Can it be that we are in for the marathon of all marathon of election campaigns. It is now…
The media have labelled this:
A New Liberal Party Manifesto
The definition of a manifesto being a public declaration of principles, policies, or intentions, especially of a political nature.
Hope: that’s useful, one must always live in hope especially that Abbott would ever honor any of his promises.
Reward: Yes Tony we know who you are planning to reward.
Opportunity: Abbott, always the opportunist.
Over to you…
Update courtesy of Kevin Rennie:
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Miglo
Min
shaneinqld
Kevin Rennie
patriciawa
lunalava
wixxy
Hope – stunt works
Reward – gullible MSM turns up for stunt action
Opportunity – MSM buys stunt spreads misinformation
Sounds convincing as last weeks poor try at stunt will be soon forgotten.
It is sad to see a grown man that does not have the disability to see or accept reality.
He still cannot accept the fact that he lost. He cannot accept the fact that the prudent thing is to accept that Ms. Gillard is the PM. He cannot accept the fact that government have a right to run their course, unless they are defeated on the floor of the lower house.
Mr. Abbott is so obsessed, he cannot find the time or energy to scan bills that come before the house.
PM Gillard has had all her bills passed without amendment. This is the first time I can remember parliament not sitting into the early hours, passing the budget bills.
PM Gillard is very proficient or Mr. Abbott is very amiss, not doing his job.
Hope – that Abbott is never elected prime minister
Reward – he’ll reward the workers by bringing back WorkChoices
Opportunity – to get rid of Abbott and to move forward to a better Australia
Are we to hope the lying bastard rewards opportunity ,
should we hope for a reward from the mining boom opportunity,
or hope the opportunity to have nbn is rewarded,
given his past statements the probability is that there is no hope of expecting rewards from presents opportunities.
present, sorry
CU, my thoughts too. Abbott has expressed that his job is to oppose. I would have thought that an Opposition’s job is to improve. Anyone with stats on this..how many amendments has the Abbott opposition put forward?
Tony Abbott’s hope is that the media will never ask him what he means by Hope. Reward. Opportunity.
One thing that amuses me..or at least would amuse me if it wasn’t Abbott who said it, is the line beneath the slogan Let’s get Australia back on track
Being one of the best performing economies in the world, I hadn’t actually noticed that Australia was ‘off track’. A trip to the supermarket this morning didn’t reveal beggars caps in hand, there were trolleys laden with goodies while people’s mobile phones rang with the latest iTune…thingy…
From: http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/breaking-news/facts-and-figures-needed-on-tony-abbott-tax-plan-julia-gillard/story-e6frf7jx-1226082163836
Heaven help us…what sort of word is ‘prudent’. Who in the two decades has used the word ‘prudent’.
Min, it is a word I use a lot. I would not apply it ti Mr. Abbott in any way.
Prudent to me, means common sense and care. Mr. Abbott is incapable of either.
Further more, he does not take the time with sound bites or smart ideas to reflect on what the reaction will be down the track.
The man lives in a time warp of today only. He does not remembers the past and the future is beyond his perception.
Imagination is something the man is deprived of.
PM Gillard has slowly been releasing the rope. The lady is not short of patience but I believe she is ready to use the rope to pull in a dope.
CU, being a visual thinker the image of Abbott in smugglers and the word ‘prudent’ did not compute.
I believe you have it. I think that your analysis of Tony Abbot being “he does not take the time with sound bites or smart ideas to reflect on..” is accurate.
I believe that we have seen the last of Tony Abbott when the Greens take over the Senate. Because in just a few days time, who is going to care what TA says or does. Certainly he might have a friends in high places prepared to do him favors, but he has run out of ideas.
My prediction is that we will see Big Things happening after August.
I carried this on from over here
http://cafewhispers.wordpress.com/2011/06/24/cooking-at-the-cafe-take-one-live-pig/#comment-27826
but thought it really fits better here
‘what’s his purpose.’
To make it look like he offering something (even if it is uncosted thought bubbles)
And he knows he will get away with it, to use it as a distraction from Labor’s Carbon Pricing. The more detail we get on the Pricing mechanism, the more thought bubbles we will see.
All he needs to do is point to something with BLING, and the gormless journos will respond. He has them wrapped around his little budgie.
It really is pathetic, on one side, we have thought bubbles that are repeated verbatim without any examination, whereas, on Labors side, we have policies which are often reported incorrectly, and applied maximum scrutiny (nothing wrong with that, but it should apply to both), and any negative finding, no matter how inaccurate, is splashed front and center.
Tom, fear not. The carbon tax is a goer. I have it on the best authority..friends in high places, wink wink, nudge nudge.
The MSM on the other hand are a force to be contended with. I seem to recall prior to the ’07 Election and I certainly know that you were there too that we ‘the lefties’ had a theory – that it was ‘the government’ who received all the good press, but now that Labor was ‘the government’ then we would be receiving the same space as did one JWHoward. Didn’t happen did it…..
Kevin that’s brilliant!!!!!!!!! In fact I I’ll add it to the topic.
Kevin Rennie
Where are the bumper stickers
Min
Cheers! The cheek of Abbott to use Obama’s ‘hope’. He should have used his mentor’s ‘incentivation’ complete with white picket fence. Oz politics have certainly been stunted by his miserable offerings.
Full marks to Kevin
‘Where are the bumper stickers’
Where are the budgie stickers
Tom..the budgie stickers??? I daren’t ask….
Kevin. Abbott is for me, for want of a better description a very spooky person. He’s reptilian.
Tom
We must have a budgie/bumper sticker competition. It could be a trihardathon, backpedalling to the future.
Kevin..you’ve earned yourself the job
As the health care professional says:
It’s only a little prick – it won’t hurt
My entry in the sticker competition.
Well Abbott did say it himself….
The Coalition’s policies would be picked to pieces by Treasury at some point, Mr Abbott said.
Yes indeed, I’m sure that they will be…
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/06/26/3253862.htm
The Liberal manifesto aims ‘to broaden’ their ‘focus from attacking the Gillard government to laying out an agenda for the future.’
Good move, lots of infrastructure spending without a CO2 tax.
And the Liberal infrastructure spending model speaks for itself.
hahahahahaha
Below being a very good indication of why Abbott can never be trusted…
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/victory-for-hard-right-creates-an-unworkable-team/story-e6frg72x-1226082373887
I just heard along the grapevine that the libs will be using lourd munktoon as their chief accountant when it comes time for their costings (they are foreshadowing this to be some time well AFTER they win an election).
With his special formula using a conservating radiative forcing, all numbers will come in well under reality.
Tom, apparently costings are all an evil plot…
Federal Opposition Leader Tony Abbott has accused Prime Minister Julia Gillard of using the Treasury as a political weapon after she offered him officials to cost his new tax plans.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/06/26/3253862.htm
“Tom, apparently costings are all an evil plot…”
Conservatives no longer trust Treasury. The whole place has been politicised by the ALP. Furthermore Labor types tend to go into the Public Service. So I would be very careful to trust anything Treasury says. I could imagine if people like Miglo were in there what he would do to things submitted by the Liberal party.
If you remember a new economic indicator was produced called the structural deficit not too long after the 2007 election. And it apparently showed that Costello had left a large structural deficit (whatever that it).
Well Malcolm Turnbull says it was commissioned for political purposes and newer work by Treasury comes to a completely different conclusion.
Numbers tend to be apolitical. They sit there on the page and seldom voice an opinion. If Abbott doesn’t like the result he can always go and get a 2nd opinion, but it seems that Abbott is refusing to have his numbers scrutinised by anyone whatsoever.
“Numbers tend to be apolitical.”
Really?? Are you a human being or a robot??
‘Furthermore Labor types tend to go into the Public Service.’
Godwin Gretch was a Commie!!
It wasn’t an evil plot, just a political stunt. If the PM has some semblance of control she would not even be discussing the Opposition.
It has been a year since joolya took over from Kevin and the stench is palpable, she has overplayed her hand.
The NBN is good infrastructure and a vote catcher, while the CO2 tax is a turnoff.
If joolya said today that she has decided to scrap the idea of the tax and adopt the Coalition approach, Labor would have a reasonably good chance of getting back into power.
I am interested to hear what commenters here have to say on this salient point.
‘Abbott is refusing to have his numbers scrutinised by anyone whatsoever’, until he wins the election.
That’s fair, he’s only the Opposition and the election is a couple of years away.
A stunt is something with no real outcome, the sole purpose being the publicity. A treasury costing would have an outcome aka a costing.
‘I am interested to hear what commenters here have to say on this salient point.’
I’d say our country is truly buggered, with two parties willing to throw millions of dallors at polluters without any real outcome.
Min @ 6.34
The assassination story keeps on going
Abbott ‘deceived’ Reith on bid for Liberal presidency
TONY Abbott is being accused by senior Liberals of deceiving Peter Reith over the Liberal presidency as well as humiliating him by effectively making public his vote for Alan Stockdale.
Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/national/abbott-deceived-reith-on-bid-for-liberal-presidency-20110626-1glt4.html#ixzz1QQOubOS4
Apparently though in our MSM a public betrayal and stabbing is only “deceitful” when it comes to the Liberals. And remember it was Abbott who invited the media into the conference. So Abbott wanted all of the party put on notice to who is ruling the outfit – the Right not the Moderates.
It seems that Reith can now be added to the somewhat lengthy list of people ‘used’ by Abbott. How to make an enemy..just follow the Abbott formula of going back on one’s word.
“Miglo were in there what he would do to things submitted by the Liberal party.
Neil, I see you are still into name calling. Now you have moved onto slander and libel.
Do you really believe everyone that does not agree with you are mad and bad.
Mr. Abbott will not have his figures checked, because he knows that they are just another stunt on his part.
Sadly Mr. Abbott believes anything goes.
Mr Hockey made a silly statement in reply to PM Gillard offer of Treasury assistance. He said they did not want to be lectured by Labor.
One, how is an offer of assistance lecturing. PM Gillard said the opposite, she said it would give the public he opportunity of making a choice.
Two, is the Opposition spends most of it’s time lecturing Labor. The Opposition every time they open their mouths demand that PM Gillard does this or that.
“If joolya said today that she has decided to scrap the idea of the tax and adopt the Coalition approach, Labor would have a reasonably ”
el gordo, postponing the ETS is what got Labor in trouble in the first place.
Dumping it altogether would be the end of Labor.
Neil, yes indeed Migs has been a PS under a Liberal government, specifically one John Winston Howard. Just maybe maybe you might like to consider that those with a more intimate knowledge of the Liberals provides a very big incentive to veer towards the left side of politics.
CU, not even worth speculating about because it isn’t going to happen. The tax will go through with the assistance of the Greens and courtesy of Migs’ Australian Blog Sites is now 3 days, 14 hours and 44 minutes.
Tony Abbott complained that he couldn’t afford to have his policies costed because he doesn’thave the same resources as the government but now Mr. Swan has said that he will provide the assistance of Treasury free of charge. Mr. Abbott has no excuses as to why he wouldn’t avail himself of these resources.
It is worth reading van Onselen in the Oz today 2 good quotes
IT turns out Tony Abbott isn’t just a weathervane when it comes to climate change: he is also a weathervane so far as who should be Liberal Party president.
Abbott wasn’t shy about revealing his backflip. Putting the sanctity of the secret ballot to one side, he showed his ballot paper to Stockdale (to a healthy laugh) then to deputy leader Julie Bishop (who nodded approvingly)
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/victory-for-hard-right-creates-an-unworkable-team/story-e6frg72x-1226082373887
Surprisingly this story of the backstabbing/assassination is in the Murdoch and Fairfax press but not the ABC. Where is the bias now.
“Mr. Abbott will not have his figures checked, because he knows that they are just another stunt on his part.”
Well have the Carbon tax figures been checked?? Do they have the details yet?? Why check the figures of the people who are not in govt when we are about to have a carbon tax thrust upon us??
Neil of Sydney you cannot check the figures on something which is yet to become a fact but rather you do something called modelling and Treasury has completed a number of these on the carbon tax.
Another misleading story from our conservative dominated ABC:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/06/27/3253948.htm
Under the broad headline “Going Cold …New research shows…..”
OMG is the BS El Gordo keeps going on about really true?
Nah, its just a beat up from the conservative Lowy Institute’s annual poll asked about 1,000 people for their opinion.
Neil, Mr. Abbott is claiming he can manage the budget, give tax cuts and fund his Direct Action out of the present budget figures. He is claiming that he will do this by being “prudent”.
Mr. Abbott said because he is not in government, he cannot prove this.
PM Gillard has offer him the assistance of the Treasury.
I am sure that the governments figures, as always will be assessed from all angles,
“Surprisingly this story of the backstabbing/assassination is in the Murdoch and Fairfax press but not the ABC. Where is the bias now.”
I do not see anything wrong with this. Abbott would be friendly with a number of people. If it was me I would say go for it if people wanted to stand for election. I most probably would tell them if I would back them or not.
We do not have enough evidence of what went on.
Only the newspaper report which you seem to now trust after telling me not to trust the OO. I wish you would make up your mind.
Also you cannot assassinate someone who is not in the office.
Nothing beats the backstabbing of Rudd. It is the backstabbing of all backstabbings brought to you by the low life of the ALP.
“thrust on us”
Not really, it is something that has been discussed for more than a decade.
It is something that should have been in place by now.
It is something that was promised by Howard and Rudd.
It is something that is well and truly overdue.
Luna..I think that this poll can be easily dismissed. A poll from the Lowy Institute – not one single mention of demographics – it could be 1,000 of anything/anyone. If normal polls aren’t bad enough with no breakdown of age group/gender at least they usually provide Voting Intentions.
It could therefore easily be concluded that this poll consists of 1,000 over 85yr old communists…or similar…
Min, do not be cruel to the over 85 year olds. We do have one very wealthy, bright and energetic 102 year old that supports a carbon pricing mechanism, who I much doubt has a communist background.
To ask whether you support a carbon tax can be problematic.
If you supported a carbon pricing mechanism such as cap and trade, you would be likely to answer this question in the negative.
CU..hehe
Nothing beats the backstabbing of Rudd. It is the backstabbing of all backstabbings brought to you by the low life of the ALP.
G’day Neil(s) … how are your school holidays going?
If you were older you would know about John Howard’s “rise” to “fame” and “power” – just Google … “Peacock” …
Then come back and report your findings … of course check with your Young Liberals supervisor first though …
How many of are at the Young Libs are in this morning?
…’postponing the ETS is what got Labor in trouble in the first place.
Dumping it altogether would be the end of Labor.’
Interesting perspective, but we should just look ahead to see how we can save the party from pariah status.
The PM could admit to the electorate that the science may not be settled and we should wait a couple of years to see how it pans out, as direct observation shows the earth is cooling.
This would give her a breathing space before the next election.
Re The PM could admit to the electorate that the science may not be settled and we should wait a couple of years to see how it pans out, as direct observation shows the earth is cooling.
And least in that way Julia would differentiate herself from Abbott
But in a radio interview today Mr Abbott stressed action on climate change was necessary.
“We do need to do something about emissions and the Coalition’s position is that climate change is real. Humanity is making a contribution,” he told Adelaide’s FiveAA.
ABC has the definitive piece on the NBN, everything you needed to know but the Australian would not publish:
http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/2770630.html
Min, you are correct. The likes of el gordo are still struck in arguing that climate change does not exist.
The argument has moved on for most, including Mr Abbott to how we deal with climate change.
The Lowry report was interesting on a number of fronts. It appears that community attitudes on refugees has soften a little.
el gordo, I think up to thirty years is enough discussion for any subject. Putting off action for any longer is futile.
Be afrayd, be very afrayd, Bob Carter gets a say in the Age.
http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/politics/an-inconvenient-fallacy-20110626-1glmu.html#ixzz1QPyTiCfx
The end is nign for the warmists.
We cannot believe anything Abbott says nor that he believes what he is saying .
The Lowy institue result is also interesting in hte way that it frames the climate change questions in a veil of controversy, whereas the others are simple yes/no questions. As ‘the artist formerly known as’ highlights.
http://guttertrash.wordpress.com/2011/06/27/lowy-poll-bitter-pill-for-gillard-government/#comment-66307
Why do they need to coach respondents one might ask?
The Lieberals 3 word slogan continues just add the magic ingredient “NO”
Nohope Norewards NOopportunity.
(I’d have said the Lowy report was near-junk, because it entangles stuff, or maybe the stuff is already entangled…eg, how just how much do you trust indonesia, and iranian refugees floated in from there, and how do you feel about spending money on people you’re not all that crash hot about, especially the ones you worry might have nukes, say from Commie Red or designated evil-axis places, and how many of them, in their tens or their hundreds, people, not hotstuff nukes, that is, would you like? And extracting anything of worth from the report would be an impossible exercise in undoing or recalibrating those questionable entanglements, as each question affects the next, and all subsequent ones.)
Well said as always Metatron
el gordo @ 8.03am, your man Abbott wouldn’t even have his budget policies costed PROPERLY by Treasury when the chance to win over the Independents was in the balance’
Instead his team implied quite arrogantly that Treasury couldn’t be trusted. [Where did that meme come from, the IPA?? ]
Unfortunately for him the accountants who [didn't] ‘audit’ their policies are still under investigation by their own Chartered Accountants association.
Pip, the whole thing is just typical politics and typically nobody here seems to have grasped the significance of Bob Carter’s OP in the Age.
This is a game changer.
‘This is a game changer.’
lol, printing a page of rubbish is ‘a game changer’
‘the whole thing is just typical politics’
No, politicians don’t typically accuse public servants of being untrustworthy and in the other teams pockets
Politicians do not typically try and trash the reputation and trust of the Treasury, simply because the pollies numbers don’t add up
el gordo, @ 10.58am, what a shame that no comments are allowed on the Gina-altered THE AGE !
Of course there is no link between Mr. Carter’s opinions and the companies who provide his funding !
http://www.desmogblog.com/people/bob-carter
Denial-a-palooza Round 4: ‘International Conference on Climate Change’ Groups Funded by Exxon, Koch Industries
In what has become an annual non-event, the Heartland Institute will gather the who’s-who of the global warming denial network together in Chicago this weekend for the fourth International Conference on Climate Change.
As in years past, the event is expected to receive very little mainstream media coverage. The deniers like to think the reason is some liberal media conspiracy. In reality, the lack of interest stems chiefly from the fact that this denial-a-palooza fest is dripping with oil money and represents a blatant industry effort to greenwash oil and coal while simultaneously attacking the credibility of climate scientists.
Despite the lack of press interest, the show must go on. After all, the Chicago meet-up will provide deniers and industry front groups a chance to coordinate their ongoing efforts to smear the reputation of the IPCC, and they can reminisce about the Climategate non-scandal like boys in the schoolyard kicking around a rusty old can.
For insight into the underlying aim of the Chicago denier conference, let us take a look at the funding sources for the sponsoring organizations.
Read more: Denial-a-palooza Round 4: ‘International Conference on Climate Change’ Groups Funded by Exxon, Koch Industries
The Institute of Public Affairs is well represented on ABC’s The Drum.
Gratis!
http://www.ipa.org.au/people
From David Karoly at The Conversation: Bob Carter’s climate counter-consensus is an alternate reality
Kevin, thanks for the link, it’ll keep me laughing all day.
CLEARING UP THE CLIMATE DEBATE: Professor David Karoly goes down the rabbit hole of Bob Carter’s climate theories.
In his book Climate: The Counter-consensus, Bob Carter describes three different realities on climate change; a science reality, a virtual reality and a public reality.
After finishing the book, I realised that there is another reality on climate change, the Carter reality, which seems to be from a different world.
“Abbott wouldn’t even have his budget policies costed PROPERLY by Treasury”
That is because after submitting some things it looks like Swan leaked the Treasury analysis. The Federal Police were then called in because it would have been a criminal offense if the leak came from Treasury.
Anyway when they were submitted Treasury analysis showed that the Coalitions policies were better than Labors. The budget would have been improved by $0.86B to $4.5B with Coalition policies but only $0.1B.
So why did the Independents side with labor if Treasury analysis showed the Coalitons policies were better???
Neil, you have to suspend a lot of reality to come to your decisions.
One of the main concerns the independents had were the what the Treasury raised in relation to the Opposition’s economic policies.
The policies, simply did not add up.
They simply do not add up now. How can you find a decent savings getting people back to work with low unemployment.
Getting the available people back to work will be a costly project with any savings a long way down the track.
Mr. Abbott is sprouting slogans that have little meaning.
Thought bubbles that do not produce much.
Neil, as you said the police investigated claims of treasury leaks. No leaks were found.
Think, the person to benefit from any leaks was Mr, Abbott.
“The policies, simply did not add up.”
Treasury said the Coalitions policies gave a better bottom line. It was just not as big as the Coalition claimed.
And they stopped submitting their policies for analysis because of the leak and the Police were called in.
Treasury said they “added up” to savings of $0.86B to $4.5B over 4 years
‘I hope that most people live in the real world and accept the science reality, not the Carter reality.’
I’ll stand with Carter against Karoly and his supporters, then when we win the warmists will blame Reinhart for swaying the populace.
Which may be the reason for this sudden change of heart by Fairfax.
“Neil, as you said the police investigated claims of treasury leaks. No leaks were found.”
Well someone leaked them. Most probably Swan. It is not a criminal offense if Swan did the leaking only if Treasury does it.
But Treasury said the Coalitions policies were better. $0.86-$4.5B improvement compared to $0.1B with labor.
Labor then gave away the $0.1B improvement to buy Wilkies vote.
From: http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/breaking-news/opposition-to-explain-tax-cut-in-good-time-says-andrew-robb/story-e6frea7l-1226082708453?from=public_rss
THE federal opposition says it won’t be pressured by the government into immediately releasing the costings of its tax cuts.
Heaven help us, we’ve been waiting since before the last election for the opposition to release costings about anything….
And I am still waiting for the costings on the Carbon Tax. You know the one which the people in power want to introduce.
Neil, the saying is Patience is a Virtue. The government has explained that costings are a couple of weeks away. So far we have various modellings and that the precise numbers will be released in a couple of weeks.
(One likes to imagine that somewhere, off in a parallel universe, a PBO was never established, or at least languished for years, because someone was busy saving on frozen PS recruitments for it, leaving it a fulfilling, but ultimately empty, promise.)
Is this one of the worst political advertisements ever…
The competitions tough Min
Reinhart continues to gobble up Fairfax, the media baroness is on a mission and I agree with you that she is having an impact on editorial policy.
“the saying is Patience is a Virtue.”
But you lot want the Coalitions tax costings now but we have to wait for the details of the Carbon tax.
And “Costless Savings Are Priceless” post is interesting. The PBO may be another broken Gillard promise.
Tom, that advert is very very convincing..yeah let’s keep WorkChoices
‘But you lot want the Coalitions tax costings now’
Actually, thats not what they were asking. They merely offered the use of Treasury so that the costings can be done at some time
yabot ran from this, cos we all know Treasury is full of little commies like godwin gretch
Neil re “But you lot want the Coalitions tax costings now but we have to wait for the details of the Carbon tax.”
Yes because presumably the Coalition is basing their promises of tax cuts on factual information. There is revenue to be raised by doing X and savings to be made by doing Y. So tell us how you are going to raise the revenue and which cuts you are going to make.
You know the election is 2 years away. Treasury has more important things to be doing other than to be used for political purposes by the ALP.
Why is it political purposes?
I thought that getting correct information to the people is the duty of all politicians.
Surely Mr. Abbott wants to ensure the public that his policies are worthy.
The only information I am interested in is what Mr. Abbott is going to cut.
He can tell us this without any outsider being involved.
Neil, Treasury is a public service. Hence the term Public Servants. Abbott complained that he couldn’t afford to have his policies costed because he doesn’t have the resources and Wayne Swan has offered him this assistance.
Nah, Treasury is sitting around absolutely BUSTING to have a crack at Abbott’s numbers. In fact I’ll bet that they would volunteer their time just to have a squiz.
“I thought that getting correct information to the people is the duty of all politicians. ”
Yeah but why 2 years in advance. Furthermore the worlds situation may change and Coalition polices may change and then have to be re-costed.
Gillard is not doing this out of the goodness of her heart. In fact i doubt if she has a heart. She is one scheming devious woman. As Rudd found out.
She most probably has a trophy room full of assassinated heads.
Robb is saying that they cannot produce figures yet because they do not know what harm Labor will do in the next two years. If that is the case, why say they can do it.
All we are getting is more thought bubbles or slogans with no substance. All Mr. Abbott is saying, he can do it better with no proof.
Nothing new, another stunt.
Neil,. why the need for nastiness? What does it achieve or prove.
Nasty??? I think I am telling the truth.
Gillard is not doing this out of the goodness of her heart..she is one scheming devious woman..she most probably has a trophy room full of assassinated heads.
And as per your comment of this morning, I’m a robot…
Neil, I am not that interest in what happens in two years.
I am interested in why Mr. Abbott thinks he can do it better now. For that I need to know if Mr, Abbott’s alternative ideas and schemes are feasible.
For that I need to be able to trust what he says. It is up to Mr. Abbott to prove he can be trusted.
Let’s just call it as it is..Abbott is not prepared to put his policies up for any sort of scrutiny. Firstly he bleated that he could not ‘afford’ to have his policies costed, and so Swan said that he could avail himself of the resources of Treasury. Put up, or shut up.
Neil, it is possible to tell the truth without being nasty.
“she is one scheming devious woman..she most probably has a trophy room full of assassinated heads.”
The above is only your opinion. Not a mature opinion at that.
The truth is that Mr. Abbott a great thing of announcing policies. The promises have not lasted two days.
Sorry. left “made’ out.
“Let’s just call it as it is..Abbott is not prepared to put his policies up for any sort of scrutiny.”
He will put them up when he is ready.
When are we going to see the details from the people in govt on the Carbon tax??
Re “she is one scheming devious woman..she most probably has a trophy room full of assassinated heads.”
Isn’t that kinda sexist…..
A scheming devious woman..a trophy room…
Well Neil, we will treat his sayings with contempt until he does.
Neil you are obviously a person in the know about Liberal Party policy, when do you think that Mr Abbott might be ready.
Actually I now very little about the Liberal party.
When do you think the Carbon tax policy will be ready?? You know the people now in govt are producing a Carbon tax policy.
Neil..a coupla weeks..patience is a virtue…
And you are certainly not the only one who knows little about Liberal Party policies.t’is a mystery..
‘She is one scheming devious woman.’
It may be accurate in a political sense, but in these political correct days it’s deemed sexist.
The PM is one scheming devious politician.
There, fixed it.
Min, Neil just cannot help himself. It is a shame he keeps his best for women and the sick.
I sometime think he does not realise that he says the things he does.
Neil @ 1.52pm,
But Treasury said the Coalitions policies were better. $0.86-$4.5B improvement compared to $0.1B with labor.
When did Treasury make that statement?
The statement that I remember even made headlines in The Australian
Treasury finds $7bn hole in Tony Abbott’s costings
Dennis Shanahan and Lanai Vasek From: The Australian September 01, 2010 11:47PM
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/treasury-finds-7bn-hole-in-tony-abbotts-costings/story-fn59niix-1225913036857
TREASURY’S costings of the Coalition’s election promises have found a $7 billion hole in the opposition’s claim that its election promises and proposals would save $11.5bn over the next four years.
Treasury added that if some of the assumptions that the Coalition had used to come up with the figure did not hold up, the net benefit of its policies could be as low as $500 million.
Treasury’s costing of the government’s promises and savings proposals suggested Labor’s economic plans would raise the underlying cash balance in 2013-14 by $106 million.
The three rural independents who hold the power to decide which side of politics will form a minority government released the costings last night.
Bob Katter, Tony Windsor and Rob Oakeshott had requested the Treasury and Finance Department briefings in their bid to assess the major parties’ policies.
The independents said they were releasing the figures in the public interest and would discuss the figures with ministers and opposition frontbenchers in a series of meetings today.
Mr Windsor said last night that the Coalition’s costings had a “black hole”.
“The, what I call black hole, is somewhere between $7 (billion) and $11bn, the difference between what the Coalition said their costings were and what the Treasury would suggest in terms of an incoming government for their bottom line,” Mr Windsor told the ABC’s Lateline.
Neil, perhaps you could provide a link to verify your statement.
“The PM is one scheming devious politician.”
Well the PM needs to have some skills of this nature to deal with a sneaky, obnoxious, lying, devious and weather vane of an Opposition leader.
Now can someone tell me what I have added to the debate. Nothing!!
‘When are we going to see the details from the people in govt on the Carbon tax??’
When they have completed negotiating it with the Greens and Independants
You know, ideally what they should be doing with the opposition, if they were prepared to come to the table, instead of having the worlds longest hissy fit
More on the Coalition Budget policy ‘costings’
http://www.petermartin.com.au/2010/08/robb-says-perth-auditor-as-good-as.html
Friday, August 27, 2010
Robb says Perth auditor “as good as Treasury” as investigation begins
The Coalition has defended the work of the Perth accountancy firm that costed its election promises as the Institute of Chartered Accountants has launched a formal investigation into its conduct.
The institute revealed late yesterday it had received a complaint about the conduct of two members of the firm, WHK Horwath.
The Age reported last week that Sydney University accountancy professor Bob Walker was to make the complaint in a private capacity, arguing that if the firm had produced such on a prospectus it would be an offence under the Corporations Act.
The complaint alleges advice provided by the firm was clearly intended to influence the outcome of the election and failed to meet ethical and professional standards.
Professor Walker said yesterday his nine-page complaint alleged that the report prepared by Horwath was not an audit in accordance with the relevant standard despite Coalition figures including Shadow Treasurer Joe Hockey repeatedly referring to it as an audit.
“But there were no disclaimers making this clear… either in their report or after it was issued. In fact there were fewer than you would expect to find on a review of historical information or even on a report an accountant prepared making up a tax return on information supplied.”
I am still trying to comprehend the logic in the statements that the Prime Minister is a ‘devious woman’ because she offers to have the Opposition’s policies costed. By gee..that’s a sneaky tactic..offering to have policies costed.
Recently, Peter Martin posted an update on the Coalition Budget policy ‘costings’.
http://www.petermartin.com.au/2011/05/coalitions-auditors-still-under.html
Thursday, May 12, 2011
Coalition’s “auditors” still under investigation
Ahead of tonight’s Budget in Reply speech the Institute of Chartered Accountants has revealed that the two Perth accountants who advised Tony Abbott on the $50 billion of savings he put forward in the last election remain under investigation.
Geoff Kidd and Cyrus Patell of WHK Horwath signed a statement endorsing the Coalition’s costings released two days before the 2010 election despite promising the Coalition in a separate letter to make no inquires about “the reasonableness of otherwise of the assumptions used”.
A later examination by Treasury found up to $11 billion of errors in the costings including double-counting and purporting to spend money from funds already allocated.
Institute chief executive Graham Meyer told the Herald the pair were still under investigation eight months after the Institute received a complaint, saying the process had taken longer than expected.
The Institute began investigating Mr Kidd and Mr Patell in August after Sydney University accountancy professor Bob Walker alleged they had breached both auditing and ethical standards by allowing their work to be described as an audit when it was not…
Shadow Treasurer Hockey repeatedly described the work as an audit in the lead up to the election, saying later he had used the word “as would be understood in laymen’s terms”.
The Institute began investigating Mr Kidd and Mr Patell in August after Sydney University accountancy professor Bob Walker alleged they had breached both auditing and ethical standards by allowing their work to be described as an audit when it was not…
Shadow Treasurer Hockey repeatedly described the work as an audit in the lead up to the election, saying later he had used the word “as would be understood in laymen’s terms”.
Mr Meyer was unable to say how much longer the investigation might take saying such things depended depended on “the complexity, the availability of material, the availability of witnesses, the availability of tribunal members, a whole range of factors”.
Mr Kidd is a former Western Australian chairman of the Institute.
Pip at 6.19PM
The information I got from another link but the answer in also in your link
“TREASURY’S costings of the Coalition’s election promises have found a $7 billion hole in the opposition’s claim that its election promises and proposals would save $11.5bn over the next four years. ”
The Coalition said they would save $11.5B but treasury estimates it to be $7B less. Therefore 11.5-7 = $4.5B.
The range I saw was from $0.86B-$4.5B improvement instead of the $11.5B the Coalition claimed. Your link says from $0.5B-$4.5B improvement.
And from your link
“Treasury’s costing of the government’s promises and savings proposals suggested Labor’s economic plans would raise the underlying cash balance in 2013-14 by $106 million.”
So Labor would only improve the budget bottom line by $0.1B which they then spent to bribe Wilkie.
Min, I find it passing strange that the Coalition don’t trust Treasury officials now, but they did when Peter Costello reigned over the Budgets.
That is just as insulting as the comments here about our Prime Minister.
Still hurling insults is easier than checking facts.
Neil, I’m very sorry about your arithmetical deficits;
others more highly qualified than yourself have a very different opinion.
The Opposition is saying that they will have Tax Cuts without a Carbon Tax.
Ummm…why…
Pip Nothing wrong with my maths. You cannot read English.
Your own link says it was a $7B hole. Instead of being an $11.5B improvement Treasury said it was a $4.5B improvement.
11.5-4.5 = 7
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/09/01/3000068.htm
“But Treasury analysis given to Tony Windsor and his fellow independents Rob Oakeshott and Bob Katter shows the Coalition’s promises would only add between $860 million and $4.5 billion to the bottom line.”
Instead of being $11.5B improvement Treasury said it would be from $0.86-$4.5NB improvement.
Hence 11.5-4.5 = $7B hole
lol, nil defends digging holes
Actually Tom R, it shows how the media can fool people and you can present numbers to fool people.
The bottom line is that the Coalitions policies would improve the budget. Just not as much as they thought according to Treasury.
BUT THEY WERE STILL BETTER THAN LABORS MEASLY $0.1B IMPROVEMENT
And Neil, what precisely is Abbott going to spend the money on? Any hints or clues….
‘Just not as much as they thought ‘
You mean just not as much as they tried to weasle through to the electorate.
The fact that they tried so hard to prevent anyone seeing them doesn’t look very good, particularly in light of what was dicovered.
‘BUT THEY WERE STILL BETTER THAN LABORS’
Well, if you consider spending nothing on infrastructure to move the country forward as being better, then, yea, maybe
Personally, I prefer to improve our infrastructure while we can. Rather than sitting on our hands and wating for the forces of the market to do it. We know they won’t
‘what precisely is Abbott going to spend the money on?’
votes?
Funny that, I thought that Abbott had plenty of those..who why the bribe?
Umm, who why what????
Infrastructure monies under the Coalition will be spent on investment in new technologies.
State of the art, extremely efficient, coal fired power stations.
Very fast trains spanning the whole country.
Smart new dams to conserve water and produce hydro.
The list is long so i’ll leave it there….
Mr. Hockey has just said on QandA, that they will be able to rescind the carbon tax. His reasoning is that Labor will wake up to the fact that they have been wrong and support them, Mr. Hockey, sounded if he believes what he is saying. ha ha ha
“Infrastructure monies under the Coalition will be spent on investment in new technologies.”
Where is the money coming from?????
Neil, there is nothing wrong with my reading ability
What is obvious is the point you are avoiding; the fact that the Coalition did not have their policies costed by Treasury; the same Treasury that advised Peter Costello.
Instead they chose an accountancy firm which was co-founded by former WA Premier, Mr. Charles Court. That firm have previously done work for the WA Liberal Party.
Had they gone to Treasury they wouldn’t have ended up looking as if they had something to hide.
Not only did the Coalition fluff their Budget numbers last year, they did it again this year:-
http://www.financeminister.gov.au/media/2011/mr_582011.html
MINISTER FOR FINANCE AND DEREGULATION
Media Release
Senator the Hon Penny Wong
Minister for Finance and Deregulation
Senator the Hon Mark Arbib
Minister for Indigenous Employment and Economic Development
Minister for Sport
Minister for Social Housing and Homelessness
58/2011
17 April 2011
New Figures Show True State of Opposition Fiscal Position
Tony Abbott and his fiscal team of Joe Hockey and Andrew Robb need to come clean on the true state of their fiscal position.
Until they do, none of their fiscal posturing can be believed.
Despite their claims of fiscal responsibility, new figures released today show that if the Coalition were in Government today the budget would be in deficit in each year of the budget estimates.
As the Budget approaches, the Coalition should be upfront with Australians about their fiscal position.
They have been exposed by the Treasury and Finance Departments for a $10.6 billion black hole in their election costings, which they continue to ignore.
These election errors have been compounded through the blocking of Government saves and the announcement of a flawed alternate floods package – which double counted saves already earmarked for other spending.
The Gillard Government has a clear strategy to return to surplus by 2012-13.
As we near the 2011-12 Budget, the Coalition needs to demonstrate how they intend to meet this commitment.
“What is obvious is the point you are avoiding; the fact that the Coalition did not have their policies costed by Treasury;”
Well if they did not have their policies costed how did we find out about the alleged $7B black hole???
You cannot read English. All the answers to your questions were in the link you gave me. Liberals said they would save $11.5B. Treasury said they would only save $4.5B.
And they were submitting them until Swan leaked and the Federal Police were called in.
By the way who prepared and costed the ALP policies?? Does anyone know?? If Treasury costed the ALP policies before they were submitted for costing it would make sense that there was only a $0.1B difference between what the ALP submitted and was Treasury then costed.
Mr. Hockey on Q&A said they would start by doing away with 12,000 jobs in Canberra,
Neil, Neil, you’re tying yourself in knots.
If the Coalition had submitted their costings to Treasury for corroboration or correction in the first place which is the normal there would have been no news about stuff-ups by the Coalition………that’s the way it works.
The Coalition did not offer to make their “costings” public, the Independents did that for them and when Treasury viewed the Coalition “audit” they found the errors.
None of that needed to happen.
If they had followed the usual protocol their figures could have been put to rights at the start.
“If they had followed the usual protocol their figures could have been put to rights at the start.”
They started to submit their policies and then stopped when Swan leaked the data and the police were called in.
And I do not like getting lectured by people who support a party that has not run a budget surplus since 1989.
And you lot have just produced a $50B budget deficit and you have the hide to lecture the libs about getting the budget into surplus.
Neil, nobody is “lecturing” you. If you don’t like it here that’s not my problem..
“Swan leaked it”….you know that for a fact do you??
If you want to talk about Treasury leaks, look no further than Godwin Grech.
WorkChoices. Dead and buried. Don’t believe it.
Why is Abbott so spooked by the WorkChoices bogyman? Peter Reith
June 28, 2011
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/minchin-uses-work-choices-bogy-to-sideline-reith-20110623-1ghhh.html
Labor market reform is too important to be left in the Liberal political closet.
EVEN though I have spent many years as an activist promoting labour market reform, I promised Tony Abbott I would suspend my interest in this if I became federal president of the Liberal Party. I thought that was the best way I could support Abbott and the team and quietly encourage good policy
Just for good measure the HR Nicholls makes a reappearance.
Memo:-
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/minchin-uses-work-choices-bogy-to-sideline-reith-20110623-1ghhh.html
THE Liberal powerbroker Nick Minchin has mounted a Labor-style industrial relations scare campaign in a last-ditch bid to prevent Peter Reith from becoming the Liberal Party’s next federal president.
Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/minchin-uses-work-choices-bogy-to-sideline-reith-20110623-1ghhh.html#ixzz1QUKHtbeJ
Out of the deep freeze, HR Nicholls gets back to work on workers’ rights
http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/2773306.html
Compelled by desperation – or possibly the science of cryogenics – the HR Nicholls Society is attempting to reinject itself into the political debate. The society has drafted the services of former liberal adviser Ian Hanke to reassert “the true interests of employees”, according to a recent report in The Age. Central to those interests is winding back rights at work and dismantling Fair Work Australia for being, well, too fair.
WorkChoices. Dead and buried. Don’t believe it.
Why is Abbott so spooked by the WorkChoices bogyman? Peter Reith
June 28, 2011
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/minchin-uses-work-choices-bogy-to-sideline-reith-20110623-1ghhh.html
Labor market reform is too important to be left in the Liberal political closet.
EVEN though I have spent many years as an activist promoting labour market reform, I promised Tony Abbott I would suspend my interest in this if I became federal president of the Liberal Party. I thought that was the best way I could support Abbott and the team and quietly encourage good policy
Just for good measure the HR Nicholls makes a reappearance.
Memo:-
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/minchin-uses-work-choices-bogy-to-sideline-reith-20110623-1ghhh.html
THE Liberal powerbroker Nick Minchin has mounted a Labor-style industrial relations scare campaign in a last-ditch bid to prevent Peter Reith from becoming the Liberal Party’s next federal president.
Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/minchin-uses-work-choices-bogy-to-sideline-reith-20110623-1ghhh.html#ixzz1QUKHtbeJ
Out of the deep freeze, HR Nicholls
http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/2773306.html
Post took so long to show up I thought it wasn’t going to happen
“If you don’t like it here that’s not my problem..”
What I do not like is people telling lies. That black hole story is just a load of crap. The improvement in the budget was not as big as the Libs claimed according to Treasury (if you trust treasury).
And the media presents it like the Libs policies made the budget much worse than Labors whereas the reality is that it was better. Just not as good as the Libs claimed.
And then Penny Wong says this
“They have been exposed by the Treasury and Finance Departments for a $10.6 billion black hole in their election costings, which they continue to ignore.”
Even with the alleged $10.6B hole (the size of the hole varies depending on who is telling the story) the budget costings were still better than Labors
‘that black hole story is just a load of crap.’
So, are you now trying to claim that their costings weren’t out by BILLIONS of dollars?
‘the budget costings were still better than Labors’
Only if you fail to understand that doing nothing does in fact cost … er nothing.
Meanwhile, Labor has fixed the howard legacy of a private monopoly telecommunications industry, and moved us back to the front of the world in digital communications at the same time. Hot on hte heels of keeping the economy the envy of the developed world, in the midst of a GFC.
I can live with having the budget out slightly from the libs ‘alleged’ position if that is the result.
Black hole no Black Hole
I am not the one to be convinced, so who cares what nil thinks.
The Independents said there was a BLACK HOLE, the Independents in this Parliament matter.
Independents cared enough to keep Abbott in Opposition, end of story.
Sue, that is it precisely – the independents listened carefully to both Abbott and Gillard and decided that Labor was the party most likely to fulfill it’s promises, run a full term, most likely to work cooperatively with them, plus the NBN.
“Black hole no Black Hole”
I know you do not care about the truth. There was a difference between treasury and the Coalitions costings.
The bottom line was the Coalitions policies gave a better results, just not as good as they were claiming. So why did the independents support labor??
And I do not trust treasury. they are full of labor types.
People with degrees in accountancy are well known lefties
Extraordinary and divisive battle over the Liberal presidency, which went to Stockdale by one vote.
The cameras were on Abbott filling out his voting slip and we know he was the one who sank Reith’s ambitions.
Minchin will be the next party president after Stockdale.
Hooray!
No Min. Leftoids go into professions where they can influence people. Canberra is an ALP town. And ALP supporters are so loyal. Some put the loyality of their party before the Country.
“The bottom line was the Coalitions policies gave a better results”
Only if you take the exceptionally ignorant, narrow
-mindedview that a smaller budget deficit always means a better result.‘they are full of labor types.’
Yes, like godwin
“I know you don’t care about the truth”
Bless him, I always enjoy a little bit of “A Few good Men” for breakfast. Unfortunately when I read nil, his truth, his you people, his values I think of One Flew over the Cuckoos Nest.
Jack Nicholson he plays the devil so well.
“This effort to rewrite history conveniently overlooks the fact that Labor under the treasurer Paul Keating ran budget surpluses for four years in a row, including two that, relative to gross domestic product, where bigger than any of Costello’s nine surpluses”
According to this link that is wrong
http://www.budget.gov.au/2011-12/content/overview/html/overview_48.htm
Keating ran 3 surplus budgets out of 13 and none of the keating surplus budgets were bigger than Costello’s. Keatings largest budget surplus was 1.5% of GDP and Costello’s was 1.7% of GDP.
By the way when Costello finished off paying all the debt you retards created last time in power he started a number of infrastructure funds. One was HEEF. The idea was to spend the interest and add to the capitol over the coming years so that the income would increase.
Labor changed the name from HEEF to EIF and spent the capital stuffing future generations.
“Leftoids go into professions where they can influence people..”. Ah ha so that’s it…age 17 or 18 a person decides to study accountancy or teaching or chiropody so that one day when they’re big and grown up they enter the public service and provide false and misleading information. Lawyers on the other hand who of course have absolutely no interest in influencing people all become Liberal politicians.
Neil, here’s a question for you.
How many governments since Federation have run surpluses ?
And the reasons for the surplus or deficit?
The 2006 Boyer Lectures give an excellent account of how economies work as I suggested to you weeks ago.
Bet you didn’t read any of it.
Neil, the 10.6 billion doolar discrepancy is in this years, 2011 Coalition costings
Nil, can you spot the error :]]
Neil, debt in itself is not bad.
Do you have a home. Did you borrow to obtain that home.
What business do you know that exists without debt.
It is silly to keep throwing up Labor’s alleged debt.
Debt enables us to improve the infrastructure for our economy to move forwarded.
Debt only becomes a problem when we do not have the means to repay it..
If we do not invest in our home, business or country, we go backwards, Not to invest leads to waste.
Neil, once again you have resorted to name calling. Why are we retards if we fail to agree with you?
Maybe you should give some reflection to why so many disagree with you. Is it possible that you could be a little incorrect?
Neil, I do not consider debt, Labor or left wing to be dirty words.
It is true that I have different priories and ways of looking at things.
Is that necessary wrong?
“Is it possible that you could be a little incorrect?”
CU – a classic understatement!
CU, I was call ‘a robot’ the other day which amused me somewhat…
return of the Minbot
Last week on Foreign Correspondent there was a story on Rio de Janeiro. They did an interview with Rio’s richest man, a mining magnate, who was talking about how well Rio was doing. He was in full praise of their economy especially when compared to other nations, it was 40% of GDP.
But according to nil Australia is down the tubes with debt of less than 10%. Maybe the Libs should open their eyes and look around the world.
I knew that I could rely on you Tom
Different view of the economy.
“While the federal opposition makes plenty of political capital out of reminding the Prime Minister of her carbon tax lie last year, the rest of us are left to desperately hope Joe Hockey is lying now about the Liberal Party’s economic policy.
Here’s a quick essay question that should be easy marks for a high school economics student:
Discuss the contradiction in the following statement: “You’re facing higher interest rates over the next two years, rising prices, Australian families are doing it pretty tough and the best relief you can give them is to reduce the tax burden.” For an extra mark, explain the compatibility of fiscal policy whose stated primary aim is returning to surplus with giving income tax cuts and scrapping a resources rent tax – if you can.
Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/business/hockeynomics-101-the-fiscal-fumble-while-canberra-bumbles-20110629-1gq6x.html#ixzz1QdqTrJNx”
http://www.theage.com.au/business/hockeynomics-101-the-fiscal-fumble-while-canberra-bumbles-20110629-1gq6x.html?posted=successful#makeComment
CU, from your link the statement that I like is..
Yes I agree. Sounds like Rudd in 2007. And you lot as well.
Always made fun of Costello saying he only ran surplus budgets because of the mining boom.
Well the mining boom did not start until 2004 and the Libs saved $50B from 2004-2007.
The boom is now bigger than ever and “The Goose” has not saved a cent. Costello made it look easy. Labor gets in and finds out it is not so easy.
Neil, it is not hard to run surpluses. You just do not spend on infrastructure an d maintenance.
What you seem to ignore that surpluses in themselves are not necessary good.
It would have been criminal for Mr. Rudd not to spend during the global financial downturn.
Have you found out what a structural deficit is yet.
“It took shadow treasurer Hockey less than a minute from the first question on the ABC’s Q&A program to promise that dangerous contradiction of running fiscal policy to counter the Reserve Bank’s monetary policy and to imply the intent to get into surplus even quicker than Wayne Swan.
It is the benefit of being in opposition that you don’t really have to make sense – you can’t do any of the stuff you rave about and it’s pretty safe to assume the electorate will only remember the simplistic slogans and most outrageous claims, not the boring detail and more mundane realities……
But it provides no confidence for the nation if the alternative government proposes to repeat the same mistakes of Peter Costello’s last few budgets. What if Hockey and Abbott really were silly enough to believe they were the good old days? Sure, there were surpluses, but fiscal policy was neutral, providing no fiscal drag while showering voters with tax cuts and throwing economic management responsibilities back on the Reserve Bank. Consequently the headline variable home mortgage rate hit 9.6 per cent in 2008 before the GFC intervened and probably saved us from something worse.
While the government bumbles implementation and lets a jerking knee get in front of thinking (cattle exports just the latest example), the opposition promises damaging macro policies. Oh dear.
Even the “deficit bad, surplus good” chant is itself dangerous. As the RBA governor underlined earlier this month, the present pace of return to surplus is already taking 2 per cent off the nation’s GDP in the new financial year. Hockeynomics might have fun explaining to the retailers and “Australian families doing it tough” that he’d like to reduce economic growth further. The current rate movement towards surplus is a finely balanced thing on the assumption that the commodities and capex booms will continue as planned……….
Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/business/hockeynomics-101-the-fiscal-fumble-while-canberra-bumbles-20110629-1gq6x.html#ixzz1Qe0FTpbK
Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/business/hockeynomics-101-the-fiscal-fumble-while-canberra-bumbles-20110629-1gq6x.html#ixzz1QdyixicC
Neil, I noticed that you still cannot make a comment without name calling. There is no need to call the Treasurer a goose. it does not add to the debate, It is only your adolescent opinion.
Neil Of Sydney @ 4.11pm, this is the opinion of Michael Pascoe at The AGE, as well as many other economists, on Peter Costello’s record.
http://www.theage.com.au/business/hockeynomics-101-the-fiscal-fumble-while-canberra-bumbles-20110629-1gq6x.html
Same mistakes?
But it provides no confidence for the nation if the alternative government proposes to repeat the same mistakes of Peter Costello’s last few budgets. What if Hockey and Abbott really were silly enough to believe they were the good old days? Sure, there were surpluses, but fiscal policy was neutral, providing no fiscal drag while showering voters with tax cuts and throwing economic management responsibilities back on the Reserve Bank. Consequently the headline variable home mortgage rate hit 9.6 per cent in 2008 before the GFC intervened and probably saved us from something worse.
Michael Pascoe is an idiot.
Give me those mistakes any day. Costello saved $50B in his last three budgets. And all the fools do is make fun of him.
Now during the biggest mining boom ever, Wayne Swan cannot save a cent. Swan has spent all the proceeds of the mining boom since 2007 plus all the money in the kitty that Costello handed him plus money in various infrastructure funds that Costello started that were to be for future generations.
Why doesn’t he condemn Swan?? He has just produced a $50B deficit budget. Oh, and the drought has broken which helps Swan even more.
‘Oh, and the drought has broken which helps Swan even more.’
Go tell the Spartans
Neil, once again you resort to name calling.
Why a expert writing something you disagree with should be called an idiot I do not know.
Do you wonder why, according to your assessments there are so many idiots in the world.
Neil, you make a great noise about Mr. Costello’s so called savings. What you do not seem to understand, that is not necessary good policy.
continuation.
There is more to a good budget than how much you save. The country’s budget are not the same as a business or personal budget.
To retain your belief, you have to dump everything that occurs in Australia and the world economy. You ignore the GFC and external; conditions that have impact on budget and economy.
No one doubts the fact that Mr. Costello did make some savings. What some are questioning the importance you put on the fact.
Budgets should be in surpluses over cycles. That means there is room for deficits as well surpluses. It depends on the need of the economy at any given time.
I would imagine during your life there have been times when you saved hard. There would be other times that you spent big, even going into debt.
Sometimes it is prudent to spend to save money. It is the balance that counts.
Neil you really need to ponder why you find so many stupid and idiots.
Is Michael pascoe an expert??? Even if he is- so what.
All people do s trash Costello when the unemployment rate went from 8% to 4%from 96-2007 and he got rid of all our federal debt.
Swan said Costello wasted the mining boom. Well he saved $50B from 2004-2007. Commodity prices have now exploded and Swan cannot save a cent. Swan runs large deficits budget, raids funds that Costello started up and hunts around for people to tax so he can continue with his reckless spending.
And then Pascoe says Costello wasted the boom.
Pascoe is a fool. I am sorry I called him an idiot but Pascoe is worse than an idiot.
CU..you have the patience of a saint…
Neil, what Costello did was the good old shell and nut game – he shifted public debt to private debt.
Am still waiting for details of the National Building of the Howard years…
Min, maybe he might just take the time to look at what others are saying.
The shame is that we are not disagreeing with what he is saying.
Most are differing on the slant he puts on what he says.
What Neil needs to do, is convince us why what Mr. Costtelo did was so great.
As I recall, the drought broke late last year or early this year.
Still, there is no excuse for name calling, even if doung so reflects more on Neil than on who he is abusing.
CU..one can live in hope…
If I was Neil’s high school English teacher I would be setting him Clear Thinking excercises. Calling someone ‘a fool’ does not make it a fact – provide your evidence please Mr. Neil.
Reminds me of the old days on Tim Dunlop’s blog..Tim used to say benignly “Can you provide a link for that”.
“Am still waiting for details of the National Building of the Howard years…”
What did Hawke/Keating build??
Also usually when the Conservatives get in, the place is in a mess, so it takes years to get back on track.
But what did keating build other than debt and unemployment???
Clear thinking excercise Neil. And as you know I trained as a teacher…Ed/Psych to be precise.
Firstly – never answer a question with a question.
Second – an unsubstantiated conclusion.
Third – a question based on yet an another unsubstantiated conclusion.
And all rounded off with emotive language. What I used to get the kids to do was to highlight in yellow marker pen the emotive language – things such as “the place is a mess”.
“Firstly – never answer a question with a question.”
Why not?? You seem to be requiring something of Howard you do not expect of the previous ALP govt.
But Howard did build The Ghan. It was the biggest infrastructure project for 50 years. I think it has become a white elephant but it was a big project.
For infrastructure Howard introduced AUSLINK.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AusLink
“AusLink is an Australian Government land transport funding program, established in June 2004 and administered by the Department of Transport and Regional Services.”
Contrary to popular opinion Howard spent a lot of money on Roads and Rail.
In 2008 Rudd changed the name.
Yes, the Ghan was one of Mr. Howard’s back of an envelope brain storms before an election. Another was the Mersey Hospital. I am glad the Ghan was built, but it was never going to be profitable,
Maybe we can have a line from the east coast join in somewhere about the Alice. May make more sense.
I do not think it was the biggest project for 50 years.
There has been massive road building Australia wide that would out spend it. There have also been many dams built, especially in the north.
What else did Mr. Howard build.
I know he let a lot of infrastructure run down.
Neil.. re “never answer a question with a question” and “why not”. Because it’s basic English language…is why not.
Because if you were in a debating team you would get shot down in flames for making a basic error..answering a question with a question.
Answering a question with a question is not answering the original question.
Howard did sweet BA (my opinion), as you said the Ghan is a white elephant. If you could do the time warp with all that money that Howard had, what could he have done with it.
Well I do not agree. You are expecting something of Howard you did not get from Hawke/keating for some reason
“I do not think it was the biggest project for 50 years.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ghan
“Connection to Darwin
Construction of Alice Springs–Darwin line was believed to be the largest civil engineering project in the 50 years[16] since the creation of the Snowy Mountains Scheme ( built 1949-1974 ), the largest in Australia’s history.[17] Line construction began in July 2001, with the first passenger train reaching Darwin on February 4, 2004, after 126 years of planning and waiting[18] and at a cost of A$1.3 billion.[19]”
And you should read up on Auslink. he spent billions on Infrastructure.
It also doesn’t help if you come in and are handed the largest govt debt in Australian history.
The Libs are forever cleaning up the mess you people leave.
A recent history of the Ghan ….
Join the nuclear industry dots !!!
http://globalclimatechangeaction.org/AusUSA_NSP
by Dr. Alison Broinowski
(Published with permission from the Author for not-for-profit public awareness purposes)
“In late June and early July, just as the Howard Government was dispatching the army to Aboriginal communities to deal with sexual abuse, the U.S. military was involved for two weeks in northern Australia in the biggest ever joint exercise, Talisman Sabre.
Most Australians saw no connection.
Military training areas, uranium mines, sites for future nuclear waste dumps and now Aboriginal land seized by the Commonwealth are dots across the Australian map.
Several of them are connected by the Adelaide-Darwin railway. Having been many times promised, the $1.3 billion link from Alice Springs to Darwin was surprisingly found viable in 1999. By January, 2004, the train was running. The only tenderer, according to research at University of Technology Sydney, was the FreightLink consortium led by Halliburton (then headed by US vice-president Dick Cheney), with state, territory and federal contributions.
Excellent research as always Pip. Howard did minimal and we know this. Most decide to do something as legacy, Howard is one of those people who could not imagine the future beyond the next election and so everything he ever did was aimed towards..just the next election. I think that the MSM has been programmed to think along those lines due to the Howard years and cannot yet imagine how people might actually want to do something for the benefit of the future.
Howards greatest legacy is was his ablility to politicise everything he touched, he only just stopped short of having posters of himself adorning the streets.
Megalomania is Howards legacy
Augustus..did he stop short there? I’m certain that Migs still has some mouse pads or was it hand embroidered doilies??
Australian nuclear energy supporters hold firm
http://www.theage.com.au/national/australian-nuclear-energy-supporters-hold-firm-20110319-1c1fv.html
http://www.theage.com.au/national/australian-nuclear-energy-supporters-hold-firm-20110319-1c1fv.html
AUSTRALIA’S supporters of nuclear energy are sticking to their view that it does have a place in this country, despite the reactor crisis in Japan.
Nuclear advocates include businessmen Hugh Morgan and Ron Walker; entrepreneur Dick Smith; former prime minister John Howard; deputy Liberal leader Julie Bishop; West Australian Premier Colin Barnett; union leader Paul Howes; and former ALP president Warren Mundine.
All believe nuclear power is inevitable as the world seeks to reduce its reliance on fossil fuels. Others say that despite the unfolding crisis in Fukushima, nuclear power has a strong safety record overall.
Pip from your link..
”Just because a 747 goes down doesn’t mean you stop flying.”
Well yes it could mean just that if the 747 is unsafe..
“Howard did minimal and we know this.”
Well that is your opinion. I still cannot work out why my question is not valid.
Hawke/Keating were in power for 13 years. What legacy did they leave other than creating the largest debt in Australian history?? Thirty months of double digit unemployment, 18% home loan interest rates. Flogging off Qantas, Commonwealth bank, CSR and who knows what else and using the money obtained from these sales for general revenue rather than paying off debt. Overseeing the great state of Victoria almost going bankrupt. Deregulation of the banking industry leading to so much trouble.
Another thing Howard/Costello created was APRA. This stopped our banks going down the subprime route.
I do not understand you people. If Keating was not thrown out in 1996 we would have gone bankrupt. And that is one of Howards achievements. We would have hit the GFC with govt debt at who knows what instead of having no govt debt in 2007 and unemployment would have been at least 8% because Labor has no track record of reducing unemployment.
And Howard was beaten by television newsreader….
Yep. So true. Nothing you ever say will make me understand the results of the 2007 election.
Another Howard achievement was the independence of East Timor. There is no way labor would have sent any troops.
And I still do not understand why howard has to build great infrastructure while Hawke/Keating do not have to do anything.
And the winner of the budgie/bumper sticker comp is Bilko: “Nohope Norewards NOopportunity”
Nohoper could catch on for Tony. He’s leading us to nowhereland backwards.
“I do not understand you people. If Keating was not thrown out in 1996 we would have gone bankrupt. And that is one of Howards achievements. We would have hit the GFC with govt debt at who knows what instead of having no govt debt in 2007 and unemployment would have been at least 8% because Labor has no track record of reducing unemployment.”
Neil once again this is your opinion. Where is the evidence.
Unless I am mistaken, Mr, Howard was in for about 12 years. In the time he would have had to do a few things.
Mr. Keating bought the country through bad times, that were world wide. At the time he was defeated, things were turning around.
Government do what they have to.
If we we are to give credit, it has to be to Mr. Whitlam. In power for less than three years and two electrons. Many of the changes he made exist to this day.
He was unlucky to come to power after many years of boom time. He was faced with an Opposition similar to today’s. One that opposed and talked the economy down. He change Australia probably more than any other PM.
Mr. Menzies, during his 18 years, in spite of the post war boom period did not bring any change. Some see his reign as wasted years. Mr. Menzies contribution as far as I am concerned, was to leave a weakened Liberal party for many years.
“Mr. Keating bought the country through bad times, that were world wide.”
You know CU, that is the big lie that keating has told us. It was not the recession we had to have. It looks like these recessions are cyclical. keatings worldwide recession was very mild and lasted only 8 months. But we had 30 months of double digit unemployment.
A Howard/Costello legacy was the creation of APRA
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Prudential_Regulation_Authority
“APRA oversees banks, credit unions, building societies, friendly societies, general insurance and reinsurance companies, life insurance and most members of the superannuation industry. It was established on 1 July 1998.”
This organisation stopped our banks going down the subprime route.
Neil, @ 10.16pm,you don’t think that Howard’s freeing of East Timor had anything to do with what is under the Timor sea ??
I agree Neil, Costello saved us from the worst effects of the GFC.
As much as I admire Keating in some respects, Costello is undoubtedly the best Treasurer of the two.
What reform will Mr. Costello be remembered for?
‘What reform will Mr. Costello be remembered for?’
The hammock in the Treasurers office
Well you can start with APRA. After Hawke/keating deregulated the banking industry leading to all sorts of trouble Costello did some re-regulation. We dodged the GFC bullet because of Costello.
http://www.apra.gov.au/media-releases/98a_01.cfm
Tuesday, 17 March 1998
No. 98a.01
For Immediate Release
As part of its drive to make Australia a leading business centre in the Asia Pacific region the Federal Government today announced the implementation of its new system of financial regulation.
This makes Australia a world leader with best practice financial sector regulation.
The Treasurer announced the establishment of a new agency, the Australian Prudential Regulation Authority and key appointments to that Authority.
He also announced the establishment of a new market regulator and consumer protection body, the Australian Securities and Investments Commission and senior appointments to the Commission.
A little history.
“When the ALP was returned to Government in March 1983, Mr Keating became Treasurer, a position he held until 1991.
This role saw Mr Keating implement far-reaching economic reforms, including the progressive deregulation of the financial sector, the float of the Australian dollar, extensive tax reform and the dismantling of many protectionist barriers. He was responsible for deregulating the airline and telecommunications industries and for establishing a national framework for power.
Mr Keating became Prime Minister in December 1991 and led the ALP to an historic fifth term of Government in March 1993. As Prime Minister he continued his progressive reform program which included the establishment of a National Training Authority, a national superannuation scheme to redress low national savings and labour market and training reforms which addressed Australia’s long-term unemployment problems.
Other key achievements of the Keating Government included the review of the Sex Discrimination Act, the historic Mabo legislation which recognised the land rights of Australia’s indigenous people and the introduction of legislation ensuring protection of endangered species.
Mr Keating raised proposals for constitutional reform to make Australia a Republic and took an active role in the establishment of APEC, the Asia Pacific Economic Cooperation forum. He also developed strong bilateral links with Australia’s neighbours, especially Indonesia.
Following the defeat of the ALP in March 1996, Mr Keating resigned from Parliament.”
http://www.australianhistory.org/paul-keating
“This role saw Mr Keating implement far-reaching economic reforms, including the progressive deregulation of the financial sector, ”
Yes, and look at the trouble deregulation gave us. If it wasn’t for Costello our banks would have gone down the sub-prime route.
“and labour market and training reforms which addressed Australia’s long-term unemployment problems.”
Unemployment was at 8.3% when Keating lost office. FAILED
“He also developed strong bilateral links with Australia’s neighbours, especially Indonesia.”
You mean with his mate, the corrupt dictator.
Liberal history as told by Mr. Swan.
The truth is that both sides of politics attempt to do what is correct while in power.
It is stupid to continually say all that Labor does is bad and the Coalition are genius.
What we can say about Mr. Keating. that he operated in good and bad times. The same is true for Mr. Howard, his time as treasurer was nothing to write home about.
Is not it time we started judging people for what they do, not what side of politics they are on or worse, that we just do not like them.
“THE federal Treasurer, Wayne Swan, set aside party politics last night to pay tribute to his Coalition predecessor Peter Costello.
Speaking to the central bankers gathered to commemorate the Reserve Bank’s 50th birthday, he said Peter Costello and his prime minister, John Howard, had carried on the economic reforms of Labor’s Paul Keating and Bob Hawke – reforms which he said had begun when Mr Howard was treasurer in Malcolm Fraser’s government of the early 1980s.
His words stand in contrast to those of the Prime Minister, Kevin Rudd, who last year described the Howard decade as ”indolent, perhaps not always opposing the great transformation reforms engineered by Labor during its 13 years in office but barely adding to that reform agenda”.
Advertisement: Story continues below
Last night Mr Swan credited the Coalition with helping create a ”most remarkable run” in economic success. ”For those who may not know, who have somehow escaped being told several times already, we are now in the 19th year of uninterrupted economic expansion in Australia.
”Later this year we will begin the 20th year,” he told guests who included Mr Hawke, Mr Howard, Mr Keating and Mr Costello.
”This long run of prosperity … follows more than a quarter century of economic difficulty for Australians. The expansion of the world economy played a part, particularly the strength of the Asian regional economy.
”But decisions made in Canberra played a role too. I think of financial market deregulation, some of which began when John Howard was treasurer, but which accelerated when Bob Hawke was prime minister and Paul Keating was treasurer.
”We think of the big tariff cuts of 1988 and 1991 which helped increase our competitiveness – again decisions made by Bob and Paul and the Hawke cabinet as a whole, decisions which would have been more difficult if they had not been supported by the then opposition. We honour Bob and Paul tonight for these great contributions to the foundations of our current prosperity.
”We think of the continuation of financial sector reforms carried out by Peter Costello and John Howard when they were in office, in particular the prudential regulation that safeguarded our banking system during the global financial crisis. We honour John and Peter for that.”
http://www.businessday.com.au/business/swan-pays-tribute-to-costello-and-howard-for-economic-reforms-20100208-nnc7.html
Cu @ 12.58pm, thanks for the link
Neil, memo:- Boyer Lectures 2006. ABC
Neil, you do not have to be nasty, calling people names to present an argument.
Mr. Keating also alleged that he cleaned up the mess Mr. Howard left behind.
The truth is that reform of Australia’s economy has occured over a number of years.
One of the reason that Mr. Keating was detested was for many of the risks he took in reforming the economy, bringing it into the 21st century. Many are frighten of change, especially when they lose their comforted blankets.
I know the Australia of today is a much nicer, stronger and exciting place than it was in the 1950′s.
(On Timor-Leste, gas-pumpings, and expected indirect returns to a Howard Government’s coffers, I’m inclined to suspect that Keating’s desiccated coconut appellation remains somewhat apt, even if name-calling is somewhat impolitic, these days.)
Metatron..that is truly an ‘orrible reminiscence..the good old Johh Howard family garage…
“Neil, you do not have to be nasty, calling people names to present an argument. ”
But Keatings mate was a corrupt dictator. I assume that is what you are talking about.
You people rave about keating but he never got to see any success when he was in power. Only the ALP could win an election after 30 months of double digit unemployment.
Neil..and your proof that Keating’s mate ‘was a corrupt dictator’ is….
Some specifics please.
Sorry, Neil you are hopeless.
What you are doing is defending your own prejudices.
What you say has little to do with facts or the worth of any politician.
I wonder what makes you so bitter and unforgiving?
I could say that Mr. Howard was a dictator. What would that prove. It would only be my opinion. If I said that Mr. Howard’s contribution to school infrastructure left our children housed in modern, up to date schools, I would be lying.
“But Keatings mate was a corrupt dictator.”
I am a little confused re this statement. Ws Keating corrupt or was his “mate”. Where is the evidence. Saying something just does make it true.
No Neil, I was talking about the allege debt that Mr. Howard as Treasurer hid.
CU mentioned this “He also developed strong bilateral links with Australia’s neighbours, especially Indonesia.”
I am not sure if Keatings links to Indonesia were to our advantage nor his friendship with the President of Indonesia.
They always say the Hawke/Keating govt was a reforming govt but how come these reforms did not work too well when they were in power???
Did these reforms stop us from having 30 months of double digit unemployment?? Keating was still producing large budget deficits years after the (small) recession was over. Unemployment was stuck at 8%. Our debt was increasing. They may have looked competent but the results suggest otherwise.
Neil, there was an international recession in the early 1990′s.
Source, the Boyer Lectures, 2006, ABC
Neil, there was an international recession in the early 1990′s.
Source, the Boyer Lectures, 2006, ABC
http://www.abc.net.au/rn/boyerlectures/index/date2006.htm#
The 2006 Boyer lectures, delivered by Ian Macfarlane AC, are about how we have struggled to find a means of ensuring a stable growth path for the economy. We thought we had it, we lost it disastrously, we half-regained it, then we fully regained it. But is it permanent, or is there a new set of challenges waiting to trap us?
Governor of the Reserve Bank of Australia from 1996 to September 2006, Ian Macfarlane has been closely involved with the development of Australia’s monetary policy. He has taken a central role in international economic and monetary affairs as a member of the Financial Stability Forum and as part of the Group of 20 (G-20). He was inaugural chairman of the Asian Consultative Council of the Bank for International Settlements and in 2002 he was voted Central Banker of the Year by Euromoney magazine.
I am afraid that Neil has as hatred of Labor and the Greens, that prevents him from taking on board any facts that interfere with his beliefs.
It is a shame that he cannot see that neither side is perfect. Neither side has all the answers.
It is a shame that he has to ditch so much, as well as demonising anything or one that does not fit in with his beliefs.
Cu, it’s too difficult trying to have a sensible discussion with Neil, because ‘sensible and civilized’ is not his game.
He definitely has a closed mind.
As someone said, maybe PM Gillard has not done anything wrong.
The problem is that many have decided they do not like her. If that is the case, I feel sorry for Australia, that we have reach the stage were doing the right thing does not count.
Do personalities count more than ability?
Cu, not just personalities, but gender as well.
Abbott has been using dog-whistle adjectives with abandon for months now, all of them an indication that he, a man, could do much better…..
CU, I honestly don’t think it would matter who lead the Labor Party the MSM would treat that person exactly the same…simply due to the fact that the Murdoch media want a Liberal conservative government installed.
“Neil, there was an international recession in the early 1990′s.”
Yep, but it wasn’t that bad. Some recent recessions
July 1981 – November 1982: 14 months
July 1990 – March 1991: 8 months
March 2001 – November 2001: 8 months
December 2007 – June 2009: 18 months[
Early 1990′s was not that bad overseas but a nightmare here. The early 1980′s was bad as was the recent GFC.
Keatings recession was a mickey mouse recession. He has tricked everyone into believing it was bad worldwide.
Min @ 7.19pm, “the Murdoch media want a Liberal conservative government installed”. Ain’t that the truth !!
Not just Murdoch, but the alliance of big business lining up to support Reith’s plot for an IR think tank within the Institute of Public Affairs.
That’s no think tank, that’s my lobbyist
http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/2779170.html
Researcher at the Institute of Public Affairs, Chris Berg, drew my attention to a tweet by Simon Banks from Simon’s official Hawker Britton (lobbying/PR firm) twitter account:
“More proof that Think Tanks are Lobbyists: and my article on why they should disclose their funding.”
It is about the plan to create an industrial relations think tank in the existing Melbourne-based think tank the Institute of Public Affairs. Support for the new think tank is being provided by those who would benefit the most from a dismantling of the existing Fair Work industrial relations policy:
“The [SMH] has learned the former mining executive, Hugh Morgan, has also been a key driver of the process, as has Michael Chaney, a former president of the Business Council of Australia and currently the chairman of Woodside Petroleum. Both have been recruiting executive support.”
Neil,
Keatings recession was a mickey mouse recession. He has tricked everyone into believing it was bad worldwide.
Was that quote from a reliable source such as the former RBA Governor ?
Or did it come from your imagination ?
I believe that Mr. Abbott has the same thought process as Neil. That is the scientist and economist are wrong if they do not agree with him.
Neil shares something else with Mr. Abbott, that both are negative people.
Neil arguments have reach the level of stupidity and it is a waste of time to reason with him. His mind is so closed, that he cannot recognise when you agree with him.
CU, I look fondly back at the time when Big Kim Beasley was leader of the opposition…there was a man who worked for the benefit of the country and not just for self-promotion.
Mr. Abbott is attempting to relive 1972-75. The problem is that neither he or his party have anyone with the ability to pull off a coup.
Mr. Abbott ignores the fact that Labor has learnt something since then.
Mr. Abbott is now grabbing at straws but it appears that he is not going to give up without a dirty fight.
Mr. Hockey prediction of some “event” does worry me a little. Mr. Abbott does not believe in Queensberry rules.
CU, I missed that one about Hockey and the “event”..what happened there?
Mr. Hockey on QandA said that he did not believe that the government would go full term. He mumbled something about a likely event happening. He also said he believed that if they gained power. Labor would realise their error and support them rescinding the carbon pricing mechanism.
I wonder if it is wishful thinking or whether they believe in fairies too.
CU, that sounds kinda creepy…an event…
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