wing and hanging everything on. No one else is backing up his claim and certainly not the law firm itself.

    It’s smear scaper nothing else and is proving to be smear as the people behind it are being revealed. This will go the way of Slipper and Thompson, and in the case of Thomson the smearer are beginning to be investigated.

    You fell for the smear hook line and sinker in your eagerness to put the boot into Gillard and big note yourself. It’s not the first time you have done this, and now you desperately cling onto every little morsel in the hope you can brag, but you will quickly change tact and even fade for a bit when it’s shown for the bull it is.

    Methinks the last laugh will be on you.

    PS. Note that this came out in the lead up to the latest polls. Without fail every time the polls go south for Abbott out comes a smear or an attack on Gillard. Every single time.

  178. He’s an employer and wants nothing more than to rip off his employees.

    Then his relatives and neighbours who are EMPLOYEES will be ripped off under the Liberals and HE KNOWS it.

    He’s voting to rip others off and for others to BE ripped off.

    The rip-off Liberals. Miserable Liberals.

    Better hope there’s no such thing as karma, scraper… dot dot dot.

  179. Still sticking to the Workchoices bullshit I see…because that is all you have! I’m an employer? I’ve stated before that I don’t have any employees but in your collective group think “you lot” overlook that fact.

    Talk about denial, there is more to come out yet and now it has gone mainstream Gillard can’t shut all the media down. Nothing better than beating Labor over the head with their own club!

  180. Yep, Gillard is despicable!

    Right-Wing Projection. These morons just can’t help themselves.

    Right-Wing Projection: The political tactic whereby right wingers accuse their opponents of what they themselves (RWFs) do.

  181. According to Abbott, Labor dealing with the inequity in education is a sign of desperation. Just like making a fairer subtest for the disabled.

    it is not a matter of not affording. For the good of the nation, the money has to be found. The nation cannot afford not to spend money in these areas.

    What is wrong with basing what you spend on need.

    Of course Mr. Abbott, by what he said yesterday, it is the Independents schools that are in need.

    An aside. The countries we compare ourselves with, find ourselves wanting. all have only state systems. They do not have, or maybe just do not fund a private system.

  182. because that is all you have

    I AGREE!!

    Imagine though if they had something else. Like, oh, I don’t know, a Paid Parenting Scheme, NDIS, Gonski, a Carbon Price, Plain Packaging, an IR regime that has seen our nation lead the world in job creation, steered us through the GFC, and returned the budget to surplus.

    If only ;).

  183. Lawyers for the AWU at the time have also said there is no connection between the PM and Wilson.

  184. Tom they also called Ashby heroic and now the Gordon and Slater supposed whistle blower.

    Is there a pattern here?

  185. The Industrial Relations Court, an internal investigation by Slater and Gordon and a couple of investigations by police all cleared Gillard, yet the oo (and scaper) are pushing a line based on what? That the firm “took a very serious view” of the matter? 17 years ago?

    Yet Gillard is still a respected and welcome personage at the firm?

    The far right have scraped the barrel dry, and are now picking up entrails that spilt over the side. It would be humorous to watch, if it didn’t reflect so poorly on our national debate.

    It looks more like a murdoch swan song than any real journalism.

  186. Report this morning saying that by next year there will be over thirty countries with some form of carbon pricing in place effecting over 850 million people. Because of this renewable energy is becoming cheaper worldwide whilst non-renewable energies continue to become dearer.

  187. Is there a pattern here?

    Yea, they appear to have a real talent with picking the wrong nag :lol:

    gretch, jackson, ashby, blewitt. They all turn out to be class acts.

  188. Cu and “..just do not fund a private system.” Such as the USA, due to the separation of church and state under their Constitution. It should be the same in Australia.

  189. This one is difficult to locate via the Courier Mail online, so thanks to Staffy for the link.. However, the fact that this has appeared in the Courier Mail at all leaves me somewhat astounded..

    Noted on this article is that comments have been suspended due to legal concerns.

    LARRY Pickering. James Ashby. Godwin Grech.

    Think about these three names for a second and then tell me if you can see a link, a pattern perchance?

    And…

    It is, at the end of the day, a lot of spooky music without the monsters. Slater & Gordon issued a statement at the weekend clearing Julia Gillard of any wrongdoing at the firm and her critics, when challenged, can lay no specific charge or allegation beyond guilt by association with someone who himself has never even been charged with any wrongdoing.

    Apparently this all still somehow goes to the “character” of our Prime Minister but, for me, it says more about the character of those hurling the mud than their target.

    And if we want to talk character, integrity and ancient history, then what of the indecent assault charges Abbott faced (and which were dismissed) during his student years, something our aspiring PM dismisses as “part of the Abbott story – it is not part of the Abbott present”.

    A bit like the vandalism incident in which Abbott, celebrating the end of exams, was dared to bend a street sign over and duly did, resulting in an offence proven but no conviction recorded.

    But it would be grubby to dredge up old and unsubstantiated smears of decades past like that purely to smear a political opponent wouldn’t it?

    http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/opinion/comment-grubby-hands-are-throwing-the-political-mud/story-e6frerc6-1226454369126

  190. And the Liberals are starting them young. It really is a decrepit rotten to the core party that cannot win anything on merit, credibility or on its own moral standing.

    Student union skullduggery

    They start producing the Tony Abbott’s of Australian politics young.

    Look up Alex Hawke and his role in NSW Liberal branch stacking, blank ballot rigging and the hard religious right to see what I mean.

  191. Listening to ABC Business from last night. Bluescope Steel are saying with restructuring, they have turned the corner.

    They see access to credit for business as being the main thing.

    They have moved their focus to the domestic market.

    The so call carbon tax does not appear to be worrying them, as they are saying they can do much to lower their power costs.

    In other words, it has nothing to do with taxes or wages. It has to do with being more clever.

    Noting their major restructuring is complete.

  192. Is it curious that the libs themselves are steering clear of this in Parliament?

    I wonder why that would be?

    Just let their media mates run the interference, and keep their hands clean.

  193. Yes Cu it’s incongruous and damning on the lies peddled by Abbott and the Liberals that major businesses they said would collapse or be negatively effected by the carbon tax are planning expansions, increased local investment and improved outlooks going ahead.

  194. Oh FFS. I won’t go there and Tweed will probably be in this camp, but I just read that Bolt commentators are going apeshit as they believe there’s a conspiracy going on between Newspoll and Labor.

    And who said we lived in an alternate reality?

  195. One thing missing from yesterday, including the Liberal site, is a recording of Abbott’s speech to the Independents school principals

    Got a nice email from Tony this morning, telling me how he is taking us back to the golden age..

  196. Tom, I would be a cynic and say that they did not only back these people, but created the scandals they are pursuing.

    The problem for them,. the stunts are backfiring at a fast rate.

  197. Labor strategists believe Mr Abbott becomes accident prone under pressure and were buoyed yesterday when he became the first opposition leader since John Howard, 26 years ago, to be thrown out of Parliament. It is believed today’s Newspoll would show Labor’s primary vote is holding up after a five-point surge a fortnight ago.
    He had accused Ms Gillard of lying in a response to a carbon price question and failed to withdraw without qualification when ordered to do so. He had flouted several similar warnings last week.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/school-blue-sees-abbott-scramble-20120820-24irj.html#ixzz248hoTLk4

    Min, it is a little worrying when one says with pride, that they have the experience, because they have on the Opposition front bench, sixteen MPs from a government that was tossed out in 2007.

    There have been two governments since that time. There has been a GFC. The world has changed dramatically. None of this seem to have come to Mr. Abbott’s noticed.

  198. Min, I intend to be too busy living to enter one of those.

    They scare the daylights out of me.

    I say this,, having worked in the field. At the expensive end at that.

    Come to think about it, they only exist for the wealthy.

  199. Golden age is an attempt at rewriting history, something else the Liberals often do, whilst projecting that their rewrite of actuality is a Labor rewrite of history.

    Problem might be that too many, especially in the mortgage belt and Howard’s battlers, will not remember it being anything near a golden age under Howard as they struggled with an ever growing personal debt and no savings, a debt Costello himself stated was totally unsustainable.

  200. Cu

    The problem for them,. the stunts are backfiring at a fast rate

    . Too true :lol:

    the lnp conservativesmob of far right extremists, wish to run our country, but are careless of the consequences to society our legal system, and parliament , and remain unable to articulate an alternative vision, or even manage a conspiracy properlyeffectively despite the msm feverishly working in their favour.

    Their general ineptitude would be laughable, as fiction, but as reality is more concerning as they strive to erode the principles underpinning society in their obsession with power.

  201. Good point made by Plibersek. Abbott never had any problems with speakers Slipper, who he thought a rat, and Jenkins, who he respected, but has a problem with a female speaker, so it’s his problem with women.

    Abbott already has a low opinion with significant percentage of women voters and is going out of his way to alienate those that aren’t pissed off with him, and that’s 51% of the voting population.

  202. Hockey: “We have found all our savings and we have all our policies, we are ready to roll if an election is called tomorrow.”

    Hahaha. Nobody asked him to show them his savings and policies, I think that would of had him running away faster than Abbott.

  203. From your link ME

    THE carbon price puts Australia, the world’s 15th-biggest emitter of greenhouse gases, in the middle of the international pack when it comes to dealing with global warming, a major new report by the Climate Commission says.

    But don’t we keep getting told that ours is way too high?

  204. Yes Tom. We have the HIGHEST price in the world, which came not long after we being the ONLY country in the world with a carbon price.

    They just make everything up as they go and if it weren’t for the media they would have been out on their arses a long time ago.

  205. Hundreds of thousands of German troops froze to death in Russia in the 1940s. It has never happened since. Further evidence indeed that the planet is warming.

  206. Pingback: ”So there is no question of injustice to public schools here. If anything, the injustice is the other way.” | Iain Hall's SANDPIT

  207. Roswell @ 12:02 pm

    Hundreds of thousands of German troops froze to death in Russia in the 1940s. It has never happened since. Further evidence indeed that the planet is warming.

    Ah Roswell its sad to see that you understand so little about the history of WW2. The reasons that so many German troops died on the eastern front are many but among the big ones was the simple fact that they were very badly equipped to cope with the Russian winter, they were only dressed in summer uniforms because they believed that the same Blitzkrieg that had won the victory elsewhere in Europe would see then rapidly defeat Stalin in the summer time. Further their supply lines hopelessly stretched and their expectation that their troops would be able to forage from the countryside was thwarted by the Russian scorched earth retreat. They made precisely the same mistake that Bonaparte made in 1812 and they paid the same price in blood.
    To suggest that the German failure on the eastern front is in any way a proof of climate change is so silly and so wrong that you should immediately recant and concede that it proves no such thing at all.

  208. You gotta laugh at this one.

    The day after Hockey saying, “We have found all our savings and we have all our policies, we are ready to roll if an election is called tomorrow.” Hockey on Twitter changed his tune and now won’t reveal their budget cuts until after an election for a Newman style bullshit Audit Commission.

    Newman, back peddling a thousand kilometers an hour at the moment, apologised in parliament for his $100 billion deficit lieerror said it was actually $65 billion, which is still a great big lie and not the figure he’s given overseas investors and organisations.

    Hockey has apparently lined up a retired bookkeeper as the last lot he used got done for misconduct doing what he told them to. At least a retired accountant can’t lose a practice or have a company he hasn’t got fined.

    Honestly, why would you vote for these clowns, and if you were truly a honest and forthright person why would you support them?

  209. Actually I just had a thought on Newman’s apology in Queensland parliament over the $100 billion lieerror.

    In saying there was an error and apologising for that error with the figure now being $65 billion, isn’t he actually admitting that Peter Costello made a mistake to the tune of $35 billion, which is what some economic commentators have been saying, but they have a much larger figure for the error.

    So you really have to wonder if Costello couldn’t get a State audit right to at least the admitted error of $35 billion then just how screwed up were his figures during 10½ years as Treasurer of the nation?

  210. TONY Abbott yesterday reiterated his belief that public schools were not short-changed under current funding arrangements, yet maintained support for the system that he described as unjust to private schools.

    The opposition was forced to promise no school would be worse off under a Coalition government after Julia Gillard construed the Opposition Leader’s comments to an independent schools forum on Monday as an intention to cut funding to government schools.

    http://www.news.com.au/national/theyre-out-to-get-pm-says-her-ex-union-lover/story-fncynjr2-1226455274192

    Clever answer. Abbott will leave the system as it is, with it’s built in inequalities.

    What Abbott will not do is increase money, especially to public schools. He has said he believes they already get too much.

    The PM is talking about reforming the whole funding system, to ensure the the needs of those with the greatest needs are met.

    Abbot and Pyne do not believe these kids exist.

  211. CU

    What Abbott will not do is increase money, especially to public schools. He has said he believes they already get too much.

    !hat is an outright lie or at best a misrepresentation of what he said on the matter.

  212. Cu, plus Pyne has already set the scene for a reduction in funding stating that his government will be offloading considerable numbers of “non-performing” teachers. School closures anyone?

  213. Where is the lie. The Opposition have said there is no inequity. The Opposition has said that they will remain with the present system. The Opposition has not said they will increase funding.

    Pyne has said there is no inequity. Mr Pyne has said that increasing class sizes was a waste of money.

    Mr Abbott has said that it is the Independent schools that have been dudded, not the private.

    Therefore, why would one not deduct, that they have no intention of increasing money to any schools. One could further deduct, that there might be less for the public system, as it is clear they see that as being the responsibility of the states.

    The Opposition reject the Gonski report in full and question the grounds it is based on.

    Sorry, no lies here.

    Please explain wht one would believe otherwise.

  214. I heard a comment last night, could have been the Drum.

    The person said he did not know if Abbott had a problem with woman, but he is sure he has a problem with anyone in authority.

    Main indicator of Oppositional Disorder, that one usually finds in children, and young ones at that.

  215. “Newman, back peddling a thousand kilometers an hour at the moment, apologised in parliament for his $100 billion deficit lieerror said it was actually $65 billion, which is still a great big lie and not the figure he’s given overseas investors and organisations.”

    Surprise that Costello still got it wrong, after developing his own rules for his budget projects. If he used the normal, the ones that all other used, rules, the answer would be entirely different. With Costello, one has to remember one is comparing apple with oranges., Maybe we should say, apples with pineapples.

  216. I forgot to add to the comment about what Mr. Abbott and the Opposition has said about their reaction to the Gonski report, what I have repeated is all lies.

    Must be true they are lies, as I have only repeated words that came from their own mouths.

    It is a lie he is going to cut money. It is a lie he thinks that it is the independent schools that are missing out.

    I am very confused about what Mr. Abbott believes are the lies. There is definitely difference in what the Coalition is saying.

  217. THE Coalition has backed away from suggestions private schools are hard done by, with opposition education spokesman, Christopher Pyne, denying the current level of funding for independent schools was an injustice.
    The Opposition Leader, Tony Abbott, created a furore when he contradicted the findings of the Gonski education review and said there was ”no question” that the generosity of public school funding was an ”injustice” compared with government funding for private schools. The Coalition yesterday went into damage control, issuing a statement pledging ”across the board increases for schools” and guaranteeing that no school would be worse off.
    ”Of course not,” Mr Pyne said, when asked if the current level of funding for independent schools was an injustice. ”The current level of funding for independent schools and government schools is appropriate.”
    He said Mr Abbott had simply been referring to the ”myth” created by the unions, the left and the Labor party that ”somehow public schools are short-changed by governments when clearly they are not”.
    Advertisement
    The Gonski review recommended the bulk of any funding increase flow to state schools, because they educate a disproportionate number of disadvantaged students.
    The Coalition has pledged to maintain the existing funding model and 6 per cent annual indexation, which equates to an extra $4.2 billion between 2014 and 2017.
    The federal government is expected to commit an extra $3 billion a year over the same period.
    The Australian Education Union president, Angelo Gavrielatos, said to ensure no school would be worse off the Coalition would have to significantly increase recurrent funding for public schools.
    ”It is clear Tony Abbott is in damage control after yesterday railing against the injustice of what he believes is the overfunding of public schools,” he said.
    The Gonski report described the current funding model as ”unnecessarily complex” and lacking in coherence and transparency.
    But Mr Pyne said the Gonski report was itself overly complex, and claimed it had been written to please the government.
    ”The current model is the simplest model that’s been devised in spending by the Commonwealth by schools since the Second World War,” he said.
    The executive director of Catholic Education, Stephen Elder, said he welcomed the Coalition’s commitment to increase funding to all schools.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/coalition-backdown-on-school-funding-20120821-24kqy.html#ixzz24EVaCDug

  218. Pyne, I notice, finds the report too complex. If this is true, why did he rush out when it was first released, making comments, that they are now back peddling on.

    Advice for the Coalition. Read before opening mouths. Ensure that it has what you believe it does.

    In other words, reply to what is written or said. Not to what you believe is going to be revealed.

  219. The executive director of Catholic Education, Stephen Elder, said he welcomed the Coalition’s commitment to increase funding to all schools.

    Has someone told Elder that Hockey has said he already has found his savings, that’s $50 billion out of the $74 billion that needs to be found, that the $50 billion is a very rubbery and discredited figure and now he’s saying the Coalition is going to increase funding with money they haven’t got and haven’t a hope in hell of finding?

    Has anyone also told Elder that the Coalition plan to have a Newman style Audit Commission when they get into government, and Newman slashed funding to education?

    Has anyone told Elder that the Coalition is planning on handing over health and education to the States, the same States they said stuffed up the BER and couldn’t be trusted to handle major projects?

  220. Catching up @ 10:38 am

    Where is the lie. The Opposition have said there is no inequity. The Opposition has said that they will remain with the present system. The Opposition has not said they will increase funding.

    The line of yours that I cited was this one:

    What Abbott will not do is increase money, especially to public schools. He has said he believes they already get too much.

    The part in bold forms the basis of my criticism. Its a big leap of logic to claim that this comment from Tony Abbott:

    ”Overall, the 66 per cent of Australian school students who attend public schools get 79 per cent of government funding,” he said. ”The 34 per cent of Australians who attend independent schools get just 21 per cent of government funding.

    ”So there is no question of injustice to public schools here. If anything, the injustice is the other way.”

    Tony Abbott

    means that he wants to cut funding to any school public or private which is how you erroneously read it. Either you are doing it deliberately which would be a Lie or you are in error, the one thing that you certainly are is incorrect.

    What Abbott will not do is increase money, especially to public schools. He has said he believes they already get too much.

    He says NO such thing at all, he says that they currently get more than the private schools per student you are implying that means that he wants them to have less in the future.

    Pyne has said there is no inequity. Mr Pyne has said that increasing class sizes was a waste of money.

    I’m sure that Pyne did not say that increasing” class sizes was a waste of money

    Mr Abbott has said that it is the Independent schools that have been dudded, not the private.

    The independent schools ARE the private schools CU

    Therefore, why would one not deduct, that they have no intention of increasing money to any schools. One could further deduct, that there might be less for the public system, as it is clear they see that as being the responsibility of the states.

    deduce all you want C U but if you don’t have the evidence then all you are doing is building a dodgy house of cards on the shifting sands of assumption and speculation

    The Opposition reject the Gonski report in full and question the grounds it is based on.

    Just because some “expert” writes a report does not make their pronouncement gospel as any exploration of the parliamentary library would demonstrate.

    Sorry, no lies here.

    I’ll be kind and suggest that your confirmation bias has caused you to misrepresent what was Said instead then

    Please explain wht one would believe otherwise.

    I think that this comment does just that

  221. Sorry, Pyne said on the day it was first released, that there was no inequity. He said at the same time, lowering class sizes was a waste of money.

    He denied that the environment the kids come from did mattered. He went onto say it was the parents fault if kids did not learn. That was after, he blamed the teachers.

    I seem to remember we discussed these matters on that day.

  222. “The independent schools ARE the private schools CU”

    That I am aware of. When did I say anything different.

    Yes Mr. Pyne did say that lowering class sizes was a waste and did not lead to better education.

    I do not seem to be alone in my beliefs. There is much, even in the MSM saying what I have.

    He may have misspoke, or I believe accidentally the truth, and is now back tracking.

  223. When it comes to Pyne I reckon all the viewers/listeners here is:

    WHINE WHINE WHINE YAP YAP YAP MOAN MOAN MOAN YAP YAP YAP I’M UP MYSELF I’M UP MYSELF I’M UP MYSELF YAP YAP YAP ME PRAT ME PRAT ME PRAT YAP YAP YAP CUT HORRID STATE SCHOOL FUNDING CUT HORRID STATE SCHOOL FUNDING CUT HORRID STATE SCHOOL FUNDING YAP YAP YAP LOVE MYSELF LOVE MYSELF LOVE MYSELF YAP YAP YAP WHY DON’T YOU LIKE ME WHY DON’T YOU LIKE ME WHY DON’T YOU LIKE ME YAP YAP YAP ME ELITIST ME ELITIST ELITIST YAP YAP YAP HAVING A BAD HAIR DAY HAVING A BAD HAIR DAY HAVING A BAD HAIR DAY YAP YAP YAP

  224. It was close enough to dark humour. A bit like saying that all the supervisors who worked on the construction of the Sydney Harbour Bridge are now dead, therefore supervising bridge building is dangerous. Get my drift?

  225. Iain u still have not answered a question from the other day.

    Iain how about you give us a good reason as to why people should vote for the coalition, how about policies, instead of the usual rubbish from the LNP, we will release our policies before the election, they have continually called for an election but no policies. The ALP do not fear TA, he has said nothing constructive for two years, except three word slogans and NO NO NO.

  226. CU
    You said this:
    Mr Abbott has said that it is the Independent schools that have been dudded, not the private.

    Read it carefully and you should understand why I said this in response:
    “The independent schools ARE the private schools CU”

  227. nasking, my daughter when young had a silky terrier, that drove us mad, with it’s yapping, that at times. sounded like a baby crying. When Pyne speaks, one gets the impression he is close to tears. he look on his face, backs up this impression.

  228. Sorry, I meant public. I assume that you also know that was a mistake. Clever of you to point it out, in such a devious way. One up for you. That should make you feel better.

  229. Some work hard to attract people to their own sites.

    Does not appear to be having much success.

    PS Did not notice any visitors stats on site.

  230. 53 thousand or more NZ this year. What does this do to our migration figures. makes the unemployment figures look better, I would say.

  231. news Malcolm Turnbull has over the past 24 hours appeared to make a number of misleading statements regarding the cost of and financial details involved in constructing the National Broadband Network, in what appeared to be an attempt by the Shadow Communications Minister to demonstrate the Coalition’s own rival plan would save tens of billions of dollars.

    In several articles and interviews this week, Turnbull alleged that the Coalition’s rival NBN plan — which has not yet been fully revealed, but focuses on fibre to the node technology, as opposed to the fibre to the home technology being deployed by NBN Co under the current Labor plan — would see broadband deployed “sooner, cheaper and more affordably for users”.

    “Our broadband policy is to complete the national broadband network, but to do so sooner, cheaper – less cost to the taxpayer – and much more affordably for consumers and that is our plan,” Turnbull said on the ABC’s Lateline program last night. “So we will complete the NBN, all Australians will have access to very fast broadband, but because we’ll use a mix of technologies and use the most cost-effective ones where appropriate, we will be able to do it sooner, cheaper and more affordably.”

    Turnbull also made the same argument in an earlier response to several articles by high-profile business and financial commentator Alan Kohler, who has heavily criticised the Coalition’s NBN policy on his site Business Spectator this week.

    http://delimiter.com.au/2012/08/22/turnbull-factually-inaccurate-on-nbn-costs/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Delimiter+%28Delimiter%29

  232. I’m off to Pick up my son CU back in half an hour but if you wnat to know my stats thus far I have had 902,849 hits on my blog at its WP incarnation, I’ll answer the other comments directed at me when I get back

  233. Catching up 1:43 pm

    Sorry, I meant public. I assume that you also know that was a mistake. Clever of you to point it out, in such a devious way. One up for you. That should make you feel better.

    Yes I though that was what you meant but I could not resist teh temptation that you so kindly left in may path :evil: :evil:

    Catching up @ 1:46 pm

    Some work hard to attract people to their own sites.

    Not really CU but I don’t believe in hiding my light under a bushel either

    Does not appear to be having much success.

    PS Did not notice any visitors stats on site.

    I used to have the site stats widget enabled up until I last gave may blog a makeover and then I decided taht there is a virtue in being modest about may blog traffic. Looking forward to getting to a million page views in the not too distant future though :grin:

    paulwello @ 1:58 pm

    Iain, make your comments here, or are u running away like your hero

    Whay are you too scared that you might catch a dose of conservatism if you read pieces at my blog?
    Besides which I don’t think that Migs would appreciate me posting great slabs of my own blog into the comemnts threads here. The search function works well enough at the Sandpit so put in a topic like say “asylum seekers” or “climate change” and you will get plenty of reasons not to vote Labor

  234. deduce all you want C U but if you don’t have the evidence then all you are doing is building a dodgy house of cards on the shifting sands of assumption and speculation

    Excellent demonstration of right-wing projection there Iain – really well done!

  235. Tony and Co out gloating that the Olympus Dam is not going ahead in full.

    PS. Have not listened to the details.

  236. HP Billiton chief executive Marius Kloppers said current market conditions, including subdued commodity prices and higher capital costs, had led to the decision.

    UPDATE

    BHP Billiton:
    BHP Billiton CEO, Marius Kloppers, said current market conditions, including subdued commodity prices and higher capital costs, had led to the decision…

  237. In an article in today’s Australian Financial Review, Shadow Finance Minister Andrew Robb revealed Coalition plans to “outsource” key programs to state bureaucracies.

    The Coalition announced 12,000 local job cuts at the last election. Since then, we’ve seen that number rise to 20,000 job cuts.

    This is nothing new for the Coalition. Before the 1996 election, the Coalition said they would cut 2500 jobs. After winning office, more than 30,000 public servants lost their jobs.

    The Opposition’s new policy, revealed in the AFR, will see the Commonwealth vacating the field in important areas such as health and education.

    Commonwealth public servants provide important advice on big issues affecting our whole nation. Outsourcing this advice will see an increase in confusion for businesses and families with different systems in different states.

    Slashing public service jobs in Canberra will affect the entire Canberra economy. In 1996-97, the impact of the Howard Government’s job cuts was to:

    • Slash $25,000 from the price of the average Canberra home (in an era when house prices were much lower than they are today);
    • Increase the ACT unemployment rate by 1 percentage point; and
    • Increase personal bankruptcies in the ACT by around 100 bankruptcies per year.

    Unlike the Liberals, we believe that a strong public service is essential to support the community and deliver critical government programs.

    http://www.andrewleigh.com/blog/?p=3101

  238. Prices softening. I suppose this is the PM’s fault. Abbott seems to think so, he cannot help himself with the gloating.

    It doesn’t really make a lot of sense in this market for them to be engaging in a major capital spending program and to be bringing more supply onto the market in a time when prices are softening,” said Gavin Wendt, publisher of resources newsletter Mine Life.
    “The deposit isn’t going anywhere and this decision gives them the sort of flexibility down the track to expand,” he said. “In this environment it makes sense to maintain the status quo.”..

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/business/mining-and-resources/bhp-mothballs-olympic-dam-expansion-20120822-24m4i.html#ixzz24Fus7gh2

  239. I based it on facts. No house of cards in sight.

    Yes CU, unlike Iain, who wouldn’t know a fact if it hit him in the face like a wet fish :lol:

    Just for Iain’s edification
    Fact
    Noun:
    A thing that is indisputably the case.

    Opinion
    Noun:
    A view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.

    Iain’s posts consist of 99.98% opinion, 0.02% fact…

  240. Iain again, when you ask him for links to back up his opinions, they all lead back to his site, more opinions and no facts.

  241. Abbott once again in his glory talking the economy down the rconomy.

    Ignore the fact that the company said it was slower prices and cost of capital that led to the postponement.

    Forget the fact neither the MRRT and carbon tax has nothing to do with this project.

    Company blaming market conditions. Abbott the mining and carbon tax that is working like a wrecking ball….

    Once again, a outpouring of lies and milking a bad incident. I believe this man would take advantage of any tragedy to get his point across.

  242. Bacchus @ 4:08 pm


    deduce all you want C U but if you don’t have the evidence then all you are doing is building a dodgy house of cards on the shifting sands of assumption and speculation

    Excellent demonstration of right-wing projection there Iain – really well done!

    No just an observation on the way that C U (among others) takes something that Tony Abbott says and then based on faulty readings of that statement they build up a very shallow case about how it has the most dire and desperate consequences for the country. Its a classic case of shit assumptions in equals crappy argument out.
    Catching up@ 4:42 pm

    Bacchus, problem is, I based it on facts. No house of cards in sight.

    No you based it upon a faulty reading of his meaning in the quote I cited earlier and then you just ran hot on your interpretation even though it was nit supported by the text,

    Bacchus @ 5:17 pm

    I based it on facts. No house of cards in sight.

    Yes CU, unlike Iain, who wouldn’t know a fact if it hit him in the face like a wet fish :lol:

    What part of Tony Abbots speech supports your claim that the coalition wants to slash funding to public schools?

    That should be easy enough for you to find if you claim is actaully based on facts.

    Iain’s posts consist of 99.98% opinion, 0.02% fact…

    Well even it that were true (which it isn’t) that would make me orders of magnitude more factual that CU.

  243. I do not rely on reports of what was sad. I heard the Pyne interview as he was being interviewed.

    That is what was said, and has been reported by many since.

    We wrote about it at the time on this site.

    I will challenge you to prove he and Abbott did not say what I said they did.

    For some unknown reason, even on Abbott’s site, have not been able to get a copy on the address to the Independent Principals gathering. I have posted the PM’s address at the same event.

  244. 0.02% is the impact of the Carbon Price on electricity prices.

    Abbott caught out in a direct lie yet again and thank god the news are reporting it as that.

    Abbott with an army of minders behind him, it looked utterly ridiculous, said the cancellation of Olympic Dam expansion was because of the MRRT and the Carbon Price.

    BHP has come out and contradicted Abbott’s blatant lie and said the MRRT didn’t apply to Olympic Dam and the Carbon Price was not mentioned in their report as it had no impact on the decision.

    The news bulletins have highlighted Abbott’s bull for the shit it is.

    Tides a turning so now I know why the right wingers are getting so shrill and uppity whilst spruiking greater unadulterated nonsense than normal. They are doing everything in their narrow ideological bag of dissimulations to stick up for their failing gormless hero, and it’s a losing cause. Channel Ten’s Project attempted an Abbott rescue attempting to paint him as a woman friendly man. Also a big fail.

  245. The Opposition’s education spokesman, Christopher Pyne, has already let the cat out of the bag when it comes to the Coalition’s plans to reduce teacher numbers and squeeze more kids into our classrooms.

    STEVE CANNANE: So you made the point that you think we’ve been wasting money by reducing class sizes.

    CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Sure.

    (LATELINE – 16 JULY 2012)

    Mr Garrett said the Opposition is continuing to ignore the overwhelming view of education experts that the current school funding system needs an overhaul.

    “Christopher Pyne rejected the independent review of school funding 20 minutes after it was released, without having read it. And he has confirmed the Coalition will repeal any school funding legislation before they’ve even seen the details,” he said.

  246. CU
    The goal posts are what TONY ABBOTT said at the speech in question not some grab bag of other statements that you can cherry pick from. That speech inspired the loopy piece in Fairfax.

  247. Mobius, as stated by BHP Billiton the decision not to go ahead with the Olympic Dam expansion is due to prices “softening”. Billiton were also having problems with fulfilling it’s cultural obligations to the original owners.

  248. I listen to the speech. It was one of the worse I have heard him make. He was all over the place in it.

    Yes, he did say the things that it is reported he did,

    Look at the comments above. Further proof.

    Give up on this, as you are plain wrong.

  249. So Bacchus and other that suffer from the same complaint, we are now guilty of faulty readings of statements from Pyne and Abbott.

    it is a shame, we cannot read into the statements that our visitor believes we should.

    When a man says the lowering classes sizes is a waste of money, that there is no inequities, environment does not count and parents are to blame for their kids failure, I find it impossible to read any other meaning into what they say.

    When a Opposition leader says it is the public schools that get more than their share. I see this as saying private schools are badly done by.

    When a leader says there is nothing wrong with the present system, which is seen as being unfair, how can we believe the state schools will be better under his rule.

  250. I have no problem with someone wanting to send thier kid to a private school,…. so long as THEY pay for it….mm!!! If they don’t want to PAY for IT, then how lucky are they that HERE in AUSTRALIA we have a ( :lol: basically) free school system, if you dont want to send your little bundle(s) to a public school you don’t have to….. your choice,so long as YOU pay, Why should ‘I’ have too, when ‘I’ already have paid for the provision of the public school sector……. go BLUDGE on someone else…pay your OWN way……something the “I’ve got a subsidised life, sshh”. dont WANT to do…MMM!!!! If the private school sector cant compete, cant make it…. well, then MARKET FORCES would come into play…..and Mummsie and Daddsie would pay thier way or be faced with the indignity of sending thier ‘more’ betterer to a poxy public school…… Private schoolfunding is a Toxic Tax, an unfair imposition on the ordinary tax payer… its time for the private school BUSINESSES to recognise that …. if you can’t compete then I guess ‘youse’ can always blame it on the Carbon Price…….(oops , did I say Price,.. can;t half tell I did’nt go to a private,-tax-payer-subsidised-,school….ay. :D )

  251. Let’s not beat about the bush. Tony Abbott tells lies. So what? Is there anything surprising about that? After all, he’s a politician.
    But it needs to be pointed out because the central message from Abbott supporters is that the prime minister is the liar – Ju-liar, in fact, according to the likes of Alan Jones. The opposition leader is portrayed, and portrays himself, as the epitomy of honesty. A man whose word can always be trusted.


    Burying the truth under a 100 tonne pile of rubble…

    http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/have-you-heard-the-one-about-the-politician-who-lies/

  252. Abbott’s most serious error came at an education forum, after he’d accused Gillard, despite her denials, of having a hit list of private schools that would lose funding under a proposed government blueprint.

    He pointed out that more state and federal funding goes to public school pupils than to those in the private education sector and said: “There is no question of injustice to public schools here. If anything, the injustice is the other way.”

    In case anyone missed it, the opposition leader repeated the line about private schools possibly suffering an injustice. He had left himself wide-open. But he squealed with outrage when Gillard used the comment to accuse him of believing public schools got too much money and should have their funding trimmed.

    Signif..

    http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/have-you-heard-the-one-about-the-politician-who-lies/

  253. Abbott had claimed for days that this was an important matter and Gillard had questions to answer. Then he had to admit yesterday morning he had not bothered to watch the news conference right through or even to read the transcript.

    Being less than obsessive in his approach to the truth is not Abbott’s only shortcoming. His strength is the sweeping statement and going for the political jugular – not getting into the detail of issues and doing the hard yards.

    http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/have-you-heard-the-one-about-the-politician-who-lies/

  254. Not only that Min they must take the under performing students, the ones the private schools getting vast amounts of public money reject or eject.

    That might sound like the public system is being forced but many public schools openly embrace slow learners and under achievers as a challenge to improvement, even if this means more time and resources must be utilised on them. This is something many private schools wouldn’t contemplate and is the reason that a significant number of private school students receive extracurricular private tutoring at great expense to the family.

  255. They take all the naughty kids, the ones that do not want to be at school as well.

    Looking at yesterdays Lyndal Curtis, Capital Hill, special edition, ABC24, with Bowen and Sinodinos.

    Are the politicians talking more and saying less. That is the question that is the question Lyndal is asking.

    Worth a watch.

  256. Opposition Leader Tony Abbott yesterday tried to kick along allegations she acted unethically when she helped set up a union fund for a former boyfriend 20 years ago, despite her detailed denial. He did not raise any specific questions about Ms Gillard’s statement, but said she could not be believed on anything.

    Former magazine editor Ita Buttrose yesterday called on women to object to unreasonable personal criticism of the PM. She said it was unacceptable for Ms Gillard’s body shape, eating habits, fashion and reproductive choices to be open for public scrutiny.

    http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/galaxy-poll-sees-federal-labor-support-jump-seven-points-in-queensland/story-e6freon6-1226457731449

  257. Tony’s complaint of the government telling lies about the Opposition, os laughable. The comedy goes on. (Tasman Address to Libs.)

    Still spending his time talking economy down

    Those glasses does little for his image.

  258. You know if someone was saying this about Julia Gillard everyone would be up in arms. I do not actively support either side of politics, I tend to judge based on which side I feel makes the best decisions. The Gillard government has thrown Australia into a huge deficit and is still talking about spending extra money. This labour government believes that simply throwing money at things makes them better. Look at them taking money out of universities and throwing it at schools. If labour bothered to take a look at why our education standards are so low, they would see that the majority could be fixed by better teaching standards. Teachers are taught in universities, if you take money out of universities they will not be able to teach teachers, which will negatively impact schools. All the while Julia is simply throwing money at schools and hoping it sticks. This labour government is completely incompetent, I don’t know how much better Abbott will be, but Labour has shown serious problems and it is time we give the Liberals a go and see if they can do any better. I think we must all remember that is was the liberal party who introduced Australia’s gun control policy, this shows that the liberals have a history of passing effective policy. This is coming from a 17 year old girl by the way, who is sick of seeing people following their particular parties like they are religious leaders.

  259. Well looky here, we’ve got a Liberal stooge who claims to be “sick” of partisanism. And note the username. Hypocrisy, much?

    Don’t listen to the Liberals, watch what they do.

  260. This is coming from a 17 year old girl by the way

    Then you are too young to vote … and that’s a good thing.

  261. To those of you who don’t seem to understand what I said throughout my argument. I do not hate the labour party and I do not support the liberal party, I simply hate Julia Gillard and the current labour party’s way of handling serious issues. The point of having a democracy is so that when one particular party starts to make wrong decisions (which they all will eventually), we have someone else to fall back on. The labour government has reached the point where it is causing more harm to Australia than good. Personally I do not like Abbott, but I think in this case he is the better of two evils. Just to finish I would like to state that all politicians are ‘nasty to the core’ (you don’t get to their position of leadership without betraying a few people on the way, Kevin Rudd). As I have said in both my posts, I am not a liberal in any way shape of form. In fact I would prefer the style of government that is proposed by the labour party, with better welfare systems and improving job stability. The problem is that right now Australia needs a government who can make proper legislation and is not afraid to make hard decisions. If that means that people are on less welfare payments then so be it, Australia cannot support our high standard of living without making serious changes, just look what is happening all over Europe right now. Governments should be elected based on their time and place, labour was good while Australia was in surplus, but they have used up the money and have shown that they are not able to release any reliable statement about when they can bring us out of debt. It is time for the liberals to come in and see if they can make a difference. Yes I am too young to vote, but I know and understand more about politics than the majority of the voting population, and I am sick of seeing labour supports following their master like sheep into the slaughterhouse. If you can’t see that the current labour government is incompetent than I am sorry but there is no hope for you.

  262. If you think the most important issue facing a country is the existence or not of a small accounting surplus in the federal government’s budget then your small-mindedness almost inevitably makes you a Liberal, despite the denials.

  263. So basically what you are saying is that, you are completely fine with the government spending more money than it earns?

  264. Absolutely. In fact during economic downturns a government must spend more than it earns, as long as that debt is serviceable, which ours is in spades.

    The alternative is to do what Howard did and sell off the farm whilst allowing services and infrastructure to crumble, which in the long run would cost more than the debt to service them.

    The fallout from governments pursuing surpluses for the sake of them is that it pushes debt to the private sector and instils large government structural deficits, both of which happened in spades under Howard as we saw Australia become the largest private debt nation in the OECD by a country mile whilst the structural deficit grew so large we are still suffering the consequences today.

    So can you tell us how we pay for infrastructure and services without going into debt, especially during an economic downturn and especially since the previous Liberal government left such a large structural and infrastructure deficit?

  265. Yes Anti Ju-LIAR, because a government isn’t a household. The Australian government is also not like any European government.

    At the moment, while we have unemployment rising, we NEED to be running budget deficits. As long as the economy is running at less than optimal capacity, we need to run deficits.

    Have a look at what Japan is doing at the moment – with some of the highest debt to GDP in the developed world, they’re “borrowing” ** more and their economy is showing the first signs of recovery after about 3 decades of the sort of economic theory that is still being practised in most of the OECD countries.

    Vote in the Liberals in September, and we’ll see rising unemployment and a stagnating economy. Have a closer look at Europe where they have in place the same sort of austerity programs that an Abbott government would implement here. Taking money out of a shrinking economy will only make it shrink faster, leading to higher unemployment, lower economic activity, lower taxation receipts, and ultimately bigger deficits.

    On the matter of debt, we will never be out of debt, no matter which party is in government. Mr Costello tried it some years back, but was jumped on from a great height by the finance industry which requires government debt to “maintain a liquid and tradable bond market.”

    Mr Koukoulas may help ease your irrational fears here:

    http://www.businessspectator.com.au/article/2013/5/20/economy/debt-goes-bump-night

    ** Some call it printing more money, technically – Quantitative Easing

    Unfortunately, I’m not very good at explaining this stuff – a good read of Professor Bill Mitchell’s blogs on Modern Monetary Theory would greatly assist your understanding of these concepts:

    http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/blog/?p=332

  266. “As long as the economy is running at less than optimal capacity, we need to run deficits.”

    Really?? Costello was handed unemployment at 8% in 1996 and quickly got the budget back into surplus.

    It actually took a Parliament House riot to cut govt expenditure. It started our most prosperous period for a long time.

    And Koukoulas is an idiot.

  267. It took Costello until 1998-99 to record his first surplus budget in vastly different circumstances to those we now find ourselves in. Likewise, unemployment didn’t get below that 8% figure until 1998, not hitting a low point of 6% until late-2000 before heading upwards again.

    Had Costello done nothing whatsoever different to what the Keating government had set in place, the surplus would have still been forthcoming at around the same time. The heavy lifting had already been done for him – that’s what set the “prosperous period” in train, not anything “Hammock” Costello did… :roll:

  268. “So basically what you are saying is that, you are completely fine with the government spending more money than it earns?”

    Governments do NOT earn money. They collect. Yes, if we want what is best for the country,that ensures we take a place, in the lead, in the Asian Century, I want the money spent.

    One could say much of the global deficits are the cause more by not collecting enough taxes, as spending too much.

    If we do not invest in infrastructure, and human capital, we will go down the gurgler quickly.

    What has this government spent, that does not meet this criteria,
    It is not the money spent, but what it is spent on.

    A national economy, does not work like your personal budget, of those of a business.

    It has nothing to do with being able to afford. We can,are a wealthy country. It is about what we cannot afford NOT to spend.

    I will go for a PM that is in the game of building, against one that is only capable of demolition anytime.

    It is not a personality question. It is about who can see what this his wide brown land needs and the guts to go after it.

  269. This PM has made many hard decisions. Many, including CEF and MRRT. Yes, and does not cuddle up to Murdoch. That is indeed a brave thing to do.

    This has to be one of the most competent and hard working PM this country has seen.

    All that you list, that you say you do not like, tells one how many hard decisions she has taken. Not only taken, but put in place.

    Education, you know, has not gone backwards, In fact it has improved.

    What has happened, that education in our region has improved m.

    What hard decision has Mr. Abbott taken. Has not even the guts to release his policies. Has not the guts to stand and answer a question at interviews.

    It is easy to knock down all in your path. Building is another matter.

  270. Neil, not for your sake, but because of the young lady making comments. The budget was on the way back to surplus,as Mr. Keating said it would, when Howard came to power.

    Would have ended up where it did, if Keating won another term.

    Yes, Keating put in the hard yards, making much economic reform in the process. Like all reform, there is always a down turn, until it comes good.

    Al the reform we have from Howard is the GST, which it seems was not the miracle worker, it was supposed to be. Definitely not delivering at this time. Bigger black money market than ever.

    Could it be another Howard failure?

  271. To fed up. I don’t think you seem to understand how government works, Tony Abbott is the opposition, this means that he is the minority. It is very difficult for the minority to pass legislation because no labour politician is going to support a move by the liberals, and vice versa. This is why as you say, Abbott has not made any hard decisions. Also you mentioned Abbott not having the guts to answer questions at interviews. Perhaps you should take a look at the way Julia Gillard answers her questions. All politicians are taught to twist a question and answer it so that it sounds positive. Just look at how Gillard refuses to answer any question pertaining to the reason why she continually supports Israel, instead of the real victims.

    You claim also that Gillard has made some hard decisions that are needed. Well yes she has made hard decisions but they are not going to bring out any good. Her schooling reforms after the GONSKI report, are ridiculous, what schools need are better training for teachers not money. If you think throwing money at schools will improve education standards you are a fool.

    While talking about schools, lets talk about the labour parties decision to give every school a sports centre. This is a typical labour tactic of pretending to make some good policy while really doing nothing. My school did not need a sports centre, and yet now we have one. If the government really wanted to do something good, they would have given schools some money to spend it on what they like, then maybe my school could have built a new library which is what we really needed, instead of a huge ugly shed that no one ever uses.

    Now lets talk about the Rudd government’s insulation scheme. I think most of us remember what a failure that was, with dodgy work being done all over Australia, because the government never specified the quality of the work, they just wanted it done cheaply.

    This labour government has a history of passing legislation that is either unneeded or causes great harm to the Australian people. Do you people actually believe that the Carbon Tax lowered Carbon emissions. Even Gillard admitted that carbon emissions will still be higher in 20 years than what they are now. Politicians do not understand any of the science behind climate change, changing the amount we emit will do nothing to get rid of the CO2 already in the atmosphere. It astounds me that people actually believe that the huge polluters in Australia would actually opt for cleaner production when they could just charge the public more. The only people this carbon tax has effected are small industries who do not have a monopoly on their product and don’t have the money to research cleaner energy techniques.

    None of these decisions were hard decisions that were made for the benefit of the country, they were just stupid. I would not be at surprised if the labour government kicks out Gillard soon, she has no ability to create or sell proper legislation. This is clear whenever she is backed into a corner she just says the opposition is misogynistic it is sad really. I respect Gillard for her ability to reach the top job in a career that is traditionally an all boys field, but she makes a bad case for women in politics, I am sick of hearing people say “this is why women should not be in politics”

  272. (continued) we need to get rid of this bad example, before she completely destroys the image of women working in positions of leadership. I have a feeling too many of you people on this site support the labour government simply because it is being led by a women. I would absolutely love to say that Julia Gillard is the first women prime minister and she is the best we have ever had, but I would be lying.

  273. Anti Ju-LIAR, bullshit. An Opposition is there to do more than oppose. they are also oblige. There are many incidents where their can e bipartisanship. Oppositeness to also negotiate.

    Labor can put forward legislation, but has to get the support of other MP’s.

    Opposition should not be in the businesses of straight out lying.

    Tony does run from questioning. The PM stays and answers all. Yes, you might not like the answers, that is OK.

    Yes, the PM has made hard, very hard decisions. One needs that ability in a minority government The PM also has the ability to negotiate. One lacking in Abbott.

    If she fails with Gonski, it will be our kids and the nations loss. It is good policy, as is NDIS, NBNco and CEF. All needed to take this nation into the future.

    Yes, the PM might lose the election. Funny, that does not make what she has done wrong.

    The money spent on schools during the GFC bought school environment into this century, along with keeping many in jobs. In fact leading to us being one of the best economies ion the world. You are lucky your school did not need the improvements they got. Most did. Desperately needed those new building and upgrading of their computer and digital equipment.

    No, throwing money at schools will not necessary make them better. It is how one spends the money. This is what Gonski is about. The present system is broken, and inequitable. .

    There were three investigations into the insulation scheme. Found it to be very good, lower death rates than before. Regulations for safety left on place. Over a million roofs insulated, saving millions on power bills. Yes, one where Rudd should have supported Garrett. His lack of support began his downfall.

    What legislation has the PM passed that is unnecessary or unwanted. Do you really believe that Abbott’s PL or Direct Action is better policy.

    I take it, yo believe in middle/upper welfare.

    Yes, this PM has cut much, the biggest fiscal consolidation the land has seen. Also been highly criticized by Abbott for every cut she has made.

    Jul.. you are entitled to your own views. I, to mind. I respect yours, but do not accept any.

    I believe we judge the results of this Labor government. Well looking around, they are pretty good.

    Low inflation, unemployment, interest rates. Ongoing growth, Triple AAA ratings.

    Not bad in anyone eyes.

    Just tell me where Abbott is going to do better.

  274. Anti Ju-LIAR, do you really have any idea of the legislation this government has had passed, with little or no opposition from Abbott.

    Most of what you are objecting to,, comes from the Rudd government.

  275. Perhaps you could tell us your idea of the legislation passed with little or no opposition from Abbott?

    Yet you and the idiots here call him “Mr No”? Yet again…can’t have it both ways. But yet again…I suppose you can in your ideological Wonderland!

  276. Anti Ju-LIAR

    It seems you are the one who doesn’t know how government works.

    If your assertion was true, and it’s not, then how do you explain past oppositions, including Howard in the minority against Keating and Labor against Howard who had both houses, getting their legislation and amendments in.

    Abbott hasn’t even tried, and unlike other politicians past and present, Abbott does run away and have minders to guide him.

    Methinks you speak from a very ideologically blinded point of view and ignore the reality because of it.

    I have seldom read someone who has things so wrong and twisted and speaks from a position of ignorance on the subjects posted.

  277. I have decided that I will no longer reply to those who call one idiots and other names. Sorry.

    For others. I would be surprised if Abbott himself knew what this government passed.

    This was evident in comments he made about not knowing how the NDIS would work. Running around the country, saying the PM has to reveal the information. I noticed he has shut up in this regard.

    All he had to do, was read the legislation that his party supported. Yes, proudly getting up in parliament, giving their support.

    Yes, I have realised, it is idiotic to reply to fools.

  278. If one observed Mr. Abbott, one would realise he has no interest in what occurs in the houses. His whole focus is on his daily stunts. This, he has drawn back on, as I believe it was hurting his cause.

  279. Yes, Mobius, all Abbott is interested in is stunts, legislation becomes a poor last.

    Juli…, as for women in parliament, one would not take the younger Bishop or Mirabella to model. When one looks to the senate, they are even worse.

    Cannot think of one Liberal woman that one could admire.

  280. I would like to add, there have been Liberal women in the past, that one could admire. Come to think of it,. men too.

    One that comes to mind, is Ms. Coonan, who was on ABC 24 this week. A forceful woman, who never has to be nasty.

    Would one really like their daughters, th behave like the Bishops Mirabella or Cash just for starters.

  281. Do high school children have to provide any primary or secondary sources to support their arguments in essays, these days?

  282. anyone remember the previous coalition’s DISGRACEFUL behaviour toward bob brown and kerrie nettle (and steve irwin saying bob should be taken around a corner and beaten up?)

    brown tried to present a petition to GW bush when he visited australian parliament over the illegal iraq war.. he was pushed and jostled by a gaggle of conservatives… wasn’t abbott a minister in that govt? was he involved? i don’t remember but that’s the ‘classy’ behaviour of the coalition.. using bar room brawling tactics when they want to get their own way.

    the LNP is littered with such thugs.

  283. Scaper, you’ve lost me..there are currently no admirable Liberal women, hence this is a reason to vote Liberal??????

  284. I think tony abbott is a cheat he cheated his way to be prime minister and he should no longer be in as over 120 people voted for him more than once at different places and i believe he had paid or bribed those people to do it so tony as well as those 120 people should be charged cause voteing more than once is a criminal offence and as far as tony goes he is the ring leader for paying or bribeing those people which is also a criminal offence…bring back kevin rudd any day would great for this country and the australian people coz rite now i am ashamed that i am an australian

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