Feb 23 2012

Who? Why?

We know two things.

There is going to be a leadership spill in the Labor camp and Tony Abbott would win an election if it were held in the near future.

Kevin Rudd, it appears, doesn’t have the numbers to topple the Prime Minister.  But by announcing that he’s the only person in the galaxy who can beat Abbott he is perhaps hoping to win over a few late votes.

It’s a pity that it boils down to who can beat Tony Abbott.  I would have hoped it was about who could best lead the Party and the country.

There are a dozen things we don’t know.  Will the shoot-out be between Gillard and Rudd or will there be other hats thrown in the ring?  Will Wayne Swan still be the Deputy Prime Minister on Tuesday night?  Will it be Roxon, Shorten or Crean?  If Rudd wins, will he see a lift in the polls or if Gillard wins, can she turn the screws on Abbott?

So these are a couple of questions I’ll throw open to you.  Who?  Why?

Cover art for Gun Fight (1975).

Image via Wikipedia

520 comments on “Who? Why?”

  2. Thanks el gordo, I forgot about Smith. His name has been mentioned a few times as a potential leader.

    What do you think Craig Thompson’s chances are? :mrgreen:

  3. If its about who would make the better Prime Minister, then Brendan Fevola , Eddie McGuire, Dame Edna Everage, Shane Warne and Kerry Anne Kennerley would all have to be considered. Lets have a real contest. Or maybe one of them would be better as President when we become a Republic.!

  4. Not a chance for Smith/Crean..Crean is a Julia supporter. If Julia goes, he is not going to be given the deputy’s job. Smith has been out of the main play for too long to be in with a chance.

    A compromise team: Roxon and either Shorten or Combet.

  5. ‘A compromise team: Roxon and either Shorten or Combet.’

    That’s no compromise, they are still wet behind the ears.

  6. Min, Steven Smith has spoken in support of Julia Gillard, as has Jason Clare.

    Smith doubts Rudd will quit parliament
    http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/8424438/rudd-not-the-saviour-of-labor-smith

    Mr Smith said he strongly supported Prime Minister Julia Gillard.

    He said the reasons for dumping Mr Rudd in 2010 were still relevant.

    “If you want to summarise it in one sentence: it was because members of the caucus and cabinet came to the conclusion if you were trying work through difficult issues, you could not work those through effectively with Kevin Rudd,” he said.

  7. Wilkie seeks Rudd clarification on poker machine position

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/in-depth/wilkie-seeks-rudd-clarification-on-poker-machine-position/story-fnccyr6m-1226279391289

    ANDREW Wilkie will issue a please explain to Kevin Rudd over claims his chief numbers man told the clubs lobby he would kill off the independent MP’s mandatory pre-commitment scheme.
    The anti-gambling campaigner, who has flagged his support for Mr Rudd should he become prime minister again, said he would not pre-judge Mr Rudd but would seek an explanation from him.

    “I look forward to speaking to him personally in due course,” Mr Wilkie said.

    However, he noted it was Ms Gillard, not Mr Rudd, who reneged on her commitment to introduce his poker machine reform plan.

    Rudd campaigner Alan Griffin, a Victorian backbencher, today admitted he told Clubs Australia last year to lobby independent Bob Katter and then-LNP member Peter Slipper on the issue.

  8. Conroy says Rudd has been playing double game on pokies reform

    http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2012/s3437359.htm

    TONY EASTLEY: Well as you just heard Alan Griffin denies meeting with Clubs Australia to lobby on behalf of Kevin Rudd. Cabinet members simply don’t believe that.

    Communications Minister Senator Stephen Conroy, you say Kevin Rudd has been constantly undermining the Government. What form did that undermining take?

    STEPHEN CONROY: Well let’s be very clear about this. What’s been revealed last night on television and over the weekend with Andrew Wilkie is a complete and utter fraud by Kevin Rudd.

    He has been pretending that he supported the pre-commitment technology, pretending he supported reform in this area, but his key numbers man just happened to have two meetings and tell Clubs Australia that he would kill it.

    And we all know last year, late last year Kevin Rudd’s supporters…

    TONY EASTLEY: But if I can bring you back, Alan Griffin denies that.

    STEPHEN CONROY: Yeah well you’d have to believe in Santa Claus that a Victorian backbencher who happens to be Kevin Rudd’s key numbers man happens to suddenly take an interest.

    I mean Clubs Australia have been absolutely clear that they believe what everybody else in the Caucus was being told. Kevin Rudd’s supporters – just go back and check the record – Kevin Rudd’s supporters were walking around Caucus saying look, dump Wilkie, I’ll make this go away. Kevin doesn’t need Andrew Wilkie in Parliament. He can get Bob Katter.

    The Australian public needs to know what’s been going on here.

    And this has been a long fuse, you’ve all heard that phrase they’ve been using, the Rudd supporters, this is a long fuse to destabilise the Prime Minister.

    Read on
    http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2012/s3437359.htm

  9. El gordo, Roxon has been a member of the House of Reps since 1998 and a shadow minister/minister for 11 years, that’s not exactly wet behind the ears.

  11. I don’t think that we’ve had this here as yet…

    She said she expected to win the ballot, but promised to go to the backbench and “renounce any further ambition for the Labor leadership” if defeated.

    “I anticipate that Mr Rudd will also be a candidate in this ballot,” she said.

    “I ask him to give the same undertaking – that if he does not win this ballot that he will go to the backbench and renounce any further claims to the leadership and act in the interests of the Australian Labor Party and of our nation.”

    If anything good is going to come of this whole affair, it will one way or the other stifle any further Gillard/Rudd leadership speculation.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-02-23/gillard-and-rudd-on-course-for-leadership-showdown/3846974?WT.svl=news0

  12. Gillard reveals true reasons for 2010 coup
    http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=8424615

    Prime Minister Julia Gillard has given her first truly frank account of why she tore down Kevin Rudd’s leadership, describing his tenure as chaotic, dysfunctional and poll-driven.

    As the pair hurtle towards another leadership showdown in Canberra on Monday, Ms Gillard revealed she decided to mount her June 2010 challenge because the Rudd government had entered a state of “paralysis”.

    “Kevin Rudd always had very difficult and very chaotic work patterns,” she told reporters in Adelaide on Thursday.

    While Mr Rudd was a great campaigner, the prime ministership required different skills, she said.

    “Government requires consistency, purpose, method, discipline, inclusion, consultation.

    “It requires you to lead a big team and lead it well.

    “Kevin Rudd as prime minister struggled to do that, and by the days of 2010 that struggle had resulted in paralysis in the government.”

    Ms Gillard said Mr Rudd had been obsessed with the daily news cycle instead of focusing on the long-term reforms needed for the nation’s future.

    Ms Gillard’s comments are the first real public criticisms she’s made of Mr Rudd since the 2010 coup.

  13. From Keith W on Facebook:

    Over the next few days, it is critically important to give the populace a brief historical reminder of why Rudd was axed in the first place.
    The unbelievable work demands he placed on his colleagues, public service departments and parliamentary staffers were nothing short of insane.
    There were far too many people, good loyal hard working people, who finally threw their hands up in the air and quit. They would rather abandon their hard won chosen careers than work with this unhinged tyrant.
    The rivers of a vitriolic abuse levelled at all and sundry by Rudd lead to an atmosphere of fear of and contempt for Rudd and his pimple faced Star Chamber of underqualified advisors.
    Long standing and respected caucus members could not get past the firewalled fortress of the PMs office. He had effectively isolated the vast majority of his own caucus from the parliamentary process, choosing instead to try to run the country by dictatorial decree.
    On top of this, the well documented outbursts that left innocent people destroyed by the awful feelings of complete impotence and humiliation they had to endure while Australia’s Prime Minister let loose a childish brat-like tirade of abuse up them in front of a shuddering audience. Rudd did this often and with relative impunity. One air hostess left in tears over a tantrum levelled at her because the Rudd decided his meal was inadequate comes to mind. Lest we forget!

  15. Pip, to me the almost precise moment of when Rudd lost the plot was when Tony Abbott took over. Rudd, at least publicly seemed to stay on course against Nelson and Turnbull..but not against Abbott. Why? I do not know, perhaps all the other things which Migs has quoted from Keith W are the reason.

  16. Conroy attacks political reporting
    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/media/conroy-attacks-political-reporting/story-e6frg996-1226279321130

    COMMUNICATIONS minister Stephen Conroy has attacked journalists for overstating Kevin Rudd’s support in caucus.
    “What has happened is that journalists have been prepared to publish any list without even phoning people,” Mr Conroy said.

    “I mean I think David Bradbury said a couple of days ago that no one had ever picked up the phone and asked who he was supporting and he kept seeing his name in the Rudd or the undecided column.

    “This is just publishing lists that have been put forward by the Rudd camp without any testing of them and this is just very, very disappointing and has genuinely upset a whole range of the members of caucus.”

    Mr Bradbury, MP for Lindsay, had previously stated he supported Prime Minister Julia Gillard.

    Senator Conroy also had a few words to say about media ownership…

  17. Min @ 5.55pm, Nicola Roxon said:-

    “We need to get out of this idea that Kevin is a Messiah who will deliver government back to us.”

  19. Migs@ 6.10pm

    I remember all of those accusations being vigorously defended on this site, They were media beatups, sooky staff or simply untruths. If they were true, it was the PM simply being human.

    My how the worm has turned.

  21. Min, the reports of Rudd’s temper came from many different directions, but I agree the rot set in when Tony Abbott became leader……Tony Abbott and his army of shockjocks and astro-turfers

    I still think the Mining Council had a lot to do with it as well.
    Maybe that was one of the messes the MPs are talking about now.

  22. My gut feeling is that Rudd was eventually spooked by the knowledge that Abbott would just keep coming, backed by his limitless media support. He clobbered Abbott in their health debate, to no apparent effect. On Lateline? when confronted (those were the days!) with this fact, that old Howardista & Liberal apologist Grahame Morris said in best schoolyardese “Doesn’t count!”
    It didn’t either, as the pressure continued. Rudd couldn’t stand up to that. Julia’s made of sterner stuff.

  23. Miglo, Keith has given a good precis of all the bits and pieces of of information which appeared during Rudd’s time as PM.

  27. The Emperor is returning from exile for another try. If Gillard defeats him this time, would that legitimise her in the eyes of those who think Rudd was hardly done by? It should but I doubt it, the issue will be kept alive.

    Pip
    Haven’t a clue where Morris is these days. He always reminded me of a song in My Fair Lady-
    “Oozing charm from every pore,
    he oiled his way around the floor…”

  29. Roswell, I think that you have called it. Rudd might win the media’s popularity contest but Gillard has parliament’s best performers backing her. Has one senior minister yet come forward to support Rudd? If so, then I’ve missed it.

  33. Yes, shane, and I was guilty of defending Rudd too. But we didn’t have the sort of information that has now been let loose on the public. I don’t think I am a worm who has turned. I simply can’t deny the overwhelming evidence that is being put before me.

    All that aside. We also have the evidence of a functional governnment, even with a hung parliament. Someone knows how to be PM! Just look at her record of legislation passed after negotiation and consultation. Look at the esteem and respect in which Julia Gillard is held by all except silly Andrew Wilkie who when he couldn’t have the moon knocked back the stars.

    Look at the people who have come out to praise Julia Gillard – Roxon, Swan, Brown, Windsor, Garratt, Combet and the like. Who has come out for Rudd?
    Mar’n Ferguson, Kim Carr, a marginal seat holder and a PR consultant.

    Whose opinion do you trust?

  35. The Emperor is returning from exile for another try. If Gillard defeats him this time, would that legitimise her in the eyes of those who think Rudd was hardly done by? It should but I doubt it, the issue will be kept alive

    Of course it will be kept alive, because “The Emperor” was removed by stealth and not by the electorate. There are some people called swinging voters who do not automatically bow to a party line and these are the ones who remain pissed off. Telling them to move on, or get over it, is not received well by those who cannot see past their own party bias.

  36. I believe it was dawning on many that Mr. Rudd was not to be trusted as well as suspecting he would not be loyal.
    I believe he hang Mr, Garrett out to dry, instead of addressing th matter.

    Mr Rudd takes no responsibility for his actions or decisions.

    The PM today admitted to mistakes and name them.

    I would like to see a little humility from Mr. Rudd..

  37. Patricia

    I trust my own opinion. I from it from receiving information from many areas and my own life experiences.

    I trust that I elected Rudd and it would be my decision to remove him. No so, the party hacks decided for me.

    Seems to me the information coming out about Rudd now is once again bitter and vengeful political manouveres.

    He was not a saint but he was elected by the people no matter how much we are told it is the party not the leader.

  38. Chris, mostly ministers that are fast facing their used by date. Look were the younger ones go,

    I leave Bowen out of that, but he seems more confused than taking a stand against the PM.

  39. Thanks Chris, I’ve found 2 now Ferguson with McClelland a possible. I think that Rudd would need at least a couple of the top guns to have a chance.

  40. patriciawa, have you declared Windsor a member of the Labor Party. Rudd let “Garret of the Burning Beds” loose and he let his department put him in the Do Do, Julia had her billion dollars or so worth of sheds for schools and Builders retirement fund. I think Kev had good reason for trying to get a handle on things, the Caucus Luminaries and New Stars were blatantly incompetent!

  41. Cu, I agree with you on the issue of Peter Garrett and expressed this at the time – that Rudd should not have let Garrett be the fall guy. Eventually the facts were revealed that Minister Garrett did not kill people in roofs using pink batts.

  42. I trust that I elected Rudd and it would be my decision to remove him. No so, the party hacks decided for me.

    Shane, I’m afraid thee and me don’t decide the parliamentary leader of the government or the opposition …

    But, I’m thinking that the current leadership spill only reflects our society today … as a baby boomer I was happy to be on a winning team and if chosen to be the leader of that team, if not I contributed to the success of the team and supported her/him … these days EVERYONE thinks they can be the boss …

  43. I defended rudd and didn’t believe the press, but now that the truth is out i feel that rudd is the betrayer.

    gillard has been doing a great job under difficult, no extremely diffiicult circumstances. and to think that rudd is more interested in his OWN legacy/worth/pomposity is the biggest betrayal of labor values.

    labor goals are for looking out for the community not about the ‘me’.

    so today i have heard minister after minister talking about getting on with the job of implementing labor policy.

    only rudd has spoken about “I” can save the party, “I” can save australia.

    even tha backbencher d’ath corrected lyndal curtis when curtis said gillard was only implementing the rudd platform. d’ath said no gillard had implemented Labor policy.

  44. Hopeless aren’t they Chris..so much so that Swan was named World’s Best Treasurer, the first Australian treasurer to be given this award since Keating. But wot wud d’os furriners know.

  45. No, Chris, just including Tony Windsor in a short list of people I respect. I overlooked others, like Penny Wong and there are more.

    As well, Shane, it’s not just the opinion of others I rely on. Rudd’s behaviour, demeanour and words tell me the man is a nut case. He sees himself as the ‘saviour’ of a party which has given him the boot in no uncertain terms. He undermines that party and risks its future by resigning at this point and causing all this chaos. Journalists confirm his leaking to them consistently, even during the last election. So having undermined the ALP and Prime Minister Gillard, and risked the country’s future too, he now steps forward and talks about ‘saving’ the party.

  47. Shane, I’m afraid thee and me don’t decide the parliamentary leader of the government or the opposition …

    How many PMs do you know that have been removed from the job during their first 3 year term ?. Like I said irrespective of the politics the belief is we do elect the PM and expect them to be kept PM unless they hand over of their won free will.

    Patricia, will you still maintain your same rage if Rudd wins on Monday?

  48. But, I’m thinking that the current leadership spill only reflects our society today … as a baby boomer I was happy to be on a winning team and if chosen to be the leader of that team, if not I contributed to the success of the team and supported her/him … these days EVERYONE thinks they can be the boss …

    TB

    Totally agree and it has also been punched into us through big business as well, via individual targets, individual salaries, individual blame and individual greed and progression.

  49. Min, the four Rudd backers named are Martin Ferguson, Chris Bowen, Kim Carr, and Robert McClelland.

    The only quote I’ve seen of Bowen’s was that he said Rudd has plenty to offer and he should stand.

    Kevin Rudd is in election mode.

    Rudd backers emerge as Gillard fights
    http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/rudd-backers-emerge-as-gillard-fights-20120223-1tp2v.html

    The former foreign minister, who resigned from cabinet on Wednesday, outlined some of his priorities.

    These include small business tax cuts, the restoration of car industry assistance, a new hospital funding plan and a HECS discount for maths and science students.

    “We squibbed some of the hard decisions,” Mr Rudd said of the Gillard government.

    Cabinet minister Mr Ferguson said Mr Rudd, who has consistently outpolled Ms Gillard as the favoured Labor leader, was best placed to beat the coalition.

    “In making my decision I’ve assessed in my mind what’s best for the party in terms of our capacity as a party to maintain good governance, a focus on policy and also to best position ourselves as a party in terms of an election,” Mr Ferguson said.

    Mr. Rudd must have forgotten the tax goodies for small business when the carbon pricing kicks in.
    He must have missed the fact that the government has almost doubled the spend on Health.
    He must have missed the new HECS scheme for Vocational Education Training.

    As for the science and math situation, the Gonski Report was instigated by
    PM Gillard, and will take some time to review plus consult with teachers and parents etc.,

    As for the car industry support, he really hasn’t been paying attention.

    PM pledges support for car industry, amid talks on aid for Holden
    by: Lanai Vasek and James Massola
    From: The Australian February 02, 2012

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/holden-praised-for-trying-to-save-jobs-as-cuts-are-labelled-unavoidable/story-fn59niix-1226260866540

  50. Shane @ 7.17pm, Kevin Rudd was elected by the people in his electorate of Griffith.

    I supported Rudd at the time, and wrote, in support of Rudd, to the Labor party at the time he was deposed, but I have since changed my mind.

    There were enough clues along the way to realise that he wasnt a good manager.

  51. We do have short and selective memories.

    Go back to when Mr. Rudd was deposed. The government had done much to be proud of. Yes, we have came through a near world depression virtually unharmed.

    Pensioners were left in a better position with big rises in their income.

    In spite of this, the media was trashing Labor every day. Things that the government had achieved was being presented as failure, when the reality was that they were successful.

    I include in this BER and the Insulation. There was the upgrading in schools of technology and provision of computers.

    There was a upgrade of infrastructure in the schools that were decades overdue.

    We had over one million homes insulated. At the same time, safety regulations was introduced in an industry that had been around for fifty years. (By the way, this is a state responsibility.

    .
    We had an upgrade of public housing and roads. The list goes on and on.

    Mr, Rudd seem unable to turn this around. His answer was to go out, as Mr. Abbott does every day, having his photo taken in hospitals, pushing a scheme that was achievable.

    Yes, the media was having a field day, pointing out each day how incompetent Labor was,

    Yes, Lyndal Curtis may be right in saying that the PM has only implemented Mr. Rudd’s policies. Not exactly correct. The PM implemented Labor policies that Mr. Rudd was unable to.

    With the carbon emission pricing, Mr. Abbott had three choices, dump it, go back to the drawing board with the Greens or call a double dissolution. He did nothing.

    This was the environment that Mr. Rudd was deposed in.

    Not deposed by faceless men, but by his peers, the members in caucus.

    It would not surprise me if the PM had concerns that her achievements in education and IR may also receive the same treatment that Mr Garrett received.

    What the PM is now saying, makes sense to me.

    Labor should have been riding high in the polls and looking forwarded to the next election. They were not.

    It, in my opinion was about much more than being rude. It was because the government was not functioning due to it’s leader. Now if you were a member, especially a minister of that government, would you be screaming from the rooftops, that the government had became dysfunctional.

  52. Pip

    If you have only ever voted ALP then your decision to back or not back Rudd is irrelevant as you will toe the party line. It is the swinging voters like myself who need convincing and they have felt cheated and betrayed since his removal.

    CU

    I ask the same of you as Patricia. If Rudd wins on Monday will you maintain your current stance or will you simply revert back to the previous spin when he was still PM ?

  53. shaneinqld at 7.13
    Not possible to come up with an original answer for you, as the “parties elect leaders” thing’s been done a million times.
    The point being that (assuming she wins) this time Gillard defeats Rudd under similar circumstances. Gillard led the ALP in the last election, & formed government. To say that “swinging voters” will hold this grudge indefinitely is to place them in much the same situation as those who always follow a party line. They aren’t, in fact, being asked to move on, never really were.
    At 7.17 you take on a few imperial tones yourself. It wasn’t you who elected Rudd as P.M.

  54. Shane, just for myself..irrespective of what happens on Monday, there is absolutely no way that I will ever vote for Tony Abbott to become Prime Minister. And it’s not just about Tony and disliking his opinion on mostly everything, I also believe that his team are a bunch of incompetants.

  55. Sue, interestingly Julia said she would not do some of the things Kev had in the platform the Government he led was going to take to the people, and did implement them, then just recently she refused the say if she new about her victory speech, and didn’t ask for it, directly. Now a statement of we should be prepared for a victory, is not technically asking for a Victory Speech, just choosing your word appropriately, to avoid the truth.

  56. No Shane I will not. I believe I was losing faith in Me. Rudd before he was deposed. I did support him against the criticism he was receiving about his early life.

    I did this because of my back ground, what he was saying rang true.

    I began to lose faith in him when the insulation scheme blew up in the public eye. I felt he should have supported Garrett as I was aware that what was being reported was far from the truth.

    I never had much time for Mr. Hawke continue to vote for him. I was happier with Mr, Keating, even when it went bad for him.

    I was disappointed when PM Gillard took over. Not because I thought she was no good but because I believe she had the making of a good PM and was taking a poison chalice.

    No, I will not be supporting Mr. Rudd. I have already made my local member aware of this.

    I just hope I have a decent Green candidate but in my electorate it will not make much difference. If she goes, Labor will be wiped out.

    I do not see this happening because I believe commonsense will prevail.

    I also believe this is the crisis that PM Gillard needs to clear the air.

    I was not happy the day PM Gillard took over. I seen it as being bad for her. I did not expect Mr. Rudd to carry on wth his undermining as he has. That was an susrpised.

    The thing is that the PM has not thrown in the towel and is coming across more confident than ever.

  57. I should add there is no way I will vote for Abbott. No way I would vote for the Liberal Party.

    Mainly because they have nothing to offer me. The opposite is true,

  58. Chris. is what happened in the few days before the removal that important.

    I suggest what is important is why it was done.

    It is important whether it was the right thing to do.

    Whether the PM became aware of a speech 2 or 48 hour before is of little consequences.

    The PM said that she did not request the acceptance speech. Many has said this happens in many offices and is not unusual.

    The PM said that she made her mind up at the last moment. There is no evidence to suggest otherwise.

    What is the problem.

  59. Oh yes, & apropos of not much, our local ABC had to get a dig in at Gillard’s presser venue, not sure what their beef was & I don’t think they were either, but it’s all in the spirit ‘aint it?
    Also TV news making a big deal about some camereman who got in the way of a car & had his foot injured. Dope shouldn’t have got in the way.

  60. I hope you don’t mind me adding this comment from TPS:

    KEVIN RUDD IS A SELF-MADE MAN WHO WORSHIPS HIS CREATOR!

    For gawd’s sakes Patricia,
    you do realise we need a candidate who can beat the seasoned veteran & as sharp as a tack Tony Abbott backed & advised by the likes of Howard, Sinodinos & Textor don’t you?

    We’re not running for Emily’s List.

    It’s about putting up an individual who can challenge Abbott on his family values’ policies…

    who can out-church him…and demonstrate that the government works for all voters, including those who live charitable lives because they actually believe in something…in traditions and a messiah steeped in history…who may be somewhat mythical…but his teachings…and those of his disciples motivated millions, if not billions to create communities and nations that did THE RIGHT THING by the people.

    The same kind of believers who put their lives at risk to help persecuted Jews…who walked into leper colonies to feed and nourish the rejected & suffering…the same kind of people who stood up to Roman dictators and were tortured & murdered for their beliefs.

    Yes, Kevin Rudd might not be a perfect person, but then, who is? Perhaps some of his deals, fixed or potential, seem opportunistic…seem inappropriate…but let’s face it…he’s attempting to tame some of the corporate, highly influential bullying beasts (if reports are true)…

    we know full well the damage they can do to our election campaigns, politicians’ reputations, policies…

    Is a deal w/ miners the likes of Rio Tinto & BHP any better?…

    a deal that strips the public of billions of potential dollars that could be redistributed to truly assist small business, the disadvantaged, the environment?

    Do you really believe that PM Julia Gillard has more integrity than Kevin Rudd?…

    Where is this pure as driven snow integrity when it comes to the carbon price? Ask the people. You here them voice their distrust on this issue everyday when it comes to our present PM.

    Where is the integrity when it comes to asylum seekers and East Timor? Or the Malaysian Solution? One a load of BS, and don’t the people know it…the other simply unpalatable for many of the public…seen as more of a political strategy than an answer to saving lives…and securing the border.

    Where is the integrity when it comes to knifing a sitting PM…one whom she, Gillard, worked closely with, day in & day out?

    Why couldn’t Julia use her brilliant powers of negotiation to convince Rudd to up his game…take a holiday…or go for his heart op earlier?

    The people ask the same…it runs thru their minds everytime they remember the assassination of their democratically-elected Prime Minister.

    That’s what they think. That’s what they believe.

    And nothing you or any other Gillard supporters say is going to change that between now and the next election.

    Patricia, I’m about winning elections. I don’t have that luxury of finding a pristine candidate…this is politics…it’s a bloody dirty game.

    Politicians exaggerate…they make crappy deals…they make promises they can’t, don’t keep…they put their core principles aside sometimes…

    think of the great Bill Clinton…
    the man who came back from hell to win a 2nd term…helping to create many more jobs…and putting into protection so much wilderness that even Bob Brown would smile…

    they do it because they know they MUST get across that line FIRST.

    Because once you do…you can do wonderful things.

    Sometimes rapidly, sometimes incrementally.

    Create conditions, implement policies that ensures that people like you & I have the luxury of being able to criticise & moan & pontificate & wax lyrical in a functioning, participatory democracy without fear of real persecution…or tragic consequences…

    unlike those poor beggars in Syria.
    And Iran.

    So let’s put aside this fairytale about Gillard having more integrity than Rudd…

    and focus on who has a better chance of winning this election…

    and beating the man who took a billion dollars out of healthcare…

    who backed John Howard when he kowtowed to GW Bush as they took us into one of the great strategic misadventures of our times…

    a Liberal politician who seems buzzed about slicing and dicing tens of thousands of public service jobs…families who need that money to pay their mortgages…provide for their children…their education…and healthcare…

    Tony Abbott, an individual who seems to have no problem w/ telling women how they should act w/ their bodies when he thinks he’ll get political advantage from it…

    a character who is a true weathervane when it comes to political policies such as the carbon price & subsidies for manufacturing…primarily because he truly is full of sh*t…

    a sycophantic fool willing to destroy the NBN and continue the infrastructure neglect left by his former leader John Howard…willing to deny the people their fair share of the miners’ gigantic profits…in order to keep the Gina Rineharts and Clive Palmers on side…

    unwilling to admit that he would be more suitable for the Vatican…or as a propagandist for a crusading army…or as a participant in marathon sports…

    than to be the Prime Minister of this moderate country that prides itself on avoiding extremist wankers taking power into their grasp for too long…having witnessed the insanity of American politics…and religious wars.

    I say, give me an ALP leader who can beat this man, this charlatan, Tony Abbott.

    I believe that leader is Kevin Rudd.

    The man who ended the far too long, damaging, neglectful Howard reign over us Australians.

    N’

  61. This government has run out of gas.
    Both sides will tear themselves apart for a month or two.
    There will be a vote of no confidence and for many separate and conflicting reasons the numbers will be short.
    There will be an election.

    ……..and we all now agree it wasn’t a media conspiracy?

  62. Hi Nas,

    It appears that the electorate favour Rudd, there is no doubting that. He is the person who has the best chance of beating Abbott, of that I am sure.

    It’s the indies that worry me. I’m not confident they’ll back Rudd like they do Gillard and this might lead to an unstable government, and god help us, an early election. The longer an election can be held off, the greater are Labor’s chances.

    I really liked Rudd as a PM and I really like Gillard too. But I like the Labor Party more. I just want to see them win the next election, no matter who leads them. It is my hunch that person will be Gillard.

    The saddest thing about this episode is that it’s dividing Labor supporters. We are turning on each other. No matter what happens on Monday, we need to stick together.

    Nice to see you, btw. :)

  63. Well said Nas’ your contribution is much appreciated. I likewise do not believe that any politican is nor can be as pure as the driven snow, politics being the game that it is.

  64. Geoff, if I were to write to my local paper daily and predict a flood tomorrow, one day I’ll be right.

    That’s how this episode has unfolded. The media have been predicting it daily.

  67. Hmmm, I’m thinking this is partly the fault of whoever decided to start running “Presidential” style campaigns ~ anyone else remember Kevin ’07 ~ in a country where there are no Presidents.

    All that yeehawing about what a great hooman bean he is appear to have (i) convinced Mr Rudd he is the REAL chosen one and (ii) persuaded the Australian public that contrary to the actual way our system works and about which there is no secret, “We the voters” elect the leaders of the various parties vying for our ballot.

    If the public would spend a few minutes bringing themselves up to speed on the rules by which politicians are chosen and work, there might not be such general angst about their appallingly low standards of personal behaviour, and more concentration on the actual job of work they are doing.

  68. If the public would spend a few minutes bringing themselves up to speed on the rules by which politicians are chosen and work, there might not be such general angst about their appallingly low standards of personal behaviour, and more concentration on the actual job of work they are doing.

    Makes sense to me, Christine.

  69. I first remember getting interested in politics when the Hawke, Keating deal first came to light. Like most Australians, I didn’t think much of Keating because the media had him portrayed as arrogant treasurer and things were pretty hard for people back then (living in rural NSW with parents who had been members of the Country /National party didn’t help portray Keating in a good light either).However, when it became clear that Hawke reneged on the power share deal, I felt that Keating was owed the leadership, and the sense of injustice somehow broke the view I had of Keating as a bastard. Being (just) too young to vote in ’93 my views were largely irrelevant but I remember asking one of the ALP people at the voting booth when my dad was voting if I could have the Keating poster. When he asked me why, I said it was because I admired him, and that really showed how a view of a person can change in a couple of years when triggered by a sense of injustice (coupled with a dislike of the opposition!)

    I tell the story above because I see some similarities with the present situation. Until now,Rudd has looked like the wronged man (the Keating to Gillard’s Hawke) – Gillard would always find it hard to get traction with the Public while she was viewed as a backstabber,articularly to a PM with strong popular support. But this changed this morning. Gillard’s has finally spelled out why she challenged Rudd and the story has credibility, indeed it is backed up by almost every ALP pollie, even those who support Rudd (hence the ‘he’s changed’ rhetoric); finally, Gillard’s position can be viewed with sympathy and Rudd’s ‘wronged man’ persona no longer quite rings true. Is this enough to sway public opinion for Gillard? I honestly don’t know but I can say this, the Rudd ousting now makes sense (and I doubt I’m the only person thinking this).

    If I was Abbott, I’d be worried that a lot of the perceived tarnish on Gillard was more superficial than previous thought and perhaps the Rudd challenge was the ‘Silvo’ she needed. One thing I can’t see is he personal approval ratings going down from here. Just like Keating pointing out the flaws in The extremely popular Hawke didn’t hurt his long term approval ratings, Gillard’s articulation of what it was like working under Rudd won’t hurt her n the long run.

  71. NSA,

    I really really really dislike Abbott…But… Based on what Gillard and the other key members of Cabinet have bees aging over the past few days, a disfunctional Government led by Rudd is no guarantee that the ALP would win (declining TPP prior to original spill evidence of this). Gillard is getting things done and yes, the MMRT isn’t as smart as the RSPT but do you really think the ALP would have won an election under Rudd with the MCA, rio, Xstrata and BHPB fighting them? Politics (and implementing policy) is more about pragmatism than it is about ideology, (Workchoices was a great example of this). Rudd may once have been popular enough to win the next election on personality alone but vacuous spin to satisfy the media cycle won’t show up Abbott as the flake he is, that will only come from getting runson the board and I can’t see Rudd getting those runs in a hung parliament unless he has really changed his leadership style.

  72. Last comment was in response to Nas’s comment, nothing to do with he NSA!. Bloody iPad is hiding the first few lines of comment field and I haven’t worked out how to fix it :(

  74. A chap from one of the polling places on radio this afternoon speculated that if Gillard wins on Monday, which seems likely now but who knows by then, and IF she can then get six months “clear air” from Rudd and his supporters (the big if) she can do a lot to re-build.

    I’m actually really concerned about this on a few levels, none to do with who the ‘leader’ will be, although I do take the point Dave55 makes. Politics IS about passion and the struggle for justice for many of us, so seeing someone treated unfairly can be very galvanising.

    My own concerns are mainly about the so-called ‘carbon tax’ ~ we know that certain people and corporations would go a long long way to ensuring it never sees the light of day, and if the government can be toppled prior its introduction, they would rejoice. Once it comes in and the sky does not fall, selling it as a bad thing will be much much harder.

    The second is the amount of legislation the Opposition are letting slide through, without proper scrutiny, and the media without reporting it. Last week there was debate about human gene copyrighting. What happened? Looks like a trawl through Hansard to find out, because neither the Opposition or the press mentioned it. neither the opposition nor the media are doing their jobs because they are busy playing politics, and the ‘leadership’ issue only helps them distract us from what is actually being done and enacted in our names …

  75. catching up, it demonsrates a pattern, and fits with other like incidents. myself I’m tired of deception, from all sides, delusion I can’t abide either, it just makes me dispair, and confirms my justification to myself of why not to vote Labor Green or National! The Libs strain the friendship a bit too.

  76. Only “a bit” Chris, you could have fooled me. :smile:

    You may not have noticed, but the current group of Liberals are not Liberals.

    They are conservatives, just as bonsai arranged things when he had the chance.

  77. Miglo, I don’t know whether to post this here or on the mediawatch page, so here goes

    It’s time to let the facts get in the way of the story

    Michael Gawenda

    http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/3847892.html

    Are there journalists who have been briefed by Rudd and his supporters, for months now and perhaps even going back to 2010, about Rudd’s long-term strategy to win back the prime ministership?

    Are there journalists – and for that matter newspaper editors and television and radio senior executives – who have been briefed by Rudd and his supporters over the past six months or more, about Rudd’s so-called ‘campaign of destabilisation’?

    Did he viciously disparage Gillard? Did he viciously disparage the Government of which he was a senior member? Did his supporters do all that? Did Rudd tell journalists that he would eventually challenge for the leadership when the time was right – and when that time might be?

    It seems to me that on the evidence publicly available and the evidence of gossip amongst journalists, the answer to all these questions is: yes.

    If the answer is yes to all these questions – or even most of them – then there are journalists out there now who are retailing lies.

    and

    Rudd and his supporters deny that they have run any campaign of destabilisation. Rudd and his supporters deny that they have regularly briefed journalists, editors and senior media executives. At his two bizarre press announcements in Washington, Kevin Rudd spoke as if he was a total innocent, as pure as the driven snow, morally virginal, having never ever been involved in the grubby politics of undermining, white-anting, wounding and ultimately destroying an opponent.

    And reporters, some of whom knew that none of this was true, reported it all without comment, without letting us know that they knew, personally, that it was untrue.

    This is ‘he said, she said, they said’ journalism. It is meant to be ‘straight’ but what it is in reality is timid and ultimately dishonest.

  83. Hi Pip/Migs. It’s going to be funny for a few days yet. Wait until Abbott finds a microphone. It’ll be hilarious. What’s the bet he’ll call for an election?

  91. Lateline

    http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/

    Defence Minister Stephen Smith joins Lateline to discuss the latest in the Labor leadership showdown, saying the party will survive despite the fierce animosity shown by senior politicians.

    http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2012/s3438353.htm

    Here’s a clue as to the response to Tony Jones muddling QandA with Lateline.

    STEPHEN SMITH: Well, Tony, with the greatest of respect, you can answer your own questions or you can let me give you the answers.

  92. Cheers Min, Migs & Dave 55 (belated happy b’day)

    My latest comment at TPS…adds to the discussion on Rudd VS Gillard:

    Building up to each election campaign I like to interact w/ other bloggers/commentors like a think tank, throw ideas & criticisms out there related to policy & prospective candidates…see what comes back…

    by pushing certain buttons, presenting varying views/hypothetical scenarios I get a sense of the online mood towards political characters and compare it to that coming thru the MSM by way of the selected public interviews, polls, feedback from other pollies & media commentators…testing for the percieved strengths, weaknesses, vulnerabilities of certain candidates.

    It’s exhausting but a useful exercise.

    I reach a certain point when I require a deep sleep…only a few hours…but awaken refreshed…the jumble in my mind becomes keenly focused.

    I choose a candidate to support. The one I believe has the best chance of winning the election.

    In this case, it’s Kevin Rudd.

    I do believe he’s pretty well TEFLON at this point…like Howard & Clinton once were.

    Rudd has that [i]special something[/i] that gets him the oft positive attention that is required to beat a marathon attention-seeker like Tony Abbott…

    Abbott also has that special something…respected for his effort…but is generally seen by many as an odd creature, catering too oft to extremist, kooky ideas…not quite trustworthy…hiding a streak of meanness, unpredictability, zealotry…and underlying rage that could lead to a bullying PMship if put under too much pressure…or bouts of incompetence and heading off for long bike rides and other cathartic acts leading to a confused government…and neglect & infighting affecting economic conditions.

    To beat Abbott we need someone who can pull in the audience…SELL THE GOOD STORY…drain the attention away from Abbott. Push Abbott’s buttons…force him to reveal those things the public suspect about him.

    Unfortunately, Gillard is the best friend Abbott has. In order to bring out his negatives she is forced, it seems intrinsically, to show her own…petty, nasty, annoyingly loud, testy, brittle side…as tho the two are in a custody battle. It makes them equals.

    But Gillard is also percieved as the untrustworthy backstabber who stumbles…oft shoots herself in the foot, ambitious pragmatist who cannot identify w/ the average religious believer and their family struggles. It’s sad…but the labels have stuck…whether they be valid or not.

    The public are not enchanted by Abbott either…they really want to see another Liberal leader…but in order to get rid of Abbott the public generally feel they need to downgrade Gillard in polls further than they might otherwise…because by bringing Rudd back they feel it will inevitably dispose of Abbott…one way or another.

    The public feel they have the right to decide the fate of Kevin Rudd…they were robbed…they feel robbed enuff in life, in these volatile times, w/out their representatives contributing to it by knifing a sitting PM who won the majority of seats…and helped them get thru the GFC tsunami…they are determined to take back that right from the perceived faceless men, powerbrokers.

    If Abbott is replaced, it’s possible Rudd will lose…but I doubt it.

    I’m confident that Kevin Rudd has EVOLVED.

    And with proper sleep, less paranioa and controlling behaviour…less confrontation, more appreciative of other’s effort, more diplomacy using the skills he’s boned up on as foreign minister…less pressure on him related to his heart condition since the op…a great deal of reflection & knowledge acquisition related to his previous stint as PM…and the backing of a wonderfully supportive family…add the confidence that comes w/ age, experience and popular sentiment…

    and I expect he will be a competent and far more cooperative, less interfering PM when it comes to the caucus…and other departments.

    He’s a brilliant & effective campaigner…

    and I cannot see him undermining popular policies that assist in bonding the ALP w/ the various cross-benchers who make up this minority government.

    Rudd has the ability when he puts forward his charm & humour to bring the public w/ him on issues…particularly when he’s a guest on various popular TV shows…

    I expect he will be received warmly…in some ways like a cuddly bear…or an eccentric superstar.

    He has great influence overseas by way of his many contacts…and how handy is it to have a PM who can attend big functions who knows the overseas biz thru & thru.

    I’m sure the government will run just fine w/ Rudd acting more as a Presidential campaigner…and advisor, coordinator. Sometimes leaving negotiations to other professionals in the government.

    We all generally learn over time to trust others…and delegate.

    And focus on what we’re best at.
    N’

  93. Why Aint Rudd Dead?

    Kev Rudd aint dead?
    No! Kevin Rudd aint dead!
    In Canberra Labor people sigh.
    He just will not be told.
    He is done for, has been rolled.
    The feller just don’t understand, “Goodbye!”

    Journalists there dread
    When all the world’s in bed
    If he’s awake and wants to vent his spleen,
    He calls out all the press
    And gives a long address
    On the evils of the ALP machine.

    “We are gathered here today
    So I can have my say
    On how badly I was done by
    And not given all my dues.
    No one listened to my views
    While Julia Gillard gave me the evil eye.”

    “Don’t complain that this is night.
    I have to catch a flight!”
    But just to keep them pacified
    And to earn a bit of glory
    He’ll feed them with a story
    Making sure they know it’s classified.

    And so off they go
    And harass ASIO
    Whose agents really know him.
    With their mates in DFAT
    They’d like to join the brass hats
    In Defence and find some way to show him!

    Why aint Kev Rudd dead?
    When each Department Head
    And every leftie politician
    Have come to hate his guts?
    Cos he’s nowhere near as nuts
    As that other one in Opposition.

  95. patriciawa

    why aint rudd dead

    that’ s because he is a zombie and why the press was talking about the stake thru the heart.

    and like all those horror movies he will jump up and grab you down.

    and for the “innocent” backbenches like in any scary movie, you DO NOT walk down that darkened hallway, for that is where evil lurks.

  96. I understand what your saying’ Nas. Rudd is the peoples’ man, but is he the party’s? We’ll find out on Monday.

    I’m a fan of Julia Gillard, but if she loses I’ll still be a Labor man and give my support to Rudd.

    Either way, let us embrace it as a new era for the Party.

  98. I reckon Rudd is on an important spiritual journey from hubris to humility.
    Let’s hope (for the sake of the Labor Party) that come Monday afternoon, Rudd finally “gets” the message.

  99. Miglo

    the people’s man but he had a 9% swing in his own electorate and if he is a qlder than explain the 5.5% swing

  100. talking about this rubbish of voting for the “man”

    do liberals vote for julie bishop as a “deputy” well shock horror if the libs get into govt, then there is a cute arrangement where the libs gift that deputy position to the national party. and what is the nation wide vote for nats well it is less than the greens.

    and am i right that for a more shocking idea even the leader of the libs recontests his position after an election.

    so stuff this idea that the People decide who is leader, about time the press corrected the public misconseption, among others

  101. Migs and “a new era for the party”.

    I think that the blame game is a pointless exercise which only serves to divide Labor. People were angry when Gillard ousted Kevin Rudd and now others are angry that Rudd has decided to challenge Gillard. But that’s democracy for you.

    The alternative is the Liberal Party and the election of Old Araldite Mark II aka Tony Abbott. Howard and now Abbott shore up their own positions of power by never making any changes, by never promoting anyone with any talent.

    I would rather see a bit of blood letting and a chance for renewal than to be stuck with a bucket of sludge.

  102. naskingasking I agree both Abbott and Rudd do share some obnoxious traits both have an unshakeable belief in their own superiority – a belief you also share. This is called Hubris

    Hubriss, means extreme haughtiness, pride or arrogance. Hubris often indicates a loss of contact with reality and an overestimation of one’s own competence or capabilities, especially when the person exhibiting it is in a position of power.

    Rudd has another exceptional quality he can “disguise” this from many other people. Eventually the mask slips and when this happens he unravels. Its is bound to happen to Abbott as well.

  103. I think that I can see where Nas’ is coming from – one can have the best policies in the world, but they aren’t worth the paper they’re written on if you can’t get yourself elected. Like it or not and probably going back to when Bob Hawke was elected, we have become more like the US with the focus not on policies but on the person. And Labor and Liberal supporters alike are guilty of that one.

    However, I think that we’re excused when it comes to Tony Abbott because of there being sweet ba policies to focus on. ;)

  104. I don’t have any power in choosing the “man or woman” for whom I vote. I am not a member of any political party and therefore do not get to take part in pre-selection ballots.

    Instead I am expected to vote for some turkey who has been nominated for a party.

    No matter who I vote for, a politician always get elected.

  105. BSA Bob

    They aren’t, in fact, being asked to move on, never really were.

    I suggest you scroll back to the many comments made about this over the years where I was told specifically by a number on this site to get over it and move on. So please do not tell me swinging voters were not told to do so. I am one of them,

    Arrogance from rusted on supporters towards the sceptical, is a byproduct from both sides of politics.

    Regarding taking on an an imperial tone please tell me who elects and removes a government other than swinging voter susch as myself. Rusted on cheer squads of the ALP or the Coalition do not alter the outcome. Those like myself who change their vote, make the difference. I am a swinging voter are you ?

    Parties may electy their leaders, but we go to an election with a presumtion that the leader of the party will be PM, all the huffing and bluster and claims to the contrary is irrelevent when the public think differently. While technically the party may decide the leader, Kevin Rudd was the first to be deposed in such a way and the outcome has been disastrous for the party. If you think otherwise then your own political blindness is blocking the truth.

    I have no doubt that if Malcolm Turnbull was Liberal leader and PM and was removed after being elected, by Tony Abbott in a sudden coup, then the cheer squad here would be howling to the rooftops, about betrayal of the voter and their expectations that Malcolm would be the PM for the term.

    I also will never vote for Tony Abbott I have disliked him since he entered parliament, not just since he became opposition leader. I abhorr aggresive, rude, underhanded, manipulative, loud and abusive politics, which is his game.

  106. so stuff this idea that the People decide who is leader, about time the press corrected the public misconseption, among others

    Kevin Rudd was the first leader deposed in such a manner, so while you keep harping on about the realities of politics you utterly ignore the peoples perception and do so at your peril.

    When a party puts up a leader the people presume that leader will be PM. The rest is just typical political waffle and bylaws which are of no consequence to voters. Unlees the ALP realises that after the tragic consequences of Kevin Rudds removal it will languish in opposition for a long long time.

    Trust is gone, no matter how much the true believers think otherwise and rather than ask what can we do to win back that trust the swinging voter is continually pointed out the legal aspects of who really elects the PM.

  107. Shane and “When a party puts up a leader the people presume that leader will be PM.” I think that this is the truth of the matter, people do have this expectation. I personally believe that Gillard should not have deposed Kevin Rudd. At the time the excuse/reason was that Rudd’s stocks had fallen and that Labor couldn’t win with him as PM, therefore it was NOT about policies, it was about personalities.

    And many are saying the same thing about Rudd now – it’s all about his personality.

    I would say to Rudd, two wrongs do not make a right. It is considered that Rudd is needed, due to his strong personal approval with the public which compares with Gillard’s. Here we go again..nothing about policies, all about personalities.

  108. I am amused by the Rudd team calling on all real Australians to contact their local representative and get behind Rudd.
    I thought about contacting Alby Schultz (Lib), but he is busy fighting the good fight against the Nationals.
    If only “Team” Rudd could harness Alan Jones and the convoy.
    Oh well I’ll just have to go to the Canberra Show for entertainment.

  109. Min

    So glad you agree regarding public perception of the leader. This is fact, the rest is political argy bargy.

    I agree it is now (sadly) about personalities, but it now seems the coup built up over a number of weeks, months and was not the sudden removal we were told.

    It appears that Julia fully participated in the coup for a long time. The public have been lied to and the truth is now suddenly leaking out for the worse about the coup.

    Her reputation will nosedive as the revelations of the coup continue to be revealed. She was given the benefit of the doubt but that benefit has now expired.

  110. It’ll be interesting to see who the Murdoch media swing behind, the one with the least chance of beating Abbott.

  111. AntonyG

    Yes it will be interesting who they support. I think they will simply play one against the other in an attempt to confuse the situation even further.

  112. Shane, that seems to be the case. The way that Gillard always explained it was that there was a sudden knock on the door and that she was told that Rudd was going to be rolled, and would she as Deputy assume the leadership. And there was also her complete denial, more likely to play centre for (and I’ve forgotten the name of the footie team). Yet Gillard has now admitted that she was a party to the coup.

    The vast majority of the JuLIAR tag was completely undeserved, the carbon tax – the link from the article at the oo is there for all to see, the other have been negotiations – either necessary compromises or completely unforeseen circumstances, such as the High Court ruling on the Malaysia Solution.

    There have been 2 things which for me have marred Gillard’s prime ministership, one is her failure to support gay marriage, the other trying to circumvent the High Court ruling with regard to unaccompanied minors (boat people), the latter I wrote an article on.

    However, back to the JuLIAR tag..enough mud and it sticks, and her recent admission hasn’t helped one iota.

    At this rate I’ll be voting Green..and there isn’t much point of doing that in the House of Reps given that I’m in a former National Party stronghold…

  113. Min

    I think the JuLIAR tag has always been very harsh. All politicians manipulate the truth and adjust or amend their promises.

    The one thing that will hurt her now is the fact that the removal of Kevin was pre meditated, it was underhanded and sneaky. We were lied to about the removal of our PM, not just a promise or policy but the removal of our PM.

  114. “Geoff, if I were to write to my local paper daily and predict a flood tomorrow, one day I’ll be right.That’s how this episode has unfolded. The media have been predicting it daily.”
    Miglo. aaaah. Now I understand. The weather Bureau is RESPONSIBLE for the weather.
    …So if the BOM got nasty and forecast a cyclone in Canberra it would happen.
    Let’s lobby the BOM and see if we can clense Canberra back to a sheep paddock. It was way more productive back then.

    “…Never interrupt your enemy while they are making mistakes.”
    Abbott and co can take a long weekend and some DOIL time. He is not needed for a month or so.

  116. Tweed, you’ve had difficulty grasping a simple analogy. How much more simpler do I need to be?

    And you’ve never been to Canberra. I can tell. ;-)

  117. Has anyone mentioned that Rudd could be the bigger man, step to the back bench and wait…patiently? If Gillard wins the next election he can bide his time, if not he is then poised to take over the leadership and win…and probably win well after the mess Abbot will make of the country. This kind of upheaval is bad to the country; he has a chance to be the Bigger man for the sake of the country which will garner well regardless of an election outcome. If they can run for President of the US in their 70’s Rudd still has plenty of time and can come out smelling like a rose instead of as a revengeful, cranky man. IMHO

  118. in addition the conversation across the board has been, they all want the big job, Gillard Rudd and Howard, doesn’t anyone care about the country and it’s people… as I said he could come out of this well as long as he is patient.

  119. Courtesy of Jack W* on Australians for an Honest Media FB group:

    From someone at the ABC news wall:

    DISGUSTED with Chris Uhlmann’s totally biased comment on ABC breakfast drawing a parallel with Aquino/Marcos “to get rid of another hated dictator”. Do you think the ABC might be able to give him a Liberal Party flag to wave when he is on? I thought the ABC was supposed to be unbiased.

  120. Signe, Rudd might do that but I am thinking that if Labor loses that he will be looking to further his career possibly with the UN or an ambassadorship such as he awarded to his mate Big Kim Beazley.

    I think that Gillard would not be Leader of the Opposition, especially if as predicted Labor is going to be decimated at the next election. However she may choose to take up a shadow portfolio, perhaps back into industrial relations which is of course her forté.

    I think the next Labor leader of any opposition will be one of the up and comers as Labor will want to distance itself from the old Rudd/Gillard row.

  121. Naskingasking, @ 3.13am, I thought you were describing Tony Abbott

    to show her own…petty, nasty, annoyingly loud, testy, brittle side.

  122. Min, I noticed on Twitter last night that there were large numbers of Uhlmann critics with the same opinion.

    Uhlmann consistently interrupts people trying to answer his questions, and he is a classic example of what’s happened to the ABC which is now Howard’s Murdoch Lite.

    The ABC’s Insiders is a talkfest come propaganda tool for Murdoch’s minions, and I noticed this week that Barrie Cassidy appeared on Channel TEN and 3AW. …
    The ABC24 News is hopelessly addicted to “the Opposition says”, hopelessly addicted to Tony Abbott’s media tart performances, and never scrutinise or
    challenge Liberal statements, which is a disgrace.

  123. “Either way, let us embrace it as a new era for the Party.”

    Miglo,
    Here here.

    Abbott looked very worried this morning.

    I also noticed that the head of Murdoch’s Newspoll pretty well promoted Abbott last nite…tells me everything…

    We need to bring Rudd in ASAP…

    get on w/ pushing the important bills thru…promoting the FAIR GO policies.

    And then Rudd can get out there for Anna Bligh in QLD. Spread THE SHINE.

    The chronic headache I’ve had since Rudd’s knifing is easing…seeing him speaking comfortably, realistically, determined, bravely, humourously w/ the beaut & loyal Thérèse by his side…well it warmed my heart…

    I feel LIGHTER…

    it ignited my passion..

    I’m motivated…

    to WIN.

    Kick Abbott’s butt into the next decade. :)

    Great to have Nick Champion & Ed Husic on board the good ship Ruddy.

    N’

  124. “But that’s democracy for you.”

    Min,
    Ain’t democracy wonderful!

    Better having this robust yet non-violent battle than the kind of stuff we’re seeing in Syria.

    I’m more excited than I have been for a long time.

    We’re gonna POUND that CHARLATAN Abbott…the OPPORTUNISTIC WEATHERVANE.

    Luv It!

    N’

  125. “I thought you were describing Tony Abbott

    to show her own…petty, nasty, annoyingly loud, testy, brittle side.”

    Pip,
    That doesn’t begin to describe Abbott. :)

    Add,
    rich mining barons’ sycophant…
    zealot
    missionary in yer ovaries
    Howard’s boil
    paranoid android
    shock & bore
    marathon mouth
    terror train weathervane
    Mr. NoChoices
    Howard’s wrecking ball
    Lead balloon
    Smuggler of inflexible work conditions
    Say one thing, do another
    Coalition snake
    Workers’ nightmare
    Negabore

    That’s for starters. :)

    N’

  126. How are you going Nasking?

    I can no longer share your enthusiasm for Mr. Rudd.

    He had a crack at Julia Gillard about “hand on heart” saying she was loyal to
    him, and I might be one of a small number who believe her, but I do believe
    her. She has said that she tried very hard to keep his ship going under difficult circumstances.
    The cross benchers comments say it best and that is that she consults, she listens etc., and gets the jobs done.

    From what has been said by numerous people, repeatedly, Mr. Rudd ran a chaotic, dysfunctional office and didn’t listen to anyone.

  127. “How are you going Nasking?”

    Improving by the day Pip. Thnx for asking.

    BTW, I’m really proud of you & others here at the Cafe…you’ve been putting up some wonderful posts.

    Migs, Min & I had our differences, that happens when you are as busy as we were starting up a beaut blog and keeping it running (like a family business), as you well know…

    I was very ill the last year (more than I realised) and extremely fatigued when I left here so I probably over-reacted. It happens. Especially when yer not sleeping well and exercising enuff. And feeling underneath very disappointed that my fave pollie was stabbed in the back by others I respected. I really missed Ruddy…and even tho I supported Gillard as much as I could it all felt HOLLOW.

    During a break from the superb blog The Political Sword over Xmas last year I began watching the regular news…doin’ less research than I normally do…and I went to a number of functions chatting to regular folk…and began to see that many felt like I did.

    That’s why I decided to push for Rudd…but also show doubts, bring up a third candidate idea…push a few buttons to get reactions, feedback, watch media & public reaction, online & off…

    And when I woke up from a DEEP three hour sleep yesterday arvo I had a smile on my face…knew I had my answers…saw the road to an ALP win…

    and Rudd was my man to achieve it…as I suspected over Xmas.

    Anyway, the treadmill has been great. And I’m now on a special diet…all typed out and made into a booklet w/ the help of my wonderful friend & wife S’.

    Anyway, it’s nice to be back.

    I’ll pop in when I can.

    S’s b’day tomorrow…heading off to Sizzlers w/ her family…can’t wait. Be a nice diet cheat. We luv filling our plates w/ salad stuff, pasta & tatters. YUM. And S’ luvs the desserts…as does her Mum.

    BTW, if we can cross that bridge & makeup…so can the ALP…we’re all ADULTS.

    The main thing is we rid this country of the Abbott threat.

    Migs, I luv the cafe pics you’ve been using. Top stuff.

    Min, yer disability-related posts etc. are brill.

    As are Patricia’s poems…just wish she’d give Ruddy a break. :) Ain’t political battles fun? Gets the blood rushing. :)

    Well done to all on here.

    BTW, Imagine how exhausting it was for Rudd as PM…dealing w/ the GFC…the change of government w/ heads who’d been under Howard…having to communicate policies w/ a media so dominated by the Murdoch empire…watching his back for those who made it clear from the start he wasn’t their ideal Labor dude…watching the Chinese & USA screw him over on the ETS…and then after all that work seeing Abbott stab his ETS ally Turnbull…and watching the NSW disease stuff up some of the insulation stuff…having Arbib farting on to the Yanks behind his back…woulda been exhausting.

    I reckon Rudd w/ Shorten as Treasurer and Combet as Industrial Relations/Climate change reform and Tanya Plibersek in Health & Albanes in Infrastructure would be a mighty team.

    N’

  129. And we need to remember that Rudd will now have a much friendlier Senate.
    No Family First dope to deal with.

    It’s one reason that Gillard has got the carbon price thru.

    N’

  130. It doesn’t surprise me that Shorten is supporting Gillard for now…he’s Hawke’s man…waiting to takeout Gillard closer to the election.

    He’d rather be leader than Rudd’s Treasurer…but he may have to compromise soon enuff. :)

    N’

  131. So Rudd has mental health issues according to John Mendoza

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-02-24/live-blog-labor-at-war/3849716

    can’t say I am surprised by the revelation.

    His Labor colleagues have been trying to “protect” him, but with Abbott “in your guts you know he’s nuts” is a fair call?.

    For the record, having mental health problems should be no bar to high office in this country (IMO). However it is not a good idea to put someone back in the job who clearly can’t cope with the pressure and may have their condition deteriorate.

  134. Well, I’m with nasking.

    There’s enough scuttlebutt flying around about both candidates now to make the case that are equally flawed, but I’m really only interested in who can short-circuit Abbott.

    It’s a game of odds, and I think the odds favour Rudd.

    I’d hoped that the policies in the pipeline might’ve been given a chance to turn Labor’s fortunes around but events have moved too quickly. Once again the Labor caucus jumped at shadows.

    It’s unrealistic to expect Rudd to go to the backbench and not attract further and ongoing attention from the media, regardless of how he plays it. He could try Bradbury’s tattoo idea…

    As a Gillard admirer my heart wants her to win on Monday, but my head tells me differently. It may well be a pyrrhic victory.

  135. There will be many changes after next Monday. Not all that many will want or even imagine can occur.

    Mr. Rudd should have made his run much earlier and done it in the open. Destroying what you want to get it, is a trait that both Mr. Rudd and Mr. Abbott share..

    It was not faceless men that got rid of Mr. Rudd, it was his fellow MP’s.

    Do we want years of instability. If not, lay the blame at those who have bought the country to this state. That is Rudd and Abbott.

    Abbott sought to reinforce his message that the Gillard administration lacks legitimacy because of the 2010 election result, telling reporters that Rudd was the last prime minister with a mandate from the voters.

    Besides undoing the carbon and mining taxes, Abbott’s platform includes reviewing the government’s national broadband network plan and reversing means-testing on rebates for private health insurance — legislation that Gillard won passage of on Feb. 15 in the lower house.

    Abbott also plans to introduce a parental leave program financed by an increase in the company tax rate. During the 2010 campaign, he made “family” values one of his themes. Gillard is the first Australian prime minister who isn’t married, and she doesn’t have children.

    One immediate outcome of Feb. 27 may be a shift in cabinet members as the winner considers the comments made and votes cast in the contest.

    “There has to be and will be a major reshuffle,” predicted Hughes. “Voters will have to get used to new ministers in different portfolios.”

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-02-23/gillard-rudd-rift-toughens-labor-s-task-to-sell-australia-on-another-term.html

  136. Nas’ and Abbott looked very worried this morning.” Best news I’ve heard all day. :D

    And…

    I feel LIGHTER…

    it ignited my passion..

    I’m motivated…

    to WIN.

    Kick Abbott’s butt into the next decade.

    And the bear kickin’ butt is a sight to behold. :D

  137. So stage craft is what is important. How one does the jopb is no longer important.

    Poltics is seen as no more than entertainment. What a sad day.

    Late last year, former Prime Minister Paul Keating attended a major business dinner and told those who were listening that Julia Gillard “had not enough stagecraft skill to get herself out of this hole”.

    I must emphasise that I was not at the dinner but I quote from an indirect source because Keating got it right. When you think about the Keating conclusion (made well before the current crisis), suddenly the current events make a lot more sense.

    In contrast to Julia Gillard, Kevin Rudd has excellent stagecraft, which helps explain his personal popularity. In the latest battle he timed his resignation as Foreign Minister for the 6pm TV news. It was brilliant stagecraft.

    http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/Gillard-Rudd-Keating-politics-leadership-PM-stage–pd20120224-RRQZ4?opendocument&src=idp&utm_source=exact&utm_medium=email&utm_content=16507&utm_campaign=kgb&modapt=commentary

  139. Albanese is ‘reportedly’ leaning towards Rudd which means some others i his faction will follow, probably…

  141. Thanks, Sue – I think that link should be spread far and wide, as well as the idea that Rudd needs medical help. It’s easy to see how madmen get control of whole countries with less safeguards than we have. Delusions of grandeur here for sure and it’s good that Mendoza has made those comments. Let’s hope we get more of them.

    I hadn’t quite reached that point in my thinking in my own notes on
    http://polliepomes.wordpress.com/2012/02/23/why-aint-rudd-dead/ when I suggested that the first question that needed to be asked about him now was

    “How can a dysfunctional and untrustworthy human being take over leadership of a party where he is largely loathed by most of his colleagues”

    He’d have to be borderline certifiable to even contemplate challenging in those circumstances.

  142. Technology ministers strongly back Gillard
    http://delimiter.com.au/2012/02/23/technology-ministers-strongly-back-gillard/

    The Federal Government’s cadre of Labor Ministers most involved with the technology portfolio have emerged as strong backers of Julia Gillard in the Prime Minister’s tussle with rival Kevin Rudd which erupted last night following Rudd’s resignation as Foreign Minister.

    Speaking on ABC Radio’s AM program this morning, Communications Minister Stephen Conroy accused Rudd of perpetuating “a complete and utter fraud” on the Australian Labor Party over the mandatory pre-commitment technology for poker machines which the Gillard Government had been attempting to implement with the support of independent MP Andrew Wilkie.

    Conroy accused Rudd’s camp of meeting with industry lobby group Clubs Australia on the issue. “Kevin Rudd’s supporters were walking around caucus saying look, dump Wilkie, I’ll make this go away,” the Minister said. “The Australian public needs to know what’s been going on here.”

    Asked whether his statements were borne out of an attempt to protect his own status, Conroy said his efforts were aimed at protecting the Gillard Government’s reform program — including the carbon tax, the disabilities insurance scheme, and the key project for Conroy’s own portfolio — the National Broadband Network policy.

  144. I urge all Rudd supporters to listen to John Mendoza, one of Australia’s leading mental health care professionals talk about Rudd.

    The guy should not be put back in the job for his own sake as well as that of the country.

    The question of his mental health also throws into doubt the judgement of all those espousing a return to Rudd chaos.

  145. Cu, they were called faceless men because they were saying to Rudd’s face that they fully supported him as Prime Minister but behind his back were plotting to oust him.

    I am sorry that this whole thing has come to this – my first preference would have been that Gillard would have supported Rudd, irrespective of Rudd’s ‘poor showing’ in the polls. My second preference is that both Gillard and Rudd would have shown a united front, similar to what they did at the time of the Brisbane flood..thereby telling the pundits to stick it.

    And now it feels as if the original knifing is coming back to haunt the Labor Party with Rudd making a play for the leadership – and once again due only to the ‘poor showing’ in the polls.

  146. OK. Let’s have a look at the facts of what HAS happened in the last 12 months…
    + National healthcare
    + Labor’s Tax take 21.75% of GDP Vs 25% under Liberals
    + BER saves $1 billion a fortnight in unemployment
    + Govt deficit is 3.4% of GDP and compares to deficits of over 10 per cent of GDP in the US and UK
    + Lowest net government debt of all AAA rated economies
    + 63 New regional cancer centres
    + 850,000 fulltime jobs in 4 years
    + Unemployment half the world average
    + Lowest interest rates in 60 years
    + iiNet predicts 27% cost drop on NBN
    + Infrastructure budget tripled
    + Doubled funding to Health
    + Doctor training places doubled
    + Double funding to Education
    + $2.2 billion mental health package.
    + Increase in Family Tax Benefit (FTB) an additional $4,200 a year for each eligible teenager that stays in school
    + Banning mortgage exit fees on new loans.
    + Construction of Solar Dawn renewable energy facility with billions of commercial investment.
    + For the whole of the 2010-2011 financial year, the economy grew 1.8 per cent
    + The Atlantic magazine named Gillard as one of its “2011 brave thinkers” for her resolute strength in pushing through a carbon tax
    + Wayne Swann named as World Finance Minister of the year
    + The Credit Suisse 2011 Global Wealth report revealed that Australia’s median wealth is the highest in the world at US $220,000
    + Trade Surplus – the biggest surplus in raw terms for the past 40 years of records compiled by the ABS
    + The number of people filling for bankruptcy in Australia has fallen by 16%
    + business investment spending is expected to grow by 15 per cent this year and another 15 per cent next year. – Ross Gittin
    + Only time in Australian history we have AAA credit rating from all three Global Credit Agencies.
    + Proposes conscience vote on same sex marriages.

    Julia is doing a GREAT job under extremely difficult circumstances.
    Why would we want Rudd?
    Where are the media on all of these achievements?

  147. Luna, Is Mendoza Kevin Rudd and family’s health professional? If Mendoza is giving away personal information, he should be careful about litigation.

  148. Rudd going on about “faceless men” threatening pre-selection for those who support him.
    Kevin mate you should get back in touch with Belinda Neal and ask about her pre-selection.

  149. Hmmm! dilema for me as he is my local member, having tried to sit back on the issue I have to unfortunately look at it without blinkers and although I like the man, can I really vote for him again after listening to John Mendoza,

    David Marr also alluded to some of the same symptoms as Mendoza pointed to

    This Sux!!

  150. Keith, how very nice to see you here. Julia IMO is doing a magnificent job. Julia’s biggest problem is the ‘who evers’ who are advising her on promoting herself and her policies.

    Now we may not like this, but if one has an excellent product it’s fairly pointless sitting on one’s derrier and saying, Oh look I have a wonderful product – one has to get out there and sell, sell, sell.

    To me the current Labor crew are guilty of sudden spurts of action, followed by not-too-much-at-all.

  151. Sad isn’t it, a smear campaign run by Labor against Labor. Rudd has “symptoms”, according to who? Those who seek to promote themselves and who are part of the media.

    David Marr to my knowledge has absolutely no qualifications regarding mental health – Mendoza did a huge dummy spit previously on not getting his own way regarding policy and ended up siding with Abbott because Abbott promised him more $$s for his pet project.

  152. BTW,
    remember how much Obama struggled dealing w/ the GFC…after two+ years he was accused of being paralysed, leading from behind…he had the usual suspect media all over him…his polls went down…

    imagine if the Democratic Party could’ve/had axed him?

    What a disaster that would’ve been…he perservered…got some sleep…took some hols & trips…built on his confidence, changed some staff…learnt from his mistakes…now flying well.

    Rudd shoulda been given that chance. Gillard shoulda negotiated a break for him…using her skills…

    instead, the ALP got too impatient.

    It’s cost them bigtime.

    Regardless of the bills flowing now…the people can’t forgive Gillard & the factional union bosses. Abbott will win by default if Ruddy is not brought back.

    Imagine how DEFLATED the voters will be if he doesn’t get the leadership back.

    Labor thinks its in trouble now. Abbott will be LARFING…all the way to the winner’s box.

    If Rudd wins the leadership back…there will be a SHINE he can spread.

    Abbott will panic bigtime…as will his party.

    N’

  155. “I think that link should be spread far and wide, as well as the idea that Rudd needs medical help. It’s easy to see how madmen get control of whole countries with less safeguards than we have.”

    Hmmm…

    From Kim Carr’s article (posted by the brill Lyn at TPS):

    “As to the rules of engagement over the next few days — there needs to be respect for the integrity of all those who have different views on these questions. Personal vilification and denigration of senior party members cannot possibly be defended. We should all remember that we have to work together after these events are over. The party lives on long after we have all left the parliament.”

    Makes sense to me.

    Pretty low stuff by some methinks. Desperate.

    N’

  156. Min. luna said

    His Labor colleagues have been trying to “protect” him, but with Abbott “in your guts you know he’s nuts” is a fair call?.

    For the record, having mental health problems should be no bar to high office in this country (IMO). However it is not a good idea to put someone back in the job who clearly can’t cope with the pressure and may have their condition deteriorate.

    On one hand Rudd’s former adviser decides to go public about an alleged mental health issue, on the other Abbott doesn’t appear to be suffering from any mental illness by a long shot, but he does have a very dangerous personality!

    It sounds to me as if in Kevin rudd’s case it became a case of
    “the hurrieder he went, the behinder he got”, which is sad considering the good things he did, as per the parts of Keith Warren’s list @ 2.01pm.

  158. Nas’..remember how the oo made Kevin Australian of the Year for his handling of the GFC crisis..following a full-on smear campaign against him.

    I don’t know that Rudd has got the numbers, and I suspect that Gillard will hold her ground.

    The thing that concerns me is the fact that there is an Abbott-style smear campaign against Rudd.. makes me a bit concerned about just where the smears originate from.

    From youngest E* (in Brisbane) who handed out for Rudd ’07..the attacks against Rudd supporters have been..well, not nice.

    Nas’ glad to see you up and about, and taking the doctor’s advice about you know what..I’m certain that S* will supervise. ;)

  160. Thanks for that list, Keith. And for the affirmation! Good work.

    Min, I don’t think that the mental health issue is just another political weapon. I think it’s a real question that needs a response. It would explain so much about Rudd. I only had it in my mind until now only as a rhetorical question……Who but a madman would seek leadership of a party where so many influential members of it loathe him……????

    I can now see it is a legitimate issue and one that should be raised in appropriate quarters..

  162. Patricia, why would a person’s health issues be relevant? Or a person’s disabilities be relevant? Or a person’s colour? Or a person’s sexual orientation?

    Why would speculation aimed as an attack against an individual be relevant? Remember, this in NOT coming from Kevin Rudd and family’s health professional, this is speculation coming from people with an agenda.

  163. To be instilling doubt in the mental capacity of Kevin Rudd, is in my opinion nasty bitter muck raking of the worst kind.

    The cheer squad here would be up in arms if Tony Abbott threw such crap yet are more than happy to sling it at their own.

    Honestly do the muck slingers have morals or just a narrow minded political agenda which rules their lives in total ?

    Seems like spite and bitterness of the nastiest type overflows here as well.

  164. Shane, it seems a bit of a continuum doesn’t it. The old smear campaigns against Rudd – they couldn’t get him with the Milky Bar Kid guffaws, they couldn’t get him with a 7yr old story about Scores, they tried earwax, they tried questioning his childhood memories, they tried disgrunted 2nd cousins, they tried the ‘living off the millionaire wife’ thing, they tried..well I’m sure that there were many more.

  165. Min

    What amazes me is that it is not the coalition doing this but segments of his own party.

    While Kevin was PM they should have issued ultimatums and given him time to bend. Apparently he was warned and told to chnage and given some time but then that time was withdrawn and he was simply removed with no time to reform his style.

    If you want a tree to conform to your shape you make it alter by trimming and shaping and giving it time. You don’t lance it to the ground in one swoop just because you are having difficulties and start again

  166. Shane the cafe crowd are barrackers for what they consider is a good cause. Morals have nothing to do with politics, but you are correct in thinking the inhabitants of this small shed have ‘a narrow minded political agenda which rules their lives in total ?’

  168. Shaneinqld,

    I’m a dyed in the wool Labor supporter, and agree with you, who ever is dredging up the smears against Kevin Rudd is not doing Julia Gillard any favours.

  169. el gordo

    Your (and others) continuing spiteful, bitter and personal attacks on the group here at the cafe, over at gutter trash are not unnoticed by myself.

    So your own moral and narrow mind is just as bad.

    Your inability to examine both sides of politics and debate issues are no less diehard than many on this site. Climtae Change for one springs to mind.

    Now run back to the Gutter Trash big shed and trash all of us with nasty childish backyard comments worthy of behind the primary school toilet.

  170. Today on the Labor website there is much to read about action on Mental Health policy and implementation…..

    http://www.alp.org.au:6020/search/?searchtext=mental+health&searchmode=AnyWord

    Further to Min’s comment about John Mendoza @ 2.19pm.

    Mendoza did a huge dummy spit previously on not getting his own way regarding policy and ended up siding with Abbott because Abbott promised him more $$s for his pet project.

    Mr. Mendoza attacked both former PM Rudd and PM Gillard for their handling of Mental Health policy.

    Band-Aid for broken mental health system John Mendoza
    July 29, 2010

    Opinion
    http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/politics/bandaid-for-broken-mental-health-system-20100728-10w1u.html

    The PM’s policy is the same tired old approach that’s failed for decades.

    On taking office, Julia Gillard was quick to announce the government had “lost its way” on several issues. We in the mental health community were excited about the prospect of her leadership – as the daughter of a psychiatric nurse and as a former shadow minister for health, she has a strong background on the issue.

    The Labor government, under Gillard and Kevin Rudd, was given more advice on mental health than any previous government. Gillard surely knows the challenges faced every day by Australians when it comes to mental health and well-being. Yet, following her first speech on the topic and Labor’s announcement on Tuesday, there is still no clear vision – only a token commitment to a sadly mistreated sector.

    .

  171. Shaneinqld,

    You better watch it, you could be next on the spite agenda if you stand up for anyone on this blog. However, I consider that like myself you have a hide thicker than a rhinosaurus.

    As a bit of an observer of human nature I couldn’t help but notice the obsession some have with this blog. Don’t these people have anything better to do with their time than perve and do critiques on Cafe Whispers. One criticism of this blog is that it’s just backwater, so why are they so obsessed some sort of lovers quarrel. The Gutter Trash big shed reminds me of my ex.

  172. AntonyG

    You may be a diehard Labor supporter but you can see the damage that is being done, but hopefully you can also see the damage that was done to the swinging voters now that the truth about Kevins removal is unfolding. We were told it was instant and Julia had no choice. That balloon has been burst along with the trust we had in Julia.

    Irrespective of policies and getting things done, the trust factor has flown out the window for those of us who change our vote.

  173. Pip, precisely my point – Mendoza is a lobbyist.

    Nas’ @ 2.27pm:

    “I think that link should be spread far and wide, as well as the idea that Rudd needs medical help. It’s easy to see how madmen get control of whole countries with less safeguards than we have.”

    Hmmm…

    From Kim Carr’s article (posted by the brill Lyn at TPS):

    “As to the rules of engagement over the next few days — there needs to be respect for the integrity of all those who have different views on these questions. Personal vilification and denigration of senior party members cannot possibly be defended. We should all remember that we have to work together after these events are over. The party lives on long after we have all left the parliament.”

    Makes sense to me.

    Pretty low stuff by some methinks. Desperate.

  174. Shaneinqld,

    I understand the concept of swinging voters, but cannot, in spite of everything which Rudd and Gillard may have done, understand why Tony Abbott would make a better Prime Minister. I have challenged a number of my right wing friends on this on a couple of occasions, not to often because I might piss them off completely. Not even my rusted on Liberal friends can tell me why Tony Abbott deserves to become Prime Minister.

  175. As a person who has suffered from mental illness I can say that it cuts fairly deep when people take a fancy to ridiculing you.

    Then I realized its only a demonstration of their own insecurities. Then I stopped listening to them. Their opinions aren’t important. Neither are they.

  176. AntonyG

    I still go over to Gutter Trash as I maintain that Reb is a good writer and he has made me laugh out loud many times. He has a way with words in many of his reports.

    It saddens me to still see the spite and childish comments from a number of them regarding the cafe on an almost daily basis.

    There are just as many blind coalition supporters over there as there is blind labor supporters over here but I don’t see this site gossiping and spitefully commenting about them and their one sided blind faith comments on a daily basis. Not yet anyway.

  178. Shane, we won’t ever stoop that low. We might lose our cool at times and overstep the mark, but that is a rarity. And it’s always been in response to the primary school behaviour.

    It’s best ignored. Nay, I find it best avoided.

  179. AntonyG

    I will never vote for Tony Abbott. He should not be PM. He is an attack politician of the most negative and destructive kind. I have not liked his politcial style since he entered parliament. Malcolm Turnbull on the other hand is another story and would secure my vote.I even liked Brendan Nelson.

    Tony Abbott only secured the leadership during a coup as well so he is simply wanting the top job out of ego as well.

    It remains to be seen as to who will be the Coalition leader when the next election comes around.

  180. ‘Your inability to examine both sides of politics and debate issues are no less diehard than many on this site. Climate Change for one springs to mind.’

    That is untrue, I have always supported the ALP and have moved to the right because of the tax on carbon dioxide.

    If Rudd had stayed in the big seat, the ETS shelved, the party would be heading for victory at the next election.

  182. Shaneinqld,

    I agree, great topics on a few occasions but then the blog degenerates into sarcasm, intalk and personal abuse.

    Miglo,

    I suffered from a mental illness myself, had a breakdown when I was a teenager for reasons I won’t go into here. The brain is the same as any other part of the body, it heals given time and the right sort of care. Those who use another person’s mental illness, Rudd’s anyone’s as a weapon against that person can just get fucked as far as I’m concerned.

  183. Min asks

    ……why would a person’s health issues be relevant? Or a person’s disabilities be relevant? Or a person’s colour? Or a person’s sexual orientation?

    I guess being black or colorblind or homosexual should be irrelevant. But sanity is a necessary qualification for the job of PM,. wouldn’t you say?

    Anyway, all of this is now academic. Somehow Mr. Rudd has been persuaded that he’s in with a chance on Monday, agreed to stand and on the terms the PM has set out, ie, that the result will be final and there will be no more challenges.

    So we can stop arguing, have a good weekend and come back refreshed for a new world on Monday..

  184. “remember how the oo made Kevin Australian of the Year for his handling of the GFC crisis..following a full-on smear campaign against him.”

    Min,
    I do indeed…remember when we predicted that The Oz was preparing to carpet bomb him?

    I reckon his speech was brill…and a superb attack on Abbott.

    But it seems this party is willing to throw him to the wolves.

    As I said at TPS Quite frankly, I’m beginning to think that some who support Gillard are stooping so low they are no better than the Abbott forces.

    Such grotesque negativity. Dimming THE LIGHT.

    If Rudd loses on Monday I will stop blogging…full stop.

    I’m not interested in wasting my time any longer.

    The Gillard zealots can take full responsibility for the inevitable loss.

    Abbott must be more relieved by the hour as he hears these ALPers and others come out and attack Rudd w/ such viciousness…hear these ministers back Gillard…the PM who has become his path to his win.

    If Bill Shorten thinks he can knife Gillard down the road and win he is kidding himself…seeing as he is percieved as one of the big knifers…and a fairly average parliamentary performer. He’s not ready for the leadership. He’s years off.

    Kevin Rudd took it to Abbott today…effectively.

    When Gillard goes after Abbott I either yawn…or turn the volume down because her & Abbott sound like they’re battling over custody of a kid called Australia…it’s irritating for people whose families have divorced. And goes nowhere. Abbott loves ranting.

    I’ve noticed that since Rudd effectively went after Abbott today SKY NEWS are using every Rudd critic possible to denigrate him…

    that should tell you something Labor.

    As for Marr, he’s no friend of the ALP in the long run. A complete turkey.

    Min,
    I can totally relate to how yer youngest E* is feeling. Disgusting stuff. Makes me ashamed to be part of the Left.

    Thnx for yer kind, supportive words. I hope you & yer good family are well too.

    I’m off the day.

    Chow. It was fun. Until I read about the mental illness accusations. My gawd, how low can people stoop?
    N’

  185. el gordo

    How on earth can you claim to have always supported the ALP if you are against carbon tax and climate change, two of the most significant policy differences between the ALP and the coalition for many years.

  186. “As a person who has suffered from mental illness I can say that it cuts fairly deep when people take a fancy to ridiculing you.

    Then I realized its only a demonstration of their own insecurities. Then I stopped listening to them. Their opinions aren’t important. Neither are they.”

    Migs,
    I couldn’t agree more.

    N’

  187. Patricia and..

    I guess being black or colorblind or homosexual should be irrelevant. But sanity is a necessary qualification for the job of PM,. wouldn’t you say?

    Patricia, I think that you should go and reassess your values where you equate mental illness with “sanity”.

  191. We’ll just have to wait for someone with a computer with no audio deficit and a kind soul with excellent hearing :smile:

  192. Interesting observation from a tweeter

    John Hanna ‏ @John_Hanna
    Reply RetweetedRetweet Delete FavoritedFavorite · Close Open Details

    So @Kruddmp’s presser stopped the Cricket. @JuliaGillard’s presser gets summarised during #Drinks ??? How odd

  193. Pip and..

    We’ll just have to wait for someone with a computer with no audio deficit and a kind soul with excellent hearing

    Pip…you could be waiting a while around this place…how about 2 outa 3..

  194. Nasking,

    Your comment “If Rudd loses on Monday I will stop blogging…full stop.

    I’m not interested in wasting my time any longer.”

    I’ll be leaving with you Nasking. I’ve had a gut full of the trash coming from Gillard supporters, you name the muck they’ve thrown at those who wanted to give Kevin Rudd a fair hearing and they’ve thrown it.

  195. AntonyG and Nasking

    Why stop blogging ?. All you will be doing is depriving other Rudd supporters of your opinions and viewpoints.

    I respect the decision of others to support Julia provided they do not resort to personal denigratrion of Kevin.

  196. After due consideration, I will as an author have to make a decision. I have spent many hours supporting Julia Gillard, however the abuse thrown at Rudd supporters makes it difficult for me to continue to support a Labor government. I will be giving this some thought over the next day or so…I more than anything want to stop Tony Abbott from ever becoming Prime Minister, but not at the expense of people trolling the gutter for abuse such as I’ve seen here in the past day or so.

    With regrets, I will leave. Hopefully, as per Nasking we’ll be back to fight the good fight in the near future.

  197. I have been out and not up to date what has occurred in the last few hours.

    We have a PM according to many, that does not have stage skills,. does not have political nous. Is not politically adept.

    Does that mean we have what we see, a PM that believes and getting things done is important. One who has no political wiles. One that believe you should be judged by your results.

    One who Does not like playing political games. Does not believe that acting skills are needed. One who does not ring the media bosses to signal her next move.

    Does that mean, if one cannot con, they are no good as a PM.

    I like what we have now.

    Have just seen Rudd on TV. He sure is confident that he is going to be appointed to save the country,

    Politics is about numbers, but it is also about the art of getting things done.

    I hope all those gays out there are working on their emails to the members of caucus.

    With this PM you have some hope. With Abbott and Rudd, you have none.

    I believe we can wave good byes to much this PM has done.

  198. ‘…is it your opposition to the carbon tax or your denial of climate change that drives you?’

    I would like to thank the member for Miglo on his Dorothy Dix.

    As most here are aware my grouch is with the Klimatariat who are in denial about the role of the sun in heating the earth.

  199. ‘…carbon tax and climate change, two of the most significant policy differences between the ALP and the coalition for many years.’

    The coal miners and agrarian socialists stood shoulder to shoulder at the NSW election to send a message to Canberra.

    CO2 does not cause global warming.

  200. El gordo I think that you were told to fuck off until you can raise your standards a bit.

    Shane said, Now run back to the Gutter Trash big shed and trash all of us with nasty childish backyard comments worthy of behind the primary school toilet.

    That’s your modus operandi, the class snitch. Come back when you can you can restrain yourself from your tattle tail habits.

    I’ve read some comments from you and they’re ok when the mood takes you. Give it a try, challenge us with real opinions. I know you’re capable.

  202. The coal miners and agrarian socialists stood shoulder to shoulder at the NSW election to send a message to Canberra.

    Coal miners ( read frightened workers told of massive job losses which did not and will not eventuate)

    Agrarian Socialists ( Read Diehard National Party Members )

  203. Why on earth would you chuck it in, Min?

    It’s really up to Caucus to decide, not posters on a blog … they are the people who have to work with the ALP Leader …

    Taking Gillard or Rudd’s “side” is irrelevant … I bet there will be a few more ALP leaders before I’m finished (I hope so, anyway!)…

    I was once told, “I’d sooner work with great people in a lousy workplace, than with lousy people in a great work place … ” Caucus will decide … and quite frankly, so they should … its their workplace …

    … while I reserve to the right to criticise individual poor performers (Peter Garrett springs to mind) … I still support the ALP … I repeat, the ALP … over the Coalition …

    What you all seem to be doing (Rudd and Gillard supporters) is exactly what you are criticising others for …

    Whatever happens, come Monday … the ALP will still be there … with A leader …

  204. TB

    We all have a right to criticise, but I think the final line is when we start to demonise and personalise.

    What has firmly changed my mind is the fact the knifing of Kevin was pre medidated for some time and not the immediate removal we were led to believe.

  207. TB..and Why on earth would you chuck it in, Min? Let me count the ways.. Let’s start with ‘stealing’ email addresses shall we. Everyone involved knows the lies. As everyone has known for eons, it was only one email address and I was the culprit..how dare I send out an invitation. Shoot me! And they have. And the rest, you would have had to have been deaf, dumb and blind not to have noticed.

    I guess enough becomes enough.

    I dare say that I will be back into the fray soon enough.

  208. min
    i would never criticise a person on illness, i would hope those closest would see the pressures and assist.
    the john mendoza interview was him seeing and stating that rudd was not coping, rudd’s colleagues protected this side of rudd from the general public at the expense of the party, their own person and electoral polling. Consider gillard ever since june 2010 she has copped the labesl of back stabber, bitch,juliar and on and on, but she has worked and accomplished implementation of policy that benefit all australians. but rudd has never accepted what those around him had to deal with and has had an out and out attack on gillard, the govt and the labor party. he undermined the campaign, and rudd all but confirmed the leaking and undermining by his not denying it and worse still reminding journalists that there ethics are that they MUST protect their sorces.

  210. “I didn’t realize that mental health issues, any more than any other disability were a valid form of attack”

    I agree completely, unless the disability impugns on one’s judgement or ability to do the job.

    We do not let blind men drive.

    I have always suspected, owing to Mr. Rudd’s lack of sleep and the way he drives himself. burn out might have been a problem.

    There is no disgrace if there was the case.

    When burn out occurs, one can find themselves obsessed with problems, working at a hectic pace, around the clock.

    One finds that they cannot make decisions and often become paranoid, leading to working harder.

    Whatever occurred, it appears that those who deposed him did not put the boot in after he was gone. The opposite was true, they bent over to help and keep him happy.

  211. My misunderstanding, Min … I thought you were referring to the Rudd/Gillard fracas … although there are some similarities …

  213. What i want to see will be who among the journos will be the one or the collective and state Rudd met them undermined the govt.

    now i think laurie oaks said as much during the election but the party for the good of the election played it down.

    but now we are half way through the election cycle and it looks as though rudd will fail, so journos for the good of the people do an honest opinion piece.

  214. For those who did not see the movie “The Kane Mutiny” the Captain (played by Bogart) was found to be sane and his serving officers were canned.

    Great movie.

  215. Listening to Mr. Rudd, he sees himself above the party. He sees himself as above all.

    He does not seem to understand the PM is a part of a team.

    He really believes that it is all up to him.

    Something is amiss.

    It is like one is looking a a dictator, saying to the crowds, the masses have anointed me. I am your saviour.

  217. Catching up,

    I’ve admired your comments and your work, but on this occasion you are talking crap.

    “I am your saviour”, you’re just spouting right wing garbage and doing the same thing that you have accused others of.

    “He sees himself above all”. Give us a break, you’ve suddenly become a mind reader.

  218. If, God forbid, Rudd gets the nod on Monday, i will not vote for the ALP. AFAIC, he is a mirror image of Liealot and is unfit to be PM.

    His behaviour behind the scenes for the last18 months or so is indefensible. Destabilising the government by sleeping with the enemy is unforgiveable, and I wouldn’t be surprised to find that he’s been briefing the Liars Party as well.

    We now know that he almost wrecked the government with his impossible behaviour to the extent that he had to be removed. And we also know Gillard was effectively the PM because he couldn’t or wouldn’t, do the job.

    We also know he has made enemies of pretty much all of his colleagues, most of whom, it would seem, would rather scoop their eyes out with a spoon than work with him.

    Anybody who believes that Rudd has Liealot’s measure must have had their eyes and ears removed for repairs. He was like a deer caught in the headlights.

    Liealot walked all over him and gained the ascendency. Worst of all, I have to admit the Liars Party was right. Under Rudd, the government was dysfunctional and had completely lost direction.

    I don’t pretend to speak for the Gillard supporters, but Kevin Rudd hasn’t just betrayed the ALP and his colleagues, he has betrayed the people who have supported him through thick and thin.

    When the likes of ToM claimed he was the leaker, I leapt to Rudd’s defence and vehemently defended him. My thanks from Mr Rudd; a knife blade between the shoulders. He’s stabbed us all in the back!!

    I will never forgive him this betrayal of my trust and I will never give my vote to any party that he heads! And I’ll never forgive him for making me apologise to ToM!!!!!!

    And there are quite a few out here who feel the same. Talking to people in my town we agreed that we don’t want an election until it’s due, we don’t want Gillard removed as PM and we don’t want Rudd anywhere near the highest office in the country. The consensus was that he had betrayed us

  219. My recollection of the movie was that the second in charge was urged by the senior officers to intervene and do something about a captain who was clearly not coping and putting them all at risk. He did act but then at the court marshal proceedings they all stepped back and dropped him in the shit.

    Caine was the name of the ship as I recall but the drama was about a person who could not cope with the constant pressure of command and conflict.

    There were no “winners” in the movie story.

    We don’t get quality scripted drama like that nowadays do we??????

  220. TB qld

    re garret as a poor performer. he seems to be working well in the education portfolio, maybe he just was unable to work with rudd.

    if gillard wins monday she may decide on looking at the ministry. any changes will decide if garret is ok or not.

  221. Jane,

    And Gillard didn’t betray Kevin Rudd. Neither are squeeky clean. Gillard betrayed my trust when she knifed Kevin Rudd. I believed her when she said that she knew nothing about it, but now she has revealed that she was in the thick of it all.

    Rudd still maintains that he wasn’t the leaker, yet now that Rudd has challenged Gillard some elements now want to believe every smattering of mud that was ever thrown Rudd’s way.

    The truth is always somewhere in between.

  222. ‘That’s your modus operandi, the class snitch.’

    In another reality, we are on the world wide web…there are lurkers who read every word but never comment.

  224. ‘If, God forbid, Rudd gets the nod on Monday, i will not vote for the ALP.’

    I agree, he’s going ahead with the CO2 tax.

    A pox on both their houses, they have killed the party.

  225. El gordo,

    It’s running from one to the other as the lackie. Comment here, run elsewhere to snitch and have a laugh behind other people’s backs. People here have been very tolerant of your behaviour IMO, not that my opinion counts for much, it’s just an observation.

  226. “Whatever happens, come Monday … the ALP will still be there … with A leader ”

    TB, spot on. Sometimes caucus gets it right. Sometimes they get it wrong. That goes for both parties

    If they are wrong, it will not be long before the matter is corrected.

    We do not have to like them because they are Labor.

    Maybe we need to give them a fair go.

    No one has said that the PM has done anything wrong. Most have given her credit for her efforts.

    The problem seems to be, they just do not like her.

  227. Antony G

    Rudd forbid journalists from speaking up, he reminded them of the journalist ethic of never naming a source.

    Gillard had released journalist from this code and challenged Rudd to do the same.

    FAIL Rudd

    Even Barry Cassidy said it was a rare politicain who could give the release that Gillard did.

  228. For the record, I don’t think Rudd is mentally ill, but I do think he has an inflated opinion of himself and suffers from hubris in spades. I agree with CU on this.

  229. Let me explain, it’s as Shane did his best to explain. You leftards piss of the swinging voters, now all the Rudd supporters are being pissed off by the smear campaign which can only have come from the Gillard camp. You lot are going to be swinging in the wind.

    I despair, Abbott is going to be Australia’s next prime minister unless this hate campaign stops.

  230. el gordo, I approve of the price on CO2, my reason is that Rudd has betrayed the true believers by sleeping with the enemy. I supported him and argued with the likes of ToM that Rudd would never betray his supporters.

    He has, and I will not forgive him, nor will I vote for the ALP if he is given the nod. I resent being stabbed in the back, and I think perhaps CU feels the same way.

  231. The question that no one has asked, why is Mr. Rudd moving at this time.

    If you do not have respect of the caucus, how can one govern.

    If Mr. Rudd was so wonderful, why was the media having a field day at the time.

    His poll numbers were plumbering at a great speed.

    The media was saying the government was incompetent and chaotic. It now appears that the caucus also agreed with th media.

    Something was wrong, and they party believed that had identified the problem, and 199 MPs in Labor agreed.

    If Mr. Rudd was successful on Monday, there will be no honeymoon whatever. The media headlines will resume from where they left off, twenty months ago.

    It will not solve anything for Labor.

    It will lead to more chaos and I believe an early election, which will not benefit the country.

    I ask again, why now.

  233. Antony G, Gillard didn’t betray Rudd, he betrayed her and the rest of his colleagues by behaving like a dictator. He lost the confidence of the party and had to be removed. If it were not the case, his colleagues would be welcoming him back with open arms.

    The fact is that they are not. As I said in my previous comment, they’d rather scoop their eyes out with a spoon than serve with him. That says it all.

  234. Jane agree agree agree I too feel betrayed by Rudd because I too defended the bastard and now it is clear that he was white-anting all and sundry.

    AnthonyG get your head out of your arse.

  235. lunalava and “get your head out of your arse”.

    That’s obviously your standard of debate. I expressed an opinion contra to the group think. I’m outa here. Bye folks.

  236. I would like to say, I do not hate Mr. Rudd or any other politician for that matter

    I do not agree with Mr, Rudd’s action and will continue to say why.

    It is Mr. Rudd that has made the move and he is not being exactly charitable about those who disagree with him.

    I have no time for the shocked, butter would not melt in their mouths idiots, such as the deputy Opposition leader, who is saying this does not happen in all parties when leadership challenges take place. I do not remember the assault against Mr. Turnbull being tea and biscuits.

    Yes they can be ugly, but they are also a necessary evil. It can be a time for renewal.

    Sorry, that is what politics is about.

    Decisions are made by the caucus. Whether they are accepted or not, is decided at the next election.

    A PM stays in place as long as they have the confidence of the caucus.

    If one does not like this, I suggest you join with others and have the Constitution changed.

  237. Kevin Rudd was knifed by Julia. He was originally given time to change his dictatorial ways but once Julia realised she had the numbers she withdrew the time and rolled his head. This was premeditated many weeks before, over a slow buildup and internal polling.

    If I was PM and that happened to me I would be bitter as well. Offered time and getting an agreement and then having that taken away in one flash.

    The public including swinging voters were told it all happened in a single night and the inference was that Julia was forced to accept the position after flatly denying any ambition.

    Now we know the truth and yet the Julia supporters seem to think the only person guilty of betrayal is Kevin Rudd. Kevin may have been undermining the ALP and Julia’s Government by letting out a few leaks to the media ( and this cannot be proven).

    By contrast Julia Gillard has undermined the trust of and outright lied to, the voters by claming that she did not decide until the night of the removal.

    I for one, am more angry at the lies to me as a voter, than the manipulation of the media by a politician as this happens all the time.

    The swinging voter is angry and prepare for decimation at the next election. I suggest those in the ALP capable of doing so retire with their snouts trough pensions as soon as the next election is announced.

  240. ‘nor will I vote for the ALP’

    Watermelon Credentials are interchangeable, so you will be voting Green, presumably?

  241. It comes across to me, that on the spot, the PM was willing to give Mr. Rudd another chance but took time to talk it over with others.

    I would assume this option would be discussed. It was also likely that it was also discuss as whether this would be prudent, or would the better course be to finish the job immediately, not later down the line.

    I assume that many of these issues had already been taken up with Mr. Rudd. The PM indicates that this was so. It is said that Mr. Rudd listens to no one.

    Mr. Rudd’s lack of insight in what his caucus believed is shown by his present statements.

    He believed he did no wrong. He blamed anything that went wrong on others.

    When a hundred of the MPs were willing to vote you out, being given more time would not have made much difference.

    No, the PM treated Mr. Rudd gently, knowing what we know now.

  242. shane, Rudd had plenty of time to change his ways, but obviously either couldn’t or wouldn’t. I suspect the latter.

    He paid the price.

  244. Jane

    A meeting was held where Rudd was given time to change his ways. Once Julia found out she had the numbers that agreement for time was withdrawn and he was knifed. That is the time n am referring to. The actual agreement between him and Julia the one she renegged on.

  247. ‘you would never vote Labor.’

    As I said before, I have always voted ALP, even voted for Julia in a misguided belief that the ETS was dead.

    On Monday the PM should allow a secret ballot and tell everyone to vote for the person most likely to succeed in getting things back on track for the next election.

    This will be a truly democratic move and by a process of elimination, through a second ballot, they would find a leader.

    Anything less than this would be mindless.

  251. The problem seems to be, they just do not like her.

    Maybe they should take a leaf out of old Dale Carnegie’s book then … “I don’t like that person I shall have to get to know them better” …

    I must confess I didn’t like all my bosses either … and when I was a boss I didn’t expect to be “liked” but gain respect for achievement, honesty, loyalty (to my troops) and fairness … can assure you it works …

  252. BTW, there are a lot of precious people flouncing off the stage here today …

    Gotta go, dinner calls … LOL! (well actually, The Minister, calls me for dinner)

  253. Cu, @ 6.50pm i’ve been wondering the same thing…..why now?

    Just couldn’t wait any longer given Labors’ polls results? Possibly.

    To give him a year and a half or thereabouts to win back the public. Probably.

  254. AD, here ya’ go..let me show you the door…

    By order of management, it seems that I don’t get my super special bonus unless I come back. Traa daa, the shortest retirement in history.

    I think I’ll play music…

  257. El gordo

    secret ballots wonderful idea, howard insisted unions have them.

    But just ask Tony when was the First time or ANY time a secret ballot was used in the Liberal party room.

    Even the selection of the party president was not exactly secret, Tony on camera showed the winner he was voting for them, when publically he was supporting reith (what a man your tony, must have made reith a happy boy)

    also if i remember when Tony won the job there was a Turnbull supporter away ill, they wanted to cast a vote but was denied.

  258. TB

    Pretty hard to find a politician who has earnt respect for achievement, honesty, loyalty (to troops) and fairness in any of our parties.

    You had better have dinner with the minister then.

  259. Hi min

    this has been a busy week how about just opening the cellar door.

    as they say in the classics, today is poets day.

    p1ss off early tomorrows saturday

  264. Patricia, you are right. What ever will be, will be.

    At the end of the day, every crisis will work it way through and things will remain very much the same.

    Life for most goes on.

    The truth is that no politician is as important as they see themselves to be.

    We even survived McMahon.

  265. Sue, by way of coincidence I’ve just had the boss’s permission to open the cellar. Mind you it’s been an 8 month effort trying to get the key back from Bacchus..plus I believe that I was left with the dishes last time around…

  266. Luna, that’s very edifying that J. Bishop has been faithful to the last 3 Liberal leaders…somehow (without being sexist)..the term sleeping one’s way to the top comes to mind.

  267. Noooo Min, we used paper plates…. ask Sue, and i’m n ot sure but bob might have had the pizza as well….

    [you know what happened the next day] :sad:

  268. In case you are wondering i have absolutely no sense of rythym, but the grandkids like to dance around with grandma.

  269. Speaking of Julie Bishop reminds me again of the fact that her private life is the same as Julia Gillard’s.

    Not married, no children, no comment!

  270. Definitely pip
    but remember i even complained about using paper plates

    “lattes” were passeed around liberally, so the fridge wont have any milk

  271. ‘secret ballots wonderful idea’

    Let’s see if Julia can break the faction mould and give the party back to the people through their chosen representative.

  272. Cu, wise words…we did indeed survive McMahon. Indeed, it was a trial at the time, trying to take him seriously.

    Favorite politician of all time: shoot me, Bob Hawke..I was madly deeply in love with Bob. That was a good era, when Australians became proud of being Australian instead of being 2nd class Brits (due apologies to Brits).

  275. Pip, I know all about it..double cheese for Migs, no anchovies (yetch bletch smelly little fishy things), no olives.

    And as far as what happened the next day….

  279. Take me away….it tastes mighty good…ohhh baby.. It must be time for kitchen dancing (that’s an old ‘un from our Tim Dunlop Blogocracy days..we used to do kitch’n dancin’ :) ))

  287. Talk about who and why

    does this make any sense

    “Mr Newman has been on a three-day tour of regional Queensland but cut the trip short after Kevin Rudd’s shock resignation as foreign minister.

    Mr Newman is revising his campaign strategy in light of the Labor leadership showdown.

    He says the situation in Canberra is making it difficult to get his message through to voters, but he is staying on message when it comes to attacking Labor.”

    Mr Newman you are running for the LNP,
    Regional qld is part of Australia
    Qld voters should know the difference between federal and state
    Qld voters do not have a vote in labor caucus

  288. shane, I still can’t feel sorry for Rudd. AFAIC, he got what he deserved.How do you think Gillard got the numbers? It wasn’t as if his colleagues were begging for him to have another chance and threw their weight behind him, was it? They had no faith in his promise to reform and wanted to be shot of him

    You’re flogging a dead horse; his colleagues didn’t want him then and they don’t want him now. That must tell you something when, far from rallying to the call, his former colleagues are telling him “for God’s sake, leave!”

    In retrospect, I don’t think he’d actually thought beyond winning the election in 2007, like the bride who never thinks beyond the wedding

    There’s no place for sentiment in the business of politics. Like any other endeavour, when you no longer do your job effectively, you get your marching orders.

    As CU has pointed out any number of times, he wasn’t team player then and he still isn’t. Rugged individualism is fine if you play tennis, but makes you a liability in a team game like politics.

  292. Min, Julie B’s., is… much older…

    This would have been just before the 2010 election… at around the same time as Julia Gillard was copping it ….for living with her ‘boyfriend’… not her partner, oh no…

    Rise and rise of Julie Bishop
    http://www.perthnow.com.au/entertainment/perth-confidential/power-and-the-fashion/story-e6frg30u-1111114162157

    She chats readily about most subjects – except herself and, particularly, the high-profile relationship with Perth Lord Mayor Peter Nattrass that has fascinated WA for the past decade. Bishop protects her privacy as carefully as she cultivates her professional image.

    “I have nothing to hide but I don’t promote my personal life as a reason for people to vote for me,” she says politely. “I want them to debate my ideas. It’s not about me.”

    About Julia Gillard’s story in the Women’s Weekly……catty !

    Very top private girls school catty!

    She chats readily about most subjects – except herself and, particularly, the high-profile relationship with Perth Lord Mayor Peter Nattrass that has fascinated WA for the past decade. Bishop protects her privacy as carefully as she cultivates her professional image.

    “I have nothing to hide but I don’t promote my personal life as a reason for people to vote for me,” she says politely. “I want them to debate my ideas. It’s not about me.”

  293. AD, the few times I’ve been to Gutter Trash I’ve noticed their fixation with this place. If you feel you’re more at home over in that dump then I’ll happily do something I’m not in the habit of doing. Swear. Now fuck off back to that pile of liars and if you don’t come back nobody will miss you. You clearly belong with that heap of shit.

  294. More about Julie B.,

    Despite her best efforts, some details of her private life are public knowledge. Bishop wed, in 1983, Perth property developer Neil Gillam. The marriage ended in divorce a few years later.

    A subsequent relationship with controversial Liberal senator Ross Lightfoot brought her closer to the political circle of the Liberal Party.

    It would have helped her steel herself for what would become a bloody battle for the blue-
    ribbon Liberal seat of Curtin when she defeated Prime Minister John Howard’s good mate Alan Rocher. Bishop won the seat in 1998 and has held the seat comfortably ever since – increasing the margin at the two subsequent elections.

    But it is her relationship with Nattrass that seems to be the thread connecting her frenetic working life with a stable private one. Bishop and Nattrass live in separate apartments in the same luxury block of units overlooking the Swan River in Crawley. It suits them both, she says.

    Ross Lightfoot?? O.M.G.

  296. Pip, now you’re talking my language..Cole Porter. Porter changed the lyrics with the times..the lyrics to that one was rewritten a dozen or more times.

    Another of my favorites…

  297. I gather I’m not the only one who doesn’t bother with Gutter Trash anymore. All they do is repeat everything that is said here with a dash of bile added. I’ve never come across a more disgusting pile of vomit. The place is full of freaks.

    Now they can add the name Roswell to their list of people they froth at the mouth to condemn. To think el gordo reckons they’d appreciate me over there. That is an insult.

  299. So let me get this right from you Aussies. If mr Rudd was such a dictator how did swan and gillard convince him to drop the eta pollution Thingy he kept harping on abouts

  306. As I said before, I have always voted ALP, even voted for Julia in a misguided belief that the ETS was dead.

    So your drift to Right el gordo was because they shared your belief that AGW was crap ?

    This is not the place but I’d be most interested to gauge the depth of your grasp of the underlying physics.

  308. So far Klan Girl you have belittled someone you described as ‘psycho’ -
    that’s nasty!

    By the way, you can call me whatever you like, just not late for dinner.

    Go back to gutter trash where you belong.

  309. “And why was a psycho appointed as foreign minster”

    Suggest that his back ground made him perfect for the job. Not quite the same as being PM.

    I will ask one question. years we have been hearing how hard Mr. Rudd is to work for, since he started off in Queensland. I have never read one article that disagrees or says he is a wonderful boss. That in my opinion is amazing.

    There are many bright and clever people who can never organise themselves. This does not make them bad, just unsuitable for a job where organising the workload is needed.

    .

  311. ‘Oh I see pipbrain just attack the person not the topic’

    Hi Klan Girl, it comes as a surprise to see you here. This place is picking up.

    —————————–

    ‘to gauge the depth of your grasp of the underlying physics.’

    Standard practice is not to discuss peer reviewed climate change, but everything else is okay.

    I’m taking questions from the floor…

  312. Pip, all comments are welcome here at the Café..even those from sockpuppets. It was just a foray into the Café which I am certain some will be now sniggering about. They’re only pumped up with their own self importance – one has to wonder why the obsession..maybe someone feels like a jilted lover….well I had better not name names.

  313. MJ, the PM always said there would be a price on carbon,

    What was being debated at the time was the difference between a carbon tax, which Mr. Abbott at one time supported or a market base price on carbon emission.

    When you look at the statement in the environment it was made, it meant I will it support a carbon tax. The PM never said she would not bring in a price on carbon emission.

    MJ, you know this as well as I do. Why keep up with the myth.

  314. ‘To think el gordo reckons they’d appreciate me over there. That is an insult.’

    Don’t know what more I can say.

  315. El gordo, the floor is the only place where you can read questions, after you’ve dropped your lemon, lime and bitters and have tried to lick it up.

    Oh wow, Klan Girl such a surprise to see you here. :roll:

  318. El gordo, I’m speculating that each one of your comments here is followed up with a snide comment at the trash heap. I won’t bother looking.

  320. Mangrove Jack, here’s the truth reported by two “very [self] important” ltd news journalists.

    It’s a handy link for future reference :smile:

    Julia Gillard’s carbon price promise
    by: Paul Kelly and Dennis Shanahan
    From: The Australian August 20, 2010

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/julia-gillards-carbon-price-promise/story-fn59niix-1225907522983#

    JULIA Gillard says she is prepared to legislate a carbon price in the next term.
    It will be part of a bold series of reforms that include school funding, education and health.

    In an election-eve interview with The Australian, the Prime Minister revealed she would view victory tomorrow as a mandate for a carbon price, provided the community was ready for this step.

    “I don’t rule out the possibility of legislating a Carbon Pollution Reduction Scheme, a market-based mechanism,” she said of the next parliament. “I rule out a carbon tax.”

    You can still find this on the Labor website under
    Climate Change Speech by Julia Gillard

  321. How extraordinary to see AD and Klan Girl here tonight. They really must be singing our praises elsewhere for this visit to be warranted. Gathering from the stench, I might be right. I’d go and check it out but I don’t have a gas mask.

    There’s something about the smell of shit I don’t like.

  324. Pip, apart from the fact that Migs called you a cutie pie..this is your absolute claim to fame..your investigative skills in finding that article down in the dungeons of The Awstralyun**

    **Disclaimer: this is a NSW accent, we from Victoria call it the Os-trail-yun..and as far as you South Australians go..well..no comment…

  325. El gordo, this is your editor speaking. Why should I have a thread about climate change when you turn every thread into one about climate change. :mrgreen:

  339. Not guilty Min, I was answering Roswell @ 11.08pm… wireless is reeeeally slow tonight. :smile:

    Sue, they were very lucky not to be wearing the pizza :grin:

    Did you hear the corks popping ?

  342. On radio, rudd commissioned papers on how to stop his climate change legislation 2 months before gillard and swan supposedly told rudd to drop it.
    story will contradict what rudd has been claiming about gillard/swan
    see tomorrow smh

  344. Sue, no mention of dodgy documents this time I suppose?

    That’s going to explode in his face…right on top of polls already taken that show he’s miles in front of Gillard and Abbott… push polls aided by media stuff as usual. …. they mean diddly at this stage.

    There was a tweet about Kevin Rudd making a mysoginistic comment on lateline which i couldn’t be bothered with tonight and the transcript isn’t up yet….

  346. Come into the parlour Jane :smile:

    it’s all happening. all terminals at JFK airport have been shut down because of security breach, and no news on American news but there is on Twitter.

    btw I might take a while to respond because of bloody slow wireless tonight. :mrgreen:

  347. pip

    yes farr decided to share that comment with the viewers. but farr is against journos answering Crean’s call for a general admission that rudd did the undermining to them.

  349. Pip
    on the polls

    as farr said it depends on the questions asked.

    but marr said that actually the polls showed that rudd’s popularity had been dropping rapidly over the last few months.

  351. Sue, your advice about leaked documents story being told to Tony Delroy on ABC Local Nightlife.

    Commissioned by Kevin Rudd on Feb., 16th, 2010…. working out how to
    scrap ETS.

    That’s two months before he said Swan and Gillard told him he should scrap it.

    He’s toast.

  352. Definitely tasting required Sue.

    Poor old ltd news have missed the biggest scoop of the week with the leaked documents :grin:

    Fairfax beat them to it …

  353. Sue, who do you think the four journalist were?

    Oakes for sure, Grattan?

    Where’s Jane …. she’s not in the cellar is she ?

  354. Crean was not bad on 7.30.

    Mr. Uhlmann does not appear to be getting his own way so much.

    It is like Labor has decided they have had enough being nice and are challenging those asking the questions.

  355. Hi Cu, it’s high time they stopped being polite to the rude interviewers.

    Did you read Sue’s and my note about the leaked documents @ 11.37pm
    and 12.07pm.

  356. Pip

    news ltd had to concentrate on a newspoll, and all the stories that could run off it.
    yes the newspoll in tomorrows oo will show rudd popular, gillard down abbott up.
    i can see all the stories they had planned
    oh dear
    will caucus follow the people
    the people have spoken
    theres and jessica woo female voters (mamamia readers)
    constitutional challenge
    stay home gg
    ministers panic, who is in who is out

    oh dear, they should have waited for their usual weekend poll as all the action is now!

  358. Sue I’ve been looking at all the headlines and having a good laugh.

    They’ve tried so hard and tomorrow will be a scramble to think of something else to say :grin:

    The breathless reporters on ABC24 will be devastated.

    I doubt that Fairfax will be showing Murky’s minions there little find.

    Then again, the story could be all about the dastardly rat that leaked the documents, and it’s highly unlikely that anyone would try the dodgy Godwin trick again.

  359. pip

    i reckon rudd would use news ltd lots there to willingly destroy labor plus they could pass info to the liberals

    remember the story on julia by the toxic dwarf , run on a weekend, all ready for blot to escalate, the editor of the oo quickly apologised and 3 days later took story off web.

    sideshow sam was always quick to press

    i agree about grattan she has been weird .

    then there is the abc, especially the new ones
    jeremy thompson, latika bourke

  360. Rudd ALP’s best hope: Newspoll – the Oz
    Kevin the only one that can save the ALP – the Daily Smelly
    Galaxy poll shows Kevin Rudd’s the only hope of winning – Herald Sun
    Why they hate Kevin so much

    sucked in to those who refused to stop writing crap :grin:

    How mining tax sparked fallout
    The Australian – ‎31 minutes ago‎

    WAYNE Swan convinced Kevin Rudd to push ahead with the mining tax, then bungled its implementation and was nowhere to be seen as it tore down a first-term prime minister.

    Rudd would have won majority govt: Cameron

    that’s enough …. but it’s not all

  361. Pip

    i bet all the breakfast programs have organised “live from canberra” for monday,

    and with the pollies flying in, the networks may have to organise special convoys.

  362. Yes, sue, they really should have waited!

    I sometimes think that Latika Burke has a bet each way.

    There are dozens of them scribbling and blathering day after day, and none of it has been worth a cent.

    The responses from the media will be very interesting but I can imagine they’ll change tack tomorrow wiout missing a beat, as if nothing went before.

    Can’t wait for Michelle and Fran’s responce.

  363. Sue, a Tea Party style convoy of journos, or on second thoughts…. a conga line of ….

    Michael Danby described the Rudd campign as being like the US Tea Party

    LABOR backbencher Michael Danby says Kevin Rudd is using “Tea Party tactics” to get back into the prime minister’s job.
    Mr Danby said Mr Rudd has his own “faceless men” working behind the scenes to lobby MPs ahead of the caucus leadership ballot on Monday.

    Mr Rudd has called for an exercise of “people power” to convince caucus members to support him.

    “He’s not Joan of Arc,” Mr Danby told ABC television today.

    “He is a mortal political like the rest of us and I hope the Australian people, when they’re ringing offices and using these Tea Party tactics to … win office, have a more realistic view.”

    The Victorian MP said the Rudd government had become “paralysed” and in June 2010 more than 100 caucus members were poised to vote against him before he stood aside.

    http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/breaking-news/labor-backbencher-accuses-kevin-rudd-of-using-tea-party-tactics-to-get-pm-job-back/story-e6frf7jx-1226280618505

  364. I missed the last line from Michael Danby

    .”You can invert history, but there are those of us who were there,” he said.

  365. Well the latest is that the inner circle should have pulled Rudd into line. So that much mean Rudd is not to blame.

    Farr said that the polls do not really say that Rudd is the one that can beat Abbott. They have been going backwards anyway for Rudd. It is more liberals who support him than Labor.

    Marr believes that Rudd is not sabotaging the party but he is despite to be PM again. How could we be so unlucky to have two . Abbott and Rudd.

    The best I like, why did they let him be FM.. It could not be that the two jobs are entirely different.

    No one has said the man is stupid. They are saying as PM he was useless.

    He would not be the first very bright and successful man to take on a leadership role and fail.

    The truth seems to be that many tried to help Rudd but he just would not listen.

    I suspect that the PM’s advice to wait until Abbott changed his mind was offered because it seems Mr. Rudd was looking for a way out.

    We do not want a PM that is focus on beating Mr. Abbott at this time. We want a PM that is capable of governing and doing what is best for Australia.

    Marr said tonight some of the descriptions he has made of PM Gillard have been shocking. It not about policy but his hate of the PM.

    The best one is that Labor should have told everyone how bad Rudd was. What, a party should self discriminate itself. They took the necessary action, trying to keep it as slow key as possible.

    I do not want government by polls.

  366. Lateline Transcript
    Chances of Rudd victory ‘extraordinarily slim’
    http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2012/s3439364.htm

    Little did they know then, Cu.

    Rudd sought option to kill climate plan
    February 25, 2012.
    http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/rudd-sought-option-to-kill-climate-plan-20120224-1ttru.html

    According to the reporter who first mentioned this in the ‘what’s in the papers’
    segment on ABC’s Nightlife, Kevin rudd commissioned this inquiry before the date he says that Swan and Gillard told him to dump the ETS.

    KEVIN RUDD commissioned advice on ”repositioning” his ill-fated climate change policy, including scrapping it, two months before he dumped it, leaked documents show.

    Mr Rudd yesterday placed the blame squarely on Julia Gillard and Wayne Swan for forcing him to drop the policy but the Herald has obtained a departmental briefing commissioned by Mr Rudd showing he began the process that led to the policy being deferred indefinitely.

    In April 2010 the Herald revealed Mr Rudd had abandoned the carbon pollution reduction scheme after talks with senior colleagues. It sent the government into a tailspin and two months later, on June 24, Mr Rudd was dumped as prime minister.

    Toast??

    Now we’re getting to the nitty gritty.

  367. I do not want government by polls.

    I do not want a PM by faceless men either.

    I want a government elected by the people with the PM being the leader of the party offfered to the eletorate at the time of the election.

  368. Jane

    You’re flogging a dead horse

    No, I have a different opinion than yourself, I am entitled to that opinion and to voice my disagreement, especially to those who cannot see past their own political blinkers.

    We agree on a lot but it amazes me the number on here who cannot comprehend that there are people with a different opinion.

    Having different opinions makes a healthy site. Having respect for others opinions and debating the issue rather than telling those who disgree, to get their head out of their arse and then disappear for a few hours as happened yesterday, would also assist in making this a better site.

    Sadly the only dead horse being flogged is the ALP at the next election.

  369. shaneingld

    WOW how stupid can you be
    “I want a government elected by the people with the PM being the leader of the party offfered to the eletorate at the time of the election.”

    you better bring this wise thought to the voters in the qld state election. Replace PM with Premier and you will realise the depth of your stupidity of the australian system of government.

    Under shaneinqld rules the LNP are duping qlders. you dummy, Newman is not eligible to lead the party under your views on elections.

    If he fails to win a seat then under shaneinqld rules it is back to election.

    So Stop the Campaign while the LNP realise how they are Stupid they are inshaneinqld eyes and get a proper candidate for premier.

  370. MJ, you know this as well as I do. Why keep up with the myth.

    CU and Pip…

    I’m quite puzzled by your comments.

    You both seem to have read something into my comment addressed to el gordo that I didn’t say.

    It was written in the context of el gordo’s earlier claim to have been a Labor supporter.

    I was curious about whether el gordo’s apostacy was rooted in his rejection of AGW or the so-called carbon tax.

    When I phrased the question I was reflecting on how I’ve never met anyone who was a climate change sceptic who had a grasp of the underlying physics.

    It’s a sort of litmus test I like to apply upfront when challenged by a sceptic.

    I’m also certainly aware of the technical differences between a carbon tax and a carbon price having burrowed down through the turgid prose of various opinions on the ATO website.

  372. shaneinqld

    Was Abbott about to proclaim there will be another election if newman fails to win seat?

    “The inevitable question surfaced about who’ll be premier if the LNP wins the March 24 poll but Mr Newman fails to take the Brisbane seat of Ashgrove.

    But Mr Newman interjected when reporters began asking further questions, as if to prevent the federal opposition leader from revealing anything he shouldn’t.

    The party has bluntly refused to say who would be premier if Mr Newman fails. ”

    http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/leadership-question-still-dogs-liberal-national-party-in-queensland-election-campaign/story-fnbt5t29-1226280981624

  373. Gillard and Rudd are like the movie Dumb and Dumber except in the movie D&D were friends.
    Labor’s troubles are simply that there is no depth in the “team”.
    Caucus’s problem is they have different views to the electorate. Caucus wants Gillard, the Labor electorate want Rudd.
    The factions will continue to tear themselves apart for a month or two. A no confidence motion will happen and the numbers won’t be there for Labor.
    The MIL will have to sack her SIL.
    Gillard’s reign over the last 18 months has been a slow motion train wreck. Great event to watch.

  374. Yesterday rudd saif if he loses on monday, he will go to the backbench and not challenge gillard again.

    so i think the rudd/hawker campaign strategy as alluded to on abc24 this morningis this.

    After monday loss,go to backbench, continue the destabilisation, circulate need for new leader, when new contenders names appear in press. panick party, spill emerge, new challengers, rudd put his name in for new contest.

    senator for wa mark bishop this morning has started early. without mentioning names he implied shorten and combet. so be prepared for an even nastier campaign from rudd/hawker

  376. Sue

    I have not responded quickly because i have other things to do in the morning. But thanks for your presumption and attacks and resorting to personal abuse.

    I am now really starting to see the girls bitterness club at this site as soon as someone disagrees.

    Thanks for calling me stupid just because we disagree. I will respond to your bitter comments but will never again bother to respond to your comments in the future.

    The majority of people believe that the leader proposed to the public by a party at an election will become the PM or the Premier. Whether rusted on supporters of either side of politics think otherwsie.

    It is well known that Campbell Newman will be the leader if elected. It has not been hidden behind faceless party hacks.

    That is fact, the polls show it and the swinging vote shows it.

  377. Ladies and gentlemen, I believe that I should take the opportunity to point out the Disclaimer which Miglo has placed at the top of this blog.

  379. Sue, I do not see Rudd’s comment as ‘destabilising’ given that he has said that a move to the back bench also means that he will not challenge. The only other option would have been for Rudd to quit, which would mean a by-election.

  380. Standby for a leadership challenge in the Liberals. This is the time for least cost to the party in the electorate.

    why the challenge? obvious those same polls

    abbott has not benefitted from the labor turmoil.

    Abbott should be up over 50% as preferred PM.

    the Liberal strategists can read the poll teacup leaves as well.

  381. Clearly Admin know who is and who isn’t a troll, therefore those accusations are best left completely alone.

    For those who may not realize, Shane has been a long term contributor, back to Tim Dunlop’s Blogocracy I believe along with many others of us here.

  382. Min

    Kevin could resign from the party and become an independent like Peter Sliiper did. That would be the biggest thorn in her side as she would lose her parliamentary majority.

  383. Sue, that is the anomaly isn’t it..Abbott has always had the popularity of a plate of brussel sprouts, yet no one is game enough to challenge him – yet. While the Liberals are travelling so well, especially in their Primary Vote, they will be leaving well enough alone.

  384. MIn
    he has said he will not challenge gillard
    rudd needs new opponents
    see senator mark bishop abc24

    if party does not unite, in other words id destabilisation continues,

    check out news 24 they are already gasping over mark bishop’s words.

    sorry but this is how i read the hawker campaign, POWER

  385. Shane, that is another choice. That way although it’s almost 100% that Rudd would support the government’s policies, he could of course never challenge for the Leadership as an independent.

    But you have said precisely why Rudd won’t do it, Labor would lose it’s majority.

    I must admit to being still somewhat perplexed as to why Rudd has decided this course of action. It will clear the air once and for good (I hope) about any future Rudd leadership challenges.

  386. Min, if he loses the challenge for leadership becoming an independent means the goverbnment loses its majority without his support. I have no doubt that he would support the government but having an ace up his sleeve in the form of being an independent who is not forced to toe the party line.

    I too am perplexed, I thought he would have waited until much later in the cycle than this, but I always thought he would seek the top job again before the end of this governments term.

  387. The delicious irony is that Rudd’s white-anting at the last election gave us a minority government. Now the independents say they will not support a government lead by Rudd.

    Karma baby!

  388. I do not think there are multiple personalities of shaneinqld just he has some friends who called the dumb and dumber charge, which i believe is reflected in the double standard they hold.

    the dumb thing is that some people do not realise it is the party (all parites in australia) who vote for their leader after the election.

    Hence Julie Bishop will never be Deputy PM, not because the coalition will not win an election but because of CONVENTION the nationals get to chose.

    Poor julie bishop at one stage even she forgot she will never be deputy pm.

  389. A couple of things, Klan Girl is a ‘blow in’ and not a regular member of the GT fan club.

    We tolerate her, just as we do with all trannies.

    AD is a new visitor at Trash HQ and we all appreciate his intellect and humour, hope he hangs about.

    ——————–

    Min, the idea of me doing a guest post on CC is probably not a good idea, an open thread is best to air viewpoints.

    You may not be aware that the Warminista are saying sea level rise has stalled because a lot of water has been dumped on land thanks to La Nina.

    It’s a worthy argument.

  390. Rudd’s thirst for revenge against Gillard will continue after Monday, he will not stop until she loses the job.
    There is already talk of Bill Shorten.
    Rudd has projected all his personal failings onto Gillard. This is undeserved IMO. She did not set out to undermine him as leader and has been respectful (in public) since that time.
    Rudd needs personal support and help in overcoming his obsessive behaviour, dragging down the Labor Party for revenge or some strange world view that they can’t survive without him proves he is not the man for the job.

  391. lunalava

    the independents are interested in having a functioning parliament
    rudd this week has displayed he is not able to function as a minister ( because someone does not like him)
    resigned from the ministry, what a great example of a non-functioing personality he would bring to the parliament.

  392. lunalava

    shorten can not get the job unless the gg resigns, the msm is already onto the fact that he is the son-in-law of gg.

  394. faceless man, sorry hawker, pushing the polls

    hawker calling for pm not to run because the polls have spoken

    How Dare he

    How many pieces of silver has hawker received?

  395. DESPERATION CALL from Hawker

    JULIA GILLARD DO NOT STAND

    Now hawker has SAID he was present at talks with minor parties

    hawker claims he is not being paid he is doing it as a favor.

  396. Bruce Hawker banging on about how Labor can’t be elected with the current PM.
    Well if Rudd is leader, the election will be in 1-2 months time and Abbott is likely to win. Rudd wll make a great opposition leader for the next 5 years.
    All the recent Labor policy gains would be pissed away under Abbott (some will be pissed away with Rudd).

  397. Rudd will lose on Monday …

    … and Gillard (AND HER CABINET!) then has over twelve months before the election …

    … her front bench (excluding the ex- Foreign Minister), one on one against the present (and future) Shadow Ministry is far superior …

    … twelve months+ is plenty of time to promote Julia Gillard as the leader she appears to be …

    Kevin is not the Messiah!

  399. It does concern me that the only issue that is who can beat Mr. Abbott at an election that should be twenty months away.

    If Mr. Rudd’s wills prevails, I believe we will be having that election within weeks. There is no way that Mr. Rudd can win that. It is even possible or probable; Mr. Abbott will be going to that election as PM.

    What should be the ruling proposition should be who can govern better.

    The best thing for the Labor, and I say country is for the PM to win by a big margin on Monday. This would be a positive for Labor and the country.

    Mr. Rudd and Mr. Abbott do not offer the country stability. I believe the PM can deliver the stability.

    An election at this time will put the election for both houses out of sync. There cannot be an election for the upper house. Mr. Abbott will not have the power to do anything. This happened in the e 1960’s under M. Menzies. Top solve the problem, an early election was called to bring the houses back into sync.

    Do we want elections every few months, when waiting for the next schedule elections avoids this? The only person that thinks they benefit by an early election is Mr. Abbott.

    If Mr. Abbott is so sure, the PM is so bad, and Labor will lose the next election, why cannot he wait a little longer.
    Mr. Hawker is now saying that the PM should resign because she does not have the confidence of the people.

    Where are polls mentioned in the Constitution?

    We are governed under the Westminster system. This means that his constituency elects Mr. Rudd. He was elected by the caucus. That is how it works. We, the public do not elect PM’s.

    What happened back in 2010 was correct. Mr. Rudd lost the confidence of Labor MPs. One is PM as long as they have the confidence of the caucus.

    If people do not like this, they should work to change the constitution.

    Being popular does not mean you are the person for the job. Just look at when Mr. McMahon deposed Mr. Gorton. He was one of the worse PMs this country has seen.

    Opinion polls can come down as quickly as they go up. This was happening to Mr. Rudd back in 2010. Mr. Rudd reached record highs in the polls before this.

    It does concern me that the only issue that is who can beat Mr. Abbott at an election that should be twenty months away.

    If Mr. Rudd’s wills prevails, I believe we will be having that election within weeks. There is no way that Mr. Rudd can win that. It is even possible or probable; Mr. Abbott will be going to that election as PM.

    What should be the ruling proposition should be who can govern better.

    The best thing for the Labor, and I say country is for the PM to win by a big margin on Monday. This would be a positive for Labor and the country.

    Mr. Rudd and Mr. Abbott do not offer the country stability. I believe the PM can deliver the stability.

    An election at this time will put the election for both houses out of sync. There cannot be an election for the upper house. Mr. Abbott will not have the power to do anything. This happened in the e 1960’s under M. Menzies. Top solve the problem, an early election was called to bring the houses back into sync.

    Do we want elections every few months, when waiting for the next schedule elections avoids this? The only person that thinks they benefit by an early election is Mr. Abbott.

    If Mr. Abbott is so sure, the PM is so bad, and Labor will lose the next election, why cannot he wait a little longer.
    Mr. Hawker is now saying that the PM should resign because she does not have the confidence of the people.

    Where are polls mentioned in the Constitution?

    We are governed under the Westminster system. This means that his constituency elects Mr. Rudd. He was elected by the caucus. That is how it works. We, the public do not elect PM’s.

    What happened back in 2010 was correct. Mr. Rudd lost the confidence of Labor MPs. One is PM as long as they have the confidence of the caucus.

    If people do not like this, they should work to change the constitution.

    Being popular does not mean you are the person for the job. Just look at when Mr. McMahon deposed Mr. Gorton. He was one of the worse PMs this country has seen.

    Opinion polls can come down as quickly as they go up. This was happening to Mr. Rudd back in 2010. Mr. Rudd reached record highs in the polls before this.

  400. I want a government elected by the people with the PM being the leader of the party offfered to the eletorate at the time of the election.

    Sue, it was pretty obvious to me that Shane was speaking in a rhetorical sense. I’m sure he knows the party’s procedures.

    These days, whether we like it or not, our elections have a “presidential” flavour.

    That’s why we have polling on the leaders’ popularity.

    Many people I’m sure vote for the party of the leader they prefer, in the expectation that leader will be confirmed in the job after the results are in.

    For them it’s a package deal.

  402. “The majority of people believe that the leader proposed to the public by a party at an election will become the PM or the Premier.”

    True Shane, and most likely to happen in Qld/Ashgrove, but as a hypothetical, what should happen IF Campbell Newman doesn’t win Ashgrove yet the LNP win government?

    Such a result is quite possible – Kate Jones is a very good local candidate and many Ashgrove voters, while preferring the LNP to oust Labor in the election, have no time for the former Lord Mayor who carries council baggage. My understanding is that many are still undecided yet because of this conundrum.

    Given the presidential style of campaigning we are seeing at all levels of government these days, should the LNP inform the voters beforehand who will be the Premier if Kate Jones wins Ashgrove?

  403. Klan Girl
    Welcome to whispers. Our side doesn’t usually have much representation on this site.
    Listening to what the press are saying I think Gillard might get rolled on Monday. Rolled or badly trashed. Albo backing Rudd will cause some of the other marginals to rethink their position. It is all about self interest and keeping the perks that come with being an MP.
    …. all this is so good. Just loving it.

  404. Bacchus. Abbott and Campbell seem to be campaigning well together. Abbott is as free as a bird with all the cockups in Labor ranks. One thing is for sure. You won’t see Anna with Gillard at her side.

  405. ‘Rudd will lose on Monday’

    So they must have a back-up plan, a compromise candidate to save the party from defeat.

    Otherwise its all down hill with Juliar at the helm….

  406. Klan Girl
    Welcome to whispers. Our side doesn’t usually have much representation on this site.

    LOL! I’m not sure, KG, has a “side”, G … ;-)

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Otherwise its all down hill with Juliar at the helm….

    I see the, Liberal Party Cracked Crystal Balls, are out again … the ones they sold off cheap after they were used to predict winning the, 2007 AND the 2010 Federal elections … :lol: :roll:

  407. More delicious irony Albo falls into line with his own faction to support Rudd.
    Rudd, the man who c onstantly complains about factions.

    Oh the hypocrisy

  409. Geoff – So who’s going to be premier when Campbell gets his @r$e kicked in Ashgrove?

    I wouldn’t be too sure Mr Abbott is such a plus for Campbell Newman either – he has a net satisfaction ratiing of MINUS 23% and trails your favourite Prime Minister in the Preferred PM stakes…

  411. Agree, Baccy, CanDo is not all that popular in my “acquaintance circle” and I’ve got to be careful – most of them are Liberals … doesn’t mean Anna gets a look in … a lot of people think the CanDo LNP arrangement is quite odd … and some think its not “quite right” …

    … CanDo just might LOSE Ashgrove too … will be a close run thing …

  412. Maybe if Mr. Rudd had went to bed, not to the phones, after a busy day, travelling from Mexico, arriving at four in the afternoon, and a long dinner with Beasley, he might have come to do different conclusion.

    Maybe if he had made a denial that he was white anting the PM, she might have voiced support for him.

    Nothing like twisting facts.

    The media had said that Mr. Rudd was only waiting for the next slip. He could not wait and manipulated his paranoia into one.

    This is not about the polls. It is about who is better to lead the country.

    It is about who the caucus has confidence in.

    What occurred June 2010 was correct, if the caucus believe he was dysfunctional in the role of PM.

    It was not only proper, they had a duty to take the action they did. That is how our democracy works.

    The personal attacks, in my opinion are coming from Mr. Rudd more than the PM side.

    What happened in 2010 is not what is important. That is history.

    Mr. Rudd does not see the PM surviving for long, that is what this is all about. He sees himself having another go in the near future. He needed to get the PM out of the way first.

    Mr. Rudd, like Mr. Abbott could not stand to take the chance that the PM would turn things about.

    It is not about whether we have a good PM or not, It is about one man, with a over blown ego, believing only he can save the day. I am sure he is disappointed the the PM and the government has lasted this long.

    Mr. Rudd will never become an Independent. He needs Labor, even though he seems to despise everything about it to achieve his aims.

    If Mr. Rudd cared for the country, he would be doing everything in his power, as the PM said she did for him, to make the government work. He did not, and this is what is important today.

    How could anyone in caucus trust him.

    I am for one, very disappointed in Mr. Rudd. I did at one time support him to the hilt. I felt sorry when he was deposed. I always supported sMe. Gillard over him, but was unhappy for her her, when she took over. I felt the party was sacrificing a good future PM, and was once again using a woman when things are bad.

    When Mr. Rudd was deposed, his popularity was on a downward path at a great rate.

    Labor will not be in the wilderness for decades. There is too much depth and talent in it’s caucus.

    This is Australia, that has the Westminster system, not the USA. We don elect PM. That is my mind is a good thing.

    If the PM has lost trust, why is that so?

    Farr, or was it Marr, said last night, that Mr. Rudd will go to the back bench and from then on no one will take no notice of him.

    If the PM has performed this well under pressure, how will she perform if the pressure is lifted. I, for one would like to find out.

    Yes, it could go the other way under Rudd – at least long enough to hold government in 2013 — but it is the catastrophic downside that caucus should be weighing up alongside the modest upside of clinging to power.

    Not only would Rudd see all his ghosts come back to haunt him during the election campaign, but the temptation to tinker with Labor’s hard won policy achievements — the carbon tax, the mining tax, the NBN and health reform — would likely prove too great.

    So the catastrophic downside is both a Labor rout and a disintegration of Labor’s thus-far coherent policy platform.

    With Gillard as leader, things look very different. She would exit power with a robust legacy — all those hard won policies would remain in place for Abbott to ‘tear up’ and replace with his own versions – the carbon tax/ETS with Direct Action; the all-fibre NBN with a copper/fibre mix; no mining tax at all; a substantial rewrite of the Fair Work Act; and who knows what for health funding and the cutting of other services to bring the budget back to surplus without carbon and mining-tax revenue.

    That is not to say Abbott would necessarily end Australia’s current run of good fortune and prosperity — only that he should not be allowed to begin the tearing-up process without a strong Opposition to watch his every move. Gillard would provide that; Rudd would not.

    The still-faithful elements of Gillard’s front bench would be a formidable team, give or take a Chris Bowen or Martin Ferguson.

    That’s the second prize for Julia Gillard. And it would give all Australians, not least the business community, the best chance of avoiding the severe economic damage that this political crisis is likely to leave as its legacy.

    http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/Kevin-Rudd-Julia-Gillard-poll-caucus-Labor-PM-chal-pd20120225-RSS8H?opendocument&src=idp&utm_source=exact&utm_medium=email&utm_content=16743&utm_campaign=kgb&modapt=commentary

    PS The faceless men are the one hundred and some men and women in caucus. Yes, his colleges.

  415. Rudd was forced to bring it on because he had started to slip in the polls whereas Gillard had just started to turn the numbers around.
    So all this angst comes about because of Rudd’s desire to get even.

  417. Bacchus

    Given the presidential style of campaigning we are seeing at all levels of government these days, should the LNP inform the voters beforehand who will be the Premier if Kate Jones wins Ashgrove?

    Answer: Yes.

    Because I hope Campbell Newman does not win the seat. They should have a fallback plan and the sooner they tell the voters the better.

    There is something not quite right when the proposed leader is not even in parliament, but at least we know he will be the leader if he does win the seat and the LNP win the election.

  420. TB

    I agree it is odd. Once again because people expect the leader of a party to already be in parliament, just like they expect the leader at an election to remain leader, despite all the legal westminster hoohaa.

  421. Sue, it was probably bonsai that organised the smear campaign against Peter Slipper.

    Albo just made a lengthy and somewhat emotional announcement that he is backing Kevin Rudd.

    He despairs at the way some have aatacked each other in the media.
    He offered his resignation as Leader of the House but Julia Gillard did not accept it saying if she wins the ballot she would still want himto de the leader
    as he’s done a good job
    He was not pleased at what went on in 2010 and the state of the polls now
    Can’t bear the thought of Abbott’s American style politics.

    He maybe, hasn’t read about how Rudd commissioned an inquiry months before he says that Swan and Gillard ‘told him’ to dump the ETS, to work out how to scrap the ETS.

  422. Mr. Rudd talks about Mr. Abbott being rooted in the past. May I suggest, Mr. Rudd by his words, is also back in the came place.

    Mr. Rudd is alleging that the faceless men deposed him. The faceless men were put in their place by Mr. Whitlam.

    It was caucus that got rid of Rudd. It was their duty to do so, if they believe he was not functioning.

    As for the functions, they have had very little power for decades. They are only a way of denoting what ones politics might be. No one today seems to stick rigidly to any policy, whether right or left.

    Support for Rudd is coming from all fractions, proves this.

    Why did Mr. Rudd keep his complaints to himself within government and cabinet.

    Why did he take it to the media instead.

    As for Laurie and Martin, they rarely agree.

  423. Shane

    It appears that Julia fully participated in the coup for a long time. The public have been lied to and the truth is now suddenly leaking out for the worse about the coup.

    and..

    The one thing that will hurt her now is the fact that the removal of Kevin was premeditated, it was underhanded and sneaky. We were lied to about the removal of our PM, not just a promise or policy but the removal of our PM.

    and..

    Kevin Rudd was knifed by Julia. He was originally given time to change his dictatorial ways but once Julia realised she had the numbers she withdrew the time and rolled his head. This was premeditated many weeks before, over a slow buildup and internal polling.

    I’m wondering what brought you to this opinion?

    This is vastly different to my reading of what actually happened. I do believe Ms Gillard when she said that the decision to “knife” was made at the last minute. I have absolutely no doubt that she, and everyone else in caucus, knew that there were moves afoot to replace Kevin Rudd in the lead-up, and even that her staff were writing speeches to cater for the possibility. I firmly believe that she was counselling against moving against Mr Rudd at the time. I reckon in the end, she was overtaken by the momentum of the push coming from the organisers of the coup. The only choice she had in the end, was to take over as PM, or stand aside for someone else to challenge…

  425. Yes. I do not believe that Mr. Albanese would make the same choice, if the likely vote was closer. He did say he was having problems making up his mind.

    I suspect, he will still have his job, Monday afternoon.

  426. I am thinking, after the Albo decision, that Gillard will decide not to stand on Monday. All the old heads of Labor are coming together. Listening to Gillard now on Sky. She is floundering.
    Yep. I reckon she won’t stand.

  427. According to the reporter who first mentioned this in the ‘what’s in the papers’
    segment on ABC’s Nightlife, Kevin Rudd commissioned this inquiry before the date he says that Swan and Gillard told him to dump the ETS.

    For what it’s worth, I beleive Labor, as they have always done, drafted a wpman, Julia Gillard, in to the leadership believing they could not win the 2010 election, and now she’s been shafted for the same reason after the Rudd Tea Party style campaign.

    Rudd sought option to kill climate plan
    http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/rudd-sought-option-to-kill-climate-plan-20120224-1ttru.html

    KEVIN RUDD commissioned advice on ”repositioning” his ill-fated climate change policy, including scrapping it, two months before he dumped it, leaked documents show.

    Mr Rudd yesterday placed the blame squarely on Julia Gillard and Wayne Swan for forcing him to drop the policy but the Herald has obtained a departmental briefing commissioned by Mr Rudd showing he began the process that led to the policy being deferred indefinitely.

    When Mr Rudd declared officially yesterday that he would challenge Ms Gillard for his old job, he said Ms Gillard and Mr Swan had pressed him to drop the policy. ”They took a view, very bluntly and very directly, that we should not proceed with the carbon pollution reduction scheme.”

    He said Ms Gillard recommended the Labor Party not put a price on carbon until there was bipartisan support. ”That’s the unvarnished record of what occurred.”

    The leaked briefing is dated February 16, 2010. Mr Rudd commissioned it after rejecting advice to fight for the scheme by holding a double dissolution election.

  428. …she is making a big mistake. She is talking about the Carbon Tax, Mining Tax, NBN, Big Plans, Getting The Job Done … all policies that are on the nose with the electorate.
    It is interesting that the 30 or so who are in the Rudd camp are a cross section of the factions.
    …..she his furiously digging her hole deeper and deeper. …Wuurrking Fammlees.
    Closing ones eyes, she sounds like a Bunnings ad.

  429. Bacchus

    Kevin Rudd has confirmed that during meetings before he was removed he was given time to change his ways, but that this was renegged upon by Julia. He was simply deposed.

    Writing acceptance speeches before the fact shows underhanded moves afoot to remove him.

    Julias performance on ABC the other week confirmed that she knew and had planned the deposal weeks if not months before the event. Her refusal to answer the questions was confirmation enough for me.

    I used to believe she was caught in the middle, however the latest revelations and the revealing of acceptance speeches for a leadership she claimed she was not remotely interested in prove otherwise.

  430. Geoff, I was unaware that the NBN and the mining tax were on the nose with the electorate. Perhaps you meant to say they were on the nose with you.

  431. Fair enough Shane – although I disagree with your reading of the events. Did you watch the entire interview with Julia Gillard, or only the selected bits shown on 4 Corners?

    “Writing acceptance speeches before the fact shows underhanded moves afoot to remove him

    To me, this shows no more than playing “boy scouts” – be prepared for all possibilities, not that Julia was “fully participating in the coup for a long time.” That there were moves afoot, “underhanded” or otherwise is not in dispute, but Ms Gillard has consistently stated that she didn’t want to be part of a coup at that point in time. She, and most other senior players, would have been aware of moves, but “fully participating in a premeditated and underhanded way”? i think not.

    Is your reading of events perhaps tainted by your disappointment in the coup happening in the first place? The use of emotive words like “underhanded” and “premeditated” would tend to lead me to that conclusion, rightly or wrongly…

  433. Read the polls Ros. The Carbon Tax was one of many Gillard mistakes but by the worst one. It comes back to honesty.
    Re the NBN. Everybody knows fibre is an absolutely fabulous part of communications. Has been for 30 years or more. That is not the issue. Where the NBN plan comes unstuck is that labor want to run it to every front door. Think about it. Every front door. I have just completed a broadband network for the remote sites of the organisation I work for. It is a combination of Cat 6 cable, fibre , and radio (wireless). It is super fast, carries all our media, POS data, CCTV, etc.Running fibre to every front door is total overkill and will be a bottomless money pit. Our wireless runs at over 300 mbps, Cat 6 at 1gbps and fibre 10gbps. The wirless segments of the network are running at mind blowing speed. We are well ahead of NBN today at a fraction of the cost.
    Anyone in the industry knows the NBN should be a mix of technologies.

  434. Mig. I think the older heads will tell her not to stand on Monday. The goal now is to save some of the furniture. Albo is one of the marginal seats. Thats why he changed camps. A rock solid supporter of Gillard and he walked….. speaks volumes Mig.

  435. Geoff is correct and all those in marginals will feel the urge to walk, but their fear of Rudd holds them back.

    It should be open to all contenders with a whisper of a chance and a compromise candidate can be found.

    Smith for PM.

  436. “Anyone in the industry knows the NBN should be a mix of technologies.”

    And it is exactly that – fibre, wireless and satellite. It’s being built for the future to replace infrastructure that should have been gradually replaced years ago.

    The reason that didn’t happen is simply because of the monopoly that is Telstra was hamstrung by the Howard government, removing any incentive to replace aging and failing copper with fibre only to have other carriers piggyback on the network without a commercial rate of return on the fibre.

    The NBN will at long last remove this impediment to true competition bewteen carriers – all will be on a level playing field on common infrastructure.

    There is also a huge difference between setting up a piddly little private network for a few users today, vs setting up infrastructure for an entire country for the future. :roll:

  437. Geoff at 1:07. That’s a big call, however, I can understand some people feeling that way.

    I couldn’t understand why Rudd would quit as FM and then lose crucial campaign time while sitting on a plane on the way back to Aus. He’s a smart bloke. He wouldn’t make such a simple mistake.

  438. Migs, I think Rudd is taking his cues from Bruce Hawker,I also think that Gillard needs to stand so the question is resolved once and for all.

  439. This is the Gillard timeline on the ETS

    Julia Gillard + ETS comments – timeline

    Delay is denial: Gillard urges ETS resolution
    Australian Broadcasting Corporation

    Broadcast: 29/11/2009

    Reporter: Barrie Cassidy

    Deputy Prime Minister Julia Gillard talks to Barrie Cassidy to discuss getting the Emissions Trading Scheme through Parliament.

    JULIA GILLARD: Well Malcolm Turnbull I think is making some simple points that are important and those points are that the Liberal Party has a deal with the Government to pass the Carbon Pollution Reduction Scheme. And let’s put all the Liberal Party infighting to one side. I’ll let Liberals talk about that.

    My message is a simple one. This is a scheme that is in the national interest.

    We live on the hottest and driest continent on earth. We are going to be hit by climate change hardest. That’s why we designed the Carbon Pollution Reduction Scheme, we entered into good faith negotiations, we have amended the package.

    We have a deal with Malcolm Turnbull, Mr Hockey and the Liberal Party to get this legislation through the Parliament and the Senate will sit next week to do just that.

    Now whatever else the Liberal Party wants to do next week, that is a matter for the Liberal Party. But the national interest lies in getting this legislation through.

    BARRIE CASSIDY: Well Malcolm Turnbull said this morning that as recently as last night Joe Hockey said to him that: “I am at one with you on passing the bill.” And he says that Joe Hockey has too much character to do otherwise.

    **
    Gillard: ETS to be re-introduced
    Updated December 02, 2009 14:05:00

    The Deputy Prime Minister Julia Gillard says the ETS legislation will be re-introduced into parliament next year.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2009-12-02/gillard-ets-to-be-re-introduced/1166258

    ***
    Gillard’s new political climate
    Giles Parkinson

    Published 10:30 AM, 24 Jun 2010

    http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/Gillards-new-political-climate-pd20100624-6Q2H5?OpenDocument&src=sph

    Gillard will need to take care to finesse this issue. Her response after the ETS was abandoned was very much in the party line. She told the ABC that the decision had been driven by two realities: the lack of international progress at Copenhagen and the lack of bi-partisan support after the dumping of Malcolm Turnbull. There was no point, she said, in revisiting the issue until 2012, when the fate of an international climate change treaty would be clear.

    ……..It will be a crucial choice for Gillard. Otherwise she may – after Howard, Nelson, Turnbull and Rudd – become the fifth leader in three years to fall victim to climate change politics.

    ****

    Chances of Rudd victory ‘extraordinarily slim’
    http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2012/s3439364.htm

  440. Bacchus

    Is your reading of events perhaps tainted by your disappointment in the coup happening in the first place? The use of emotive words like “underhanded” and “premeditated” would tend to lead me to that conclusion, rightly or wrongly…

    There could be some element of truth in the use of emotive words, but as I understand things after viewing and reading as much as I possibly can I have drawn my conclusion.

    You should know by now that I like to examine all aspects and am not a coailtion lacky by any stretch of the imagination.

  442. Geoff if your broadband scheme is, in your opinion, the best, then why is a cluey bloke like sir Richard Branson building an NBN across England, like we are building in Australia.

    Can you give a plausible answer to that?

  443. Geoff, the media have run the ‘she lied’ line relentlessly for over a year, and it’s been promoted by all the Coalition supporters.

    It’s totally useless to get any of them, or you, to understand the difference between putting a price on carbon for trading, and taxing ordinary punters.
    It’s been a very dishonest and deliberate smear against Julia gillard on behalf of the big polluteing companies who pay millions to their crappy think- tanks to con people.

  444. ….ahhh Pip. England fits 2 1/2 times into Victoria. ..You have answered your own question……..and FYI Branson is using a mix of technologies.

  445. I think that Mr. Rudd asked for time to change his mind. I believe the PM went away to discuss what he asked for and the answer was no.

    Of course the actions of that night was premeditated, I would be worries if they were not. This does not distract from the statement that the PM did not make up her mind until the last moment. I will suggest if that was not the case, the PM would have rejected Mr. Rudd’s plea for more time outright. There is one reason that yo would not give this man more time. He would not have changed but use the time to mount a campaign against Mr. Gillard, as he has done since June 2010.

    The PM and others have said that they did take up with Mr. Rudd’s the effect his behaviour was having on the cabinet and caucus.

    It is not unusual for a PM to be dismissed. What is unusual in this case, the caucus became unhappy before the public.

    Those who want an elected PM are not stupid, I suggest if this is what they want, they work towards getting the Constitution changed. It is not fair to condemn those who ct in accordance with the Constitution.

    I would suggest before one goes down this path, they do a little studying. Look at countries that elect their PM or leaders by the people.

    There are many negatives in doing this, and it would not surprise me that many will come to the understanding that the system we have is not so bad.

    Mr. Rudd said he would not challenge Julia. He did not say he would not support someone else doing it. He did not say he would not run, if a spill occurred.

  446. Mig. Yes it a big call to say Gillard won’t stand. Albo is talking now. It is like he is campaigning for the others to follow him. It makes sense. It takes a lot of heat out of the criticism of the government.
    The biggest influence in this leadership challenge is Bruce Hawker. He is putting the future of his massive consulting business on the line by backing Rudd. Hawker is smarter than the combined smarts of every federal pollie of every party.
    I wouldn’t bet my house on it but I’d put $50 on Gillard not standing. Remember Rudd didn’t stand against Gillard in 2010.

  447. Pip. Its a tax and Gillard did not have a mandate to introduce it. Quite the opposite .. “there will be no….” you know how it ends.

  448. Ministerial sources??

    Kevin Rudd now appears to be the ‘sauce’

    Heat rises over ETS claims
    LENORE TAYLOR, SMH
    16 Feb, 2012 08:21 AM

    LABOR’S internal recriminations about decisions in 2010 that paved the way for its current crisis have spilt over into the fateful decision to abandon the emissions trading scheme.

    Ministerial sources have told the Herald Julia Gillard made implied threats during Labor’s long and bitter internal arguments as she stridently advocated abandoning the ETS and opposed taking the policy to a double dissolution election.

    As the Rudd government’s inner cabinet agonised for months over what to do with the defeated scheme, Gillard insisted that ”under no circumstances” could she or would she support retaining it as Labor policy, they said. Her comments were interpreted by some as a threat to distance herself from the policy if the government decided to maintain it.

    But other senior government sources insist that, while Gillard doubted Labor’s – and specifically Rudd’s – capacity to fight an election on the issue and had strongly argued a decision could no longer be left to drift, she had never said anything that implied a threat to government unity.

    ”I distinctly remember her saying, if we are going to fight it out on this policy then let’s get our stack hats on and fight it out,” one source said.

  449. “I want to finish the job the Australian people elected me to do when I was elected by them to become Prime Minister.”

    Kev, me ol’ china, you know that’s nonsense. In Australia the people don’t elect the prime minister, the parliament doesn’t elect the prime minister – the political party which wins government elects the prime minister.

    Fer gawds sake, you’re starting to sound and act like Tony Abbott!

    http://www.blogotariat.com/node/270996

    I have news for you Kevin, Julia has finished it for you.

  450. El gordo, I would suggest that Klan Girl has been around for quite a long time – the decision as to whether he/she contributes on any blog belongs to the Blogmaster alone and not to any one contributor or indeed any “we”.

  451. Sue @10.26am..indeed Hawker can shove it. Mind you he is an excellent strategist but as far as telling the PM that she should lie down and have her tummy tickled to pave the way for Rudd..see the aforementioned suggestion to shove it.

  454. Geoff, I have no doubt at all that you get your information / propaganda from ltd news and in particular, from the big cheeses at The Australian.

    Julia Gillard’s carbon price promise
    by: Paul Kelly and Dennis Shanahan
    From: The Australian August 20, 2010

    for good measure, here it is again….

    Julia Gillard’s carbon price promise
    by: Paul Kelly and Dennis Shanahan
    From: The Australian August 20, 2010

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/julia-gillards-carbon-price-promise/story-fn59niix-1225907522983

    JULIA Gillard says she is prepared to legislate a carbon price in the next term.
    It will be part of a bold series of reforms that include school funding, education and health.

    In an election-eve interview with The Australian, the Prime Minister revealed she would view victory tomorrow as a mandate for a carbon price, provided the community was ready for this step.

    “I don’t rule out the possibility of legislating a Carbon Pollution Reduction Scheme, a market-based mechanism,” she said of the next parliament. “I rule out a carbon tax.”

    This is the strongest message Ms Gillard has sent about action on carbon pricing.

    While any carbon price would not be triggered until after the 2013 election, Ms Gillard would have two potential legislative partners next term – the Coalition or the Greens. She would legislate the carbon price next term if sufficient consensus existed.

    The ONLY change in PM Gillard’s comments about the ETS in the last three years is the year. That’s all.

  455. TB @10.46am. The strategy from now on should be that ALL cabinet members and any Labor person with any point to push, to start getting their faces in front of the cameras and to start attacking Tony Abbott.

    For far too long has the government played it ‘too nice’, which then allowed Tony Abbott to make the most outrageous claims and tell the most blatant of lies.

    The government needs an attack dog..the best on offer is probably Albanese, but as he has now declared for Rudd, it’s going to have to be someone else..and it ain’t Mark Arbib, who gives the impression of being somewhat “oily”..for what of a better description, plus he is one of “the faceless men”. The government is going to have to find a clean skin to fulfil that role.

    Yes agreed TB, Gillard to win.

  456. Geoff
    ….ahhh Pip. England fits 2 1/2 times into Victoria. ..You have answered your own question……..and FYI Branson is using a mix of technologies.

    As is Australia.

  458. There’s a rumour that a third candidate will run. I wonder who it could be. Mind you, it’s only a news.com rumour so it probably has little substance.

  459. Mr. Rudd is using the Albo speech to the limit.

    I think, just watching Mr. Albanese’s speech, it does not one across as Mr. Rudd would like to think.

    I admire Mr. Albanese for pointing out that it is not black and white. It is complicated.

    I do not believe Mr. Albanese will be happy with Mr. Rudd is saying now

    Is the question really that Mr. Rudd should not have been deposed the way he was. That was what Mr. Albanese was concerned about, not that he was deposed.

    I wish he would stop calling him Albo. It does just not sound genuine.

    Do we wipe out the last twenty months. This should have occurred back then, not now.

    Mr. Rudd should have spoken out in public or within caucus and cabinet and not in the middle of the night to the media.

    Mr. Akbanese is genuine, I do not believe Rudd is.

  460. Geoff I’ve mentioned this many times before and just in case you mssed it, PM Gillard made a formal Climate Change Speech before the 2010 election in which she stated that she wanted to put a price on carbon followed bu an emissions trading scheme

    Not that you’re interested, but it is still on the Labor web site..

    The reason that I repeat this is because I cannot let stand the ruthless lying done by the media and Tea Party Tony.

  461. “You should know by now that I like to examine all aspects and am not a coailtion lacky by any stretch of the imagination.”

    Yes Shane – that’s exactly why I suggested your thinking may have been influenced by your feelings about the coup. I well remember your reaction at the time, and I don’t think that view has changed one iota since. I know you think deeply about most topics you choose to discuss and don’t just accept at face value what is in the public domain.

    On this one, we’ll have to agree to disagree :)

  462. the biggest LIAR is Kevin Rudd

    That thing stood before the press and told them they must not expose the sources of the leaks.

    That spoke volumes
    What a COWARD
    What a KEVIN RUDD, totally and utterly gutless.

  463. No wonder Roaxon said she will not be asked.

    Roxon, former health minister, angrily declared this a ”complete joke” – it was his process that was disastrous. ”He wanted with four days’ notice … to take over the entire health system. Didn’t have any materials for cabinet, didn’t have legal advice, thought – I think it was on the Wednesday or Thursday – that we could prepare something that he’d take to cabinet on Monday to announce on Tuesday.”

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/lids-off-and-its-ugly-20120224-1ttxo.html#ixzz1nMPW6JF2

  464. Bacchus

    I am happy to agree to disagree, we all can never agree on everything.

    It is the disrespect for others opinions and how they are treated after having a different opinion that I find truly distasteful at times.

  465. Generally I agree with that sentiment Shane, however, sometimes debates get a little heated and people say things they probably don’t mean. Others are deliberately nasty…

  466. I’m quite enjoying the debate between Shane and Bacchus. It is passionate, but controlled. To me it comes across as a debate between two intelligent and reasonable people. It is an example of why I like this place. I wish I had their debating ability.

  467. Cu, your link is very concerning…

    Roxon, former health minister, angrily declared this a ”complete joke” – it was his process that was disastrous. ”He wanted with four days’ notice … to take over the entire health system. Didn’t have any materials for cabinet, didn’t have legal advice, thought – I think it was on the Wednesday or Thursday – that we could prepare something that he’d take to cabinet on Monday to announce on Tuesday.”

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/lids-off-and-its-ugly-20120224-1ttxo.html#ixzz1nMPW6JF2

  468. Pip,

    Interesting how Virgin Media promote their broadband offerings

    We’ve invested billions building our fibre optic network. It’s the most advanced way to enjoy broadband.

    Fibre optic is faster

    Other providers deliver their broadband through copper telephone wire, which means your speed gets slower the further you live from the phone exchange. Optical fibres are made of glass, and they’re designed to send vast amounts of information at the speed of light (that’s pretty fast). That’s how we can deliver speeds of up to 100Mb.

    Fibre optic is future proof

    Our fibre optic broadband is so advanced that you’ll be ready for whatever the internet throws at you in the future. And because we want you to do more online, from February 2012 we’re going to be doubling our customers’ broadband speeds.

    Hmmm – sounds similar to the NBN story…

  470. Geoff, I agree that the PM is very capable, like Mr. Gorton before of standing down for the good of the party and the country,

    Therefore I do not see her doing it at this time.

    The PM could bot possibly believe we would be better off by her handing over to Mr. Rudd.

    To do so, would be handing over to Mr. Abbott and having an election within the next six weeks.

    That is the alternative.

    Mr. Rudd grabbed onto Mr. Albanese speech like a drowning man.

    Yes, Rudd did do much good, some of it bordering on miraculous. He also did not have he ability to work with his cabinet or take his party room with him.

    It is Mr. Rudd that has trashed his reputation in his unbridled move for vindication.

    Maybe if he waited and things did not improve, it could have been the time to move. Not now.

    I believe that Mr. Abbott and Mr. Rudd are in the same position. The cannot afford the PM to succeed in any way. Both are only interested in their own needs.

    Sometimes mistakes cannot be fixed, without making hings worse. One just has to get on with life.

    Mr. Albanese is a wonderful example of single parenting.

  471. Bacchus

    People do get a little heated at times but that does not excuse rudeness or personal attacks.

    If they say things they don’t mean they should have the temerity to apologise before even being asked.

    Otherwise it must have been meant to stand as a comment.

  476. ….ahhh Pip. England fits 2 1/2 times into Victoria. ..You have answered your own question……..and FYI Branson is using a mix of technologies.

    … and the same argument goes for setting up “your” system for “remote sites” (does that mean not a lot of traffic?) …

    … Australia is the only “continent country” in the world … long distances and small population …

    … plus the more you fill the airwaves the slower the system … fibre has a BIG advantage … it can deal with a LOT of traffic …

    Comparing Australia’s NBN with any other system is virtually impossible …

    ‘Scuse the pun …

    BTW if fast broadband is only for downloading porn movies faster (according to Tony Abbott) why would you have fast broadband to your remote sites …? Just askin’ ;-)

  477. What is this about … from Twitter… I’m searching …

    Rudd promises to drop a media enquiry into Murdoch, the Murdoch press champion his cause… perhaps those two things are somehow connected

  480. Geoff,

    Could I ask what was your reaction to that article in The Australian where Gillard announced her intention to legislate for a carbon price, on the eve of the election (the one Pip quoted) ?

    If you’d never seen it before you could be forgiven for thinking Gillard “lied” given the blanket coverage the media has given to “the lie”.

    But there’s the evidence she didn’t lie, in the pages of The Australian, with a Kelly/Shannahan by-line.

    Just curious.

  481. I’m not fond of Laurie Oakes’ or any of the ltd news team, but this is interesting…. could the author have been Lindsay Tanner?

    Oakes: The fly in Kevin’s ointment
    by: Laurie Oakes
    From: The Advertiser February 24, 2012

    http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/opinion/oakes-the-fly-on-kevins-wall/story-e6freakc-1226281066977

    His starting point is that “the Rudd Government was never, and could never have been, a functional government because of the man who ran it”.

    Reeling from vicious attacks by former ministerial colleagues determined to finish him off politically, Mr Rudd will see the emergence now of the paper as yet another product of what he described yesterday as “the spin machine of the faceless men”. It no doubt serves the purposes of the former PM’s enemies but it was created well before the possibility of a Rudd leadership comeback started to be taken seriously.

    And its creator is no longer on the scene.

    There is a section on “the culture of blame and fear throughout the Government”, claiming that Mr Rudd’s angry treatment of staff and public servants was very calculated.

    “We all knew of advisers being `put in the freezer’ for crossing their boss.

    “It was childish to watch – he would refuse to look at them in meetings and simply ignore anything they said until they gave up and quit or made amends. In this way he ensured he got obedience, but at the cost, of course, of getting proper advice.”

  483. I’m sorry Bacchus. If it makes you feel better I’ll announce that you and Shane are carrying on like a pair of cut snakes. There, do you feel better? :mrgreen:

  484. Min and Roswell, ditto to your earlier comments on Bacchus and Shane.

    There are discussions like theirs going on all over the country, I’m sure. We’ve just witnessed a very public and important one between our Prime Minister and her Leader of the House.

    The conduct of both has been exemplary. We know that we can trust these two people to put the Australian Labor Party first, even if they don’t agree on some issues. This is the kind of leadership the ALP needs. It will give Caucus members the confidence to vote with similar conviction on Monday.

    I am sure they will make the right decision.

  485. Thought of kills the fractions argument.

    Although Rudd is from the Right, about two thirds of his backers come from the Left (to which Gillard nominally belongs). Only four ministers have so far indicated their support for the former PM – Martin Ferguson, Kim Carr, Robert McClelland, and Chris Bowen – with Anthony Albanese thought to be sympathetic

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/lids-off-and-its-ugly-20120224-1ttxo.html#ixzz1nMgh2jWH

    As for Queensland, if the pretender does not win, it is simple someone in a safe seat will resign, allowing a immediate by-election. That is keeping with the conservatives religion. One keeps having elections until you get the desired results.

  487. Another view of someone nearer the centre.

    Some of these people were in a position to say these things to Rudd. But he had stopped listening. He shut them out. While the clock was ticking and those planes were descending, Rudd kept visiting one more hospital, creating one more media opportunity with one more entrapped patient.

    As a result, policy was neither properly prepared nor argued. Rudd focused obsessively on the health reforms, which turned out to be unimportant, and too little on the CPRS and the mining tax, which mattered immensely. It was in these circumstances, with polls tumbling and mining companies’ anger rising, that Gillard took the decision to challenge.

    As I say, I hardly know Julia Gillard. But from my own impressions and conversations with people who know her well and who have worked for her, I believe she is a decent person. She is warm, she is smart. She listens to people, treats them with respect. She has shown guts. Under relentless pressure, she has run a happy office.

    I have no idea of the precise moment at which she decided to challenge Rudd, but I am certain that she had been as loyal a deputy as he was likely to get. Through the hard months of early 2010, she had long talks with him to keep him on track. Of all the whisperings I heard against Rudd until the time I left Canberra in April 2010, none involved her. In fact, she protected him. As one of her advisers said, they were ”joined at the hip”.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/we-need-to-talk-about-kevin-20120224-1ttxx.html#ixzz1nMiXfHW1

  489. Most seem to be criticising how it happened, not why.

    I believe it would have been much dirtier if Mr. Rudd was given a second chance. He would have immediately began plotting against those he seen as enemies in his cabinet. With a man like Mr. Rudd, one does not give them time to mass support against you.

    If things were as bad as many are saying, and not many disputing, it would have been a dirty, drawn out exercise.

    In hindsight that was the wrong decision, as Mr. Rudd did not see that he was wrong.

    What has followed in a nasty boil in Labor that has this week been lanced. When one puts the scalpel into that boil, it oozes pus and can be very smelly. For the boil to heal, the body must rid itself of the pus.

    Once that has happens, healing begins. There maybe a little scar tissue left, but nothing that cannot be managed.

    The media seems to be portray Mr. Rudd as being in charge of the agenda.

    I believe that the PM is once again being under estimated and in control of what is occurring and will offer over the next couple of days. If this was not true, the spill would occur before Monday.

    An insider view from the outside the centre of activity.

    This was a task of almost unimaginable difficulty. She had been his deputy; she shared responsibility for the state of the government. I also imagine she did not want to add to Rudd’s pain by stressing his flaws. And she would not be human had she not also felt some guilt. Nevertheless, the coup was an act of extreme political violence. It had to be explained in ideas and language that measured up to the act. She had to find words to tell Australians about the crisis Rudd had created – then send him to the backbench.

    There was no chance, in that moment, of reparation or reconciliation. No chance the act could be explained as merely the unfortunate result of a good government losing its way. In that moment, when the story was not told, the insider-outsider gap of Australian politics became a chasm.

    This is all easy to say in hindsight. I supported the coup at the time, and misread its meaning and consequences as much as anyone. Australians were not ready for this. They did not follow the frenetic tweets on the night of the challenge. They were not on the other end of the phone outside the Canberra Vietnamese restaurant. The next morning they woke up to a new prime minister. They knew they had not been told the whole story.

    The deed was murky and brutal, and we still don’t know quite how it happened. But we can be clear about why. If it was only the act of faceless men, as Rudd has said, why was the caucus majority against him so overwhelming that he did not even dare to stand?

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/we-need-to-talk-about-kevin-20120224-1ttxx.html#ixzz1nMkIWbii

  490. Pip at 3.23pm

    We’ll see, but I suspect you’re probably right.

    Ideology, when it decrees that black is white, scares the crap out of me.

  493. What would happen, of a miracle occurs next week and the PM gets a chance to govern without the shit swirling around her.

    Gillard gets a chance to govern

    This would require the ALP to decisively reject Rudd’s leadership bid and allow Gillard to govern without further ALP-instigated destabilisation. To my mind, this can only occur if Rudd resigns from the party and the ALP successfully contests a byelection in his seat of Griffith – Rudd just does not have it in him to sit quietly on the backbench until a 2013 election. As noted on Tuesday, it would take somebody of the stature of Peter Beattie to pull off this trick for Labor, but it is far from impossible.

    Under this scenario, Australia’s economic settings will be largely unchanged until 2014 at the earliest.

    That would mean we’d get a chance to see how pragmatic Labor is prepared to be in amending the Fair Work Act to address major concerns voiced by the BCA, ACCI and AiG, amongst others.

    Those who argue that Labor won’t do enough in this respect are forgetting that Tony Abbott has, to the frustration of many, made IR reform practically a no-go zone for the Coalition. Abbott knows full well the political barriers to rolling back Labor’s reinvigoration of an enterprise-level system of collective bargaining.

    Carbon pricing and the minerals tax plans would proceed in their existing forms. Labor’s intervention in auto manufacturing and the steel industry would continue, as would their numerous skills and education initiatives to assist with what Martin Parkinson called “quite a painful” transformation of the Australian economy.

    Importantly, the basic outline of Australia’s long-standing political structures would be maintained, whether or not Labor won the next election – that is, with no ALP wipeout, the Greens would not be suddenly elevated several strata higher in the political sphere.

    In short, most of what we have would be conserved – a fairly attractive inheritance for either a Labor or Coalition govern to begin re-moulding from late 201

    http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/Rudd-Gillard-Abbott-politics-Labor-leadership-coal-pd20120223-RQRT3?OpenDocument

  495. Roswell, so far the Whys courtesy of the Murdoch media seem to be that Kevin Rudd is a power freak who doesn’t give a stuff about the country..clearly he loves overseas meetings with deathly boring ambassador types..just for the cheap thrills involved.

    Gillard on the other hand is as pure as driven snow, and as per Joan of Arc did the only thing possible and severed the tyrant Rudd’s hand and thereby saved Australia from a fate worse than death.

    BUT on the other hand….

  496. This could be the Rudd scenario. As for the likes of Mr. Martin Ferguson, he holds many views that many would not support.

    What happened over a year ago is of little consquences. What will happen after next Monday is important.

    Rudd takes the Labor reins

    If there is one reason beyond “clinical narcissim”, as Chris Wallace put it in a scathing piece in The Australian yesterday, why Rudd wants his old job back, it’s to smash factionalism in the Labor party forever.

    This, in my view, is utterly unattainable. Rudd might win a caucus ballot – most likely not in the coming week, but some months hence – but he would be leading a government utterly riven by factional animosities. To maintain what Gillard has called “proper cabinet processes” would be almost impossible and, having won the war, it is almost certain that Rudd would oversee a disastrous peace within Labor.

    Under his former rule, as Craig Emerson pointed out last night on ABC TV, Rudd’s campaigning ally Bruce Hawker had more access to the PM than did cabinet ministers. While it’s true that Rudd would receive strong support from the likes of Kim Carr and Martin Ferguson, and that he’d mostly resist the urge to staff his office with what disgruntled colleagues remember as ‘teenagers’, he would be leading a team seething with personal hatred. At best this would allow a Rudd government to limp towards a 2013 poll. Rudd might have the sense to leave most economic policy settings alone, but as I have suggested before (Why BHP is in Rudd’s crosshairs, February 14) he would be sorely tempted to take on at least the mining companies that were so instrumental in his downfall in 2010.

    http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/Rudd-Gillard-Abbott-politics-Labor-leadership-coal-pd20120223-RQRT3?OpenDocument

  497. and this is what is now more probable.

    What does scare me a little, is the reaction we will get from Mr. Rudd next Monday afternoon. I am hoping that he does lose it, but I am afraid that will not happen. The boil must not be allow to start forming again. Things from now on need to be kept in the public view. I believe the PM would be happier if this was the case. The PM does not appear to be into or enjoy playing games.

    Somehow the PM will be made to be the bogey man. For Mr. Rudd, this is firstly about the PM, not gaining power. That is to come later for him.

    Abbott wins government in the weeks ahead

    There is a strong chance in the days ahead of a vote of no-confidence being moved by Tony Abbott, or of a snap House of Reps election being called if Rudd resigns and Labor balks at fighting a by-election in Griffith. Abbott could romp into the lodge via either route.

    The problem with this happening now, as opposed to in 2013, is that we currently have the opposition Labor deserves, rather than the opposition the Australian people deserve.

    Abbott and Co have been so successful attacking Labor over the carbon tax and the ‘stench’ of corruption, that they have not had nearly enough scrutiny in the national media. Their economic house is not in order, being at present a dog’s breakfast of conflicting policies – a mix of dramatic cost cutting and tax cuts, contradicted by regressive middle-class-welfare vote buying.

    The root and branch policy review that has been underway for months is about “90 per cent complete” according to Coalition MPs I’ve spoken to, but the Coalition is not yet ready to govern.

    So which scenario is best for Australia? As I have made clear in my other columns this week, we are fools to wish for sudden policy shifts with the economy looking so robust – albeit at a time of national transformation.

    The Coalition needs time to get its house in order. Julia Gillard needs the time and political clear air to show what her negotiating style of government can achieve.

    And Kevin Rudd needs to disappear from the Labor party forever.

    http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/Rudd-Gillard-Abbott-politics-Labor-leadership-coal-pd20120223-RQRT3?OpenDocument

  498. I’ve kept out of this discussion as there are no certainties in politics, which is after all about power (think otherwise and you can easily be disillusioned.)

    There’s only one person I do not want to see as PM, and that is Abbott.

    I hope the ALP gets things sorted out so this doesn’t happen.

  501. Rabbit, I think that you and I have an equal amount of pragmatism. Same here..anyone but Abbott. I would even prefer Hockey to Abbott..however Roswell, you’re pushing it when it comes to Pyne…

  503. I love it now that Rudd supporters have found “Albo”

    It sounded OK when the PM used the nickname, as she said she has known him all her adult life.

    Coming from Rudd and his supporters, it sounds false.

    Mr. Albanese has not dumped on the PM. The Opposite seems true.

    I feel that Senator Faulkner might come to the same conclusion for the same reasons. If he does not, it indicates that Mr. Rudd heard what he wanted that night, not what was said.

    One can find them supporting Mr. Rudd, when they themselves wished otherwise.

  505. “Cu, your link is very concerning…”

    And sounds very true. I had concerns about Mr. Rudd’s health scheme at the time.

    I got the impression he was reacting to Me. Abbott. The PM has already said the Rudd scheme was not feasible.

    Rudd wants a secret ballot. Secret ballots do not always give the result many believe.

    They have no place in government or parliament.

    We, the voter have the right at all times to know how they voted.

  507. It would not surprise me if a few bus loads turn up outside Parliament on Monday.

    Maybe they could ask Ms. Mirabella to stir them up appropriately.

  508. Cu, I don’t think that anything can be read into calling Albanese, Albo..that’s his nickname and has been..well, for ever.

    Kevin has always called him Albo.

  509. Remember, the polls only say what might happen today. There is no way they tell us what will happen in a year and half.

    No government, I believe have good polls mid term.

  510. Yes Min, Mr Rudd does use nicknames and other slang.

    I have never felt that they come naturally to him.

    I feel that is the reason media takes him to task everytime he does.

    I put the bad language in the same basket.

    It is something that he works hard at doing.

  512. Roswell Rabbit, how about Pyne?

    That would be a “no”.

    St. Peters Colege Year 8 Dramatics Society is a “no”.

  514. Cu, you forget that Kevin Rudd is a farm boy and so the vernacular is the way that he was brought up.

    I find myself on occasions using the same sort of slang, because I come from a working class background…my dad was a factory hand and my mum’s family were dry land wheat and sheep farmers from Tungamah/Katamatite. Mind you, they did run a few head of dairy, but that was only during the good years when the Boosey Creek flowed.

    Fair crack of the whip ;)

  515. The likely aftermath.

    I want stabilty. I want those with over grown egos to get out of the way.

    I do not want to see the hard work of the last year wasted.

    I suspect business does not want the either.

    No one has an entitlement to become PM. No one has an entitlement to believe that once they get the job, they are there forever.

    Senator Christine Milne hit back shortly after Rudd’s speech yesterday: “Mr Rudd should realise that, not only is a fixed price period designed to give business much greater confidence and certainty, and to provide time for the Climate Change Authority to develop its five year carbon budgets, but that it is the result of an enormous amount of work and good faith negotiation by many people.

    “A review within six months is an unworkable timeframe as it is far too soon to give a proper picture of how the scheme is working. But it also jeopardises the whole scheme by giving Tony Abbott much more influence over climate policy again before the community has a chance to see how it works.”

    Rudd’s comments on climate change reveal the extent to which he imagines he will retake autocratic control of the Labor cabinet – Kevin Rudd decides that one of the hardest fought battles of the Gillard prime ministership needs to be refought, oblivious to the fact that the Greens would block the destruction of the current carbon pricing package at every step.

    That’s desperation from Rudd. It also demonstrates a profound delusion about what democracy really is.

    http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/Kevin-Rudd-PM-leadership-challenge-Julia-Gillard-A-pd20120224-RS9J9?opendocument&src=idp&utm_source=exact&utm_medium=email&utm_content=16743&utm_campaign=kgb&modapt=commentary

  516. Min, I lived on farms including a dairy farm on the Yarramalong Valley where there was little new blood before the 1950′s.

    We were among the first outsiders into the valley.

    It was unbelievable that four main families went back to the First Fleet. It reminded one of the Hillbillies. (They were decent people) They just came from another age. Big money has cleared the place out now.

    Anyway, Rudd left there as a child and attended a leading college in Brisbane I believe.

    His mother was definitely not a hill billy.

    I did not hear that type of talk.

    I did not come across it until I married my husband, an rexperience I would rather forget. The man that never grew up, the mug lair.

  517. I do know who will benefit.

    I think it is important to look carefully at how the implementation of the current tax goes in its first six months,” Rudd told reporters, without giving details.

    The powerful Minerals Council of Australia, representing the country’s biggest mining companies, called on Rudd to quickly rethink the carbon tax if he regains his old job.

    “He should not wait to review it in six months if he becomes prime minister on Monday, he should do it immediately,” Mitch Hooke, the council’s chief executive said.

    Reuters

    http://www.worldbulletin.net/?aType=haber&ArticleID=86266

  518. shane, I’m not bitter nor am I disrespecting your point of view. However, in light of the facts about Kevin Rudd’s behaviour and his incompetence I find your somewhat romantic idea that everyone is picking on him, rather puzzling. If I have offended you, I apologise. It wasn’t my intention.

    I have always respected your ability to get to the heart of any argument, your impartiality and the good grace always to give credit where it’s due. Which is why I find your blindness wrt Rudd out of character.

    I think they made the right decision. Kevin Rudd was given the leadership on the understanding that he would act in the best interests of the party and the people they represent. In the final analysis, he did neither and he was sacked.

    It happens all the time, under performers get the chop.

    Off to the fjords for you Roswell.

    Are you Pyneing for the fjords, Roswell?

  519. jane

    Your apology is accepted. I have enjoyed our conversations over the time. I am somewhat taken aback by a number on here who I agree with 99 times out of 100 but when I disagree this 1 time the tone changes to hostility. That is the most disappointing part of this debate to me.

    It detracts from the site and pushes people with valid opinios who are not aggressive to simply leave and go elsewhere and IMO this gives CW a bad name. It should welcome and respect opinions at all times, not just when it suits the agenda at the time.

    I have a right to an opinion and to support Kevin Rudd just like Anthony Albanese.

    I am not blind to his faults at all and have criticised him on numerous times before. It is definately not a romantic idea or notion. It is an opinion just as valid as yours. I find your blindness comment strange because unlike 99% of the commentors on this site I see faults in both sides of politics, a thing very very very rare at CW.

    This is about taking a side on who to support and whether what was done in 2010 was right or wrong. In my opinion it was wrong so very very wrong.

    Irrespective of all the reasoning about our rules and westminster government system etc etc etc the voting public did not like what happened and feel cheated. No amount of chest beating and huffing and puffing about how things are done changes this fact.

  520. Pingback: My Homepage

Leave a Comment

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

Gravatar
WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. ( Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. ( Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. ( Log Out / Change )

Cancel

Connecting to %s